Iraq's Scrap of Paper
In Slate, Fred Kaplan has written another critical piece on the Iraqi constitution, urging that it be rejected by voters in an October 15 referendum. There is much I agree with in what Kaplan says, particularly that the constitution is likely to fuel more Sunni violence, because the community will clearly be much the poorer relative in a new Iraqi federal arrangement.
Where I believe Kaplan errs is that at this stage it may already be too late to prevent a breakup of the unitary Iraqi state--in essence a Kurdish north and a Shiite south that will be virtually autonomous politically and economically. Constitution or no constitution, Iraq's future seems beyond a written document. Kaplan writes:
The Iraqi insurgency--the main impediment to social, economic, and political order--is principally a Sunni insurgency. Any constitution worth its name would have to lure or co-opt the Sunnis, to give them an incentive to join the new political order. The actual proposed constitution, on the other hand, formally confirms and reinforces the Sunnis' sense of disenfranchisement.
True, and in many ways the greatest American mistake in Iraq was to misunderstand the pull of minority anxieties, so that relatively quickly Sunnis felt that the United States was easing Iraq's transfer to majority Shiite power. That was perhaps inevitable, inasmuch as any dismantling of Saddam Hussein's regime was bound to hit the Sunnis hardest. However, in the eyes of many Sunnis it's the defenders of Iraq's "unity"--themselves, but also such Shiite politicians as Muqtada al-Sadr--who the U.S. seems to have targeted as its worst enemies.
Whether these perceptions are justified is a different matter. However Kaplan (or the International Crisis Group, which he cites) rightly believes the unfair constitution will only make matters worse (mainly because Sunnis are unlikely to get much oil). Yet the logical conclusion of that argument is that, whether or not the constitution is rejected on October 15, sectarian and ethnic relations in Iraq will worsen anyway, making it highly improbable that Kurds and Shiites will go back on what they consider today their nonnegotiable demands of autonomy; both already manage their geographic regions areas independently, and whatever happens to the constitution, they are not likely to cede any of that leeway (particularly on oil revenues) to Sunnis.
My very unsophisticated fear is that what we may eventually have is a struggle for control in mixed Arab Sunni-Kurd and Arab Sunni-Shiite areas--something similar to what occurred in Bosnia. The gun will do the talking, as well as the vested interests of surrounding states (Iran in particular is keen to see a broken Iraq, which removes its main regional rival). Where the Bosnia comparison may not hold, however, is in the continued presence of American forces. The U.S. will still be able to prevent all-out war by remaining (and we should understand that we are not halfway there yet); and even if American forces were to leave, would Washington be able to keep them away for long if Iraq turned into a regional free-for-all?
I doubt it.
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Maybe it will alienate the sunnis. Question is, how much more alienated can they get? they're scared because they're no longer able to apply their jackboots to the neck of the rest of the country. Any system that wasn't essentially the same old system is going to leave the Sunni's holding their dicks. In a way I see the Sunni's as analgous to the Nazi party members--- who were totally alienated in post-war Germany. And rightly so. Or the Klan, which was a similiar attempt to restore the antebellum order by terrorizing the populace based on ethnic/racial lines. Why giving them more power, when all they've done is try to destroy the new government is a good idea escapes me.
Of all of Bush's mistakes in Iraq- and Woden knows, it's an impressive list- one of his very worst was letting that thug al-Sadr live.
the Nazi party members--- who were totally alienated in post-war Germany.
Except the many who weren't, of course.
"My very unsophisticated fear is that what we may eventually have is a struggle for control in mixed Arab Sunni-Kurd and Arab Sunni-Shiite areas--something similar to what occurred in Bosnia."
One of the things that may assuage concerns in Sunni-Kurd areas is that Sunnis may perceive a comparative advantage to living in a strong Kurdistan. ...If things go so poorly for Sunnis in Sunni areas, Sunnis in Kurdistan may cling to a stable Kurdish government rather than rebel against it.
...Someone tell me, how are everyday Sunnis faring in Kurdistan now?
I see little to assuage such concerns regarding Arab Sunnis living in Shiite areas. I don't see what Shiite leaders have to gain by concessions to Sunnis and I don't see what Sunnis have to gain by conceding to the kind of immediate secession for which the proposed Iraqi constitution provides.
The U.S. will still be able to prevent all-out war (and we should understand that we are not halfway there yet) by remaining; and even if American forces were to leave, would Washington be able to keep them away for long if Iraq turned into a regional free-for-all?
I don't understand why the presence of American forces prevents an "all-out" civil war. ...Unless by "all-out" we're talking about a war with tanks and an air force, etc. If Iraq descends into civil war, the United States will leave Iraq.
I assume the latest developments prove that Bashaar Assad is on his last legs?
I mean, you have to understand that our constitution was set up to prevent type 1 errors (bum laws), based on the principle that it's better to have no law then bad laws. In this light, criticism is not such a bad thing.
We hated that Hussein guy cuz he was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too.
"Iran in particular is keen to see a broken Iraq, which removes its main regional rival."
That is funny becouse I always thought Saudia Arabia was Iran's main regional rival.
Also the points made seem to hint that no matter what if Suddam lost power iraq would fall apart...I guess that is the whole CIA argument and why the US first supported Suddam.
I wonder, perhaps, if the Bush administration already knows this...anway I doubt it will turn into Bosnia. but Iraq becoming 2-3 different states is a good possiblity and not exactly a bad thing.
Any news yet on that bombed planted in the middle of the road?
Analyst like Kaplan seem incapable of considering that various Iraqi might be perfectly capable of following their own enlightened self-interest instead of behaving like robots programmed for self-destruction. Just about everybody in Iraq understands that a knockdown drag out civil war is in no ones interest. Likewise, few major groups have a keen interest in breaking the country up and letting it fall prey to nearby powers. Sunni do not wish to be totally dependent on outside Sunni and the Shia don't want to be dependent on Iran.
Prior to the liberation, it was revealed wisdom among many that explosive ethnic conflict would occur almost immediately after Saddam's fall. The Kurds were going to slaughter all the Sunni in Mosul etc. Yet none of that materialized. Each election is predicted to be a disaster but turns out well.
The people of Iraq are not stupid.
"In a way I see the Sunni's as analgous to the Nazi party members--- who were totally alienated in post-war Germany."
This is not true at all, at least in West Germany. Most of them integrated comfortably into the Federal Republic's democratic system. One of them (Kurt Georg Kiesinger) actually became Chancellor!
(The East Germans loved to point to all the ex-Nazis in positions of influence in the Federal Republic but the GDR made use of a fair number as well...)
Just about everybody in Iraq understands that a knockdown drag out civil war is in no ones interest.
That's true, Shannon, but has there ever been a "knockdown drag out civil war" that was in the best interests of the majority of participants? Oh, sure, every civil war has its beneficiaries (frequently including leaders of one or more factions), but has there ever been a really ugly civil war that benefited most of the participants? It's not like every civil war in the history of the world has been fought by conscripts.
I'm not predicting doom and gloom, but optimistic predictions should be predicated on an assessment of events, not an assessment of disincentives for war.
"Prior to the liberation, it was revealed wisdom among many that explosive ethnic conflict would occur almost immediately after Saddam's fall."
No, Shannon, the word "immediately" was never part of that critique. As we watch interethnic violence (such as the Kurd-sponsored cleansing of Mosul) increase, and the institutional fixes designed to protect against it collapse, you are left arguing that the tensions haven't broken out into war yet. Well, be patient.
"In a way I see the Sunni's as analgous to the Nazi party members" Toxic Bigot, there are roughly 9 million Sunni Arabs in Iraq, IIRC. How nice of you to see them all as Nazis, and impute to all 9 million - including those tribes that were horribly oppressed by Saddam's Tikriti gang - the contention that they just want to put their boots on people's necks. You would call anyone who made trouble for the neocon crusade a Nazi, wouldn't you?
So Shannon, the Iraqis are too irrational for deterrence to work as a solution to the massive threat posed by their WMDs, but just rational enough to allow the desire to avoid war to overcome their ancient animosities and the structural conflicts pushing them towards conflict.
That's quite a needle to thread.
So Shannon, the Iraqis are too irrational for deterrence to work as a solution to the massive threat posed by their WMDs, but just rational enough to allow the desire to avoid war to overcome their ancient animosities and the structural conflicts pushing them towards conflict.
joe-
While I frequently agree with your points concerning Iraq, this argument is not a very good one. One could believe that Hussein's regime was undeterrable, but that the current leaders of the various factions are indeed rational.
Not saying I take that point, but you did an apples to oranges comparison there. The fact that I frequently agree with you on Iraq-related matters makes me all the more disappointed when you provide them with something to tear into.
The US of A are going too fast in Iraq. The Iraqi political calendar should be a slow democratization process and cannot be set accordingly to the political life in Washington.
This constitution is an error, the negociation should have taken more time. Patience is the key of success. The issue of oil sharing should have been explicitly addressed and resolved in the fundamental law. The constitution is likely to be rejected by the Sunnis (so rejected altogether)
and it will lead to a deterioration of the political climate.
It's very possible that we're heading for a break-up in Iraq. Bush wants to fix everything by 2008 but it's unrealistic.
I know it's considered pass? now to talk about how the war was a bad idea, but there were those of us who spoke of this probable but unhappy eventuality back when we invaded.
...As I recall, we talked about how wrong we hoped we'd be. ...Just for the record, I still hope I'm wrong.
joe- I think you mean Kirkuk. That's where the keg of dynamite is.
What should be Iraq's political system? A federation? rejected by the Sunnis. A centralized state run by the majority? Rejected by the Sunnis and the kurds. Some Sunnis still dream about a restoration of a Sunni state, but it's not going to happen.
I would favor the federal solution with a fair sharing of the oil ressources (and a premium to the Shias since the oil is mostly in their areas).
But it seems that the federation is not likely to happen. One solution remain: a consociational system, a centralized state but in which the decisions are based on consensus and the minorities are over represented. But I am not sure why the Shia would accept that.
The main problem is that in Iraq, unlike Lebanon, the political culture needed for a consociational system is not present. Lebanon had a 20-year French mandate to build its political system, and the seeds of the system were already there when the French came. In the Iraqi case, president Bush wants to get out of Iraq in 2 years. Way too short to build anything.
If a federation or consociational system doesn't work, than it means that we must stop kidding ourselves and that we can't have a united Iraq.
Shannon- are you aware that the Kurds had a civil war in the 90's?
D'oh! Kirkuk!
thoreau, I agree with your criticism, but only because I can see a distinction between the leadership of the intransient Sunnis, both in and out of the insurgency, and the Baathist regime.
"What should be Iraq's political system?" I have no idea, and neither does anyone else who isn't from Iraq. No process that doesn't take that fact into account, and which doesn't put the self-determination of Iraqis first, rather than treat it as the prize we'll use to reward them if they're good, is doomed to failure.
As far as oil money goes, the proposed Iraqi constitution doesn't leave Sunnis out of the loop. As regards natural resources (including oil), "distributing the revenues resulting from their sale through the national budget in an equitable manner proportional to the distribution of population throughout the country..."
So, it's by population.
It makes absolutely no sense for the Kurds to accept anything more centralized than this constitution. Certainly, you might not get Sunni buy-in with it, but Kurds have every incentive, economic and historical, to demand either semi-sovereignty or the full deal.
The interesting dynamic then becomes Arab. In an Iraq-minus-Kurdistan, the Shiites outnumber the Sunnis 3-to-1. Why wouldn't the Shiites accept a unitary state with national oil revenues, if they get to run the whole place?
Interestingly, the current constitution could theoretically give us that approximate order anyway -- if the Sunni and Shiite provincial leaders can agree to form a single Arab region. The Shiite politicians would trade money for more power; the Sunnis would trade dominance of a poor and weak region for money and influence as a swing minority.
"...Someone tell me, how are everyday Sunnis faring in Kurdistan now?"
Sunni Kurds and Shia Kurds are doing peachy. They are getting along swimmingly. And everything north of Kirkuk is relatively peaceful.
Americans can walk around unarmed in Sulimania and Erbil, and they will only be approached by people full of gratitude.
kwais-
What would you say the prospects are for those conditions coming about in the rest of Iraq? Is it just a matter of time, where Iraq has to go through a period of turmoil like the Kurds went through with their civil war?
What would you say is the most important thing that could be done to bring about similar conditions in the rest of Iraq? More importantly, what is the worst mistake to avoid? And, most important of all, what is the most important factor that is beyond our control, that will remain a roll of the dice even in the best plan?
Too many people talk about "this is what needs to be done" without acknowledging factors beyond our control. I'm curious what somebody involved in the situation thinks the biggest X factor is.
As regards natural resources (including oil), "distributing the revenues resulting from their sale through the national budget in an equitable manner proportional to the distribution of population throughout the country..."
Fine words, but the Sunni Arabs are all too aware that that's all they are. Almost all of Iraq's major oil fields are in Kurd- or Shia Arab-controlled areas, meaning that Sunni Arabs will be held by the short hairs by two groups who have little reason to love them. I think that the Bosnia analogy is very appropriate, with the Sunni Arabs occupying the position of the Bosniaks - however things shake out, I doubt that the Sunni Arabs will enjoy the results.
Any news yet on that bombed planted in the middle of the road?
I've always respected tenacity. I sometimes think of myself as being a little tenacious.
...What do you mean I can't be a "little" tenacious?!
Anyway, Mr. Young linked to something some months back suggesting that there may have been a bomb in the middle of the road. ...and I noticed your missing comment. Perhaps you never saw the post?
http://www.reason.com/hitandrun/2005/06/over_or_under.shtml
"...more Sunni violence, because the community will clearly be much the poorer relative in a new Iraqi federal arrangement."
I have a lot of respect for Michael Young, but isn't it obvious that in any equitable arrangement in post-liberation Iraq, the Sunnis as a whole are gonna fare worse, because pre-liberation, a subset of them exploited the whole populace of Iraq?
Like plantation owners in Antebellum Southern US, life is gonna change when the slaves are freed. The insurgents in Iraq are most like the KKK, but somehow they have a good press agent.
"I have a lot of respect for Michael Young, but isn't it obvious that in any equitable arrangement in post-liberation Iraq, the Sunnis as a whole are gonna fare worse, because pre-liberation, a subset of them exploited the whole populace of Iraq?"
Sunni factions are likely to fare worse because the other factions have all but written the secession process into the proposed constitution.
Article (114):
1st -- This constitution, when implemented, shall endorse the region of Kurdistan and its existing power as a federal region.
2nd -- This constitution shall endorse the new regions that will be established according to the provisions of the constitution.
Article (115): The Council of Representatives shall pass a law that fixes the executive procedures relating to establishing regions by simple majority in a period that does not exceed six months from the date of the first session.
Article (116): Every province or more has the right to establish a region based on a request for a referendum to be submitted in one of the following ways:
1st -- A request from one-third of the members in each of the provincial councils in the provinces that wish to establish a region.
2nd -- A request from one-tenth of the voters in each of the provinces that wish to establish a region.
Article (117):
The region writes a constitution for itself, defines the structure of the region's powers and its authorities as well as the mechanism of using these powers in a way that does not run contrary to the constitution.
Article (118):
1st -- The governments of regions have the right to practice legislative, executive and judicial powers according to this constitution, except in what is listed as exclusive powers of the federal authorities.
2nd -- The regional authority has the right to amend the implementation of the federal law in the region in the case of a contradiction between the federal and regional laws in matters that do not pertain to the exclusive powers of the federal authorities.
3rd -- A fair share of the revenues collected federally is designated to regions, in a way that suffices their duties and (responsibilities), taking into consideration the (region's) resources, needs and (the percentage of the population in it.)
4th -- Offices for regions and provinces are to be established in embassies and diplomatic missions to follow up on cultural, social and local development affairs.
5th -- The regional government shall be in charge of all that's required for administering the region, especially establishing and regulating internal security forces for the region such as police, security and guards for the region.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/international/iraqtext_new.html
"The insurgents in Iraq are most like the KKK, but somehow they have a good press agent."
Well not so much a good press agent but huge monetary support from neighbor countries. And aid from their intelligence agencies.
Thoreau,
One thing about Kurdistan, is that maybe it is not so safe for Arabs. I have heard talk about Arabs being strictly watched when the enter Kurdish protected areas. Which I suppose is one reason why they are so safe, but also not a good thing for a multi-ethnic, multicultural country.
As for what to do, I really wish I had the answer. My guess would be to minimize US presense but still appear strong enough to deal with any major problems.
I also wish the State Dept wouldn't do some things on the cheap. I wish they wouldn't go with the lowest bidder on who to train the Iraqi police and military.
I really think that terrorism isn't going to be Iraq's biggest problem, I think that corruption will be. I think that crime and terrorism will be the result of corruption. And I have long thought about how to instill in a society the need to not have corruption.
I mean we had Bill Clinton, and Tom Delay (if the reports of him are correct) and we seem to accept them as OK. But for the most part I think that we don't accept corruption.
I am hoping that the Iraqi voters won't either.
I was told that Iraqi's learned a lot in the last election. A lot of them learnt having voted for the wrong person the first time around.
Lucky for them it appears that Allawi was a good person to have voted for. If they can learn and they vote for non corrupt leaders they will have a chance, and the money that their surrounding neighbors put into bringing down the democracy will not be enough.
OK, I think I am rambling now. I have a lot of emotions and thoughts about Iraq, and I perhaps need to organize them a little better.
"But for the most part I think that we don't accept corruption."
I guess you missed the last highway bill.
"I have a lot of respect for Michael Young, but isn't it obvious that in any equitable arrangement in post-liberation Iraq, the Sunnis as a whole are gonna fare worse, because pre-liberation, a subset of them exploited the whole populace of Iraq?"
That doesn't follow. That "subset" was oppressing the majority of Sunnis, too. Under a system that managed not to oppress anyone, the majority of Sunnis - which is close enought to "the Sunnis as a whole" for government work - would be much better off.
The eagerness among hawks to demonize 9 million people, assign them collective guilt for the sins of the Baathist regime, and accept any harm done to them by the Shiites and Kurds as justified collective punishment, puts the lie to the "freedom human rights" rhetoric used to justify this adventure.
"accept any harm done to them by the Shiites and Kurds"
This is a little funny. What harm has the Shiites and Kurds wrought on the Sunnis? It seems to me you are convicting them of crimes that are not yet committed.
The Shiites and Kurds have given the Sunnis a constiution that at least expresses the concepts of human rights and rule of law. That is more than Sunni rule has ever done..
nds, this entire thread is about the future consequences of the new Constitution. It was positted that various harms would be done to the Sunnis, to which some commenters have responded with "Good, they deserve it."
"The Shiites and Kurds have given the Sunnis a constiution that at least expresses the concepts of human rights and rule of law."
Ever read the Soviet Constitution? The Chinese?
Such noble expositions on human rights and liberties, they'd stir your soul if you didn't know anything about history.
The eagerness among hawks to demonize 9 million people, assign them collective guilt for the sins of the Baathist regime, and accept any harm done to them by the Shiites and Kurds as justified collective punishment, puts the lie to the "freedom human rights" rhetoric used to justify this adventure.
joe, this seems to be more rhetoric than reality, IMHO. Speaking as a hawk, I haven't seen this demonization of all Iraqi Sunnis. I think you're overstating the reference to Nazism regarding the Sunnis, as it was my understanding that this was about the Sunni Baathists only - not Sunnis collectively.
Now, I'm sure you'll be able to find examples of idiot hawks ranting about ALL of Iraq's Sunnis, but that's as reasonable as it would be for me to imply that all Americans who are anti-war are members of International ANSWER. To paraphrase Jon Stewart, "people say stupid shit all the time."
Mike H, "I think you're overstating the reference to Nazism regarding the Sunnis, as it was my understanding that this was about the Sunni Baathists only - not Sunnis collectively." I don't believe this distinction was made in the Toxic comment I was resonding to. And I don't find it to be rare at all. There has been a consistent theme of "well, they've got it coming" as a favorit hawk response to the alienation and non-participation of the Sunnis.
And I don't find it to be rare at all. There has been a consistent theme of "well, they've got it coming" as a favorit hawk response to the alienation and non-participation of the Sunnis.
Oh yeah, man, I'm not saying it's not "rare," but I am saying that it's been my experience that those people fall under the subset of hawks known as the Idiots.
It seems to me that to criticize the idiot hawks and the loony doves is to take the easy way out of the argument. See what I'm screamin'?
OK.
Well not so much a good press agent but huge monetary support from neighbor countries. And aid from their intelligence agencies.
Not more aid than Kurds and Shia get from far a way countries and their intelligence agencies.
"Ever read the Soviet Constitution? The Chinese?
Such noble expositions on human rights and liberties, they'd stir your soul if you didn't know anything about history"
Clearly a constitution by itself is no guarantee of human rights and rule of law. There has to be a willingness to follow it. And it is easy to look at history in the Mid East and say it can never happen there. It seems like some opponents of the war want to stack the deck so that any outcome is failure. A subset of the Sunni minority brutalized and abused the country for decades. Say your worst fears (hopes) are realized and a subset of a Shia majority brutalizes and abuses it for a few decades maybe both sides will come together.
But it seems to me many other more positive outcomes are possible. If the outcome of the election process in Iraq is that it divides into three countries, what is wrong with that? People in the Mid East have been killing each other of race and religion for centuries. Maybe religious and ethnic segregation with big walls in between is the best solution for the whole place.
Maybe religious and ethnic segregation with big walls in between is the best solution for the whole place.
But I must be allowed to trod upon the same chunk of dirt my holy prophet trod upon over a thousand years ago. I must also be allowed to trod upon any dirt that his followers trod upon. Anyone who trods upon any of this dirt must follow the strict rules of the prophet or face death.
nds, "Say your worst fears (hopes) are realized and a subset of a Shia majority brutalizes and abuses it for a few decades maybe both sides will come together." That's totally worth $200 billion, 2000 Americans, and maybe 50,000 or more Iraqis.
"People in the Mid East have been killing each other of race and religion for centuries." Tyrants like Saddam Hussein have been oppressing people in the Mid East for centuries too.