There wouldn't be no trouble except for that king shit cop

U.S.A.F. senior airman comes back from Iraq in one piece, gets shot three times by a San Bernardino County sheriff's deputy. An amateur video shows the cop shooting 21-year-old Elio Carrion from a few feet away while Carrion is apparently seated or supine, trying to talk to him, and obeying his orders. The cop tells him to get up, then shoots him—which suggests "Get up" may not have been an order but some kind of tough-guy challenge. Or he may have been jittery after a chase that ended in a crash. In any event, he's a goober who shouldn't be carrying a badge. Ironically, Carrion works as a military policeman.

Full story here. Video here and here.

Comments

[GoWhitey]

Well, he was one of them damn mexicans. The cop probably felt justified in protecting his life from that shifty eyed wetback.

[amazingdrx]

Well we know how Alito will rule, if it ever makes that level. Shoot 'em, shoot 'em dead!

That's the reward one can expect for serving in these neoconman oil wars.

[Murray "Superboy" Babitch]

"Gault, can't you see that this guy is crazy??!?!"

-David Caruso

[sudz]

holy nonsequitir, amazingdrx. i got whiplash from that one.

[jf]

Love the post title. Is there a cultural reference I should be getting?

[jf]

Ah, Google says "First Blood". Perfect.

[sudz]

jf - Rambo first blood. just looked it up so you don't have to.

[jf]

Thanks sudz. Sometimes I forget that the answer to damn near anything is a Google search away. At least, it is now until Google goes broke (have you seen their stock chart today?).

[Qbryzan]

The deputy, whose name was not released, was placed on paid administrative leave

Does this count against his vacation time, or is this just a bonus they give to every cop who shoots someone?

[ralphus]

That's the reward one can expect for serving in these neoconman oil wars.

Don't know what that has to do with getting shot by a trigger happy cop. Would the video be any less disturbing if Carrion was a garbage man?

But it did give you a chance to work in your cute "neoconman" line. You have a bright future in the pithy protest sign industry.

[MP]

Carrion was the friggin' passenger, for pete's sake.

[R C Dean]

I've never understood the paid vacation thing as punishment.

I mean, after seeing the videotape, is there any question of keeping him on the force? You hope the big question about this guy is whether to charge him with attempted murder or just assault with a deadly weapon, not how long a paid vacation to give him.

[Joseph Hale]

In the Soviet camps, guards who shot prisoners were also given paid leave. The Supreme Soviet officially disapproved of such behavior, but the camp chiefs often rewarded murderers with extra rations as well. Is there some equivalent of Godwin's Law pertaining to Stalin, or am I in the clear?

[Tim Cavanaugh]

amazingdrx is not alone in that train of thought, actually. I first saw this story on a psychotically anti-Bush mailing list with the subject line "Sam Alito's USA." I'm waiting for Don Rumsfeld to enter, saying "God didn't make him. I made him!"

[wellfellow]

amazingdrx,

I can never tell if you are for real or someone's parody.

[Mr. F. Le Mur]

Article:
Bill Abernathie, president of the sheriff's deputies union, the San Bernardino County Safety Employees Benefit Assn., complained about the video's repeated airing on television.

"To paint every cop in California as bad people because one incident happened, and we don't know the facts, is just wrong," he said.

Bill Abernathie's own words prove him wrong.

Cops are violent and dishonest - so, what else is new?

[thoreau]

I'm pretty sure that at some point we'll be reminded by an irate poster that the cop is innocent until proven guilty, and the burden of proof is on the accusers. And for the purpose of criminal prosecution I agree 100%, but there are actually 2 issues here:

1) Should he retain a position of trust and authority?

2) Should he lose his freedom?

For the first question the burden of proof should most definitely fall on the cop. For the second question the burden of proof should, of course, fall on his accusers. But unless something rather significant comes out, my hunch is that the cop's accusers will have an easy time meeting that burden. He will, of course, have a chance to prove us wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Captain Holly]

amazingdrx is not alone in that train of thought, actually. I first saw this story on a psychotically anti-Bush mailing list with the subject line "Sam Alito's USA." I'm waiting for Don Rumsfeld to enter, saying "God didn't make him. I made him!"

That Sam Alito is more powerful than I thought. First day on the Supreme Court, and this happens.

Just wait until he actually votes...

(Oh, and for the record, I am not the amazingdrx)

[SR]

"holy nonsequitir, amazingdrx."

Not a total non-sequitur. Alito does seem to hold the view that unless a law enforcement officer actually announces, "I am willfully and maliciously shooting you without cause" before firing, it's not any sort of infringement on your due process rights.

[Lowdog]

"You hope the big question about this guy is whether to charge him with attempted murder or...assault with a deadly weapon, not how long a paid vacation to give him."

Amen to that. In fact, I think that cops should be held to a higher standard than us "civilians".

[wellfellow]

Who would win in a fight, Alito or Haliburton?

[ralphus]

Did I miss something? Did Alito have some kind of ruling on what constitutes excessive force by police, or is this just general lefty lashing out?

I didn't follow the Alito hearings. I figured it was kind of pointless. Finding out Bush appointed an anti-abortion, anti-privacy, pro-executive privilege judge is kind of like finding out the new Pope doesn't like gay people. Shocker.

[sage]

Does anyone else have trouble with these pop-up media players? The thing takes forever to load (and I have a T1 at work), then it doesn't even play. The window refreshes and then the caption says something about a woman being pulled from a chimney. Like I can't see that any old day. Sheesh...

[Jennifer]

Did I miss something? Did Alito have some kind of ruling on what constitutes excessive force by police, or is this just general lefty lashing out?

I seem to recall a case where he ruled there was nothing wrong with having the cops strip-search a 12-year-old kid whose father was under suspicion. (Nothing was found on the child, either.)

Sweet land of liberty.

[pigwiggle]

amazingdrx' comment is typical 'visit my blog' trolling. Some looser with a shitty and unsurprisingly vacant blog tries to stir up a few click-throughs with some over the top wing nut garbage.

[ralphus]

Who would win in a fight, Alito or Haliburton?

Haliburton. They would outsource the job to Chuck Norris.

[SR]

"Did Alito have some kind of ruling on what constitutes excessive force by police, or is this just general lefty lashing out?"

See pages 3 through 5 here on "Police Use of Excessive Force": http://www.law.berkeley.edu/news/Liu_Alito_Testimony.pdf

[Redstater]

Sure all you libs want to hate this police officer, but all you saw was this grainy video. I've seen better shots of Bigfoot. We don't know that Carrion was doing, and the officer probably had a good reason to shoot. It's not like he killed the guy or anything either.

The case with the 12 year old -- the girl was the daughter of a family of DRUG DEALERS!!! Those sickos have hidden drugs on kids (theres a proven connection between meth and child abuse) so of course the officers had to check.

Y'all sure are sensitive.

[amazingdrx]

Bingo pig, visit my blog now!! Hehehey.

[Qbryzan]

sage, I usually have better luck with doing the "right-click, save as:" and then playing the file locally. (also on a T1 at work)

Or in other words - yes, I have the same problems with the pop-up media players.

[SR]

"I seem to recall a case where he ruled there was nothing wrong with having the cops strip-search a 12-year-old kid whose father was under suspicion."

See pages 6 through 8 on "Defective Warrants" for that one (and the girl involved was 10 rather than 12).

[amazingdrx]

I have video of Alito shooting a veteran of the Iraq war, while rummi holds him down. Must see!!

[wellfellow]

ralphus,

When Chuck Norris does push-ups, he isn't moving his body, he's pushing the world.

[Brian Courts]

You hope the big question about this guy is whether to charge him with attempted murder or just assault with a deadly weapon, not how long a paid vacation to give him.

Yes, you'd hope. But who would want to bet against the official Sheriff's Department investigation coming the well-worn conclusion that the officer acted within the standards of the Sheriff's Department (which is probably true, in a rather scary sense) for the use of lethal force. They always do. Admittedly it will be interesting to see if they can pull it off in this case, but I don't doubt they'll try. I'm always impressed that no matter how egregious the video evidence there is always someone willing to defend the police action as reasonable under the circumstances.

At any rate, I agree with thoreau that we should keep the criminal prosecution standard separate from the willing to trust with the color of authority argument. Personally I think he should be charged with attempted murder, but regardless of the criminal disposition it should be obvious to all that he has no business being in law enforcement.

It is yet one more example of why the best, most convincing, anti-gun control bumper-sticker ever was "If guns are illegal only the cops will have guns."

[ralphus]

wellfellow,

Chuck Norris is not hung like a horse. Horses are hung like Chuck Norris.

[Jacob]

Redstater,
Why do you hate our troops?

[amazingdrx]

The investigation may rule that as the airman MP was rising it looked to the officer like he was holding a gun.

And that maybe the officer ought to have ordered the veteran to get down on the ground with his hands over his head instead of ordering him to rise.

Just a guess. Will a civil suit follow? Well duuuuh.. (just say duuuuh..bya you all).

[wellfellow]

Ralphus,

The reason we have a war against drugs and a war against terror is because they're a lot easier to win than a war against Chuck Norris.

[David]

I have little doubt that the sheriff's dept will succeed in defendng the deputies actions. Can anyone cite a similar case where a police officer was convicted?

[Redstater]

This Carrion guy wasn't acting in the military, he was home and off duty. He was out hot-rodding and joy-riding with some criminal friend of his and they fled the police. Why can't you libs see that the police need to protect themselves?

[Timothy]

amazingdrx' comment is typical 'visit my blog' trolling. Some looser with a shitty and unsurprisingly vacant blog tries to stir up a few click-throughs with some over the top wing nut garbage.

Maybe I should try being a wingnut, then...or actually posting to my own blog sometimes. Or caring about traffic...

THERE ARE KILLER ROBOTS IN SPACE, PUT TINFOIL ON YOUR WINDOWS!

[amazingdrx]

When cops shooting unarmed veterans is outlawed, only outlaw cops will shoot unarmed veterans.

Thanks to the Bush court, that will never happen! Wheeew.

[amazingdrx]

"THERE ARE KILLER ROBOTS IN SPACE, PUT TINFOIL ON YOUR WINDOWS!"

Calm down, there is hope.

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

[dhex]

you really need to try harder. much harder...'cause you're just not making the cut, and frankly, i'm considering bringing M1EK back and replacing your position.

i want to see better numbers this coming month, and we'll talk during your review at the end of february.

[Timothy]

dhex: Dr X needs to type in more capitals, I tried to make up the deficiency left by M1KE, but aside from the outburst above about our imminent robotic doom, I just can't bring myself to do it.

[Hakluyt]

Did I miss something? Did Alito have some kind of ruling on what constitutes excessive force by police, or is this just general lefty lashing out?

Yes. During his time in Reagan's Justice Department Alito wrote a memo in regard to a case (Tennessee v. Garner) that concerned a claim of excessive force. A fleeing teenage burglary suspect was shot in the head as he was climbing a chainlink fence (as I recall, the amount of money he had stolen was approximately $10-20) and Tennessee claimed that its policy of using deadly force against burglary suspects was constitutional (the policy was found both in statute and in the particular police department's procedures). The Reagan administration (you know, the whole "choose life" crowd) argued in favor of the state and Alito drafted a memo in that regard. Whether they wrote an amicus brief I can't recall, but that wouldn't be surprising coming out of the Solicitor General's office. Anyway, the Supreme Court struck down the Tennessee practice as a violation of the 4th Amendment and restricted the use of deadly force. Now whether the memo reflects Alito's true views is another matter, especially in light of his role as a creature of his client and the distance in time from the time of the case (1984 0r 1985). Indeed, as I recall Alito eventually used Garner as a citation in a case upholding a plaintiff's right to sue in a suit quite similar to Garner in its facts.

One thing you should never do is depend on Jennifer when it comes to legal analysis.

[Captain Holly]

regardless of the criminal disposition it should be obvious to all that he has no business being in law enforcement.

I would agree. He fired four shots at point-blank range; fortunately, only three hit and none were fatal. He clearly panicked for some reason -- which may or may not have been justifiable -- and just started blasting away. Or he may just be a lousy shot.

Either example doesn't instill much confidence.

[amazingdrx]

"That's the reward one can expect for serving in these neoconman oil wars."

To come home to a civil rights free, new improved nation riddled with tyranny by the dark forces of the duuhbyaist regime...

...after fighting in oil wars to bring the divine freedom guaranteed by the duuuhbyaist gaaawd to every human on earth

(at least humans that live above vast pools of oil or other valuable natural resources easily turned into money and power, for the glory of the one true cililization, based upon the one true religious and cultural tradition! The neo-conservative one!!)

[sudz]

Not a total non-sequitur.

pardon me, SR..I was referring to the second half of the statement, re: neoconman oil wars. The Alito thing was at least tangentially related.

[smacky]

I've been absent from H&R for quite a spell recently...it's good to see that Hak is still ad hominem'ing regulars with the best of them. 🙂

Also, when I get more time to catch up on here, I will have to get more familiarized with our newer trolls. (welcome!)

[ralphus]

wellfellow,

I know that cheif export of Chuck Norris is pain and that he has counted to infinity twice, but he is not the only badass on the block.

I submit to you Jack Baur.

The reason the terroists attacked New York was because Jack Baur was in LA.

Jack Baur once lost his car keys. He tortured himself for 24 hours until he reveald their location.

If Jack Baur shoots at you and misses he was aiming at another terrorist 20 miles away.

Superman wears Jack Baur underwear.

If you wake up in the morning it's because Jack Baur allowed you to live.

[Kwix]

I find this set of phrases very interesting.
Officials said the deputy pursued the Corvette because the driver was speeding. Carrion was a passenger in the car.
...
The driver, Luis Fernando Escobedo, 21, was arrested on suspicion of felony evading. The district attorney's office has not filed charges against him, however, and he was scheduled to be released from jail Tuesday night, officials said.

So, cops attempt to pull him over for speeding, he guns it, cops chase, he crashes into a fence, cops get both people out of the 'vette and shoot the passenger but don't bother charging the driver for speeding, felony evasion, or damaging the fence? Welcome to the Kountry of Kalifornia.

[smacky]

Clarification: when I said "newer trolls" I wasn't referring to Hakluyt as a troll; my first thought was unrelated to my second one. I just meant "newer" in comparision to our old standbys (hi, Juanita!). (In case anyone thought otherwise.)

[ralphus]

Thanks Hakluyt. That clears it up.

But, like I said before, the Republican president nominated a conservative hardass and the Republican Congress approved him. Shocker

Duuuhbyaist? Seriously man you're missing your calling.

Protest Signs by amazingdrx. No lefty clich? too inane.

[Timothy]

Hooray for smacky!

Nice to see another familar...internet name. I've been absent too, damnable day job keeping me busy. Dr. X is pretty amazing, although a bit too one-note for my trolling tastes.

[wellfellow]

Ralphus,

By Jack you must mean Vin, and by Baur you must mean Diesel.

Vin Diesel was born and the nurse said, "Oh My God", after which they had sex. This was his third time.

When Vin Diesel only kicks your ass, be grateful for his infinite mercy.

[Brian Courts]

Carrion was a passenger in the car.

So what crime did the officer suspect him of committing while in the passenger seat? Was he not wearing his seatbelt during the chase?

[wellfellow]

Ralphus,

The reason we have Saints is so that when Vin Diesel decides to invade heaven, he has something to eat.

Vin Diesel is an actor because he doesn't want to lay-off the entire US military.

Chuck Norris is Vin Diesel's homunculus.

[Hakluyt]

smacky,

I've not been here much recently either. I've been working on getting a house ready for sale.

[Isaac Bartram]

Was he not wearing his seatbelt during the chase?

Well..., yeah..., why without a seatbelt on he might get killed or something.....

[amazingdrx]

" Or he may just be a lousy shot."

Or was it, an act of god?

"..and I shall strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who would poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the lord, when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

[ralphus]

wellfellow,

Can we get this thread back on topic please?

Judge Alito doesn't just rule. He rules your lame ass.

Judge Alito hates abortion because Judge Alito was aborted and lived to seek revenge.

Judge Alito wife cries because Judge Altio is hung like Chuck Norris.

The chief export of Judge Alito is excessive force.

When Judge Alito slams the gavel it registers an 8.9.

[R C Dean]

I'm pretty sure that at some point we'll be reminded by an irate poster that the cop is innocent until proven guilty

No, he's not innocent until proven guilty. He is either innocent or guilty regardless of whether anyone puts him on trial or presents a case against him.

Based on the video footage, I would say guilty as hell. Seeing as the guy he shot was a passenger and hadn't committed any crime, and he shot four times at point-blank range, I'd go with attempted murder. By the time you pull the trigger the third or fourth time, you're definitely trying to kill the guy.

[David]

So what crime did the officer suspect him of committing while in the passenger seat?

Abetting felony evasion maybe? I'm sure that he'd be charged as an accomplice to whatever charges Escobedo faces.

I'm curious as to why he tried to outrun a simple speeding ticket. I could see if the car was stolen, or they had a body in the trunk, but just for speeding? It doesn't seem worth the risk.

[zero]

Brian,

Obviously anyone who is in a car that is speeding and refusing to stop is a VERY DANGEROUS person who may be shot. Besides what choice did the officer have? The passenger identified himself as a soldier who as you should know has been trained to kill. There was no way he could have just cuffed him because he still could have threatened the officer.

[Isaac Bartram]

I've been working on getting a house ready for sale.

Hope you can unload it before the bubble pops. 🙂

Just kidding. There was a thing on NPR this AM about the bubble bursting. I didn't really get whether they thought it would burst or just "adjust" or something. My brain's still in a fog at about 6:15 AM so I miss half of what's said.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

On Tuesday, U.S. Atty. Debra Wong Yang asked the FBI to look at the incident to determine whether the deputy violated Carrion's civil rights

That is such bull shit terminology. The sheriff shot the guy after he ordered him to get up, I'd call that attempted murder. Then the cops tried to surpress the video until they found out the hard way that there was a copy of it on TV. I'd call that conspiracy.

[Jennifer]

I'm curious as to why he tried to outrun a simple speeding ticket.

Yeah, it's not like Hispanic guys have any reason to fear the cops. . . .

[Lowdog]

TWC - good points. Seems to me most all the officers present, if they were really trying to supress the video (which I've seen cops try to do many times), should be charged with accessory.

I also love how you can hear the cop shouting "Shut the fuck up" to someone. Whether it's the poor guy rolling around on the ground, screaming and moaning from multiple gunshot wounds or someone else asking the cop what in the hell he was doing, it's pretty obvious that cop has a problem and should no longer be able to be a cop, even if he isn't thrown in prison for a good 10+ years.

[Colossal Caver]

A burly troll stands by the bridge and insists you throw him a treasure before you may cross.

[Stevo Darkly]

Oh, good. I was going to repost some recent Chuck Norrisisms that I'd already put up at grylliade.org, but thanks to ralphus, I can take his lead and repost them as Alitoisms instead.

Judge Alito doesn't read books. He just stares them down until he gets the information he needs.

The universe isn't expanding. It's running away from Judge Alito.

[Timothy]

A burly troll stands by the bridge and insists you throw him a treasure before you may cross.

Good thing I brought all that Alchemist's Fire. I'll throw the troll that.

[wellfellow]

Ralphus,

Judge Alito might be reading this, so I fear for my family, my country, and my species.

When the Democrats wanted to stop Judge Alito, he was hoping they meant nuclear assault, so at least he'd have a challenge.

King Kong was supposed to be about Judge Alito, but the writer's couldn't think of any credible way to kill him.

He's called 'Judge' Alito because no one should forget who REALLY judges you at the end of days.

[amazingdrx]

"Alchemist's Fire"

Sorry we accept mastercard or visa only.

[Lowdog]

wellfellow - Kong dies at the end?!?!?!? Why did you not warn me of your damnable spoiler?!?!?!?

[sudz]

I'm sure the guy said he had a bomb. We just didn't hear it, and nobody else did either.

[Larry A]

Thanks to the Bush court, that will never happen!

The "Bush court" is at fault because a cop from one of the bluest cities in one of the blueist states goes rogue?

[amazingdrx]

Yes, they are!

[S. A. Alito Jr.]

Judge Alito might be reading this, so I fear for my family, my country, and my species.

He's called 'Judge' Alito because no one should forget who REALLY judges you at the end of days.

wellfellow, that would be Justice Alito to you now...

[sage]

Hey ralphus and willfellow,

Thanks for laughs - most I've had in a while. Now if you were talking about Kim Jong Ill, I'd know you were serious.

[Mechanic]

sudz,

Somebody set up us the bomb.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Red Stater, Fortunately, the statute has run so I can admit to having outrun the cops twice in my life. Maybe I should be shot?

[Captain Holly]

Or was it, an act of god?

"..and I shall strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger, those who would poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the lord, when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

No, that would be an act of Tarantino, who is most assuredly not God.

[Pro Libertate]

The Wine Commonsewer,

There is no statute of limitations on defying authority. Please report to Disintegration Chamber #30. Your cooperation is appreciated.

[David]

Yeah, it's not like Hispanic guys have any reason to fear the cops. . .

I didn't mean for my comment to sound accusatory. Just sort of wondering "What is he, fucking crazy?" Outrunning the police never works, you put innocent bystanders in danger, and as we've seen time and again, you're really screwed when they finally catch you.

None of that thinking is meant to excuse the deputy for shooting an unarmed man in the back. How long before the "stressful, difficult job requiring split second decisions where people make mistakes" argument is used by his representation?

It's strange that as they've become tougher in their enforcement methods, some police have really become total pussies.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

I'm curious as to why he tried to outrun a simple speeding ticket

Stupid is as stupid does. It's simple, the guy didn't want the ticket. Lacking the brains to realize that you can't outrun radio or Huey Cobras, he hammered it.

[Jeff]

Amazingly, I feel I have to agree with Captain Holly's thoughts here-- apart from all the other issues, the cop fired 4 shots with a what, 9mm or .40 caliber pistol, from about 3 feet away, and only managed to wound the poor bastard? WTF? Maybe the cop was on meth-- I hear that stuff kills.

I used to be fairly sympathetic to cops in post-high-speed chase situations (and other stressful scenarios) who go a little overboard. But more and more incidents like this (and the increasingly senseless use of tazers to subdue grandmas and 5 year olds and everyone in between, the use of SWAT teams to serve every kind of warrant under the sun, etc.) have eroded that sympathy almost completely.

[wellfellow]

"wellfellow, that would be Justice Alito to you now..."
I was right, you ARE reading this!

In 1967, Justice Alito lit his cigarette off of Detroit.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

There is no statute of limitations on defying authority. Please report to Disintegration Chamber #30. Your cooperation is appreciated.

Pro....be right there, don't wait up though.

Low, my unauthenticated hear-say came from a client who said........the news said the video was turned over to the cops who stonewalled until our local TV stations began showing a copy on the news.

I didn't see the video on TV (saw that tiny little version on some news site) but my guy saw it on the Big Screen and said it was pretty clear to his Red State mind (no bleeding heart, he) that the cop intended to do serious damage and seemed to deliberately set the victim up. His comment to me:

some police shootings are just, this one definitely was bad

I second that.

[Timothy]

Give cops tranquilizer guns. Or Nerf ones.

[Stevo Darkly]

Y'know, my sympathies always used to lean toward the cops in these cases, even if I thought they "overreacted." You're a cop: You chase some bad guy, you don't really know how dangerous he might be, you tell him to stop, but he won't stop, so he runs like hell, you run like hell, and you finally catch up with him and knock him down. At this point, your adrenaline level must be pretty high. And it's because the perp provoked you. If he gives you any slightest bit of resistance after he's downed, you might not be able to take it very calmly. You might overreact.

But damn! Once the perp is down and giving up and following orders, he can't give up any more than that! At that point, is there anything he can possibly do avoid being beaten?

Check out this other video. On Monday, a guy sped through the St. Louis suburb of Maplewood. The police box in his vehicle, which he abandons and flees on foot. The cops run after him. They catch him and take him down. Then, after he is down, a bunch of cops just start punching him. One cop walks away from the subdued suspect, then walks back and kicks him for no apparent cause.

Video:

http://cbs5.com/national/local_story_030182104.html

I'm curious as to why he tried to outrun a simple speeding ticket

Maybe because now the word is out that even if you are down or give up, the cops will beat you up anyway? Better to take a chance on getting away.

[Pro Libertate]

When do phasers get invented? Or, more specifically, stun? They sure would break the ice at parties.

[Timothy]

I'm quite serious about my tranquilizer guns for cops proposal. What would be the problem with that?

[John]

I haven't watched the tape other than excerpts on CNN, so I cannot say one way or another if the cop was right in shooting the guy. My guess is that he wasn't. That said, there are a ton of innocent people who are killed and maimed every year as a result of accidents which occur during high speed chases. By running from the cops, this knucklehead put God knows how many people in danger. That alone doesn't justify shooting him, but it probably justifies kicking the shit out of him, kicking him out of the air force and throwing him in jail for a couple of years. I really no tolerence of sympathy for him. If the cop was wrong in shooting him, then fire the cop and charge him with a crime, just make sure that this moron goes to jail with him.

[thoreau]

Timothy-

Dead suspects can't testify about police misconduct.

[Jbold1]

Whatever happened to "two to the body, one to the head?"

[Lowdog]

John - the guy who got shot was a passenger in the car that was running from the cops. I'm not saying he's a saint, but what was he supposed to do? Jump out of the speeding vehicle? Make his "friend" wreck the car into a tree?

He may very well have been complicit in running from the cops, but until all the facts come out, we don't know. And as you said, that's no reason to shoot the guy 3 times point-blank (well, the cop tried to shoot him 4 times but missed once).

Also, it seems to me that the cop shot him "on purpose" not because he was afraid of him. He repeatedly yells at the guy to get up, the guy finally complies (it probably took him awhile to get up because you generally are supposed to stay down when the cops have guns pointed at you), and then the cop opens fire?

Again, this cop should definitely be fired, then tried for attempted murder.

[Pro Libertate]

thoreau, sometimes they might actually be thinking that. It reminds me of my torts professor, who said that you should back up if you run someone over (i.e., wrongful death claims pay less than negligence claims when the plaintiff survives). He was kidding, of course, but it's a disturbing thought. Which is why having everything a cop does on tape makes a lot of sense.

[joe]

Saddam Hussein came out of his hole because he heard Judge Alito had started digging a hole in New Jersey.

[johnl]

Uh, John, the shot guy wasn't the driver.

[Timothy]

Thoreau: True, true. And I'm sure the police would come up with some BS about tranquilizers not penetrating body armor or something. Because so many petty cooks and speeders have a flak jacket on.

[Lowdog]

One more thing - the cops wouldn't have to be so worried about getting shot if we didn't have the War on Drugs.

[Eddy]

Give cops tranquilizer guns. Or Nerf ones.

How about just tranquilizers? Maybe a little lithium to go with it.

[Jamie Kelly]

That video is fucking sick. Fucking shit-ass sick. But man, it's fun! Let's all go get a 120-pack and watch a "Cops" marathon! Whoops. I mean that video is fucking sick.

[Guy]

Would the video be any less disturbing if Carrion was a garbage man?

Yes. The story is even more chilling b/c Carrion was an LEO, he should have been able to get through a police encounter without being shot. It is understandable that perhaps a garbage man who was trying to comply could accidentally make a furitive move that would make an officer nervous.

I'm curious as to why he tried to outrun a simple speeding ticket. I could see if the car was stolen, or they had a body in the trunk, but just for speeding? It doesn't seem worth the risk.

Maybe he wasn't trying to outrun the cops. I wouldn't give the Sherriff's office the benefit of the doubt in this publicized & heated case. The article described it as a "short chase". When you're driving 100mph and you pass a cop, it takes that cop a good bit of time to catch up to you to the point that you notice lights.

[downstater]

Timothy,

i'm completely guessing here - i have no experience with tranquilizer guns whatsoever but i'd suspect that such tranquilizers must be measured in specific doses relative to the recipients weight, etc. so one size tranq dart doesn't fit all which wouldn't be a problem if the goal was to kill, but as a non-lethal method, it could certainly be ineffective given an improper dosage.

in short, it would take too long to ballpark the weight, measure a dose, put it into the gun and then fire it..over and over and over and over and over again at point blank range.

stevo, that maplewood situation is off the wall. no hiding the tapes though as it all went down on friggin live tv!

[Jeff]

Even apart from shooting the suspect at the end, most high speed chases are not worthwhile from a cost-benefit analysis, which is why some police forces have strict rules of engagement on such things-- fleeing murderers you chase, but not jaywalkers who hop into a car and speed off. In this case it looks like they were chasing the guy because he was speeding. I am not sure how adding another speeding car to the equation increased the overall safety of the situation, especially when the cops can call ahead for backup, scramble a police copter, or resign themselves to another speeder getting away with it.

[Crushinator]

Redstater,

Let me guess, does your red state happen to be named "Texas"? The rustic "Y'all" and the fact that you have your head up your ass were subtle clues. You claim the driver was a criminal, yet there was no mention of this in the news article. Does driving almost 100 mph make one a joy rider and hotrodder? Shit, I do that commuting to work everyday. And trying to run away from the cops - this seems like the most sensible response considering the cop's cold-blooded attempt to murder the passenger. This incident will provoke a lot more people to distrust the cops and flee whenever possible.

And what do you have against drug dealers? These are honest folks trying to make a living. They fill a critical need in society, so you should treat them with more respect.

[@gowhitey]

Fuck you!

[John]

If the guy he shot wasn't the driver, then that is different.

[jf]

An aside:

I just had a police telemarketer call me to donate to some program they have here in Akron.

I told him I don't support police stuff. This guy could not have picked a worse time to call me on this.

[RexRhino]

I haven't watched the tape other than excerpts on CNN, so I cannot say one way or another if the cop was right in shooting the guy. My guess is that he wasn't. That said, there are a ton of innocent people who are killed and maimed every year as a result of accidents which occur during high speed chases. By running from the cops, this knucklehead put God knows how many people in danger. That alone doesn't justify shooting him, but it probably justifies kicking the shit out of him, kicking him out of the air force and throwing him in jail for a couple of years. I really no tolerence of sympathy for him. If the cop was wrong in shooting him, then fire the cop and charge him with a crime, just make sure that this moron goes to jail with him.

Except that minorities and poor are often pulled over by the cops on some pretense, brutalized, have their money stolen, and if they aren't 100% cooperative, they are murdered. In many cities, the cops are nothing more than just another armed gang extorting the public (And I am not talking about in the abstract libertarian "taxes are theft" way... I am saying they pull people over, steal their money, sexual assault women, and kill anyone who gets in their way). The cops don't come if your car is stolen, your house is broken into, if you are assulted. They are virtually no different than the bloods and the crips.

So, driving away at high speeds is extremly moral and rational to get away from the police, in the same way it would be OK to drive fast to escape the KKK, or the Bloods or Crips, or whoever.

[smacky]

jf,

One of my friends was phone solicited by a State Trooper fund program, too! WTF!! Now they're paying government employees with tax dollars to call people and ask for more money?

If you give a mouse a cookie...

[wayne]

"The passenger identified himself as a soldier who as you should know has been trained to kill. There was no way he could have just cuffed him because he still could have threatened the officer."

I have to take issue with this. This guy is in the AIR FORCE, hence might have been trained to play golf, or since he is an enlisted guy, to caddy, but he is NOT trained to kill.

[wayne]

"I'm quite serious about my tranquilizer guns for cops proposal. What would be the problem with that?"

They don't work fast enough. When you feel the need to fire off four rounds at a prone suspect three feet away, you need something that will work right now. You don't want to stand there waiting while the perp gets a nice rush as the barbituate takes hold.

[wayne]

"Whatever happened to "two to the body, one to the head?"

Geesh, I have to answer everything. It's two controlled rounds to the thoracic cavity. If the perp fails to stop, then it is one round to the ocular cranial cavity. Got it?

[R C Dean]

That said, there are a ton of innocent people who are killed and maimed every year as a result of accidents which occur during high speed chases. By running from the cops, this knucklehead put God knows how many people in danger.

It takes two to have a high-speed chase. The cops bear some increment of blame for the risks created.

It looks to me like the cop told him to get up so he could claim later the guy disobeyed orders, was threatening, tried to escape, etc. Hard to claim that when the forensic evidence shows the dead guy was laying face down in the dirt when you shot. Get him up, then shoot him.

Of course, it helps not to be a total 'tard with a gun.

[R C Dean]

The passenger identified himself as a soldier who as you should know has been trained to kill. There was no way he could have just cuffed him because he still could have threatened the officer.

Yeah, when ever someone with a service background gets pulled over, the cops should just grease him on the spot.

[wayne]

"Except that minorities and poor are often pulled over by the cops on some pretense, brutalized, have their money stolen, and if they aren't 100% cooperative, they are murdered. In many cities, the cops are nothing more than just another armed gang extorting the public (And I am not talking about in the abstract libertarian "taxes are theft" way... I am saying they pull people over, steal their money, sexual assault women, and kill anyone who gets in their way). The cops don't come if your car is stolen, your house is broken into, if you are assulted. They are virtually no different than the bloods and the crips."

Boo Hoo.

And another thing, you are mixing metaphors here. If you are going to castigate the cops for being racist, then you should have said they are no better that the Aryan Nation and the KKK. The Crips and the Bloods are made up solely of downtrodden minority types.

[TheDumbFish]

One of my friends was phone solicited by a State Trooper fund program, too!

West Virginia has the "West Virginia Troopers Association" which is a privately run organization that I occaisonally receive calls from asking for donatinos. I'd bet the one that called your friend was private too.

[Stevo Darkly]

I just had a police telemarketer call me to donate to some program they have here in Akron.

OT and perhaps in a sense "paranoid" here, but 10 years ago I donated $25 to a fund for families of slain police officers in response to one of those calls. Did again it for the next couple years also. (Then, around this time, I began using a my combination of answering machine and caller ID to make it impossible for any telemarketer to reach me unless I actively sought to be reached.)

Funny thing is, in the time since I donated, I've been pulled over three, maybe times for speeding and never received a ticket, only a warning. That never happened to me before; I always got the ticket.

I don't display a sticker on my car that reveals myself as a donor (although they did mail me one). I wonder if they have me tagged somehow (like when they call in my drivers license) as a donor who should not be made unduly pissed off at police for minor infractions.

Or maybe I'm older now, more respectable looking, and when I speed, it's usually not by that much.

Still, I'm surprised the cops would forego a revenue/quota opportunity unless they thought they had a reason to.

[ralphus]

Justice Alito once choked a man to death using olnly his mind. The mans crime? Calling him Judge Alito.

Justice Alito doesn't go commando under his robe. He goes Alito.

Justice Alito drank Ted Kennedgy under the table. Twice.

[Mo]

Larry,
You are aware that San Bernadino went for Bush in 2004? In fact, he beat Kerry by 12% in the county.

I'm starting to see why some countries don't allow their cops to caqrry guns.

[dave W.]

but don't bother charging the driver for speeding, felony evasion, or damaging the fence?

I wonder if this is routine in cases where there are likely to be civil claims against the p.d., maybe to avoid the possibility of unfavorable evidence for exploitation in the civil trial. Just a thought . . . I have no idea, really.

[Dave W.]

should be --possibility of creating unfavorable evidence--

[bob mologna]

Cops are just flat out bastards, simple as that. Christ on a bike, have any of you people ever been arrested or in prison? Cops and guards are sadistic, dishonest pieces of shit. It's no secret. Sure they have to deal with some real low lives and it's easy to see how they get their attitudes, but anyone who STAYS a cop in the long run does so because he is an asshole. I've got good friends who are EX cops, I've got relatives who are current cops and I regard them with some trepidation. I've seen cops and guards brutally beat people more times than I can count. They think it's funny because they know you can't do a thing about it.

OK, one funny story. The was a guy in prison with me and he had Tourette's syndrome. Everyone knew it including the guards and the warden. They knew they'd get in trouble if they went after him for spewing obscenities and it drove them crazy. Everyone would be lined up, the stormtroopers would be in full gear just looking for an excuse to beat someone down and he'd start in "motherfuckers, somebitches, assholes....." I thought some of those bastards were about to have a vein explode right off their forehead. They were so frustrated that they couldn't beat this guy. Mind you, anyone else would have been beat down.

[bob mologna]

BTW, I didn't hurt, threaten, or steal from anyone to land in prison. Just so you know.

[The Real Bill]

Not all cops are assholes, just a lot of them. I would love to be a homocide detective, but I'd have to be a beat cop first. (I'd ignore a lot of victimless crimes--my partner might not like that.) I've heard that they wouldn't accept me anyway because my IQ is more than 100.

[SixSigma]

It takes two to have a high-speed chase. The cops bear some increment of blame for the risks created.

Completely disagree that this is true. People who engage in crimminal activity and then flee from the cops are responsible for all inherent risks to that behavior. Cops are not responsbile for attempting to arrest crimminals.

If the Cops ever become responsible then all one needs to do is run, and if followed, create even more hazards knowing the cops bear responsibility for those increased risks.

Disclaimer: I agree with others that the officer needs to be crimminally prosecuted and that cops should certainly uphold higher standards than the general citizen. And I also agree with Bob that most cops are dicks, or that the only good cop is an ex-cop.

The statement above the disclaimer only reflects a belief on who bears the responsibility for increased risks during high speed chases.

[Domini Blogimi]

Ralphus and RedStater are both the same person.

They are both Bill O'Reilly...

heh heh

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Stevo, from age 15.5 to about age 25 I'll bet I got pulled over by the cops 200 times. A ton of moving violations, mostly deserved (some not), a billion equipment violations. A bunch of petty harrassment, some scary moments, but mostly just crap. From age 25 on I'll bet I haven't been stopped more than 10 times and I haven't had a ticket in 10 or 12 years. Tlak about profiling? I'm just an old guy in a politically incorrect SUV these days and the cops don't pay me much mind. Even at 80 on the interstate. Course, I pay more attention and I'm more mellow around town, but still.

[SixSigma]

TWC & Steveo -

Completely agree. The fact that I now look & talk like someone who doesn't seem like they'd be doing bads things, as opposed to my younger years, has gotten me out of more than a few tickets. I don't think I get pulled over any less, but I certainly receive fewer tickets.

Of course even the few I receive these days simply go to the lawyer. I usually have to pay double, plus the money to the lawyer ($75), but my ticket magically becomes non-moving.

A fact that actually ticks me off to some extent. It's almost as if they have no issue with admiting two things: all the authorities want is more of my money and the more money you have the easier the "justice system" is on you.

I know, I know, it's like saying the "sky is blue" - but semi-relevant...

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Mo, San Berdoo is a cesspool but didn't this all take place in Chino? Chino is an upscale area on the border of OC that apparently is patroled by San Berdoo County Sheriff. I don't have the dirt but I'm betting the Corvette was high tailing it up a lonely straight stretch of Hwy 71 and passed a cop by mistake.

Six, there's an eternity of difference between pursuing a guy who just held up a bank and a guy who's speeding. And, as I pointed out, you can't outrun a Huey Cobra or a radio, so what's the real point of a mad pursuit?

[taiko]

TWC,

My fiance's parents live in Pomona and I've been to the area a few times--we even looked around at possibly moving to the area before deciding not to...if I remember correctly (and I may be wrong), Chino Hills is the upscale area while Chino itself is a shithole. But I do think they're adjacent.

[TheDumbFish]

Cops are just flat out bastards, simple as that. Christ on a bike, have any of you people ever been arrested or in prison? Cops and guards are sadistic, dishonest pieces of shit.

Really, it's probably as simple as that. They're all bastards. Why else would they become cops?

[Mo]

TWC,
True, but last I checked, the OC wasn't exactly a blue county. Shit I grew up in Anaheim Hills, which is upscale, in Orange County and conservative as all get out. If I remember correctly, Anaheim was (is) the second whitest city (I forgot the exact population definition of city that this survey used) in the country after SLC. Plus what taiko said.

[wayne]

"Six, there's an eternity of difference between pursuing a guy who just held up a bank and a guy who's speeding. And, as I pointed out, you can't outrun a Huey Cobra or a radio, so what's the real point of a mad pursuit?"

If you're the cop who just got passed by a vette doing 100 MPH, how do you know the driver didn't just hold up a bank? A guy driving 100 mph is dangerous, so if you're a cop it seems to me you have a duty to do something. Final small point, the cops don't fly Cobras; Cobras are military attack helicopters, armed to the teeth and designed to destroy tanks and other bad guys.

I knew I would eventually get drawn into this discussion on the cop's side. I watched the video, and it sure looked like there was no reason to shoot that guy, except that he was in the Air Force.

[TheDumbFish]

Still, I'm surprised the cops would forego a revenue/quota opportunity unless they thought they had a reason to.

I think that younger people are considered easy-pickins. They have less resources to fight a ticktet. They'll probably just pay their ticket. Less paper work and hassle.

Also, it's true that an older guy is less likely to be up to mischief. They probably have families. They most likely don't have drugs.

There's a good chance that once they let you go they'll catch the next guy who might be:
a) a better revenue source
b) more of threat
c) less of a hassle
d) someone who will look better as an arrest on the officers record

[SixSigma]

TWC -

I agree there's a difference, but as wayne has pointed out the unkown factor of chasing fleeing suspect is why one must pursue.

I agree with you that helicopters and radios should make it easier for the cops to not push the pursuit into reckless abandon, and common sense should be used, but what if they guy robbed the bank in Backwaters, MO with two cops and no helicopters?

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Final small point, the cops don't fly Cobras; Cobras are military attack helicopters, armed to the teeth and designed to destroy tanks and other bad guys.

Wayne, you missed the sarcasm in my earlier remark--a shortcoming of this medium. Had you been standing next to my fireplace sharing a glass of the red, you would have observed the sarcasm dripping conspiculousy from the corner of my mouth.

And Cobras are cool because when they hover on the flite line they look like big dragonflies.

I don't necessarily fault the coppers for giving chase--merely making the point that sometimes the ends don't justify the means. OTOH, if I blew by a cop at 100 and he lit me up I'd be sitting on the side of the road holding my license and registration out the window before he got stopped.

I'm still thinking about the those Border Patrol guys chasing a car full of illegals down my way that killed a bunch a high school kids in a cross walk. Judgment. Judgemnt.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Dude, TWC said conspicu-lousy

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Six, I'm not against cops chasing alleged bad guys per se. I'm not sure you can codify good sense but if you're pursuing a guy for speeding and he puts the hammer down chances are (as is SOP) the cop already has the plates and has radio'd them in. It simply isn't worth the risk to innocent bystanders to nail a guy whose crime against society is to be running 75 in a 55. Yes I realize the NEW crime is running from the cops but the original beef is a mere traffic ticket.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Mo & Taiko, point taken, Chino is not Chino Hills.

Mo, Anaheim Hills? Wow. I came of age in Garbage Grave. We must be related.

I'm so old that I can remember when there wasn't no 91 Freeway and all the weekend traffic coming back from the river bottled up on Santa Ana Canyon Rd at Imperial. We'd sit there in the middle of the orange groves looking at the billboard that said Anaheim Hills, Coming Soon

When they were building up there Knoll Ranch rd was dirt and you could sit up on the hill with your chick and gaze out at the lights of the OC. At least til the Sheriff came knocking on the window with the nightstick. And you best hope 'Lil Debbie had her shoes on because if she didn't and you were over 18 you just might get hauled in for statutory rape. Had a cop bust me and 'Lil Debbie up there once. Made her call her parents and tell them where she was. Her dad wasn't impressed.

[the United States Air Force]

I have to take issue with this. This guy is in the AIR FORCE, hence might have been trained to play golf, or since he is an enlisted guy, to caddy, but he is NOT trained to kill.

wayne, we have some bad news. About that air support you requested...

[Mr. F. Le Mur]

I'm curious as to why he tried to outrun a simple speeding ticket.

Because it's really easy to do (in the mountains, and when you have a vehicle which does 0-60 in less than 3 seconds) and more fun than getting a piece of paper from some obese clown. 135 in a 45 zone...cya! (I'd been spoiled by the high, and mostly unenforced, speed limits in the Workers' Paradise known as Southern Europe. Now I'm old and wimpy, i.e., a Good Citizen.)

Note to Reason server: the "less than" character confuses you!

[hoho]

Reminds me of a joke about a policeman shooting a fleeing criminal.

"Why did you shoot him 8 times?".

Answer: " I ran out of bullets."

[Pro Libertate]

Mr. F. Le Mur, the "less than sign" should confuse any HTML-based form. It's used for most HTML code, along with its relative, the greater-than sign. However, there is a way to overcome this bias against symbols. Use the HTML code for the symbol instead of just typing it. Thus, < and >.

If you add a & to the beginning of the following, you'll get the symbols you want:

Less-than sign: lt; or #60;
Greater-than sign: gt; or #62;
Less-than or equal to sign: le; or #8804;
Greater-than or equal to sign: ge; or #8805;

For the rest of the code for characters and symbols, go to this site.

[Jennifer]

When Amadou Diallo got shot 41 times I remember thinking that would be the "Rosa Parks Bus Incident" of police brutality--the incident that made everybody say "Enough. This has gone on long enough, and it stops now."

I was wrong, of course. And I don't think THIS will be the RPBI of police brutality, either. So I'm almost afraid to ask this, but--what the hell is it going to take, anyway? How many more people have to be shot or killed by corrupt or incompetent cops before America decides we've had enough? How many more little girls strip-searched by the cops? How many more SWAT team members busting down the wrong door? What the hell is it going to TAKE?

[downstater]

It's almost as if they have no issue with admiting two things: all the authorities want is more of my money and the more money you have the easier the "justice system" is on you.

a recent ticket i received lets you know that if you pay $50 more for your ticket - then you are just considered "under supervision" - and the violation will not be put on any record (saving you the insurance rate boost). so yes, they really don't seem to care, it seems to be pretty much about the money.

also, in illinois a ticket really sucks because it's sop to take your license. your ticket becomes your license. when you mail in your check you have to include a self-addressed stamped envelope to get your license sent back to you through the trustworthy post office.

this is a real headache when all of your credit/debit cards say "ask 4 id" on the back of them.

[dhex]

"When Amadou Diallo got shot 41 times I remember thinking that would be the "Rosa Parks Bus Incident" of police brutality--the incident that made everybody say "Enough. This has gone on long enough, and it stops now.""

dude...you have no fucking idea.

i remember - vaguely, as i was in college at the time - a kid in my sociology of substance abuse class (who not only thought drugs should carry the death penalty, but admitted to crying when wayne gretsky retired.) who said it was clearly an accident.

fucking guido hockey crybaby.

[Jennifer]

Yeah, dhex, I know that now. But dammit, what will it take?

[patriot]

Jennifer, ending the drug war wouldbe a great start.

[Eddy]

Jennifer,
It will take a press that universally draws attention to the crime that this is rather than saying "aww da widdle powice man made an oopsy. Poor widdle over worked stressed out powice man."

Hell, Ruby Ridge and Waco didn't make any long term impact. I'm kinda surprised this even made the news.

[David]

Yeah, dhex, I know that now. But dammit, what will it take?

The same thing it always takes, the tragic death of family members of someone politically connected. People like the wife and kids of a senator on their way to soccer practice.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure even that would make a difference. There seems to be too much "You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" and "We all need to make sacrifices to rid the world of drugs" thinking when it comes to stuff like this. Couple that with a deference to police as incorruptible heroes who never lie, and major change is unlikely.

[wayne]

Ending the war on drugs would be an excellent start. Even if the WOD is ended though, there will still be use-of-deadly force incidents by police that, in hindsight, turn out to have been mistakes. That truly is the nature of the beast and is unavoidable. Perfection in human interactions is unattainable.

[wayne]

"wayne, we have some bad news. About that air support you requested..."

USAF, I understand, there is probably a tee time to be met. If I really need CAS, I prefer USMC or Navy jets anyway. :-]

[Mo]

TWC,
Wow, that's crazy. Garbage Grove was where my family and I lived before we moved to AH. Right by the Fairview exit on the 22.

[Eric the .5b]

The passenger identified himself as a soldier who as you should know has been trained to kill. There was no way he could have just cuffed him because he still could have threatened the officer.

Another reason not to join the military - if you're involved in a traffic stop, cops apparently have to summarily execute you.

At least, they have to in fucktard bizarro land.

[johnl]

Mo, I moved in 1990 from Imperial and Orangethorpe to Fairview and Seagerstrom. Now I'm in SD, but work in OC. Maybe we could all meet up someday at Todai.

[Domini Blogimi]

FTN

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Mo, we lived out at the west end of OC in the tracts they built in the early 1960's. Basically Valley View and Chapman. Went to Pacifica High. Used to skateboard on the 22 just before it opened for business. No, I'm not that old, I was in elementary school.

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[thorns]

I live in Chino Hills, near the Chino border, and this incident occured approximately 10 minutes from my home. Chino Hills is theoretically upscale, for its size, but as upscale cities go, it's not. Chino is not the most upscale city for its size, but parts of it are as nice as Chino Hills, and the bad parts too have counterparts in Chino Hills. Now, property value nonwithstanding, the affluence of a community does not make this crime any less horrendous. For all the would-be, desktop pc, white supremacists, it is ironic that you support the actions of the deputy, who is African-American. I know that a fictional television show has painted Chino in a bad light, but it is not any worse than Chino Hills in any regard, actually it might be safer since Chino PD did not do the firing, a Chino Hills sheriff did. Really, how much better than Chino could Chino Hills be if it can't afford its own police department and it shares a school district with Chino, which means it also receives little funding. Also, for the geographically ignorant, Chino Hills borders Diamond Bar (which also has as many bad parts as it does good parts, and is part of LA County), Pomona (which, despite being named the murder capital of California last year, has a very affluent neighborhood, Phillips Ranch, as well as several gated communities and is also in the "scary" LA County), Corona (which some argue is the meth capital of the world and is in Riverside county) and Anaheim Hills and Brea (which of course are Orange county, and are really no different than Chino but do have superior public school funding). I must also write in regards to the foolish person who called Chino, via Chino Hills, the "Bluest." Anyone who lives in Chino or Chino Hills will tell you that the majority of the population is white, heterosexual and christian, the two gigantic Calvary Chapels within 5 miles of each other, among numerous other Lutheran, orthodox and Mormon churches who all voted "Red," should attest to that. It is a rare occassion that one does not see "W" or "Bush/Cheney" stickers on most cars. Please, do not speak about things you do not know about, unless you mean to demonstrate the potential one person can have in tarnishing the image of an entire group by example. We, in Chino Hills, are used to this police severity. About 3 years ago, a joyriding 17 year-old was shot in the back of the head when it "appeared" that the car he was driving was rolling back towards the squad car, which was on a pretty steep, uphill slope. There are too many other examples to list. It is a sad day when an American soldier is shot in the back, on American soil, on leave from war by an American he was fighting to protect and the population is still questioning whether or not it was justified. I would like to think that ethnicity is not an issue, but reading the prior comments has filled me with doubt and disappointment.

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