Some Background on this Al Gore Guy, Who Just Won the Nobel Prize…

Some reason stories over the years about Al Gore, who has been awarded this year's Nobel Peace Prize and has generally (though not always) been roundly booed in our print and web pages:

Free Speech for People Who Think Like Me: Al Gore, besserwisser chicken hypnotist (June 12, 2007)

Al Gore: Power Hungry (February 26, 2007)

An Inconvenient Truth: Gore as climate exaggerator (June 16, 2006)

Whose Media Is Gored?: Where Al Gore's TV channel went wrong (August 9, 2005)

Ironic Processing (November 2000)

Albert Agonistes: What Gore's winning storyline tells us about politicians (June 2000)

Source Code: Al Gore says he invented the Internet. What does he mean? (May 1999)

That's Fog Coming From Al Gore's Smoke-Free Guns: When Politicians Claim to Speak With Conviction, Voters Should Be Especially Wary. (August 1996)

Much more here.

Comments

[Guy Montag]

The Nobel people finally broke with their police of the Peace Prize being awarded fro trying to push Jews into the sea, like when Arafat and Carter got it?

[Guy Montag]

policy*

[joe]

Ha ha.

[ed]

This leaves him needing only a Tony for Best Musical.
Maybe he could persuade Mel Brooks to write the libretto.

[Warren]

The Nobel people finally broke with their police of the Peace Prize being awarded fro trying to push Jews into the sea, like when Arafat and Carter got it?

But fair is fair. They also gave it to Jews for implementing their world domination scheme, like when Henry Kissinger and Yitzhak Rabin got it.

[Hugh Akston]

Guy Montag,

Does it count if Gore warns that the sea will rise to consume the Jews?

[Episiarch]

When will Tipper get hers for her noble attempts to stop the menace of Twisted Sister and Deatht?ngue?

[AC]

This is almost as impressive as his award for world's biggest crap from the EFSMB.

[semm]

The guy took his already existing fame, and made a documentary which a lot of people saw, at least at first, because it was made by him, a famous person. The result of which has been a slight elevation in the amount of talking about a subject which was already on people's and government's minds beforehand.

Surely there are more deserving people out there.

[Told You So]

To the Gore-bashers: are we really better off because Bush "won" in 2000 ?

[Erol]

Al Gore, congratulations on winning the Nobel Peace Prize. Now it is time to announce your wish to become America's president, take your seat in the White House, and be the leader we have all been waiting for to move beyond the corrupt system of Empire and towards Earth community. Kudos to the Nobel Committee for realizing that sustainability is peace.

[joe]

You should be straight with your readers - the Nobel was given to the IPCC and Al Gore. He's the spokesmodel, they did the work. Otherwise, you run the risk of removing science from the center of the - well, "debate" isn't quite the right word anymore, how about "discussion?" - about global warming, and replacing it with politics.

And Lord knows Reason magazine wouldn't want to do that. I mean, what would your illustrious Science Correspondant say?

[BakedPenguin]

Surely there are more deserving people out there.

Yes, but in the minds of Nobel selectors, their selection wouldn't piss off Bush nearly as much. And isn't pissing off Bush what peace is really about?

To the Gore-bashers: are we really better off because Bush "won" in 2000 ?

No, but that doesn't mean he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize.

[joe]

Heading off half a billion or so climate refugees is a pretty good way of preserving peace.

Mass migrations forced by ecological collapse don't tend to involve a lot of welcome wagons and refrains of Kumbaya.

[Episiarch]

Now it is time to announce your wish to become America's president

I thought he was to become Emperor of the Moon.

[JasonL]

He should have a pic taken with Kissinger.

[John C. Randolph]

"To the Gore-bashers: are we really better off because Bush "won" in 2000 ?"

Depends. Economically, maybe. Civil liberties-wise, hard to tell. It was a democrat, after all, who rounded up US citizens and put them in concentration camps in the 1940's.

-jcr

[John-David]

It's always funny seeing the controversy this increasingly meaningless "award" can generate. Anything won by Arafat, Carter, Gorbachev, Kissinger, UNICEF, and the UN proper is a joke, and should be seen as such.

Christ, I forgot the everloving Dalai freaking Lama, who is about as worthless of a piece of crap as has ever walked this planet.

[P Brooks]

I'm envisioning of whirled peas.

[Told You So]

"No, but that doesn't mean he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize."

Fair point but Gore-bashing is pretty unseemly when we consider how much better off the country and the world would have been if the candidate the American people voted for in 2000 had become president. No, Gore isn't perfect, and no, Gore being president wouldn't mean everything would be well. But when we consider the walking disaster called George W. Bush...

[P Brooks]

of

[Episiarch]

But when we consider the walking disaster called George W. Bush...

Do you really think Prez Gore would have reacted much differently to 9/11? We would be at a very similar place. Even if we hadn't invaded Iraq, I guarantee you civil liberties would be at the same place.

[val]

Heading off half a billion or so climate refugees is a pretty good way of preserving peace.

damn, joe, I must have watched a different documentary

[Irate Pirate]

"To the Gore-bashers: are we really better off because Bush "won" in 2000 ?"

No no, the point is that we are worse off with either. They both try to fuck you out of your rights, and your money

[joe]

Yup. He wouldn't have downgraded the Director Counter-Terrorism position from cabinet to subcabinet level a few months before 9/11. He wouldn't have gone off half-cocked and invaded Iraq on false pretenses. He would have finished Afghanistan, closing the deal at Tora Bora. He would not have stripped us of our habeaus corpus rights, nor authorized torture. Nor would he have turned the U.S. Attorneys offices into partisan witch hunters.

[Told You So]

Yes, I agree there would have been civil liberties curtailments under president Gore (like I said, he isn't perfect). That said, it's hard to imagine a Republican Congress giving a Democratic president as much power as it's given GWB. It's hard to imagine the "liberal" newsmedia howling for giving all power to the Leader if Gore had been president.

"Even if we hadn't invaded Iraq" is a pregnant phrase if ever there was one. That alone would have made a Gore presidency worth it.

[James Ard]

Yea, Instead of the economy rescusitating tax cuts, Gore and congress would have been deadlocked on proposed tax increases. Meaning the recession would have lasted a hell of a lot longer.

[J sub D]

To the Gore-bashers: are we really better off because Bush "won" in 2000 ?

Hell no! I voted for Bush in 2000 and my knees are getting rubbed raw from the self prescribed penance. I don't like Gore, I don't respect Gore, but IMHO Dubya has now dropped below Nixon on the presidential competency scale. Gore couldn't do worse if he tried.

Still Al Gore doesn't deserve the Nobel Peace Prize. The awarding committee neglected to ask my opinion again. (sigh!)

[joe]

We would have had competant emergency personnel managers running FEMA during Katrina and Rita, rather than his cronies' college buddies.

We would have had fiscally-repsonsible budgets submitted to Congress.

We would have had far fewer Enron-esque mortgage derivatives being sold by non-bank mortgage companies, who would have therefore been less eager to push foolish loans, so our economy wouldn't be slipping into recession.

[joe]

His Attorney General wouldn't have reassigned FBI agents from counterterrorism to the dirty moview patrol.

He wouldn't have urged Israel to expand its punitive strikes against Hezbollah into a nationwide military campaign that brought down the democratic reforms who had come to power during the Hariri demonstrations.

It's likely Gore would have made his own mistakes, but it's inconceivable that he'd make the world-historical-scale blunders that have characterized the past six and a half years.

[joe]

James Ard,

Are you forgetting that Al Gore ran on a $600 billion tax cut in 2000, or are you trying to snow us?

[Dan T.]

I wondered if there would be a meltdown here after I heard the news about the Peace Prize.

[James Ard]

Joe, the liberal idea of giving loans to people who can't afford them is the root of the sub-prime problem, which apparently isn't triggering another recession.

[James Ard]

I believe Gore also ran on regime change in Iraq.

[BakedPenguin]

...He would have finished Afghanistan, closing the deal at Tora Bora. He would not have stripped us of our habeaus corpus rights, nor authorized torture. Nor would he have turned the U.S. Attorneys offices into partisan witch hunters.

joe, I agree with you on Iraq, I seriously doubt he would have invaded, and yes, (Told You So), that alone would be worth the price of admission.

The rest of what you're saying (joe) is speculation. Clinton liked to abuse his power, and he didn't even have a war going to give him the excuse. The Dems are not better (as a group) on discretionary power.

[joe]

No, James, it's not. Subsidized mortgages with favorable rates backed by federal insurance - the liberal idea for helping poor people buy homes - has absolutely nothing to do with sub-prime mortgages.

[joe]

I believe Gore also ran on regime change in Iraq.

You believe a lot of things, James. They just rarely have anything to do with fact.

[Warren]

joe,
Would my farts also smell like roses if Gore had been elected?

[Episiarch]

joe, your crystal ball is quite powerful*. Can you give me the next winning Powerball numbers please?

* yes I realize that I also predicted that Gore would be just as bad on civil liberties. This prediction is based on the fact that basically all politicians are terrible on civil liberties, and not on the fact that Gore is, according to you, Jesus without all the icky religion stuff.

[joe]

BakedPenguin,

Like I said, I'm sure Gore would have made mistakes, too. And events like the FBI records case are definitely a problem.

But let's not lose our sense of proportion here. Nothing Clinton/Gore ever did amounts to a molehill beside mountains like the Gonzales memo, the Military Commissions Act, the phoney voter fraud cases, the latest secret memo the NYT reported, the Plame outing, the record number of signing statements (including the one applied to the McCain anti-torture bill), the new torture memo we're learning about this week, or the use of federal agencies to go after Qwest for not cooperating with illegal wiretapping.

[joe]

Yeah, the case "Gore would have been just as bad as Bush," that people like Ard and Episiarch are reduced to arguing, "Al Gore would NOT have been perfect."

Nice strawman, hosers, but it just draws attention to how impossible it is to defend your original statement.

[squarooticus]

Fry: "Who are you people?"

Al Gore: "I'm Al Gore. And these are my vice presidential action rangers. A groupd of top-nerds whose sole duty is to prevent disruptions in the space-time continuum."

Fry: "I thought your sole duty was to cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate."

Al Gore: "That, and protect the space-time continuum. Read the Constitution."

[DannyK]

Al Gore: A bigger fascist than FDR, or just as big?
--Stephen Colbert

[R C Dean]

Heading off half a billion or so climate refugees is a pretty good way of preserving peace.

Wow. The seas are going to rise 20 feet in a day? I must have stepped out for popcorn for that one.

[ed]

what would your illustrious Science Correspondant say?

We don't need no stinking science correspondent. We have joe to set us straight!

[Episiarch]

Nice strawman, hosers, but it just draws attention to how impossible it is to defend your original statement.

joe, using Canadian insults is going a bit far, don't you think? Eh?

[Scooby]

Gore couldn't do worse if he tried.

But you know he would have tried.

[J sub D]

I would actually like hin to enter the race for president, 2008. He'd have a good chance vs Hillary Clinton, and he'd drub the survivor of the Rudy McRomney debacle. I rarely vote for Democrats, but if Gore entered the race, I could see myself doing it.

A not so bold prediction, the Democratic nominee will win th '08 election. IMO, the reformed drug pusher (tobacco) is our best realistic option left. Go Ron Paul, and all that, but it ain't gonna happen!

[John-David]

We're in fantasy land now, where things like Waco, Elian Gonzales, bombing Sudanese aspirin factories, and parsing the word "is" on national television happened under some president who wasn't Bill Clinton.

[ChrisO]

Al Gore would have been a terrible, statist nightmare as president. Better that he stay on the rubber chicken circuit blathering on about global warming.

Would he have been worse than Bush? Impossible to know, but most likely he would have been "differently bad."

[joe]

Episiarch,

This prediction is based on the fact that basically all politicians are terrible on civil liberties

See, and that's the difference between us. I base my opinions on the specific facts and evidence of particular cases, and you base yours on broad statements that don't require you to know what you're talking about.

For example, I looked at those actions George Bush undertook which were unique, novel, and at odds with either what Al Gore has specifically said, or with the prevailing opinions of everyone outside the Bush administration, and concluded that Al Gore would not have done those things.

You started with the premise that Al Gore is just as bad as George Bush, and then concluded that statements to contrary must therefore be wrong.

[JasonL]

Moreso even than most of these awards, we won't know if this made any sense until history has its say. If it turns out that temperature increases are insensitive to carbon reduction, and Gore convinces us to spend trillions total on carbon reduction, this won't look good. If we are able to stabilize temperatures (not carbon, but global average temperature), Gore will deservedly get some credit.

[joe]

RC,

How high did the seas rise in one day in New Orleans?

You do understand that flooding happens in intense bursts in specific locations during storm events, right?

[Snarky McSnarkerson]

If only Armand Hammer were alive he would be sooooo proud. Afterall he invented the Gore's.

And before you call the Snarkster a waco, lets revisit an old NYT piece:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A03E1D6123AF93AA25750C0A9669C8B63&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fG%2fGore%2c%20Albert%20Sr%2e

[joe]

Let's all close our eyes, and pretend that the worse things that our government did in the last six years were Waco, Elian Gonzales, bombing Sudanese aspirin factories, and parsing the word "is" on national television.

This is supposed to be the case against Gore?

[Episiarch]

You started with the premise that Al Gore is just as bad as George Bush, and then concluded that statements to contrary must therefore be wrong.

Actually, I started with several premises:

1. Power corrupts.
2. Al was VP under a power-abusing President.
3. It seems lately that the office of President is getting more powerful and that all holders of that office seem to like that.
4. Al is a statist fucknuckle who would curtail liberties without a problem.

What has Al done, ever, that would make me think he wouldn't be terrible? Not terrible in exactly the same way as Bush, but terrible nonetheless?

[joe]

RC,

You do understand that dramatic climate changes result in formerly fertile areas becoming less able to support crops, right?

You do understand that Bangladesh is already a flood-zone nightmare, and just a small sea rise would make the problem vastly worse, right?

You do understand that Pacific islands have already been abandoned, and their residents forces to relocate, because of rising sea levels, right?

You need to start grounding your opinions in knowledge, instead of what you can make sound plausible if you play dumb hard enough.

[joe]

Episiarch,

Actually, I started with several premises: And from them, you went beyond the reasonable "Therefore, Al Gore would likely infringe on civil liberties in ways I don't like," and jumped to the absurd "Therefore, Al Gore would be just as bad on civil liberties as George Bush."

What has Al done, ever, that would make me think he wouldn't be terrible? Not terrible in exactly the same way as Bush, but terrible nonetheless?

Spoken out against the civil liberties violations of the Bush administration. If you wish to pretend that Bush's encroachments on civil liberties are not worse than those of his predecessors, but just different, then that's your perogative, but the facts prove otherwise.

[An Ottawa Reader]

joe, using Canadian insults is going a bit far, don't you think? Eh?

Yeah, really!

joe is right, though--the prize was shared between the IPCC and Gore (they got half each). I don't think Gore deserved half the prize. At best, you might just as well say Bono deserves the prize. The IPCC did all the work.

When Reason and its science correspondent comes to accept that climate change is a real problem, I consider debate among reasonable people closed, though the issue of just how to deal with it remains as interesting as ever.

Given this, did the IPCC deserve the prize? Discuss.

[John-David]

Let's all close our eyes, and pretend that the worse things that our government did in the last six years were Waco, Elian Gonzales, bombing Sudanese aspirin factories, and parsing the word "is" on national television.

This is supposed to be the case against Gore?

Some of us who have studied history recognize that, with rare exceptions, each president ends up abusing his power more than his predecessor. Pretending that the guy who said nothing during the abuses I mentioned would not have done the same as president is willful blindness.

[Episiarch]

Spoken out against the civil liberties violations of the Bush administration.

Oh please. And if Gore had won, Bush would have "spoken out" against Gore's inevitable encroachments. It's called "politics". I mean, politicians never oppose things because they are done by the opposite party.

Your faith in your savior is touching.

[ed]

debate among reasonable people closed

Right, because scientific inquiry is finite. Get to the conclusion you want and stop. When others object, call them "deniers." Keep repeating to yourself that the science is "settled." Make a movie and win a prize. That's how real science is done. In Hollywood.

[Dakota]

"The Department of Justice believes, and the case law supports, that the president has inherent authority to conduct warrantless physical searches for foreign intelligence purposes," ..."and that the President may, as has been done, delegate this authority to the Attorney General."

Deputy Attorney General Jamie Gorelick testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee on July 14, 1994.

[Reason\'s Global Warming Repor]

John-David,

You missed the point. Even if Gore carried out activities exactly like those you mentioned, we would still be in a vastly better country than we are after the last six and a half years.

I'm not pretending that Gore wouldn't have done things like that. I'm saying that they don't add up to a single month's worth of the damage wrought by the Iraq War alone.

[val]

geez, joe, take it easy, I dont think even the Ron Paul groupies get that worked up around here when some on attacks their man

[joe]

Er, that was me.

Episiarch,

You can sing your little "joe and Al sittin' in a tree" song all you want.

It doesn't change the fact that George Bush has been the worst president in American history; that Al Gore would have been vastly better ; and that most of American realizes it.

You're the one with the religious faith here. You JUST KNOW that Gore would have been just as bad, because "Pox on both their houses" is your spiritual creed.

[joe]

val,

I know that these comments are difficult to read emotionally, but let me clear something up for you:

I'm not upset; I'm psyched. What you're picking up on when you say I'm "worked up" is the joy that comes when a victory turns into a rout.

[Russ R]

joe: "You do understand that dramatic climate changes result in formerly fertile areas becoming less able to support crops, right?"

But joe... aren't you forget to mention all the presently unfertile areas that could become more able to support crops?

[thoreau]

Show some gratitude, guys. If Al Gore hadn't invented the internet how could we all bitch about him together? We'd have to bitch about him in our own little local pubs, instead of a big nationwide complaint fest.

For those about to whine, I salute you!

[anon]

You know the Gore fanbois are desparate when all they can resort to is "oh yeah - Bush is worse!"

. . . .still looks around for Bush support here. . . .

[JasonL]

"For example, I looked at those actions George Bush undertook which were unique, novel, and at odds with either what Al Gore has specifically said, or with the prevailing opinions of everyone outside the Bush administration, and concluded that Al Gore would not have done those things."

But to be fair, it is only the actual president who has to face the overwhelming pressure to "Do something!" or "Make us safe now!" I blame most civil liberties problems that arise from crises on voters, and tend to believe that no politician wants to be the guy who 'didn't do enough'.

[anon]

Not only is Gore conveniently ignoring offers to debate him on his stances, he also seems to ignore possible solutions to global warming. (iron-seeding, anyone?)

Then chickenlittle would be out of a job.

[Russ R]

Guys...

Come on now... let give joe his one happy day to bask in Al Gore's gloryhole.

[joe]

Russ R,

But joe... aren't you forget to mention all the presently unfertile areas that could become more able to support crops?

No, I'm not. What I'm remembering is that the people currently have their homes, communities, irrigation systems, transportation systems, etc. in the places that are currently fertile, not in those that might become fertile in the future.

It's the CHANGE part that's the threat here. If the seas were a few feet higher when NYC was founded, it would have been built in a different place, and would have been just as successful and prosperous in that place. But it wasn't - it was built at its current location and elevation.

[thoreau]

I blame most civil liberties problems that arise from crises on voters, and tend to believe that no politician wants to be the guy who 'didn't do enough'.

What do you say about voters who knowingly support a candidate who authorizes torture?

[Episiarch]

I'm not upset; I'm psyched. What you're picking up on when you say I'm "worked up" is the joy that comes when a victory turns into a rout.

Uh-oh...joe is going on one of his "I'm winning neener neener" rants again.

"Pox on both their houses" isn't a spiritual creed, joe, it's just a dispassionate observation. When the Democrats and Republicans actually do things significantly differently than each other (just talking about it doesn't count), you let me know.

[Neu Mejican]

Given this, did the IPCC deserve the prize? Discuss.

That's no fun. Can't make fun of someone who is more successful than you in that discussion.

[J sue D]

What do you say about voters who knowingly support a candidate who authorizes torture?

It's pretty hard to omit the adjective evil in any statement regarding a person who authorizes or approves of torture.

[joe]

See, Episiarch, this is why I keep getting to do end-zone dances, and you don't:

Pox on both their houses" isn't a spiritual creed, joe, it's just a dispassionate observation.

That statement can be BOTH. If you're actually talking about a situation in which both parties are equally bad, then it is a dispassionate observation.

But if you are just assuming that both parties must, in whatever case comes up, be equally bad, then it is a statement of faith.

Your ideology is not a defense against partisan bias - EVEN IF your ideology incorporates equivalency between the two parties as a fundamental statement of faith. All you've done is pledged your allegiance to a thrid type of partisan bias.

[Episiarch]

joe, I'm going to quote myself:

When the Democrats and Republicans actually do things significantly differently than each other (just talking about it doesn't count), you let me know.

So when you are done shaking your ass in the end zone, maybe you can answer that question. How's that troop withdrawl going?

[Lamar]

It is outrageous that they would give the Nobel Peace Prize to guy who doesn't even support the troops.

[joe]

It's not going well, Episiarch.

The Republicans, acting en masse, keep blocking the Democrats', acting en masse, efforts to bring about a troop withdrawal.

But hey, the party voting in lockstep not to stop the war and the party voting in lockstep to stop the war are exactly the same. And we know this, because they both are not libertarians.

Had you taken a second to think about whether the parties were same on this issue, instead of just assuming it, you wouldn't look so bad right now.

[Mike Laursen]

joe, Episiarch, once you guys wrap up your brilliant debate and one of you convinces the other of what would have happened in an alternative universe where Al Gore served as President, can you just post a brief summary of what you concluded?

[Episiarch]

I am afraid that the results are only for joe and myself, Mike. But thanks for interrupting our pointless debate with a pointless comment.

[VM]

joe -

your first comment, the Nelson Munz'esque "Ha Ha" is awesome! Hilarious!!!!!

🙂

[Graphite]

Ah, the cognitive style of PowerPoint. Even the Nobel Prize committee is snowed!

[J sub D]

See, Episiarch, this is why I keep getting to do end-zone dances, and you don't:

Excellent metaphor, joe. Terell Owens and Randy Moss do a lot of end-zone dances. Barry Sanders just handed the ball to the ref.

[Douglas Gray]

The Nobel Committee could have made a terrific statement by awarding the prize, not to an individual, but a large group, namely the courageous Buddhist Monks in Burma who faced down the Junta.

[Guy Montag]

Does it count if Gore warns that the sea will rise to consume the Jews?

Ah, now he fits into the set. The matter is settled, like science.

[R C Dean]

So, joe, you're claiming that an increase in storms, rather than a rise in sea level, is going to create 500 million refugees?

[Graphite]

The Nobel Committee could have made a terrific statement by awarding the prize, not to an individual, but a large group, namely the courageous Buddhist Monks in Burma who faced down the Junta.

But Douglas, even if their opposition to the Junta had succeeded, they would have all been wiped out by catastrophic global warming induced floods and tsunamis! Clearly Gore has made the greater contribution to peace in Burma.

[Graphite]

By the way, if quashing hypothetical threats to peace is the new standard for the Nobel Prize, shouldn't George W. Bush be the ultimate candidate?

[Vermont Gun Owner]

joe, Episiarch, once you guys wrap up your brilliant debate and one of you convinces the other of what would have happened in an alternative universe where Al Gore served as President, can you just post a brief summary of what you concluded?

Well, let's just follow what that Family Guy episode says. Oh wait, that's what joe's been saying the whole time.

[Douglas Gray]

Menchem Begin oversaw the Deir Yassan Massacre in 1948, in which Jewish terrorists entered a largely unarmed, and strategically insignificant Palestian village, and massacred 254 innocent people, largely women, children, and old men. The Nazis were hung from the gallows for exhibiting simlilar behavior in Jewish Ghettos in Poland. Begin, on the other hand, won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1978.

[dhex]

everyone dance like there's a hamster in your pants...

[Joel]

Begin, on the other hand, won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1978.

Then a few years later the Palestinian who wanted to wipe out Begin's folks won the same prize.

Which leads me to wonder...what atrocity has algore committed, that we haven't heard about yet? Hey! Maybe he's secretly CAUSING global warming!

[Stevo Darkly]

This discussion of the Goretopia we'd all be living in, if only Gore had been selected president, is interesting in light of a novel I recently finished: The Execution Channel, by Ken MacLeod. (MacLeod is a leftyish Scottish science fiction writer with strong libertarian sympathies and a few anti-Yank-imperialist antipathies.)

MILD SPOILER WARNING, because we don't find out until we're nearly halfway through the book, and it doesn't really affect the main plot. It's just part of the background.

But The Execution Channel is set in an alternate present/near-future, in which Gore was elected president instead of Bush.

The terrorist attacks of 9-11 still occurred, but differently. For one thing, they occurred on 7-7.

And President Gore is blamed for precipitating them. See, a few months earlier, President Gore "pulled a Clinton" and for political reasons launched a cruise missile attack on an alledged terrorist base camp -- in the process, killing a prominent anti-American Islamist leader named Osama bin Laden.

This unprovoked attack enraged many in the Muslim world, who launched the 7-7 attacks as part of the blowback against President Gore's imprudent action. (Certainly no one can imagine the 7-7 attacks happening "out of a clear blue sky" if they hadn't had Gore's attack as a pretext.)

As a result, the USA is involved not only in a war in Afghanistan, but elsewhere in the Middle East (but Iran instead of Iraq, IIRC) and in the Muslim regions of Central Asia following the collapse of the Communist Chinese government.

(Paranoid right-wing conspiracy theorists think President Gore precipitated the war in the Middle East and Central Asia on purpose. In order to deliberately drive up the price of oil. So that people would be forced to turn to alternate, non-oil-burning technologies. And thereby stave off Global Warming. Which President Gore is so obsessed with, he just might be capable of starting a war in order to avert this supposed environmental apocalypse.)

And the US government is still guilty of using torture in the War Against Terrorism, not only in the Middle East and Central Asia but against suspected enemy agents domestically and in Europe.

Because a certain number of atrocities are inevitable when a nation goes to war.

(One character, a US government agent, feels sickened after a torture session. But it had to be done. One of the many ways the Gore administration's critics are wrong, he thinks, is that they keep assuming the Gore government and its loyalists enjoy using torture. That's probably because most of those critics are conservatives, he thinks, and hence mean-spirited sadists themselves.)

Kind of depressing to think that world under President Gore wouldn't be all that different.

It's just a science fiction novel, though. Doesn't have anything to do with the real world.

[joe]

Excellent metaphor, joe. Terell Owens and Randy Moss do a lot of end-zone dances. Barry Sanders just handed the ball to the ref

And Scott Zollack didn't get the chance to find out.

I take enough shit for being right that I'm allowed to gloat. You know, I'm actually a lot more gracious in meatspace, where I don't get called an evil mass-murdering elitist for making accurate predictions.

[joe]

RC Dean,

So, joe, you're claiming that an increase in storms, rather than a rise in sea level, is going to create 500 million refugees?

You just did the equivalent of asking whether an atomic fireball, or the splitting of uranian atoms, destroyed Nagasaki.

[Episiarch]

I take enough shit for being right that I'm allowed to gloat.

joe, there's this concept called "delusion". Check it out.

[Scooby]

You just did the equivalent of asking whether an atomic fireball, or the splitting of uranian atoms, destroyed Nagasaki.

[pedant]That one's easy. It was an atomic fireball, since the Nagasaki bomb was a plutonium bomb, and didn't involve the spliting of a significant number of uranium atoms.[/pedant]

[highnumber]

Gawd, I hate to jump into this morass, but...

We would have had far fewer Enron-esque mortgage derivatives being sold by non-bank mortgage companies, who would have therefore been less eager to push foolish loans, so our economy wouldn't be slipping into recession.

Subsidized mortgages with favorable rates backed by federal insurance - the liberal idea for helping poor people buy homes - has absolutely nothing to do with sub-prime mortgages.

Most subprime loans go to people that FHA won't touch. People with recent BKs, foreclosures. People who don't have good credit and can't prove their income. Anyway, I think (I may be misremembering) Bush's administration actually pushed for the borrower's minimum investment to go down from 3% to 0%. Congress didn't go for it. Anyway, the lenders offer A- programs that are FHA's real competition. B, C, and D, on the other hand are a totally different beast. Blaming any of that on Bush, or implying that Gore would handled that fiasco better, is especially silly, even in this silly little Bush vs Gore fight you guys have going.

[R C Dean]

So, joe, you're claiming that an increase in storms, rather than a rise in sea level, is going to create 500 million refugees?

You just did the equivalent of asking whether an atomic fireball, or the splitting of uranian atoms, destroyed Nagasaki.

No, joe, I'm just curious about what kind of science-fiction-movie storms are going to render homeless nearly a quarter of the people on the planet.

[Robin Williams]

everyone dance like there's a hamster in your pants...

That's not a hamster - it's my Wonder Weasel!

[joe]

You suck, Scooby!

highnumber,

My point is that a President Gore, free of the delusion that people with money can do no wrong, would probably not have watched the subprime loan/mortgage derivative beast grow over the past few years and done nothing.

[joe]

Dear RC,

There are six billion people on the planet. 500 million is 1/12 of that number.

You should really stop assuming that you occupy the intellectual high ground.

love,

joe

[alphahawk1999]

It seems to me that peace and and Gore's movie on global warming are two different concepts. Yes he does share the prize with IPCC. He made the movie to appeal to the anti-industrial choir. I fail to understand how two hundred years of industrialization can undo 4 billion years of natural devlopment. I think that if you program a computer to find evidence of global warming, or not to find it, you will see what you want to see. I do admit that the earth's temperature has risen a degree. What is causing it I'm not sure.

[Mike Laursen]

He made the movie to appeal to the anti-industrial choir.

The actual content of the film was about 60% genuine concern for the environment, 15% sensational cherry picking of worst-case projections, and 25% political promo for Al Gore. I don't recall any explicit anti-industrial statements.

My only real beef with Gore is his roughly 0% acknowledgement that more nuclear energy would reduce greenhouse gases.

[Stevo Darkly]

I think we need a new Al Gore thread:

"Al Gore would be a cooler captain of the USS Enterprise than Jean-Luc Picard, but not as cool as James T. Kirk. Agree or disagree? Discuss."

[Mike Laursen]

I'd rate him as cooler than Captain Archer, but not as cool as either Kirk or Picard.

[Lamar]

Al Gore is like Captain Malcolm Reynolds, except without the swagger, witty sayings, tight pants, hot chicks, cool gun, rugged looks, mysterious heroics and introverted masculinity.

Right?

[R C Dean]

The Republicans, acting en masse, keep blocking the Democrats', acting en masse, efforts to bring about a troop withdrawal.

Since the Dems hold a majority, it shouldn't be possible for the Repubs to block anything the Dems want "en masse".

There are six billion people on the planet. 500 million is 1/12 of that number.

Bad math on my part. The basic incredibility of your statement is unchanged.

[Stevo Darkly]

I'd rate him as cooler than Captain Archer, but not as cool as either Kirk or Picard.

No, "a cooler captain than Picard" is kind of a gimme. Everybody is a cooler captain than Picard.

I think Gore would rank in coolness about the same as Captain Bridger of the seaQuest in seaQuest: DSV.

Not as cool as the actor Roy Scheider, but about as cool as the character of Captain Bridger.

I would also add that Gore is cooler than that young ensign, Lucas, and Darwin the talking dolphin.

But imagine how much better the world would be if Darwin the talking dolphin had been elected president instead of Bush II. He's smarter, more environmentally aware, and has never been acused of doing anything of the bad things that Bush has done. Also: a better public speaker.

[Stevo Darkly]

An Al Gore Haiku

Invents Internet
Saves half-billion refugees
Truly: Son of God

[Stevo Darkly]

Smart, kind, sensitive
Handsome in a blocky way
Go gay for Al Gore!

[Stevo Darkly]

Serious question:
If Al Gore fought Jesus Christ
Who would win, you think?

[joe]

Captin Gore would be less cool than Christopher Pike, post-plasma core accident.

The beeping lights on the wheelchair are certainly more emotionally expressive.

[joe]

RC Dean,

Since the Dems hold a majority, it shouldn't be possible for the Repubs to block anything the Dems want "en masse". Veto power, fillibuster.

[Toast, Powdered. In a can.]

You missed the point. Even if Gore carried out activities exactly like those you mentioned, we would still be in a vastly better country than we are after the last six and a half years.

That's what I've been saying all along. This only supports the argument that leftists have nothing better to do than whine and make the rest of us miserable.

But that doesn't mean we should cave in just to make them go away.

[Rick Barton]

"It's fitting that I should win the Nobel Prize since I invented it"

Al Gore

[Rick Barton]

Dear RC,

love,

joe

Ok-I'm starting to get kinda misty now, you guys. I've had spirited diagreements on different issues with both joe and RC. But the H&R cyber family warmth is always there...Right? Uh...right guys?

BTW, does it seem to anyone else that words like "cyber" and "blogosphere are starting to feel a tad pass? maybe? But I still use em.

Now what was this thread about? Oh yeah!?.The elephant in the room here is that THE WHOLE SOLAR SYSTEM IS GETTING WARMER!!

[Eric Gisin]

When is the South Park episode "Al Gore, new Messiah" coming out?