Sex

Strippers Take to the Streets

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dancers for democracy

Strippers head out to get signatures, under the banner of Dancers for Democracy:

COLUMBUS — Strip club dancers covered Capitol Square today, gathering voter signatures to repeal a new state ban on touching patrons. The law takes effect Sept. 4….

"I'll have to go and see my constituents," [state senator Eric] Kearney joked when he learned two dancers were from the Deja Vu Showgirls strip club in Mount Carmel.Pamela Ackerman, 24, of Cincinnati and Jennifer Shafer, 22, of Boone County, Ky., were working Third and State streets, easily averaging a signature per minute.

Both dancers, who are paying their way through community college, said the new restrictions were hurt them financially.

Meanwhile, Wendy Shalit, of Return to Modesty fame, is back on the prowl. She has a new book out full of here-come-the-prostitots hysteria (chronicled with enormous and well-placed disdain by Kerry Howley). But how can she complain about politically engaged role-models like these young ladies?

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  1. Strippers are stupid. Yeah, they are.

  2. This proves that, no matter how libertarian a guy can get, organized labor isn’t always bad.

  3. Ohioans are stupid. Yeah, they are.

    For an example, just read the comments in this a and the petition signature drive.

    It should be noted that the Citizens for Community Values is led by an admitted ‘former sex addict.’

  4. *in this article about the petition signature drive. The blog ate part of my last comment.

  5. For an example, just read the comments in this a and the petition signature drive.

    Off topic, but why the hell do sites with comment threads set them up so that the first comment is on the bottom and the newest are on the top? I hate sites like that.

  6. Burress pointed out that even under the new law, strip clubs can continue to operate 18 hours a day. “What the other side is doing is pushing these girls out front with these (economic) sob stories.”

    You heartless libertarians! Where’s your pity for all the embarrassing boners men will suffer because these ruthless bitches want college degrees?

  7. Girls who are putting themselves through college by performing in strip clubs are out petitioning so they can continue to touch their … um … audience. Seems to me that the touching aspect converts those audience members into clients … and moves away from performance art and into some mild form of prostitution.

    I mean, apparently those girls couldn’t put themselves through college with what they would earn in a non-touching environment, so they are arguing for a touching environment so they can meet their nut? Their logic implies that they would make even more money for college if there were some form of (asexual) penetration, and still more for hardcore engagement, so why not git out there and petition for that?

    I guess the line has to be drawn somewhere …

  8. “Dancers for Democracy” is a stupid name for this group. Democracy is the reason there’s a law prohibiting touching in the first place.

  9. “I think strippers should be role models for little girls…if only for the fact that they wax their assholes. I don’t have the balls to wax my asshole. The closest I ever came to waxing my asshole was I got it washed and styled once.”

  10. James,

    You are apparently unfamiliar with the common practice known as a “lap dance” for which strippers can charge a ridiculous amount per dance (which lasts all of a song or so) and can be performed again and again and again. Without touching there is no lap dance, merely stripping which may, or may not, result in modest tips – especially if the ladies have to remain on stage.

    But let us assume that lad dances come close to prostitution. So what? Prostitution should be legal.

  11. Both dancers, who are paying their way through community college, said the new restrictions were hurt them financially.

    Isn’t this just a given with strippers? Every stripper, in every strip club, in every city I have every visited was stripping to pay her way through college.

  12. My first and only time at a strip club was before my wedding.To me it was like ordering a steak at Out Back and watching someone else eat it.

  13. According to the article, in addition to the no-touching rule the law would enforce no nude or partially nude dancing between midnight and 6am. I could see how this would put a major crimp into their operations (after midnight is one of the busiest times) and sounds like it’s designed to do just that, rather than any legitimate reason. (“Look, you still have 18 hours a day! We’re not stopping you from the breakfast crowd business….)

  14. MP,

    That must have been a good club. Most of them are like ordering a Big Mac and watching someone else eat it.

  15. “Strip club dancers covered Capitol Square today” Damn I should have gone into politics!

    I agree with Garth, while lap dances are not prostitution, so what if they were? Both should be legal. No one is forcing you or I to get one (except for the impersonal force that is heterosexuality) or the girl to give one.

  16. Gimme/Michael P –

    And CS Lewis must have gone to the best:

    You can get a large audience together for a strip-tease act-that is, to watch a girl undress on the stage. Now suppose you came to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see, just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon…

  17. As a former stripper, I can vouch for the fact that lap dances are where the cash is made. Stage time is simply an advertisement. Lap dances are more fun for the stripper and the customer in areas where some touching is allowed. Touching does not mean handjob, but as someone else already said, so what if it did.

    My stripping career was pretty short but I started waiting tables in a club because I wanted to go back to school. When I saw that I could make in a night dancing what I made in a week at a 9-5, I drank liquid courage (tequila) and got on stage. If I knew then what I know now about money, I would have worked double shifts everyday until nobody was paying to see me. Instead, I worked on a PRN basis.

  18. Oh. “Lap dances.” I get it now. So this is really about banning “lap dances”? I mean, what other touching goes on at these places where girls get to both pay for college (presumably not liberal arts) and grind their (I assume covered) privates on some guy’s crotch in a bar for money while perpetuating a vile stereotype? Amazing. I appreciate the defense of personal freedom, but arguing FOR “touching” in this context seems awfully artless. I guess I’m an old fuddy-duddy …

  19. Just a thought … if “touching” went unregulated, how many strip club managers do you think would start to include more than lap dancing in their dancer requirements? And please reassure me that the privates ARE, in fact, covered … please …

  20. Damn! I can’t believe I missed it. I’m right in downtown Columbus, but didn’t go out at lunch. . . .

    And for REAL joy, I got a recorded-voice “poll” from our unlamented ex-Secretary of State mentioning the anti-stripping-law petition and asking whether I supported “protecting children and families” by fighting against the petition. I wonder what I might have been told if I had lied and said yes?

    Isn’t this just a given with strippers? Every stripper, in every strip club, in every city I have every visited was stripping to pay her way through college.
    According to my brother, the one in Nevada that he really liked was stripping to pay off a $350,000 home mortgage in an incredibly short amount of time.

  21. “And please reassure me that the privates ARE, in fact, covered … please …”
    Jesus James you are indeed quite the old fuddy duddy! You do know we all came out of privates don’t you? And they weren’t covered…

  22. Every stripper, in every strip club, in every city I have every visited was stripping to pay her way through college.

    I’m sure I can’t match your level of, er, experience, but are you sure they really were paying their way through college or were they just saying that?

  23. “Dancers for Democracy” is a stupid name for this group.

    I dunno, “Dancers for Frottage” just isn’t as catchy.

  24. You do know we all came out of privates don’t you? And they weren’t covered…

    There goes my lunch. My mom. Giving birth. While lap dancing. Urp.
    I will semi-quietly withdraw to the bathroom, now.

    (PS: Sounds like the money’s pretty good! I’m gonna enroll my kids in classes ASAP!)

  25. Just a thought … if “touching” went unregulated, how many strip club managers do you think would start to include more than lap dancing in their dancer requirements?

    Yes, and women would then be forced to take jobs at such clubs! Perpetuating vile stereotypes! Artlessly grinding their uncovered privates! Clearly, government needs to step in.

  26. “Oh. “Lap dances.” I get it now. So this is really about banning “lap dances”? I mean, what other touching goes on at these places where girls get to both pay for college (presumably not liberal arts) and grind their (I assume covered) privates on some guy’s crotch in a bar for money while perpetuating a vile stereotype? Amazing. I appreciate the defense of personal freedom, but arguing FOR “touching” in this context seems awfully artless. I guess I’m an old fuddy-duddy …”

    I bathed my arms, up to the elbows, in foul, wretched mixtures of half eaten food, human saliva, gristle and snotty kleenexes SANS GLOVES for 3.35 an hour when I was a kid. I would give anything to be attractive enough to have people want to throw hundreds, and thousands of dollars at me for shaking my body in front of them. There’s nothing wrong with nudity, or prostitution, unless you’re a repressed, anti-sex throwback from the american taliban who wants to make sure that no one can see those dirty, DIRTY bodyparts that everyone has but some people have better shaped.

    When sex is as open and as free as smiles we’ll find see the near-utopia humans are capable of. Murders will be an anomoly, and rapes will be shockingly rare.

  27. Government has already stepped in …

    The fact is, “touching”, short of intercourse or oral sex or hand jobs, is already allowed in most states … the trick … pardon the pun … is that the environment must be a “private party”. In other words, the chick-as-sex-hole that “performs” at a “private party” (no general admission) can stick licorice up her privates and let the bridegroom-to-be munch it out while she squats over his face, but in a “public” environment, like a “strip” club, she can only run around nude, at most. (I can provide legal references, however it would be insulting, amid this group of Internet familiars.)

    How about this compromise, already supported by existing law:

    If you ladies want to make the big bucks getting naked for guys that enjoy your subjugation to the prevailing stereotype (and don’t gimme that “empowerment” crap … waaaaay too selfish to make a satisfying argument), then join an outfit where you get shuttled around to “private parties” by a jamoke with a .38 in his fanny pack to protect you from the extreme gropers, and don’t expect your neighborhood “strip” joint to put you through college.

    Damn. I’m agreeing with the 1st comment, more and more.

    @Frank Booth

    I couldn’t agree more … but this isn’t about the beautiful utopia of sex and freedom that you describe … it’s about power and money. There ain’t no flower children stripping in Cleveland.

  28. Frank Booth,

    I wanted to write a joke post complaining about American Puritanism and comparing it to a Muslim theocracy, but I see you beat me to it. The difference is, you didn’t seem to mean it as a joke.

  29. Oh – oh – oh !! I almost forgot!

    “Stripper Soldiers: Fighting the War on Terror One Lap at a Time”

    (I thought of that in the bathroom. 🙂 )

  30. I agree with whatever Jennifer says.

  31. Last one … I think my work is almost done, here.

    @crimethink: You funny!

    Okay … I’m flip-flopping.

    Lap dancing is good. Very good. With one requirement: Lap dancers must be outfitted with explosives-and-plutonium-detecting sensors in order to process individuals as part of some Homeland Security project.

    It’s almost a certainty that visiting terrorists, and probably homegrowns, too, will visit a strip club at some point before they say their final farewells. Ergo, this is a target-rich environment for “sniffing” out terrorists.

    I think it has a chance of getting funded, frankly.

  32. Funny how I could go to a traditional dance club in Dallas and grind my ass into a man’s crotch on the dance floor but as soon as the club name was changed from “Stark Club” to “The Lodge” and I accepted a twenty instead of a drink, it became illegal.

    If you ladies want to make the big bucks getting naked for guys that enjoy your subjugation to the prevailing stereotype (and don’t gimme that “empowerment” crap … waaaaay too selfish to make a satisfying argument), then join an outfit where you get shuttled around to “private parties” by a jamoke with a .38 in his fanny pack to protect you from the extreme gropers, and don’t expect your neighborhood “strip” joint to put you through college.

    That’s silly. Strippers don’t get paid by the clubs; they are self-employed and pay the clubs for provided benefits. The strip joint doesn’t pay for the education or whatever else the woman is working for.

    Private parties can be dangerous even with a body guard. The neighborhood strip joint provides some safety, a built in advertising machine, a merchant account for credit card transactions, and some competition. There are people on board who can fight chargebacks when some guy’s wife finds the bill and disputes it. If there is a vice raid, generally attorneys are on board to help. (I worked at one club that had a “Dragon Slayer” shot special when vice was in.)

    Stripping is not necessarily “empowering” but to the woman who has no hang up with nudity, it is less exploitive than a cubical job. You pay the club to work, so there is no real boss and aside from following the law and club rules, you can do what you are comfortable with. The stripper decides her schedule and her income. Kiddo sick? No need to call in, beg off time and then worry about your job. Going on vacay? Find a club in the city you’re visiting and work there. Write off a portion of the trip as an expense. Clothes are costumes and the purchase and care of them are a business expense.

    The downside of stripping is the same as any other service industry, tending bar or waiting tables for example. The hours are goofy and some people party too much. Of course, with stripping, there is this “You are a whore!” mentality.

    In the end it is a personal choice not much different than that of a pro ball player, an actor, or even a CEO. The nudity just scares people who’ve never seen a pretty form and some people, like my husband, who are worried about the opinions of the aforementioned.

    My stripping career spanned two of my >20 year work experience and not a day of it scarred me.

  33. James, regarding your proposed compromise at 9:42 pm,

    I’d rather keep the lap dancing at strip clubs in commercial zones, where it won’t bother me, than encourage more of it at private parties in residential neighborhoods.

    I don’t think I’d want one of my neighbors regularly holding adult entertainment parties, making noise and taking up all of the street parking. Whatever goes on at the strip clubs on Brookpark Road, by contrast, doesn’t bother me at all.

  34. I must also add that The Lodge’s owner is a Greek immigrant who made good. He and his wife were fabulous to the women who worked at their club. (Yearly Xmas parties at the family’s G-rated pizza restaurant had Santa and presents for the kids. They took care of the women in bigger ways, but this is something that stuck out. It is a family business in every way, but opponents of the industry fail to mention it.)

    Funny Lodge commercial

    The Lodge website

  35. Mad Max:

    Yeah, my comment was a bit of a rant. But, I truly feel that even though we’ve made great strides towards sexual freedom, we’ve only really scratched the surface. The problem is, it takes at least a generation for a new idea to be accepted, and since there are many new ideas about sexuality that I feel will one day be accepted in a truly free society, I think we have a long way to go. This road to sexual liberty is fought against foot by foot, and inch by inch by the religious right, the extreme feminists, and by the non-religious who find sex repugnant in a way that they can’t seem to express logically but still claim it “just isn’t right”.

    You seem to find the comparisons to the Taliban to be hyperbole, and to an extent they are. But, we aren’t so far away from religious extremism affecting our sex lives. Not even 40 years ago, about half of a standard american lifetime, being killed for being attracted to the same sex, for sleeping with someone of a different race, or just being born of a certain race was quite common. We like to pretend that modern americans have wholeheartedly given up these prejudices, but as someone who grew up both religious, and in a small town, I can attest to the thick ties that still bind many people to these antiquated and frightening ideals.

    When I was 14, in Lincoln City, Oregon, my mainstream Baptist church handed out pro ballot measure 9 pamphlets. Measure 9 would have prevented gays and lesbians from being married and having legal protections for them written into the law. Even though I may disagree with hate crime legislation due to it inherantly treating people differently, I was a bit shocked at the propoganda our church was handing out.

    The pamphlet given to me by my church (obviously political but tax exempt I might add) informed me what those horrible, dirty faggots were into. It also provided a detailed description of these acts which include: Fisting (ouch!), Water Sports (ick!), Kiddie Porn (ugh!), Leather (ehh…), Sadomasochism (huh?), and rape (oh no!), amongst others. I learned that those conniving butt-pirates were scuttling around elementary school playgrounds, leering at little boys and plotting to sodomize anything that couldn’t outrun their sashaying, limp-wristed gang fuck schemes. My friends and I were horrified. We, along with many other god-fearing church goers decided to do whatever it takes to protect our little brothers from the baneful, shifty-eyed lavender menace. This included violence.

    Thankfully, I actually met one of those non-human sodomites and learned that they are just people, good and bad and indifferent as anyone else. But, a lot of people I grew up with never learned any different. These people are still there, teaching their kids the same thing.

    My point is, I guess, that we aren’t as far away from stoning people for improper masturbatory fantasies as we seem to think.

  36. Crimethink should be grateful I’m too moral to say something like “abortion should be legal” here.

    I didn’t do lap dances; table dances were the rule where I worked. But the no-touching laws were so ridiculously strict, you could technically be busted for prostitution if you shook someone’s hand at the end of a shift.

    If you ladies want to make the big bucks getting naked for guys that enjoy your subjugation to the prevailing stereotype (and don’t gimme that “empowerment” crap … waaaaay too selfish to make a satisfying argument)

    Topless, not naked, is as far as I cared to go, but actually, “empowering” might well be the word for what an 18-year-old feels when she’s effortlessly paying for college by making anywhere from $30 to $100+ an hour dolling herself up and dancing to songs she likes. Beats the hell out of working minimum wage in a retail shop or fast-food joint. So what’s the big deal?

  37. Strip club lap dance ban in Ohio, or the Right to Bare Asses. (shameless blog plug)

    I’ve been bitching about this for months and nobody seems to care, because, you know, it doesn’t affect them. Neither does the statewide smoking ban.


  38. If you ladies want to make the big bucks getting naked for guys that enjoy your subjugation to the prevailing stereotype (and don’t gimme that “empowerment” crap … waaaaay too selfish to make a satisfying argument), then join an outfit where you get shuttled around to “private parties” by a jamoke with a .38 in his fanny pack to protect you from the extreme gropers, and don’t expect your neighborhood “strip” joint to put you through college.

    First of all, there are also male strippers who strip to the prevailing stereotype. Last I checked, we still basically have a free market. Second of you, who are you to tell young women what they can or can’t do? In fact, since you’re trying to tell women what to do, let me offer you some advice: Shut up.

  39. First of all, there are also male strippers who strip to the prevailing stereotype.

    All too true, but they aren’t called whores; their counterparts and customers are.

    Men aren’t perceived as weak so there is no outrage over a bridal party groping dicks and doing body shots off of them. I’m no feminist, but this set up shows what is really at work. I watched Doug Stanhope (No Refunds)the other night and have to agree with his assessment: Women will never be equal because women’s “privates” are treated dirty.

    /do the bump and suck a cock

  40. Of course, with stripping, there is this “You are a whore!” mentality.

    If someone pays you for a sex act, then you are kind of a whore.

    (disclaimer that whoring should, of course, be legal in the other 49 states)

  41. If you are working for somebody other than yourself, you are the worst kind of whore. You’ve sold your mind and soul as well as your body. Piss test and dissent biatch- see where it gets you.

    (trashed and going to bed)

  42. >>> I guess the line has to be drawn somewhere …

    Yes, and it’s drawn by the two consenting adults involved, and NO ONE ELSE.

    Some day this dipshit, control freak world will figure that out.

  43. “Both dancers, who are paying their way through community college, said the new restrictions were hurt them financially.”

    Say what?

  44. I don’t think the motives for making money are in any way related to crux of the problem. I don’t care if they’re putting themselves through college, paying off a mortgage or plotting a violent coup in some 3rd world nation.

    The things they are spending their money on don’t have anything to do with the fact that they are protecting their financial interests.

    Regardless of what you think of their profession shouldn’t *they* be able to do it in a way that most benefits them?

    Most of the strip clubs that i’ve been to (in several different countries- yay military) have a distinct no touch rule. The lap dance booths are video taped and monitored and girls that do special favors are fired. The girls can touch you but you don’t touch them.

    If someone can give me a single salient link between stripping, strip clubs, or strippers, and children & families i’ll believe that there is more to this than a bunch of hot air and butt hole abrasions.

  45. I think of Miche and Jennifer as, in their own way, freedom fighters for the ideal of libertarian values. HOORAY for them!!!
    Now, where is the link to their “Gyrating for freedom” website?… which I want to visit,… to support libertarian ideals.

  46. “Both dancers, who are paying their way through community college…”

    Stereotype alert. I guess it’s good that they have already passed the GED.

    Jennifer, is this how you made it through junior college? 🙂

  47. Wayne, that’s how I made it through grad school. And, while I love my current job and wouldn’t give it up to go back to dancing, from time to time I’ll still hear a new song and think “Damn, that would be fun to pole-dance to.”

    If someone pays you for a sex act, then you are kind of a whore.

    And yet I’ve never considered stripping a sex act on par with prostitution or gambling. It’s simply a matter of showing body parts some people find shocking. In Saudi Arabia, if it were legal, you could probably make just as much money wearing shorts and a T-shirt on stage: by Allah, she’s showing her face! And her elbows and knees! How scandalous!

    When I started, in Virginia, we wore bikinis. Dancing in a bikini on a beach isn’t considered a sex act, yet doing the same dance on a stage somehow is. Yeah, whatever.

  48. “(I worked at one club that had a “Dragon Slayer” shot special when vice was in.)’

    Honey, you lost me on this one. I do not understand what you are talking about.

  49. Jennifer,

    I was joking with you, which I am sure you recognized. It is utterly apparent to me that you are very intelligent. The fact that you were a stripper only makes you even more irrestible.

    You were in grad school when you were 18? Wow.

  50. I love how some people will always try to blur the lines so that they can include more and more people into that portion of society that feel morally superior to.

    A “sex act” involves penetration. Anything less is just titillation and is hardly new or shocking.

  51. “A “sex act” involves penetration. Anything less is just titillation and is hardly new or shocking.”

    So Clinton was right, he…did…not…have…sex…with…that…woman…

  52. I love how some people will always try to blur the lines so that they can include more and more people into that portion of society that feel morally superior to.

    And if “I’ve never danced onstage in scanty clothes” is the most bragworthy thing about you, or even in the top one thousand, you need to seriously reconsider what you’ve done with your life.

  53. wayne,
    I think a blowjob involves penetration. It should anyway 😉

  54. mk,

    good point.

  55. Frank Booth,

    “Not even 40 years ago, about half of a standard american lifetime, being killed for being attracted to the same sex, for sleeping with someone of a different race, or just being born of a certain race was quite common.”

    Going back 40 years would put us back in the 60s. Are you saying that gay sex and interracial sex were as dangerous then as wearing the wrong gang colors is today, as far as the risk of murder is concerned? You say “quite common,” which would suggest that you couldn’t even walk down to the corner grocery without tripping over the bodies of dead sexual dissidents.

    Even in the Dark Ages of the 1960s, there were things going on which might not pass muster under the Taliban, things like braless hippie chicks, James Bond’s girlfriend Pussy Galore on the big screen, that sort of thing.

    Qutb, one of the intellectual godfathers of Islamism, came to America in the late 40s/early 50s, when the sexual repression was even worse than in the strait-laced Sixties. Which reaction do you think he had?

    (a) “Wonderful! This is exactly the sort of strict Puritanical regime that I would like to emulate in the Islamic world!”

    (b) “I am appalled at the sexual libertinism and degeneracy of the Americans!”

    The correct answer is (b), by the way.

  56. MK,

    actually, after thinking about it, a BJ is more of an engulfment than a penetration, i.e. the blower is the active participant whilst the blowee is simply squirming and trying not to get any on her dress.

  57. When lap dances are outlawed, only outlaws will get lap dances!!!

  58. but this isn’t about the beautiful utopia of sex and freedom that you describe … it’s about power and money. There ain’t no flower children stripping in Cleveland.

    Wow. A guy on a pro-capitalist libertarian chat board is complaining about women who are motivated by the desire to make a profit, rather than a hippie Communist “money is evil and everything should be free” ethos.

    The writers who produce content for this magazine… whores, all of them. This isn’t about some beautiful utopia of capitalism and freedom. It’s about power and money. There ain’t no flower children writing Reason articles in DC.

  59. I love how some people will always try to blur the lines so that they can include more and more people into that portion of society that feel morally superior to.

    Who’s blurring the lines? People pay strippers to dance (an act) for sexual gratification. Paying people for sexual gratification is also called whoring. Trying to pretend it was something else because there was no penetration, or parts were covered by a bikini, or whatever is blurring the lines.

  60. “And yet I’ve never considered stripping a sex act on par with prostitution or gambling.”

    Gambling as a sex act? Is that like the Monopoly where you pass “Blow” instead of Go, and land on “Mediter-anal-ean” or “Ball-tic”? Jail is still jail, of course. No need to change that.

  61. I love all of the perpetuating stereotypes bullshit. What stereotypes? That women are “sexual objects”? Is that the impression a reasonable person gets when they see certain women flaunting their physical form instead of their mental attributes. Next time you’re at a football game, ask yourself: is football perpetuating the stereotype of men as “sports objects,” flaunting their physical form instead of mental attributes?

    For most people, except complete morons, seeing a person in one role shouldn’t lead you to believe that such a person — and the entire class of people they putatively represent — are only capable of fulfilling that one role.

    Let me also apologize ahead of time for perpetuating the stereotype about men as “commenting-in-reason-threads-about-strippers-objects.”

  62. But Jennifer, it used to be all about the art of it. Then it went commercial, and it’s all about the money now.

    *Generic complaint that can be used about ANYTHING under the sun.

  63. I’m sorry, I’m still imagining Jennifer and miche pole dancing naked. I’ll be back a while later.

  64. Chris S.: How does one comment on strippers as a class without stereotyping? Should we get a valid survey done before we claim that strippers aren’t discovering the cure for cancer?

  65. “But Jennifer, it used to be all about the art of it.”

    If by “art” you mean pullin’ hose, then yes.

  66. Chris S.: How does one comment on strippers as a class without stereotyping?

    I don’t know, which is why I used the word “putatively.” I’m not suggesting that one stripper actually represents all strippers or all women. In fact, the idea strikes me as ridiculous.

    Should we get a valid survey done before we claim that strippers aren’t discovering the cure for cancer?

    Huh?

  67. Sluts are disgusting. Strippers are all sluts.

  68. Dammit! I’m stuck in Cleveland for 9 months or my job and one of the only things this town has going for it is the fact that you can touch the strippers. And that the lap dances cost 10 bucks.

    I’m used to the west coast where it costs 30 bucks to get in, the dances cost 20 and there is a giant dude who is probably packing watching your every move. You touch the girl even by accident and your ass is on the street.

    Ohio, on the other hand, appears to be a free-for-all. The touching isn’t just the girl grinding her covered parts on your lap. It’s you putting your hands on her bare parts too. And a through-the-pants handjob or blowjob is not unheard of either. Florida is the only place I know of with laxer rules than this.

    Oh and that’s a good thing. After September this place is going to be even more unbearable.

  69. Pepe,

    So there are people in Ohio who want Cleveland’s strip clubs to observe the same limits as strip clubs on “the west coast,” that notorious Taliban bastion? How repressive!

  70. “Florida is the only place I know of with laxer rules than this.”

    That only applies to politicians in public restrooms….

  71. wayne,

    Also, I would think that if anybody’s empowered by oral sex, it’s the person with the teeth in the area of contact.

    Mad Max,

    one of the intellectual godfathers of Islamism, came to America in the late 40s/early 50s,

    Which intellectual godfather? When?

  72. Women will never be equal because women’s “privates” are treated dirty.

    Which is why they show up on screen far, far more frequently than men’s, right?

  73. Paying people for sexual gratification is also called whoring.

    So being attractive and allowing men to look at you equals sexual gratification which leads logically to a woman being a whore. Sounds like all women who aren’t in chadors are whores, yup.

    Either you are complete douchebag or you are just another troll. Either way you’re not worth my time.

  74. Sluts are disgusting. Strippers are all sluts.

    I’ll bet that you repeat this to yourself over and over while wanking to the porn you downloaded.

  75. Some of you need to actually go to a strip club. Most aren’t as bad as you think. With the exception of one Atlanta trip, I danced topless. The all nude clubs are actually more strict than the topless ones. (Can’t spread your legs more than 6″ apart, 3′ away on table dances, no bending over on stage, etc.)

    “(I worked at one club that had a “Dragon Slayer” shot special when vice was in.)’

    Honey, you lost me on this one. I do not understand what you are talking about.

    Vice cops can be quite nasty. As Jennifer pointed out, a dancer can be arrested for prostitution if she shakes the hand of a guy she danced for. When (known) vice officers came into the club, the DJ would announce a shot special. Whether or not you were actually doing something illegal, it helped you be particularly mindful. Kinda like having a radar detector in your car.

    This ex stripper (WHORE! see I saved some of you bastards a few key strokes- save your strength for a real issues) has to run to meet my patent attorney.

  76. You know what’s really degrading for a woman? Working at McDonald’s. I did so for awhile in high school, and the men I served didn’t care jack shit about my intellect. They saw me as nothing more than a way to get a piece of meat (with a side order of fries).

  77. You know what’s really degrading for a woman? Working at McDonald’s. I did so for awhile in high school, and the men I served didn’t care jack shit about my intellect. They saw me as nothing more than a way to get a piece of meat (with a side order of fries).

    The worst part is that you were perpetuating stereotypes about women serving fries. After hearing that story, I won’t be able to look at another woman without thinking “fry-whore.”

  78. “The writers who produce content for this magazine… whores, all of them. This isn’t about some beautiful utopia of capitalism and freedom. It’s about power and money. There ain’t no flower children writing Reason articles in DC.”

    that’s not true; they have a theme song:

    “c’mon people now / sell stuff to your brother / everyone get together / and engage in non-coercive trade right now…”

  79. Jennifer: I’m sure they appreciated your ability to find the “fry” button within 30 seconds of their order.

  80. Is this thread going to turn into a Ron McDiggler thread?

  81. crimethink,

    I was referring to Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian intellectual whose desire to overthrow secular regimes in the Muslim world and adopt his strict version of “pure” Islam was inspirational to many subsequent Islamic radicals. See

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qutb

    From the article:

    “From 1948 to 1950, he went to the United States on a scholarship to study the educational system . . .

    “Qutb was extremely critical of many things in the United States: its materialism, individual freedom, economic system, racism, brutal boxing matches, poor haircuts, triviality, restrictions on divorce, enthusiasm for sports, ‘animal-like’ mixing of the sexes (which went on even in churches), and lack of support for the Palestinian struggle. . . .

    “Qutb concluded that major aspects of American life were ‘primitive’ and shocking. His experiences in the U.S. partly formed the impetus for his rejection of Western values and his move towards radicalism upon returning to Egypt.”

    At least America has eased up on those pesky “restrictions on divorce” since Qutb’s visit.

  82. You know what’s really degrading for a woman? Working at McDonald’s.

    Do fries come with that shake, baby?

  83. “Qutb was extremely critical of many things in the United States: its materialism, individual freedom, economic system, racism, brutal boxing matches, poor haircuts, triviality, restrictions on divorce, enthusiasm for sports, ‘animal-like’ mixing of the sexes (which went on even in churches), and lack of support for the Palestinian struggle. . . .

    It’s a good thing irony died, or this would have killed it.

  84. Jake Boone,

    Come to think of it, it *is* a bit much for Islamic radicals to criticize *our* fashion sense.

  85. The all nude clubs are actually more strict than the topless ones. (Can’t spread your legs more than 6″ apart, 3′ away on table dances, no bending over on stage, etc.)

    Geez, I haven’t been to a strip club in quite a few years, and I don’t remember any of these particular rules being in place, or being enforced if they were.

    I guess being a coastal hedonist, stripping seems so “mainstreamed” now that I have a difficult time imagining anyone getting upset about it, other than Dworkinite feminists.

  86. “Going back 40 years would put us back in the 60s. Are you saying that gay sex and interracial sex were as dangerous then as wearing the wrong gang colors is today, as far as the risk of murder is concerned? You say “quite common,” which would suggest that you couldn’t even walk down to the corner grocery without tripping over the bodies of dead sexual dissidents.”

    Your assuming that by “quite common” I mean pervading every part of society constantly, is incorrect. I meant that it was happening on a regular basis. Lynching did happen. Beatings did happen. Murders did happen. Blacks and gays were often the subjects of this merely for their blackness or gayness. So yes, it was quite common, although you didn’t have to play hopscotch over their corpses.

    Also, just because a muslim cleric with extreme views doesn’t like the US’s sexual mores doesn’t mean that you can’t find a similar line of reasoning within current US anti-sex groups. I’m sure the cleric you speak of wouldn’t like how some muslim countries also let their women drive cars and go out of the house alone. This doesn’t make these “modern” muslim countries a guiding light of sexual freedom. The fact is: some people can’t stand other people’s genitals feeling tingly. They make laws to prevent this. This is a Taliban mindset.

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