The JonBenet Perplex

Have we been neglectful, not providing any official thread in which to discuss JonBenet Ramsey murder theories and thoughts in the wake of the arrest of Jon Mark Karr? If so, please forgive, and enjoy this cautionary tale from Jim Moscou on the pitfalls of covering this ongoing mystery. And if not, please forgive me for posting this.

Comments

[GM]

Patsy Ramsey in the library with a candlestick.

[Colonel Mustard]

Burke Ramsey in the kitchen with the rope.

[Joe]

Mossad.

[Ken Shultz]

Have we been neglectful, not providing any official thread in which to discuss JonBenet Ramsey murder theories and thoughts in the wake of the arrest of Jon Mark Karr?

No.

...and it's only okay now if you change the headline to include the words "Friday Fun Link".

[Ron Hardin]

NBC's Michelle Kosinski calls in to Imus on the first morning breaking Jon Benet story, with train whistle in background, which she identifies as a ``siren''

[train whistle sounds approaching. Nathan 5-chime, if anybody cares.]

Imus: Michelle ...

Michelle: ..under suspicion for anything else..

Imus: ..Michelle..

Michelle: ..but so far we don't know anything about that. yes..

Imus: what's that noise behind you?

Michelle: ah some kind of a siren, we're in the middle of a town, so things are waking up here and you know people are talking about this case, I mean what a shock after a decade of nobody knowing what hap..

Imus: ..I understand all that it's just ...

Michelle: ..yes..

Imus: ..it sounds like a train is going by..

Michelle: It might be a train, we're not too far from some tracks.

audio http://rhhardin.home.mindspring.com/imuscut.benet1.ram

The I-man breaking up the mindless news bunny patter flow.

He doesn't realize : it's for the women.

It's the same clueless reporter, he points out, that was in the ankle-deep canoe shot.

[Karen Cox (still not Jennifer)]

It was Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction.

In the Ballroom with the revolver.

[Mel Gibson]

The Jews did it of course.

[Rich Ard]

But she [Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy.] went on to warn, in an eerie evocation, eyeballing the crowd, ?We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey. Do not jump to judgment. Do not speculate? that Karr is the killer.

No, what she said was "poygnant", I heard it on NPR and almost hit a railing I was laughing so hard.

[O.J.]

All I know is that I was playing golf at the time.

[lexlu]

I've noticed in just about all these stories of killers and pedophiles it's almost always mentioned, "He lived alone." Why don't they say things like, "He was thin"? I mean really, ever notice if any of these guys has been paunchy? Almost all of them seem to be lean, mean, killing machines. "You see folks, if he had just reached for a cheese steak, none of this would have happened. So keep an eye on the tri-athlete next door. Who knows what he's cooking up while flexing those buns of steel."

[thoreau]

Like I posted on my new blog, it's very instructive that a freely obtained confession remains in doubt after a few days, even though the authorities have spent years collecting evidence to check the confession against.

The case for torture is always made on the assumption that there's a ticking time bomb, and the authorities are desperate. So replace the cooperative suspect with a guy who will only talk under torture, the thoroughly investigated case with an alleged ticking time bomb that the authorities don't know much about, and "a few days since the confession" with "only hours until the bomb goes off."

The lesson is that confessions are unreliable things under even the best of circumstances. Under more difficult circumstances, a coerced confession may not only be unreliable, it might even be a distraction at a crucial moment. An innocent person might say what the authorities want to hear so that the pain will stop. A guilty person might make up a fake but plausible story to send the authorities on a wild goose chase, running down the clock. Either way, the coerced confession might cause the authorities to make the wrong call.

I never thought I'd find somethign interesting in the JonBenet Ramsey case.

[thoreau]

Oops, mistake in the link.

Try this.

[Joe]

Mel,

You just can't get the code down, can you?

[rob]

thoreau,
I think that you are 100% on target with the potential unreliability of information obtained through torture. Information obtained without torture is equally unreliable.

I believe torture is immoral, and I have a tough time with the idea that it would ever be justified.

However, having said that... If I had the guy I believed to be the kidnapper of my child, the police would be unwise to leave me alone in the room with the guy and so much as a pair of fingernail clippers...

[Mark Bahner]

"All I know is that I was playing golf at the time.

Comment by: O.J. at August 18, 2006 10:57 PM"

...you mean, as part of your never-ending search for Nicole's killer?

("The guy looked over-clubbed on the 9th. That made me suspicious....")

[peachy]

Thoreau - that's exactly what my human rights professor told us; torture can be very effective when you have plenty of time to apply the pressure... but the one time it won't work is the 'ticking bomb scenario', with a highly-motivated subject who knows exactly how long they have to stall the interrogators.

[Ron Hardin]

Slow and steady wins the race (The Torture and the Hare).

Assuming no steroids.

[agentalbert]

Peachy - As we haven't had any ticking time bomb scenarios (that we know of) in the "WOT", does that mean the torture has been possibly useful, if not morally justified?

[Ron Hardin]

I wonder what a ``human rights professor'' might be.

Have there been moral discoveries?

I know when there's a mandatory seminar at work with an ethics expert, I always raise my hand and ask if it's ever okay to lie.

I mean, it's a shame to pass up the opportunity.

[rob]

Ron's E-V-I-L. Why would you want to make someone actually work for their overblown speaking fee? heh!

[Gators?!?!]

Way I figure it, it was Democrats that killed that poor little John Bennett boy. Why I wuz listenin to Fox, and they had this show on...

-What? Gators in the kitchen?!?!? Fuck!!! I'll be right there-

Sorry, gotta go get them gators out the kitchen.

Again.

[Samuel L. Jackson]

I am sick and tired of these motherfucking gators in this motherfucking kitchen!

[Alex]

Wow, that case started a long time ago. I kind of forgot about it. How could they find a suspect after that long? Weird.

[Bee]

Woo Hoo, T's got a site! It looks nice. Easy to read and well laid out, I mean. Good job!

[peachy]

Well, perhaps I should have said, 'professor teaching my class on the history of human rights,' hey? As to agentalbert's question; my impression from the outside is that most of the AQ bigwigs socked away in the various 'black' facilities have been cracked, by whatever means fair or foul... but of course the interrogators assigned to those places would actually be top professionals with plenty of time to do their thing, unlike the grabass-miscellany-working-in-a-war-zone at Abu Ghraib or Bagram trying to squeeze timely tactical intelligence out of random cab drivers. That doesn't mean that torture in the former circumstances is any less immoral than it is under the latter, just that it is more likely to produce results.

(I might add that the 'history of human rights' class was surprisingly easy - there was remarkably little in it that a libertarian who keeps on eye on current events wouldn't already understand.)

[thoreau]

Bee-

I'm not the guy in charge of the site. Jon Henke's in charge, and it's a group blog. Compliment him on the layout and design.

[Rick Barton]

How about how some guy from the Homeland Security dept posed with the DA and the rest at the press conference??? Lotsa time on their hands and our money...

[happyjuggler0]

How long before I can turn on CNN or FOX and not hear about this daytime talk show type of "news" story?

Sigh.

[Sphynx]

Reasonoids et al:

All these positings and no one mentions the coincidence that the victim and the accused both have the same misspelling for "John"? And would someone, anyone, explain why the media pedophiles, mass murderers, and serial killers (who knows, Karr may be one of the other types as well) must be identified using their middle name?

-----------------------------------------------------

Yes, I already know, Miss Ramsey's propert first name is JonBennet.

[Andrew Young]

It was the kikes, slopes, and dune coons.

[Michael]

Sphinx, they do that to differentiate from other people with similar names. Look what happened to former NBA player Eddie Johnson recently. I am sure he would have been happier if the news reports had been referring to hm as Edward Arnet Johnson, and to the accused child molester/ex-NBA player as Edward "Fast Eddie" Johnson, Jr.

[Mendelism]

Michael,

Good point. Ditto: Jason Williams.

[crimethink]

Yeah, and that guy Jeffery Dohmer in the Special Olympics.

[Robert]

"And would someone, anyone, explain why the media pedophiles, mass murderers, and serial killers (who knows, Karr may be one of the other types as well) must be identified using their middle name?"

Because I knew a John Karr (he was sec'y of the Libertarian Party of New York City), and he'd be really bugged if he weren't distinguished by the middle name.

[happySirhanjuggler0]

Good point about using middle names to differentiate the innocent with the accused and/or guilty.

[James]

Yes, I already know, Miss Ramsey's propert first name is JonBennet.

WAS JonBenet. It seems the blabosphere has forgotten a little girl was brutally murdered a decade ago.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33832

[ed]

The suspect obviously is a fraud.

Can we please move on to the next crime of the century of the week? I hear another white chick is missing...

[Tim]

I didn't know they had Blockbuster's in Thailand. Did they pick him up at work or on his way home from work? Weird.