Cry Baby Kerry

Consider the source--a hardcore right-wing, pro-GOP site--but here's a story that paints John F. Kerry as, well, a big loser. Talon News is reporting this account of Kerry's comments at a Boston breakfast on MLK day:

Kerry commented that "thousands of people were suppressed in the effort to vote" in the 2004 presidential election.

"Voting machines were distributed in uneven ways," Kerry maintained. "In Democratic districts, it took people four, five, eleven hours to vote, while Republicans [went] through in 10 minutes -- same voting machines, same process, our America."

Upset that so many voters had their names removed from voter lists and were not allowed to cast a ballot on Election Day, Kerry said it is ironic that Bush is attempting to spread democracy in Iraq when democracy does not exist in the United States.

"In a nation which is willing to spend several hundred million dollars in Iraq to bring them democracy, we cannot tolerate that too many people here in America were denied that democracy," Kerry concluded.

Whole thing here.

Comments

[crimethink]

Either this is fabricated or Kerry doesn't know his stuff. Our expenditures on Iraq are in the hundreds of billions already...

[rst]

"Voting machines were distributed in uneven ways," Kerry maintained. "In Democratic districts, it took people four, five, eleven hours to vote, while Republicans [went] through in 10 minutes -- same voting machines, same process, our America."

Notwithstanding the only poll spectacles I saw were products of the Great Unwashed Left, look at the election map for five minutes, then beat Kerry in the head with a voting machine for being stupid.

Democratic districts were primarily urban counties with hundreds of thousands or millions of voters. Republican districts were primarily podunk counties with thousands or tens of thousands of voters. Of course the Republican lines are gonna go faster, there's fewer of them spread across a thousand times the landmass, and they're less likely to have 9 to 5 jobs with largely predictable commutes that will find them all at the polls at the same time.

I know it's a bit much to expect critical thought from a senator, but wasn't he supposed to be the intellectual?

hundreds of billions already...

Yes, but only a few hundred million go towards democracy. The rest goes towards our Kill All The Iraqis plan.

[damaged justice]

"In a nation..."

Anyone else flash on the trailer for THE COMEDIAN?

[The Lonewacko Blog]

I have access to a special website that shows me that there's a kernel of truth to his remarks about voting machine distribution.

[Matt]

Other than the editorializing in the first paragraph (In remarks made at the annual Martin Luther King Day Breakfast in Boston on Monday, Sen. John F. Kerry (D-MA), who was defeated in November by President George W. Bush in his bid for the White House, said his loss was the result of voters who were "suppressed."), I don't see anything in the article to suggest that Kerry drew a causal connection between his ultimate loss and any voting issues. One can accept a loss while still criticizing specifics of the electoral process. I don't think there's anything dishonorable or sore loserish about wanting to ensure that everyone has equal access to the polls on relatively equal conditions.

[Madog]

The difference in voters per machine and the difference in time needed to vote between democrats and republicans don't add up. A 50% heavier load for democrat areas wouldn't explain a 300%+ difference in time. It looks like Democrats took longer to vote for what ever reason.

[NoStar]

The number of polling places, the number of voting machines, the type of voting machines, and voter registration are controlled at the county level. So, if Democrat controlled counties have more problems with voting lines, voter registration, miscounted and uncounted votes, it would be the fault of the Democrats that control the process at the county level and ultimately at those voters who elected them.

In Seattle at least, the Democrats put their ineptitude to good use. It took three recounts but they final "found" enough votes to put Gregoire's vote total above Rossi's in the gubernatorial race.

[huh]

anyone think that people who say it took them 9 hours to vote are just flat out lying? I don't buy it for a second. Give me a video of a line and it taking the guy with the camera 9 hours to get through and I'll buy it. Took me an hour, big whoop.

[atomicsoda]

How is he a cry baby, it is very clear that there was vote fraud in Ohio and Florida in this election. Minorities were kept from the polls in Ohio with 12 hour voting lines and many other tactics, read the studues that were done. Diebold machines also are very suspect. The Bush machine will do anything to maintain power and knew the fix was in. Thts why the results were off from the exit polls in those two states.

[Gilbert Martin]

atomicsoda is way out in looney-tune land along with those who believe in alien abductions.

[free form]

This Ohio voter stood in line for 3.5 hours to cast her vote for a third party. I did have an issue with the touch-screen on a candidate for judge. I pushed the box for one candidate, and another box lit up. I cleared it and did it again, and my preferred vote registered.

The elections here are controlled equally. For instance, two Democrats, two Republicans in charge. It's done that way to help prevent the circumstances we're accused of having.

The real issue here is that you will find mechanical errors in the system wherever you look for it. With millions of people voting, there will be a certain percentage of bad votes. Since the closest states were expected to be Florida and Ohio, that's where the scrutiny was. I am willing to bet that a similar percentage of bad votes happened all over the country, in areas of high population.

Wah, wah, wah.

[dlc]

"...looney-tune land along with those who believe in alien abductions"

Assuming we are to believe the Roper Poll, 57% of Americans apparently live in looney-tune land.

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc989.htm

[Steve Smith]

"Cry baby" seems a bit harsh. Contrary to the headline at the Republican website, Kerry wasn't blaming his defeat on the long lines, only noting that long lines were a problem in the last election, and that thousands of people were driven away from voting by having to wait hours in line.

[kwais]

"57% of Americans apparently live in looney-tune land."

Yes they do. One of the most disheartening things to read it the percentages of people that believe certain outlandish things. And the percentage of people that don't know stuff that you would think everybody knows.

[dlc]

Just a general question, but does anyone believe that if the roles had been reversed either in 2000 or 2004, the Republicans would have been any more gracious in defeat?

Example A: Dino Rossi leads in WA Gov's race and calls recount attempt "pathetic." Rossi then trails in Gov's race after recount and starts calling for a re-vote, screaming about "fraud and abuse."

I guess my point is that it is disingenuous for Republicans to be calling Kerry a cry-baby, a kook, and so-on.

[Gilbert Martin]

"One of the most disheartening things to read it the percentages of people that believe certain outlandish things. "

I would take it with a very big grain of salt that 57% of people ACTUALLY believe in UFO's or alien abductions based on any poll.

[DanInAlabama]

And over 90% believe there is a old white man sitting in a place called heaven.

[pigwiggle]

57% of this person believes in UFOs. I'm trying to get the other 43% to stop mocking him.

[Isaac Bartram]

51% of American voters went for a guy that believes he gets orders from God. 48% went for a guy who thinks he has magical powers (look at the dimmycrap platform).

What a wonderful loony country we live in.

Frankly it makes no difference to me how the fucking votes are counted. I still wish Al Gore had gotten away with stealing the election in 00, I can't see how it could have been any worse.

[madtom]

Actually, regarding the alien abduction poll, the 57% figure doesn't refer to the percentage of Americans who believe in alien abductions.

When it comes to alien abductions, one in five Americans in general and more than half (57 percent) of those who say that humans have already interacted with extraterrestrial life believe that abductions have taken place. [emphasis added]

--from the Google cache of the above referenced page

Which would mean that poll asserts that only 20% of Americans live in looney-tune land.

[Thomas Paine's Goiter]

Minorities were kept from the polls in Ohio with 12 hour voting lines and many other tactics

Prove it. All you've got are accounts from 'disenfranchised' minorites scared up by the DNC.

Do you really believe that it took 12 hours for anyone to vote?

[Cletus Nelson]

I'm not going to call him a crybaby---just a chucklehead...

[The Real Bill]

You'd think that on a libertarian board the fact that most people voted for Bush or Kerry would prove that most people live in looney-tune land. Or is it that most of the libertarians on this board were too chicken-shit to not vote for one of these two lame-asses?

[cdunlea]

Let me see here--we're supposed to take at face value the message of a propaganda organ of the GOP? The same GOP that brought us Donald Rumsfeld, Iraqi WMD, delusional budget forecasts, the PATRIOT Act and the Iraqi Mission Accomplished?

Sorry, not buying it. "Consider the source", indeed. Because someone has to point out that we're hardly the gold standard to be running elections in Iraq when we have had two contested national elections in four years.

[The Real Bill]

So, cdunlea, are the Democrats are more reliable?

[joe]

Actually, Kerry went out of his way to make it clear that he didn't believe the electoral problems changed the results of the election. Just as the Democrats who denounced the voting problems during the tabulation of the Electoral College votes all began their statements by confirming that the problems with the vote didn't change the outcome.

Nonetheless, the Republicans whined about conspiracies to overturn the election in both cases, and ignored what was actually being discussed, because the pathetic voting non-system in this country tends to benefit their party when it fails, and an honest discussion of the issue is the last thing they want to have.

If there are a lot more people going to the polling station, rst, shouldn't there be more machines for them to vote on?

[Brendan Perez]

"I still wish Al Gore had gotten away with stealing the election in 00, I can't see how it could have been any worse"

If he had, we'd all be reading the Koran right now.*
*Bonus points for the "who said?", it's a bonus point day all day...

The speeches would be dull and flat, but at least we could understand the basic flow and not have to ask ourselves if he was actually speaking a known language 🙂

Slightly more serious, had he been elected he probably would have been able to push for renewal of the mean looking gun ban and I wouldn't have been able to new 16rd mags for my SW99 for $30/each 🙁

[Gilbert Martin]

"because the pathetic voting non-system in this country tends to benefit their party when it fails, and an honest discussion of the issue is the last thing they want to have."

Yeah that's the way to get an "honest discussion" going - starting off with ridiculous rhetoric like "pathetic voting non-system".

[Isaac Bartram]

Slightly more serious, had he been elected he probably would have been able to push for renewal of the mean looking gun ban and I wouldn't have been able to new 16rd mags for my SW99 for $30/each 🙁

Well, to some Ds all guns are "mean looking". One Gore voter in 00 told me she voted for Al "because he would do something about all the guns". When pressed she was not really very clear about what needed to be done about "all the guns" so I concluded that she somehow believed that he was going to apply occult powers and just make them disappear*. That's when I first realized that Ds weren't just stupid like Rs they just believe in magic.

*I get the same feeling when Ds talk about poverty, the "health care cisis" or whatever else they're excercised about at the moment.

[joe]

Perhaps, Gil, I should have included references to aliens and "looney tunes" in order to keep the conversation on the elevated level you prefer.

But why bother? You've demonstrated exactly the determination to shut down this conversation I accused your side of, every time it has come up on this board, regardless of how it is raised.

[Gilbert Marrtin]

"But why bother?"

Why should anybody who isn't a Democrat hack pay any attention to their carping about "voter fraud"?

Not a damn one of them has produced anything of any substance whatsoever to back it up.

[joe]

How would you know, Gil? You don't pay them any attention.

[jimmy]

i think several responses are right on the money suggesting that this anecdotal evidence of voting problems is just that...isolated incidents, wild exaggerations, conspiracy theories. if the mainstream dems and all their lawyers had real evidence, wouldn't they be screaming it on every media outlet in the country? instead you merely have disgruntled fringe-dwellers repeating unsubstantiated innuendo.

take mahoning county, ohio (youngstown), where dems were alleged to have been somehow disenfranchised by a lack of voting machines. you need a freakin' private investigator to even find a living, breathing republican in y-town, but somehow they were able to sneak in under the radar and manipulate the supply of voting machines???? come on.

if the republicans truly were crafty and competent enough to pull off this massive voter fraud, you'd think they'd also be able to win a little war.

btw, i had to wait 55 minutes to vote in california, and then had my ballot tossed into the provisional ballot pile cuz of a machine malfunction, so i don't know whether my futile voite for badnarik was ever counted. but i'm not silly enough to blame the dems who run the state. when you have a million laypersons volunteering to be poll workers, shit is gonna happen...there's no conspiracy in that.

[Isaac Bartram]

you need a freakin' private investigator to even find a living, breathing republican in y-town, but somehow they were able to sneak in under the radar and manipulate the supply of voting machines????

But that's why we're doomed, man. Fucking Republicans, they don't just steal elections, they get Democrats to do it for them.