"I Was a Teenage Prostitute. And It Was Kind of Great."

So explains Lisa Carver, author of Drugs Are Nice: A Post Punk Memoir, in this engaging Nerve.com essay.

Earlier this week I interviewed another literary former sex worker, Tracy Quan.

Comments

[Shem]

Interesting article. The life sounds a lot like drug dealing, actually...

[jf]

Hmm. I've nothing against prostitution, but the current trend of women trying to justify themselves in their "memoirs" is pathetic. There's a reason "whore" is still a dirty word, and the attempts the elevate the status of prostitutes just doesn't work for me.

At least this woman, in the excerpt, came across much more honestly than Quan did in your interview.

[Phil]

There's a reason "whore" is still a dirty word

Sure, but not because of any moral failing on the part of prostitutes. It's because there are men in the world who, for whatever reason, want to buy sex upfront instead of farting around about it, hate themselves for it, and consequently blame the women.

[erik]

[i]Sure, but not because of any moral failing on the part of prostitutes. It's because there are men in the world who, for whatever reason, want to buy sex upfront instead of farting around about it, hate themselves for it, and consequently blame the women.[/i]

And the women who are jealous/threatened by these transactions because they prefer to have the sex financed on an installment plan rather than bought in single servings.

[jf]

Phil:

Forgive me if I'm making a huge leap here, but do you think that the men who frequent prostitutes would be reduced to rape? If not, would you agree that prostitutes create the market? In other words, how would these poor men cope if not for prostitutes?

[chthus]

jf,

I'm guessing that if there were no prostitutes the demand for them would drive the price up until there were prostitutes. Now if only there were no ice cream men and candy manufacturers, then all of our kids would be skinny.

[Akira MacKenzie]

And the women who are jealous/threatened by these transactions because they prefer to have the sex financed on an installment plan rather than bought in single servings.

Don't forget, with a prostitute, once the deal is done. It done. With marriage, the woman will wait until you've got a house, a nice fat pension, stocks, bonds, etc and even pop out a kid or two. Then she'll divorce him, the state will give her most of what the poor schmuck owns plus alimony and child support.

Thanks to our culture's sexual phobias and religious nonsense, we've got things ass backwards: Marriage should be illegal. Not prostitution.

[chthus]

Akira,

Are you saying that marriage is sometimes used as an elaborate legalized con, and that this fact devalues the institution? But, I thought that would only happen when gays got to do it?

Next up: gay prostitution. Do two wrongs make a right? Or even a market for that matter.

[CayugaCthuga]

Wow, this thread's really bringing out the latent misogyny, innit?

[Akira MacKenzie]

But, I thought that would only happen when gays got to do it?

I myself sometimes wonder why any self-respecting homosexual would subject themself to the same self-inflicted stupidity that is marriage. Then again, fair is only fair and they should have the right. I suppose they're just going to have to learn the hard way.

[dhex]

"There's a reason "whore" is still a dirty word, and the attempts the elevate the status of prostitutes just doesn't work for me."

that and 2 dollars will get you a ride on the bus.

[Akira MacKenzie]

Wow, this thread's really bringing out the latent misogyny, innit?

Women have nothing to do with it, just a hypocritical culture that demands we lock up our normal sexual desires, and channel them into a sham institution.

[Akira MacKenzie]

There's a reason "whore" is still a dirty word

Yeah, and it has to do with organized religions irrationally turning consensual sex acts into a sin. Not because the act of selling sexual favors in inherently "evil."

Allow me to rephrase my previous statement: It's religion that should be illegal. Not prostitution.

[IceT-sweetC-whazzitB]

Check my beats!
My beats so ill they on life support!

Oh, so sorry. Wrong thread.

[thoreau]

Akira-

As far as marriage goes, don't knock it until you've tried it.

[thoreau]

Let me rephrase that:

If you aren't interested in marriage, so be it. But don't presume that marriage is universally awful. Some of us are quite happy, thank you very much.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Don't forget, with a prostitute, once the deal is done. It done. With marriage, the woman will wait until you've got a house, a nice fat pension, stocks, bonds, etc and even pop out a kid or two.

i.e., You don't pay a whore for sex. You pay her to go away afterward.

[dhex]

yeah, seriously. if you're stupid, and afraid of being hurt, and choose poorly, or get thrown some bumps or some other shit happens, you might get facefucked by ye olden matrimonialisms.

but seriously akira, you can't play at being the cynical virgin in his parents' basement forever. well, you can, but you don't want to.

[NoStar]

Being that as much as I like sex, I like my money even more and therefore have never contracted with a prostitute for sexual services.

I once made the statment that I had never paid for sex. I was rightfully informed that "while it may be that you have never purchased it with money, believe me, you've paid for it. Ain't nothing fer free!"

[chthus]

CayugaCthuga,

Latent misogyny or latent any emotion is only for those that aren't in touch with theirs. I wear my misogyny on my sleeve and it's about the size of a friendship bracelet. My girlfriend's a hell of a lot more misogynistic than I am, but her gender makes it more acceptable, and cute. If you don't like it when people talk about things that make you uncomfortable and stir up feelings you didn't know you had, just come out and say it. You'll be doing yourself a world of good.

[Ken Shultz]

I've always thought of prostitution as temporary slavery. Both Carver and Quan said they wanted to be prostiutes, and, yeah, that blows big holes in the slavery theory. I still wonder, though, for every prostitute who's happy to be one, how many aren't?

...and, no, I don't think it's the same as people who clean toilets for a living. Sure, most janitors would probably rather do something else. But few go into "environmental services" to support an expensive addiction. No one beats them in the regular course of business. And although there's somewhat of a stigma attached to the work, if you move on to some other profession, people probably won't hold your past against you.

I've always reluctantly supported the idea of legalized prostitution out of a general revulsion for state interference in a person's freedom. ...but, to me, it's the suggestion that by legalizing the practice, we might squeeze some of the coercion out of the business and, indeed, help keep children out of the business that makes legalization appealing.

[mediageek]

On another note, does anyone else have what could be described as a Pavlovian reaction any time they see that Kerry Howley posts an entry.

"Ooooh, a post from Howley, it's probably hot!"

[mobile]

I concur with mediageek.

"Ooooh. A Howley Post! Self-medicating Burmese hookers, here I come!"

Drool.

[Ken Shultz]

My understanding is that even in a community property state, your spouse can't take what you owned before you were married. ...as far as child support is concerned, I don't feel sorry for anyone who has to support his own children.

So what's left, alimony? I'd understand if alimony was a new concept, introduced after you were married. ...but it isn't. I'm not so sure women shouldn't be compensated for the options they forego--sometimes permanently--when they get married. And prenuptial agreements are available if you want one.

So at any rate, if, like Cavanaugh said, prostitution is like paying a woman to go away afterward, then marriage isn't like prostitution. Prostitution is like divorce.

[fyodor]

I really don't care if prostitution is more like marriage or divorce or whatever. You could find similarities between almost any two things if you wanted to. And you can always find differences between any two things that can be identified as two separate things, by definition. But if people were to look at prostitution realisticly rather than through the prism of their psycho-sexual insecurities, that would be a good thing.

[fyodor]

I really don't care if prostitution is more like marriage or divorce or whatever. You could find similarities between almost any two things if you wanted to. And you can always find differences between any two things that can be identified as two separate things, by definition. But if people were to look at prostitution realisticly rather than through the prism of their psycho-sexual insecurities, that would be a good thing.

[joshua corning]

yeah that article was upsetting to me...

partially becouse I am jelouse that i can't get paid to have sex with multitudes of strange women...and partially becouse the writter doesn't want to have sex with me exclusivly for free.

arn't the mind fuck of evolved brain chemicals fun? 🙂

anyway for all the calls to end religion or its sociaties fault or that it is becouse of sexual represion or what the fuck ever need to pull thier heads out of thier collective asses and realise that we are biological beings and that there is no perfect natural state. Our phsyo/sexual engeneering is ment to be conflicted...it was designed to propegate the species not make us happy.

[fyodor]

Our phsyo/sexual ... was designed to propegate the species not make us happy.

True enough. But that doesn't mean we can't at least try to use our reason to overcome our natural irrationalities and perhaps even increase our happiness. Or at least our wisdom.

[Mark B.]

As a resident of Nevada, I've seen legalized prostitution in action now for many years, and I just don't understand why it's so reviled, stigmatized and driven underground everywhere else in the US. There's an obvious demand for the service, the health risks can be minimized with basic preventative medicine and technologies, and the women providing the service entered the business voluntarily, at least in this state.

In Nevada, the brothels are licensed, tax-paying businesses that are required to conduct regular medical inspections of their employees. Every brothel demands that customers use condoms before providing the service, and violent or otherwise "weird" customers are promptly ejected. For the most part, the brothels have been an accepted part of their communities for many years.

For those who feel basic biological urges but have no interest in long-term emotional committments, the brothel supplies an important service on a "strictly business" basis. It may always carry a risque air, but criminalizing the business serves no purpose other than to marginalize and endanger the service providers.

[joshua corning]

"As a resident of Nevada, I've seen legalized prostitution in action now for many years, and I just don't understand why it's so reviled, stigmatized and driven underground everywhere else in the US."

For the exact same reason that you do not find it reviling.

diveristy of sexual stratagies

[kwais]

Mark B, where in Nevada are you from?

I would like to add to your post, that you are a prostitute in Nevada is 10 times less likely to have an STD than a college student anywhere in the US.

I got that random statistic from a college class, and I was actually surprised that it is only 10 times less. I would have expected it more like 50 times less.

[fyodor]

For the exact same reason that you do not find it reviling. diveristy of sexual stratagies

If you expect that to be self-evidently understood, I believe you've failed, at least for me. But I'm gonna take a stab at it and guess that you're saying that it's because of the desirability, at least for some of the people some of the time, of taboo?

To that I would respond that making something illegal is not necessary for making it (or keeping it) taboo. But then, perhaps you already know that.

[Joshua Corning]

If you expect that to be self-evidently understood, I believe you've failed, at least for me. But I'm gonna take a stab at it and guess that you're saying that it's because of the desirability, at least for some of the people some of the time, of taboo?

No i am saying that some people actually do find it repulsive. And the reason you do not find it so is just as irrational as the reason some people do.

Of course i wrote that 5 years ago so i may be reading what i wrote wrong.

[fyodor]

Excuse me, I see now that joshua corning was focusing on the "reviled" part of Mark B's comment, as opposed to why it's made illegal and such. I'm guessing that was mostly a figure of speech on Mark B's part cause it's hardly hard to understand why some people would have a personal aversion to prostitution, thoroughly aside from whether they should. But it's that same old thing that's been discussed elsewhere on H&R: I don't like something, therefore I shall make it illegal for others. I hasten to point out that that's not all there is to people's conscious thought process on the matter, they always have some way to justify imposing their personal preference on others, and gun-control is an area where it's especially easy to do that, thus joe has some validity to his claim that we're being disengenuous to attribute gun control adovcacy entirely to such motives. But at the same time, it's just always easier to come up with those justifications for why some behavior or preference is a society-wide problem when we're not interested or involved in the activity in question ourselves.

[js]

It's probably reviled in part because people don't see it as being particularly good for the women involved (the prostitues). This says little about legalization as it could be argued either way and the women do make the choice to be prostitutes (however I suspect their preexisting choices are limited in significant ways beforehand). It just says a lot about why prostitution may not be viewed favorably. And what's wrong with that? Everyone has their own conceptions of what serves human nature best (although frankly woman nature is what I'm concerned with here as I think prostitution serves as a useful and perhaps socially desirable outlet for some men, but tends to be less beneficial for the women involved).

[kwais]

BTW that is a cool story.

[Joe Baby]

NoStar has a point. But the other thing men miss when buying poon is the sublime beauty of gaining sex thru cheezy conversation and puffery.

[Zeuswood]

"Are you saying that marriage is sometimes used as an elaborate legalized con..."

I have certainly seen it used that way, and even had it be clear that was the plan from before the marriage happened... to everyone but the victim.

[fyodor]

It's probably reviled in part because people don't see it as being particularly good for the women involved (the prostitues). This says little about legalization as it could be argued either way and the women do make the choice to be prostitutes (however I suspect their preexisting choices are limited in significant ways beforehand). It just says a lot about why prostitution may not be viewed favorably. And what's wrong with that?

What's wrong with that is it's STUPID, that's what's wrong with that!! You don't work a job because it's good for you! Plenty of jobs, nay, MOST jobs (worldwide) are not good for you!! And prostitution goes on despite being illegal, only in much more dangerous and difficult and NOT GOOD FOR YOU circumstanes, so it's especially STUPID to make prostitution illegal to protect women! OF COURSE their "pre-existing choices are limited"; if they had something better to do, they'd do it! DUH! You can say that about ANY job! Hell, ban toilet cleaning cause toilet cleaners only do it cause their pre-existing choices are limited! (Note: none of this is to belittle the fact that some people, maybe even most people, face more difficult and limited life choices than do I. It's only to say that...well, what I said.)

Anyway, aside from how stupid it would be to make prostitution illegal to protect women, I tend to doubt it's accurate either. Maybe it's a conveniennt justification, but I doubt it's the genuine reason. I suspect it's more out of aversion to the practice. It's icky and sinful because sex is supposed to be vaulted and only for married couples and maybe even only to produce children. I don't know if I can prove that to someone who disagrees other than to point out the obvious fact that, as I already stated, LOTS of jobs are not good for you, whereas sexuality is a hotbed of neurosis and taboo creation.

[darkheart]

...and, no, I don't think it's the same as people who clean toilets for a living. Sure, most janitors would probably rather do something else. But few go into "environmental services" to support an expensive addiction. No one beats them in the regular course of business.

That's because you can't go into "environmental services" to support an expensive addiction - not if you're consuming enough to remain in an altered state on a pretty steady basis.

Janitorial work does pay pretty well for the skill involved (one of the reasons why so many immigrants do it), but it pays nothing compared to prostitution.

If cleaning toilets for a living paid as well as prostitution and was as fitting to a drug addict's life (not showing up some days, day mostly spent hanging out, can be performed while on drugs), I think you'd see more addicts going to it.

In fact, one possible argument against legalizing prostitution (though I believe it to be a canard) is that if prostitution were legalized there would be less profit. If there was less profit then those who go into it out of a need for quick quantities of cash would have to turn to something else - maybe something worse.

The big question is: if the price of drugs was much, much lower how many prostitutes would we see?

[fyodor]

BTW, this notion that you pay a prostitute to go away afterwards is a clever formulation, but that doesn't make it true or accurate. Or I should say, there are certainly johns who could easily score a gal but prefer a prostitute to avoid entanglement, but there are certainly also johns who do it for other reasons. Some of you may think it's impossible for any guy who can get himself out of bed in the morning to not be able to score at will, but here's some news for you, there ARE guys like that. And then there's the gray area. Some johns may be able to score if they work at it hard enough but simply don't want to work that hard. Or maybe they don't have the time, like truckers on the road. Some may also have plenty of noncommercial sex but want more and commercial sex is a good, convenient way to supplement it. And on top of all that, consider that casual sex is in no short supply. It doesn't take much more cleverness beyond what it takes to score to make sure you only score with gals who will go away afterward FOR FREE. And maybe it takes LESS cleverness, ie, be a lunkhead and the gals will gladly flee.

So anyway, like many clever formulations, saying you pay a prostitute to go away afterwards kinda sounds nifty, but it doesn't necessarily tell us a whit about what's really going on.

[fyodor]

In fact, one possible argument against legalizing prostitution (though I believe it to be a canard) is that if prostitution were legalized there would be less profit.

Thoreau very much likes to make the point that black markets are maintained largely due to the lobbying of those who benefit from a good's or service's continued illegality. In fact, when I pointed out that that sex worker author and supposed advocate previously interviewd by Kerry Howley seemed to want prostitution to stay illegal but just not prosecuted, thoreau was quick to point out that that was to protect working gals' level of pay. (Although maybe it's more to keep books on sex work interesting.) Exactly who would benefit and who would lose were prostitution legalized is an open question. Perhaps current prostitutes would lose because they may not necessarily be the most desired hires were it to become a legit business, just as current drug dealers would not likely be hired by Marlboro if giant corporations could sell pot. Anyway, I don't think most people who really want prostitution to be illegal think of themselves as protecting current working women's paychecks (any more than they're doing it to keep women out of such a not good for you career). Like most prohibitions, it's primarily fear of change (at this point, anyway).

[Ken Shultz]

I suspect the reason prostitution is looked down upon has something to do with sexual mores and something to do with the implication of coercion. ...Sexual mores, even among evangelicals, aren't what they used to be. Moving in with a boyfriend, for instance, doesn't even blow the minds of religious people these days.

Both of these women, as I recall, said they first realized they wanted to become prostitutes in childhood. I suspect that's unusual. Maybe I'm wrong and there were girls in my high school who would have wanted to become legitimate prostitutes if only they'd had the chance.

I understand they've cleaned up Sunset, but when I used to drive through Hollywood on a Saturday night, way back when, the runaways workin' the street looked like victims of coercion to me. Maybe I was wrong.

Regardless, there's nothing wrong or un-libertarian about supporting legalization with the hope that it will squeeze some of the coercion out of the industry. ...and that it may help protect the rights of prostitutes. ...which are currently protected by pimps or the goodwill of Johns or organized crime.

I think arguing for protecting children and the coerced is more likely to resonate with the general public than the insistence that the general public change their minds about religion and stop looking down on sex workers. ...but maybe I'm just crazy.

[Ken Shultz]

Darkheart,

Being forced to take a job as a janitor isn't like being forced to take a job as a prostitute. ...specifically, for those who were forced into prostitution as a function of outright coercion. ...as in forcing women to work for you under the threat of violence. That doesn't happen, generally speaking, in the world of environmental services.

[Ken Shultz]

So anyway, like many clever formulations, saying you pay a prostitute to go away afterwards kinda sounds nifty, but it doesn't necessarily tell us a whit about what's really going on.

What I said about marriage not being like prostitution was in response to what was said about marriage being like prostitution. It wasn't about whether prostitution should be legal per se.

...but thanks for the nifty compliment. ; )

[Ken Shultz]

...actually, that was my elaboration on Tim's nifty comment.

[Wintermute]

What you have here are two different contracts: long-term and short-term.

The long form is an "until death or divorce do us part" breeding license, child rearing, and social security contract, which benefits both male and female, although benefits can become uneven.

The short form is the whore-john contract where the female foregoes her benefits under the long form but receives immediate cash and promises not to make the male responsible for any offspring from the union.

Prostitution's illegality stems from women who hold out for and (in theory) abide by the long-term contract and use their power over their men and their recent suffrage rights at election time to restrict the availability of sex under the short-term contract, which they perceive as a threat.

I remember reading somewhere sometime ago that the French make prostitution legal but pimping illegal. I do not know if that is or was so; but such an approach, at least of regulating pimping to establishments like Nevada's or Amsterdam's, would go a long way to reducing negative experiences inside prostitution.

[fyodor]

I suspect the reason prostitution is looked down upon has something to do with sexual mores and something to do with the implication of coercion.

The latter part sounds like a rationalization to me. That prostitutes are often coerced should make them more objects of pity or sympathy than scorn.

That said, we may be straying from any cogent point here. Obviously being that prositution is illegal and that in today's world most women would find it abhorent work, it likely attracts the most unfortunate and pathetic members of society. I don't doubt that for some that's reason enough to look down at them. But so what? We were previously talking about why people revile the whole phenomenon so much that they want it to be illegal. Since its illegality causes the coercion in the first place, I don't think it can be said that "the implications of coercion" caused prostitution to be made illegal originally. That would be reversing the cause and effect. So again, I think it comes down to the psycho-sexual neurosis thing combined with fear of other people's preferences.

[Ruthless]

In H&R, The Next Generation, we will be able to calmly discuss the nitty-gritty of everyday life after all vice has been legalized.
As a preview of coming attractions, study Bonobo chimpanzees, and crank it up an evolutionary notch.

[Ken Shultz]

The latter part sounds like a rationalization to me. That prostitutes are often coerced should make them more objects of pity or sympathy than scorn.

One of the reasons people don't like prostitution is because they think that women are being forced to work in the industry. Where's the rationalization?

[joshua corning]

"What's wrong with that is it's STUPID, that's what's wrong with that!! You don't work a job because it's good for you! Plenty of jobs, nay, MOST jobs (worldwide) are not good for you!! And prostitution goes on despite being illegal, only in much more dangerous and difficult and NOT GOOD FOR YOU circumstanes, so it's especially STUPID to make prostitution illegal to protect women! OF COURSE their "pre-existing choices are limited"; if they had something better to do, they'd do it! DUH! You can say that about ANY job!"

i would go as far as saying that i revile prostitution and that i think that it is bad for women and that many women are both forced and/or pressured into it...that said i still think it should be legal. anyway amen to fyodor.

[Ken Shultz]

I had to look up Bonobo chimpanzee Ruthless. ...I recognized it as pygmy chimpanzee, which is apparently a misnomer. Pygmy chimpanzees always stuck out for me, 'cause I saw 'em at the Wild Animal Park in San Diego, and somebody once told me they were among the few species--dolphins being another--that have sex for fun. ...So when I looked it up, I found this:

One special feature observed in bonobo society is the low level of aggression between individual bonobos. Bonobos are less apt to engage in physical conflicts and confrontations with other groups of bonobos. Their generally peaceful society is attributed to the evolution of a highly complex social system.

Bonobos have developed a set of ritualized socio-sexual behaviors that are specific to their species. Sexual behaviors, displayed by individuals of all ages, have evolved to strengthen group cohesion. For example, mating is common between male and female adults even when the female is not fertile. There is also a higher frequency of homosexual behavior among bonobos of all ages (especially among adult females), and genital contact functions as social appeasement during times of group tension.

I'll bet there isn't anything like prostitution in that society.

[Ken Shultz]

...oops, forgot the link.

http://www.zoosociety.org/Conservation/Bonobo/WhatIs.php

[Ken Shultz]

...but they're essentially in an anarchist society, aren't they?

[mediageek]

I've heard it said that Bonobos will settle a lot of conflicts through the use of sex, whereas Chimpanzees resort to violence.

Evidently, Humans fall somewhere in between.

Re: Prostitution, it should be legal. If someone feels that the women who work as prostitutes are being exploited and/or forced into it, I don't see anyone stopping them from going out and rescuing hookers from themselves.

Seems to me that just making it flat-out illegal is a lazy and spiteful way to try to "help" these women.

[js]

Well strawman. I never said anything about the legality issue. In fact I specified that legality could be argued either way from the position that prostitution is bad for the women involved. I mean it's quite possible that illegality makes it more explotive. I doubt legality will make it entirely unexplotive though but that doesn't mean it won't offer any improvement. But go ahead keep believing that prostitution is great for women if you like. You seem to need to.

[craptastic]

"But go ahead keep believing that prostitution is great for women if you like. You seem to need to."

Ah, I love these implications of psychological disturbance in people who disagree with you. Go ahead and think that statements like this make you anything other than a self-important prick, js. You seem to need to.

[Stevo Darkly]

I'm just skimming and not really paying attention ...

Women have nothing to do with it, just a hypocritical culture that demands we lock up our normal sexual desires, and channel them into a sham institution.

Now, don't be calling the Internet a sham institution!

By the way, I don't know about bonobos, but there was that famous study where capuchin monkeys were rewarded with raisins to use as "money," and a market in prostitution arose, with female capuchins bartering sex for raisins.

justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/06/more_freakonomi.html

[Ken Shultz]

Gee Stevo. So I guess it really is the oldest profession. ...by a long shot!

[CapuchiBabe]

Yeee! Heeee! Heeeee! Hyeeeee! Hyeeeeek! Hyeee! Heeee! *

(Translation: "Hey, baby, want to have a little party?")

[fyodor]

But go ahead keep believing that prostitution is great for women if you like. You seem to need to.

Talk about strawman!! I sure as hell never said prostitution is great for women!! I'll halfway back off part of what I said cause it's true that you acknowledged the argument for legalization could go both ways (so you're only half wrong, ha-ha!). And it's true that disaproving of prostitution (as in thinking it's not a good thing per se) because it's bad for women could make a degree of sense (though under a legal system I don't see why it would be much if any worse for the women involved than the men; still sounds like misplace chivalry put that way). It's this reviling (and that is a good way to put it) that's much better explained by sexual neurosis and fear of others' habits than by genuine concern for the parties. Plus, back to the legal question, I think the reviling is the main reason it's illegal, and that's why defending the reviling gives the impression that you're defending the illegal status. As for bringing exploitation down to zero, I never suggested any such thing and for damn good reason. I don't believe ANY public policy can bring grief and discord down to zero. Remember: utopia is not an option!

[fyodor]

joshua corning,

Thanks for the amen. Just to be clear, though, and this should be addressed to everyone, I too revile the coercion involved in the prostitution black market. It's pretty fuckin' sick to take advantage of young girls and to use violence to essentially force them to accept being raped. But let's also recall that the word "revile" was introduced to this thread by Mark B, who used it in the context of how much better prostitution operated when it's legal than when it's illegal. I believe he was implying, and I think he's right, that prostitution is illegal in most places because of the revulsion many people feel towards the whole idea, even if it's legal. And that's why I take umbrage at justifying the revulsion to prostitution on the grounds that it's bad for women. Now to be fair, I suppose you (and others on this thread) are talking about prostitution in its current illegal status when you say you revile it. But that just twists the original reason for bringing revulsion into the discussion in the first place.

I should also say, that while Lisa Carver's experiences are probably not typical per se, I'm also skeptical that most prostitutes in the US are essentially slaves. That they face limited life-choices compared to doctors and lawyers, well yeah, duh. And maybe in some parts of the world, like Thailand, forced prostitution may be the most prevalent form of it. But I really doubt it's the most prevalent form in these parts. People here are throwing that out like it's a given, and then use that given to justify all their revulsion, but I'm skeptical. Anyway please note: when that does happen, I too REVILE the practice.

[The Wine Commonsewer]

Read it a couple of days ago. Interesting stuff. I used to know people that lived like that. You can have my share.

[Buy Kamagra Oral Jelly]

just a hypocritical culture that demands we lock up our normal sexual desires, and channel them into a sham institution.