Penalize Peter to Deport Pablo?

Why Congress should oppose the SAVE Act

Reasonable people can disagree about the best solution to illegal immigration. But everyone can agree that, whatever the solution, it should not compromise the right of ordinary Americans to work. Yet that's precisely what a bill sponsored by U.S. Reps. Heath Shuler, D-N.C., and Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., would do.

Read the rest of the article at The Detroit News.

Comments

[Grumpy]

Proponents in CONgress and those who think this legislation will end employment of illegals are fools.

Americans will one day realize they've closed the nets around themselves as every initiative to close the border adds more invasive and unConstitutional requirements.

Three forms of official id to prove you're a legit citizen prior to hire, no more mail or net d/l renewals, go to the dmv every 4 years, your voter reg card plus other id to vote, you've banked at the same place for 15 yrs but be prepared to show id each visit, show that official id to get into city hall, your kids school (already in place in TX), it will never end.

Winston Smith is waiting in the place with no shadows.

[lajaw]

If the Feds took care of the borders, we wouldn't have this problem. Deport, seal the borders and all will be well.

[ed]

Is there a problem at our borders that I haven't heard about?
It's the Canadians, isn't it? I knew it was just a matter of time.

[Rhywun]

seal the borders and all will be well

Does anyone stop to think that maybe the reason we already have it so well is because we've historically had relatively open borders...?

[my_two_cents]

"But if this bill becomes law, within four years every employer nationwide would be required to verify the work credentials of its entire work force, including 160 million existing workers plus 60 million new hires."

Now, let's be honest. Employers will not have to verify every single new or existing employee. You can, for the most part, tell just by looking/speaking to an employee if they are an immigrant. (cue cries of "racism") The Bill is no doubt odious, but I found the above quote to be disingenuous.

[Dave B.]

If you had read the article with the intention of understanding it, you'd realize that everyone would have to be verified against a government database, regardless of skin color or other subjective measure of legality.

[my_two_cents]

Oh, I see. I didn't understand it? Oh, how silly of me. In fact, I didn't even RFTA, I just made up that quote utilizing random letters produced by a team of monkeys with type writers. Thanks, Dave, for teaching me. Why not provide your email so I can run all my comments by you before I post?

[my_two_cents]

Oh, and by the way, you shouldn't be wasting your time posting to Reason since you obviously have a remarkable talent for divining people's intentions w/o even knowing them.

[Tbone]

I was unmoved by this article. Out of proportion fear-mongering in the opposite direction of the deport everybody, seal the borders crowd.

[GILMORE]

my_two_cents | April 2, 2008, 2:03pm | #

You can, for the most part, tell just by looking/speaking to an employee if they are an immigrant.

He's right.

Cause everyone knows Canadians *smell funny*

And no mexicans actually speak english. And no American Citizens have accents of any kind.

lajaw | April 2, 2008, 1:21pm | #

If the Feds took care of the borders, we wouldn't have this problem. Deport, seal the borders and all will be well.

And by "this problem", you mean... we have a nice liquid labor pool that needs to be destroyed post haste? And by "well", you mean we should economically devastate ourselves.

With Americans like these, who needs leprous mexicans?

[GILMORE]

lajaw | April 2, 2008, 1:21pm | #

If the Feds took care of the borders, we wouldn't have this problem. Deport, seal the borders and all will be well.

As a follow up to this incredible stupidity...

You do know the vast majority of 'illegal aliens' come in legally, filing right through our convoluted system, then just "overstay" their visa, right?

Which means your "solution" does absolutely nothing for your perceived "problem".

Unless you also want to stop all legal immigration.

[TrickyVic]

Gilmore, now days (so they say) they have the ability for a database to tell them when someone has overstayed their visa so they can pro-actively track them down. That is part of the USVISIT program. I'm sure if the person paid for the flight with a credit card, the feds could search where that credit card was used last. Technology is making hiding from the government more difficult.

[J Golden Rockwell]

Okay, now . . .there are 12 million illegal aliens in the US.

The ERROR RATE is over 12 million, meaning that for every illegal man, woman and child in the US, at least one innocent person will be thrown out of his or her job.

Figuring the number of children and housemoms, that comes to about 4 million illegal aliens who actually work, so for every accurate hit, there will be AT LEAST THREE people falsely accused and fired.

What's wrong with this picture???

The US unemployment figures are already bad enough, without adding this Bandini burrito into the mix.

[J Golden Rockwell]

my_two_cents wrote: "You can, for the most part, tell just by looking/speaking to an employee if they are an immigrant."

I'll make a $500 bet with you. We will go to a company that is one of my clients, which employs over 100 people, with 10% - 20% of the employees being immigrants. You will be allowed to pick any 10, and if more than 5 of those are immigrants, you win the money.

The company? They are a customer support call center.

[J Golden Rockwell]

GILMORE wrote: "everyone knows Canadians *smell funny*"

Yes, but with the right sauce . . .

[Romster]

"You can, for the most part, tell just by looking/speaking to an employee if they are an immigrant. (cue cries of "racism")"

I once finished an interview, and starting reviewing what ID I needed to bring to orientation before revealing I was Canadian. So, not always.

[GILMORE]

TrickyVic | April 2, 2008, 4:26pm | #

Gilmore, now days (so they say) they have the ability for a database to tell them when someone has overstayed their visa so they can pro-actively track them down. That is part of the USVISIT program. I'm sure if the person paid for the flight with a credit card, the feds could search where that credit card was used last. Technology is making hiding from the government more difficult.

And we all know how effective the government is with implementing and utilizing modern technology.

The "problem" could be "solved" by simplifying the system, making it *easier* for immigrants to work here (especially in high end sectors like medicine, technology, financial services, etc) and creating simpler temporary work visas for immigrants in lower-end sectors like agriculture etc.

What we dont need is to create fucking exploding dog tags for expired visas, and burden small businesses with some complicated 'worker approval' system.

Anyone who starts citing statistics about immigration's impact on native employment needs to stay the fuck away from crackpots on VAdare.com, and actually go to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and do some homework. I've been an economic research analyst for last 13 years, and I'm not listening to anyone who cites some bullshit point-data without looking at the nature of US employment markets and real wages from 1990 till now.

Impact on real wages has been much more to do with productivity growth over that period, & global competition in industrials and manufacturing. Immigration is essentially negligible - except for its positive impact in helping to reduce the price of food in the 90's... which we should notice is now fucked due to a) stupid immigration restriction efforts, b) the stupid biofuels subsidies, and c) rising oil prices partly due to war and bad planning. Oh and the GMO idiocy.

I once finished an interview, and starting reviewing what ID I needed to bring to orientation before revealing I was Canadian.

God forbid anyone should realize we have canadians in our midst. The horror!

[Francisco Torres]

If the Feds took care of the borders, we wouldn't have this problem. Deport, seal the borders and all will be well.

Like living in an island, right?

Only it will be a bit TOO much like living in a deserted island, if your FedGov followed your wishes.

[Spiv]

The requirement to verify an employee's eligibility to work in the U.S. has been public law since the Immigration Reform Act of 1986.

12 million illegals (about twice as many as those targeted by the 1986 law) is proof positive that the law was never enforced in any meaningful way.

So that's going to change with a new law?

I think not.

[Jim Walsh]

...and some people continue to believe Tancredo is a friend to libertarians. Amazing...

[da fac]

Oh please what a stupid illogical jump in reasoning. "Previous plan had to high an error rate so this one will too"?!??! The easiest way to seal the borders is to prevent illegals from getting jobs and the the existing ones will self deport when out of work. Bust the employers taking advantage of the illegals and us taxpayer citizens. I wont depend on the government to prove I'm legal - I'll do it myself somehow.

[JohnE]

To those deport them all people I say that sounds like a good idea. I think we should deport everyone against immigration that cannot tace their family origins back to the first indiginous people. I am sure those people weren't happy about all those people stramin ginto their country taking their land and their jobs without asking first. You can piss and moan all you want but the undisputed fact is that immigration has always brought good things to this country. A man willing to pull up stakes and move to a country where he doesn't speak the language but knows if he works hard can get a better life for himself and his children should always be welcome. If not I say we take the Statue of Liberty down. Need I remind you of the powerful and important message inscribed on it's base.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

Open borders and immigration are one the things that make this country great.

[lajaw]

Yea you are right. Immigration has brought great things to this country. Part of my family is from immigrants. Part is "native". The problems we have stem from not just "illegal" immigration, but from the welfare state that has put a portion of the work force on early retirement. Then those voids in the workforce are then filled with illegals. I am for "legal" immigration. If need be, increase the numbers to satisfy the demand, but also get the government funded early retirees back to work. Those libertarians that advocate for full open border policy are also unknowingly advocating pulling the US down to Mexico's level. Fix the welfare system first, then I'll go along with the open border crowd.

[Nike Dunk SB High]

is good