"When We Act, We Create Our Own Reality" (Baghdad Bob Redux)

CNN contrasts FEMA chief Michael Brown's account of conditions in New Orleans with the reports emerging from the trenches.

Comments

[Jennifer]

I just don't understand this. I mean, I understand (though disapprove of) the desire to suppress bad news, but who would think they could possibly succeed in this case? It's one thing to try and stage a cover-up of bad events that might occur in Pisspot, Oklahoma (pop. 18), but New Orleans?

[Jennifer]

And with thousands of news cameras all over the place?

[Jennifer]

CNN and MSNBC are both reporting that military convoys are now arriving with supplies and security. Hopefully this miserable situation will be over soon.

[ChicagoTom]

Jennifer,

its not really a cover-up. As long as Brown and Chertoff keep repeating the "we are doing what we can" and "everything is under control" mantra there will be plenty of water carriers for the admin that will happily parrot those same points over and over again, and remind people that the only real problem with the aid getting to people is the looters and other miscreants in the city that keep "shooting at the helpers"

In this administration reality is what they and their shills say it is.

What I want to know is
How come no one is asking why the head of FEMA has no experience whatsoever in emergency management?

[Dynamist]

Y'all are gonna love this--

I don't see much of a "disconnect". What the Fed heads said is about as accurate as what the local heads said. The report seems like a Rorschach (that actually is shaped liked a penis).

Take what each of those people say, from their filters and perspective, and it all seems pretty consistent. The suffering make it out to be as bad as imaginable, the Feds make it out to be "under control", the reporters make the presentation as dramatic as possible, and Nagin is overwhelmed and exhausted.

Katrina has given me a first-hand perspective of just how crappy national coverage is. It's all bias and drama. Local coverage is about people, places, facts, and explanations. If you base decisons on non-local knowledge, you'll get ill-fitting results.

[Adam]

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING?

Make sure to listen to the link "Armed Addicts Fighting for a Fix"

"Drug-starving, crazy addicts - drug addicts - wreaking havoc, and we don't have the resources to deal with it.." - Mayor of New Orleans

[Devin McCullen]

I liked this particular link to one of their stories:

(See Jack Cafferty's rant on the government's 'bungled' response -- 0:57)

[Dynamist]

Drug-starving, crazy addicts - drug addicts - wreaking havoc, and we don't have the resources to deal with it..

That, my friend, is Cooper, St. Bernard, Iberville, Fischer, most of the 6th Ward, etc., every day, rain or shine.

Welcome to New Orleans. Bet I can tell ya where ya got dem shoes.

[mewsifer]

"Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure"

While were using a huge national tragedy as yet another opportunity to bash Bu$h (becuase, really, that's all life is about these days) we might just extend the fun to talk about the Democratic machine that is (and has been for a long, long time) Louisiana politics. And how many resouces that machine had put into being prepared ...

We could talk about Democratic Mayor Nagin and his tear filled play for the Rudy Guiliani Award of 2005.

We could talk about how it is that a state and a city that face hurricanes every year had such a Charlie Foxtrat plan for dealing with one.

Clearly, since the LA. Governor, Lt-Governor, etc, both houses of the state legislature, half the federal congressional delegation, and even the mayor of N.O. are Democrats, whats actually happening is this: The Democrats are using Bush's low poll numbers to save themselves. Since they run LA., they're actually to blame for everything.

Their spin is to blame everything on Bush. That's why NYT had editorials bashing Bush out within 24 hrs of the storm. And that's why they've brought out everyone from Lautenburg to Jackson to rail at the administration.

And it just might yet work .... 06' is just around the corner ....

[Adam]

Most of the Baghdad Bob-esque Mayor Nagin quote about drugs:

"You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason they were breaking in hospitals and drug stores. They're looking for something to take the edge off their jones, if you will, and right now they don't have anything to take the edge off, and they've probably found guns, and what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wreaking havoc, and we don't have the resources to deal with it."

[joe]

"I mean, I understand (though disapprove of) the desire to suppress bad news, but who would think they could possibly succeed in this case?"

"And with thousands of news cameras all over the place?"

Probably somebody who watched the successful campaign to take the country to war, and the president's subsequent re-election campaign.

70% of Bush voters believed Saddam was involved in September 11 in a 2004 poll. Salt of the earth, backbone of the New West. You know, morons.

[joe]

mewsie raises a good point - although the lion's share of the blame for this travesty (both the failure to adequately fund flood prevention, and the incompetent administration of emergency relief efforts) on the Republicans who control the federal government, there is still plenty to lay at the doorstep of the conservative southern DLC-type Democrats who cooperate with them.

[Ammonium]

The FEMA guy didn't know basic facts that you could get by watching CNN. That indicates a total lack of communication between FEMA and officials on the scene. It certainly shows what a waste of money all this homeland security effort has been.

The biggest problem (aside from not evactuating) was that only 250 national guard were in New Orleans before this morning. That is probably the number who were in the Superdome when the hurricane hit. Why couldn't Louisiana get more than 250 national guard into New Orleans? Probably because they are incompetent and corrupt.

It took 4 days for the federal government to become proactive and take control of the relief from the state. Normally it would be best for the governor to have control of these things, but they need backup plans!!!

[joe]

You probably don't want the National Guard prepositioned in the path of the hurricaine. Hell of a lot of good they would do if they became refugees, and their equipment was all underwater.

[Ammonium]

Wednesday night people were able to steal a bus and get between Houston and New Orleans. The National Guard should have been staged somewhere safe and dispatched after the hurricane. If they were sent to Houston they could have been there long before this morning.

[joe]

"I actually think the security is pretty darn good. There's some really bad people out there that are causing some problems, and it seems to me that every time a bad person wants to scream of cause a problem, there's somebody there with a camera to stick it in their face."

It's the media's fault. The liberal media.

[Jesse Walker]

Wednesday night people were able to steal a bus and get between Houston and New Orleans.

If you're talking about this, the bus wasn't stolen -- it had been abandoned.

[Dynamist]

Do you imply, joe, that media never seeks and over-dramatizes a story?

Ammonium: What you learn on CNN is not always accurate. But you probably knew that...

[Tom Crick]

"While were using a huge national tragedy as yet another opportunity to bash Bu$h (becuase, really, that's all life is about these days) we might just extend the fun to talk about the Democratic machine that is (and has been for a long, long time) Louisiana politics.

Has anything legitimately negative happened during the Bush presidency?

...Can you be specific?

[Ammonium]

Jesse: You're right. I hadn't followed up on that story since Wednesday night when it sounded like the bus had been stolen.

Dynamist: If you had watched CNN or Fox or the blogs coming from New Orleans you would have known about the dire state of the convention center. That was beyond a rumor.

I just watched the state police chief explain why there have been delays getting out of state police working in New Orleans. You see, there are these state and federal regulations that normally prevent it...

I thought that Homeland Security was supposed to improve coordination. We may actually be worse off than we were before 9/11.

[Cliff]

I think Goebbels said something like, if you make your lies big enough and say them enough, the ordinary person will believe it.

[Eric II]

The first busload of New Orleans refugees to reach the Reliant Astrodome overnight was a group of people who commandeered a school bus in the city ravaged by Hurricane Katrina and drove to Houston looking for shelter.

As utterly tragic as all of this is, I can't help but laugh at this passage. Macabre humor, I suppose.

Serious question: How many other developed nations do all of you think would deal with a crisis of this magnitude this poorly? Would Japan? France? Sweden? Australia?. Or, shifting gears for a moment, do you think the situation would be just as ugly if it was, say, Boston or Seattle that had somehow been flooded to a similar degree?

With the caveat that I'm not entirely sure of the answers myself, I think these are questions worth asking, as unpleasant as the answers might end up being.

[Jadagul]

Unpleasant answers, perhaps, Eric, but they shouldn't be surprising to anyone from New Orleans. We really have third-world levels of bureaucratic incompetence and corruption down there; we manage to stay richer than South America purely through economic union with the rest of the US. Take that away, and we're just another lousy Latin American country with bad race relations and corrupt police.

[joe]

I'm implying, Dynamist, that the widespread perception that the government's response has been faulty has nothing to do with bias or overdramitization by the media.

[mewsifer]

Eric II -

Recall how France "dealt" with its summer heat wave a few years back. There are no firm numnbers available yet, but that death toll from that heat wave may possibly rival the one in this hurricane.

And Democrats here dream of the day we have a Govt like that of the French ....

Another point: I live in CA and someday we're goning to have the "Big One." If it happens in one of our big cities, we'll have the same problems they're having in N.O.

No matter what anyone says or does, it will take days before they can't get enough troops and supplies in to deal with the problem.

It takes a few days to alert, supply, and deploy 30-40k troops - particularly if you need them to provide supplies for a whole city as well as for themselves.

Even the 82nd Airborne's ready brigade is only on 24 hour standby and it's one of the fastest deploying units in the Army.

[mewsifer]

To which I add Joe's good point:

"You probably don't want the National Guard prepositioned in the path of the hurricaine. Hell of a lot of good they would do if they became refugees, and their equipment was all underwater"

Serious Question: Isn't time we started asking if the United States should have a 25 division army? I mean, views of Iraq aside, if as Democrats are trying to claim, you can't afford to deploy a force of 130k overseas for two years becuase you might not then have enough troops for a natural disaster at home like a hurricane, then you need a larger army.

*That* is a crticism of the Bush Administration even I'm willing to make.

[M1EK]

Dynamist, is there NOTHING you won't do for Bush? Good lord.

Sometimes, one of "both sides" is actually right, and the other is wrong. This is one of those times.

[Flyover Country]

M1EK,

Is there anything liberals won't blame on Bush?

Does the mayor of NO or the Governor bear any responsibility for the state of NO?

[joe]

mewsifer, I'm in. Fewer ships, stick with the old airplanes for a while longer, cancel the magical laser beams in the sky program, ditch the nuke program, and pay more guys with rifles.

Although 25 is a very high number - lets replace some of those infantry divisions with special forces companies.

[joe]

I don't blame the geography of New Orleans on Bush.

But cutting the flood control budget, putting political hacks in charge of FEMA, deploying a good portion of Louisiana and Mississippi's National Guard troops to Iraq - that's all on him and the Republican majority in Congress.

[Flyover Country]

joe,

Now answer my second question:

Do the mayor and governor bear any responsibility?

Why do you give them a pass?

[Flyover Country]

6:40 P.M. - WASHINGTON (AP): Sen. Mary Landrieu called Friday for President Bush to appoint a cabinet-level official to direct the federal response to the devastation along the Gulf Coast caused by Hurricane Katrina.

Landrieu, a Louisiana Democrat, said she asked Bush during his tour of New Orleans on Friday to act within 24 hours to put a single official in charge of the overall relief effort who would report directly to him.

"The suffering has gone on long enough," she said. "Now is the time for acti on."

Maybe it is time for the mayor, the governor, and the rest of the "leadership" of Louisiana to step down and let the federal government take over the whole state.

[Twen]

Ummm, exactly what do you think would have happened if Bush would have mobilized troops, declared martial law, sent in the seebee's, froze gas prices, released the national petro reserves, and taken control of the situation away from local and state authorites as soon as the storm turned into a cat five and headed for N.O.?

[Flyover Country]

After reading more statements from Democratic "leaders" in Louisiana, I now think that Bush was wrong in handling the disaster. As soon as Katrina turned toward New Orleans he should have done as Twen posted above. Nobody in Lousiana seems to want to take any responsibility for the situation. They criticize Bush, FEMA, but I don't hear a word about what they are doing about the situation.

[Dynamist]

M1EK: It doesn't help your growth if I just parrot joe's point of view. See my next sentence...

joe: I'm urging the blame, for whatever good it does, be spread widely. Nixon didn't get the levees strengthened, either. And the Great Society never included a better evacuation plan than what was in effect last weekend.

Flyover: Before Katrina closed 'em down, the New Orleans public schools were on the verge of being taken over by the State and Feds. Back before Huey got shot, Louisiana was plausibly close to taking over the USA. Wouldn't that have been nice...?

[Phil]

Nixon didn't get the levees strengthened, either. And the Great Society never included a better evacuation plan than what was in effect last weekend.

Next opportunity I have to travel backwards in time, I'll be sure to mention that to them.

[Phil]

Since Dynamist is still pounding the "They chose to stay" drum so hard, let's go to the tape. These are the people who should have just started walking, according to Dynamist. They paid taxes all their lives but couldn't even be given the courtesy of a fucking school bus or panel truck by their mayor or their governor. They chose to stay:

Story: My ill father and his 89 yr old mother are trapped at 37 fontainbleau. They need to be rescued, we have no way of contacting them and letting them know where we are. My mom is available at 1-404-636-3223 and my sister is ate 1-540-989-1395. Please help

Story: my parents names and address are"
gus and lia sparatore
935 nursery ave
metairie,la, 70005
need medical assistance and gasoline to get out of metairie.
they have high blood pressure and heart conditon. they both in their late 70's.
please help. i;m in texas and can't help.

Story: 150 people are apparantly stranded in the Park Plaza Hotel on Canal Street. Four elderly people are in critical condition. They're on the third floor.

Story: MY FAMILY IS IN THE CHARLES COLTON HIGH SCHOOL IN 2300 ST.CLAUDE ST. IN THE ORLEANS PARISH ( 9TH WARD) MY MOTHER HAS A BAD HEART AND SISTER IS 7 MONTHS PREGNANT THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE AND MANY SMALL KIDS THEY ARE OUT OF FOOD AND HEED HELP. IF YOU HAVE ANY INFO PLEASE EMAIL ME ALSO IF YOU CANT HELP PLEASE SEND THE WORD TO ANYONE WHO YOU THINK CAN.

The health care situation here has dramatically worsened overnight. Many people in the hotel are elderly and small children. Many other guests have
Have unusual diseases. They are unfortunately . 'We have better medical letter. There are ID physicians in at this hotel attending an HiV confection. We have commandered the world famous French Quarter Bar to turn into an makeshift clinic. There is a team of about 7 doctors and PA and pharmacists. We anticipate that this will be the major medical facility in the central business district and French Quarter.

Story: There is a gentleman by the name of Richard Shaw stranded in his home at 8220 Spruce.
He has diabetic relatives across the street at 8221 Spruce that also need help.

Story: Concerned about several elderly residents who as of Sunday 4:30am did not evacuate Holy Angels Apartments on 3500 St. Claude at the corner of Gallier St. May not be able to open the windows to signal for help.

Story: 90 yr old Civil Rights Leader and Commuinity Activist Virginia Collins and 10 others are trapped in an apt building at: 3522 Dante Street (off of Carrollton Ave).
PLEASE HELP RESCUE; SHE HAS ASTHMA AND A HEART CONDITION and IN NEED OF HER MEDS, FOOD AND WATER!!!! THEY ARE IN DIRE NEED OF HELP!! TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE!

THERE ARE ABOUT 40 ELDERLY & MENTALLY DISABLED CITIZENS TRAPPED IN AN APT COMPLEX AT 1226 S. CARROLLTON AVE . 90+ YEAR OLD FATHER OF A FRIEND HERE IN LAFAYETTE..NAME IS DELERY LANDRY HE IS IN APT 315..NO FOOD OR WATER & THEIR CAREGIVES LEFT THEM PRIOR TO STORM...THEY MAY NOT HAVE ENOUGH INSIGHT TO MAKE THEMSELVES NOTICEABLE TO RESCUERS...MATER DESOTO APTS NEXT TO CHURCH ON 1226 S CARROLLTON AVE. 10 RESIDENTS PER FLOOR..4 STORY BUILDING..PLEASE HELP THEM QUICKLY...DAUGHTERS NAME IS SUSAN LANDRY CHIQUELIN FROM LAFAYETTE SHE HAS LOST CONTACT WITH HIM A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO....ELDERLY & MENTALLY DISABLED RESIDENTS....

Hell, go read for yourself, and ruminate on the meanings of the words "mandatory evacuation," "emergency plan," and "choose."

[Taiko36]

I just read an article that states that while Bush was in LA, helicopter flights were banned hampering evacuation and supply efforts. Didn't say if the ban was over the entire state or just NOLA. Has anybody else heard this? I haven't heard this anywhere else.

[Eric II]

Recall how France "dealt" with its summer heat wave a few years back. There are no firm numnbers available yet, but that death toll from that heat wave may possibly rival the one in this hurricane.

You don't seriously think the two are comparable, do you? Particularly when the overwhelming majority of deaths from the heat wave involved the very elderly, and the crisis mostly happened because a large percentage of French residences don't have air conditioners installed. Unless you were going to forcibly move hundreds of thousands (millions?) of French senior citizens out of their non-air-conditioned homes and apartments and into other facilities, I don't see what you could've done.

[joe]

Flyover,

Only the federal government has the resources to handle a disaster of this magnitude. That's why FEMA was created, that's why they're in charge.

Dynamist, take it up with the Army Corps of Engineers. http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/01/hurricane-low/

http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/09/index.html#007565

[Flyover Country]

joe,

I'm not saying that the federal government has no role to play in a disaster, I'm saying that they are not the only players involved. You just keep pounding on Bush about the slow response. I just want to keep reminding you that the mayor and governor haven't exactly shone in this disaster.

[mewsifer]

"You don't seriously think the two are comparable, do you? Particularly when the overwhelming majority of deaths from the heat wave involved the very elderly, and the crisis mostly happened because a large percentage of French residences don't have air conditioners installed. Unless you were going to forcibly move hundreds of thousands (millions?) of French senior citizens out of their non-air-conditioned homes and apartments and into other facilities, I don't see what you could've done."

Actually I do think there are some grounds for comparison. Part of the problem was that a large portion of the govt., the doctors, and the public at large was gone on its summer holiday. So there was no one to care for the elderly who were often stuck at home as you say.

But the difficulty of moving 100's of thousands of people under the cicumstances they had should have been less than what we see in N.O. since at the very least, France wasn't underwater.

But France would be *very* challenged to mobilize much more than 20k troops for that kind of thing.
And where else would they get the manpower?

[Eric II]

Part of the problem was that a large portion of the govt., the doctors, and the public at large was gone on its summer holiday.

That brings to light an important difference: Hospital workers can mostly spend their vacation time as they see fit. Troops, on the other hand, have to show up.

But the difficulty of moving 100's of thousands of people under the cicumstances they had should have been less than what we see in N.O. since at the very least, France wasn't underwater.

I wasn't thinking of the technical feasibility of forcibly moving such a large number of people on account of the fact that a small percentage may die due to lack of access to an air conditioner. I was thinking of the political and (for many a limited-government advocate) moral feasibility of doing so.

[crimethink]

Only the federal government has the resources to handle a disaster of this magnitude. That's why FEMA was created, that's why they're in charge.

That is true of the cleanup and rebuilding loans, but seriously, the state and city had plenty of resources to bus the thousands of people who lined up at the Superdome and Convention Ctr, and possibly those who didn't, to a safer area. Had this happened, the federal bungling would only have endangered property and the lives of the foolish and/or criminal.

The state dropped the ball in the beginning, and the feds are too incompetent to bail them out. A pox on both their houses.

[Doc]

Brown's the fired lawyer for a horse group, no emergency experience just political connections and the ability to lie right into a camera.

[joe]

That's ok, I'm sure President Gore would have appointed an estate lawyer to direct FEMA.

And President Kerry would have been worse - he would have appointed a FRENCH horst lawyer.

There's one party that thinks it's important for the government to function well, there's one party that doesn't, and it fucking matters.

[Dynamist]

Phil: If you're that aware, you'll recognize that the Dome was to be refuge for the people you chose to highlight, those that truly couldn't get out. The space was taken up by people who could have but didn't.

I believe I said I didn't have time to argue outliers and exceptions. I've been reading the same kinds of things you posted, and am acquainted with people trapped. It's aggravating to see the able-bodied push the helpless out of the way. That behaviour has nothing to do with Nagin, Blanco, or Bush.

[Jon]

"But the difficulty of moving 100's of thousands of people under the cicumstances they had should have been less than what we see in N.O. since at the very least, France wasn't underwater."

On the other hand, heat waves aren't as conveniently centralized the way a storm is. Which means far more people would potentially be at risk. What would they do, evacuate the whole country to Finland?

Anyway, it's not like the US hasn't had similar cases = the 1995 Chicago heatwave racked up hundreds of dead in just one city.

[Dynamist]

For Phil and anyone else who wants to read an echo of my view from a more "trustworthy" source: Goto comment 15280 here.

[Yvonne]

Whoever posted the story about Richard Shaw stranded on Spruce Street, please e-mail me. I know who he is, and may be able to help him and his pets.