At L-o-o-o-n-g Last Sir, Have You No Sense of Humor?

Just last night I was telling someone that I couldn't imagine any scenario on God's green earth that would get me to vote for Hillary Clinton. But that was before I watched this clip of Grade A rageaholic and unfunny sports humorist Keith Olbermann, with anger more than sadness, laying into Hitlery for Geraldine Ferraro's sins. See how long you can last through his hilariously self-serious tirade; I crapped out somewhere on minute five:

Link via Wonkette. Nick Gillespie wrote last year about the many (horrifying) moods of Keith Olbermann. UPDATE: YouTube seems to be having server-squirrel issues; try this link.

Comments

[Jonathan Hohensee]

"Special comments" kind of loose their special-ness after they have been done every night. I used to like his show quite a bit-mostly for the Paul Harvey-esque ADD aspect, but after a while his ego/insecurity got the best of him and Olberman transformed into a fucking monster.

[joe]

Ah, Reason. No posts on what Ferraro said, but a post complaining about someone objecting to what Ferraro said.

Wassamatter, baby, can't you take a joke?

[JW]

Man, I didn't even make it to the 1 minute mark before I started throwing up in my mouth. And he has the stones to make fun of O'Really?

To think I used to actually like Olberman. ::shudder:: What a tool.

[John-David]

Weird, I watched the whole thing, and didn't find it that bad at all. A little too self-serious, but well said and necessary.

[JW]

Here joe, I'll give you one, even tho' it should be obvious to anyone.

Someone who's notoriety was solely from her gender and candidacy, blasting another candidate for not being a white guy?

Now THAT's funny.

[Pain]

All I know is he needs to be fired from Sunday Night Football. He's so bad he actually makes me not want to watch replays of Devin Hester because then I have to hear his ridiculously bad commentary and faux intellectual jokes.

I do not understand what his appeal is at all.

[Cracker\'s Boy]

(What Ferraro said wasn't news. Shhhhhh.)

CB

[JMR]

They should lock Keef up with Dennis Miller & have a bipartisan "ruin football" channel.
JMR

[James Kabala]

JW: Actually, Ferraro does deserve credit for one thing: in one of her follow-up she freely admitted that "if my name were Gerard Ferraro, I never would have been the vice-presidential nominee in 1984." I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone free confess to being a token before.

I made it past seven minutes of the Olbermann comment, but then I just couldn't take it anymore, so I skipped the last 2:12.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I'm with joe, here.

[ChrisO]

I thought he might finish up by saying "Marry me, Hillary. Please." Sadly, it was not to be.

I wonder if he talks to himself in the mirror like this.

[joe]

Olberman's David Duke reference was a bit extravagent.

Less David Duke than Archie Bunker.

[ChrisO]

Oh, and joe, there are plenty of places on the Internet where I'm sure you can demonstrate your full measure of piety about the Ferraro comments. This is a thread about something else.

[joe]

Wah wah wah, liberals are always picking on people for saying the truth about black folks.

Is that about it, ChrisO?

[Legate Damar]

Keith, YOU'RE the worst person in football. Every week. Except those weeks where Rae Carruth kills someone. Or Ray Lewis has a lackey kill someone for him. Or Pacman Jones goes anywhere and someone coincidentally gets shot to death.

Other than those weeks, Olbermann, it's ALWAYS you.

[Cab]

Olbermann is Ann Coulter's mirror image, just with more make-up.

Ferraro's statement was idiotic.

Hillary shouldn't ask Ferraro to step down, Hillary should step down.

There, those are my opinions for the day.

[joe]

He's too gimmicky on SNF. He'd be better off playing it a little straighter, and taking jokes as they come instead of trying to whip up a vaudville show every week.

[Episiarch]

Don't worry, Cab, I have the feeling that Spitzer is going to be an anchor around Hillary's neck that's just a little too heavy for her to keep her head above the water.

[Pain]

They should lock Keef up with Dennis Miller & have a bipartisan "ruin football" channel.
JMR

Yeah but I always felt a little sorry for Miller. I usually got the feeling during commercials he was looking over at the producers and saying "You sure you really want me here? Okay...it's your money...."

[R C Dean]

Ah, Reason. No posts on what Ferraro said, but a post complaining about someone objecting to what Ferraro said.

You wanna post about Ferraro, get your own blog.

I hate to say it, but I pretty much agree with Andrew Sullivan on this. In a nutshell, a big part of Obama's appeal lies in the possibility of a "post-racial" future and the rebranding of America that is there because of his race and upbringing.

[John]

I have to give Obama credit, his comeback to this was classic. It was something to the effect of "yeah, if you were running for President your first choice would be to be a black man whose middle name is Hussain." I am not an Obama fan but that is a great comeback.

Oberman was actually really good when he was a sportscenter anchor. But his success went right to his head and he quickly became a parody of himself. He is now insufferable even when he does football.

[Legate Damar]

Not reporting on an event, but reporting on the aftermath of said event is what used to be called "missing a news cycle" but can now be referred to as "meta."

Post-irony America. I love it! Am I being sarcastic? I don't even know any more...

[Mo]

RC,
Right, because we've never had young charismatic presidents with middling experience. But you're right it's the black thing. Look at all the young white voters that voted for Al Sharpton in the last primary.

[some guy]

Obama is black?

[some guy]

Ah, I see. Just like in Harry Potter.
"He whose race cannot be named."

[pinko]

Olberman is horrifying?!?

Well then I guess Welch must never leave his house in fear of running into far scarier bogeymen. I'm trying to conjure up anything Olbermann's ever done that remotely touches O'Reilly in terms of any nasty schoolyard bullying of his guests, and I'm coming up blank. Have I missed something? Does this guy really give libertarians the vapors? If so, you guys are bigger pussies than I thought.

[John]

So what if it is RC. A big part of McCain's appeal is that he was a POW and a war hero. You could just as plausably say "if McCain hadn't been shot down over Vietnam, he wouldn't be where he is today." Yeah, but who cares. You could say that about anything. If Einstein hadn't been so damned smart he would just been a patent clerk. Obama's success is the result of who he is and part of who he is is black just like part of who McCain is is being a war hero and part of who Hillary is is being a women. It was a stupid thing of Ferraro to say.

[Pain]

Olberman is horrifying?!?

Well then I guess Welch must never leave his house in fear of running into far scarier bogeymen. I'm trying to conjure up anything Olbermann's ever done that remotely touches O'Reilly in terms of any nasty schoolyard bullying of his guests, and I'm coming up blank. Have I missed something? Does this guy really give libertarians the vapors? If so, you guys are bigger pussies than I thought.

Just because O'Reilly's an asshat doesn't mean Olbermann isn't one too. It's not like there's a finite amount of idiocy possible at any one time.

[joe]

RC,

I don't think anyone is going to deny that there are benefits that accrue to Obama because of his family's background and his experience as a sorta-black guy, but to claim that it has been a net plus for him is ridiculous, nevermind claiming that it is the only reason he is where he is.

A white guy with his talent and message would have won this nomination a month ago.

[joe]

Whose death has Olberman called for, Cab?

Have you got one of those funhouse mirrors?

[Cab]

I don't know, what should society do to the "worst person in the world?"

[Mike Espinoza]

Personally, I find Olbermann quite funny. A king of hyperbole and patently biased, to be sure, but quite funny.

As for Ferraro's comments, she must be on drugs. All things being equal, if Barack Obama were a white woman (without the middle name of Hussein), he'd (she'd?) be cleaning Hillary's clock.

[ChrisO]

Wah wah wah, liberals are always picking on people for saying the truth about black folks.

Is that about it, ChrisO?

Uh, no. I was just pointing out that the thread is about Olbermann.

Since there hasn't been another thread on H&R about Ferraro and her silly comments, I guess there's nowhere else here for you to demonstrate your anti-racist bona fides on the matter. We were all very concerned about that.

To me, the most interesting angle of the Ferraro story is how Hillary apparently thinks she can win the presidency without any black folks voting for her. Doubtful.

[Matt Welch]

Well then I guess Welch must never leave his house in fear of running into far scarier bogeymen.

There's a difference between "horrifying" and "terrifying."

[Joe Strummer]

Olbermann and Reilly are cut from the same cloth. They're self-serious, overwrought showmen. One appeals to the right, the other to the left, so they have different styles.

[First Little Pig]

Joe,

Personally I think Obama's blackishness is exactly why he is the front runner and I have zero problem with that. I suspect that there are white guys with his talent but they could never carry the message quite the same way -- in fact an Ivy-league WASP politician, regardless of his left-leaning bone-a-fides would come across as a smarmy insincere pandering schmuck.

[joe]

Cab,

Olberman himself laughs at them. Funny, Coulter doesn't usually leave any such ambiguity about what should be done.

Ferraro's comments only make sense to someone already primed to see any successful black person as being undeserving, a token-case who took what rightfully belongs to a white person.

[Episiarch]

Hyperbolberman is a complete spazz. How anyone can watch him and not have a seizure is beyond me.

[joe]

First Little Pig,

George W. Bush is "an Ivy-League WASP politician" with a gift for gab, and he managed.

[John]

There is a reason why O'Reily and Oberman hate each other so much; because they are just the liberal and populist conservative models of the same person. Only someone who is completly unself aware could honestly think that one is better or worse than the other.

[joe]

I admire the way ChrisO can made opposition to racism sound like a character flaw.

[John]

"Ferraro's comments only make sense to someone already primed to see any successful black person as being undeserving, a token-case who took what rightfully belongs to a white person."

Pretty much yes. It is especially gauling coming from Ferraro someone whose only claim to fame really was being a token. I am so sure she would have been Mondale's running mate if she had been male. Her gender had nothing to do with it I am sure.

[ChrisO]

I admire the way ChrisO can made opposition to racism sound like a character flaw.

I admire the way joe can completely and hysterically mischaracterize a person's comments.

[Cab]

C'mon joe, Coulter attempts humor, we both know that.

Anyway, I'm not here to stick up for Coulter. I just think Olbermann is a prick.

[Brian24]

At the risk of proving myself completely un-self aware, I'd say that while Olbermann and O'Reilly are both self-serious blowhards, Olbermann is not half the bullying, idiotic jerk that O'Reilly is. I've never seen Olbermann scream at a guest or have a guest's microphone turned off.

[joe]

Mischaracterize, ChrisO? Here are the phrases you used instead of "denounce Ferraro's race-bating:"

demonstrate your full measure of piety about the Ferraro comments.

demonstrate your anti-racist bona fides on the matter

If you don't want to get called out for it, don't do it.

[John]

I think the country is up for having a black president but large sections of the Democratic Party, as evidenced by Ferraro's comments, apparently aren't.

[Cracker\'s Boy]

Oh shit... here comes another joe pissing match.

CB

[Colin]

He's utterly ridiculous, but the only thing that bothered me was when he mocked Silent Cal.

If we only had a Calvin Coolidge again.

[Flyover Country]

joe's arguing with the voices in his head again.

[joe]

John, Ferraro will be lucky to get a seat at the convention after this.

You might have noticed, it's only Limbaugh, Buchanan, and othe GOPers defending her on this.

[SugarFree]

I don't know, what should society do to the "worst person in the world?"

I think we should revive the Athenian practice of ostracism. Every year, the person who gets the most vote are banished from the country and forbidden to meddle in politics under pain of death.

Sure, it's not very libertarian but I think it might be fun.

By the way, I nominate "(Why didn't) Reason (do) (should do) an article on _________." as a drink trigger. (Or is it already a part of the "For a magazine called Reason..." rule?)

(I'm not jumping on joe, I've just noticed a lot of it lately, especially the sock puppet attack in yesterday's Balko thread.)

[mediageek]

So, after that segment, what are the odds that Keith went back to his dressing room and had himself a good cry?

[Tommy_Grand]

If you're saying: "What G.F. said is groundless, untrue, and totally false but I support her right to express an honest opinion." I can dig that. It's a legit, logical position.

If you're saying: "What G.F. said exaggerates reality. There is some modicum of truth to her assertion, but it was politically unwise to say it out loud." I can dig that too. It's a sane position. I think many Dem. pols and media agree.

But if you're saying: "The opinion GF expressed is totally immoral, insulting, unethical, improper, unacceptable, etc." I think you're a goofball. Would we say: "Any man who disagrees with or criticizes GF's comments is sexist?" Of course not.

[stephen the goldberger]

but ferraro's right...

[dhex]

So, after that segment, what are the odds that Keith went back to his dressing room and had himself a good cry?

with or without masturbating?

4-1 on the former
2-1 on the latter

[some guy]

I think the country is up for having a black president

You're not allowed to notice he's black.

[alan]

People, people, can't we get along, all of us?

Ferraro is an Mid-Atlantic, Archie Bunker kind of racist, and Olbermann is a prick. These are not mutually exclusive.

As far as Obama, his race is an advantage with many voters and a disadvantage to many more other voters, and personally, given the historical imbalance, I would prefer to live in a world where it is an advantage than the latter. Of course, being a libertarian, I'd rather it to be a non factor.

Full disclosure, I pretty much pass for white except through those special sun glasses they issue to cops.

[JW]

Tommy_G--None of the above.

I'm saying Olberman is a ginormous, self important tool who actually does obviously believe what his toadies tell him about himself ("fiercely sincere, sir") and the "furor" surrounding Ferraro, a washed up hack who's claim to fame was making the unfortunate choice of teaming up with someone who was, at best, aftertaste, was political soap opera. And badly done at that.

And, I'm saying that with a giant run-on sentence.

[Isaac Bartram]

Actually, when I first heard that Ferraro had said this (that is, after I tried to figure out how she was actually relevant) I thought how remarkably stupid it was. How can she believe this would help Hillary? (that's what she was trying to do, wasn't it?)

Then I heard her this morning. In the interview she came right out and said she realized that the only reason she ever got the veep nod was because she was a woman. I can see how that kind of thing might color one's outlook.

Frankly, if there is one refreshing thing I see in Obama's candidacy is how far beyond identity politics he's gotten.

To me, the most interesting angle of the Ferraro story is how Hillary apparently thinks she can win the presidency without any black folks voting for her. Doubtful.

Well, for the last forty years or so the Dems have seen blacks as rightfully owned by them. What are they going to do, after all, vote Republican?

Except this year I see a distinct possibility that if Hillary wins the nom a lot of blacks are just going to stay home on election day.

[joe]

stephen the goldberger | March 13, 2008, 10:54am | #

but ferraro's right...

You mean when she said this:

"I think it's more realistic for a woman than it is for an African-American," said Ms. Ferraro. "There is a certain amount of racism that exists in the United States - whether it's conscious or not it's true."

[R C Dean]

A white guy with his talent and message would have won this nomination a month ago.

Except the white guy with his talent and message is, roughly, John Edwards.

So what if it is RC.

My point, exactly. Some unquantifiable but significant part of Obama's appeal is there only because he is black. So what?

As far as Obama, his race is an advantage with many voters and a disadvantage to many more other voters,

I'm not so sure his race is a net loss to him. Certainly not in a Dem primary. In a general election? Who knows? If he handles it right, can get his stupid wife to shut up about her life of victimization as a Harvard Law School grad, and truly embody transcending race, then I think it can be a net plus.

[dr_dog]

I have never watched Olbermann before. Is his verbiage always so ostentatiously garrulous?

[Dynamist Dan]

3rd Minute

[ChrisO]

If you don't want to get called out for it, don't do it.

Those statements of mine that you quoted, joe? They were making fun of you, not stating my position on the Ferraro comments. You're just too damn easy. Since you've now basically called me a racist, let me state my position for the record:

--you're right, in one respect, in that a white guy with Obama's political talent would have cleaned Hillary's clock months ago. She's a terribly untalented politician. Race has been issue in the campaign, but Obama's not the guy who has raised it.

--Obama's blackness undoubtedly makes him stand out in a sea of glib white guys, but he has been notable for not bringing his race into the discussion. Indeed, his background (Hawaii, Singapore, Kenya) is so exotic that he is effectively the Tiger Woods of politics. The guy who can truly get beyond all the race stuff. It may be that Michelle Obama has been more willing to drag race into the campaign, but Barack has a legitimate claim to be a 'uniter not a divider'. That said, I'd never for anyone of any color/gender pushing the tired socialist nostrums that he and Hillary do.

--Hillary, in contrast, seems (from my somewhat limited viewing) to regularly highlight the fact that she has girl parts, and to put that forward as a reason to vote for her. Perhaps you could say that Ferraro (and by extension the Clinton campaign) are projecting.

--Make no mistake about it. Hillary is pursuing a 21st Century version of the Southern Strategy, though perhaps its focus on the Rust Belt requires a new name. The Deer Hunter Strategy?

[Marcvs]

As many others have said, Obama's appeal is at least in part because he affords us the opportunity to finally have a black president. What Ferraro said was not entirely inaccurate, even if it was politically stupid. I for one, would like to get past the point where mentioning that someone is black (or that it gives that person some sort of advantage/disadvantage) instantly makes you a racist.

[stephen the goldberger]

She's right that Obama would not be the current front runner for the nomination if he weren't half-black. He wouldn't pull almost 90% of the african american vote, or get them to come out in record numbers if he weren't half-black for example.

Also there are many white Obama supporters with liberal guilt who are voting for him because he's half-black. They deny it but every so often they'll let out a little clue as to their true motive. A statement like "It makes me proud of how far we've come to see Obama run and be a legimate candidate for president."

She shouldn't have said it and it was stupid and worst of all to liberals, politically incorrect. But factually correct nevertheless.

[Marcvs]

dhex, you gave me my first good laugh this morning. Thanks.

[alan]

I'm not so sure his race is a net loss to him. Certainly not in a Dem primary. In a general election?

Yep, I agree about the Dem. The general election I feel will be a different story. Though if he had Colin Powell(unfortunately, lacking General Ike's judgment)'s resume rather than the thin one in his possession, it would be a different story.

[joe]

Except the white guy with his talent and message is, roughly, John Edwards.

Edwards was good, but not anywhere close to as good as Obama. And you simply haven't been paying attention if you think they're messages are equivalent.

Those statements of mine that you quoted, joe? They were making fun of you, not stating my position on the Ferraro comments. Yes, ChrisO, and that's what I called you out for:

Once again, joe | March 13, 2008, 9:29am | #

Wah wah wah, liberals are always picking on people for saying the truth about black folks.

Is that about it, ChrisO?

I know you were making fun of me, Chris. For the horrible crime of denouncing someone for making a racist statement. Nobody's confused here.

Whoops, I spoke too soon: Since you've now basically called me a racist... Nope, but I hope you're getting a nice, warm feeling from pretending I did.

[alan]

blargh, a deletion and a copy&paste managed to screw up all three paragraphs above, no time to correct now. The gist is still present, at least.

[joe]

Marcvs,

Why don't you wish we could "get past" the point where any successful black person is assumed, by some, to be a token with no merit of his own?

You're ok with people still saying that, but want us to "get past" finding it objectionable? That's odd.

[joe]

s. the g.,

He wouldn't pull almost 90% of the african american vote, or get them to come out in record numbers if he weren't half-black for example.

Nor would he lose the white vote in Mississippi 3:1 to Hillary freaking Clinton.

[joe]

If being black is such a huge advantage to a politician running for President, why aren't Angela Davis, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Carolyn Moseley-Braun on my Presidents of the United States placemat?

[Neu Mejican]

So if Ferraro is right (she's not), Dems had to choose between showing that they were

not racist,
not sexist,
not anti-hispanic,
not anti-short-guy-with-tall-hot-wife,
not anti-crazy-old-coot

to narrow things down to the choice between showing they are not racist or showing that they are not sexist. Because showing that you are not something is what Democrats are all about. Is that about it?

Imangine the conundrum this would have posed had Condoleeza Rice been the Republican candidate.

[John]

"He wouldn't pull almost 90% of the african american vote, or get them to come out in record numbers if he weren't half-black for example."

I don't know about that. Bill Clinton sure pulled in the black vote. I think part of this is the bitter pill the Clinton's are swallowing. After being the first "black President" and the like, Bill Clinton sees black voters turn on his wife for one of their own in an act of what I am sure he and Hillary feel is rank tribalism. It has to drive them nuts.

Also, like most things Hillary does, there is a method to this madness. Obama's appeal is that he is not Jessee Jackson or Al Sharpton. He is not an "angry black candidate". What Hillary is doing is trying to bate Obama into becoming and angry black candidate.

[ChrisO]

Next, on Reason TV: "It's All About Joe!"

Not gonna do it.

[joe]

Hillary was pulling a huge chunk of the black vote before Iowa. The same order of magnitude that Obama is winning it now.

What Hillary is doing is trying to bate Obama into becoming and angry black candidate.

Hillary's campaign is good at fighting strategically, not just tactically. Think of the charge that Obama stole his "just words?" line from his own campaign manager. Clinton lost that fight - she might as well have accused him of stealing lines from his speechwriter. In a tactical sense, she lost that argument.

But those were some damn good lines, a very strong comeback to her "just words/just a speech" line of attack, and he can't use them anymore. She traded pieces for position.

[lunestadoublestrength]

Having trouble sleeping at night? Does stress keep you awake. Now, Lunesta brings you double strength Obama addition of our popular sleep aid.
One Obama tab will give you that warmed over Hubert Humphrey meets Adlai Stevenson rhetoric that will help put your mind at rest*

* does not work on liberals. May cause cult like side effects if you are of the liberal disposition.

Obama, a bore.

[joe]

Good call, ChrisO. I wish you'd made it at 9:24.

[Stretch]

You might have noticed, it's only Limbaugh, Buchanan, and othe GOPers defending her on this.

What are you talking about, Joe? NOBODY is defending her on this, at least publicly. Rush spent most of yesterday's show nailing her to the wall for this. High comedy gold coming for him, of course.

And sure, Obama is getting an overwhelming majority of the black vote. That's to be expected, but it doesn't explain how he's won quite a few landslide victories in states where blacks make up a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.

[Kolohe]

I generally like Olbermann. And I basically agree with the thesis of what he's trying to say here. However, it's at least 4 min too long, and probably about 6 min too long - thus neither funny, nor biting, nor effective.

And while Olbermann's schtick is 'left wing', it is a mistake to classify him as the opposite of O'Reily based on that. Dobbs and O'Reily are complements in that one is a left wing populist and the other is a right wing populist. Olbermann is an anti-populist (from the left) who obviously doesn't like O'Reily - and yes sees himself as the O'Reily antidote to formulate his show.

But Olbermann's central organizing principle is anti-Bush. This is both the source of the strength of the show and the reason for successful ratings. I predict his show will implode in both content and ratings as soon as the 22nd amendment kicks in, esp in the continued likelihood of an Obama presidency.

[bookworm]

"Except the white guy with his talent and message is, roughly, John Edwards."

No, John Edwards comes off as slick, whereas Obama comes off as sincere.

[Flyover Country]

Obama is just the right amount of black.

I'm not kidding. Jackson and Sharpton were seen as representing black interests more than all Democratic constituencies interests. That was threatening to white Democrats. Obama has very successfully distanced himself from that perception. Hillary Clinton tried to create that perception unsuccessfully.

[joe]

Stretch,

Pat Buchanan has been going to the matt for her on MSNBC all week. "She just told the truth." He got quite animated last night on that show that follows Olberman.

I don't know about Limbaugh, though. I shouldn't have assumed.

[Stretch]

Pat Buchanan has been going to the matt for her on MSNBC all week. "She just told the truth." He got quite animated last night on that show that follows Olberman.

Good ole Pat. There's a man who has no fear of being labeled a racist...

[Flyover Country]

joe,

You have too much time on your hands if you're following Pat Buchanan on MSNBC all week.

[joe]

Tell me about it, FC.

At least opening day is less than a month away.

[ChrisO]

Obviously airtime is not exactly a precious commodity at MSNBC, if the producers are willing give the talent gobs of time to do crap like this.

I'm another who enjoyed Olbermann on ESPN, but on MSNBC he's got every bit as much shtick going as O'Reilly does. They're both shameless airtime hogs.

Frankly, both MSNBC and Fox News need to up the babe factor and lower the angry-white-guy quotient if they want me to watch more often. Yes, I'm shallow.

[Mo]

Dude, Ramesh defended her in the WaPo.

If race is so important, why isn't the current race between Richardson and Obama?

Obama's race probably helped him with some people and hurt him with others. Saying his race helped him is as idiotic as saying JFK's Catholicism is a net positive.

[joe]

If some of Obama's appeal comes from "transcending race," wouldn't that automatically mean race was a negative for him?

You don't see John McCain getting support because he "transcends veteran status," or George Dubya because he "transcends a folksy rural bearing."

[Ammonium]

If race is so important, why isn't the current race between Richardson and Obama?

What race is Richardson?

[Richard]

Blacks vote 90% Democratic, about 80%-90% of those are voting Obama. Without their near-monolithic support, he'd have been finished months ago. But he gets to be the candidate who "transends race."

This exemplifies the old joke that in Washington, a gaffe is when somebody accidently tells the truth. Seriously, if Obama was white, there'd still be this cult built around a freshman senator from Illinois?

I don't find this particular clip horrifying, and I managed to make to it the three minute mark before I started laughing.

[Richard]

Richardson is Latino, but as Mark Steyn pointed out, the Dems have no use for a Latino named "Bill Richardson."

[joe]

Seriously, if Obama was white, there'd still be this cult built around a freshman senator from Illinois?

Yes, just with a slightly different cast of characters. Just like there was a groundswell of support for the inexperiences Senator from Massachusetts in 1960, and for the inexperienced Governor from Georgia in 1976, and for the inexperienced Governor from Arkansas in 1992.

[Richard]

There was never a cult built up around Clinton or Carter, and Kennedy didn't become a cult figure until after he was killed.

[Ammonium]

So Richardson is white. And he doesn't look or sound particularly Hispanic. Having lived in Texas, I know a lot of people who are Hispanic, but you would never know it without learning a lot about them.

In February 2004 Obama was pretty much an unknown, even in Illinois. Then the guy who was running away with the Democratic nomination was revealed to be a wife beater. What has Obama done to deserve his meteoric rise besides getting lucky?

[John]

You don't see John McCain getting support because he "transcends veteran status," or George Dubya because he "transcends a folksy rural bearing."

Joe,

If the country had a 300 year history of enslaving veterens or killing each other over rural urban relations, McCain and Bush might be popular because they transend those particular issues. Most reasonable people would love nothing better than and end to race conflict in this country and would be perfectly willing to vote for a black man to be President if they thought doing so would do it. Sadly, it won't but don't think that most people wouldn't vote for President if it would.

[Cracker\'s Boy]

joe - with respect to your comment "For the horrible crime of denouncing someone for making a racist statement."

What is it that GF said that was racist? Certainly it was politically stupid... and insensitive... but what about it was "racist"?

Since there is no way to prove, or disprove, whether Obama would, or would not, be where he is because of his color, her statement was simply her opinion. Your opinion is that Obama WOULD be where he is, even if he was white.

Does that make you a racist?

CB
(just trying to understand your mindset that says anyone who says anything about a black is a racist. Am I a racist because I noted that the exit polls in Georgia showed a near-block vote of blacks for Obama. Making that observation makes me a racist? Eh?)

[joe]

Richard,

And there isn't a cult around Obama, either.

Whats the matter, you don't remember the Place called Hope?

[joe]

Cracker's Boy,

After he's done this well in the primary contest, proven himself to be the most inspiring orator of his generation, and defeated the prohibitive favorite for the nomination - in other words, after proving himself to be a very effective campaigner - Ferraro still assumes that he has been given his frontrunner status on a silver platter just because he's black.

To look at Barack Obama's performance in this race and see nothing but a black guy getting all the breaks - you know, that preference for black politicians that has characterized presidential politics for so long NOT - demonstrates an inability to see anything BUT race.

[some guy]

a gaffe is when somebody accidently tells the truth

Obama isn't black.
Hillary isn't a woman.
Romney isn't a Mormon.
McCain isn't an angry white guy.

There. Let's keep our heads up our asses and keep pretending.
Heaven forbid someone might be offended.

[joe]

Does that make you a racist? No.

just trying to understand your mindset that says anyone who says anything about a black is a racist. No, you're not. If you were, you might have noticed that I've said a great deal about him. So have his supporters.

You are trying very, very hard NOT to understand the point, and it shows with idiotic statements like the above.

[anon]

Quoi?

[joe]

Am I a racist because I noted that the exit polls in Georgia showed a near-block vote of blacks for Obama. Making that observation makes me a racist? Eh?

No, of course not. What a silly question.

[anon]

you're a minority opinion, joe.

[joe]

I love the racist mindset in this:

Obama isn't black.
Hillary isn't a woman.
Romney isn't a Mormon.
McCain isn't an angry white guy.

There. Let's keep our heads up our asses and keep pretending.
Heaven forbid someone might be offended.

To this writer, "Obama is black" is functionally equivalent to "Obama has been handed this election merely because of his race, irrespective of his merits as a candidate."

Simply to observe that someone is black, in other words, is to impute all the rest of that baggage to him.

[Jeff S.]

Re: Olbermann v. O'Reilly--

I've watched about equal amounts of both and enjoy neither. But am I correct in perceiving that O'Reilly devotes much more time to arguing with guests who disagree with him?

[joe]

anon | March 13, 2008, 2:00pm | #

you're a minority opinion, joe.

Only in certain bubbles. Not in mainstream America.

[Richard]

No, there's no cult around Obama at all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghSJsEVf0pU

[Cracker\'s Boy]

"the most inspiring orator of his generation"

Wow. Certainly no room for discussion there.

But that aside, do you believe that ability trumps all other attibutes? That the man at the top of, say General Motors, is the absolute best in the entire world at being the top dog at GM? Or is it perhaps possible that the guy at the top may have had a little luck getting there. Perhaps there are two people on Earth equally qualified, but the top dog is the one that, I don't know, wore a red tie to his interview, and the panel liked his red tie.

I don't believe that Obama got anything given to him on a silver platter, because of his race. He's worked like a dog to be where he is. But I do believe that, all other things being equal... ALL other things being equal, Obama wouldn't be there if he was white; that the party backs him, because his color WILL attract a greater percentage of a demographic of voters than the same white guy would. And the Democrats need to win this election.

Call me a racist. I'm white, so I must be, right?

CB

[SxCx]

That's the longest cover letter I've ever heard.

[joe]

Cracker's Boy,

No, I certainly don't think that everyone is in their position purely on merit. Nor do I think that oratory is the most important consideration in picking a candidate.

Nonetheless, Obama is winning this race largely because of his ideas, and his ability to express them in a compelling way.

Call me a racist. I'm white, so I must be, right?

I'm white too, dumbass. Knock of the pity party, Captain Victim.

[Neu Mejican]

ALL other things being equal, Obama wouldn't be there if he was white

So, we have an nice demonstration of the fallacy of C?ter?s paribus thinking.

[Mo]

his color WILL attract a greater percentage of a demographic of voters than the same white guy would. And the Democrats need to win this election.

And his color will repel a greater percentage of a larger demographic than the same white guy would. Everyone focuses on the people voting for Obama because he's a (half)black guy, but ignoring the proportion that aren't voting for him because he's a black guy with a Muslim name. So, what's your point?

Obama has run a very good campaign that no one thought he would win. He's made it this far because he had a superior ground game and Hillary fucked up because her sense of entitlement blinded her to doing anything after Super Tuesday.

If Hillary had a halfway competent team and worked as hard as Obama, this campaign would be over. Instead, she had the classic dillusion of being born on third, thinking she hit a triple, while Obama was hitting singles and moving runners over with bunts and steals. This has nothing to do with Obama being black. He did a better job, start to finish, of running a presidential campaign than the competition. End of story.

[joe]

If Obama's race is such an overwhelming benefit, then why weren't any of Ferraro's defenders saying so in January?

When he was just another also-ran, nobody was claiming that his race would propel him to the nomination, but now that he's won, it's so obvious that his race is responsible?

This is nothing but looking a black man's success and proclaiming that he hasn't earned it. And, as always, it's only done after the fact.

[Neu Mejican]

So Richardson is white. And he doesn't look or sound particularly Hispanic.

If Hispanics are white, then Richardson is white.
If not, then he's not.

It all depends on whose definitions you are using...one of the core difficulties in maintaining racist attitudes is the nosology (if you will).

Bill Richardson trivia: born in Pasadena, California to Mar?a Luisa L?pez-Collada M?rquez (born 1914) and William Blaine Richardson Jr. (1891-1972).

Just before Richardson was born, his mother was sent to California, where her husband's sister lived, to give birth because, as Richardson explained, "My father had a complex about not having been born in the United States." Three of his four grandparents were Mexican citizens, and he identifies himself as Hispanic

He lived and worked in Mexico City for decades.

So, he is about as Hispanic as you can get.

[bookworm]

"Nonetheless, Obama is winning this race largely because of his ideas, and his ability to express them in a compelling way."

And also because of the Clintons' screwups.

[the fez]

Anyone who thinks Richardson doesn't look Hispanic is a bit of an idiot on the subject of ethnicity.

[bookworm]

But Obama needs to get off his ass and turn the momentum around. A new Strategic Vision poll shows Hillary leading 56 to 38 in Pennsylvania.

The poll also found that more Obama supporters would not support Hillary if she gets the nomination than Hillary supporters who would not support Obama if he gets the nomination. Hillary's dirty campaigning is causing her to lose alot of the Democrat base. There's also the assumption that if she wins the nomination, it will only be by stealing it. I believe she'll have a harder time defeating McCain than Obama would. Electoral vote analyses have also born this out.

[Paul]

Ah, Reason. No posts on what Ferraro said, but a post complaining about someone objecting to what Ferraro said.

I thought this was a thread about Olbermann? Did I miss something?

[Paul]

It all depends on whose definitions you are using...one of the core difficulties in maintaining racist attitudes is the nosology (if you will).

Right, like when Seattle PD, to avoid racial profiling, began racially profiling every stop.

[stephen the goldberger]

Well obviously Obama success isn't entirely attributable to his race. But I consider his race to be a plus for him, and I think it's helped him in this campaign. He's had a metoric rise the likes of which I've never seen before, and he managed to overtake a very strong candidate with all the right people in her corner.

I think many people's desires to have a half-black president is at least partly responsible, and since his margin is so small, I'd say its a necessary condition for his current success.

[Art-P.O.G.]

The interviewer should have asked Ferraro an inane question like, "Would you be supporting Hillary if she weren't a woman?"

[Cesar]

I saw "Mark Steyn" somewhere in this thread, and thats all I need to know this degenerated into shit at some point.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I've never been much for P.C., and I've long subscribed to the "ego trip's Big Book of Racism" school of thought; that is, everyone's racist, it's simply a matter of degrees. Ferraro's comments set off all sorts of alarms in my head.

Hillary Clinton, I think would make a fine president (although there are several ways in which I disagree with her policies). She reminds me of Jordan or Bird in that she's a great (OK, maybe just good) player, but she has a nasty competitive streak and ends up often "playing dirty." Maybe she's more like Karl Malone, but I digress. I admit that I haven't paid super-close attention to the campaign, but it seems as if the Clinton camp is playing noticeably dirtier pool than the Obama camp.

Although I don't agree with many of Obama's policies (nor McCain's), the underhanded politics the Clinton camp are using pretty much ensure that I won't vote for Clinton under any circumstances.

Full disclosure: I'm African-American and voted for Bednarik 4 years ago simply because I was disgusted at both the Republican and Democratic campaigns for prez.

Also: yes, I feel the democrats have long taken the African-American vote for granted, and now I feel extra sh*t-upon by HRC and many of her supporters. Bob Johnson sucks, by the way. Have you seen BET? There's a reason, Aaron MacGruder hates the guy. Okay, you can probably tell by all the nonsensical ramblings that I have a lot of pent-up frustration, not just with HRC but with American politics in general.

[joe]

I think that would have been an awesome question.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Here's hoping Ferraro's comments cause people to do as much soul-searching as finger-pointing.
Olbermann may have been a bit long-winded, but I think he brought up some valid points (I even saw Bill O'Reilly bring up some valid points a couple times, FWIW).

[Brian White]

to paraphrase the old ad, "I can't believe I watched the whole thing..."

Hilariously bad, idiotic to the point of lunacy. Thanks for the link, Reason!