Military Wet DREAM

An interesting piece of the struggling immigration bill has been largely overlooked: The Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors (DREAM) Act would enable illegal immigrants to get on the path to citizenship after a day of military service, so long as they were under 16 when they came to the United States and graduated from high school as top students. The provision would make the military happy, since it would open up potential recruiting opportunities to 750,000 eligible illegals (though only to the star students among them). The Boston Globe reports:

Because the bill makes eligible only illegal immigrants considered high quality -- high achievers with no criminal histories -- the provision has supporters among even those who oppose the overall immigration package and criticize it as "amnesty."

"It is not perfect, but it is far better than some of the ways they are talking about to grant illegals new status here," said retired Air Force Lieutenant General Thomas McInerney, a conservative commentator and military analyst.

Comments

[C Bowen]

I guess it depends on who you are thinking is overlooking that detail. The DC-regime is more like Rome everyday.

[J sub D]

The Roman Empire, foreign soldiers in the army. Those who don't learn from history ...

[Warren]

Back in the Reagan years when I was a sailor. There were a large number of Filipinos signing up with the USN. They showed up to boot camp with their uniforms already. I was told they went to a pre-boot camp where they learned to speak English. I always assumed this was a special path to citizenship, available only to them. The funny thing is they all became Mess Specialists (cooks). I wonder what happened to them all. If they served long enough to retire, they'd be getting out about now. Anybody notice a sudden rash of Filipino caterers?

[peachy]

The problem wasn't foreign soldiers in the Roman army; it was foreign units under their own commanders that had no loyalty to the Empire. If anything, foreign officers were safer than Roman ones, as it was impossible for them to make a grab for the crown.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Warren, the Fillipino Sailors were there when I was in This Man's Marine Corps as well. They were all stewards and cleaning personnel in the officers quarters or cooks on Navy installations. I was told it was a special program available to them based on the former territorial status of the Philippines. I wonder if they abolished the program when everything went PC. I mean, after all, it was almost like they were indentured servants. Even then it seemed a little odd.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

In the old days they'd sentence wayward young men to military service rather than jail. Then everybody got progressive. Now this, which seems substantially less useful than sending people off to get straightened out by a DI with a Smokey.

...after a day of military service.....

How about after six years of military service?

I'll bet it's empty though, I just don't see too many kids of illegals getting top grades.

{looks around quickly and wonders if we're allowed to say stuff like that}

[J sub D]

I did 20 years in the navy and can attest that a large percentage of Filipino sailors were mess specialists. OTOH the best disbursing clerk and one of the best electricians I served with were also Filipino. Like any other ethnic group, some sucked, some were outstanding, and most were somewgere in the middle.

[Russ 2000]

Perhaps we can further encourage this new caste system and appease the hateful citizenry by making a trade - every illegal accepted in this scheme is countered by exiling the dumbass who finished at the bottom of the particular high schools.

[Warren]

In the old days they'd sentence wayward young men to military service rather than jail.

Yeah, that didn't work out so well. Funny thing. It turns out packing the military with criminals isn't very conducive to maintaining discipline and mission objectives.

[J sub D]

The problem wasn't foreign soldiers in the Roman army; it was foreign units under their own commanders that had no loyalty to the Empire. If anything, foreign officers were safer than Roman ones, as it was impossible for them to make a grab for the crown.

Your first point I graciously concede. I could be mistaken, but didn't foreign generals eventually assume the throne?

[Other Matt]

foreign generals eventually assume the throne?

I think they just sacked the place and left. Had a lot to do with the Romans not living up to their commitments, at least with the Visigoths. Then again, I'm not a history dude, so I'll shut up now.

[Tacos mmm]

I guess the Goths aren't available for recruitment.

[Ellie]

Or more like 675,000 (max) illegals -- can't go letting the gay ones slip by!

[Education at the click of a mo]

I just uploaded a video about the DREAMAct at my name's link. In addition to the disturbing points raised by the first two comments, there are even more disturbing features. There are even disturbing features not covered in the 30 second video, namely the reduction in the value of USCitizenship.

And, there have been literally dozens of PropagandaPieces written in support of the Act, all of them highly similar in structure. I suspect they're planted by ImmigrationLawyers or other groups, because they all follow the same basic structure and use the same arguments.

So, check out the video at the link to find out yet another thing that the hacks at Reason are unable to comprehend.

[peachy]

I believe Odovacer was the first to take the throne in his own name after deposing his puppet emperor in 476, although senior generals had often been de facto rulers since the time of Stilicho. But in the preceding century - when foreign soldiers were still being enrolled as individuals - 'barbarian' officers were almost invariably loyal to the Empire (as far as they were concerned, they were Romans in every way that mattered.) Problems arose in the fifth century when you had 'Roman' generals like Alaric who were also tribal chieftains.

[jimmydageek]

There are even disturbing features not covered in the 30 second video, namely the reduction in the value of USCitizenship.

Really, solitary loon? What's the value of USCitizenship up to these days? How does it compare to the Euro??

[de stijl]

Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?

[Pro Libertate]

Why don't we just institute a cover charge? If you pay the cover charge, then you get to apply for U.S. citizenship. Otherwise, you don't.

How about $10,000? Is that enough?

[Did I miss that thread?]

They will come in handy when we invade Venezuela.

[jh]

"Why don't we just institute a cover charge? If you pay the cover charge, then you get to apply for U.S. citizenship. Otherwise, you don't."

How about instead we institute a loyalty oath to liberty? Make each applicant for citizenship write an essay on the topic, "Which federal government entitlement programs should receive priority in funding from tax revenues?" If they answer anything other than enumerated constitutional functions like defense, citizenship denied. Oh, and a quiz on the meaning of each part of the Bill of Rights, with any statist answers resulting in refusal of citizenship.

Oh, wait, that'll "pass" the U.S. House by about a 1-434 vote.

[Roz]

Is it really AMNESTY if u have 2 wait 12 years and Pay a $5,000 fine?

OK, they broke the law...but so do many people. Speeding, parking, DWIs, Murder, etc.

When u break the Law, u get a fine or go 2 jail. Is bein an illegal alien realy worst than Speeding, parking, DWIs, Murder, etc. ?

[Chucklehead]

I guess the Goths aren't available for recruitment.

Having a battallion of pasty-faced kids with purple hair, heavy mascara, dressed all in black, and marching to The Smiths seems kinda silly.

[poco]

The Smiths weren't Goth (even The Cure weren't Goth, really); they were... proto-emo, I guess. "Indie", the term might have been back then.

When u break the Law, u get a fine or go 2 jail.

Is that you, Prince?

[Hugh Akston]

See, you guys, this is why we have the same people who run the military in charge of the schools.

Efficiency!

[Everything\'s Half Off]

I don't like Visigoths. Tomorrow, we'll get sign: "No Spiders or Visigoths Allowed."

[Col DuBois]

There are even disturbing features not covered in the 30 second video, namely the reduction in the value of USCitizenship.

Does that mean every time someone's born in the US your citizenship loses value?

[peachy]

What about Ostrogoths? Everyone always forgets about them...

[shecky]

Does anyone know for sure, but it seems to me that this has been going on for a while. I've known Mexicans who indicated they were in some sort of citizenship-for-service deal with the military.

[isildur]

"Does that mean every time someone's born in the US your citizenship loses value?"

I'm hoping for a citizenship stock split so I can sell my extra share of citizenship to someone and use the proceeds on ale and whores.

[LarryA]

"It is not perfect, but it is far better than some of the ways they are talking about to grant illegals new status here," said retired Air Force Lieutenant General Thomas McInerney, a conservative commentator and military analyst.

The program was in effect back when I was an Army officer. (Vietnam era.) I had a number of enlisted men who were applying for citizenship. Universally it was their opinion that a year as an infantry grunt in combat was easier and safer than dealing with the INS.

[Mr. F. Le Mur]

Does anyone know for sure, but it seems to me that this has been going on for a while.
That applied to legal immigrants who weren't citizens.

...though only to the star students among them...

A "star student" is one who graduates from H.S.?

S.1545 (House and Senate bills are the same here, though there are several bills with this title):
"the alien, at the time of application, has been admitted to an institution of higher education in the United States, or has earned a high school diploma or obtained a general education development certificate in the United States;"
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c108:2:./temp/~c108NTnYkJ:e25572:

[fish]

I'll refrain from arging the merits of this bill and rather ask the question.......do we have to give every single piece of pending legislation a fucking cutesy name?!?! DREAM act my ass!

[David Rossie]

A snarky response is "jobs that Americans won't do?" No anti-immigrant types should get a pass if they support this yet bitch about farm laborers.

[Warren]

do we have to give every single piece of pending legislation a fucking cutesy name?!?!

Yes. Yes we do. At least for the next generation or so. By then the revolution should be well underway.

[Education at the click of a mo]

The DREAMAct reduces the worth of USCitizenship as a result of one of its other provisions, which is described at the link (in the form of a question for HillllaryClinton).

As described at the link, the Act will take ColllegeDiscounts from USCitizens and give them to ForeignCitizens who are here illegally.

You might not like ColllegeDiscounts in the first place, but that's immaterial. When forced to choose over who gets something, the DREAMAct chooses ForeignCitizens over USCitizens. By so doing, it devalues USCitizenship.

Needless to say, figuring that out is too tough for Reason's hacks.

[Cesar]

"HillllaryClinton"? So, now you are using WeirdSpellllling as well?

[MikeP]

When forced to choose over who gets something, the DREAMAct chooses ForeignCitizens over USCitizens. By so doing, it devalues USCitizenship.

If this is about illegal immigrant state residents getting in-state tuition while citizen residents of other states don't...

In no way does that devalue US citizenship. If the US citizen wants in-state tuition, he can move to the state. Whether or not the illegal immigrant exists has absolutely no effect on the rights and privileges of the citizen.

[crimethink]

Cesar, the extra l's are to emphasize that she's a liberal. Just like porn actresses add x's to their name to emphasize, well, whatever.

[SIV]

"I just don't see too many kids of illegals getting top grades."

Depends on the school. There was a story in the AJC about a kid from Dalton-illegal-whose parents worked in the carpet mills.He graduated near the top of his class and was planning on using GAs Hope Scholarship to go to college.
He didn't meet the residencey requirement as he is a foreign national here illegally.
As long as our current immigration laws are in effect the military program is a good one.
Give kids who did not chose to break the law a chance to earn citizenship and an education. Good for the country and good for the young immigrants.

[joshua corning]

I'll bet it's empty though, I just don't see too many kids of illegals getting top grades.

Yeah cuz people who are willing to cross a boarder and hide from persecution in order to improve themselves could not possibly instill a work ethic into their children.

You can say that all day long Wine. It won't make much sense...still you can say it.

[jtuf]

This reminds me of the French citizenship offered to members of the French Foriegn Legion.

[jf]

Is there a picture of LoneWacko somewhere on TheInternet? I'd ReallyLove to see a PictoralRepresentation of that InterestingIndividual.

[Genghis Kahn]

His PicturedSelf was destroyed by TheEvilOnes. Some of them were USCitizens, while others were ForeignCitizens.

[Cesar]

For The LoveOfGod, I WouldReally like ToHear him explain his StrangeSpelling and RandomCapitalization.

"Cesar, the extra l's are to emphasize that she's a liberal. Just like porn actresses add x's to their name to emphasize, well, whatever."

What should we put to emphasize we are libertarians? It would also be a useful SecretCode to tell RonPaulSupporters to GameThePolls.

[Cesar]

Any way LoneWacko, I'm afraid its too late.

The MexicanInvasion is already here!

[Genghis Kahn]

Don'tYou GetIt? This is TheLanguage of Conspiracy.

And PornFilms.

[J Golden Rockwell]

It's too late to "cheapen" the value of US Citizenship -- that was done when citizens-by-birth started thinking that they are better than immigrants.

Fact is, most citizens-by-birth couldn't qualify for visas to come here.

Heinlein had it right -- citizenship should be EARNED . . .which is what the military program gives an opportunity to do.

[heads or tails]

If the illegal aliens are in the army then the army won't be able to move them out of the country. We say GO, they say NO, then what do we do? They're going to stay and they are not going to do the jobs others don't want.

[Genghis Kahn]

Heinlein had it right -- citizenship should be EARNED . . .which is what the military program gives an opportunity to do.

Hmmm. That brings up interesting possibilities. You could recruit your own Nation Without Borders, from across the world. Your citizens would be anyone willing to "earn the right".

If I'm not mistaken the Islamic terrorists have been doing something like this, haven't they?

[Coarsetad]

why don't we just recruit ALL illegal aliens, and then station them at army bases along the border?

[kwais]

I think this sounds like a good program.

I had a roomate who was in the Marines for 10 years and was still trying to get his citizenship.

I think he earned it his first year of honorable serivice.

[Nike Dunk Shoes]

thanks