He's Back: David Irving's "Comeback Tour"

Over at The Atlantic, Megan McArdle and Andrew Sullivan post on the reemergence of the odious, Holocaust-denying "historian" David Irving, who is apparently planning a "comeback tour." Sullivan links to a recent Guardian profile where Irving explains that his views on the Holocaust have "crystallized," and that "The Jews are the architects of their own misfortune." (Irving echoes the Nazi slogan "Die Juden sind unsere Unglück"—"The Jews are our misfortune"—thought the journalist doesn't seem to notice).

So I headed over to Irving's paranoid website to see what the Obersturmbannführer of revisionism was up to these days; to browse the thicket of links to stories on Jewish perfidy and download a PDF copy of his pulped Goebbels book. On the front page of his "Action Report," Irving links to this story:

· Harvard Law School expels graduate allegedly for "holocaust denial": Dershowitz again behind it- AWPOW!!

Like most of Mr. Irving's books, the above story is a hoax circulating on various "anti-Zionist" websites. Irving, who told a British judge during his libel trial that he was, in fact, a "scrupulously fair" historian, links uncritically.

Good to see that, after being imprisoned in Austria (an idiotic decision, of course), he's back to his old scrupulous academic research.

Comments

[Taktix?]

It's assholes like this that make me want to convert to Judaism. But then I remember that I shouldn't believe in fairy tales of any stripe...

[MP]

But then I remember that I shouldn't believe in fairy tales of any stripe.

Which is why I haven't contributed to Ron Paul's campaign.

(ducks)

[Jamie Kelly]

Has Columbia University heard of this guy?

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Comeback tour? I think its safe to say that very few people were influenced by this lunatic the "first" time around. Ignore these goofs and let them wither...

[Captain America]

I'm proud, that for all our faults here in the USA, people like Irving are free to express their "dangerous" bullshit here.Europe really hates freedom.

[Shelby]

Can we lock him and Dershowitz in a small room, install a camera, and throw away the key?

[J sub D]

I'm proud, that for all our faults here in the USA, people like Irving are free to express their "dangerous" bullshit here.Europe really hates freedom.

Agreed. Inoffensive speech doesn't really need protection, does it? I don't think western Europe "hates" freedom. They're just not as fanatical about it (good thing!) as we are.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

"They're just not as fanatical about it (good thing!) as we are."
J sub D, are you saying we are wrong to be "fanatical" about freedom? I should think this is certainly one area where extremism is no vice to quote a late libertarian senator.

[WalterBoswell]

"fanatical" about freedom?

Oh bollox to that type of sentiment. Fanatical about easy to remember bumper sticker slogans might be closer to the truth. Try getting on an internal flight with a bush is no. 1 terrorist t-shirt and test out your land of the free mantra. Jesus wept, most of the stories posted up here portray the freedom loving usa as a totalitarian hell hole.

[matthew hogan]

How do you expel a graduate?

[Edward]

"I'm proud, that for all our faults here in the USA, people like Irving are free to express their "dangerous" bullshit here.

Hit&Run should be particularly proud.

[Patrick]

The nazi slogan is "Die Juden sind unser Ungl?ck", without the e.

[J sub D]

J sub D, are you saying we are wrong to be "fanatical" about freedom? I should think this is certainly one area where extremism is no vice to quote a late libertarian senator

I was afraid that could be misintreped but I was too lazy to rephrase it. Out "fanaticism" about free speech, press, etc is a great and glorious thing about our society. There, that should clear that up.

[Annonnie]

I'm proud, that for all our faults here in the USA, people like Irving are free to express their "dangerous" bullshit here.Europe really hates freedom.

Can I buy over the counter vicodin in Europe or should I try to smuggle mine in?

[Grand Chalupa]

Oh bollox to that type of sentiment. Fanatical about easy to remember bumper sticker slogans might be closer to the truth. Try getting on an internal flight with a bush is no. 1 terrorist t-shirt and test out your land of the free mantra.

I don't know if you noticed, but airlines are private companies. They can have any kind of dress code they want.

Better examples would be our drug laws, social security, the FCC, our drug laws, age of consent laws, labor protection laws, and our drug laws.

[NOT FLEMUR]

People are just mad because Irving contradicts WARM FUZZY PC FANTASIES!

[Russ R]

"I don't know if you noticed, but airlines are private companies. They can have any kind of dress code they want."

Except that it's the TSA that does security screening before you get anywhere near an airplane.

I've never seen an airline turn away any paying customer... even the idiotic and obnoxious ones that the rest of us wish would never be allowed on a plane.

[jj]

I am Jewish and am disgusted by Holocaust denial. But what disgusts me even more is Europe's jailing of the deniers for free speech. Hypocrites!

[Cardinal Schpelling Nahrzi]

Nazi has an initial cap N.

[Asharak]

I am Jewish and am disgusted by Holocaust denial. But what disgusts me even more is Europe's jailing of the deniers for free speech. Hypocrites!

It certainly was hypocritical of Austria to throw Irving in jail considering that J?rg Haider was allowed to be elected to high office.

[Matthew]

Patrick, Cardinal

Damn spelling Nazis.

oops

[Mutts]

Not to defend scum like this, but it's quite a different statement to say that Jews are hazardous to themselves (which Irving says) than it is to say they are hazardous to gentiles (which the Nazis said). The former statement is essentially meaningless -- if it reaches an anti-Semite, the implication is that he should leave the Jews alone (some thought!) and if it reaches a normal person, it elicits only a puzzled reaction. The latter clearly implies that some measures at containing "Jewish" influence are necessary. Irving may want to taunt "the Jews," whoever that means, and he's clearly lumping them all together, but let's not exaggerate what he says.

[Biz]

Mutts,

The problem with saying the jews bring misfortune upon themselves - is that it could imply that they deserve whatever happens to them.

[jj]

As a Jew I'll take whatever happens to me fine. But if you're what happens to me or my family, and you're not good news, expect me to defend myself against aggression.

I can't understand most Jews being anti-gun.

[pinko]

"Europe really hates freedom."

Man does this tired meme need to be taken out back and smashed with a shovel.

No Europe doesn't hate freedom. It hates, in about equal parts as in America, certain types of freedom.

One random example, walk down the street in any American city with an open beer, topless if you are a female, and packing some herb for personal use, where it might be found after you're harrassed by cops for the first two things, and then do the same thing in Europe. Notice the difference? Smell the tazed flesh here? Feel the cuffs on your wrists? Hear that nasty lecture from a pig who thinks you are a "civilian"? Notice how so many of us have at least one "the day I got thrown in jail story"? After living in Europe for three years, I heard almost none of those stories.

That shit is not nearly as likely to happen in most European countries.

Freedom in Europe is certainly curtailed in other ways, but categorical statements like "Europe really hates freedom" are pretty idiotic.

And yes, I love the amounts of free speech we have here. And I thought the decision to send Irving to jail was ridiculous. It doesn't justify wildly inaccurate statements though.

[Grand Chalupa]

topless if you are a female,

Really? Seems like the kind of freedom you like unless you have kids. Or parents you want to walk down the street without cringing from embarassment.

[Douglas Gray]

The fact that David Irving is free to go where he likes and express his views, but that Ernest Zundel was virtually kidnapped and sent to Germany for basically the same sort of material, says something about the difference between the U.S. and Germany. Canada's cowardly complicity in this was disappointing.

It is true that when it comes to personal choices, in some respects Europe is less of a Nanny state than here.

[Cesar]

So you're for The Children now Chalupa?

[Brandybuck]

After living in Europe for three years, I heard almost none of those stories.

Since I have heard of zero stories of females tazed and cuffed for walking topless down the street with a beer and a joint, I must conclude that Europe is far more fascist than the US.

[pinko]

Yes Chalupa, there is nothing like a pair of tits to scar children permantently.

Brandybuck, I don't think Europeans use tasers recreationally...that's my whole point.

[Rick Barton]

Michael C. Moynihan:

Irving explains that his views on the Holocaust have "crystallized," and that "The Jews are the architects of their own misfortune."

Oh, so now what's he gonna say? There was a Nazi holocaust after all but it was the fault of Jews??

(Irving echoes the Nazi slogan "Die Juden sind unsere Ungl?ck"-"The Jews are our misfortune"-thought the journalist doesn't seem to notice).

What?? Sounds like different thoughts to me.

...after being imprisoned in Austria (an idiotic decision, of course)

And a hideously unfair decision! Folks should have the right to be wrong in their writings about sensitive topics (somehow, planned genocide usually is a sensitive topic) without fearing criminal prosecution-Shame on the barbarians in the Austrian government!

David Irving:

The Jews are the architects of their own misfortune.

What a nonsensical collectivist statement! Which Jews? Which misfortune? All of them?? In general??

[Rick Barton]

Michael:

Irving echoes the Nazi slogan

Ok, I see what you were pointing out now. Sorry. But perhaps you shoulda said "mimics" instead of "echoes"?

[BakedPenguin]

Hit&Run should be particularly proud.

Not really, Edward. There's nothing dangerous about your bullshit.

[From the article]

[David Irving] says that a document, which he is 80% sure is genuine, suggests that 2.4 million Jews were killed in Poland, but goes on to claim that the gas chamber at Auschwitz was fake. "It was not the centre of the killing operations - it has only become a focus because it is the site that is best preserved. Much of what is shown the tourists there is faked postwar - watchtowers, even the famous gas chamber."

He added: "In my opinion now the real killing operations took place at the Reinhardt camps west of the Bug river. In the three camps here [Sobibor, Belzec, and Treblinka] Heinrich Himmler's men (mostly Ukrainian mercenaries) killed possibly as many as 2.4 million in the two years up to October 1943. There is now nothing to be seen of the Reinhardt camps, neither stick nor stone, so few tourists go there. I have visited all four sites earlier this year."

Pressed as to whether this change undermined his previous stance, Mr Irving replied: "It is a crystallisation of my view." Asked if he now accepts there had been a Holocaust against the Jewish people he said he was "not going to use their trade name". He added: "I do accept that the Nazis quite definitely, that Heinrich Himmler, organised and directed a programme, a clandestine programme, for the liquidation of European Jews ... and that in 1942-43 alone over 2.5 million Jews were killed in those three camps." He added that Hitler was "completely in the dark" about the programme.

[edna]

in most european countries, that herb will land you in jail. austria especially, but austrians as a country do tend to fear freedom more so than most.

and i suspect that being topless on the street (as opposed to the beach) would not be well-received.

jj, this libertarian jew has guns. not that it would do any good if there were institutional pogroms, but it's not like that's gonna happen in the usa. i'd be more worried in europe.

[Nemo Ignotus]

Irving has exactly one redeeming trait-people sitting on Nazi documents will give them to Irving, and he is willing to share them with legitimate historians. (That's one of the reasons why John Keegan used to defend Irving..the other being that Keegan felt that Irving's works gave a very good idea of how the Nazis viewed things.)

He's not a Holocaust denier, though-he just likes to cut the numbers down, and to suggest that his hero Hitler (who Irving said might someday be known as "Hitler the Great" in Hitler's War) wasn't responsible, somehow.

[jj]

Good for you, Edna.

The Jews in, I think it was the Polish Ghetto, held out against the might of the Nazi army for weeks. It can be done, and, I think, should be done more often.

Jon

[Cesar]

Edna, thanks for putting to rest that myth. I have a friend that was under the illusion the devil weed was legal in Canada, but he found out the hard way that no, you can't smoke openly on the streets of Vancouver. I hate it when people confuse Holland with the rest of Europe and/or Canada.

[the king]

Deborah Lipstadt's book about her long court battle with Irving in England (he sued her for libel) is great reading. Irving makes a compellingly creepy villain. He's actually quite brilliant and probably knows more about Nazi-era Germany and WWII than almost anyone on the planet, but he twists and omits facts insidiously and unceasingly to support his pro-Nazi, anti-Jewish viewpoint.

[Patrick]

Cardinal, Matthew:
I did not correct the spelling, I corrected the grammar. In German words have different forms for different genders. "Ungl?ck" is neuter and reqires the form "unser", while in contrast for example the word "Frau" is feminine and reqires the form "unsere". The final e is not silent, but clearly pronounced.

[joe]

Banning Nazi speech and imagery in Europe might have made sense in 1946. But it's been 60 years! WTF, people?

[joe]

One random example, walk down the street in any American city with an open beer, topless if you are a female, and packing some herb for personal use, where it might be found after you're harrassed by cops for the first two things, and then do the same thing in Europe. Notice the difference? Smell the tazed flesh here? Feel the cuffs on your wrists?

I'll be in my bunk.

[TrickyVic]

"""Irving explains that his views on the Holocaust have "crystallized," and that "The Jews are the architects of their own misfortune."

Oh, so now what's he gonna say? There was a Nazi holocaust after all but it was the fault of Jews??""""

Sure, he might say millions of Jew were killed but it wasn't a holocaust. It depends on the definition of holocaust. It's that damn semantics game that's so popular today.

"""The Jews in, I think it was the Polish Ghetto, held out against the might of the Nazi army for weeks. It can be done, and, I think, should be done more often."""

Did the Nazi's end up kicking their ass for that? Maybe it could be done for a while back then but in today's times the Nazi's would have excellent electronic intelligence (bank account transactions, biometric IDs, knowledge of your friends and family members via internet activity, ect) that would put down any resistance with record speed. Think total information awareness.

They would
1. cut your power.
2. cut your water.
3. freeze your bank account
4. place you on a no travel list, with an arrest if encountered notice.
5. video/audio surveillance of your street/neighborhood.

Or maybe they would just lay back and wait to trap you with #s 3, 4, and 5.

It's getting closer to the day that a camera on the street will be able to identify you by your biometerics. More so if the citizens are forced to carry radio enabled identification.

The Hitler's of tomorrow will have far greater informational awareness of the citizens than the original.

[Eric the .5b]

One random example, walk down the street in any American city with an open beer, topless if you are a female, and packing some herb for personal use, where it might be found after you're harrassed by cops for the first two things, and then do the same thing in Europe.

Topless beaches and resorts are one thing, but how many actual European cities of any size allow topless women to wander around in public?

[hro001]

Douglas Gray:

"The fact that David Irving is free to go where he likes and express his views, but that Ernest Zundel was virtually kidnapped and sent to Germany for basically the same sort of material, says something about the difference between the U.S. and Germany. Canada's cowardly complicity in this was disappointing."

You need to get your facts straight. Both Irving and Zundel *chose* to violate the laws of the lands in which they resided or were visiting: Irving in Austria, and Zundel in the US. Whether you or I happen to agree with those laws is immaterial.

Zundel overstayed his visa waiver and was deported to Canada - where he *could* have reclaimed his previous status as a landed immigrant. He *chose* the maximum publicity route of launching a bogus "refugee" claim instead. Consequently, he was extradited to Germany - where he was wanted for violating their laws against Holocaust denial many years earlier.

In Irving's case, he *chose* to visit Austria where he knew there was a warrant for his arrest deriving from *his* violation of Austrian laws some years earlier.

Both Irving and Zundel are the authors not only of scurrilous lies but also of their own misfortunes.

[Rick Barton]

I'm not familiar with the Zundel situation. But your condemnation of Irving for allowing himself to be prosecuted by Austria's barbaric anti-free speech laws is as ridiculous as condemning inter-racial couple who chose to get married and willingly violate various states racist laws.

[Youssef el Khouli]

Why is everyone so mad at this guy, like he's telling the truth or something? Let the man talk and laugh because it's all a hoax right?