"Feminism Isn't a Fucking Dating Service"

Or so claims one very pissed Feminister at Feministing in response to this excerpt from the excruciatingly unnecessary Are Men Necessary?, a long Maureen-Dowd-powered discussion of why intelligent women will end up childless and alone. It's hard to hate Dowd properly when she simultaneously invites disapproval from feminists who cite "patriarchal norms" and the feminism-killed-motherhood crowd at the Independent Women's Forum, but let's try:

A few years ago at a White House correspondents' dinner, I met a very beautiful and successful actress. Within minutes, she blurted out: "I can't believe I'm 46 and not married. Men only want to marry their personal assistants or P.R. women."

I'd been noticing a trend along these lines, as famous and powerful men took up with young women whose job it was was to care for them and nurture them in some way: their secretaries, assistants, nannies, caterers, flight attendants, researchers and fact-checkers.

From this anecdote and a conversation Dowd has at the gym, we are to conclude that powerful men will always seek women less successful than they are. Taking this seriously for a very misguided moment, every man who married "down" (as she puts it) apparently found a woman looking to marry "up." In Dowd-world, the dating market is completely determined by men. But unless life really is just an extended episode of Joe Millionaire, it's probably safe to assume the women in question had some say in their choice of spouse, and with that choice they chose to marry someone "famous and powerful." The "beautiful and successful actress" wasn't going to marry her personal assistant; women always marry "up." Which seems, in the end, at least as "superficial" as marrying a Jessica Simpson clone to feel better about yourself.

What we're supposed to glean from 10 pages of Dowd's educated, successful friends commenting on how little action they're getting is: Men are too intimidated to have them. But if there is any truth at all in Dowd's claims that "Women moving up still strive to marry up" and "Men moving up still tend to marry down," it's hard to see how men are more to blame than women for a state of affairs that (supposedly) locks out both successful women and unsuccessful men.

Comments

[metalgrid]

I don't get why these successful women don't just get themselves a trophy husband or cabana boy.

[smacky]

True dat. If you're going to insist on being a gold digger, at some point the odds are going to be against you. Especially if you aren't someone's hot, young personal assistant. Dating someone who isn't financially super-successful doesn't neccessarily equate to lowering your standards. There are probably tons of great, available non-traditionally "successful" guys, just as there are tons of successful, rich, powerful and/or well-to-do guys who are completely shallow, self-centered assholes. Suit yourself.

I think the lonely, overly-demanding, too-high-of-expectations, gender-generalizing feminist/females and the lonely, porn-obsessed, creepy, gender-generalizing men deserve each other.

[Number 6]

Men control the dating world, eh? Could have fooled my single self.

[dave_b]

As one who spends a lot of time at nomarriage.com and dontmarry.com, I'd have to say that maybe it's because most modern men are aware of the financial slavery that is marriage, not to mention the thought of losing everything you own in divorce court. Why put up with the constant demands and wants of high-maintenance women who always have something to prove when you can get practically unlimited trim from someone of lesser stature for a few nights out on the town?

[Bob]

Wow that's some preposterous, farcical stuff. I guess some people still get up to transgressing those thought-boundaries and making fools of themselves. "She's been noticing," huh?

I'VE NOTICED IT'S BEEN LIKE THAT IN EVERY CULTURE ON EVERY CONTINENT ALL THROUGHOUT HUMAN HISTORY.

Shut up.

Academic communities like this everyone knows are wrong are outnumbered by anime fetishist communities and scientologists so I guess the question is why anyone at all cares anymore about anything they say. {Not feminists, mind you, but academic "blank slate" loons.)

[alkali]

I'm not saying MoDo's a gold digger, but one cannot help but observe that she isn't messing with any broke individuals.

[JustinSane]

I'm looking forward to seeing Dowd's review of "The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists" by former NYTimesie, Neil Strauss.

[duncan]

I'm not saying MoDo's a gold digger, but one cannot help but observe that she isn't messing with any broke individuals.

Heh.

[Jennifer]

Meanwhile, I just noticed that men seem to think the average 26-year-old woman is hotter than the average 80-year-old woman. What the hell is up with that?

[felch]

haha, you're really "sticking it" to them! and they're all like, "may i have another?" i bet they all like it anal 😛

[fyodor]

Lol, Jennifer!

I think "feminists" of MoDo's ilk are just playing the age-old game of the War Between the Sexes but trying their damnedest to give it an intellectual/modern spin. Might as well be the Donna Reed Show.

[Sandy]

I have to say, since I seem to be one of the few men who seem to prefer an equally successful woman (success not necessarily determined financially), I suspect there's a two-way street at work. I know lots of mid-30s career women still looking to find the rich 40-something to set them up in an even ritzier style than they are now.

I do OK, but I don't have the DuPont Circle townhouse, and I'm not gonna any time soon. (Hint to the ladies: lots of those good-looking successful 40-something men with DuPont Circle townhouses are, um, not into you.)

Quite frankly, the younger 20-somethings seem to be more interested than women in my age group and demographic. This is not entirely a problem, but there's a certain maturity level I miss.

But I am just a superficial member of the patriarchy, so what do I know.

[WSDave]

Jen,

"Meanwhile, I just noticed that men seem to think the average 26-year-old woman is hotter than the average 80-year-old woman. What the hell is up with that?"

I'd even go so far as to say that the average 26 year old is hotter than a REALLY HOT 80 year old, but maybe I'm an ageist...

[Eric II]

Has anyone ever thought of setting up a debate between Dowd and Camille Paglia? The entertainment value would be through the roof.

[Frank]

The 20-something's are fun for a few nights, but then they get old really quick. I'm a big fan of women my own age with about equal "success" levels. Playing sugardaddy to 20-somethings gets old about, oh, I don't know, 2 seconds after orgasm.

[E. Steven]

It's hard to hate Dowd properly when..

she poses for the article's photo wearing a tailored jacket, a tight skirt, black-patterned hose and a seriously hot pair of red FM heels.

Tip for guys: Never trust an attractive, successful woman when she tells you how lousy her lovelife is.

[Eric the .5b]

She completely ignores an obvious sample issue - if by "rich and powerful" she means, you know, a minority of all people, then just statistically, the odds are against any rich and powerful person marrying another rich and powerful person. Simple probability says that any random pairing of members of that population is more likely to include a partner outside the minority than have two partners within it.

For instance, if "rich and powerful" means 1% of all people, then a hypothetical Mr. Big has a base 99% chance of marrying Ms. Normal and only 1% chance of marrying Ms. Mover-AndShaker (of the London Mover-AndShakers). These are the same base odds as for Mr. Average. This works out to mean that 0.99 * 0.01 = 0.0099 or 0.99% of all people are "regular" folks married to the "rich and powerful", while only 0.01 * 0.01 = 0.0001 or 0.01% of all people are "rich and powerful" married to "rich and powerful".

(I don't think the random pairing thing is too off in this case. Who are most of the people Mr. Big and Ms. Mover-AndShaker deal with, from day to day? Their underlings and other people who aren't rich-and-powerful.)

Anyone with more time to spend on this is welcome to correct any mistakes in the above.

[NavinK]

Flawed assumption: people AREN'T randomly paired up. Rich/powerful people go to the same parties, same clubs, dinners what-have-yous. In fact, that's the reason these social events exist. Thats why actors marry other actors or people from the 'glamour' world.

[kwais]

The way I see, it and I may be overgeneralizing here, but it is women who are generarlly stuck on the whole "Succesful" thing to determine sexual value.

I, and I think most guys, unlike women, put no sexual value at all in how succesful or rich a woman is. Absolutely none! Zero. I think that bothers some of the more succesful femminists, because they model themselves on succesful male counterparts and then they get upset when their sexual value is still lower that the hot broke secretary who is a hoot to hang out with.

If the succesful woman and the broke secretary are both exactly as fun, and both exactly as hot, they are both exactly equal value, sexually.

[mediageek]

A few years ago at a White House correspondents' dinner, I met a very beautiful and successful actress. Within minutes, she blurted out: "I can't believe I'm 46 and not married.

In my experience, the bulk of people who perform on stage or on screen, regardless of gender, have some very deeply seated personality flaws. I can only imagine that this is intensified with proximity to Hollywood-level fame and fortune.

In Dowd-world, the dating market is completely determined by men.

Ha. Yeah, right. But maybe I have such a hard time finding a date owing to my lack of wealth and power and my overabundance of tongue-tied shyness when talking with women.

So, in the end, Dowd and her ilk probably have zero interest in me, owing to the fact that they themselves would like to marry up.

[Eric the .5b]

And without the math, I could simply have said, "All other things equal, a rich-and-powerful man is more likely to marry a woman who is not rich-and-powerful because most women are not rich-and-powerful."

[Some Femynyst]

Anyone with more time to spend on this is welcome to correct any mistakes in the above.

Well, Eric the half-a-bee,

Since you're open to criticisms of your mistakes, allow me to point out that you're forgetting Rule #1: You are a man, and therefore you are wrong. Please dismiss yourself from the conversation, sew your mouth shut, and sign away fifty-one percent of your property rights to the nearest discontented female to make atonement as stated within the Feminist User's Manual...do not pass go. Do not collect $500.

[mediageek]

Women are allowed to collect $500 when they pass go?

Sheeze. They only let me take $200.

*kicks a pebble across the room*

[Science!]

[Photoshopped match.com testimonial ad with faces of Dowd and Charles Darwin pasted over stock minority yuppie couple]

[Mad Scientist]

Why would any man with money and power put up with the Maureen Dowds of the world when he could have a hot 20-something who will actually shutup once in a while?

[mystique]

you're all just a bunch of libertarian geeks who have to pay for sex because you exude the charm of a vacuum cleaner.

word of advice, skip the sex and get off with the vacuum. you were made for each other.

[mediageek]

Wow. Someone's moody.

[SixSigma]

Mediageek -

You only say that because you don't like strong women. 🙂

[linguist]

Eric,

I liked your fun-with-randomness argument above, until I remembered that...people don't actually marry randomly.

Thank God! I might get one of you guys! (just kiddin)

🙂

[Ron Hardin]

Men are simple creatures. They want to get laid, and they want to be shown that their woman is satisfied with them.

The ``want to get laid,'' that is, male low standards, is to the advantage of the woman, because as pointed out somewhere above, women are not great deals.

The ``want to see their woman is satisfied with them'' is what drives men to take up quests the woman sends them on, and actually enjoy it.

The creation of quests, the testing of the reliability of her man, can, however, transform itself into nonstop bitching - quests without the show of satisfaction.

This, made formal, is feminism. Something is wrong, and men have to change to fix it. It's a quest, but aimed at no particular man, and nothing will satisfy them.

Dowd has her own form of this. No man is good enough for her, in advance.

Men old enough to consider her, know this. There, Maureen, is your problem.

I myself wonder if there is any woman who enjoys jokes without complaining that ``we need something more in our relationship.'' Sure you're funny at the start but give it a couple months and she's bitching. I should do a book on it.

[B.P.]

I married randomly. I hope I didn't screw up the data.

[Ricky]

maybe rich successful guys marry women that take care of them at work so they can take care of them at home.

[Cris Judd]

I don't get why these successful women don't just get themselves a trophy husband or cabana boy.

That's what my ex-wife thought.

[Monte Beragon]

Mine too.

[R.Sole]

"Monte Beragon|11.1.05 @ 6:04PM|#
Mine too."

ROFLMAO!

[smacky]

I don't get why these successful women don't just get themselves a trophy husband or cabana boy.

To an extent, I agree with this sentiment. I mean, if I were rich and wealthy, why would I care to be with someone equally rich and wealthy? It would seem inconsequential to me. I mean, how much money does one really care to have? Especially if you don't want children, which are usually a financial drain (or investment, depending on how you look at it). I'm not criticizing people who do want more money (that's their perogative), but personally, I'd start looking to check off something else on my list, like good looks or sense of humor or similar interests, or something else besides more money and more success...

On the contrary, having a cabana boy or trophy husband might not be desirable since, at least in my experience, your typical "hot guy" is a manwhore and not worthy of trust.

[mediageek]

You only say that because you don't like strong women. 🙂

In all honesty, I prefer strong women. I can't freakin' stand a woman who doesn't have beliefs or ideals of her own.

[kwais]

I might get one of you guys!

You get pick of the litter, Linguist.

[ralphus]

Women rarely marry down because very few of them can get past a lack of success in a man.

Men rarely marry up because most of them can't get past lack of looks in a woman.

Lets face it. Most hot chicks are not power brokers. Why do all that work when you can get through life pretty well just by being a hot chick?

Granted there are exceptions - but not many. And most of the supposed exceptions aren't really hot - they're nerdy hot. As in: Maureen Dowd is hot - For a nerdy chick.

This is similar to sports hot. As in: Anika Sorenstrom is hot - for a golfer chick.

[Princess Stephanie]

I can't take a man seriously unless he's rich and successful. That's why I'll only go for a bodyguard, an elephant trainer, or an acrobat.

[dead_elvis]

If the succesful woman and the broke secretary are both exactly as fun, and both exactly as hot, they are both exactly equal value, sexually.

My thoughts as well. You can't underestimate personality, sense of humor, chemistry, etc.

[Cabana boy]

That's what my ex-wife thought.
Mine too.

Those were some good times.

[Xmas]

Man, I haven't read Feministing in years.

I think I stopped reading it after they took up the cause of that woman that drowned her three children during a severe bout of post-partum depression.

As for "Feminism is not a dating service", I have to disagree. All the L.U.G.s I know are feminists. They talk feminist ideals as a form of flirting.

It's sorta like hippies talking about Marxism to get into college girls panties.

[linguist]

Huh. In the news today, Woody Allen explains it all. Dowd should take note:

In a rare interview with Vanity Fair, the film-maker said that his marriage to Soon-Yi Previn, who is 35 years his junior, had a ?paternal feeling to it? but ?works like magic?.

The very inequality of me being older and much more accomplished, much more experienced, takes away any real meaningful conflict,? he told the magazine. ?So when there?s disagreement, it?s never an adversarial thing. I don?t ever feel that I?m a hostile or threatening person.?

Oh, and, EWWWWWWWWW!

[smacky]

Granted there are exceptions - but not many. And most of the supposed exceptions aren't really hot - they're nerdy hot. As in: Maureen Dowd is hot - For a nerdy chick.

I swear, if I hear one more time that I'm "smart-girl hot"....

*frowns*

*kicks a pebble across the room*

[linguist]

You get pick of the litter, Linguist.

Thanks, Kwais!

Women rarely marry down because very few of them can get past a lack of success in a man.

Crap. I come from a long line of women who married down. Guess I'll take the runt!

[JDM]

"From this anecdote and a conversation Dowd has at the gym, we are to conclude that powerful men will always seek women less successful than they are."

On what basis is Maureen Dowd allowed to string together a series of assertions and call it a NYT article? I can't understand her writing (this case is typical) as anything other than affirmations of her readership's prejudices. She doesn't even bother to argue, it's literally just 100% assertion.

[mediageek]

I recently stumbled across an article written by a socio-biologist (if there really is such a thing) that had three or four Ah-HA! type moments in it.

I can't remember if it was linked from here, or from another website. But I should probably go find it as, I think, much of what it said was relevant with regard to the ways that men and women interact.

[kwais]

your typical "hot guy" is a manwhore and not worthy of trust.

I resent that Smacky

[Mr. Snuggles]

Feministing Mission
Young women are rarely given the opportunity to speak on their own behalf on issues that affect their lives and futures. Feministing provides a platform for us to comment, analyze and influence.

Right on. So... can I see some more shirt styles?
Shop Feministing

[smacky]

You're the exception, kwais. Sorry I didn't make that clear...my apologies.

[kwais]

I come from a long line of women who married down

umm, hey Linguist, I am not very succesfull at all. Whatcha doing friday?

[mediageek]

I swear, if I hear one more time that I'm "smart-girl hot"....

Just do like in all the 1980's high school movies, in slow motion take your glasses off and let your hair down.

*Bam*

Instant hot-girl hot.

😉

[Mad Scientist]

I want to be a manwhore. This working every day thing really interferes with my drinking time.

[Xmas]

mediageek

No, not Janey Briggs. She's got glasses. And a ponytail. Ugh, she's got paint on her overalls. What is that?

[mediageek]

Oooh. Busted.

Incidentally, what's a L.U.G.?

[Xmas]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=LUG

[Eric the .5b]

I liked your fun-with-randomness argument above, until I remembered that...people don't actually marry randomly.

You don't have many married friends, then? 😉

[mediageek]

Ah. We called those Lipstick Lesbians.

[Stevo Darkly]

I swear, if I hear one more time that I'm "smart-girl hot"....

My apologies, smacky. I'll never say that again.

Although I swear I've meant it in the sense of specificity, not as a diminutive qualifier.

There's nothing wrong with smart-girl hot.

[Stevo Darkly]

I think the lonely, overly-demanding, too-high-of-expectations, gender-generalizing feminist/females and the lonely, porn-obsessed, creepy, gender-generalizing men deserve each other.

Oh, just an aside, but I personally prefer the more enlightened term "porn-aware.

[SixSigma]

Mediageek -

As do I. I think it's hard to trust anyone who can't voice an opinion from time to time.

[Mo]

So let's see, men aren't acting like golddiggers and only dating for women, but successful women only want to go for successful me. Yet somehow it's the men who are shallow.

Huh?

[Tom Crick]

Hey! Mo's back!

[kwais]

porn-aware

hear, hear!

[Pig Mannix]

I still think the most apt, or at least delightfully mean-spirited, commentary on Maureen Dowd came from Fred Reed.

[Steven Crane]

Ah. We called those Lipstick Lesbians.

Comment by: mediageek at November 1, 2005 06:46 PM

Lipstick lesbians, technically, are the high-femme sort. Like, nearly the entire cast of The L Word.

[Number 6]

Someone needs to start a libertarian dating service. After all, it appears that the only ones who will put up with libertarian types are other libertarian types.
Of course, given the libertarian demographic, some of the guys are going to have to go gay.

[Mo]

"successful me"

Should be "successful men". I am a poor grad student stuck at Notre Dame (I will stop myself before I rant).

Yes Tom, I'm back. Been busy with school and socializing and had some computer problems.

[Shem]

Once again Stevo wins the award for Hit and Run's most creepingly unwholesome poster. Maybe we should call it the Stevo Darkly Award for Excellence in Perversion.

mediageek- It's not exactly the same thing. Lipstick lesbians...have the appearance of the lesbians in porno, to put it bluntly. They're still lesbians regardless, they just don't dress to the stereotypes. This is contrasted with LUGs, who are in their "experimental" stage, and who will get married as soon as graduation removes the external pressures to remain a lesbian.

And how did Mo get out of Gitmo?

[NoStar]

Got GILF?

http://www.bustedtees.com/shirts/gilf

[Tom Crick]

And how did Mo get out of Gitmo?

...With thoreau in my ol' hometown and Mo now in South Bend, I don't know how many regularly commenting reasonoids we have keepin' the faith here in CA anymore. ...We've got Wonelacko, but he doesn't come around much anymore, I don't think he'd like being called a Reasonoid.

Hey Mo, were you perchance at the SC / Notre Dame game? ...Who'd you root for?

[dead_elvis]

Once again Stevo wins the award for Hit and Run's most creepingly unwholesome poster.

I dunno, hard to beat Ruthless in this category 😉

[Petunia Picklehead]

JDM

On what basis is Maureen Dowd allowed to string together a series of assertions and call it a NYT article . . .She doesn't even bother to argue, it's literally just 100% assertion.

Welcome to DowdWorld, where your own media star power makes it true.

MediaGeek
L.U.G. = Lesbian Until Graduation, ie gals who pose as lesbians because someone thinks it's cool.

[Tom Crick]

Once again Stevo wins the award for Hit and Run's most creepingly unwholesome poster.

I posted a comment about people screwing and eating dogs today, about people in Texas humping rather than eating cows, about Texans screwing stuffed deer--and it's Stevo who gets the credit for being the most creepingly unwholesome poster!

...I once posted legal advice for people who wanted to have sex with zombies, but Stevo gets credit for being the most creepingly unwholesome poster!

I will not play Salieri here! ...my comments will survive in cyberspace forever, and my posterity--if I ever decide to have one--will know my genius. ...and, they will know, that the rest of you ignored it even though it was right there in front of you...

; )

[Steven Crane]

linguist has a boyfriend.

All the good Reason-ettes are taken.

[lcat]

Clearly someone needs to point out to poor Maureen and
her female friends that the reason for their unsatisfactory love
lives is their lack of libertarian ideals.

Just some constructive criticism from another happily
paired-off libertarian female.

[Pig Mannix]

All the good Reason-ettes are taken.

Yeah - but what about the bad ones? 😉

[TallDave]

In Dowd-world, the dating market is completely determined by men

Having seen Maureen Dowd, why does this surprise anyone?

[kwais]

BTW, I make no apologies, math is not my forte, But I do appologize for leaving out any prominent libertarian girls on this site. Apparently memory is not my forte either.

Any good, or bad reasonettes that I failed to mention feel free to add your info and stats. Though I am going to guess that the number inequality will not change that much.

[TallDave]

kwais,

Haven't you read Kurzweil? We don't need to reproduce, we technolibertarians going to upload ourselves into more reliable avatars and live forever.

Plus, we can always spawn a few million personality fragments if we need the numbers.

[h-dawg]

"I'd been noticing a trend along these lines, as famous and powerful men took up with young women whose job it was was to care for them and nurture them in some way: their secretaries, assistants, nannies, caterers, flight attendants..."

I'm surprised no-one else has looked at Dowd's incredulous "care and nurture" comment and said, "Duh." I remember in my single days flying all over for my job. Living on an expense account was all right, if often lonely, but I clearly remember thinking that the young flight attendants, check-in girls, waitresses and other women professionally trained to take care of me seemed more desirable than the lawyers and bankers I usually dated simply because I liked being taken care of. I was wary that this "care and nurture" thing might just be a professional cover for scheming harpies, until a couple of colleagues married such girls, and these were the nicest, most caring women you could imagine--the opposite of high maintenance. They weren't rocket scientists, but they weren't dumb, either. They would have written Dowd's article in two pages instead of seven. That would be a good thing.

[Stevo Darkly]

Once again Stevo wins the award for Hit and Run's most creepingly unwholesome poster. Maybe we should call it the Stevo Darkly Award for Excellence in Perversion.

What? What'd I say? What'd I say?

I'm so misunderstood. Such a nice boy.

Although there was one time a couple of female co-workers (and good friends, actually) decried my office as "a museum of perversion" just because I had a Liberty Meadows comic strip and this masterfully composed pulp cover taped to my wall, next to the mounted European tuft-eared red squirrel with a leer on its face like Elvis'.

Oh, and the five plastic turtles on the shelf over my desk that are always arranged like they're humping each other, but I'm not responsible for that -- our IT guy keeps going into my office and rearranging them like that when I'm not around.

(I've since taken down the wall ornaments and the plastic turtles have been celibate for weeks, but I still have the squirrel.)
----

BTW, linguist is married, actually. At least I think I remember her and her dude talking about their recent wedding when I was in Chicago. Unless I was drunk and misremembering.

Trying to think of other chicks who post here.

stubby -- married.

April -- hooked up in some way.

Angela Keaton used to lurk here, but I'm unclear whether she's really into guys all that much.

[Jeff P.]

I've been demoted to "nice libertarian boyfriend." I'm all warm & fuzzy...

Some guys at work and I once discussed what older women we'd still bang. Guys do stuff like that, y'know.
Anyway, we narrowed it down to a four-way with Barbara Eden, Joan Collins, and Sophia Loren. At this point I mentioned such an event would involve sleeping with over 220 years worth of women. We all shuddered.

[h-dawg]

Is that like 30 dog years?

[SY]

Problem is, folks, that most libertarians look like Comic Book Guy.

I'm safe 'cause I don't have a ponytail.

[Mo]

Stevo,
I believe they were heading to a wedding in SC at the time.

Tom,
I did attend the SC vs. ND game and it was awesome. I rooted for ND (though my SC alum father attended) and was approx 7 second from rushing the field. Sadly, I never got the chance to rush the field, nab a pylon and a Song Girl. Don't fret. I will be back in lovely SoCal for a month over Christmas break. We'll grab a beer.

As for how I got out of Gitmo, well that story is a matter of national security. But it involved a coat hanger, a black lace garter and a harmonica.

[mediageek]

And Jeff brings us full circle to the comment made earlier about men preferring a hot 26 year-old to even a hot 80 year-old.

For the record?

Sophia Loren still has it.

To be quite honest, most young women tend to be statists. The best girlfriends I've had were always a couple years older than me, and we tended to be a bit more philosophically close.

I don't know why this is, but a number of libertarian commentators, Mark Penman, Karen Decoster, and a couple of others have written about it.

Honestly, at this point, I'd settle for a girl who's willing to put up with the fact that I'm an unabashed gun nut.

[mediageek]

Problem is, folks, that most libertarians look like Comic Book Guy.

I don't. (Will happily provide pics to anyone who asks.)

[SY]

Will happily provide pics to anyone who asks

Only if you're a hot babe. I've got enough buffarillos in my life. And having been a physics major back in the day, I'm pretty familar with the concept of "stick party."

[mediageek]

I'm lookin' for ladies, man.

[mediageek]

Trying to think of other chicks who post here.

I suppose that Kerry Howley is just chopped liver, eh?

(Though, to be honest, I've never actually seen her post in the a thread.)

[old ARNG guy]

"Buffarillo"

Part buffalo, part gorilla.

Haven't heard that term in years. Takes me back to AT at Fort Drum in the late 80s.

Damn, they had some ugly women in Watertown, NY. Musta needed all the fat for those cold ass winters.

[GreginOz]

Q) How many Libertarians does it take to change a light bulb?
A) Do I get paid to do it?
Q) Paid? Look, just answer the..
A) Am I allowed to wear my gun?
Q) Your what? Now all I asked...
A) Hmm, is it a private property or gummint building?
Q) Huh? What bloody diff...
A) Oh, I see! No transparency, hah! I suppose we'll have to gold an election to see how many...
Q) Aaaargh, just bloody well FORGET IT!!!!
A) Sheesh, waddidisay?

{kicks broken globe across parquetry}

[Stevo Darkly]

Mo --

I forgot to say, "Welcome back!"

[Petunia Picklehead]

Mediageek,

Girls who are interested (or maybe 'curious' is more apt) in guns are more common than you may think.

I'm an awful gun nut myself with pistols, ammo, belgian semi-auto rifles and whatnot all over my little apartment and it *never* seemed to hurt my chances.

/weird, but hey, I just like to ride my gift horses . . .

[mediageek]

PP- In all honesty, that's been my general perception. I have really only ever met one girl I was interested in who flipped out about it, and she was...troubled.

In my experience women tend to pick up the basics of shooting much easier than men, and often rise to a higher level of competence.

[dead_elvis]

I know a couple of single and looking women who pack heat. One is pretty religious-style republican, but the other could be libertarian, except she's obsessed with not letting those awful liberal democrats win anything. She's attractive, 33, and a lawyer. Only catch? She's adamant that she stay home to raise the kids, so earning potential of a mate has always been foremost in her mind. Anyone who earns under 100k a year need not apply. You need to be a doctor/lawyer/upper management.

Which I think is interesting, how success is defined. I mean, some schlub engineer with only a bachelors who makes 50-60k a year, I'd call that pretty damn successful, but for some women that's not enough.

[Shem]

The problem is, Tom, that you just don't have Stevo's raw skill. You make blasphemous, libelous and, let's face it, downright icky comments, but you are just one man. Stevo, on the other hand, has the ability to lower an entire thread into debauchery with but a simple, innocuous-seeming comment. This is the essence of true skill.;)

Unrelated, but anyone willing to teach their significant other how to shoot must have an incredible amount of faith in humanity. With the girls I've dated, the last thing anyone would want to do is train them in the proper use and handling of deadly weapons.

[Twba]

some schlub engineer with only a bachelors

...and a calculator with a lot of buttons. What more could a woman want?

[anonymous]

these women are probably "successful" b/c they are unattractive. therefore they choose to work hard b/c they were never sought after in the first place. why should they be sought after now?

[Stevo Darkly]

Unrelated, but anyone willing to teach their significant other how to shoot must have an incredible amount of faith in humanity. With the girls I've dated, the last thing anyone would want to do is train them in the proper use and handling of deadly weapons.

I used to know a guy who began dating this girl, and he taught her to shoot.

Once while they were doing some target shooting outdoors, she pointed her loaded gun at him. She didn't understand why he got all upset. She explained that it was just a test to see if he trusted her.

Not after that, he didn't. In fact, the relationship ended just about there.

[Hakluyt]

Stevo Darkly,

Jeez. Lesson one: if you are pointing a weapon at a person, it better be in a drill-like situation, or you better be about to pop a cap in their ass.

[Shem]

Yes Hak, I think that was readily apparent from the context of the anecdote.

[kwais]

Stubby is a chick?

[kwais]

Dead Elvis,
I think the standard is 6, 6, and six. Six inches, Six feet, and Six figures.

[SY]

I think the standard is 6, 6, and six. Six inches, Six feet, and Six figures.

I don't care if she is a lawyer, I'm not trimming three inches off. (sfx: rim shot)

Heh, when you get to my age, the standard is more 32 (still have all your teeth).

[keyzerszoze]

I will start a homosexual charity drive to help you poor hets. Your situation is worse than Katrina victims

[keyzerszoze]

How can one not be attracted to "nurturant" people?

Everyone is, not just heterosexual men. A few years back I dated this man who had a very 9-5 job. So when I finished work I would head over to his apartment where (unlike mine) all was neat and in its place, and appetizers and mixed drinks would be ready. Hot meals often appeared. We liked the same TV shows. Unfortunately we weren't really compatible (both tops) so not enuf chemistry. Very hard to break up with a wife even if the sex isn't what is should be.

The heterosexual women I've told this story too all want a wife as well.

[Douglas Fletcher]

Maybe she just has bad breath and nobody's told her yet.

[Twba]

I think the standard is 6, 6, and six. Six inches, Six feet, and Six figures.

When I grossed six figures, I worked at least ninety hours a week. I think I qualified as a born again virgin.

[thoreau]

But Stevo, what if she had the safety on? What's the big deal?

Mechanical safety = Brain substitute

Right?

(Note: The above was sarcasm.)

[Andrew Ian Dodge]

Oh wow a bunch of pushy obnoxious women whingeing they are lonely. I have no sympathy for them at all. I have run into enough of them who think being "strong" means being really vile. I laugh at women like that who treat men like crap all their lives and suddenly realise they are all alone.

[Twba]

Oh wow a bunch of pushy obnoxious women whingeing they are lonely.

Oh, how I want to whinge about a misspelling. I am such a whinging bastard.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Stevo:

Shit, dude. Your story made my jaw drop. To point a loaded (or even unloaded) weapon at someone as a joke/test is either really, really, really, really stupid, or really, really, really really CRAZY. The guy must've been horrified. I'm sure he imagined waking up one day and finding his 9mm pointed at his head like "Goodfellas". RUN FORREST! RUN!!

All this talk about girls looking for the cash-daddies.. it reminds me of when I was hanging out in Annapolis a few years ago with my wing-man. We were making really good time with these cuties all night. Suddenly, these stugs show up, and I swear, the first thing out of their mouths is "We got a BOAT!". BAM!! Both they and the girls disappeared. Not soon afterwards all the lights in the bar turned up and the bouncers threw us out.

[Twba]

Mr. Nice Guy,

How long before you went boat shopping?

[R C Dean]

Once while they were doing some target shooting outdoors, she pointed her loaded gun at him. She didn't understand why he got all upset. She explained that it was just a test to see if he trusted her.

That's just disturbing. Intentionally pointing a loaded gun at someone is prima facie proof that you are untrustworthy. I'da dumped her, too.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Twba:

I love the water, but I'm commiting my boat purchase to my retirement fantasy. If I ever am able to retire (grrrrrrrr...)

[Jennifer]

Stevo, your friend's ex was completely nuts, as you no doubt already know. We women are NOT all like that. But anecdotes like this are why I call myself a "feminist misogynist." Holy Christ on a stick.

On another topic, Jeff is rather upset at being called a "nice libertarian boy," so I just wanted to say here that he's not a nice boy at all, but a dark and brooding man: mad, bad and dangerous to know.

[mediageek]

Once while they were doing some target shooting outdoors, she pointed her loaded gun at him. She didn't understand why he got all upset. She explained that it was just a test to see if he trusted her.

That buries the needle on my psycho detector.

Off-the-muthafuckin'-charts, detached from reality, psychotic whackjob is what that woman was.

That would indeed be a matter of packing up to leave the range right now, giving a very terse speech on the drive, and depositing her on her front door step, never to be seen again.

Jesus Christ.

[Stephanie]

Dowd?s "educated, successful" friends aren?t reaching their personal goals of securing rich men, marriage, reproduction, etc., etc., zzzz, zzzz, zzzz?

Words of advice for any lonely lady whining about their sorry state of pair-up affairs:

1. Stop whining;

2. Stop putting the blame on older men and young women -- put the blame on yourself;

2. change your expectations;

3. and, most importantly, change yourself. What is it about you, that makes you so unappetizing mentally or physically? Fix it.

I?m a 32-year-old with an off-the-charts IQ. I supersede success, in both work and life accomplishments. Attracting rich, successful, powerful men (young, old, or in between) has never been a problem for me. In fact, I can?t swat away the swarms of rich, powerful men fast enough. Hell, I was dating a Hollywood producer but *I* gave him the boot because *he* was too dumb for me.

As for the "bright" and "successful" actress, I doubt she was either. For if she was bright and successful, she?d probably have a different career altogether (i.e., something more challenging than working in the brainless entertainment industry.)

[linguist]

BTW, linguist is married, actually. At least I think I remember her and her dude talking about their recent wedding when I was in Chicago. Unless I was drunk and misremembering.

WHHHHHAAAAA? Holy crap, did I go and get married in my sleep again?

Hang on, let me ask A...

No, he says we aren't married, either.

[linguist]

As for Stevo's friend who gut a look down the barrel...

didn't you say the friend was TEACHING his girl to shoot? Perhaps he didn't emphasize some important safety practices. Sounds to me like she just wasn't aware of the seriousness of her actions, and that would be the fault of poor teaching.

[Jennifer]

didn't you say the friend was TEACHING his girl to shoot? Perhaps he didn't emphasize some important safety practices. Sounds to me like she just wasn't aware of the seriousness of her actions, and that would be the fault of poor teaching.

I dunno, Linguist, sounds to me like "Don't point a loaded gun at people" is something you should know without training. This reminds me of the Chuck Graner/Lynndie England defense tactic: "They were torturing people because they lacked the proper training!" Bullshit--you don't need any specialized education to know it's wrong to torture people, and you don't need specialized training to know you shouldn't be pointing loaded weapons at people.

And as for the INSANE idea "I'm pointing a loaded gun at you to see if you trust me". . . well, I'm wondering how the girl would have reacted if her boyfriend put a knife to her throat and said "Gee, honey, I just want to see if you trust me." It's the same damned, sick, stupid thing.

[Wild Pegasus]

Haven't you read Kurzweil? We don't need to reproduce, we technolibertarians going to upload ourselves into more reliable avatars and live forever.

Live forever? That's going to take a lot of gin.

- Josh

[smacky]

I posted a comment about people screwing and eating dogs today, about people in Texas humping rather than eating cows, about Texans screwing stuffed deer--and it's Stevo who gets the credit for being the most creepingly unwholesome poster!

Hey, Tom, I don't want to hear it. How do you think I feel? I can't get an audience here to save my life. First, being female, none of the sick jokes I make ever even sound credibly raunchy coming from me. Sometimes I even have to resort to using fake handles just to get my cracks in. *Then* I have you and Stevo to compete with. You know the ol' adage about "Too many sickos in one forum...". I picked the wrong blogspot to try to be the most unwholesome internet personality. It's a man's world.

*kicks desk*

ow.

[Serafina]

The girlfriend was stupid and fucking insane. Sheesh.

And I skipped much of the deathless prose in the comments just to say, I can't believe Dowd got a book deal to write drivel like this and gets the Times to excerpt it.

[smacky]

Hey Mr. Nice Guy,

Let me know when you get that boat. 🙂

[mediageek]

Haven't you read Kurzweil? We don't need to reproduce...

Perhaps not. But we* do need to get some attention from the opposite sex.

*You know, the royal "we," man.

[NoStar]

Hey, I HAVE A BOAT!!!!

Libertarian male and born again christian seeks female libertarian christian in Washington state. I have a 30 ft sailboat. See pictures of boat and her owner here:

http://groups.msn.com/BaylinerBuccaneerSloops/nostarandthe305buc.msnw

Contact NoStar at [e-mail]

[smacky]

Perhaps not. But we* do need to get some attention from the opposite sex.

Hey mediageek (and his royal wee),

*bats eyelashes*

*tee hee*

How's that?

[Timothy]

That would indeed be a matter of packing up to leave the range right now, giving a very terse speech on the drive, and depositing her on her front door step, never to be seen again.

Screw that, man. That calls for leaving her ass at the range. She can shoot up some cabby, for all I care, because somebody who has just pointed a loaded gun at me is under no circumstances getting in my car. If she drove, I'll walk. Or hitchhike, it's probably safer.

As for dating, I'm currently involved with a nice, rather liberal gal. She did grow up in the sticks, however, so she has a natural distrust of authority and a love of shooting, so I might be able to turn her to the dark side.

[smacky]

Does anybody else find it funny that the feminist comment thread has, for all intensive purposes, turned into a dating service? Was this intentional? I wonder. Still, it's funny.

[NoStar]

Smacky, It is intentional and funny.

We are never more serious than when we joke.

[R C Dean]

Do not confuse being solemn with being serious.

[Jennifer]

Hey mediageek (and his royal wee),

If I were so inclined, I could make a really, really filthy scatological joke here.

[B.P.]

What is it about this column that has everyone talking? Is it the sheer audacity/moron factor? I was in my car last night listening to the "Drivetime Zoo", where the topic is usually Denver Broncos, news of the weird, who had what for lunch, etc., and they were kicking the Dowd column around. I didn't even know they knew the NY Times existed.

[lonelylady]

wow stephanie. you sound really charming too. a bit short on the nurturance though, and lacking any modesty that i can detect.

[linguist]

Hmm. I think I was seeing the gun incident differently in my head. Y'all are right though. It doesn't sound like this was the case:

Man: ...and here's the safety. When this is flipped this way, the gun won't fire. See, point it out at the target and try to pull the trigger.
Woman: (turns gun toward herself and looks into barrel)
Man: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Don't EVER do that!
Woman: What?! You said it won't fire if the safety's on!
Man: Still, you NEVER do that.

OK, I admit it, I was the woman in this story. Hence my willingness to give the other girl some slack. I did NOT, however, point the gun at someone and pretend to threaten them, as a test of trust. You're right, she's nuts.

[mediageek]

How's that?

Awesome. Thank you. :-p

[Stephanie]

lonelylady:

You're right. No modesty, here when it comes to self confidence. Maybe that's the problem with single whiney "successful" women: they lack of self assurance/confidence.

Maybe if said women would spend more time working on their inner growth and building their self esteem (rather then struggling to prove themselves by overcompensating in work, play, and other social settings), then they wouldn't be single, unwed, and childless.

And I agree with your statement regarding nurturance. My nurturing side probably didn't come across in my initial posting. In person, however, I'm one of the warmest, most loving and nurturing people you (or any man) will ever meet.

[smacky]

I, too, am compelled to chime in that that woman Stevo was talking about is totally nuts. She probably has control issues or is psychotic or something. Very threatening, intentionally or not.

[Dubya]

If I were so inclined, I could make a really, really filthy scatological joke here.

No more scatalogical references.

[Mad Scientist]

NoStar,

You can't have Smacky for your boat. She already lives in my bilge and nags me about not buying her enough pizza.

[Sandy]

Frighteningly, I know at least two women I could easily imagine doing such a thing. "What? Don't you trust me?"

People I trust are trustworthy because they don't point guns at me. It's a quirk, I know, but I like that in a woman.

smacky: rest assured that unlike kwais, I am an untrustworthy manwhore, so your generalization is not unwarranted. I still don't point guns at people, though.

[Jennifer]

People I trust are trustworthy because they don't point guns at me. It's a quirk, I know, but I like that in a woman.

Geez, Sandy, talk about your high standards!

[dead_elvis]

Up next on Elimidate: A trip to the shooting range! Everybody take cover!

[smacky]

smacky: rest assured that unlike kwais, I am an untrustworthy manwhore, so your generalization is not unwarranted.

Sandy,

Another mirage, vanished before my eyes. tsk, tsk. Thanks -- your warning is duly noted.

Mad Scientist,

Yeah, but I might not inhabit your boat forever. As a self-proclaimed 'Boat Nymph' I can and will make a nest in the boat of my liking, especially if bribes and free alcohol are involved. And will you lay off the anchovy pizzas already? They're giving me bad gas.

[Sandy]

Smacky:

Technically, I suppose I should say "aspiring to be" an untrustworthy manwhore, but I'm starting really well. I'm totally supposed to be working but I'm posting instead. That makes me a rebel, right?

Jennifer:

I know. I also have little issues about "a pulse" and "not an axe-murderer."

They used to be even higher when I was a Hollywood producer, but then this woman dumped me for being dumb.

[Mad Scientist]

Geez, Smacky, I've been pouring Guinness and Makers Mark down there. You're still thirsty? I think I have some Stolichnaya in the freezer if you prefer. Sorry, but I can't help with the anchovies. They live around here by the gajillions and the Port Authority says we either have to eat them or pay higher taxes for their relocation to another habitat.

[Stevo Darkly]

linguist -- Sorry I had you prematurely married off! I must have misremembered a story about someone else's wedding.

didn't you say the friend was TEACHING his girl to shoot? Perhaps he didn't emphasize some important safety practices. Sounds to me like she just wasn't aware of the seriousness of her actions, and that would be the fault of poor teaching.

Possibly. Although, generally speaking, the guy was a natural-born teacher, very good at presenting information. Our online community even nick-named him "Doc Obi-Wan" because of his aptitude for imparting wisdom, especially when it came to fighting. When I knew him, he was a Green Beret and an instructor (I think) at the Army's Special Warfare Center. He also taught martial arts and women's self-defense classes.

(Hey! I found an old note from the guy online here.)

However ... when this story happened, he was much younger and maybe not as adept a teacher. Or maybe he assumed too much sense in her. Or maybe she was stupid and the instructions just didn't sink in.

[NoStar]

Smacky and mad Scientist,
Bad gas building up in the bilge is a recipe for a explosion on a boat.

[Lincoln]

Which seems, in the end, at least as "superficial" as marrying a Jessica Simpson clone to feel better about yourself.

You say this like Jessica Simpson has been cloned and such clones are readily available. Which hasn't been done. Right? If Jessica has been cloned I may have a friend who's interested. Not me though. I know Jesus would disapprove. But who am I to judge my friend? No one, that's who. Just forward me the contact info and I'll pass it along. And make sure she comes with a mute switch.

[Mad Scientist]

NoStar,

No worries. Methane gases rise. It's the heavier-than-air stuff like propane and gasoline fumes that explode boats. I have a fume detector that automatically activates the bilge blower, so Smacky is safe and sound down there so long as we don't agitate her too much.

[Jennifer]

However ... when this story happened, he was much younger and maybe not as adept a teacher. Or maybe he assumed too much sense in her. Or maybe she was stupid and the instructions just didn't sink in.

Not in the context you described, no. She's just nuts, and probably has some super-messed-up control issues.

If you're teaching me how to use a hunting knife, and I endanger you by cutting while holding the blade at an angle that could easily slip and hurt you, that is due to my ignorance or your teaching ability. That probably shouldn't be held against me. But if I hold the point of the knife to your neck and say "I want to see if you trust me," that isn't ignorance; that's just sick.

As is pointing a loaded weapon at a man and saying "I want to see if you trust me."

[Shem]

Hey, Tom, I don't want to hear it. How do you think I feel? I can't get an audience here to save my life.

Sorry Smacky. Keep trying though. You might win a Stevo one of these days.

[mk]

Women have every right to marry up just as much as men have the right to gravitate towards nurturers. Myself, I married down - an Appalachian beauty school dropout (she was awfully purty tho). No problem with that. She had zero nurturing ability, but I turned out to be a nurturing fembot so no big whoop.

Anyway, on the topic of the unfortunate libertarian girl/boy ratio, why is this even being discussed in one of the most pro-outsourcing communities around? There are tons of nice young girls in the Ukraine and Bulgaria who are willing to live with you and not mess with your Star Wars figurine collection. If that seems too lame for you, you can always get your skritch on at the local Furry Convention or something. We should also seriously think about outsourcing our reproduction. People from third-world countries are far more hearty from having survived for centuries without proper healthcare. We westerners are a soft and sickly bunch. It just makes good economic sense.

[Xmas]

mk

I can always ask my grandfather's new Brazilian wife if she has any nieces looking for a fresh start at life.

[mediageek]

Furry Convention?

I may be a libertarian, but that doesn't make me a freak.

Take your impure thoughts somewhere else, filthy CosPlayer!

[lonelylady]

Steph,

For the record, I think Dowd's 'analysis' of relations between successful men and women is every bit as baseless as other posters on this thread do. Generalizing about the state of relations between the sexes based on the personal, biased observations of one's in-crowd, especially an in-crowd as rarefied as hers, can only result in unjustified conclusions. And no doubt, any person who blames her solitude on on others, particularly an entire class of others, isn't helping herself.

Nevertheless, it always gives me pause to encounter people who have apparently never actually had a particular problem making harsh directives about how the people who do have it can solve it, especially when it comes to problems in the psychological, psychodynamic, and interpersonal realms. I have the same reaction to people who have never seriously suffered from depression who very insensitively direct others to get over it, quit complaining, get on with life, etc.

[mk]

Xmas,

If you want to meet Brazilians, go and hang out on Orkut. They have completely taken that thing over. Be prepared to dance all night and enjoy large amounts of grilled meats. Brazilians are awesome!

[mk]

mediageek,

tsk-tsk. Cosplay and furries are like totally different! I would never wear a bear suit with a conveniently situated opening, but appearing in public dressed as a World Of Warcraft character or as a character from Inuyasha isn't out of the question. I mean that's just accessorizing, ya know.

[Stevo Darkly]

I was going to say this earlier, before our server went limp again:

I can't get an audience here to save my life. First, being female, none of the sick jokes I make ever even sound credibly raunchy coming from me.

smacky, please rest assured that many of your comments have made me LOL -- but this isn't the kind of place where people post messages simply to say "LOL." You know, the first two months I posted here, I was convinced most people thought I was just stupid, because of the completely "deadpan" response. Just because you can't hear the laughter coming through your monitor doesn't mean it isn't there.

It is true, however, that guys have an easier time sounding sick and raunchy just because they are guys. This is known as "the jackass ceiling."

[Stevo Darkly]

PS: I don't have a boat, but my oldest friend does! He's married, but you lasses could probably cadge a few rides by cozying up to me. I'm just saying.

And the bilges are downright luxurious ...

[NoStar]

Hmmm? Still no responses to my e-mail address.
Do you think I need a bigger boat?

[D-FENS]

Hmmm? Still no responses to my e-mail address.
Do you think I need a bigger boat?

Maybe you need a bigger dinghy!

[Mad Scientist]

I think we're trawling in the wrong place, NoStar. And no, you don't need a bigger boat. If you get a bigger boat, then I'LL have to get a bigger boat and then we'll be right back where we started, only much deeper in debt.

[Stevo Darkly]

There's a song they used to play on a local radio station -- it sounded like it was sung by the Andrews Sisters:

He's got the cutest little dinghy in the Navy!
Heave ho! Heave ho!
He's got the cutest little dinghy in the Navy!
Heave ho! Heave ho!

It isn't very long
And it isn't very short
It's built for speedy action
And it gets him home to port

It isn't very narrow
And it isn't very wide
You should see it slipping
In and out with the tide!

He's got the cutest little dinghy in the Navy!
Heave ho! Heave ho!

[smacky]

I only have one thing to say about the Andrews Sisters: filthy smut.

[Jennifer]

Stevo, that was hilarious. Was it meant to be such a double entendre, or was it accidental?

[KW]

lonelylady:

Your name speaks for itself. Classic victim mentality.

Sincerely,
Single Female, Not Lonely

(Yes, you can be single and be happy. However, if I happened to find myself single and lonely, I?d do whatever it took to resolve the situation so I could be happy and not lonely, or in a relationship and happy . . . instead of being lonely and whiney.)

[Stevo Darkly]

I did some research, and apparently the song is called "Davy's Dinghy." It was written and performed by Ruth Wallis, a singer of the 1940s or '50s, who was known as 'high priestess of the double entendre,' and the 'queen of the wicked ditties,' so I guess it's on purpose.

She sounds like a fascinating lady, but I'll have to let you do further research on your own because I'm at work, and need to get back to it.

[NoStar]

Mad Scientist,
How big is your boat?

[mediageek]

MK, not my style, but if it makes ya happy, I'm sure gaius marius will declare it to be a sign of the fall of Western Civilization.

However, if I happened to find myself single and lonely, I?d do whatever it took to resolve the situation so I could be happy and not lonely, or in a relationship and happy . . .

I'm working on this, but finding it somewhat difficult, what with being an introvert and all. Not whining, just sayin'.

[LL]

Single Female:

"Your name speaks for itself. Classic victim mentality."

There wasn't a word of complaint about or blame for my situation in either of my posts. In fact, I even made a statement acknowledging the basic futility of blaming in my second post, which perhaps you overlooked:

"And no doubt, any person who blames her solitude on others, particularly an entire class of others, isn't helping herself."

"Yes, you can be single and be happy."

Thanks. I've been around the block a time or two, and I don't need to be told that one can be single and happy. There have been times in my life when that description applied. But even in my better times, I try to have a little sensitivity and humility towards others who are in less positive states of being.

In choosing to identify myself as 'loneylady,' I was revealing information about my personal relationship to the issue at hand. It might not be a flattering acknowledgment, and nor was a complete assessment about myself and my state of happiness or unhappiness. But I don't mind acknowledging less flattering facts about myself. And it was an accurate acknowledgement to the extent that it applies.

"However, if I happened to find myself single and lonely, I?d do whatever it took to resolve the situation so I could be happy and not lonely, or in a relationship and happy"

Maybe you would, and maybe your efforts would be successful. But do you have any idea how obnoxious and sanctimonious individuals of your ilk come across when making broad pronouncements about what people who have failed where they have apparently succeeded should do to resolve their problems, and how certain they are that you will never find themselves in the other position?

Well, never mind answering that question, unless there are any surprises in your answer. For now, I'm assuming that you do not know how obnoxious and sanctimonious you come across.

[Mad Scientist]

NoStar, 1972 Ericson 35 Mk-II. Hull number 223.

[NoStar]

Mad Scientist,
I guess I'll have to console myself with the old lie "Size doesn't matter."

Hey wait, Yours may be longer, but I bet mine is wider.

[crimethink]

If you are alone by yourself, you will forever be alone with others.

[Stevo Darkly]

Pictures of my boat here:

http://www.residensea.com

But I'm going to upgrade to this one as soon as it's ready:

http://www.freedomshipcity.com

[Mr. Nice Guy]

Okay.. I think I will buy a boat. And it will have a nice sundeck. Not that I would ever use it, because I hate sunbathing.

But it WILL have a sundeck..

[Jennifer]

Gentlemen, gentlemen, you don't want a woman who only wants you for your boat.

[smacky]

Mr. Nice Guy,

Better make sure it has a moon roof, too. So we can work on our moon tans, of course. :p

[NoStar]

You are right, Jennifer.

I hope she wants me for my dinghy too.

[bob mologna]

Crazy ex girlfriends with guns... check. I had an ex who actually shot at me with a .357 because I refused to dance with her at a KAREOKE BAR fer fucks sake! Missed by about 12" but I don't think she meant to hit me...

Personaly, I refuse to let politics get in the way of a good shag. My wife is a libertarian though.