Another joke doesn't pan out

"No one with government funds to dispense has done more to bring jazz to American audiences than Dana Gioia, chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts," begins Nat Hentoff, in this Wall Street Journal column.

I was going to say you could leave out the "with government funds to dispense" part because when people are given a choice they don't choose jazz, but what do you know: Sales of jazz music have been on the rise lately. Admittedly, jazz sales are up the way flag burnings are down, but still… Rock on, jazz fans, whoever you are.

Jim Henley sang an ode to Gioia last year, and Kerry Howley ran afoul of critic Stanley Crouch the year before that. Back when Ken Burns' miniseries Jazz was bebopping a nation to sleep, Chuck Freund blew hot riffs.

Comments

[Ayn_Randian]

Ugh. Jazz is boring, self-indulgent crap where a barry sax player gets like, 6 solos a song and everyone thinks they're so "special" because they each to improve for eight hours. Please, spare me all this "American art form" foolishness: I'll take Zeppelin any day.

[Ayn_Randian]

that should be "each get to improv". MUST PREVIEW!

[Steve]

Right. Led Zeppelin never had boring, self-indulgent solos.

And I like Zeppelin. And jazz.

[JSM]

Ayn, smoke a certain medical grade herb that affects interstate commerce and jazz improv will make more sense and feel much more groovy. I dig real good jazz, not that Kenny G shit, just the good stuff, Miles Davis, Coltrane, Joey D, Jay Roberts, etc.

[Julian Sanchez]

I was about to call both of you philistines. Then I remembered that Cavanaugh once headlined a blog post linking something I'd written about homeland security with the first line of "Tristan und Isolde," which beats the hell out of my periodic indie rock references on the abstruse/erudite front. Of course, that opens him to the observation that if you're gonna use album sales as a proxy for quality, I'm pretty sure that in any given year, "Kind of Blue" moved more copies than "Parsifal."

[Todd Fletcher]

Sturgeon's Law applies as well to jazz as anywhere else. But what's good is mighty good indeed.

[GILMORE]

Is the 'reason' angle here that Jazz, being commercially a backwater art form, is somehow less valid or worthy of attention or concern?

I dont get it. Anyone who knows piddly about music knows that most modern music stems from jazz/blues forms. It's just musical history lessons, really. Is that something to be pissed off about?

JG

[Jesse Walker]

Is the 'reason' angle here that Jazz, being commercially a backwater art form, is somehow less valid or worthy of attention or concern?

I'm not sure how you could read that into what Tim wrote. Such an argument couldn't really be the Reason angle on anything, given that markets offer thousands of niches for minority tastes. Congress works by majority vote; the marketplace doesn't.

[Dogzilla]

Jazz is what people did while they waited for rock & roll to be invented. Even Sal Paradise was not immune.

[David]

Actually, J. S. Bach was the jazz-musician of his day, supposedly able to improvise multi-part fugues at the drop of a hat (or powdered wig).

While lots of jazz is boring, self-indulgent crap, the same can be said about every genre. Lots of jazz is also very tight, very well constructed, very restrained.

And Kenny G. is not jazz. Just sayin'.

David
AgnostoLibertarianTechnoGeek
http://ddhead.blogspot.com
[e-mail]

P.S. Rush rules (no, not Limbaugh)

[thoreau]

markets offer thousands of niches for minority tastes. Congress works by majority vote; the marketplace doesn't.

Except omnibus spending bills. Those have something for everybody!

[Steve]

I'd have to say rock is as dead as jazz is if I use the arguements above. theres still some great jazz being made, as there is great rock being made. don't expect to find it on the radio or tv though(at least not the mainstream radio stations).

all in all, they're both dead, and hip-hop is at its peak right now. the sad thing is, theres no new music forms on the horizon. which is good, maybe the death of the record industry will be the next greatest thing to happen to music.

[Jim Walsh]

I dig real good jazz, not that Kenny G shit, just the good stuff, Miles Davis, Coltrane...

I'm into hard bop myself. Kind Of Blue is a masterpiece, jazz for rock fans (it was a major influence on folks like Duane Allman). In that light I also recommend Oliver Nelson's The Blues And The Abstract Truth...

[Phil]

I recently got a Sirius radio receiver installed in my car, and the first three stations I have saved as presets are: 1) First Wave (classic New Wave/pop); 2) Left of Center (modern college radio-ready stuff), 3) Jazz Standards. I didn't even particularly get into jazz until maybe 3-4 years ago; now it consumes easily a third of my listening time.

[mccleary]

I suggest that once a week, regardless of the libertarian connection, Hit And Run posts something on:

1) Rush/Led Zeppelin
2) Speed/death metal/Sabbath
3) New Wave/Punk/indie
4) Jazz/blues

It will provide a forum for libertarians to remind us how good 2112/Metallica/the Ramones/Miles Davis is.

[Lowdog]

Steve, you are trippin'. There's a tonne of crappy hip-hop, and still plenty of good rock (Queens of the Stone Age, Kasabian). Also, electronic music, while thankfully keeping a low profile, is huge. On BBC radio 1, for instance, there are 21 channels of "dance", only beaten by "Pop" with 25. "Rock & Alt" has 20. Not that the BBC is a perfect barometer of what's good or popular, but it's somewhat informative.

The fact of the matter is that different genres have cycles of relative goodness and suckiness. I personally hear a lot of good hip-hop, good new electronic/trip-hoppy stuff like Gorillaz and new good rock (I already mentioned 2 bands above).

Anyway, as I said: "You are trippin'".

[Xboy]

What's killing jazz is the pompous insistence that it is "America's classical music."
Think of the Modern Jazz Quartet dolled up in white tie and tails to show that a jazz concert was just as serious as a classical recital (and just as dull).
Think of Bird and Dizzy touring the South and laughing at the kids who requested something to dance to.
Think of Miles Davis scowling at anybody who dared to talk while the music was playing.
The songs jazzers call "standards" are simply the most popular songs of the first half of the twentieth century, before the musicians got too self-important to care what their audience wanted to hear.
The only way to bring jazz back is for some artist to dare to become an entertainer. I'm not holding my breath.

[David T]

"The only way to bring jazz back is for some artist to dare to become an entertainer. I'm not holding my breath."

Plenty of "traditional" (pre-bop) artists were as serious in their demeanor as John Lewis. Teddy Wilson, for example.

And plenty of "modernists" have been entertainers--Dizzy Gillespie was not exactly averse to clowning around. (Ever hear his "You Stole My Wife, You Horse Thief?")

The truth is that genuine jazz always has been and probably always will be a minority taste. Even the Swing Era was not really an exception--the swing bands had do to a lot of novelty stuff to be able to afford to do their jazz. (I'm quite sure that "A Tisket A Tasket" sold a lot better for Chick Webb than "Go Harlem.") Yes, a few indisputable jazz masterpieces were big sellers, most notably Coleman Hawkins' "Body and Soul", but they were very much the exception.

FWIW, I do not think that there has been any decline in the quality of jazz over the past couple of decades. On the contrary, Joe Lovano, for example, can in my opinion stand with the greatest past masters of the tenor sax. (His "From the Soul" is on my desert island list, and many of his more recent CDs are almost as good.)

[Jeff]

Not to downplay McCleary's excellent suggestion, but I'd like to bring up the subject of progressive rock, or "prog" as it's called these days. This "scene" (for lack of a better word) has had a noticable resurgence lately, primarily due to bands releasing their own CDs, small labels handing the distribution, a number of annual festivals, and impressive usage of the internet (including free MP3s) and word of mouth promotion. Aside from incorperating equal parts of jazz and metal in the bands that fall under thos catagory, it should be noted that it manages to thrive without near-zero airplay. Even the satellite radio stations stick to the traditional Rush/Tull/Yes/ELP playlist.

I view most Jazz the way I view professional sports: it looks fun to play, but there is no reason for the government to be funding it.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Even the satellite radio stations stick to the traditional Rush/Tull/Yes/ELP playlist.

There's something sad in the way Rush seems to have no fans around Reason. (At least none who've ever admitted it to me.) But I guess it's proof that we're not blinded by ideology.

[Eric the .5b]

I kinda like Rush. "Free Will" is a fun song.

[Kris]

David T,

Do you live in the SF bay area and/or listen to "(commercial free) KCSM out of San Mateo?

Great station, though during a pledge drive I'll hear them whine about having the public tit pulled away from their mouth, even though they have some decent sized corporate sponsors(paid advertisement ie (commercials), See's Candy among others, and they claim over 70% of their operating budget comes from listeners like you. In any case it seems they'd do fine without stealing any tax payer mony(the majority of whom clearly don't like jazz and certainly wouldn't pay to hear it, let alone subsidize it the few who do want to hear it)
That said I am a pretty big jazz fan and have little doubt they can survive as is, and if not, tough shit.

[Kris]

BTW, For any jazz lovin' reasonoids KCSM. is as about as good as you can get as far as radio stations go.

[Jeff]

Oh, I am quite the Rush fan. Seen 'em live over 50 times. Have all the rare import discs. A small poster for Grace Under Pressure looms over me as I type this.

[s.m. koppelman]

Indeed, there was something very Ayn Rand-esque about Alex Lifeson (nee Zivojinovic) and son's brawl with cops at a Naples, Florida Ritz Carlton. The mix of conspicuous wealth, rejection of government authority, devil-may-care consumption, etc.

[bwanadik]

Hip hop may be at its commercial peak right now. Artistic peak? Uh, no (though, like everything, there's good stuff if you look for it).

Electronic dance music is, I think, undergoing a bit of a renaissance in the wake dying commercially after years of being saturated with cheesy trance tosh. And yeah, the BBC gives it more airtime than anybody (Breezeblock, Annie Nightingale, Blue Room, The Residency..). Huzzah for public service broadcasting! 😉

There's lots of interesting cross-polination going on, but I think Steve's right, no real Next Big Thing. Maybe popular music is doomed to repeat itself from here to eternity. Or maybe some kid in his basement just hit on a revolutionary new sound..

[Rodney]

My thoughts on the matter (in easy-to-read blog form)

http://www.rodneyanonymous.com/archives/00000010.htm

"I hate Jazz" is starting to have the shock value that "Hail Satan" had in the 70's.

[Chris]

I have a question: is the "white jazz conspiracy" than Stanley Crouch describes in cahoots with the "secret designers who make the secret designs" for the military? Also, I just decided that if I ever start a rock band, it will be called the White Jazz Conspiracy.

[Number 6]

Tim-Sorry, but I'm also a raving Rush fan. I've seen them twice, the second time with my father. He introduced me to libertarianism, and I returned the favor by introducing him to Rush. A little off the subject, but after the show, I asked my dad what he thought of Peart's drumming. His response was, "I've never seen anything like that, and I've seen Buddy Rich." So there...we're back to jazz. And yes, I love hard bop, despite its occasional pretentiousness.

[Number 6]

Kris-I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and presume that you didn't actually mean to link to one of those pop-up laden search sites.

[ed]

Well, jazz is certainly more intellectually demanding than hip hop or other pop forms. You either get it or you don't.

[Rick]

I'm appalled by these cavalier dismissals of jazz.
Philistines!

Struggling here may be futile...but do I go around insulting your crappy taste in...oh, yeah, I do sometimes.

Carry on.

[Kris]

Sorry about the bad link, I'm new at this html stuff, just go to kcsm.org and click on "listen"

[GILMORE]

"I'm not sure how you could read that into what Tim wrote."

I didnt. I still dont see what the point of the post is/was. I was just hoping for clarification.

I am not being contentious... I just am curious if the 'Reason' angle here is that things like the NEA or publically funded arts are a big waste of time? 'Subsidized' art is a bad thing?

JG

[lincoln]

There's something sad in the way Rush seems to have no fans around Reason.

Maybe it's because of her vocals. She could well be the best bassist ever on an extremely popular band, so why not use some of that loot and get a leader singer with testicles?

there is great rock being made

fuck yeah

[kevrob]

GILMORE:

Yeah, libertarian theory has it that government-subsidized expression of any type is suspect. As an L. I'm against the govt. running and/or funding schools, universities, churches, newspapers, radio, TV, book and magazine publishers, museums, political campaigns - any and all kinds of speech and press. These activities need to stay unentangled from the state, so that particular viewpoints not become favored, and so that individuals don't have to pay for messages with which they disagree. They are properly the responsibility of either the free market and/or the private non-profit sectors.

A century ago the suggestion that a music dubbed "jazz" because it was played in brothels should be paid for out of the public purse would have horrified. Now some of its performers and afficianados seem to think that they have a right to some sort of subsidy. I like jazz (for some values of jazz), even if I'm not a rabid fan. If it can't cut it commercially, and is doomed to be a museum genre, then charitable groups should raise money to preserve it as part of the national heritage, as has been done with orchestral and operatic music in the European tradition. I'm no Kenny G. fan, but purists of any style will scoff at the popular purveyors of the watered-down stuff, while they search out the most authentic, most challenging, or most innovative sounds.

Kevin

[GILMORE]

Kevin, thanks

Thats clearer.

I figured as much, but it wasnt apparent to me what exactly the joke was that tim thought was supposed to be funny.

Maybe why im confused about this is because Jazz still makes plenty $ in clubs here in NY, still has 1-2 great radio stations devoted to it, plenty of kids play it in schools...its basically ubiquitous. The lincoln center thing is really just money leaked out from...lincoln center I guess...which is funded to the gills by private money anyway.

Is there a school of 'civil' libertarians, whose principal issue is protection of the individual from the state... but doesnt get all pissy about, say, state funding of public libraries or something?

I mean... schools, i see... and other things. But it seems silly to rail against some things that have generally worked quite well in society, sans govt 'favoritism'.

JG

[Steve]

Lowdog - your mention of two rock bands are two bands I use to prove that rock is dead. funny how that works.

Electronica still isn't there yet. Sure its big in the UK, and I myself am a fan of whats currently out there, but it is nowhere near where rock and jazz were in their heyday.

hip-hop is most definitely at its peak, both commercially and artisticly. Its in its second wave. All the great hip-hop artists (and seriously, I'm not taking gangsta rap into consideration because I don't consider it hip-hop) now are doing the "old school" thing. they're perfecting it, hip-hop, the whole sound, rhythms and rhyme. It's not what you hear on the radio(though nowadays none of the good music is on the radio, so thats no longer an arguement).

The good hip-hop also has some amazing DJ's (the kind that actually mix and scratch). Check out Brainfreeze by Cut Chemist (of Jurassic 5 fame) and DJ Shadow. Its an amazing cd that will challenge you as much as Kind of Blue did for Jazz, not the perfect record, but close enough to make people think.