Virgil Goode Bigotry Update

My congressional representative, Virgil Goode (R-Va.), denounced in a bigoted letter incoming Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) for taking a private oath of office while holding the Koran. A native-born American Ellision is the first Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress.

Making Goode look even more pathetically ignorant, the Washington Post's Reliable Source deliciously reports:

Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress, found himself under attack last month when he announced he'd take his oath of office on the Koran -- especially from Virginia Rep. Virgil Goode, who called it a threat to American values.

Yet the holy book at tomorrow's ceremony has an unassailably all-American provenance. We've learned that the new congressman -- in a savvy bit of political symbolism -- will hold the personal copy once owned by Thomas Jefferson.

Jefferson's home Monticello is in Goode's district.

Whole item here .

Disclosure: I continue to be mortified that Goode is my elected representative and happy to report that I voted for his Democratic opponent. Though I confess that I am beginning to enjoy watching Goode twist slowly in the wind.

Comments

[de stijl]

Does Rep. Goode know that Jefferson re-wrote his own version of the bible (actually I believe it was just the Gospels) which he called The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth whose most notable feature is that he removed all of the supernatural aspects from the narrative?

[Warren]

The phase "twist slowly" implies that the subject is aware that they are screwed. So far we've seen no evidence of such higher cognitive abilities from Goode.

[Bob Smith]

Ellison cannot claim to uphold both the Koran and the US Constitution, since Islam law claims supremacy over the latter (unlike Christianity: "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"). Goode isn't being a bigot, he's rightly pointing out the elephant in the room: that Islam and the Constitution are irreconcilable and that Ellison has visibly divided loyalty.

[de stijl]

Bob,

Are you saying that Christion Dominionists are ineligible for office too?

Also, what part of "no religious test" is unclear to you?

[Ken]

I don't think Tom would be happy to see Ellison use his copy. Tom wasn't a proponent of Christianity, much less the far more invasive Islam. I think that Tom would be astounded to find that a proponent of Sharia was comming to the HOR.

Thomas Jefferson's "Declaration of Independence"'s secular purpose was to "dissolve the political bands," and it inaugurated the anti-biblical idea that "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." Jefferson was a Deist who was highly critical of Christianity, and whose revolutionary document made references to a "Nature's God."

"[T]hat no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief: but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
-- Thomas Jefferson, The Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom, enacted on January 16, 1786

[Lamar]

Bob Smith:

Jesus is a prophet in Islam, right? Glad we have that cleared up. Now go play. And while you're out in your sandbox, read the First Amendment part about separation of church and state.

[JW]

If there is any justice, the book will burst into flames the moment Goode touches it.

[Jennifer]

Elsewhere in the New Testament, Paul orders slaves to obey their masters. Such an attitude is incompatible with American democracy, but I don't see Goode whining about that.

[JW]

Whoops, retraction...I was under the mistaken impression that it was Goode who will use a bible owned by Jefferson, not Ellison and a Koran of the same vintage. D'oh. Stupid brain.

Kids, never post and not RTFA first.

[Chris S.]

I think that Tom would be astounded to find that a proponent of Sharia was comming to the HOR.

Do you have any evidence that Ellison is a proponent of Sharia?

[mk]

If a Libertarian is ever elected, they should take their oath on Jefferson's copy of The Wealth of Nations.

[Guy Montag]

I once felt sadness for the folks who lived around UN HQ for having Rangel as a representative.

I now shift a portion of that sadness to the people of Mr. Bailey's portion of the country.

Good thing they named a chain of bars for Mr. Bailey. Perhaps he will get a discount during the long two years ahead.

[Aresen]

"I continue to be mortified that Goode is my elected representative and happy to report that I voted for his Democratic opponent."

Get over it, Ron. If you voted for his opponent, you are not responsible for Goode or his actions.

UNLESS: your endorsement of his opponent was a clever ploy which caused the voters in your district to stampede to Goode. Talk about dirty tricks!

[Timothy]

Bob: I am lighting you on fire, with my mind.

[Bob Smith]

Jesus is a prophet in Islam, right? Glad we have that cleared up.

That Jesus is a prophet doesn't mean that he is actually revered in Islam, it's a form of replacement theology. Islam deems itself the original religion and all others are corruptions of it. Jesus' job in the Koran is to slay all unbelievers and deliver the world unto Islam.

And while you're out in your sandbox, read the First Amendment part about separation of church and state.

What part of "Islamic law deems itself superior to man-made law" is unclear? Ellison cannot claim allegiance to Islam and the First Amendment, since in Islam the church is the state. Well, he can, but he'd be lying (Google "taqiyya").

[The Wine Commonsewer]

I find it interesting that those who continue to hold American Christians responsible for the ancient violence of European Catholics are able to confidently assure us that not a single assimilated American Muslim poses a threat to the Republic. They're, well, not like all those Islamic extremists that want us dead.

Heck, they're not even like some of those militant American Black Muslims of the Sixties.........

But that fargin' Robertson.............

[Bob Smith]

Are you saying that Christion Dominionists are ineligible for office too?

Never heard of them. Do they advocate abolishing the Constitution and replacing it with a Christian theocracy? That's nothing less than what Muslims want. If so, they should be ineligible.

[thoreau]

Ah, yes, another one of those "If you claim to be a member of (insert religion here) then you must be a fundamentalist who adhere's to the most extreme version of it. Look, it says right here in your book that..."

And then you can point to some member of (insert religion here) who agrees with that statement.

The fact of the matter is that most people don't take their religious cues from the most hard-line clergy. And they don't take their religious cues from you either.

[thoreau]

BTW, my use of (insert religion here) is not an attempt to be PC. It's a reflection on the fact that the exact same line of argument sometimes gets used in regard to Christianity.

[Some James]

Yep, all Muslims want the exact same thing. And they buy and practice all elements of the Koran vehemently and constantly. Including all the parts that contradict each other. Luckily, none of them have any concerns that outside of religion either.

Seriously, have you ever seen a Muslim? Outside from on the TV? God forbid, talked to one? People are people. With the same concerns, and all religions have weirdo anachronistic elements that people conveniently don't follow when it doesn't suit them.

I've heard much more from Goode that would seem to indicate a willingness to let go of the constitution than from Ellison.

[VikingMoose]

(Hey Bob - we missed you at the "Napoleon Dynamite" discussion group.)

What part of "religious test" is unclear, there, big guy.

"Thanks" Bob for clearing what (all) Muslims "want". Good to know. Since Jews don't have the new testament with the "give to bigus dickus what he wants slipped" (or whatever other bullshit you were frothing about from your book of fairy tales), and, as you know, they have a state - oh dear. they're out, too. OMG! catholics worship that dude over in europe - the one who wears that funky hat. A catholic president here would clearly be loyal to that guy. They're out too. Oh dear. Atheists are out because they'd take the Constitution too seriously. So they're out.

That's it, isn't it? You're scared that a Haisidic-ocracy will take over, and you'll have to be circumcized. But your dick is so small you have a threeskin instead of a foreskin.

Aw hell. Bob meet filter. And you win the asshole of the day award.

Bigotry in the pleasant disguise of an illusion, that's what bob is. Go shove a coversheet for a TPS report up your ass.

[D.A. Ridgely]

Yet the holy book at tomorrow's ceremony has an unassailably all-American provenance. We've learned that the new congressman -- in a savvy bit of political symbolism -- will hold the personal copy once owned by Thomas Jefferson.

Anybody know if Jefferson edited that copy like his Bible into a Deist version?

[Les]

Do they advocate abolishing the Constitution and replacing it with a Christian theocracy? That's nothing less than what Muslims want.

This is absolutely ridiculous, demonstrably false, and certainly the very definition of bigoted.

[Caesar]

Bob-
That is an incorrect interpretation of "render unto caesar" etc.

Yes, Jesus said give to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is God's. But Jews believed that God owned everything in the world, therefore Caesar (the government) really deserved nothing at all.

[Jeff Fecke]

Honestly, I love that my fellow Minnesotans elected Black Muslim Keith Ellison (as he's affectionately known around here, given that the first two words seem to be permanently attached to his name) to the US House. Primarily because he just brings out the bigot in everyone.

Yes, there's nobody I fear will bring about Shari'a than a Detroit native who was endorsed by the crazy left in Minneapolis and who had his whole victory party chant "Love...Love...Love" in celebration.

Ellison may bring about the transformation of America into Sweden. I'm not so worried about him making us into Afghanistan.

[JW]

I'm surounded by Kuwaitis and Saudis where I work (literally), whom I presume are muslim, and I can tell you that what they want is to go outside the building and smoke cigarettes until smoke is actually coming out of their ears (and possibly other orifices). A few of them went so far as to set up a smoking lounge in a public storage area for the colder months.

They hate us because of our anti smoking laws!

[Warren]

Caesar,
I hope you're joking

VikingMoose,
You shoved an old coversheet up Bob's ass. You have to use the new ones. There was a memo.

Here:
MEMORANDUM
TO: All Software Division - Programmers
FROM: B. Lumbergh
RE: New T.P.S. Report Cover Sheets

Please use the new T.P.S. Report cover sheets starting immediately. These new cover sheets will provide a uniformity to all of our reports. It is imperative these reports be completed for each product modification as well as at the end of each day.
With proper diligence to this matter, our accounting department can expedite the billing process.
I know I can count on each and everyone of you!!

[VikingMoose]

"Ellison may bring about the transformation of America into Sweden."

Lutfisk on every table?

[VM]

Sorry Warren! Have corrected. (May I keep a copy of the memo?)

[Caesar]

Warren-
Im not. One of my best friends is a seminarian, he told me this is one passage just about every lay person gets wrong.

This makes Bob incorrect. According to Jesus, we don't owe the federal government anything.

[bubba]

Ellison might want to reconsider his choice. I'm reading that Jefferson read this Koran during the war against the Barbary Pirates.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjBkNmRmMDYxOTI2NGY1NDg3YjM5ZGE0Y2JiM2VmNjc=

[JW]

Warren--That memo must be a hoax. I have it on good authority that Lumbergh would never use exclamation points.

Too emotive and they cost more than periods.

[Bob Smith]

"Ellison may bring about the transformation of America into Sweden."

Lutfisk on every table?

Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden

[highnumber]

Anybody know if Jefferson edited that copy like his Bible into a Deist version?

The Qur'an is a lot more realistic than the New Testament. He probably would not have felt as much need to edit.

[dalulema]

Immigration Daily recently published a comment where it states that Rep. Goode's words are "a direct attack on the first amendment, not merely in its anti-immigration perspective, but more importantly, in being an explicit declaration to destroy the ancient foundations of freedom in our country." Once again, Jefferson's words are used to criticize Goode's acts and words: "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."

To read the complete comment,
http://www.ilw.com/immigdaily/digest/2007,0102.shtm

[Some James]

"Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden"

I'm going to ignore how this comment defies any logic or reason or sense, and make fun of how retardly fake-seeming your name is.

[highnumber]

Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden

The Swedes have the best rock bands!
I have not heard of MRW. Do they sound like the Hives, The Soundtrack of Our Lives, Sahara Hotnights, Blues Hammer - any point of reference?

[de stijl]

Muslim Rape Wave in Sweden?

Think that gives any cred? I saw Husker Du at 7th St. Entry in '81 and got whacked in the forehaed by a broken pick because I was that fucking CLOSE, man!

[caesar]

Is it just me or does the "Muslim Rape Wave" sound suspiciously like "Negro Cocaine Fiends New Southern Menace?"

[D.A. Ridgely]

One of my best friends is a seminarian, he told me this is one passage just about every lay person gets wrong.

I've got a friend in his first year of law school, too, just in case you need defense counsel when you're arrested for tax evasion.

[VikingMoose]

"Muslimsk V?ldt?kts B?lja"?

Det lyder mystisk p? Svensk!

Men jag ?r v?ldig glad, att Du k?nner Sverige s? god, och alt vad det f?rg?r d?r!

[Truth]

Bob Smith is right. Islam is incompatible with democracy and liberal (in the traditional sense) values. Look at what is happening in Europe. Holland is struggling mightly with this fact as are Denmark and others. Just a preview of what awaits us if we do not take steps to stem the influence of numbers of muslims in this country. Constitutional democracy hangs in the balance.

[Thomas Paine\'s Goiter]

Outside from on the TV?

I find it difficult to watch TV from outside because I can't hear what's going on.

[ethan]

Bob,

there is plenty in the Bible that is inconsistent with the Constitution. does that imply to you that Christians should be barred from public office? oh, right, Christianity is the "right" religion.

perhaps it never occurred to you, but there are many different sorts of Muslims just as there are different sorts of christians. and, in America, neither may be barred from public office on the basis of their religion.

So go back to Russia.

[VikingMoose]

Denmark is struggling?

Wow. I missed it all those years I lived there.

The only thing they're struggling with is their inferiority complex and their stifling socialism combined with really subtle, yet fervent nationalism.

"Truth" - go back to your anti smoking ads. We could write "tool" in your back hair...

[ethan]

Bob Smith is right. Islam is incompatible with democracy and liberal (in the traditional sense) values.

Leaving aside that fact that this claim is false, note that Bob is saying more than that: he is saying that Muslims are incompatible with democracy.

[truth]

For Swedish rape wave see here.

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

Oslo has a rate of rape 6 times higher than NYC due to muslims raping of women. Rape of infidel women is allowed by Islam. see an Australian iman's comments about "uncovered meat" meaning women who do not cover themselves up.

[Jared]

Truth wrote:
"Bob Smith is right. Islam is incompatible with democracy and liberal (in the traditional sense) values. Look at what is happening in Europe. Holland is struggling mightly with this fact as are Denmark and others. Just a preview of what awaits us if we do not take steps to stem the influence of numbers of muslims in this country. Constitutional democracy hangs in the balance."

It could be that. Though, I'm not so sure your statement emphasises Muslim's inherent incompatibility with democracy, or Europe's inherent problem with the assimilation of immigrants into their society.

There are many Muslims in the US, though perhaps not as high a percentage as Denmark, certainly enough that if a majority were not integrated into our society we'd be seeing at least some civil unrest.

As memory serves, I haven't seen any Muslim riots here.

Now, if you want to argue that Islamic doctrine is not compatible with democracy, by my guest. As I see has already been touched on, we could do the same thing with just about ANY religious text.

[truth]

Rapes in Norway

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2006/07/norwegian-authorities-still-covering.html

[highnumber]

Truth,

I would have thought that the early frost was bad for the grapes. Is that why they like them covered?

[Lamar]

"Islam is incompatible with democracy and liberal (in the traditional sense) values."

And so is Christianity and Judaism, plus many other religions. As Thoreau noted, this only matters with respect to the hardcore fundamentalist. You don't see Bush sacrificing lambs, do you?

Bob, as for your view that Islam deems itself the original relgion, perhaps you should read The Age of Caliphs. Heck, read anything other than The Weekly Standard. You clearly don't know anything about the history of Islam or "replacement theology." Perhaps if you did, you would know not to confuse radical Islamic rhetoric with moderate religions that pick and choose which doctrines to adhere to. See, for example, Christianity in America. Thankfully, you don't seem to be a bigot, just a completely uninformed person willing to blab an opinion without any real knowledge.

[VikingMoose]

Wow. Truth - you're a complete asshole.

Oslo isn't in Sweden.

Men takk, at Du vil spile med!

(det er fantastisk - jeg kan forn?rme Deg i tre forskjellig sprog!)

[Thomas Paine\'s Goiter]

For Swedish rape wave see here.

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/12/immigrant-rape-wave-in-sweden.html

Oslo

...is in Norway?

[caesar]

Truth-
Just be sure you also protect our pure, Anglo-Saxon southern women from the Negro menace.

[Ron]

Truth and Bob: Did you float over from Daniel Pipes' page? The interesting thing about Daniel to me is the careful way he avoids the logical implications of his assertions. If the holocaust had never happened, I could argue that Mein Kampf did not constitute a specific call to restrict the civil liberties of Jews. Daniel claims to support "moderate" muslims, but then in the same breath suggests that there can logically be no such thing.

[VM]

Ron-

obviously the group home worker started monitoring internet usage, so Truth and Bob won't be joining us for the rest of the day. (I heard that Bob got so excited, that he soiled his helmet! And Truth got to touch Ruprecht on their way to OKLAHOMA!!!

[truth]

Belittle because you are afraid of reality. Continue to put your head in the sand. Read Mark Steyn and others and face reality. Your multiculturist fantasies are just that. I know oslo is in Norway. Those were two separate points idiots. the viking and some others are so stupid. make fun of me if you must. I am highly educated and probably made more money in 2006 than 95% of you (as capitalists you should acknowledge high income as a measure of an individuals worth)

[truth]

I would be proud to have Goode as a representative. But at least I have a GOP congressman, not some liberal, tax raising, politically correct elitist.

[Caesar]

Well truth, you know Im a university student so the little money I have goes to the Commonwealth of Virginia and beer. So you are probably right about the money.

Im not sure what a "multiculturalist" is, but Im pretty sure one is made out of straw.

Lets say you are right, truth. The Mo-zlam hordes are coming. So what should we do with muslims and other scary-looking brown people in the US and Europe? Put them behind barbed wire? I'd like to hear your final solution to the Muslim question.

[highnumber]

as capitalists you should acknowledge high income as a measure of an individuals worth

I acknowledge income as a measure of one's ability to raise capital, never as a measure of one's worth.

[Jared]

Truth wrote:
"I am highly educated and probably made more money in 2006 than 95% of you (as capitalists you should acknowledge high income as a measure of an individuals worth)"

Britney Spears is worth millions. I bet she's

[Caesar]

Truth and Bob, pop quiz--who wrote this?

"[When] the [Virginia] bill for establishing religious freedom... was finally passed,... a singular proposition proved that its protection of opinion was meant to be universal. Where the preamble declares that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed, by inserting the word "Jesus Christ," so that it should read "a departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion." The insertion was rejected by a great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend within the mantle of its protection the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and MAHOMETAN [emphasis mine], the Hindoo and infidel of every denomination."

The answer is that avowed Liberal Elitist Multiculturalist Appeaser Thomas Jefferson.

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1650.htm

[alvin]

Bob,

People like you try to get a lot of mileage out of the doctine of taqiyya. It's sort of a "heads I win, tails you lose" argument. If a muslim is acting fanatical, he's being himself; if he's being tolerant and kind, he's engaged in taqiyya. First off, I doubt most muslims are aware of (or even heard of) taqiyya. Taqiyya is a concept or passage in a couple verses in the koran that some (few) shia-muslims have used in the past when threatened with imminent danger by other sunni muslims. They renouned their shia-faith to save their lives in self-defense against non-shia muslims, if you will. Congressmen Goode is not renouncing his faith in immediate life danger. Just the opposite. He is affirming his faith in public.

[Jared]

Sonuva...

Yes, millions. Brilliant political commentary. etc.

I tried to give you a little credit, Truth. Just a smidge of thought to your arguments. Clearly, however, you'd rather take an exotic voyage to Incoherent, Rantistan.

Wish I had the money to take a nice vacation and, of course, speak in fearless disregard of reality.

[Jeff Fecke]

Read Mark Steyn and others and face reality

Well, which do you want me to do?

[Caesar]

If Mark Steyn predicts Muslim hordes will overtake Europe, it will probably turn out to be about as true as his various other predictions. Via his Wikipedia entry-

""Apart from predicting that George Bush would win the 2000 presidential election in a landslide, Steyn said at regular intervals that Osama bin Laden "will remain dead". Weeks after the invasion of Iraq he assured his readers that there would be "no widespread resentment at or resistance of the western military presence"; in December 2003 he wrote that "another six weeks of insurgency sounds about right, after which it will peter out"; and the following March he insisted that: "I don't think it's possible for anyone who looks at Iraq honestly to see it as anything other than a success story"

This is the guy who you say is correctly predicting the future of Europe? You might want to try someone else who hasn't gotten everything in the past six years absolutely wrong.

[truth]

Jared,

Spears performed songs than millions thought enough of to buy. So evidently many thought she produced something of great worth. From a capitalist perspective, the market does not lie but shows what society values enough to spend mass amounts of money on. So Spears evidently brought entertainment to vast amounts of people, something not to be derided but celebrated in a capitalist consumer driven society, regardless of ones personal view of her talent or lack thereof.

That was a throwaway line anyway, I don't really mean it except that those who earn a great deal of money are doing something of value to someone (except those getting government contracts to build bridges in Alaska).

[VikingMoose]

This is great. How much you wanna bet that Bob, Truth, Dave W, Dan T, John, and Juanita are all the same person sitting in grandma's basement, spanking to old national Geographic magazines?

But in the meantime, um, Truth, that's great that you're so educated. You probably are in the top echelon of your group home! And you probably play a mean kazoo! With Bob backing you up, exploring the space, with the COW BELL!

Now that you've had time to look it up, you *do* see where Oslo is? Right? And, to be fair, Norway was a part of Sweden until something like 1905. You do get partial credit for showing your work, even though the answer to 1+1 you gave is wrong.

To end this on a friendly note, we will have a Shirley Temple with you when your taint cheese clears up, tho! Keep it up, Kiddo!

[Jared]

"That was a throwaway line anyway, I don't really mean it except that those who earn a great deal of money are doing something of value to someone"

I understand. No one was taking your opinion at face value, so you had to assert your dominance over this teaming mass of proles. Facts, of course, are time consuming things to accumulate to back up an argument - doubly so when they don't actually exist. Naturally, the only option left was to state the only quantitative measurement of a person's intellectual capacity; monetary income.

A shrewd and decisive tactic. I mean, Britney totally ended all public criticism of her camera-hungry hoo-ha by stating how much more she was worth than all those "Traditional Values" advocates.

[de stijl]

Caesar,

Well, if you don't trust Mark Steyn, there's always Gates of Vienna which, according to truth, is also an unimpeachable resource for information on all things swarthy.

[VikingMoose]

De Stijl:

does "Gates of Vienna" have a Scheisse Video section? You know, the Swarthy Taint section? or the "Darkened Cooter" or the like?

Jared:
"A shrewd and decisive tactic."

Well, the man did say how educated he is!

[Chris S.]

I am highly educated and probably made more money in 2006 than 95% of you

Followed immediately by:

But at least I have a GOP congressman, not some liberal, tax raising, politically correct elitist.

Phew, at least you don't have to worry about "elitism." Here's some advice: When being a hypocrite, try to separate your contradicting statements with at least two comments. Sorry if that advice sounds "elitist."

[de stijl]

VikingMoose,

In the Gates of Vienna video content, the Scheisse is carefully and artfully deposited in a crescent shape so when it is subsequently consumed, it symbolically sends an implicit message of unbowed pride and honor. We will not be conquered by the crescent! We will conquer it!

Think of it as a German croissant.

[Lamar]

How did this thread evolve into "Brittany sells a lot of CDs and is therefore worth listening to"? Isn't it just as reasonable a conclusion to say that modern parents really suck and can't say no to their kids' desire to buy stupid crap?

[VM]

De Stijl:

A German Croissant.

[racks brain, trying desperately to get in some sort of "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey" WWII joke. Cannot. /kicks pebble]

With the accompanying "Eine Kleine Scheissmusik" and "An der sch?nen Braunen Scheisse"

[de stijl]

Best enjoyed with a chilly glass of Liebfrauscheisse?

[Caesar]

Im still waiting for the 'final solution to the muslim question' from Lone Wacko, Bob, Truth, Mark Steyn, LGF and their ilk.

They always bitch and moan about a muslim "invasion" but they never seem to offer a real solution.

[JimBo]

Of course Ron Bailey in a fit of political correctness is misrepresenting what Virgil Goode said. Goode was speaking about immigratin and he's right. Why on earth is it so hard for some to understand that Islam isn't compatiable with western liberal societies. Do we want a permanent infada like the French now have in their suburbs???

[Caesar]

Jimbo-

The French experience suggests that a large, overbearing and socialist welfare state is incompatible with large-scale immigration. It has nothing to do with Islam or 'liberal democracy'.

Perhaps if the French did not have an economic system which discriminates not only against immigrants but against young people in general, combined with comfy welfare that gives said people way too much time on their hands when they are unemployed, the riots probably would have never happened. Algerians would be assimilated into French society the same way third generation Asians and Hispanics (and Arabs, for that matter) are in America.

[Chris S.]

JimBo,

Immigratin leads to infada? Hey, I know you can't read very well, but could you get someone else to read you the "native-born" part of Ron Bailey's post before you write any more comments about "immigratin."

[VikingMoose]

ChrisS, Caesar:

That's Bob's and Truth's new handle. He thinks that he's showing that many people share his belief. And, remember, how rich and educated he is, he could hire more people than we could to read the article to him (hilarious)!

De Stijl:

LOL!!!!!!!

[juris imprudent]

Why on earth is it so hard for some to understand that Islam isn't compatiable with western liberal societies.

I dunno, maybe in France it has to do with the fact that the French treat Algerians, etc. (i.e Muslims) a lot like Southern Whites treated Blacks in the early 1900s. All in the great tradition of the western liberal society after all.

[JimBo]

Chris S. , I know Ellison was born here and converted to Islam. Big follower of Calypso Louie's Nation of Islam. Again, that's not what Goode is talking about. Immigration. Perhaps we should import 50 million devout Muslims. Scrap Bush, Kennedy and McCain amnesty and bring in nothing but Muslims.

I'm afraid too many libertarians act like universalist NeoCons.

[JimBo]

No offense Ceasar, but do you ever read any European blogs or papers. Have you been to Europe recently?? I was there in the summer of 2006 for 2 months. All anyone talks about is Muslim immigration. They want them out! Even in the beacon of diversity, tolerance and multiculturalism, Denmark, they want the Muslims out

I predict France will be in a full scale civil war within 15yrs that will spill over into other countries.

Painful to watch!

[Caesar]

JimBo-

I've been to Sweden and lived in Holland for three months.

Neither seemed like a bastation Sharia law. Certainly not Holland--legal prostitution and drug use, anyone? Not exactly Saudi Arabia.

And did you read my post, Jimbo? I said socialist welfare states are incompatible with large-scale immigration. It has nothing to do with religion--in fact the rioters in France were not religious at all. Many of them wore football jerseys and listened to rap music. Not something the imams would approve of.

If the economic system of France were open to upward mobility and not stiffled by high taxes, regulation, and guranteed employment for older people, North Africans would be assimilated into French society right now.

Again, Jimbo, whats your solution for France? If the issue really is religious and cultural and not economic, what should France do with all those scary Moz-lams? Whats your final solution?

[Caesar]

I also like to know if you think Thomas Jefferson was a "liberal multiculturalist"--whatever the hell that means--when he said that the US could he home to the "Jew and Gentile, Christian and Mahometan [Muslim], Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination"?

[JimBo]

Caesar, its obvious you haven't been to Sweden recently because you'd know that the 2nd largest city has large zones that are no go areas for native Swedes. In fact, there's a gang rape epidemic in the northlands of Europe. And if you think a socialist welfare state isn't compatiable with large scale immigration, just what do you think we have here in the USA? The late Milton Friedman was one of the few so called libertarians who understood that mass immigration with a welfare state only leads to more welfare. As a long time resident of California, Professor Friedman was talking about the USA. And yes, the riots in France were religious in nature.

[Jon H]

It only looks like a Muslim Rape Wave in contrast to the centuries-long Christian monopoly on rape.

[highnumber]

Caesar,

Face it. You lost. JimBo won. It does not matter what facts you bring to play. It does not matter that Friedman's comment was about welfare, not immigration. It doesn't matter that our welfare state does not come close to rivaling those in Europe. It doesn't matter that our history of pluralism is nothing like European states' history of nationalism.
JimBo is right, and no one can convince him otherwise, save his Lord Jesus Christ, and Jesus is too busy on the phone with Pat Robertson to talk to JimBo.

[Caesar]

Highnumber-
You responded better to Jimbo's post than I ever could have.

Jimbo, for the sake of argument I will say you are right. So what in hell's name is your solution?

[Viking Moose]

Jimbo:

two whole months?

woah! you international man of mystery, you!

two months! amazing. you really know the ropes, dontcha.

hey - check out this Danish blog, liberator.dk. Such a powerful, rich, (well hung, of course), um, "man" such as yourself shouldn't have a problem with the language!

what we have here is a selection bias.

Highnumber and Caesar:

you're both right, of course, but this Vizzini-like genius really couldn't go unpraised!

Du m? ha' det, Jimbo. Og glemme ikke at rende mig.

[highnumber]

JimBo is right? Inconceivable!

[JimBo]

Highnumber, seperation from Islam. Normally I'm very laissez faire markets. Down with the FED Reserve, up with Free Banking and Gold. But the rise of Islam started with the discovery of oil in the Middle East. . We need an alternative energy source . Lets starve Islam of its money. That means Saudi Arabia which funds all the radical nonsense.

Next, immigration. How many Churches are being built in any majority Moslem country??? Next to none. But Mosques are being built throughout the west. Conversion in every Muslim country, even Turkey is still punishable by death.

The West needs to regain its confidence. Western Civlization. Whether you're a Randian, Classical liberal, Rockwellian Rothbardian, or Reaganite, Reason, Science, and Individual rights are Western Civilization.

Why would anyone be surprised the Muslims act like Muslims. Sharia.

Perhaps Ron Bailey would like to explain what would be wrong with the USA bringing 50 million very devout Muslims to this country. I'd be very curious to hear his answer.

[highnumber]

Perhaps Ron Bailey would like to explain what would be wrong with the USA bringing 50 million very devout Muslims to this country. I'd be very curious to hear his answer.

JimBo, poopyhead, who suggests bringing 50,000,000 of any people here? Why the hell would 50,000,000 people show up here at once? What the hell do you think you are talking about?

(In Ronald Bailey's honor, FULL DISCLOSURE: I am a deist, not a Christian. I have known Muslims. I have prayed with Muslims. They were good people. They were, on average, more tolerant than the Christians I have known.)

[JimBo]

No offense Highnumber, but your posting on a forum that supported the Kennedy, Bush,MCcain Senate Amnesty bill from the spring of 2005 which would have brought in 200 million immigrants over the next 20yrs. 10 million a year.

So what's wrong with adding 5 million very devout Muslims every year to that number.

[mrbill]

Dont care where he puts his hand, on the Koran or in his pants. But Goode is right about bringing in more Islamists.

Here is Mr. Hooper of CAIR to reinforce this concern:
====================================

"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future. But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through education."

Ibrahim Hooper, National Communications Director for the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). The Minneapolis Star Tribune.

And Mr Ellison is a proud puppet of said group. Well documented in several articles in the tribune and via researching him.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

"There is evil in every berry of grape."-Koran

I rest my case. 🙂

[de stijl]

mrbill has made the scales fall from my eyes. Those wily Moslems want to educate non-Moslems about Islam with an eye towards converting the infidels.

Damn you, Ibrahim Hooper, damn you straight to hell!

If only some other non-Islamic religions had thought about proselytizing and evangelizing about their faiths to the Moslems we would have converted them all to our faith. If only we'd tried!! Damn, some sort of a crusade would have been perfect.

Cause it's as plain as the red playdoh nose on mrbill's face that we are hopeless against education efforts from faiths other than are own. Once we hear their story, we gotta convert.

Goodbye, Lady Liberty! We had a good run.

[VM]

de Stijl - we can have "Bob" give Mrbill a German croissant, and he'll probably mellow right out!

(our international "man" of mystery knows a discount shop, too! Right off of the Scheissdamm Strasse)

[lunchstealer]

Hooray!

Bob has shown us the light, and now we can protect the Constitution by incorporating a test to screen out any congressman whose religion is incompatible with Constitutional governance.

Oh goody, now we can REALLY defend the Constitution. What bit will we defend first? Ooh, here's a good one. "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution"

Ah, well that's already covered. Let's check the next sentence. I bet there's something we can defend in there!

"but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Oh yeah, we can totally do that! We just have to get rid of that religious test that we put in.

OH MY GOD! Now Muslims can get in! Quick - put in a religious test! Ahhhhh, that's better. But wait! Now we have to remove the religious test to preserve the Constitution.

Ow! Ow! My brain is hurting from the Constitutional Conundrum! We have to destroy it to save it!

Aw fuck it. Let's just ignore that 'no religious test' clause. I heard somebody say something about a 'living document' so we don't have to actually pay attention to the actual words, do we?

[highnumber]

No offense Highnumber, but your posting on a forum that supported the Kennedy, Bush,MCcain Senate Amnesty bill from the spring of 2005 which would have brought in 200 million immigrants over the next 20yrs. 10 million a year.

So what's wrong with adding 5 million very devout Muslims every year to that number.

Aw, nuts. It's not even worth responding to.

[Caesar]

We have never 'imported' anyone here since 1808, when the slave trade ended.

Those Muslims that come here do so by their own free will. I know you probably jerk off to "Camp of the Saints" every night, but there is no way in hell 50,000 (or whatever) people would show up here, all at once, unannounced. Or, even more rediculous, that the federal government would actually *force* them all the come here.

[Caesar]

Oh, and JimBo, is Thomas Jefferson not 'western' enough for you? Read what he said about religion in America again. Start by looking at the quote about 'Mahotemans' you ignored.

[VikingMoose]

Caesar: remember that JimBo has spent 20 minutes in the Toronto Airport, making him an international man of mystery. And once he joined the "mile high club" (solo chapter). TJeff certainly isn't "western" enough for such a sophisticate as himself!

(and if he asks nicely, he can borrow my blow-up Noam Chomsky doll - provided he, unlike "Truth", doesn't return it in a soiled state - that might be a fun additive to "Camp of the Saints")

[dhex]

man, the moose let loose is a sight to behold.

[JiimBo]

Even New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman has called for the west to seperate itself from Islam. The tolerance crowd just goes out of its way to show tolerance to a culture and religion that has zero tolerance for them. It's hilarious.

[de stijl]

The extra "i" in Jiimbo stands for international.

Viking Moose,

Your Noam doll would be returned with the faint residue of a Dirty Sanchez. And how does a blow-up doll produce the necessary matter for a Dirty Sanchez? You don't really want to know. Trust me on this one.

Also, the reason you got it back soiled earlier is that, apparantly, Noam Chomsky cannot handle the truth.

[VM]

OMG!

That's hilarious! Nearly as hilarious as the international "man" (member of the solo mile high club) of mystery citing Thomas Friedman here and expecting us to be impressed!

wow. The "Hot Karl" option for Noam was one I was too scared to order.

Could you imagine what Bob, "truth", and Jiimbo would do to the LEGO Jack Nickelson doll?

wow! the mind boggles!

[de stijl]

I haven't laughed so hard in at least two Friedman Units (FUs).

BTW, I got myself the Michael Moore model Real Doll for Xmas. Worth every penny!

Jiimbo*, the Tolerance Crowd tolerates you right back. Peace, brother!

(* What's the extra "i" stand for in Jiimbo? Iinternational. What's the extra "i" stand for in Iinternational? International House of Pancakes.)

[greg allen]

VIRGIL GOODE: State Joke of Virginia

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