Two Thumbs Up

Jesse Walker and I submitted top-10 movies lists to TheCinematheque.com. It's a project wherein members of the peanut gallery give their top 10s, and the whole gets averaged into an overall top-10 list, and it's an instructive example of how the same handful of movies always end up on top of these lists. Although each individual list is pretty idiosyncratic, when you average them together the most frequently repeated entries are still pretty much the same, so you end up with the same Gone With the 8 1/2 Godfathers of Citizen Casablanca's Vertigo list you always get. Walker and Cavanaugh can both take a bow, as neither of our lists contribute to that result. Jesse's list, with annotations explaining America's true landmark underground film, is here. Cavanaugh's list, with longer annotations (sorry, but when I get going about Beyond the Valley of the Dolls ain't nobody gonna stop me), is here. I skipped the requested top-10 directors list because film is a casting director's medium.

Comments

[smacky]

I'm sorry, but The Rules of the Game wasn't very good. Comedy of Manners is typically poo poo.

[ChicagoTom]

Any top 10 list that includes REPO MAN is ok in my book!!

[sage]

Wow. Raising Arizona?

[Jennifer]

Gone With the 8 1/2 Godfathers of Citizen Casablanca's Vertigo

Oh, relief! After that joke I was afraid that Gone with the Wind would appear on one of y'all's fave lists. Glad it wasn't.

[JDM]

Cavanaugh wins.

[sage]

I bet Tim's real favorite is Weekend at Bernie's.

[theCoach]

You forgot "'P' is for Psycho".

[smacky]

Cinematheque.com

That domain rightfully should belong to the Cleveland Cinematheque.

You can see the Cleveland Cinematheque's current schedule at http://www.cia.edu -- click on the little Cinematheque logo at the bottom left of the page (scroll down).

This spam brought to you by smacky.

[Phil]

Word to your mother on Shadow of a Doubt, Jesse. Always been one of my favorite Hitch flicks. Can I just say that, among discussion of Hitch's beautiful starlets, Teresa Wright is nearly always unjustly overlooked?

[Phil]

OK, that's the carrot, now the stick: There is no planet on which The 400 Blows or Strangelove are runners-up.

[Jennifer]

That domain rightfully should belong to the Cleveland Cinematheque. . . . current schedule at http://www.cia.edu.

Good call in complaining there, Smacky, because you know a bunch of self-described libertarians are going to go out of their way to feel sorry for an organization which refers to itself as "CIA." Uh-huh. I feel the sympathy rising within me already. Or is that bile?

[D Anghelone]

Since we're off the beaten path, Repulsion. If you liked Pillow Talk then you'll love this.

[smacky]

Jennifer,

The CIA stands for Cleveland Institute of Art. The Cinematheque really has no affiliation with the Cleveland Institute of Art, except that the CIA houses the Cinematheque in its auditorium. Oh, and the Cinematheque links its page from the institute's domain. 🙂

[Jennifer]

Smacky--

I figured as much, but I still find it hilarious. And a bit surprised, that anything along the lines of CIA or FBI or White House or anything else wasn't immediately snatched up by a porn site in the early days of the Net.

[Pro Libertate]

An Ed Wood film? Is that irony? I can't tell any more. And, as much as I like Repo Man, I'm thinking it won't be playing at classic film festivals in the future.

I'm never one to talk about favorite movies, nor do I see much point in challenging highly subjective best-of lists, but I approach telling you both that you are, well, wrong. Sorry about that.

[Bee]

And here I thought I was the only living American to venerate L'Annee Derniere a Marienbad. And Bunuel. And the lovely Teresa Wright. Shadow of a Doubt was on last night, in fact.

And TROG! AAAAHHHH HAHAHAHAHA

[Bee]

CIA = Culinary Institute of America

[Pro Libertate]

Hey, I noticed that The Third Man is doing really well so far. Good. How can you go wrong with Orson Welles (best entrance in film history), Graham Greene, Joseph Cotten, war-torn Vienna, and zither music?

[spurs]

So only 1-2 films between both your lists made past 1980? Has filmaking gone down so dramatically in your eyes that nothing even close to present day filmns makes your list or are you both old farts?

[Jesse Walker]

Cavanaugh wins.

You'll get no argument from me.

[Peter K.]

I agree with Repo Man, Planet of the Apes, Dawn of the Dead, Road Warrior and Raising Arizona.

I'd toss in The Warriors. "Can you dig it?" And Mel Brooks Blazing Saddles/Young Frankenstein. And Woody Allen's Sleeper which is about a dystopian future.

What about They Live in which Roddy Piper has those special sun glasses and the skeletor aliens use subliminal messages via billboards? I'd recommend most John Carpenter films, from The Thing to Big Trouble in Little China to Escape from New York.

[Pro Libertate]

Peter K., speaking as a guy who wears a Jack Burton tank top when working out, I must support your Big Trouble in Little China nomination. It so rules.

[zoidberg]

So only 1-2 films between both your lists made past 1980? Has filmaking gone down so dramatically in your eyes that nothing even close to present day filmns makes your list or are you both old farts?

Comment by: spurs at November 18, 2005 04:10 PM

Well, when you're only picking 10, it's not surprising that so few wold be from recent years.

I've seen a lot of movies that I have enjoyed quite a bit in the last 10-15 years, but few or none that would make an all time top ten list.

[Crushinator]

Spurs,

Yes, films have gone downhill - they peaked in the 1930's. Now they are making movie versions of bad TV shows. It is now wonder that box office receipts have plummeted in proportion to the artistic merit of the product.

[Lowdog]

Peter K - hell yeah, Carpenter is the shit. So is Kurt Russell. Roddy Piper is also great.

I like Ridley Scott as a director...ok, so just Alien and Blade Runner, but those are 2 fine films.

Actually, there are a lot of good films, but I would submit that filmmaking really hasn't been as good over the last, say, 10 years as it was before.

Then again, I don't go out and see many new movies, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

[Call me snake]

I'm gonna get banned from H&R for saying this, (not the 1st time) but Roger Ebert was dead right about Citizen K.: I've seen it 3-4 times, but with each successive viewing, I still can't quite remember what scene comes next. Plus, that look Welles gives the camera (from over the coffee cup) in the beginning is arrrogant and warm simultaneously.

I won't say anything bad about Walker ever again after his mention of Don Siegel.

Cavanaugh: Refresh my memory: What elements of Braveheart and/or POTC are specifically homophobic? (Other than of course interpreting the de jure position of the Catholic Church as homophobic) I'm also a little pissed that you snubbed John Carpenter.

[mk]

I liked Rules of the Game and Raising Arizona is an important part of any best-of film list.

Also, congratulations to both of you for not including Rashomon. That one is such a cliche.

[zoidberg]

Thrilled to see The Apartment on Jesse's list, one of my all time favorites, movie-wise

[Bee]

Big Trouble in Little China

"What! What will trouble us no more???"

[mk]

Hey a whole bunch of the other people are choosing The Devils of Loudon. All this time I thought I was the only one.

[Number 6]

Raising Arizona and the Road Warior are both great choices. I can't believe no one picked Cool Hand Luke-one of the best libertarian-minded films out there. At the risk of sounding conventional, I'd have to say that Lawrence of Arabia is within my top five.

[agentalbert]

Jesse listed Akira Kurosawa in his top 10 directors list, but didn't put a single Kurosawa movie on his top films OR runner-up list.

[Dylan]

Haven't seen a good deal of these, but I'll take Jesse's list for including The Apartment (Shirley Maclaine was a hottie in 1960), Touch Of Evil ("I don't speak Mexican"), and Chinatown (It'd be on my top ten, not just a runner-up).

[Jesse Walker]

Jesse listed Akira Kurosawa in his top 10 directors list, but didn't put a single Kurosawa movie on his top films OR runner-up list.

Yeah, it's a bit like winning the Irving Thalberg award, isn't it? Ikiru was bubbling under. And -- sorry, MK -- so was Rashomon.

[agentalbert]

I place Ran, Throne of Blood and Yojimbo all superior to Rashomon. The Seven Samurai is overrated.

[Jesse Walker]

I place Ran, Throne of Blood and Yojimbo all superior to Rashomon. The Seven Samurai is overrated.

I think all of those are great movies.

[mk]

Don't get me wrong Rashomon was excellent. It's just that it is one of those films that all film critics put on their list because, you know, they wouldn't be seen as serious film buffs if they didn't.

I scoured the list and so far noone has named The Cranes Are Flying. Therefore, I smugly contend that my film knowledge is superior.

[TheDumbFish]

Cavanaugh: Refresh my memory: What elements of Braveheart and/or POTC are specifically homophobic? (Other than of course interpreting the de jure position of the Catholic Church as homophobic) I'm also a little pissed that you snubbed John Carpenter.

The king's gay son is portrayed as weak, spineless and incompetent. That is probably what Cavanaugh is referring to. Also, the equally gay guy that says "I am skilled in the arts of war and military tactics, sire." is made out to be, I think, a pretty obnoxious character. A few moments later he is defenestrated. I think the scene is primarly supposed to show you how ruthless Long Shanks is, but at the same time your almost glad to see the queer guy get tossed.

I can't believe I actually got to use the word defenestrated. It's one of those words that, as a young boy, while preparing for a vocabulary quiz, wondered why any one who make up such a word.

[NoStar]

I love HEAD.

Thank you Bob Rafelson for the title itself and for the movie.

[Ken Shultz]

Farewell My Concubine is rarely mentioned, but it's one of the best films ever.

[jdog]

Some dude named Chris Wisner says this about 8.5:

A film about the inability to make a film. What more inspiration is there?.

Maybe you should smoke some crystal meth, Chris.

[Warren]

Jesse,
I am totally with you when you talk about the art you like (and how it should be unregulated). But I am totally dismayed when you actually name it. Dude, you have no taste.

My list.
The films of Stanley Kubrick (excluding Eyes Wide Shut)

[jf]

Good to see Billy Wilder represented, although I think Sunset Boulevard is his masterpiece.

Hitchcock's Notorious, my favorite of his films, never seems to make these lists.

The Third Man is the ultimate dirty noir movie, so I'm glad it gets so much love.

And for anyone looking for some modern representation, I'd humbly suggest Requiem for a Dream, although it's one of those that you're gonna love or despise.

[just annother lurker]

Tim:

My respect for you just went up several notches for having the guts to include a Russ Meyer film on your list.

However, your that claim BTVOTD was "Russ Meyer's first and last encounter with a major studio" isn't quite correct. Right after that he did The Seven Minutes, which flopped. The bad experience dealing with 20th Century Fox on this one caused him to swear off any major studio associations for the rest of his career.

Personally, I don't think Dolls was Meyers best work. My own prefs would be from among:

a)Faster Pussycat Kill! Kill! (Tura Satana karate-shops her way through men in a black catsuit.)

b) Supervixens (Can't the story of main character, Clint Ramsey, be viewed as a Sullivan's Travels-esque 'everyman', just trying to live his life despite being put through trial after trial by sexually voracious women?)

or, the underrated
c) Vixen! (Erica Gavin does the Trout Dance. Nuff said.)

Anyway, thanks. I sincerely hope that the recently deceased Meyer has now arrived at a better place, where all the angels have double-D cup sizes.

[JDM]

Bleh, Magnolia appears 3 times on that page.

So bad. Just baffling. Didn't frogs rain from the sky at the end of that movie?

[dead_elvis]

From Tim's:

and an avant-garde score by the versatile, underappreciated Jerry Goldsmith.

I wouldn't consider Jerry Goldsmith to be underappreciated. He's maybe not as famous as John Williams, but that's not the same thing. I think he's well respected.

I was also struck by the soundtrack for Planet of the Apes (I had never seen it until a couple of years ago). They just don't make them like that anymore.

[Ken Shultz]

Seriously, I got really upset walkin' out of the theater after seein' Farewell My Concubine 'cause I knew I'd never get to see it for the first time again.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

So only 1-2 films between both your lists made past 1980? Has filmaking gone down so dramatically in your eyes that nothing even close to present day filmns makes your list or are you both old farts?

Or neither? My list doesn't include anything from 1938 to 1960, a period that includes six out of the AFI top 10 and three out of the Cinematheque top 10. Jesse has no silent movies and neither do I-and I really like silent movies. In fact, starting my list at 1937 means I miss the first 1/3 of the history of motion pictures. Those are the kind of compromises you make when you can only pick 10 and you want to make it an interesting list.

I'm gonna get banned from H&R for saying this, (not the 1st time)

Yeah, so why are you still here when you're not welcome?

However, your that claim BTVOTD was "Russ Meyer's first and last encounter with a major studio" isn't quite correct. Right after that he did The Seven Minutes, which flopped.

I thought about this, and that's why I said "a major studio and a big budget." The Seven Minutes was the second of Meyer's three-picture deal with Fox, but it wasn't conceived or budgeted as a major release and was more or less orphaned after the studio saw what he'd come up with in BTVOTD. I think it's fair to say BTVOTD was the only time Meyer had full studio power at his disposal. Whether it's the best, well, I won't argue that anything on my list is the best, or that the whole list wouldn't be different a week from now. In a lot of ways I prefer Beneath the Valley of the Ultra-Vixens just for descriptions the old man gives of everybody in his narration: "Junkyard Sal, an amazon, sucking dry the marrow of the laboring classes... Lola Langusta, hotter than a Mexican's lunch..." Ebert should have gone into screenwriting full time.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

How can you go wrong with Orson Welles (best entrance in film history), Graham Greene, Joseph Cotten, war-torn Vienna, and zither music?

You can't. It broke my heart to have to submit a Joseph Cotten-less list, and especially to make the Sophie's Choice between Sweet Charlotte and Baby Jane. In Soylent Green as in life, Joseph Cotten was too soon gone!

[Amanda Hugginkiss]

Well, we've already had discussions this week about the Harry Potter books and Arrested Development, King of the Hill, and The Simpsons, so why not throw film into the mix...

The king's gay son is portrayed as weak, spineless and incompetent. That is probably what Cavanaugh is referring to.

Except apparently he was that in real life too. This was a dude who was deposed on his wife's orders and executed with a red-hot poker up the bunghole. (Enter Hakluyt to tell me how wrong I am and what an ignorant jackass I am and how I need to read all of the right books, which are available in any college library).

John Carpenter's The Thing: Scariest... movie... ever.

The Fog is great too.

[Pro Libertate]

Tim, as penance, you must recite the Cuckoo Clock speech four times, while riding in a ferris wheel.

It was weird seeing Cotten in such a small role in Soylent Green. Kind of like watching Agnes Moorehead in Bewitched. In one of the better alternative universes, Welles never fell and neither did the other Mercury Theater folks. In fact, I'm going to go watch Alternative Universe Welles' Heart of Darkness (1955), starring Cotten as the narrator, Welles as Kurtz, and John Houseman as some angry guy.

[Ken Shultz]

John Carpenter's The Thing

Amen to that!

[Smart Torontonian]

The original a Star is Born and Angels with Dirty Faces? Hurrah!

[Kurt]

Also, congratulations to both of you for not including Rashomon. That one is such a cliche.

That's not the way I remember it.