Politics

Spitz Take No. 35: Semi-Tawdry Details, His Whoremonger Code Name, and How this All Got Found Out

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We're going to have a longer piece up about New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer later in the morning, but here's a snippets from an AP story about how the affair came to light.

The investigation into the Emperors Club VIP gathered more than 5,000 telephone calls and text messages, and more than 6,000 e-mails, along with bank records, travel and hotel records and surveillance….

Conversations were recorded about someone identified as "Client 9," including that a prostitute identified as "Kristen" should take a train from New York to Washington for a tryst on the night of Feb. 13, according to an affidavit.

A law enforcement source in Washington who spoke on condition of anonymity told The Associated Press that "Client 9" was Spitzer and that he met with "Kristen" in a Washington hotel room just two hours before Valentine's Day.

Wiretaps enabled government agents to listen as the woman later told a booking agent for the ring that she had secured $4,300 in cash from her client and that she liked him. Authorities also had statements from a confidential source and an undercover officer….

The public-corruption unit of the U.S. attorney's office got involved after the IRS looked into a complaint of a potential violation of the Bank Secrecy Act, the government's main tool against money laundering….

Investigators say the Emperors Club, which is based in Brooklyn, made more than $1 million for its operators by selling the services of women whose bodies were displayed, their faces concealed, on a Web site.

The prostitutes were advertised as costing from $1,000 to $5,500 an hour….

The business promised clients they could pay with a wire transfer that would show up on records as QAT Consulting to make it appear to be a business transaction.

"Client 9" insisted on paying in cash.

Whole story here. It's not the crime, it's the hypocrisy (though virtually no pol, even if he/she hadn't been so anti-prostitution as Spitzer, could bounce back from this story).

reason and others, including political operative Roger Stone (who has called the guy psychotic) on Spitzer's relationship with Sen. Hillary Clinton here.

reason on the Bank Secrecy Act–not a good law, whose roots are just as tawdry as this scandal!–here.

Background on Emperor of the North, the greatest train-hopping hobo movie ever made (and what a long list!), featuring Lee Marvin and Ernest Borgnine in a fight to the finish not to be missed! Will really take your mind off Client 9 counting dollar bills bedside in a D.C. hotel!

NEXT: Passing Bad Laws

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  1. As long as that $4300 wasn’t tax money, I really don’t have any issue with it. Prostitution should be legal, and this should be a matter for Spitzer to work out with his wife.

    As for the hypocrisy, that’s a reason not to vote for him, not a reason to prosecute.

    -jcr

  2. It’s also a reason to demand his resignation.

  3. As for the hypocrisy, that’s a reason not to vote for him, not a reason to prosecute.

    But the fact that he prosecuted others for doing the exact same thing is reason to prosecute him, stick him on the sex-offender registry, and inflict upon him every other legal misery he inflicted upon others.

    I also like the suggestion of the commenter on the other thread to go after him for RICO and other violations; he abused his authority by harassing other prostitution rings while leaving his alone.

    Also, one of his front teeth should be blacked out in all his official photos. Okay, that’s just me being spiteful.

  4. Nick, Nick, Nick. Must you find a way to squeeze an Ernie Borgnine reference into every single f*cking post? Grow up! Or at least devote ALL your time to watching reruns of McHale’s Navy, instead of dragging the rest of us down to your level!

  5. If you think the Bank Secrecy Law had tawdry beginnings, check out the Mann Act under which celebrity johns get prosecuted:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act

  6. Despite everyone’s feeling on the subjuect, prostitution is still illegal. Therefore, he should be charged. Pretty cut and dried.

    For those interested in more jucy details, HuffPo got a few screenshots of the Emperors Club site before they took it down. I don’t see anything worth $30k, maybe some of the guys here can help me out.

  7. …selling the services of women whose bodies were displayed, their faces concealed, on a Web site.

    LINK please!

    Nick you ought to know what’s important! It’s not the faces, don’t need to see them.

  8. The faces thing surprised me. Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like? Conversely, if a woman has an extremely pretty face, is that sufficient for you to overlook an unattractive (by whatever your standards are) body?

  9. For those interested in more juicy details, HuffPo got a few screenshots of the Emperors Club site before they took it down.

    So, you get to put your wiener in them?

  10. Jennifer – sincere answer –

    Yes, if a woman’s body is attractive enough, face doesn’t matter. Don’t get me wrong though, an attractive face is a really nice bonus.

    Perfect face and an unattractive body = plus size model.

  11. Jennifer,

    For an answer see the post above yours.

    But seriously, it’s the package that counts for me. If I were striving for the perfect match, I’d still be … that’s my private business what I’d be.

  12. Of course every man likes a pretty face. I think covering up was just a confidentiality thing, not because we don’t care.

  13. Jen, the breakdown is probably about $2k for the girl and $28k for everyone to keep quiet about it afterwards.

  14. That picture of the Spitz is perfect.

  15. FYI, the NY Post headline this morning:

    HO NO!

  16. A horrible face and a great body = fail just like a great face and horrible body = fail. At least that’s my take. It’s a package, baby–not two separate things.

    For the kind of dough he was laying down, she better have a great face, body, and skillz.

    My question is this: since a porn actress will do all sorts of crazy stuff for amounts at (I believe) $700-1000 per shoot, are they getting more than that (as in all the sex acts)? I doubt it; I’m sure the secrecy and vetting of the girls is what costs.

  17. On the larger issue, I would like to see Spitzer hit with every charge the prosecutor could dream up. I hate the “hypocrisy is the homage vice pays to virtue” BS. Hypocrisy is the glue holding quasi-religious Puritanism stuck to criminal law.

  18. What does a great face matter if you are…shall I say…looking at the back of her head?

  19. As for the hypocrisy, that’s a reason not to vote for him, not a reason to prosecute.

    No. As Jennifer said, he has ruined people for doing the same thing. He has to pay, by his own “rules”, for this. Of course, he won’t agree with that, which is why he should get fucked as much as possible.

  20. But the fact that he prosecuted others for doing the exact same thing is reason to prosecute him, stick him on the sex-offender registry, and inflict upon him every other legal misery he inflicted upon others.

    Wholeheartedly agree with this, moralizing sermons he added put the nails in his own coffin.

    Yes, if a woman’s body is attractive enough, face doesn’t matter. Don’t get me wrong though, an attractive face is a really nice bonus.

    I disagree with this. There is a minimum acceptability factor, as well as a hygiene factor. A big hairy mole on the tip of the nose is just a turnoff for me, sorry.

    Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like?

    Then again, if you’re joe, and she’s a minority…..

  21. There’s like so many layers of reasons why Spitzer should be nailed to the wall:

    1) getting busted for soliciting a prostitution ring after crowing about prosecuting prostitution rings

    2) getting busted for structuring after making a career going after white collar crime

  22. I don’t think he’ll get in much legal trouble, being the john; but at least his career is over, and not a moment too soon. That’s good enough for me. Plus, all his previous shenanigans will be scrutinized, and with any luck they’ll begin to chip away at all the corruption he brought to the office.

  23. schadenfreude \SHOD-n-froy-duh\, noun:
    A malicious satisfaction obtained from the misfortunes of others.

    Thank you Mr. Spritzer, Spitzer, for perfectly illustrating this fine word…

  24. …selling the services of women whose bodies were displayed, their faces concealed, on a Web site.

    The link I posted yesterday had upper torso shots with faces. Oooooohh right, those were the “spokes” models they had. That’s probably a completely separate business line.

    See? Eliot just wanted someone he could talk to. Someone that understands him and the demands of his job, not like his wife, who doesn’t. She just doesn’t understand the stress of crushing peoples lives and businesses into dust through egomania and an overt abuse of power, not the way Kristen does.

  25. Must you find a way to squeeze an Ernie Borgnine reference into every single f*cking post?

    Or at least for this thread, it could have been the Poseidon Adventure, where he played a cop who had gotten together with a hooker.

  26. I don’t think he’ll get in much legal trouble, being the john; but at least his career is over, and not a moment too soon. That’s good enough for me. Plus, all his previous shenanigans will be scrutinized, and with any luck they’ll begin to chip away at all the corruption he brought to the office.

    This may be just the tip of the iceberg. Who knows what digging through his finances will find?

    It would be the ultimate karmic justice if the prosecutor who files charges against Spitzer is a egomaniacal power-seeking career-advancing sociopath–just like Eliot himself.

    please please please

  27. A friend just reminded me that this was like Little Nicky come partly true.

  28. No. As Jennifer said, he has ruined people for doing the same thing. He has to pay, by his own “rules”, for this. Of course, he won’t agree with that, which is why he should get fucked as much as possible.

    Actually, judging from the look on his wife’s face, he may not get fucked for a long time.

  29. It may just be that I am an eternal pessimist, but with the precedents of Clinton, Craig, and Jefferson, I somehow see him coming through this with his career intact.

  30. Is this better than giving blow jobs at rest stops on the New Jersy turnpike?

    Or was Governor MacGreavy one of the few politicians to ever provide public service?

  31. Jennifer,

    Prefer the complete package.

    It’s not what he did–though I personally find his behavior repugnant and feel sorry for his family–but what he’s been doing that has me enjoying l’affair Spitzer. I just about got ill this morning when NPR went on and on about how popular he has been and how he’s been this symbol of justice, etc. That’s complete bull. All evildoers just happened to be high profile? All of his cases required his direct involvement in front of the cameras? The guy is scum and misused the law for his own personal gain. He’s also amazingly hypocritical, and he’s very likely financially corrupt.

    I intend to enjoy his downfall to the hilt, and I hope it is horrifying enough to dissuade some similarly minded people from behaving that way in the future. Of course, what he’s going down for and what he should’ve gone down for are two different things, unfortunately.

  32. I find that I can enjoy this whole Spitzer scandal a lot more of I get a mental picture of the governor, in flagrante delicto

  33. If you are the governor, how come you are only client 9? Shouldn’t you be client 1? And what does it take to be client 1 to 8?

    I’m thinking it’s a pentavirate of the queen, the vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds and Colonel Sanders.

    And Rimfax, leave me out of this.

  34. The way it works, in order of desirability:

    1: Nice face, hot body – perfect
    2: Ugly face, hot body, – butterface
    3: Nice face, fat body – plus sized model
    4: Ugly face, fat body – gutter pig

    3 & 4 are to be avoided except when drunk and not around people who will recognize you and mock you for goin’ hoggin’. I hope this has been an educational service.

    And no, I haven’t gotten laid in months.

  35. What’s the same about a moped and a fat chick?

    They’re both fun to ride until your friends see you on one.

    ZING

  36. Best thing I have read about this was some random blog linked by Instapundit; “prostitute linked to Elliot Spitzer resigns in disgrace for escort service.”

    Warty, I believe the technical term for number three is “Big Beautiful Woman or BBW”.

  37. The sex is irrelevant.

    The IRS was interested in Spitzer’s financial dealings. The federal investigators originally thought Spitzer was trying to hide bribes. The prostitution ring is the “victim” Spitzer’s financial indescretions not the other way around.

  38. “If you are the governor, how come you are only client 9? Shouldn’t you be client 1? And what does it take to be client 1 to 8?”

    Any guesses on who clients 1 through 8 are? My money is on Bill Clinton as Client Number 1.

  39. warty,
    Number 4, married?

  40. The other thing about this is that the ring was apparently run by Russian mobsters. Basically the governor of New York set himself up to be extorted by Russian mobsters.

  41. If No. 3 turns out to be Obama the world as we know it will surely end.

  42. Now,if only Rudy would get busted for buying a dime bag of pot.I for one do think he should be jailed.Making and enforcing laws against consensual conduct then pretending they do not apply to you!That is the height of corruption .Louis the 14th would be proud.

  43. Jennifer – yes he should get all he has coming to his hypocrit ass. As for body versus face in a woman of course both is ideal but then life usually isn’t. Just remember this guys fat chicks can lose weight, ugly ones will always be ugly.

    $4300 an hour no wonder taxes are so high in NY. Vitter got a much better rate, guess that just goes to show the merits of conservatives over liberals. Another one on the long list of hypocrits. Jimmy Swaggert could have gotten him busted for $15.

  44. John wins the thread.

    Jennifer,
    For the prices they were quoting on that website, I imagine even the most understanding of men feel they have the right to be obscenely shallow.

    Seriously, it’s not so much wrong as it is ostentatious.

  45. Episiarch … that’s pretty mean

    Jennifer, I agree.

    He should be prosecuted because he (and people like him like Guiliani) have ruined so many people for minor vice offenses.

    Many people will have difficulty obtaining jobs for my marijuana an prostitution.

    People like Spitzer and Guiliani should be burned on the same STAKE as us minions. There WEALTH SHOULD ALSO BE TAKEN AWAY !!!

    But, instead of revenge…I would like to see these people supporters of eliminating things like the REGISTRY and RICO…FOR ALL…not just the special people.

  46. Ah, so that is why Kristen actually brought the beer, for once, on Valentine’s Day.

    Doubleplus good that I neve use this handle with Emperors Club VIP. I use my real name to remain anonymous. But where the heck am I going to spend my federal tax-rebate now?

  47. Any guesses on who clients 1 through 8 are? My money is on Bill Clinton as Client Number 1.

    Well, I suspect not. He appears to stick with the GUE rule and only let the “freebies” catch him in the past.

  48. Apropos of Jennifer’s question, Janet Reno’s face on Elle MacPherson’s body would probably have me running away screaming.

    I will also mention, that many beautiful women have managed to make themselves utterly repulsive by getting plastic surgery.

    -jcr

  49. Since the ring was run by Russians, I assume the protitute in question was probably some stunnning Russian beauty, brought to this country for the purpose of being a high end call girl. Now, read the below linked press release from Spitzer after the passage of the 2007 Human Trafficing Act passed by the NY legislature and enjoy.

    http://www.ny.gov/governor/press/0516071.html

    Updating and enhancing our human-trafficking laws to adequately punish the perpetrators of these unspeakable crimes and sufficiently support victims is critically important,” said Governor Spitzer. “New York is finally joining the ranks of other states in ensuring that those who exploit innocent people and children and cause extreme suffering are subject to strict punishment under state law.”

  50. My brother in law calls the “butterface” a Bengal. Great uniform, ugly helmet.

    If client 9 works for the Russian mob who does number 2 work for?

  51. If only he had just used Craigslist:

    None of the ads below are mine. But any really hot singles near Washington DC are welcome to email me directly

    http://wonkette.com/365784/a-childrens-treasury-of-craigslist-sex-ads-related-to-politics

    A Children’s Treasury Of Craigslist Sex Ads Related To Politics
    Far weirder than furries or watersports enthusiasts are the kinksters who get off on political talk. Whether it’s a craving for superdelegates, Obama suppporters, or Barack Obama himself, Craigslist sex lunatics will tell you precisely what they want — and what documentation you’ll need in order to get into their pants. Horrifying, slutty details, after the jump.
    First up: Mid-tier Democratic Party functionaries need not apply.
    Dying to Provide Oral Service for a Superdelegate – 29
    Reply to: pers-599940339@craigslist.org
    Date: 2008-03-08, 5:37PM EST

    Are you a Democratic Superdelegate? If so, I’m looking to suck you off when, where, and how you want. I’m a good looking, fit white male professional. Normally I’m not into such shallow hookups, but the thought of providing pleasure to a man who’s going to decide our nation’s likely next president makes me so horny.

    Yes, I’ve got political preferences between the two candidates, and hey, if the topic comes up maybe we can discuss. But my mouth is going to be full so I’ll let you do most of the talking.

    Be safe and don’t get too dirty, on Craigslist or with the pols.

    Our next contributor will only accept rim jobs from qualified Obama supporters.
    yes we can – 30
    Reply to: pers-564507611@craigslist.org
    Date: 2008-02-06, 12:57AM EST

    looking for other obama supporters who want to fool around, fuck, suck, rim, play, have fun. please send stats, pic, and proof of vote for obama. i will do anything you want as long as you support obama.

    Last up: hats off to this writer, who nails the dewy-eyed cluelessness of the most devoted Barrytard.
    You: black man at Kohl Center Tuesday – w4m – 32
    Reply to: pers-572559422@craigslist.org
    Date: 2008-02-13, 6:17AM CST

    You shook my hand and smiled at me before making some sort of political speech.
    I sensed a connection. Meet for a coffee?

    Dying to Provide Oral Service for a Superdelegate [New York Craigslist]
    yes we can [Knoxville Craiglist]
    You: black man at Kohl Center Tuesday [Madison Craiglist]

  52. But the fact that he prosecuted others for doing the exact same thing is reason to prosecute him, stick him on the sex-offender registry, and inflict upon him every other legal misery he inflicted upon others.

    Gosh Jennifer, that is awfully vindictive. I’m with you 100%. Especially the sex offender registry listing. This is an sex crime. I don’t want that pervert living within 1000 yards of a school or a park or a youth center or a church or anyplace children gather.

    It’s for the children.

  53. J sub D

    Agree !

    But like i said earlier. If he becomes a supporter of eliminating the Scarlet Letter for minor offenses…and his offense is definitely minor. I would 4-give.

  54. Let’s 4-give Spitzer, Lary Craig, Marion Barry, Bernard Kerik, etc. if they agree to become SUPPORTERS of the Elimination of the Scarlet Letter for Vice and Minor Offenses.

    I can see why a 35 yo Man who Fondles an 11 yo boy in a part deserves to be on a preditor list. However, I don’t think an 18 yo getting a BJ from a 16yo should go on same list.

    Nor, do I believe a GrandMother should have her HOUSE REPO’d because her grand daughter purchased CRACK three blocks away…and used Grannies Address

    STOP THE MADNESS…STOP THE HYPOCRACY…Long live the Magna Carta

  55. Although most of us libertarians rightly don’t care about the sex or the money, I think we have every right to be pissed off about the public corruption.

    Assuming he didn’t start doing this when he became governor, this guy was doing business with a mob-controlled organization while he was the New York State Attorney General. They even let him run up a tab.

    I wonder how much of his crazy shit will start to make sense if you assume he was protecting organized crime figures. It would explain why so many of his biggest prosecutions were of legitimate businesses.

  56. Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like?

    Depends. Does she have a face to make a train take a dirt road or does the face just not stack up to a smokin’ hot bod? There comes a point where the face is tough to get past even for tonight. If the rest of the package (body + brains) is good, I can live with a butterface. If I’m just looking for tonight, butterfaces are even better because they usually have self-esteem issues that make it easier to get them into bed.

    Please note this is all hypothetical since I’m happily married and don’t do this kind of thing anymore.

  57. However, I don’t think an 18 yo getting a BJ from a 16yo should go on same list.

    The law’s the law, that is pedifilia

  58. I think Hit & Run should run about ten more posts on Spitzer. I, for one, will not complain.

    Speaking of Hit & Run posts, nothing on the mano a mano between Barry Diller and John Malone (now in Delaware Chancery Court)? The rest of the media is running the blow-by-blow pretty much on a daily basis.

  59. Janet…ur a known Troll…so go away

  60. #5, fat, ugly and a dumbass.

    oh wait, that would be me.

  61. “Assuming he didn’t start doing this when he became governor, this guy was doing business with a mob-controlled organization while he was the New York State Attorney General. They even let him run up a tab.”

    It is called human trafficing. If the media had any balls they would run a few sob stories about Russian girls brought to this country by the Russian Mob to be hookers. It would be fucking great.

  62. That’s not a bad idea. When high profile folks get busted we could give them a choice…be brought down in disgrace OR we’ll forgive them as long as they now set to work, with the same passion as before, to LEGALIZE whatever behavior for which they got busted.
    I mean, if they were doing it, it probably shouldn’t be a crime, right?

  63. Of course, when “Kristen” writes her book we should finally get to see what she looks like (if not sooner). Plus, maybe we get a little insight into what they do for that much bread.

    My prediction: she will not be $5000/hr hot, because no one is.

  64. “not be $5000/hr hot, because no one is.”

    Well, if I could overcome my aversion to paying for sex*, I could see $5K/hour as a reasonable rate for Kate Beckinsale.

    -jcr

    *Paying for it just seems like giving up all hope.

  65. My prediction: she will not be $5000/hr hot, . . .

    5k per hour doesn’t buy hot. It buys exclusivity and/or prestige.

    No doubt that luxury products are better than Walmart specials. But after a certain point, you are just paying for brand name recognition.

  66. “My prediction: she will not be $5000/hr hot, because no one is.”

    That is an interesting question; why would anyone pay $5000 an hour when you could go on Craig’s list and find any number of very hot women willing to screw for 1/10th of that price? The answer I think lies in the nature of the client and the nature of who was running the service. The problem with a $500 hooker off of Craig’s list if you are well known is that she is liable to go to the media and make some cash from you being her client. My guess is the reason why Spitzer was paying such premium rates was so that he didn’t have to worry about the hooker going public. Now, why does the $5000 an hour hooker not go public? Because the people she works for make it clear that they will put a bullet in her head if she ever does. And these are the people Spitzer was giving 10s of thousands of dollars to.

  67. So what I’m hearing is that many libertarians advocate the enforcement of evil laws if they happen to punish evil men – spite trumps principle.

    The only real crime here is the law itself, and the only thing this guy did wrong was to enthusiastically (and probably corruptly) enforce the law.

    I think whether you feel he should be prosecuted for prostitution crimes is related to whether you fully embrace the notion that, say, the first amendment is there to protect speech you don’t like.

    And it’s amazing that folks who want to nail him for his hypocrisy will abandon their beliefs against bad laws in order to prosecute him with those bad laws.

  68. “If the media had any balls they would run a few sob stories about Russian girls brought to this country by the Russian Mob to be hookers.”

    We had a case of that here in Chicago about 10 years ago involving Russian mobsters bringing in girls from Latvia. They were prosecuted under the peonage laws—i.e. they were engaged in slavery.

    “Governor Spitzer Paying Mobsters to Have Sex With Slaves” has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?

  69. If Spitzer thinks that prosecution is the proper remedy for this victimless crime among others then we must clean his conscience and prosecute. It’s for his own good, it is what Eliot would want us to do in this situation. We need to carry out his wishes. The government is stepping in to help him. He will thank us all later.

    It’s too bad because the real “crime” that has victims in this whole mess is infidelity. That hurts more people than the financial transaction he used to do so.

    It’s cheating losers like Eliot that give prostitutes a bad name.

  70. “So what I’m hearing is that many libertarians advocate the enforcement of evil laws if they happen to punish evil men – spite trumps principle.”

    I’m not advocating the prosecution of Elliot Spitzer. But since it’s going to happen anyway, I’m going to enjoy it.

  71. And it’s amazing that folks who want to nail him for his hypocrisy will abandon their beliefs against bad laws in order to prosecute him with those bad laws.

    The laws are there and aren’t going to change any time soon. So fuck Spitzer, if the laws are there and he enforced them then I want to see him taken down.

    If this case caused those laws to be repealed and he kept his job, I would cheer. But that ain’t gonna happen, so let’s enjoy his flameout while we can.

    And if him getting raked over the coals causes anyone to rethink the laws, then that’s good too.

  72. “Governor Spitzer Paying Mobsters to Have Sex With Slaves” has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?”

    Yes it does. See my post above. Spitzer was paying for something beyond just sex. He was paying for anonymity and it was provided by basically supplying him with a slave. This really isn’t just an ordinary hooker case for that reason.

  73. Andy_D,

    Yeah we should let him go so he could continue to screw people over with his addiction to power. Unfortunately evil men don’t get prosecuted or lose their job for merely being evil.

  74. “Kristin” was American, I don’t think she was anyone’s slave. I have no doubt her employers emphasized how angry they would be if she did not keep things confidential, but I don’t think this was some giant sex slave ring.

  75. Some of the news sources I’m seeing on the web are dropping the word, “american,” from the description of the torque wench in question.
    That does seem curious to my little mind.

  76. You know what else?If these businesses were legal the Russian mob would not be needed.Just like alcohol and drugs the law forces people who want this service to deal with criminals.We replaced guys like Al Capone with Bud,Coors and Miller.

  77. He was paying for anonymity and it was provided by basically supplying him with a slave.

    Your assumptions are not supported by the court documents which the NYT put online yesterday (in PDF). That is not to say that some aspect of the prostitution ring involved trafficed women. The women refenced in the court documents appear to be free agents living and working in the US.

  78. PSA – Emperor’s Club just raised their prices on the ‘fucking steamroller’ special

  79. He was paying for anonymity . . .

    So, does he get a refund now?

  80. That is not to say that some aspect of the prostitution ring involveddid not involvetrafficed women.

    Too many negatives this early in the morning.

  81. Episiarch,

    I believe the market sets the price for goods and services. If Eliot thought she was worth 5,000/hr then she was indeed worth 5,000.

  82. I stand corrected about the hooker. Nonetheless, I doubt these were the kind of people to be screwed with. I would imagine she was told that if she ever outed any of the clients she wouldn’t live long. Not sex slavery but still really nasty.

  83. He was paying for anonymity . . .Agreed !

  84. and he should get his money back

  85. The laws are there and aren’t going to change any time soon. So fuck Spitzer, if the laws are there and he enforced them then I want to see him taken down.

    If this case caused those laws to be repealed and he kept his job, I would cheer. But that ain’t gonna happen, so let’s enjoy his flameout while we can.

    I would agree but for his moralizing when he enforced things on others. Those who preach deserve what they preach in my mind. What pissed me off about Clinton was not so much he went after a chubby intern, I don’t particularly like that much meat on the grill but if someone else does, great for them. It was that under his administration, they were actively prosecuting and running out people from the military for adultery, and when he gets caught as the Commander in Briefs, he claims it’s a “private matter.” Fuck that, if it’s a private matter, quit fucking over all the service members who pay more attention to their military duties but less to their marital obligations.

  86. Follow up: My point is that people in power need to adhere to the standard they hold everyone else to, more strictly if possible.

  87. PSA – Emperor’s Club just raised their prices on the ‘fucking steamroller’ special

    Cleaveland Steamerroller?

    Rocky Mountain Steam Cleaner Roller?

    If Eliot turns out to have done any of these then maybe there is a god.

  88. John,

    Too much conjecture on your part this AM. They could have been really nice Russian managers for all you know. For that matter, all we know about the people running the dating service has come from cops and frequently-less-than-accurate “news” outlets.

    Perhaps when reason does their own investigation, rather than relying on their peers, we will get to the root of the facts.

  89. If this is really mob-related (and if it is, it hasn’t hit any of the major media I’ve seen) then there’s nothing at all “voluntary” about the work going on.

  90. He should be prosecuted for prostitution and for money laundering, then he should have all his assets seized, then he should be put on the offender registry for life. That is what he would do to others.

  91. bear with me kids.

    Jesus said: judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged…
    matthew 7:1-2

  92. Rywun,

    Why must you impose your unfounded biases on those who do not share your chosen profession?

  93. “My question is this: since a porn actress will do all sorts of crazy stuff for amounts at (I believe) $700-1000 per shoot, are they getting more than that (as in all the sex acts)? I doubt it; I’m sure the secrecy and vetting of the girls is what costs.”

    Its the anonimity he pays for. Plus, these girls are very attractive (both face and body- many are models) and somewhat intelligent (girls paying their way through college). Its also about anonimity for the girls as well- these girls dont want to make porn for everyone to see. And they get to meet “interesting” men- not your average john.
    Also, the girl does not get the full $5000- actually less than half.

  94. The excerpts posted at smoking gun yesterday included one worker complaining the pay was no better than she could get modelling and she got into the business to make more than when she modelled. Another worker was complaining about a co-worker’s time conflicts getting her kids to and from school.

    These ladies were not trafficed women from eastern europe.

  95. Montag, if I chose to hook voluntarily for the mob, even $5K an hour wouldn’t be enough.

  96. re: Bill Clinton being client #1.

    I doubt it. His history suggests that attractive women aren’t his thing.

  97. He apparently met the hooker in Room 871 of the Mayflower hotel in Washington under the name of George Fox. Clearly, room 871 needs to be renamed as the George Fox suite.

  98. Rhywun,

    Thanks for proving my point in the shortest possible answer.

  99. From the NYT today

    “In a wiretapped conversation after the encounter, the prostitute, Kristen, called her booker to inform her that the session had gone well, and that she did not find the client “difficult,” as other prostitutes apparently had, according to the affidavit.

    The booker responds that he, in an apparent reference to Client 9, sometimes asks the women “to do things that, like, you might not think were safe.””

    Why am I not surprised that he was a shithead to his hookers? Anyone have a guess on what exactly Elliot wanted that the hooker thought someone might not think were safe? Am I evil wanting to hear that he wanted her to dress up like a little girl?

  100. Montag, WTF is your point?

  101. You’re late to the party John, these points were discussed at length yesterday. Perhaps you could go review that thread.

  102. I believe the consensus was bareback riding was the safety issue.

  103. ” things that, like, you might not think were safe”

    Oh, so the five grand rate was the premium for being a sadist?

    -jcr

  104. How “anti-prostitution” was Spitzer, really? State attorneys general don’t make the laws.

    Second, haven’t the media exaggerated his relationship with the service — implying that he was more than just a high-profile client? “Links to” the ring suggests considerably more; yet nothing else has been alleged.

    Which bank reported this to the authorities? Would it be fair to say that all over New York, bankers are pleased to hear of Spitzer’s misfortunes? And that getting someone investigated by the IRS is a pretty good way of harassing them on the cheap?

    Finally, isn’t the real story here that once again, a massive and expensive investigation into the alleged corruption of a public official ultimately comes down to little more than a blow job?

    Oh, more than a blow job. Maybe he asked for anal. That changes everything?

  105. Elizabeth Gracen,

    I meant the other ones. Let me make it up to you sweetie…..

  106. Oh, more than a blow job. Maybe he asked for anal. That changes everything?

    If he did that, at least he’d have started getting something for how much he paid.

    As for the rest of your post, if you can’t see the cosmic justice in this, and the fact that Spitzer is a grade-A five-star shithead, well, I guess you’re hopeless.

  107. Mutts=Democratic apologist

  108. Rhywun,

    Montag, WTF is your point?

    That everybody does not share your values and biases. So, you then posted on how you would not do what plenty of other people do.

    Sorry if I am not bright enough to explain this to you.

  109. How “anti-prostitution” was Spitzer, really? State attorneys general don’t make the laws.

    As a prosecutor, he busted and prosecuted two prostitution rings and made public statements that these evil businesses were a threat to public safety.

    So, yes he should take in the ass for this.

  110. That’s not a bad idea. When high profile folks get busted we could give them a choice…be brought down in disgrace OR we’ll forgive them as long as they now set to work, with the same passion as before, to LEGALIZE whatever behavior for which they got busted.
    I mean, if they were doing it, it probably shouldn’t be a crime, right?

    This is a brilliant idea!

  111. The allegations bearing down on New York’s governor didn’t start with a prostitute — despite lurid details in a federal affidavit detailing an alleged tryst with a “very pretty brunette” named Kristen last month.

    As New York attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, seen in 2004, was known for tackling corruption.

    1 of 2 Rather, sources familiar with the investigation said Tuesday that Gov. Eliot Spitzer’s troubles began with a federal money-laundering probe.

    From CNN.

    Spitzer was not randomly caught in the net of a prostitution investigation. He was the cause of the investigation.

  112. also from cnn. “This is a devastating blow to a once brilliant political career.”

  113. Epi,

    Feministing thread on the subject, containing a paragraph in the commentary so clueless about beauty and economics that it almost has to be satire:

    This was also an allegedly “high dollar” prostitution ring. This makes me feel gross in so many ways. So if I woman is beautiful/ young/ virginal/ experienced at S&M, etc. she’s worth a higher fetching price than an average prostitute? How is there a market for this? Who decides what a round with a specific women costs? Are there A, B, and C models? I could go on. You understand my hurt and pain in even thinking this kind of world exists.

  114. SugarFree

    That quote does indeed display an extraordinary level of cluelessness, but you know, “You understand my hurt and pain in even thinking this kind of world exists”, almost perfectly describes what I feel when I follow a link to Feministing and read some of the comments there.

  115. Ahhhhh SugarFree you dick…

    I am not getting work done already with this whole damn Spitzer thing and now you remind me that Feministing will be possibly more entertaining than I can handle.

    Why do you hate me and America?

  116. SugarFree,

    Thanks, that was classic!

  117. This is especially sad, given Spitzer’s record of fighting for women’s rights. I guess I should be glad that he’s fighting for the prostitutes’ rights in addition to supporting their livelihood (with his own genitals, even! Way to support the cause.)

  118. I do what I can when work doesn’t intrude.

    Why do you hate me and America?

    Because of what you did to my peoples!

    March 17th? What a shitty day for an Irish holiday. It’s stupid to have St. Paddy’s Day when it’s too cold to piss in the streets.

  119. The first Feministing thread on Spitzer does contain this amusing bit of conspiracy theory.

    So, Spitzer’s all set to strengthen NY’s abortion laws in favor of women, & then this hits the fan? Great timing!

  120. Any predictions on what firm will fill the void left by this overzealous prosecution of an undocumented business?

  121. Spite trumps principle

    Ah, but spite is a principle.

    The entire point of spite is the principle.

  122. While the myth of an independent female sex worker may be appealing to some degree, it is mostly that in this patriarchal society — a myth.

    So…difficult…to…stop…laughing…

  123. “So if I woman is beautiful/ young/ virginal/ experienced at S&M, etc. she’s worth a higher fetching price than an average prostitute?”

    As a beautiful, still-young, not-so-virginal, and somewhat-experienced at S&M woman I am offended by the feministing. Can anyone understand my hurt and pain? 😉

    (the fact that I had to qualify the adjectives cannot be good. damn. although it’s hard to understand how one can be “virginal” and “experienced at S&M” at the same time)

  124. although it’s hard to understand how one can be “virginal” and “experienced at S&M” at the same time

    Forced chastity play.

  125. the fact that I had to qualify the adjectives cannot be good. damn. although it’s hard to understand how one can be “virginal” and “experienced at S&M” at the same time

    Well, S&M does not always include sex you know . . .

    That string does bring the image to mind of the Asian “schoolgirl” from Kill Bill.

  126. “So if I woman is beautiful/ young/ virginal/ experienced at S&M, etc. she’s worth a higher fetching price than an average prostitute?”

    This is obviously a person made obtuse by too much philosophizing.

    To be confused in this way, you have to implicitly believe that the beautiful and ugly, the young and the old, the clean and the [potentially] diseased, and the clever and the clumsy should all be valued equally sexually.

    Basically even asking this question makes it clear that you would approve if Plato’s Republic sprang into being, and the beautiful and young were forced to have sex with the old and ugly [without compensation] just to demonstrate that everyone is equal.

  127. Given Spitzer’s prosecution of folks that purveyed the same type of service that he patronized, and his shameful Bible thumping (Old Testament), you’d have to say that he has this coming

  128. The faces thing surprised me. Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like? Conversely, if a woman has an extremely pretty face, is that sufficient for you to overlook an unattractive (by whatever your standards are) body?

    Am I sober? I knew a woman with a knockout figure and a, to put it charitably, substandard face. Guys would joke that they’d even kiss her face so that they could kiss her ass. My second, best, and final wife had a beautiful face and was, by government standards, obese. After six months you spend a lot more time looking at a woman’s face than you spend leering at her body.

    That’s just me.

  129. The faces thing surprised me. Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like? Conversely, if a woman has an extremely pretty face, is that sufficient for you to overlook an unattractive (by whatever your standards are) body?

    Personally, I prefer interesting faces over beautiful. Sarah Jessica Parker over Angelina Jolie.

    Skinny over either fat or classically proportional like a 40’s pinup.

    I don’t really get hung up on any of that though, as attractive women come in many different types, and beauty and sexual attraction are not the same thing.

    I’ve noticed in several reports the shock and dismay of Good(y two shoes)
    government types who believe this behavior to be out of character with Spitzer and what he represented. I’m surprised by this, but it seems for a lot of our fellow Americans history isn’t something they have absorbed much of and in political terms they really were born yesterday.

    Of course, you don’t have to be a libertarian to understand the intersection between a sociopathic hunger for power and control over people’s lives, but it certainly helps.

  130. As a beautiful, still-young, not-so-virginal, and somewhat-experienced at S&M woman I am offended by the feministing. Can anyone understand my hurt and pain? 😉

    pics plz

  131. So what I’m hearing is that many libertarians advocate the enforcement of evil laws if they happen to punish evil men – spite trumps principle.

    when someone is hoisted by their own petard, it’s hard not to laugh.

    when someone spends their life making petards for others, and then gets caught in their own net…etc etc and so forth.

    now, if any of us actually had a say in the legality of prostitution, you might have a point somewhere in there. but we don’t. this blowjob did. and thusly we all join hands and dance around the laughing pool.

    ha ha ha ha
    fuck you spitzer
    ha ha ha ha
    fuck you

  132. that should read,

    I’m not surprised by this . . .

  133. Sarah Jessica Parker over Angelina Jolie.

    But she looks like a foot!

  134. “My prediction: she will not be $5000/hr hot, because no one is.”

    I like what the French say, “In the dark, all cats are gray.”

  135. Fluffy,

    You just converted me to a Platonic Republican.

    Unrelated comment, I am still so torn, between the description rana gives and a woman who can weld.

  136. Sarah Jessica Parker over Angelina Jolie.
    Huh?

  137. I don’t post too much, but I posted the below yesterday, and it kinda fits here as well – what a time saver. Now, a reference to climate change – sure is “cold” and/or hot today, depending on your global warming view, and this comment is good for every article!

    “…but renting a dog is a four-legged escort service. It devalues all parties.”

    But I like being devalued – thats the point!!! May I have another?

  138. Guy,

    Maybe rana can weld? That way she could be your Distopian Dream Girl…

  139. Montag,

    Yes, there are probably ladies who choose to hook for the mob and make more money due to the increased risk. Knowingly aiding said criminal enterprise makes them criminals too. Choosing to be a criminal is hardly a choice worth celebrating.

  140. SF,

    Drat! I must wait until I get home to watch that! Trying to preserve my precious bodily fluids as the workday throbs on.

  141. In spite of myself, I did feel for the little misses at Spitzer’s news conference yesterday though she bares some responsibilaty for giving the sociopath the cover of legitamacy through marrying him in the first place. She looks like she could use some consoling. Anyone ever notice women’s nipples get better looking with age. A few years ago I dated a girl I knew well in highschool, her body, much better looking this time around . . . any way, I digress.

    Sarah Jessica Parker over Angelina Jolie.

    But she looks like a foot!

    It’s the deeply set eyes that are a little closer together than they should be, that just turns me on like nobody’s business.

    Unlike everyone else in Hollyweird she has never fucked with her gorgeous hair, one bobbed due cut and I can never look at you the same way again.

  142. Rhywun,

    Everybody does not wish for your fundamentalist values to be enshrined in law and imposed at the barrel of a gun at others.

    Nobody imposed “forced fun” celebrations on anybody else either. Well, in some other countries, yes, but not here.

    USA USA USA

  143. alan,

    She looks like she could use some consoling.

    If she can weld, I will share the duty with you.

  144. She looks like she could use some consoling.

    If she can weld, I will share the duty with you.

    I call sloppy seconds!

  145. Montag,

    WTF are you talking about? I have nothing against voluntary hooking. Hooking for the mob is either non-voluntary or criminal. Fuck. You’re so happy to shoot people down you don’t read what they write.

  146. Oh, so the five grand rate was the premium for being a sadist?

    Yes. Asking a girl to dress up as Henry Blodget, and slap you with Amazon stock certificates, isn’t something your average hooker would do.

  147. The faces thing surprised me. Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like? Conversely, if a woman has an extremely pretty face, is that sufficient for you to overlook an unattractive (by whatever your standards are) body?

    I am blessed in that I do not have to choose — Mrs. sixstring has a smoking body and a pretty face. She can’t weld but she is handy with a screwdriver. Biggest drawback and sometimes greatest asset — politics doesn’t interest her in the least.

    If I were shopping for a sex partner, and I am not, I would first be concerned with the type of service provided, then body type, then face.

  148. forget it rhywun – it’s montblog.

    stare not into the fuckfacery, lest it spoil your lunch.

  149. Rhywun,

    Seems someone else is the one failing to read . . . Just because they make different choices in their employers than you do is no reason to condemn them.

    Isn’t there already enough hate in the world without adding more?

  150. Guy,

    It’s just a Built To Spill song. Didn’t mean to arouse your ardor.

    lyrics

  151. SF,

    Groovy! But the big-brother filter at work will not let me get to that either. Trying The Google.

  152. Wow, that sucks. We may not get paid much, but we have zero filtering of the Internet.

  153. SF,

    Ah, yes another market tradeoff!

  154. Montag,

    You’re an idiot. I give up. Consider that a “win” if you wish. Make up something else I didn’t say while you’re at it for bonus points.

  155. Wow, name calling and everything just for not agreeing with your biased views and not accepting them as my own.

  156. oh montblog, montblog
    you take away the sins of the world
    have mercy on ussssssssssssssssss…

    there are, of course, choices. and then there are choices. the DEMAND KURVE types conflate choice[1] and choice[2] because complicated thinking hurtz head head hurtz bad durn socialistz hurtz head owwie.

  157. “Spitz” means horny in German. Nomen est omen.

  158. Guy, you do in fact appear to have severe reading comprehension problems.

    As far as I can determine, Rhywun is distinguishing between prostitutes that work for the mob and prostitutes that don’t because:

    1. Prostitutes who work for the mob are much less likely to be voluntary prostitutes

    and

    2. Prostitutes who do work voluntarily for the mob are contributing the proceeds of their work to an organization that commits actual, non-victimless crimes.

    This would mean that your counterarguments are non-sequiturs.

    Just because they make different choices in their employers than you do is no reason to condemn them

    This wouldn’t apply to the prostitutes under #1, and Rhywun isn’t condemning those prostitutes – she is showing concern for them, and their effective slavery.

    It would apply to the prostitutes under #2, but it’s a pretty bad argument. I think prostitution should be legal, too, but if you have your choice of pimps and you choose Osama bin Laden or Charles Manson, you suck and I condemn you. And yes, you deserve it.

  159. Fluffy having a little fit?

    Plenty of people voluntarily get involved with the mob, the people I clearly was talking about. I did not make any sweeping generalizations about anybody, just pointed out someone who was, then they backtracked and did some loops.

    Now, if you wish to discuss people who are involuntarily forced to work for anybody (this so-called “mob” included), we would be properly speaking of victims and the victomizers would be rightly called “bad” people.

  160. “Spitz” means horny in German.

    so his name means hornier in german?

    totally awesome.

    “voluntary” and “black market sex work” don’t always fit together.

    har har har. get it?

  161. Next thing you know, you people will be tryign to smear dog fighting.

    Wait, that was last year.

  162. hey now! the subhumans have to get their jollies somehow.

    it can’t all be hunting for alligators in the sewers, after all.

  163. 2. Prostitutes who do work voluntarily for the mob are contributing the proceeds of their work to an organization that commits actual, non-victimless crimes.

    A category that I thought it went without saying I was excluding from my original comment, except to assholes who trawl through the comments looking for cheap points to score.

  164. Eliot Spitzer is a gay man…. not that there’s anything wrong with that!

  165. How did I have a fit? Quote the words where I had a fit, Guy.

  166. Well she was 5’5 105lbs and brunette. At least he has good taste!

  167. Guy Montag gets the double entendre of the thread award for this one:

    Any predictions on what firm will fill the void . . . .

  168. Now, if you wish to discuss people who are involuntarily forced to work for anybody (this so-called “mob” included), we would be properly speaking of victims and the victomizers would be rightly called “bad” people.

    This is who Rhywun was initially talking about when she opened this line of discussion by saying:

    If this is really mob-related (and if it is, it hasn’t hit any of the major media I’ve seen) then there’s nothing at all “voluntary” about the work going on.

    I read this as a lament for those prostitutes who are compelled to work for the mob. This is because I can read English and understand it.

    You starting throwing out non sequiturs about Rhywun being a fundamentalist or some such nonsense.

    Rhwyun also addressed that subset of mob prostitutes who are not under compulsion.

    That still wasn’t enough for you.

    Seems someone else is the one failing to read . . . Just because they make different choices in their employers than you do is no reason to condemn them.

    I thought that here you were still, for some reason, misreading Rhywun’s posts to be fundamentalist anti-prostitution screeds, when it seems apparent to those of us who read English that she just doesn’t like the mob.

    I tried to straighten that out for you, but the cognitive dissonance halo around your head today is just too strong to break through.

  169. If this is really mob-related (and if it is, it hasn’t hit any of the major media I’ve seen) then there’s nothing at all “voluntary” about the work going on.

    I read this as a lament for those prostitutes who are compelled to work for the mob. This is because I can read English and understand it.

    And I read it as nobody working for the “mob” is doing it voluntarily, as in willingly choosing to work for a business controlled by “bad” people, not as in “community service”. The “then there’s nothing at all “voluntary” about the work going on” tipped me off to that interpretation.

    Would taking one of those comma-placement classes instead of taking decimal placement classes help correct the differences in what we are seeing from the same words?

  170. The faces thing surprised me. Sincere question for the men in the room: if a woman’s body is attractive enough, do you really not care what her face looks like?

    I think the face thing has more to do with not going to jail rather then men don’t like women’s faces.

    Plus there is the whole…”OMG that is that hooker from that web site” thing.

  171. Anyone looking into how this guy had this kind of money in cash to pay for 1000$ an hour hookers?

    How much does a NY attornay general make anyway?

  172. joshua,

    In dollars or in hooker vouchers?

  173. Anyone looking into how this guy had this kind of money in cash to pay for 1000$ an hour hookers?

    How much does a NY attornay general make anyway?

    That issue, due to the obvious implications, was discussed quite a bit yesterday but turns out the Spitzer family is plenty wealthy to support a multi-thousand dollar hooker habit. From the AP story today:

    Spitzer’s vast personal wealth would have made it easy for him to spend thousands of dollars on prostitutes. The scion of a wealthy Manhattan real estate developer, Spitzer reported $1.9 million in income to the IRS in 2006.

  174. He comes from immense IMMENSE wealth, so it is odd that he had to monkey around with moving funds between accounts to cover the cost. You’d think he would just have a separate checking account that Daddy would fund, and he could take cash out when he pleases. Something odd there.

    He destroyed people’s lives over prosecuting minor and ambiguous offenses, including prostitution, all to further his political career.

    My prediction: he’ll hang on & the democrats will close ranks to protect him, a la Clinton.

  175. “My prediction: he’ll hang on & the democrats will close ranks to protect him, a la Clinton.”

    I agree.

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