Obama and Wright…

Atlanta-based columnist Ron Hart on Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright:

I am no stranger to what is said in a black church, which, since revealed by the Rev. Wright, can shock and amaze most whites. It is the same feeling of disbelief that blacks and whites grappled with when O.J. Simpson was acquitted in his trial in Los Angeles.

The Rev. Wright is simply ripping the scab off race relations, yet to be reckoned with by political leaders. Politicians pander to race for their own benefit, but they don't intend on getting past it because it is an effective tool. Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools.

The media continue their fascination with Obama, but this new religious stumble toward Obama's coronation clearly troubles them. Politicians bring religion into politics at their own peril. Yet somehow the media will spin it for Obama, and probably tie it to their belief that Obama was born in a manger.

Whole thing here.

Comments

[Episiarch]

I must devote my time to inventing a device that harnesses the pointless idiotic energy expended on this issue.

[Elemenope]

The Rev. Wright is simply ripping the scab off race relations, yet to be reckoned with by political leaders.

I really don't get how this is so hard to understand.

And then I remember that for most white people, race really isn't a part of their *daily* experience. The benefits of being white these days are invisible to the beneficiaries.

It is almost as if white people subconsciously endorse the racialist theory that race is impolite to talk about and for blacks to do so just shows them to be an inherently cranky people. The pretzels in that logic are staggering.

[Elemenope]

I must devote my time to inventing a device that harnesses the pointless idiotic energy expended on this issue.

We shall call it a *newspaper*. And we shall be forever wealthy!

[joe]

Politicians pander to race for their own benefit, but they don't intend on getting past it because it is an effective tool. Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools.

When you see someone engaging in "reasoning" like this, run very fast in the other direction. It's completely meaningless.

Republicans have no intention of reducing terrorism, because without it, they can't run on it.

Cold Warriors didn't really want to defeat the Soviet Union, because opposing the Soviet Union is good politics.

Libertarians don't really want to shrink the government, because then they'd have no political program.

etc. etc. No light here, just heat.

[Episiarch]

Whaddya mean we, white man?

[Elemenope]

Whaddya mean we, white man?

You, the idea. Me, the name. It is unstoppable.

You wouldn't happen to be Nikola Tesla's relative, do you? You just don't understand our American humor.

[Episiarch]

Serbian humor is hard, like science.

[Guy Montag]

LOL, the ight Rev. Wright is still Ridin' Dirty* on the good reputation of a sitting US Senator.

*Has replaced "Git'er dun!" as #1 on my favorite phrases of the 12st century list.

[R C Dean]

When you see someone engaging in "reasoning" like this, run very fast in the other direction. It's completely meaningless.

There's a lot of truth to this. Most people who claim to want to solve this problem or that are largely sincere, even the politicians.

I would point out, however, that when someone's career and status are tied to a particular problem, they have a tendency to redefine the problem and engage in endless mission creep, so that the problem is never solved, and they can keep their jobs, self-regard, etc.

The anti-smokers and MADD are a prime example of this, but its also happened in the civil rights movement, with the rise of reparations, the morphing of equal opportunity into equal outcomes, etc.

[joe]

That's a much better point, RC.

But I don't think the civil rights movement is a very good example. What you're calling "equal outcomes," and the idea of reparations were parts of the civil rights movement from the beginning. Martin Luther King organized the first affirmative action, er, action.

A better example might be the feminist movement, who really have discovered smaller and smaller causes as they racked up victories in the big fights.

[ed]

race and class envy

Well put. That's exactly how and why there are Democrats.

[robc]

Am I the only person not seeing a headline on this story?

[Elemenope]

as #1 on my favorite phrases of the 12st century list.

Other great phrases from the 12th Century:

potuit, decuit, ergo fecit.

AAAAIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEAH!

(Popular among Popes) I did not have sexual relations with....what do you mean, I'm French?!

God is good; let's make us some beer.

[Edward]

Libertarians of Ron Paul's ilk have milked the race issue for all it's worth and look where it got them.

[swillfredo pareto]

for most white people, race really isn't a part of their *daily* experience.

You're right, it isn't part of my daily experience, in either direction. I don't get mistreated because of my race, and I don't mistreat others because of theirs. So you'll understand if I say that I am over all of this nonsense.

These pretzels are making me thirsty!

[Episiarch]

Edward, you were on a roll with ilk and milk but you forgot to get bilk and silk in there.

[robc]

Hey, the headline is there now. So, what happened?

[Edward]

Episiarch,

After the revealtions of the shameless way so-called paleolibertarians exploited racism to raise money and make converts, don't you think it's a little odd for a libertarian blog to be attacking Democrats for exploiting race? You guys are good at keeping the blinkers on, I guess.

[Guy Montag]

Elemenope,

as #1 on my favorite phrases of the 12st century list.

Now I have a favorite typo of the 21st century 🙂

[Guy Montag]

After the revealtions of the shameless way so-called paleolibertarians exploited racism to raise money and make converts . . .

Have examples? I kinda missed tha history of the Ls.

If Sen./Gen. Goldwater is one of them then I will be glad to dismiss your notion without comment.

[Elemenope]

You're right, it isn't part of my daily experience, in either direction. I don't get mistreated because of my race, and I don't mistreat others because of theirs. So you'll understand if I say that I am over all of this nonsense.

Since you haven't killed people in Darfur, and have never seen anyone in Darfur being killed, there is no problem in Darfur.

Got it. Thank you for proving my apparently too-subtle point.

[P Brooks]

Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools.

But what about all their terrific plans to facilitate our quest for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

[joe]

You're right, it isn't part of my daily experience, in either direction. I don't get mistreated because of my race, and I don't mistreat others because of theirs. So you'll understand if I say that I am over all of this nonsense.

Things not part of swillfredo's daily experience: forced agricultural collectivization, Palestinian suicide bombing, the inheretance tax, Sunni/Shiite violence...I guess those aren't really problems, either.

The fact that it is possible for you to ignore a problem doesn't not mean it is not a problem.

[Jorgen]

"After the revealtions of the shameless way so-called paleolibertarians exploited racism to raise money and make converts, don't you think it's a little odd for a libertarian blog to be attacking Democrats for exploiting race? You guys are good at keeping the blinkers on, I guess."

Yeah, because reason never said a word when the newsletter thing came out. They're real hypocrites.

[Russ 2000]

A better example might be the feminist movement, who really have discovered smaller and smaller causes as they racked up victories in the big fights.

The civil rights movement fits RC's analogy much better because, like anti-smoking and MADD, the participants can constantly go back and forth on 2 issues of the topic. When one issue is at a stalemate, just bring the other issue; one can always go on the offensive.

For example, is anti-smoking an individual health issue or a public health issue? Is MADD harping about safety or about health? Is the civil rights movement about race or about class? The beauty of those 2-issue movements is that one can always avoid discussion on one of the issues when the hypocrisy is eventually discovered and immediately bring up the other issue. The feminist movement never had a second issue to jump on to perpetuate the movement.

[Guy Montag]

Elemenope,

Since you haven't killed people in Darfur, and have never seen anyone in Darfur being killed, there is no problem in Darfur.

I think he was going more for the "I was standing right there and that hysterical reporter is full of crap" effect.

Got anything on those so-called paleolibertarians exploiting racism yet?

[Elemenope]

Is the civil rights movement about race or about class?

And here I was thinking it was about "civil rights".

I think he was going more for the "I was standing right there and that hysterical reporter is full of crap" effect.

I guess it's my turn to be confused. Huh?

[Lawrence]

I'm still tryin' to figure out what Wright said that is any worse than the dangerous nonesense spouted on the right by their "pastors" and religious leaders.

Could someone fill me in?

Of course Wright is "nuts", but come on....Ashcroft anointed himself with oil ala king david when he was made attorney general.

[ChicagoTom]

Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools.

Without hate the gays/foreigners/scary brown people and "TERRA and FEAR" the GOP really have no campaign tools.

[Skoal]

Darfur has a problem for sure. But it's not my problem.

[joe]

Ashcroft anointed himself with oil ala king david when he was made attorney general.

To be a little more accurate, his father annointed him. With Crisco. Ewwwwww

[ChicagoTom]

I'm still tryin' to figure out what Wright said that is any worse than the dangerous nonesense spouted on the right by their "pastors" and religious leaders.

He said things that made white people uncomfortable. That's a cardinal sin in the political and media world.

Look...it's ok to hate the gay people or the immigrants. Those people are real america. But don't you dare talk about race or class differences and the institutions that promote these differences. Then you are a fucking kook.

No one wants to hear that shit. Too many people want to convince the rest of us that America is past those problems.

Of course Wright is "nuts", but come on....Ashcroft anointed himself with oil ala king david when he was made attorney general.

And the Reverend Moon had a fucking coronation ceremony that declared him the supreme leader or something in a federal building with many congress people in attendance. Yet no one batted an eye about it

[R C Dean]

What you're calling "equal outcomes," and the idea of reparations were parts of the civil rights movement from the beginning.

I'm sure they were, but I think the schwerpunkt of the civil rights movement through Brown was equal opportunity/equality before the law. Once this battle was largely won in the early/mid '60s, the focus shifted and mission creep set in.

[NAL]

Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools.

Without hate the gays/foreigners/scary brown people and "TERRA and FEAR" the GOP really have no campaign tools.

Both the above statements are partially true.

[swillfredo pareto]

Since you haven't killed people in Darfur, and have never seen anyone in Darfur being killed, there is no problem in Darfur.

Got it.

Apparently you don't Got it.

Things not part of swillfredo's daily experience: forced agricultural collectivization, Palestinian suicide bombing, the inheretance tax, Sunni/Shiite violence...I guess those aren't really problems, either.

joe's on the right track, with a few more remedial reading classes he'll understand. These things may or may not be problems, but none of them are my problems. Oh, and you missed the mark on the inheritance tax. Both of you need to get your smug meters calibrated.

[Jammer]

Of course Wright is "nuts", but come on....Ashcroft anointed himself with oil ala king david when he was made attorney general.

When I was in college, there was a practice of, upon receiving your senior ring, of taking it down to the local watering hole, dropping in a pitcher of beer, and drinking said pitcher. Silly and harmless, unless you tried to chug said pitcher.

So even a guy like Ashcroft can get caught up in the moment. IIRC, it was someone else's idea and he went along. It was pretty low-key.

Anyway, he's a bit of a musician, right? Those guys are always a bit...off.

[Elemenope]

Both of you need to get your smug meters calibrated.

You are aware that you live on Earth, right?

With other people?

Even if you are emotionally-deficient enough to consider all problems not two feet in front of your nose at all related to your life, at least the principle of enlightened self-interest should kick in at some point and acknowledge that the externalities from all these things who do in fact have to pay out the ass for, and so it is in your best interest to attempt to address them.

You are the exact analog of the "democrat factory worker in Ohio" who is shamelessly pandered to on trade because, apparently, free trade with other nations is too abstract a concept to properly grasp its benefits for you, the individual.

I may be smug and an asshole, but at least I'm aware that acting like a retarded ostrich is a foolish way to walk through life.

[joe]

RC Dean,

but I think the schwerpunkt of the civil rights movement through Brown was equal opportunity/equality before the law

Actually, no. The ruling in Brown makes it clear that the unequal protection wasn't just that the schools (the service directly provided by the government) were unequal - in fact, the justices specifically made the point that even facially-equally segregated schools were a violation of equal protection. Their reasoning here was that the segregation of schools caused segregation and inequality in society, through the preservation and extension of separate, unequal social and economic spheres, that the students in those schools were brought into through the segregation of schools.

It's still an issue of unequal opportunity, but they identified that inequality as going beyond the government actions themselves, into the inequality that exists in society.

[Elemenope]

Oh, and you missed the mark on the inheritance tax.

Your parents are fabulously wealthy? That makes the rest of your comments all the more hilarious.

[joe]

Nicely done, Elemenope.

[P Brooks]

I suspect some of you will be delighted by this.

"We heard a huge explosion and when we ran out of our house we saw a ball of smoke and flames coming out of the house where one of the leaders of al-Shabab Aden Hashi Ayro was staying," said local resident Nur Geele.

Another resident, Nur Farah, said, "the bodies were beyond recognition, some them cut into pieces, and those wounded have been severely burnt."

[Peter K.]

"Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools. "

Sometimes it's true. However when I hear or read this sort of thing. I just think of Republicans as the annoying kiss-ass, brown-nosers. Overly ambitious, climb-over-people-to-get-ahead types. Flatter the rich, and they'll reward you. Sell-outs in other words.

[swillfredo pareto]

at least the principle of enlightened self-interest should kick in at some point and acknowledge that the externalities from all these things who do in fact have to pay out the ass for

Tell me more about the externalities of the problems of Darfur, the Palestinians and Sunni/Shiite violence that I am experiencing. Are you suggesting that I am for my money being spent in Africa and the mid-East against my wishes? What are you suggesting I do about racism that you know I am not already doing?

Your parents are fabulously wealthy? That makes the rest of your comments all the more hilarious.

Your ability to draw conclusions is extremely deficient, it must be part of your profound self-awareness. Actually I am planning on becoming incredibly wealthy by selling arms to both sides in Darfur, defective tractors to agricultural collectives and pork to the Sunnis and Shiites. I would like to be able to leave it all to my 2.3 children without your permission.

[Cesar]

Obama is finished now. If not in the fight for the nomination, than in the general.

His poll numbers have gone down the shitter in the last week t the point where his lead in NC is single digits now, and Clinton has opened up a big lead in Indiana.

In the general election polls its very clear Clinton is the stronger candidate. Looks like the fairy tale is over.

[Cesar]

Actually, theres still a good chance Hillary may get the nod now. The Dems would give it to her if they knew what was good for them (which they usually don't). Obama is seriously damaged goods and a weaker candidate than even McCain at this point.

[Elemenope]

I would like to be able to leave it all to my 2.3 children without your permission.

Your children did not earn the money, and you will be dead and hence have no rights. The metaphysics of death and taxes is a real bitch, isn't it?

And if you can't figure out what externalities regional instabilities costs you, then you are fucking hopeless.

What are you suggesting I do about racism that you know I am not already doing?

You already pretty much claimed that you don't believe in racism, so I'll go ahead and infer your *doing nothing* about it is a little deficient.

Actually I am planning on becoming incredibly wealthy...

If you become wealthy enough to be affected by the Inheritance Tax, especially with your profound understanding of externalities and lateral costs of doing business, I will be shocked and impressed.

[Guy Montag]

Actually, theres still a good chance Hillary may get the nod now. The Dems would give it to her if they knew what was good for them (which they usually don't).

Should make for the best convention night coverage since the DNC Chicago, 1968.

[Cesar]

Probably will be.

Leave it to the Democrats to fuck up a year they should have had in the bag.

[Guy Montag]

Your children did not earn the money, and you will be dead and hence have no rights. The metaphysics of death and taxes is a real bitch, isn't it?

Wow, just wow.

It is his stuff to give to whomever he wants, not yours to take. Maybe others did not "earn" it in your eyes, but they sure as hell have more right to it than you.

[jp]

African-Americans are pissed off. I get that. Most white people have an easier time than most African-Americans. I get that too.

What I don't get is why anyone who is concerned about race relations would defend someone who is doing a great job of keeping an African-American candidate from being nominated.

[Elemenope]

Obama is finished now. If not in the fight for the nomination, than in the general.

If Rev. Wright's snippets can be played on loop 24/7, I'm pretty sure that McCain's "gook" comment is equally vulnerable.

And Hillary's unfavorables among independents are stratospheric. Since those are the votes the election turns on, it would be deeply stupid to run to her as savior.

The American people's attention span surely will not sustain Wright one way or another to November. Most have already forgotten about Ayer.

[Elemenope]

What I don't get is why anyone who is concerned about race relations would defend someone who is doing a great job of keeping an African-American candidate from being nominated.

Because it is emphatically not Wright's job to be Obama's water-carrier. To assume that all black people must bury their differences and concerns to unite behind "the black guy in the race" is problematic at best.

[Cesar]

Elemenope the media is in love with McCain and REALLY has it out for Obama right now. Whats more, he needs it to go away by next Tuesday or else theres a bloody convention battle. Hes tanking in the primaries, he may even lose NC at this point.

With a bloody convention battle, Wright will be played in loop over and over and over again.

[Guy Montag]

Cesar,

The media was wanting to have Senator Obama's babies a couple of weeks ago, even the female members.

[joe]

Obama has been finished more times that Muqtada al Sadr, Cesar. You've written his obit a dozen times in the past four months.

The RCP average - as opposed to any individual poll one can pluck - shows Obama and Hillary both tied with McCain. Obama actually has a larger lead.

Gallup daily tracker has them both tied with him as well.

[Cesar]

Guy that hasn't been the case since before Texas and Ohio. They've always loved McCain, though, its part of the reason he got the Republican nomination.

They even like CLINTON better than Obama now, how they had it out for since 1991 or so.

[joe]

Interesting issues poll highlighted on Morning Joe today:

43% of Americans think McCain's connection to George Bush is a serious concern.

Which is about 10 points higher than those who think that Obama's connection to Wright is a serious concern.

In fact, more people - 36% to 31%, IIRC - say "Obama is out of touch" is a serious concern than say "Obama's connection to Reverent Wright" is a serious concern.

[Cesar]

You're wrong on the RCP average, Joe.

Clinton is ahead +2.9 of McCain with a strong showing in the most recent polls.

Obamais, tied on average, with McCain beating him in the most recent polls. Go check again.

His RCP primary numbers right now are horrible, too. Only a single digit lead in NC in two polls, with Clinton slightly ahead in one? Thats awful for him and he doesn't have much time to make it up, especially since the topic over the weekend is likely to still be Rev. Wright.

[joe]

What the media loves, most of all, is building up candidates, then tearing them down, then building them back up when they hit bottom, work into a lather, rinse, repeat.

The fact that the media's treatment of Obama is so different than it was two months ago suggests to me that this is the normal cycle repeating itself.

[jp]

What I don't get is why anyone who is concerned about race relations would defend someone who is doing a great job of keeping an African-American candidate from being nominated.

Because it is emphatically not Wright's job to be Obama's water-carrier. To assume that all black people must bury their differences and concerns to unite behind "the black guy in the race" is problematic at best.

For the average Jane/Joe, that reasoning is fine. But Wright claims to be fired up about racism. Is it more important to him to not shut his yap for 6 months than for the U.S. to have (hopefully) its first non-white president?

[Cesar]

JP Wright doesn't want the United States to have its first white President because then it would be much harder for him to scream about how horribly racist and unfair this country is. He WANTS Obama to lose so it will confirm his warped worldview.

[Guy Montag]

All,

Remind all of your Democrat friends to make a special trip to Denver so their voices can be heard. Carry signs with the message of how they are being left out of the American Deream, how they are downtrodden and being shunned by society. Bring their favorite flags, so the world can see who the truly tolerant people are in America. Bring flags with lots of red and gold in them so they show up well on television.

Might want to bring some face shields in case the 'pigs' get rowdy and try to start a riot.

Don't let the man silence you!

[R C Dean]

Because it is emphatically not Wright's job to be Obama's water-carrier.

True, but you'd think simple human decency would keep him from engaging in a national campaign to fuck over one of his own parishioners and friends.

[The Real Bill]

The things Wright said are pretty mild compared to the shit libertarians say. This blog is far worse.

I guess that could explain the lack of success of the movement.

[joe]

Oops, you're right, Cesar, Obama is tied and Hillary is up 2.9% in today's average.

Tied. Obama is tied with McCain, after two solid months of negative press for him, while McCain has been taking a victory lap. On a level playing field, they would both beat McCain.

The superdelegates, during this period, have continued to steadily move towards Obama, and they are the only possible way Hillary can win at this point.

[Edward]

Cesar,

Are you color blind?

[Cesar]

Edward nobody in this society is "color blind" and anyone who says they are is full of shit.

[Elemenope]

But Wright claims to be fired up about racism. Is it more important to him to not shut his yap for 6 months than for the U.S. to have (hopefully) its first non-white president?

Not if, as Wright said, Obama becomes just another morally vacant policy-maker who just, for a change, happens to have dark skin. How would that serve anyone, whether white, black, or polkadotted green?

The tradition of the church is (hypothetically, hopefully, occasionally actually) a tradition of criticism of earthly, temporal authority. That tradition becomes deeply compromised when a preacher starts saying that on the mere strength of skin color, policy criticisms don't really much matter.

[joe]

He WANTS Obama to lose so it will confirm his warped worldview.

Funny, then, that he talked up Obama before this story broke.

The slapfight between Obama and Wright is immensely personal at this point.

[joe]

Elemenope,

Has Wright been making policy criticisms of Obama?

I haven't seen any.

[Cesar]

joe, having Wright talk up Obama is the best way to hurt him.

Clinton is your strongest candidate now, both nationally and in the swing states. I'm not concern trolling, I hate Clinton, I'm just telling you the painful truth.

[BakedPenguin]

Obama has been finished more times that Muqtada al Sadr, Cesar. You've written his obit a dozen times in the past four months.

Aren;t yu thinkin of Kneel? LOL@!

[joe]

joe, having Wright talk up Obama is the best way to hurt him.

I agree that's true, now. And is that what Wright is doing? He seems to be taking swipes at Obama, now. I was talking about before this mess broke, Wright was giving speeches to his parishoners about "Hillary Clinton was never called a n*gger," going on Fox to defend Obama, and for all the world working to get him elected - while Obama was running on his post-racial, can't we all just get along platform. That doesn't suggest to me that Wright is concerned about a racially-progressive candidate ruining his shtick.

Clinton is your strongest candidate now, both nationally and in the swing states. I'm not concern trolling, I hate Clinton, I'm just telling you the painful truth.

You mean like when you told me that she was going to crush him on Super Tuesday? You have a record of overestimating her electoral strength, Cesar.

Obama's poll numbers dropped immediately after the Wright story broke, and Hillary took a lead - not a tie, a lead - against him, and then he came back and took a large lead against her. I don't think there's any need to panic because he's in a down period at this particular moment.

[Cesar]

BTW Joe I'm on the record of saying I didn't think "bittergate" would hurt him all that much, and I thought the Wright thing was done after his speech. I thought Wright would shut his mouth, but apparently I was wrong.

[Elemenope]

Has Wright been making policy criticisms of Obama?

I haven't seen any.

No. What he said was *if* Obama were to be elected, and objectionable US policies were to continue under his stewardship, he'd be more than willing to criticize him regardless of his skin color.

I thought that was pretty clear from the NPC Q&A.

[Cesar]

When he dropped at that time it was a good month before the next primary. Now its a few days. BIG difference. Had the PA primary been the next Tuesday of the week the Wright story broke, he wouldn't have lost by 10 he would've lost by 25.

He doesn't have enough time to fix it this time and knock out Clinton which means a bloody intra-party fight.

[ckr]

This is the best possible time for Obama to have this come out, if it was going to happen: he already has a nearly insurmountable lead in delegates, and by the time of the general this will be old news (that I think McCain is unwilling to bring up anyway).

[joe]

I know you aren't concern trolling, Cesar.

I know you call 'em like you see 'em, and aren't just trying to put a line out there.

[joe]

Gotcha, LMNOP.

I thought you were charactizing Wright's recent shots at Obama as policy criticism.

Cesar,

When he dropped at that time it was a good month before the next primary. Now its a few days. He came back very quickly after the More Perfect Union speech, remember. On the order of a week. And he dropped a lot further back then, to 6-9 points behind Hillary nationally, as opposed to even with her.

I don't think he has to knock Hillary out to avoid a big fight. He just has to keep her from catching up. The only big fight that could happen is if she ends up in a tie or near-tie at the end of the primaries, which means kicking his ass in a big way from now until mid-June. I don't think that's going to happen.

[Guy Montag]

Any of you Lefties know if there will be a catfight ring in the parking lot of the DNC this year?

[ChicagoTom]

Today Obama picked up 5 super delegates.

3 from Illinois, One from Texas, and a BIG ONE from Indiana, ex-Clinton appointed DNC Chair from '99-'01, Joe Andrew. Joe Andrew had endorsed Hillary last November when she announced.

He is hardly done.

As for the general, although I think Obama will be fine. Now he is free to basically shit on Wright (which is what the press has been pining for from him from the beginning -- an Obama Sistah Soulja moment) and move forward. I don't think this hurts him in the general.

[joe]

When's the last time you saw any of the Republican regulars make an affirmative argument for McCain?

Or even discuss the strengths that will help him win?

Why do you think that is?

[Cesar]

Well, firstly because to them McCain is a centrist RINO. Secondly, they'd rather let the Dems do the work of destroying themselves s he wins without any arguments having to be made (hence the snark about riots in Denver).

[BakedPenguin]

Why do you think that is?

Because he's a war Democrat?

[BakedPenguin]

One irony is that the Rep primary didn't play out the way primaries usually do, and this may well work to the Republican's advantage. Typically, the candidates all play to the fringes of their party for the primary, then move to the middle for the general.

The disgust with Bush meant that the candidates who positioned themselves further to the right sounded like Bush, which turned off primary voters. They would up choosing McCain due to the lack of an acceptable alternative, and he might well be the only Republican who could win this year.

[jkp]

Honestly, Joe, I don't see any positive arguments for any of the candidates. If you fear terrorism, socialized medicine, and gun control more than the consequences of an idiotic foreign, fiscal and energy policy, then McCain's the man for you. If you like gun control and socialized medicine more than the consequences of...an idiotic foreign, fiscal, and energy policy, then HRC's the one. If you believe that it's important that our next President walk on water and don't fear the consequences of (say) gun control and an idiotic foreign and fiscal policy, then it's all Obama all the time.

Take your pick.

[Fluffy]

Everyone should continue to keep in mind that John McCain failed to get 23% of the vote in Pennsylvania, which is a closed Republican primary. Turnout was actually decent, considering the fact that the race is over for the GOP nomination, so this was not the result of low turnout.

23% of the GOP primary electorate in PA turned up in order to vote against McCain in a primary election that could not impact the outcome.

I think McCain has bigger problems than Obama. If Hillary conceded tomorrow, her people would go back to Obama with little difficulty. Huckabee conceded two months ago, and his people STILL haven't wandered back to McCain. And Paul's people never will. Ever. Every one of those Paul votes in PA is lost to McCain forever. How's he supposed to win with that math? By picking up more independent undecided voters than Obama? Please. By swamping the Democrats with high GOP turnout? That's kind of hard to do with the party identification ratio shitting the bed for the GOP. Wake up folks.

[DannyK]

Politicians pander to race for their own benefit, but they don't intend on getting past it because it is an effective tool. Without race and class envy, the Democrats really have no campaign tools.

The media continue their fascination with Obama, but this new religious stumble toward Obama's coronation clearly troubles them. Politicians bring religion into politics at their own peril.

This doesn't make any sense, even as a political diatribe. Do Republicans not engage in racial politics? Don't they inject religion into politics at least as much as Dems? I don't know what the guy is saying, and I really don't know why you linked to this.

[BakedPenguin]

Fluffy - he probably missed out on that vote because he's much more of a centrist than other Republicans. He's spent his career in Congress pursuing his "maverick" bi-partisanship. To the religious right (Huckabee voters) and libertarian minded (Paul voters), he has little to offer.

[Cesar]

I don't know how once can say with a straight face that the media is still in love with Obama. They've been dumping on him since the first week of March, even in the most liberal corners of the MSM (such as MSNBC and ABC).

[Elemenope]

They've been dumping on him since the first week of March, even in the most liberal corners of the MSM (such as MSNBC and ABC).

The pile-on in some ways has been harsher in those areas than in centrist mushy-land.

It's like everyone is busy trying to out Flag-pin each other. Then some guy points out that wearing clothes or adornment is against the US Flag Code, and everyone briefly gets together to hang *that* guy before they get back to whipping out whose pin is shinier and more colorful.

[Elemenope]

whoops, make that sentence: that wearing clothes or adornment composed of a US flag is against the US Flag Code...

[Elemenope]

Wow, just wow.

It is his stuff to give to whomever he wants, not yours to take. Maybe others did not "earn" it in your eyes, but they sure as hell have more right to it than you.

I didn't say I could take it.

I just said that he couldn't give it *as a matter of right* if he's dead, cause dead people don't have rights.

And it's not a matter of "others in my eyes did not earn it"...as it is pretty spectacularly beyond question in most cases that children of wealthy parents did *nothing* to earn the wealth they would inherit. My eyes are neither here nor there.

Who was it that said "if you're gonna tax someone, is it not fairest to tax the dead? They surely won't miss it." A paraphrase, to be sure.

[R C Dean]

I just said that he couldn't give it *as a matter of right* if he's dead, cause dead people don't have rights.

Nobody gives anything to anyone when they are dead; they give it when they are alive. That's when people make their wills. The gifts made in a will just aren't effective until someone dies.

That's why, among other things, the estate tax is actually the gift and estate tax, and includes gifts made before death.

[Elemenope]

I'm sorry, RCD, I'm arguing "ought", not "is". I was insufficiently clear on that point. I believe that the estate of a dead person should be regarded as *unowned* until it is transfered (via probate or the reading of the will), in view of the fact that the dead do not have rights of any sort and so cannot own property. I realize it is a radical and not unproblematic line of thinking.

That's why, among other things, the estate tax is actually the gift and estate tax, and includes gifts made before death.

I was not aware of that, but it makes a bit of sense; to avoid tax shelters created by stashing wealth with a trusted relative or spouse, I imagine.

[flippy gorgenik, a.k.a. giorgi]

Elemenope is not doing enough to fight racism.

[joe]

Nobody gives anything to anyone when they are dead; they give it when they are alive. That's when people make their wills. The gifts made in a will just aren't effective until someone dies.

Being in someone's will and $1.25 will buy you a Coke.

Shall we start taxing people on bonuses they won't receive for ten years, too?

Until I get the money, I haven't gotten the money.

[Elemenope]

Elemenope is not doing enough to fight racism.

[Elemenope]

A
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Quite so.

[wandering expat]

'Edward nobody in this society is "color blind" and anyone who says they are is full of shit.

Oh, and guess what. Nobody in any society is colorblind. In fact, most cultures I've lived in have more overt prejudice towards darker skin color than the U.S. does.

[joe]

Colorblindness:

A bank examiner checks a bank that approves 90% of the mortgage applications from white couples, and denies 90% of mortgage applications from black couples with similar credit profiles.

After a week of poring over the records, he reports back that the bank seems to have completely random, senseless, and arbitrary standards for reviewing mortgage applications, there seems to be no pattern to their actions, and he is completely baffled about what is going on.