Fred (Or Is It "Freddie"?) Thompson on Wikipedia

How's Wikipedia handling Fred Thompson's candidacy?:

The most contentious dispute of all -- at least last week -- was over Fred Thompson's proper name: Is it Freddie, the name he was born with? Or Fred, as he's called now?

'Freddie' makes Thompson sound ridiculous," a user argued. "It's not about making Thompson look silly," another responded. "It's about having accurate information."…

Thompson's "talk page" is the busiest of the candidate pages, primarily because of two topics: how to address the 25-year age difference between Thompson and his wife, Jeri, and the Sept. 6 Los Angeles Times article that said Thompson's birth name was Freddie.

[Wikipedia editor] Tvoz insists that the article should begin with "Freddie Dalton 'Fred' Thompson." [Editor] Ferrylodge argues that it should be "Fred Dalton Thompson (born Freddie Dalton Thompson)."

Ferrylodge said with a sigh: "We're still waiting for a consensus."

One campaign staffer was foolhardily bitchy about the Freddie imbroglio:

"I'm pretty sure the people debating 'Fred' versus 'Freddie' are the same people who debate whether or not Britney Spears looked too fat at the MTV music awards," said Karen Hanretty, who is working for the Thompson campaign. "Seriously, how many hours do these editors spend on the site?"

Stay tuned for a none-too-flattering--and probably short-lived--Wikipedia entry on Karen Hanretty.

While you're waiting for the great Fred/Freddie debate of 2007 to be resolved, check out my piece on Wikipedia from the June issue.

Comments

[J sub D]

I don't care if he wants to call himself Oshtron, Earth's Greatest Defender. It does say alot about Wikipedia though.

[Jose Ortega y Gasset]

Foolhardily bitchy? If I had to put up with the shit on the campaign trail (including Wiki pedants), I'd go full blown postal. My compliments to Hanretty for not capping someone with a shotgun.

[The Artist Fromerly Known as T]

"...how to address the 25-year age difference between Thompson and his wife, Jeri,..."

Me personally, I'd congradulate him.

[ed]

I'll have to side with "bitchy" Karen on this one.

[K.]

"...how to address the 25-year age difference between Thompson and his wife, Jeri,..."

The Economist of sept 1 has an article about old men + young women: Here it is.

[TLB]

That's definitely a long article, and I used the page down key *a lot*.

So, perhaps I missed the part where KMW mentioned the reason why *nothing* in WP can be trusted: unless you're familiar with a topic you don't know what's missing.

I'm compiling a list of WP's problem entries at this new site, although I need to add much more to it. I also came up with code to let me link to WP using Javascript so it isn't picked up by search engines: I'm not even willing to trust that nofollow would work.

Which brings up another point. One of the reasons why WP has been successful is because so many people have linked to it, in some cases using people's names to link to their entries and the like. That - together with perhaps hand-editing - drives them up in the search results. And, because they appear so high and because their entries are so faulty, that makes them a perfect disinformation tool.

[Freddiepoo Squezzycheeks]

Who the fuck names their kid "Freddie"?

Life will automatically stick the "die" part on there for you.

[ed]

Who the fuck names their kid "Freddie"?

Mr. and Mrs. Freeloader, for two.

[Rimfax]

What Karen Hanretty and others don't seem to get in this "just get a life" backhand slap is that the only reason that the Wikipedia is good enough to make fun of is because of this enormous number of amateur editors and researchers who take these articles very seriously. Even bike shedding problems like which name should be in bold at the head of the article is a real issue to be debated seriously. (Alternative names are handled by redirects, so it's not that big of an ergonomics issue. It is purely an issue of encyclopedic accuracy. Which name is more "accurate"?)

Often these debates are exercises in wearing away the biases of those with a vested interest in making the subject look better or worse.

[Matt J]

What debate? She was too fat.

[Jose Ortega y Gasset]

The entire country knows the guy as Fred Thompson. If someone wants to get their underwear in a wad over the name on his birth certificate, asterisk the name and drop the "real" name in a footnote.

And really... the only reasons to think Wiki is impressive is that is 1) big; 2) free.

[dj hojo]

@Rimfax:
These debates only serve to further the biases of the editors themselves. There is a Stalinistic approach to all of this and it is a shame that Reason has given wikipedia a voice.

[Sam McManus]

I think the rule is to call them by the name they are best known as, which in this case would definitely be "Fred."

[joe]

From the Wiki page on the 39th President:

James Earl "Jimmy" Carter, Jr. (born October 1, 1924(1924-10-01)), was the thirty-ninth President of the United States from

This isn't hard. There is a long-recognize, standardized way to write someone's name, including nickname, in a reference text.

[joe]

From the page on the 42nd President:

William Jefferson "Bill" Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe III[1] on August 19, 1946) was the forty-second President of the United States, serving from 1993 to 2001.

[joe]

Edward Moore (Ted) Kennedy (born February 22, 1932) is the senior United States Senator from Massachusetts and a member of the Democratic Party.[1]

[Rickey Ramone]

Fred (Or Is It "Freddie"?)

Maybe he's a Ramones fan.

Rick Barton
(commenting with my Friday Fun Link screen name)

[Tommy_Grand]

Something funny about Britney Spears:

Like many successful men my age, most of the women I date are about the same age as Ms. Spears, meaning they're slightly too old to have been fans (BS's fan base = girls about 4-7 years younger). These gals grew up hating britney & jealous of the attention their male classmates lavished on the former "pop princess." Until this month, they considered her a no-talent airhead, a bleach blond, fake-boobed druggie, a terrible mother, a nutcase, etc etc.

But now many have changed sides. Why? Because some men called Britney "fat." Don't men know she's had two children? Don't men understand she's been through a divorce? Don't men understand she's not a teenager anymore? Can't men appreciate that real women have curves? Why, no woman could be blamed for filling out a little at her age.... or do you want her to have an eating disorder? Why cant we judge her on her music????

[mitch]

joe,

Check out the Grant page: "Ulysses S. Grant,[2] born Hiram Ulysses Grant (April 27, 1822 - July 23, 1885), was an..."

and the Jack Benny page: "Jack Benny (February 14, 1894 in Chicago, Illinois - December 26, 1974 in Beverly Hills, California), born Benjamin Kubelsky, was an American comedian..."

Is "Fred" just Thompson's nickname, like Carter's or Clinton's, or is it more of a name change, or a professional name, like Grant's or Benny's?

[Rickey Ramone]

Anyone else remember Freddie and the Dreamers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XW3AiUk9yQ&mode=related&search=

I danced the Freddie in 7th grade:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rt4VSKvU8Q

[Jim Bob]

How about "Non-factor" Thompson?

[joshua corning]

I want someone here to now say something really stupid...like:

"If you think there is something wrong with Wikipedia you should fix it yourself rather than criticizing it."

That would be fucking great.

Cuz we all know how fun it would be to form a consensus with that particular group of idiot-savants.

[S.A. Miller]

This is just like how Wikipedia editors kept changing the name of the article from "George Allen (U.S. politician)" to "George Felix Allen" even though Allen never identifies him self as Felix or F.

Why? So that they could emphasize that he had a Jewish grandfather. Because you know those Rednecks in VA won't vote for someone with a drop of Jew blood in them.

Anything on Wikipedia dealing with contemporary politics is a joke. Any article on a Democrat is nearly hagiographic, and any article on a Republican has nearly 3/4 of it being criticism.

[Rick H.]

Hey, there's always Conservapedia for those who don't like reality's liberal bias.

[Jon]

Wikipedia also lists John Edwards's birthname as "Johnny."

[joe]

Mitch,

The two examples you give provide the correct, formal name, in the case of someone changing his name. So does my "William Jefferon (Bill) Clinton (born William Jefferson Blythe) example."

In both cases, they are calling the subject by his correct, formal name, and putting his nickname in parenthesis.

SA Miller,

Felix is a Latin name. It was also my Irish father's middle name. It is also - wait for it - George Allen's middle name. Paranoid much?

[Mo]

This is just like how Wikipedia editors kept changing the name of the article from "George Allen (U.S. politician)" to "George Felix Allen" even though Allen never identifies him self as Felix or F.

Why? So that they could emphasize that he had a Jewish grandfather. Because you know those Rednecks in VA won't vote for someone with a drop of Jew blood in them.

Anything on Wikipedia dealing with contemporary politics is a joke. Any article on a Democrat is nearly hagiographic, and any article on a Republican has nearly 3/4 of it being criticism.

Yet it still lists Obama's middle name as Hussein, even though it would presumably hurt him. Damn those liberal facts.

[S.A. Miller]

Joe,

I know that Felix is not a "Jewish Name."

That is not the point. Wikipedia's article naming policy for people is that the article be named, if possible, by what they are commonly known as.

George Allen never identifies himself as "George F. Allen" or "George Felix Allen" yet some editors kept changing the same of the article to that.

Now that Allen has lost to Webb there is only a small section of his article entitled "Mother's religious and ethnic background" but during the election there was a massive section with all kinds of speculation about his Jewish heritage and so forth. Always tying his middle name to his Jewish grandfather's name.

Am I trying to say this was convincing? No. It was very lame. But the point is that there was a very active attempt to slant the wikipedia article to imply that Allen was a Jew.

You can look through the article's history or talk page if you don't believe me.

(Make sure you check out the part where they are trying to decide if they should put "Senator Macacawitz" in the article, and tell me I am paranoid.)

[S.A. Miller]

Yet it still lists Obama's middle name as Hussein, even though it would presumably hurt him. Damn those liberal facts.

Apparently you can't read. What is the title of Obama's article? "Barack Obama" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Not Barack Hussein Obama. Why? Because Obama does not identify himself as Barack Hussein Obama.

Is this silly? Yes. But this is the kind of nonsense that goes on, on Wikipedia.

[Tvoz]

Thanks, Joe, you explained exactly what I (and others) argued. It was always just a matter of attempting to get some consistency and to follow the very loose standards that exist in Wikipedia. Johnny Reid "John" Edwards was the best example of a similar situation to Fred Thompson, and that's the way numerous editors thought the name should be rendered, unless some evidence was found regarding a legal name change. None of this is important - and I didn't and don't care if it makes the subject look "silly" - but if you're creating an encyclopedia that the world is going to take potshots at, you ought to try to have some standards. As for Karen Hanretty - as I say on my "user" page - the Britney analogy is lame, and wrong to boot. I'd suggest to her that she spend more time worrying about how her candidate communicates and less time worrying about his Wikipedia entry. Because b follows from a, and we're watching.

PS To S.A. Miller: the article title is the name most commonly used, in Thompson and Obama, and just about all others. The first words of the article are supposed to give the subject's full name, regardless of how he or she self-identifies. It's an encyclopedia - that's how it's done. This is neither complicated nor nonsensical - and when vandals change it for their own twisted or partisan reasons, there are many editors available to change it back.