Gimme Some of that Placebo Acupuncture Because My Back Is Killing Me
A new study suggests that acupuncture--even fake acupuncture--does a better job of curing back problems than "conventional therapy":
Dr. Michael Haake of the University of Regensburg in Germany looked at 1,162 patients who had experienced chronic low back pain for an average of eight years. They ruled out people with back pain caused by spinal fractures, tumours, scoliosis or pregnancy.
On[e] third of the patients underwent twice a week 30-minute sessions of real acupuncture; another third received fake acupuncture; and the final third received conventional therapy.
The real acupuncture was based on Chinese medicine that targets traditional acupuncture points or meridians. In the fake acupuncture, the needles were not placed as deeply as the real thing and avoided meridian points. Those getting conventional therapy were prescribed a combination of medication, physical therapy and exercise.
After six months, patients were asked about their pain and functional ability. In the real acupuncture group, 47.6 per cent of patients said their condition improved. In the sham acupuncture group, 44.2 per cent did. In the conventional care group, 27.4 per cent described experiencing relief.
Some caveats: It's not clear what "conventional care" consisted of and there doesn't seem to have been a control group that received no treatment either.
reason looked at Harvard's attempts to legitimate complementary and alternative medicine here. and we looked at the bloody crossroads where chiropractors and the Federal Trade Commission collided here.
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Stone Age medicine is Stone Age medicine. People are taken in by that naturally wise look the Chinese have.
Some caveats: It's not clear what "conventional care" consisted of and there doesn't seem to have been a control group that received no treatment either.
nuff said.
The real acupuncture was based on Chinese medicine that targets traditional acupuncture points or meridians.
And of course that makes it real.
It would have made a much more interesting study if some of the subjects got "real" accupuncture and the others got Calgon.
If somebody's gonna stick needles in me to relieve pain, all I can say is there better be morphine in them.
Back pain (and pain management in general) can be notoriously nebulous malady to treat. Placebos and interestingly enough, outright quacks, often have good records for treatment. Unfortunately, this doesn't make it any better science.
As one who has found relief from debilitating back pain, I have just two words:
Sleep Number
And yet, almost half the participants reported that it worked.
This suggests to me that much of the back pain people have has a psychological, rather than biological, cause.
This suggests to me that much of the back pain people have has a psychological, rather than biological, cause.
Possibly stress related. I know that when I get tense, my neck can bother me a lot, and my lower back. Chilling out tends to make it better. Morphine is even better.
As one wise doctor said, "All treatments ride to glory on the innate healing power of the body."
What often happens is that the body gets better on its own, while the treatments are taking place., so they get credit for helping, and the healing professional gets paid.
Without a healthy dose of "after that, therefore because of that" logic, the healing arts might well take in a lot less revenue.
There is actually a method of injecting small amounts of pain killer into the meridian points that is said to be effective.
The best money I ever spent (and it was a lot!) was for a Tempurpedic 10" mattress and the funky pillows.
With that kind of endorsement, I think I deserve some sort of quid pro quo from them. A Swedish bikini model would do nicely.
It's not surprising that poking people with needles provides relief from pain... It feels so good when you stop.
I'll be here all week.
In the real acupuncture group, 47.6 per cent of patients said their condition improved. In the sham acupuncture group, 44.2 per cent did. In the conventional care group, 27.4 per cent described experiencing relief.
In related news, chiropracters are still in business!
Chilling out tends to make it better. Morphine is even better.
Episiarch, for almost anything, morphine is better.
Episiarch, for almost anything, morphine is better.
Morphine. With a Demerol chaser.
Isn't that George Harrison? Does acupuncture also give one Beatles-like wealth? Hmmmm.
Pro-Libertate, yes, but all that wealth is hidden in an Octopus's Garden.
Acupuncture makes you die before that asshat Paul McCartney, so what good can it be?
Caption Contest!
"Hey, gimme a glass of water. I know a trick!"
"OOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!"
Ah, goo goo g'joob.
Caption contest?
My sweet Lord, get these fuckin' needles out of my face!
I rely on Jesus for my healing.
My ad hoc, intuitive, unscientific explanation is that while the "conventional" patients had to do some work (exercise, therapy) whereas placebo patients were getting Magic, compliance with therapy was less than 100% and that caused a real and imagined decrease in results (people who cheated knew who they were).
Magic has no compliance problems.
The key finding to this study is not that acupuncture works better than conventional treatments but that real-acupuncture only produces better results than fake-acupuncture in 3.4% of the cases. That means that only 7% of those reporting improvement following any acupuncture could be attributed to real-acupuncture, the remaining 93% of those reporting improvement is attributed to the placebo effect.
So if we took these findings literally, we could expect that off every 100 patients treated by acupuncture 7 would experience improvement due to something altered in their bodies, 44 would experience improvement due to placebo effect and 49 would experience no improvement at all. Its easy to see why acupuncturist stay in business: 51 out of every 100 customers walks away feeling better.
Conventional therapies by contrast can't count their success due to placebo effect. Most conventional therapies won't be accepted unless they show an effect at least 2 times as strong as the placebo (so a placebo would help say 10 people out of 100 and the therapy would help 20+).
So, according to this report, this study actually shows that conventional therapy is at least twice as effective as real-acupuncture.
Science reporting sucks.
Caption Contest:
Hey, French HBO!
What pisses me off (and this is the second time the media has done this on two...TWO separate acupuncture studies) is that the headline brays: "Study: Acupuncture works!!!"
Then in the first goddamned paragraph, they demurely report that lying on a table, listening to Windham Hill cd's and having needles stuck in your body-- anywhere in your body, screw traditional meridian points-- does wonders for hard-to-pin-down maladies such as neck or back pain, or smoking cessation.
Sorry for the cheap-assed plug, but it's been covered before.
Caption:
BETTER THAN ACCUTANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'Cause I've got the tacks, man,
Yeah, I've got the tacks, man.
Caption Contest
And whatever you do, never sneak up behind a porcupine and go BUBBUBBUBBUB!
So, since acupuncture is basically just a fancy placebo, would the healing effect drop off for people who realized it was a placebo? That it was in effect faith that made them feel better?
Would it be too much of a threadjack to correlate this to biblical accounts of healing based on faith?
PROLEFEED,
THREADJACK? NOT AT ALL. MORTAL SIN? YES! BURN IN ETERNAL PAIN IN THE HELL OF FACIAL NEEDLES!
There is a lot of interesting research on the Placebo effect that might weaken Shannon Love's interpretation of the results here...an example...
BMJ 2005;330:1202-1205 (21 May), doi:10.1136/bmj.330.7501.1202
Education and debate
Characteristic and incidental (placebo) effects in complex interventions such as acupuncture
Charlotte Paterson,
Paul Dieppe
The specific effects of non-pharmaceutical treatments are not always divisible from placebo effects and may be missed in randomised trials
The first 150 words of the full text of this article appear below.
Introduction
The randomised double blind controlled trial has proved an invaluable tool for testing the efficacy of new drugs. However, it is now used to evaluate complex non-pharmaceutical interventions, many of which are based on different therapeutic theories. For example, randomised controlled trials are used to test physiotherapy, a complex intervention with a basis in biomedical theory, and acupuncture, which is often based on Chinese medicine. In order to use a placebo or sham controlled design, an intervention has to be divided into characteristic (specific) and incidental (placebo, non-specific) elements. However, recent research suggests that it is not meaningful to split complex interventions into characteristic and incidental elements. Elements that are categorised as incidental in drug trials may be integral to non-pharmaceutical interventions. If this is true, the use of placebo or sham controlled trial designs in evaluating complex non-pharmaceutical interventions may generate false negative results.
Another interesting article
Placebo-Induced Changes in fMRI in the Anticipation and Experience of Pain
Tor D. Wager,1*{dagger} James K. Rilling,2 Edward E. Smith,1 Alex Sokolik,3 Kenneth L. Casey,3 Richard J. Davidson,4 Stephen M. Kosslyn,5 Robert M. Rose,6 Jonathan D. Cohen2,7
The experience of pain arises from both physiological and psychological factors, including one's beliefs and expectations. Thus, placebo treatments that have no intrinsic pharmacological effects may produce analgesia by altering expectations. However, controversy exists regarding whether placebos alter sensory pain transmission, pain affect, or simply produce compliance with the suggestions of investigators. In two functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) experiments, we found that placebo analgesia was related to decreased brain activity in pain-sensitive brain regions, including the thalamus, insula, and anterior cingulate cortex, and was associated with increased activity during anticipation of pain in the prefrontal cortex, providing evidence that placebos alter the experience of pain.
I don't think "fake acupuncture" is a placebo. I'm fairly sure sticking needles in your flesh will stimulate the release of endorphins. My guess is it is more effective than sugar pills.
There is a reason the randomized double blind controlled study is the gold standard. It tells you what you need to know. Absent that set of criteria or, in a nod to Kerry's piece from last month, something sufficiently statistically rigorous, you have nothing. Witchcraft.
That's a good question, prolefeed.
The know that, in a blind study, there was a 3% greater effect for real acupuncture.
They could do another test where they tell people that they're getting fake acupuncture, and measure exactly how much the reports of success drop.
Or, they could tell half the control group they were getting fake acupuncture, and tell the other half that the previous study showed that accupuncture worked even withjout poking the the pressure points, and see how much the two groups differ.
I had to go to an acupuncturist last year. It did wonders for my out-of-balance humours. The follow-up treatment with leaches help stabilize the situation.
If Chinese acupuncture works so well, how about Scottish ach-u-puncture? It uses swords instead of needles.
Elements that are categorised as incidental in drug trials may be integral to non-pharmaceutical interventions.
Preeeeeeeecisely, Neu Mejican.
Lying on a table, relaxing, listening to Windham Hill cd's, for instance IS probably effective in reducing one's back pain. The fact that needles are being stuck in your body is merely incidental to the treatment.
Unfortunately, it is the acupuncturis who is hoisted by his own petard on this study. Acupuncturists go to school for years to stick needs in the correct points.
A true believer of acupuncture believes that you could "make the cats really big, or something" if you hit the wrong points. See where I'm going with this?
If Chinese acupuncture works so well, how about Scottish ach-u-puncture? It uses swords instead of needles.
According to a loose reading of the study, yes.
Here's the subtext of an older NPR story on a different acupuncture study that had similar findings:
It's an audio story found here.
Ah, och-u-puncture. That's analogous to Scottish ach-u-puncture. Except the Germans use hundreds of pickelhaubes, rather than swords or needles.
What is the procedure for Black-u-puncture?
Ah, och-u-puncture.
Gezundheidt!
What is the procedure for Black-u-puncture?
This.
In related news, chiropracters are still in business!
Well you can't get a health insurance policy in most(all?) States that doesn't pay them.
Placebos and interestingly enough, outright quacks, often have good records for treatment. Unfortunately, this doesn't make it any better science.
Medicine is not science. Patients should be free to chose whatever treatment they want regardless of whether it passes the "peer reviewed, controlled double-blind study test".
I should also be free to not pay into an insurance pool(or socialized medecine scheme) that covers crap I don't want.
Holy Crap, we just had a big fargin' earthquake and I lost my entire comment. I bet that was a 5 and it was near here. My dogs ran like crazy. Fortuantely, my house foundation is attached to granite with rebar held in place with expoxy.
A study conducted at my house concluded that judicious consumption of red wine can help manage joint pain better than aspirin or motrin.
A former love of my life ultimately became a practicing acupuncturist (I wasn't surprised). She was a sweet young thing and one of few nice looking libertarian babes (they were rare back then). Also a Christian who believed in reincarnation (not snakes come back as cats but you keep recycling til you are good enough to stay upstairs), so you see why I wasn't surprised at the acupuncture connection.
She once dragged me off to this rickety old woman who read my hand and predicted I'd marry Mrs TWC. I don't even buy that stuff but she was surprisingly prescient with compelling details including the two blond kids.
Naturally, I figured she meant Miss Debbie the future acupuncturist so when we split I chalked it up to psychic fraud.
Then 15 years later I met Mrs TWC and said, whoa......But we weren't planning any kids except ten years later we had the blond kids, in the order predicted with the same age spread. There was more.
Cue Rod Surly courtesy of NoStar
Janis Siegel has got to be a libertarian. Dude, she's wearing a tinfoil hat.
The earthquake was only a 3.9 but it was only about ten miles from here. About a block from my sister Mo's house.
My dogs ran like crazy.
I have some sharp, pointy things that can get their chi back in order.
TWC: Was this it?
Paul, yes, that was the EQ. 🙂
And speaking of my sister Mo, Our Mo jumps out of aircraft down there by my sister Mo's house.
FIFTEEN YEARS LATER? You're not that old sweetheart. But, Debbie is OLDER than I am by considerable. 🙂
Sometimes George sang songs with out needles stuck in his face. Here he is singing "I'm Happy Just To Dance With You" with his good friends, the other Beatles!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l1mtTxLHBs
Actually what this study shows is that sticking needles in your flesh can ease back pain. In both the real and fake acupuncture they were sticking needles into the patients, it's just the details that varied.
I don't know what constitutes "conventional therapy" but I have had my lower back realigned by a therapist using the McKenzie Method and not only did it help with pain, but I am much more flexible as a result.
http://www.mckenziemdt.org/
It is basically a series of intense stretches that a good therapist can use to diagnose and then get your back into proper alignment.
One aspect this study does not take into account is the *degree* of relief that was found.
Purely anecdotal but what the heck. Acupuncture has worked for me for some maladies and for others, not at all, and for some conditions just a little. If only the placebo effect was at work shouldn't I have experienced the same results each time?
Additionally, I think I read another study that found that acupuncture was only effective for a select group of conditions.
Caption: HELLRAISER: The Fab Years!
Actually what this study shows is that sticking needles in your flesh can ease back pain. In both the real and fake acupuncture they were sticking needles into the patients, it's just the details that varied.
True... depending on how you define "details". In a study on heart disease, drug x reduced the liklihood of heart attack by 18%, those with sugar pills saw a 15% reduction in probability.
If we ever saw a study like this, we'd immediately start asking "what else was going on in the control group"?
And besides, sticking needles in the wrong place is something that people who spent a lot of money and years of their life studying at Bastyr University would tell you is a little bit more than just "details".
the needle:
If only the placebo effect was at work shouldn't I have experienced the same results each time?
No. Different maladies will respond to psychological factors differently. Neck pain, for instance will respond differently than smoking cessation, two things that acupunture has shown to help with in studies.
For instance, some people might respond to a sugar pill for a birth control study. Does that mean the sugar pill should be used for birth control?
half serious question: What do they give diabetics in the placebo group?
Boy, for a bunch of libertarians, you sure are against people having their pain aleviated by a mathod you don't like.
You guys are annoying. The acupuncture works for someone -- if it feels good, do it.
in a blind study, there was a 3% greater effect for real acupuncture.
error bars not calculated. probably an insignificant difference.
half serious question: What do they give diabetics in the placebo group?
That's a thread winner. Or at least worth a chortle.
Answer: Splenda Pills
Real Answer: I dunno
The acupuncture works for someone -- if it feels good, do it.
Well, acupuncture certainly has less calories than red wine. Haven't tried the needle but red wine is pretty effective at alleviating aches and pains. Often cures the snarks as well.
The least she could have done was change my name back when she was done. [pouts]
Boy, for a bunch of libertarians, you sure are against people having their pain aleviated by a mathod you don't like.
Look, think of it like public transit, I love acupuncture, but for other people.
But seriously, as a libertarian, I don't care if someone pays out of pocket for their sugar pills. What I don't like is fraud.
Now, I'll admit that when it comes to acupuncture, outright fraud is a difficult charge, especially when both practitioner and patient believe in the efficacy. But also as a libertarian, I reserve the right to make fun of anything I want as long as it's not a political candidate sixty days before an election lest my speech be declared "money".
I watched the needle take another man.
Gone, gone, the damage done.
pain alleviation via method I like:
GET OUT, VOTEJOE. GET OUT. GO AWAY!
ahhhh. much better.
If "conventional" treatment is anything like what i've seen lately, it was probably a Tylenole every twelve hours and then half a Percocet if you're still screaming and rearing like a sea lion; I'm not surprised it does twice as much good to distract them by waving shiny gold pins at them. It can't be much worse than doing nothing, which is the approximate amount of pain treatment most patients can expect now.
Here's a pretty good takedown of the study and the poor reporting on it.
If only the placebo effect was at work shouldn't I have experienced the same results each time?
-No. Different maladies will respond to psychological factors differently. Neck pain, for instance will respond differently than smoking cessation, two things that acupunture has shown to help with in studies.-
This assumes that the maladies I had corresponded to the maladies supposedly more susceptible to suggestibility. Actually, one malady I sought treatment for was bronchial colds, which I usually get in the winter and which for me can sometimes last up to a month. But possibly, some acupuncture treatments were able to push this out very quickly (increasing circulation perhaps, improving immune function). Other acupuncture treatments didn't help me a bit there. So, I doubt suggestibility is the only thing going on.
It is obvious that many of you are unaware of the science of acupuncture from the viewpoint of those who study, practice and recieve acupuncture treatments. You believe that placebo is the only riding factor, or that endorphins are the only acting agent involved. Yet that does not explain the long-term results in the treatment of patients, nor the treatments patients recieve in regulating the menses, clearing skin diseases, helping their nerve fibers regrow or other greater treatments unknown by the general public. One of you stated that "placebo based blind testing is the gold standar" but I must remind you that surgery never gets that type of testing. Except most recently in knee surgeries where there was still a 30% "placebo" effectiveness.
The fact that needles were inserted more shallowly (which is actually a Japanese style of acupuncture) does not constitute "Fake" acupuncture. The fact that points are "not traditional" does not mean points are not on the extra network of meridian studies practiced by Japanese, 5-Element, Toyohari or other acupuncture professionals as proper points for treatment.
Placebo, by definition means "inactive" and therefore there is no such thing as placebo acupuncture, because sticking needles into someone will do SOMETHING. Especially in the light of the fact that "western science" has absolutly no concept of why acupuncture works. Distal points on the ankle have shown through MRI to affect the vision, yet there is no nerve link from the ankle to the visual cortex - how does this work? Meridian therapy explains, but western science cannot. Just because one doesn't speak the language doesn't mean the speaker is an idiot.
Learn more of what this science of acupuncture is from it's own theory, ideals, mechanisms and history instead of trying to squeeze it into your own limited minds. Quantum physics is the science of today, but western medicine has not grasped it yet - Chinese medicine has been practicing it for centuries.
I think I also need to remind the viewers that acupuncture works on animals - where is their sense of placebo?? How would they "believe" that getting stuck with needles would relieve their conditions?? Animal acupuncture is one of the finest examples of how acupuncture itself works, not a belief that it works.
Phranque,
It's a classic case of the tail wagging the dog. Western science true believers declare that the only path to truth or solid evidence for their theories is through the method they have selected. But this is circular reasoning. They're stuck in a box and don't know it.
As an acupuncturist and massage therapist who works with patients dealing with pain in general and back pain specifically, I have my own opinion of why "fake" acupuncture would work as well as real acupuncture. The simple truth is, it doesn't matter where you put a needle in the body because the body is covered with acupuncture points. So, as long as your intention is to relieve the pain, the treatment will help. Now, there is no denying that the right points will have more immediate relief than just random points. But by touching the body, whether through acupressure or a needle, we have an affect on the clients energy. And sometimes the client just needs the attention that we, as practitioners, give the client through our treatment.