De-funding PBS From Coast to Coast

Like Flava Flav to Nick Gillespie's Chuck D, I'll be on St. Louis' KMOX 1120 AM today at 3:10 local time, talking to Paul Harris about de-funding PBS.

Comments

[Chuck]

Flava Flav was a clown. You ain't got to disrespect yo'self that way, Welchie.

I see you more as DMC to Gillespie's DJ Run.

[nobody]

Ugh, they've been talking about defunding PBS on 90.3 WCPN (Cleveland Public Radio) for the past week or so. Their conclusion seems to be that the status quo is just fine and dandy, and any talk about reducing or eliminating funding amounts to "politicization" of the discussion.

[Twba]

I have fond memories of fiddling with a little radio until I found KMOX so I could listen to Jack Buck call Cardinals games. After dark that blowtorch signal reaches far. Oh, my brother took our mother to the Cardinals game this afternoon. Cards are down 4 runs as I type this.

[A's fan]

Down 4 runs, huh? Mulder must be pitching.

[Jon H]

Hey, you've even got a European squeeze, just like Flava Flav.

Yours, however, isn't a terrifying and wrinkled oversized Dane.

[joe]

I don't know, Matt. Do you know what time it is?

nobody, You have to keep in mind, the latest push from the administration to lean on PBS and threaten defunding isn't about small government ideals - it's a transparent threat to bully them into running the message the Republicans want. Some asshat from the American Spectator was on the NewsHour last night, and he didn't say word one about the philosophical questions surrounding having a public tv network. He just kept making assertions about biased programming, and pointing out that George Bush is a popular president who won an election, and PBS is horribly biased because they allow people to criticize him on the air.

[duncan]

I just got out of a meeting where I doodled "Cold Lampin'" on my notepad.

Coincidence?

[Twba]

You have to keep in mind, the latest push from the administration to lean on PBS and threaten defunding isn't about small government ideals - it's a transparent threat to bully them into running the message the Republicans want

Joe, you have just stumbled upon the best reason for PBS to be freed from the asshats in Congress.

[Jon H]

Twba writes: "Joe, you have just stumbled upon the best reason for PBS to be freed from the asshats in Congress."

They'd probably still get hassled via the leverage of the FCC.

[joe]

Twba, the humiliating ass kicking that's about to unfold is the best reason why I am not worried about Congress being able to manipulate PBS.

[isildur]

Get up, get-get-get down
NPR's a joke in your town

[smacky]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeahh boyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[joe]

I said, do you know what time it is?

[Flustered News Reporter]

Quick! While Matt's away we can hijack his post!

In other breaking news....

[thoreau]

joe-

You have argued in the past that PBS and NPR got along just fine for decades without government micromanagement and attempts to impose a partisan bias (real or imagined). So the current situation is just a manufactured crisis and not a legitimate problem necessitating privatization.

If so, let me ask you this:

1) Is the purpose of this manufactured crisis to privatize PBS and NPR? Do you really think they'll push for that? Or do you think they'll instead just push for more executive branch control over content?

I'm not asking whether they'll succeed at either of those goals. I'm asking which of those things will they attempt?

2) If I understand correctly, CPB is currently getting more than 90% of its revenue from private donations and licensing fees (e.g. Sesame Street characters), and could continue to maintain its current format (undeniably popular with a significant niche) without public funds. What is the best argument in favor of forgoing that situation and maintaining the status quo?

To the libertoids: Yes, I know, you have very good moral and philosophical reasons why all of these issues are moot and the whole thing should just be privatized, end of story. Fine. I'm trying to engage somebody with a different perspective and see what common ground we can find.

[Shem]

So does this mean Matt has metal teeth?

[Jon H]

thoreau writes: "What is the best argument in favor of forgoing that situation and maintaining the status quo?"

There might be an argument for public funds going to support stations in smaller markets, with less public money going to the big-market stations.

I'm just speculating, though.

[drf]

Jon H:

as somebody who was mixed up with a (non wrinkled, non terrifying, non oversized) Dane for seven years or so, Matt is doing alright.

TWBA: loved the cards as a kid, too. WWWE played the tribe. when they weren't on, WGN had the cubbies (for road games) and KMOX had the rest.

🙂 gotta love baseball on the radio!!!

Nobody: what part of Cleveburg you from? I grew up right near where 87 meets Falls road... screw the steelers.

cheers,
drf
(red and gray... red and gray)

[Don Mynack]

Defunding NPR: More Rock, Less Talk.

[joe]

thoreau,

1) I'm pretty certain the threats to defund are a game of chicken, with the goal being to cow PBS and affiliates into running more Republican propaganda.

2)"What is the best argument in favor of forgoing that situation and maintaining the status quo?" That additional 10%, which amounts to several million dollars.

[Jon H]

"I'm pretty certain the threats to defund are a game of chicken, with the goal being to cow PBS and affiliates into running more Republican propaganda."

And they want to keep PBS from brodcasting complaints from liberals like Chuck Hagel.

[thoreau]

joe-

Fair enough. But isn't the game of chicken the best argument in favor of hitting up the donors a little more, doing an extra pledge drive, and releasing an updated Cookie Monster doll for licensing fees?

[Phil]

Ah, WCPN. I interned there when I was getting my BA, in their news department. Got a lot of practical experience -- they had little problem with throwing an intern with a tape recorder into a news op with the governor, and expecting him (the intern, not the governor) to gather tape and script/produce a 2:00 feature for the 5:00 news.

[joe]

thoreau,

For whatever reason, the status quo allows PBS to operate in a different manner from commercial television, and offer a different product. Libertarians like to point to the History Channel and the Biography Channel as examples of "PBS-like" channels that don't rely on public funding, but look at how they've changed over the years. Now we've got R. Lee Emrey yelling at the maggots about artillery pieces, and the bony starlet of the moment getting all the airtime on Biography.

Some people say "that's just responding to consumer demand," except that PBS gets much higher ratings than any of them. So they're obviously filling a large, unfilled market niche on their own.

Look at the difference between public parks and amusement parks. That's the difference between PBS and commercial teevee. You just know that if a public park was privatized, no matter how popular it was just the way it is, some genius would end up filling it with flashing neon and roller coasters. And everyone would miss having an actual park, with just benches, trees, and swings. There's something about market dynamics that drive for more more more, and can't let well enough alone.

If PBS was completely private, it would start out exactly the same as it is now, and would be profitable, and then some genius would decide he could squeeze just a little more out of it if Frontline ran an expose on law students who worked as strippers, and we'd end up with R. Lee Ermey yelling at us about war toys, and the hallowed, glorious market would end up trashing the monumentally successful institution that's been built up over the decades.

[Twba]

Right Joe. Nation magazine had to resort to those crazy ivy league stripper stories to stay in business.

[Twba]

Tickle-me Elmo would be joined by Lap-dance Elmo.

[R C Dean]

I'm pretty certain the threats to defund are a game of chicken, with the goal being to cow PBS and affiliates into running more Republican propaganda

Sounds like a damn good reason to support defunding, in fact and not in threat, to remove the possibility that any administration can use PBS as a propaganda tool.

Uh, joe, I hate to break it to you, but this country is full of private parks. There are dozens in NYC alone, most owned by neighborhood associations. With nothing but benches and trees. Nice try, though.

[thoreau]

joe-

What about turning it over to a non-profit trust or foundation or something? In the charitable realm there are some long-standing non-profits that have remained true to their mission over the years:

Salvation Army still provides shelter for the homeless, and hasn't branched out into luxury condos.

Red Cross still provides disaster relief, and hasn't converted its clinics into cosmetic surgery centers.

Also, I do agree with your comment about how some idiot would eventually turn PBS into just another station if it were made into a regular commercial station. However, one could argue that if you leave a media outlet in the government's hands for long enough then eventually some idiot will come along and try to use it for propaganda. (Some would argue that it happened long ago, others that it's happening now, but all can agree that the Pandora's box is now open.)

Of course, one could observe that there are plenty of non-profits that become corrupted. (Some might even argue that the ones I cited have been corrupted. Lacking enough info I will not comment on that.)

Hmm, maybe gaius marius is right, and all institutions are doomed to wither and pander in the end, just like our civilization.

If so, if PBS is doomed to collapse (and it's all Nietzsche's fault! 🙂 then can we at least make sure that it collapses in a cost-effective manner?

[Steve]

joe,

You'd be much more persuasive if I didn't think you were somehow slighting R. Lee Ermey and his contributions to our culture. I have nothing against Bill Moyers (I'd have to watch his show to have something against him), but I'd take R. Lee Ermey any day. In fact, Ermey would really spice up "NewHour with Jim Lehrer," which I do watch, when I can stay awake through it. Maggot!

[dhex]

pbs already has its version of r. lee ermey yelling at people (which, mind you, is great television in and of itself) in the many millions of versions of antiques roadshow and those creepy, gaydar destroying wonder twins.

[joe]

Putting out a low-circulation magazine is a lot cheaper than operating a nationwide network of stations and a national company as well, twba.

RC, private parks in NYC are covered by deed restrictions. I can't even begin to imagine how one would draw up equivalent standards for television and radio programming.

[joe]

Steve,

Let Ermey be Ermey. Let Lehrer be Lehrer. Let Buckley be Buckley.

[Twba]

Matt, you kicked ass compared to the PBS suit who followed.

Joe: I can't even begin to imagine how one would draw up equivalent standards for television and radio programming.

Don't play stupid, Joe. You are smart enough to figure it out.

[Mo]

joe,
I'm with Steve. Ermey is at least informative and teaches you about the history of things like artillery and amphbious vehicles. Your point would be better made by Modern Marvels, which used to be really interesting like the history of automatic weapons, zeppelins and suspension bridges and now has turned into hour long infomercials like Modern Marvels - Jello Pudding Pops.

"H is for Hydrox, that's good enough for me!"

[Mo]

Oh and don't get me started on the conspiracy theory shows they occaionally air like "Biblical Evidence of Aliens" (not made up, apparently the column of fire that Moses followed was a UFO).

[joe]

Thank you, Twba, but it's not a question of smarts. A "passive park" is an understood term, and is differentiated from a "playground" or "amusement park." You just have to require the park to remain a "passive park," and maybe throw in some language about "benches," "trees," "rides," "advertising," etc.

Now, how do you objectively differentiate between highminded public service television and commercial television? And yet the difference is very clear to everyone who doesn't actively play dumb. Clifford the Big Red Dog isn't GI Joe, and yet, how would you differentiate one from the other in writing? Anything you do manage to bang out would be so restrictive, so tailored to define what is already in place as the right model, that you'd lose the innovation and creativity that have been the hallmarks of public television.

[joe]

"Modern Marvels - Jello Pudding Pops"

ROTFLMAO!!!

[thoreau]

Mo-

Don't be hating the pudding pops. There's always room for jello!

[Swede]

Joe,

It seems that you have no faith at all in your fellow humans and their problem solving abilities! Let's stick with your PBS/public parks analogy for a second. If all public parks were to be privatized, you are surely not the only individual who would be concerned with the parks becoming "ruined." So, you and all of these other individuals can either whine about it and do nothing, or you can organize, buy up a park, keep it in whatever state that you all consider optimal and pure, and pay your maintenance and purchasing costs by raising funds through a mix of charitable donations and free market (though non-profit, if you prefer) endeavors. In other words (to bring the analogy full circle), you would be doing what PBS does now for the majority of its funding. By getting rid of the government subsidy, you and likeminded individuals would be able to run the park (or the broadcasting system) as you see fit without forcing the rest of us to pay for something that you enjoy that we might not (and yes, joe, I am taking issue with your assertion that "everybody would miss having an actual park with just benches, trees, and swings." That is an unsupportable generalization).

So, there is your free market solution; it really is not that difficult. Individuals do it all the time. Believe in others, joe! 🙂

[Jon H]

If cuts are absolutely necessary, I'd rather they all hit PBS, with public radio getting left alone, or even a boost. Radio money ought to go farther, anyway.

PBS already leans towards infomercials, aging hippy nostalgia, and antique roadshow pablum.

[thoreau]

Since this is the closest that we've got to an intellectual thread today, I'd like to post a question that will be appearing on the final exam I'm giving tomorrow night:

12. The coherence theory of polarization is (2 points)
a. Something that I figured out on my own while making lecture notes, but some other guy
actually thinks it will be his claim to fame.
b. Something that I never really explained in class but am putting on the test anyway.
c. Something that involves way too much math.
d. All of the above.

Most of the exam is free response, but I always include a few multiple choice questions, and I make sure that one of them is a fun question.

[duncan]

And this is why i keep coming back to hit and run.

Flava Flav, R. Lee Ermey, pudding pops, and Actual Discussion on a topic all in one comments section.

[Shawn Smith]

Mo,

Here, here, on the crap Nostradamus shows, crap ghost story shows, and anything else that would bring out David W. to tell us that we don't really know and shouldn't discount these "theories."

What the heck happened to the Discovery Channel? now it's all Monster Bike/Garage/House/Toilet or Incredibly unlikely event is going to destroy the planet in less than 20 years shows.

[Steve]

I would watch pretty much anything with R. Lee Ermey, even if he was hosting "Antiques Roadshow."

[Anvilwyrm]

Let Ermey be Ermey. Let Lehrer be Lehrer. Let Buckley be Buckley.

...and don't make me pay for any of them.

[kevrob]

I'm with Thomas Jefferson: To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical. To the extent that PBS, or NPR for that matter, receive funds or in-kind subsidies from federal, state or local government, I see their continued existence as a violation of the First Amendment. They and the CPB were chartered by Congress, right? I seem to remember a little something about "Congress shall make no law..."

Here's what I'd do. Cancel all broadcast licenses given to units of governments, such as state broadcasting organizations, state universities, etc. Reorganize those stations as independent non-profits, with boards of directors representing the viewer-listener/contributors. Leave any stations in the hands of private schools alone. Cut CPB, NPR and PBS loose from government oversight, and zero out their tax-funding. There may be a temporary disruption of service in some markets, but when things settle down, the stations' viewers, listeners and underwriters will provide enough money to provide their normal services. If they can't raise the dough voluntarily, they don't deserve it.

As for parks, some of the many of the Milwaukee parks used to be privately owned beer gardens. Government meddling - notably alcohol prohibition - and the hardship of paying property taxes during the Depression resulted in the breweries and other owners selling the land. There's more than one model to give the people fresh air and gem?tlichkeit.

Kevin

[6Gun]

Some asshat from the American Spectator was on the NewsHour last night

Ah, more asshats.

[Ruthless]

thoreau,
a. Some people have good reading comprehension yet keep their comments spare.
b. Others are vice versa.
c. Some are even adverse to vice.
d. Should "c" be ethnic cleansed?

From your test:
"a. Something that I figured out on my own while making lecture notes, but some other guy
actually thinks it will be his claim to fame."

Delete the "it."

The correct answer to yours is
d. All the above. Right?

[nobody]

Sorry, I'm a bit late in rejoining the party...

Joe: You have a good point - the latest talk about defunding CPB has less to do with some sort of principled argument opposing public funding of news stations, and more to do with an attempt at bullying the stations into carrying more "conservative" programming. Still, whether you're pro or anti public funding, it's still a political argument. If we lived in an alternate universe where CPB received no public funds, and liberals were agitating for public funds equal in amount to today's public funds, it'd be exactly the same situation, just with a change in the status quo.

And speaking of status quo bias: I hate how these things are always framed as if the present amount of funding represents The Ideal State of Public Radio Funding, where any expansion of public funding is necessarily good, and any reduction is necessarily bad.

drf: I've lived in Lakewood, Cleveland, Cleveland Heights, Kent, Columbus, Akron, Hudson, and Streetsboro (I moved to OH about 10 years ago from the Chicago area).

[Karl]

""Some asshat from the American Spectator was on the NewsHour last night"

Ah, more asshats."

One can never have too many Asshats. Keep you cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

[Lazlo]

Your point would be better made by Modern Marvels, which used to be really interesting like the history of automatic weapons, zeppelins and suspension bridges and now has turned into hour long infomercials like Modern Marvels - Jello Pudding Pops.

Interspersed with occasional installments of the Engineering Disasters series...be fair!

[phocion]

I want to take this opportunity to publicly thank Mr. Lazlo Nibble for running the Kraftwerk, Orb, and Orbital mailing lists, all of which gave me great enjoyment throughout the 90's and beyond.

Surely Lazlo must have required federal funding to run lists dedicated to these unique artists who have but niche followings in America. After all, the defenders of PBS funding constantly tell us that such entities can't survive on their own, as they get crowded out by loud, boorish, commercial outlets that cater to the ignorance and lust for sensationalism so prevalent in our society. Without this funding I surely would have been forced onto a Britney Spears list by now. I hope your FY '06 appropriations are looking good, Lazlo!

[Happy Jack]

"What is the best argument in favor of forgoing that situation and maintaining the status quo?" That additional 10%, which amounts to several million dollars.

That 10% wouldn't be needed if they eliminated redundancy in stations. I get to watch Frontline on my choice of three stations, and I'm not in a large metro area.

[Soda]

If I understand correctly, CPB is currently getting more than 90% of its revenue from private donations and licensing fees (e.g. Sesame Street characters)

Is this true?

From the table I found here* it looks more like a 55%/44% private/public revenue split for the CPB. So the majority of the money comes from private donations, but not 90%.

Still, as most of you here I'm confident the best of PBS and NPR would survive on its own in the free market.

*I split private and public like so: Private (Membership, Business, Foundations, All Others, Auctions), Public (the remaining rows).

[thoreau]

Soda-

Thank-you for clarifying. I have much to think about.

[joe]

"Interspersed with occasional installments of the Engineering Disasters series...be fair!"

And reruns of British murder documentaries from the 70s. What's up with that?

Now, as to the theory "PBS needs to be privatized or it will be politicized," I've got a question: do you think, if they were privatized, they could achieve the level of hallowed elevation from politics that defines 60 Minutes and Fox News?

The government-funded network is the least politicized, most objective news source on tv. The reason why is that it IS government-supported, and has built into its structure a number of firewalls from political interference, as well as the institutional strength to push back against political interference when it is attempted, far better than any of the private networks. And what's more, it has these features specifically because of its status.

[drf]

Hi Nobody!

we've done the opposite...

(i grew up in Chagrin and moved to Chicago a few years ago)

karl - plus asshats are important, because lots of them are in need of that extra mehair that often gets sported on the posterior... quite a market there...

cheers,
drf

[Your Old High School Latin Ins]

Let Ermey be Ermey. Let Lehrer be Lehrer. Let Buckley be Buckley.

Nice use of tricolon, Cicero!

MMMMM....asshats.

[6Gun]

The government-funded network is the least politicized, most objective news source on tv. The reason why is that it IS government-supported, and has built into its structure a number of firewalls from political interference, as well as the institutional strength to push back against political interference when it is attempted, far better than any of the private networks. And what's more, it has these features specifically because of its status.

Gawd, more proof by assertion. Come on joe, don't expect said "firewalls" to survive beyond your rhetoric. Public broadcasting, as obviously with absolutely all expression, constitutes the message deemed most appropriate by it's writer at any given time.

Which naturally leaves that message up to some originating subjective call regarding "public good" (itself the latest rhetorical corruption of self-government designed by those who would take your freedoms.)

We can argue the subjective minutiae all day long, and frequently do, but eventually we need to confront the fact that better minds than ours settled govoernment's role some hundreds of years ago, and as a policy, they obviously didn't intend to abide government journalism. I suspect they had ample reason.

[Chinaman]

It seems a bit disingenuous to me that the current administration bitches about the paltry amount of money spent on CPB when it has demonstrated a seemingly intractable willingness to hand out MY money to any Tom, Dick, or Mary who asks for it. I'm not sure who the bigger pussies are these days, Republicans or Democrats.