Iraq

Details, Schmetails

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Some interesting exchanges from a Jewish Journal interview with John McCain:

McCain also defended his support of the controversial Rev. John Hagee, a staunchly pro-Israel evangelical who has been criticized for his anti-Catholic comments. I asked the senator how he would get pro-Israel evangelicals, who have been staunchly opposed to Israel giving up territory or compromising on the status of Jerusalem, to support any peace agreement.

"You can't jump ahead here," he said. "I know they favor a peace process. I know they favor that because of my close relations with them, and pastor John Hagee … is one of the leaders of the pro-Israel-evangelical movement in America."

I started to correct him—Hagee and other evangelicals most certainly don't support compromise on territory or Jerusalem, and McCain must know this. That's when I got my first taste of the famous McCain technique: I'll-talk-so-you-can't.

"Look," he cut me off, "I just have to tell you that we should be so grateful for the support of the evangelical movement for the state of Israel, given the influence that they have, beneficial influence that they have over millions of Americans, and then we'll worry about a peace process later on, but I know that they are committed to peace between Palestinians and Israelis as well." […]

Does he think the war has strengthened Iran in the region?

"I think that our failures for nearly four years obviously did it," the senator said. "But I believe that that is being reversed as the surge succeeds, and I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up their assistance to the Jihadists, because they don't want us to succeed in Iraq…. Osama Bin Laden has said that the central front in the battleground is Iraq, and their Palestinian brothers are next. So what are the implications to the State of Israel if they prevail on Iraq? I think they're very obvious." […]

On the domestic front, I praised the senator in his call for energy independence, but pointed out that every president since Richard Nixon has issued the same call. Why would he succeed?

"Because I believe I can inspire the American people," he said, "and I think that when the price of oil went over $100 a barrel that there was certainly a psychological barrier there."

Whole thing here; link via LA Observed. I'll be on The Charles Goyette Show on Phoenix's KFNX, 1100 on your AM dial, starting in a few minutes here at 10:05 EDT.

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  1. “Because I believe I can inspire the American people,”

    …apparently to defy the laws of thermodynamics.

  2. “Look,” he cut me off, “I just have to tell you that we should be so grateful for the support of the evangelical movement for the state of Israel, given the influence that they have…

    Yeah. The Jews just *love* being pawns in other people’s arguments. Their gratefulness is palpable.

  3. I think I’ve asked this before, but when can we expect McCain to take out a restraining order on Matt?

  4. “I think that our failures for nearly four years obviously did it,” the senator said. “But I believe that that is being reversed as the surge succeeds…

    Say what you will about McCain, but he’s managed to position himself to both support and oppose the war.

    That motherfucker…

  5. “Because I believe I can inspire the American people,”

    …apparently to defy the laws of thermodynamics.

    McCain doesn’t see the real impact of the energy situation because his vehicles run on raw, unfiltered anger…

  6. Wife: You can disagree with the evangelicals but they’re great friends of the Jews because Israel is the Holy Land.

    Hesch: You wait.

  7. There is no upper bound to the number of times McCain can proclaim his love for Hagee, but he won’t be Jeremiah Wrighted about it.

  8. McCain doesn’t see the real impact of the energy situation because his vehicles run on raw, unfiltered anger…

    McCain:

    For – Flying Cars, Space Elevators (with American flags on them), Perpetual Motion Machines

    Against – Not bombing brown people

    This platform has worked before…

  9. Stop writing mean things about Episiarch’s hero, Matt.

  10. John McCain: He’s twice the doddering old man you always thought Reagan was.

  11. The Jewish Journal? Matt, you’re offering further proof that you’re just a “neocon mouthpiece”. Or something.

  12. McCain’s larger point may not be so dumb. In the sense that “Only Nixon could go to China,” perhaps only a guy with the support of pro-Israeli evangenicals can actually talk Israel into concessions.

  13. “Rev. John Hagee, a staunchly pro-Israel evangelical who has been criticized for his anti-Catholic comments.”

    Yeah he hates Catholics and thinks that Jews are subhuman pawns for the rapture. He is a pro-Israel in that sense just as the paternalistic brand of slaveowners in the south were pro black.

  14. Oh wait, I forgot –

    Welch, don’t you realize that you’re not entitled to post criticisms of John McCain, because you once said you supported public education?

    Ba-dump-bump. [Cymbal]

  15. “Only Nixon could go to China,” perhaps only a guy with the support of pro-Israeli evangelicals can actually talk Israel into concessions.

    Yeah, except evangelicals aren’t Jews…they’re more like defective Christians with head wounds.

    So the analogy doesn’t quite match up.

  16. I just have to tell you that we should be so grateful for the support of the evangelical movement for the state of Israel, given the influence that they have, beneficial influence that they have over millions of Americans, and then we’ll worry about a peace process later on

    Actually, doesn’t anyone else besides me read this as saying, “We don’t actually need a peace process, because with the help of evangelicals our support for Israel is strong enough that we can just let Israel do whatever the fuck it wants”?

    I think the “later on” here refers to “a time period after the Israelis are allowed to brutalize the Palestinians into accepting whatever terms Israel deigns to offer, or no terms at all”.

    Kind of like the terms the Iraqis will give the US for “permanent security arrangements”.

  17. Actually, doesn’t anyone else besides me read this as saying…

    You aren’t alone. This is part of that new (old) theory of foreign policy that is based on the notion that some countries are just plain better than others, and so earn perpetual forgiveness for their bullshit.

  18. “Because I believe I can inspire the American people,

    Yes. That’s just what we’ve been lacking!

    Our problem isn’t that oil is still cheaper than the alternative, that large political and corporate players have an interest in maintaining the status quo, or that there’s a large infrastructure that favors the use of oil.

    No. What we’ve lacked is mass quantities of inspiration from our political leaders!

    As long as we all feel wonderfully inspired, our cars will run three times as long on half the gas and produce no emissions!

    John, you’re bloody brilliant!

  19. Right-wing Evangelicals are “pro-Israel” the way some fishermen are pro-nightcrawler.

  20. I like the way that when he doesn’t like where the questioning is going, he interrupts and moves the target.

    “Look, you’re wrong about a point that you weren’t really making, but is easier for me to dismiss, but while I’m monopolizing the discussion and before you actually correct me and press your real point which I can’t effectively rebut, I am going to segue this discussion to this other slightly related subject which you can’t resist pursuing instead, in your vain hope to actually get a straight answer out of me.”

  21. You’ll all be sorry when the Rapture comes and you get Left Behind! But John McCain, and Kirk Cameron, won’t be.

  22. As long as we all feel wonderfully inspired, our cars will run three times as long on half the gas and produce no emissions!

    John McCain: Hopemonger.

  23. Episiarch – Kirk Cameron will be swallowing bananas in paradise, all right…

  24. If McCain (McWar on Cocaine) thinks the influence from the evangelical movement over millions of Americans is beneficial, I would ask “Beneficial to whom”?

  25. Are you implying that Cameron is a homo? He can’t be–he’s an evangelical Christian!

  26. Epi – Alls I know is him & his pals love bananas.

  27. He can’t be–he’s an evangelical Christian!

    Defective, dude. With head wounds, I’m tellin’ ya.

  28. No, McCain won’t get Jeremiah Wrighted (huzzah for neologisms) because Wright said bad, naughty, nasty things about the USA, while Hagee reserves his vitriol for those outside our borders. Oh, and those inside our borders who are already a part of semi-disenfranchised groups.

  29. McCain is really the antichrist it wasn’t skin cancer he had removed it was the mark of the beast.

  30. there’s nothing wrong with evangelicals until they stumble into politics.

  31. Oh, and those inside our borders who are already a part of semi-disenfranchised groups.

    Like…Catholics? Granted, I live in Rhode Island, so my perception of how Catholics get along in the USA is a tad distorted, but still.

  32. and I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up their assistance to the Jihadists

    Sounding both ominous and prophetic there

  33. Right-wing Evangelicals are “pro-Israel” the way some fishermen are pro-nightcrawler.

    That comment was fucking nasty. I agree 100%.

  34. I use to listen to Rev. Hagee on the radio everyday growing up. I doubt he views himself as being anti-catholic, anti-gay, anti-muslim he just believes they’re evil & will burn in hell for all of eternity, thats all.

  35. Hagee wants a hypothetical rapture ASAP during his lifetime MUCH more than he wants anything like real peace, IMO. The real irony is that I’m called anti-semitic for calling such “support” what it is — harmful to both Israel and the USA. Sigh. Reality still isn’t hate.
    JMR

  36. and I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up their assistance to the Jihadists

    Ignoring, of course, that the Iranians are quite cozy with the Malaki government we support.

    But hey, we have inspiration! We can transform the Middle East with hope and happy thoughts!

  37. I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up their assistance to the Jihadists, because they don’t want us to succeed in Iraq

    It’s been less than five years since Bush lied about al Qaeda connections as a way to drum up support for a war with Iraq, and now McCain is telling the same lie about Iran. Will it work again?

  38. That’s when I got my first taste of the famous McCain technique: I’ll-talk-so-you-can’t.

    That’s not just a McCain technique. It’s used widely in politics.

  39. Like…Catholics? Granted, I live in Rhode Island, so my perception of how Catholics get along in the USA is a tad distorted, but still.

    Yes, I was talking about the Irish actually 🙂

  40. “I think that the Iranians are very possibly going to step up their assistance to the Jihadists”

    Well at least he didn’t say Al-Qaeda was being supported by Iran this time.

  41. It’s been less than five years since Bush lied about al Qaeda connections as a way to drum up support for a war with Iraq, and now McCain is telling the same lie about Iran. Will it work again?

    It’s not a lie this time. From the New Republic:

    the 9/11 Commission actually did find extensive ties between Al Qaeda and Iran (in that several of the hijackers passed through Iran in the months leading up to the attack, that “Iran made a concerted effort to strengthen relations with Al Qaeda after the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole,” that Iran harbored Al Qaeda members after the fall of the Taliban, etc.

    Linky: http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/04/03/grasping-at-straws.aspx

    See also: “9/11 Commission Finds Ties Between al-Qaeda and Iran” http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,664967,00.html

  42. …apparently to defy the laws of thermodynamics.

    “Have you built the world’s first perpetual motion machine?”
    “The ocean is a perpetual motion machine. Fluid Karma is a simulation of the principles you see working right here. As long as the waves continue to crash, Fluid Karma will exist.”

  43. “A perpetual motion machine is a machine designed to defy one of the laws of thermodynamics.”
    “I think for someone who writes about science…”
    “You’re just reading a bunch of stuff you read off the internet!”
    lol

  44. It’s been less than five years since Bush lied about al Qaeda connections as a way to drum up support for a war with Iraq,

    Are you sure about that timeline? The war started more than 5 years ago.

    and now McCain is telling the same lie about Iran. Will it work again?

    I think it would be a harder sell this time.

  45. It’s not a lie this time. From the New Republic:

    Abdul, do you think the US should declare war on

    Iran?
    Saudi Arabia?
    Syria?
    Yemen?
    Somalia?
    Pakistan?

  46. Abdul,

    Both of those statements – al Qaeda members “passed through” the country, and the country’s intelligence services made contact with al Qaeda members – were the heart of the “Saddam is supporting al Qaeda” charges last time.

    It’s the same story.

  47. Joe,

    So what you’re saying is that the 9/11 commission, time Magazine, and the New Republic are carrying McCain’s water because they want war with Iran?

    I think a better explanation is that Iran is willing to strengthen America’s enemies, despite niggling differences in theology. Hell, Iran has made diplomatic overtures to Venezuela, with which it has little in common except anti-Americanism and oil reserves that it can’t refine.

  48. “The ocean is a perpetual motion machine. Fluid Karma is a simulation of the principles you see working right here. As long as the waves continue to crash, Fluid Karma will exist.”

    “Did I just see one car doing another?”

    “Don’t worry, that’s the European version.”

    “Oh. OK.”

  49. Nope. What I’m actually saying, you can read in the comments above.

    I think a better explanation is that the same media organs that were hawkish and gullible last time continue to be hawkish and gullible.

    Oh, and btw, al Qaeda’s long history of blowing up Shiite mosques and slaughtering Shiite civilians in Iraq, Afghanist, and Pakistan is not, in fact, a “niggling theological detail.” Al Qaeda considers Shiite Islam to be a heresy, and the Iranian government to be their enemy. This is why the speculated Iran/al Qaeda link is even dumber than the Iraqi/al Qaeda link: though hostile towards the Saddam regime, they weren’t actively carrying out attacks against it and its supporters.

  50. Didn’t Al Qaeda pass through the US on the sept? IF that is the criteria for beign a terror state then the US qualifies as much as IRan…they lived herer, they trained here In flight schools and even on US military bases like in Pensacola Florida. Some of the terrorist were stopped at the airport and held up because they were on the terror watch list, but the CIA says “let them through they work for us”.

  51. Terrorist trained in the US. Pensacola trainer threatened with court martial to shut-up.

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/archive/10-30-01_Hopsicker-printable.pdf

  52. Abdul –
    I’m waiting for a response. I’m in the mood to unload on a neocon’s stupid ass. Please. tell me where we should go to war after the glorious Iraq victory.

  53. Please. tell me where we should go to war after the glorious Iraq victory.

    I, for one, vote Switzerland. We’ll take their chocolate, their watches, and their women, and wipe those “never been conquered” smirks right off their smarmy well-fed faces.

  54. Gabe Harris,

    Seek professional help. Self medication is obviously not working.

  55. To be fair to Abdul, he didn’t make a statement that we should invade Iran. He made a statement about evidence of al Qaeda links.

    These are not the neoconservatives you’re looking for.

  56. LMNOP,

    Swiss Miss. Mmmmm.

  57. Yo-de-lay-HOO-hah!

  58. Yes, but how are we to get past their legions of citizens armed with extremely handy pocket knives?

  59. Much more relevant than any damn thing that comes out of TNR’s editorial board.

    http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/04/al-qaeda-2-well.html

  60. You’ll all be sorry when the Rapture comes and you get Left Behind! But John McCain, and Kirk Cameron, won’t be.

    The world will be a better place afterward.

    I, for one, vote Switzerland. We’ll take their chocolate, their watches, and their women, and wipe those “never been conquered” smirks right off their smarmy well-fed faces.

    Switzerland = mountains where everyone has an assault rifle in their closet. They’ve earned the “never been conquered” smirks. I hope you’re willing to walk point.

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