"The agency just wants these people to disappear forever"
Mamdouh Habib, an Australian citizen who grew up in Egypt, was captured in Pakistan in October 2001 by American forces who suspected him of being a terrorist, then sent to an Egyptian prison cell where (he says) he was tortured into false confessions, before being transferred to Guantanamo Bay in May 2002. He's now being sent back to Australia, a free man. In the L.A. Times roundup of Habib's case, there is this chilling passage about the CIA's practice of outsourcing torture, known euphemistically as "extraordinary rendition":
News accounts, congressional testimony and independent investigations suggest the spy agency has covertly delivered at least 18 terrorism suspects since 1998 to Egypt, Syria, Jordan and other Middle Eastern nations where, according to State Department reports, torture has been widely used on prisoners.
The actual number of CIA-run renditions, especially since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States, is believed to be far higher. Officials say the CIA's role has varied widely, from providing electronic and other covert surveillance before raids to flying blindfolded terrorism suspects from one country to another on a Gulfstream jet the agency uses.
"It's a growth industry," said a recently retired CIA clandestine officer who worked on several "renditions" in the Arab world. "We rendered a lot of people to Egypt, Jordan and the Saudis in particular…. Ultimately, the agency just wants these people to disappear forever."
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All you--I still don't know what else to call you--pro-torture people out there, even if we deny a prisoner rights under the Conventions, doesn't everyone in custody have the right to fight extradition?
in kant's words: "Act only according to that maxim by which you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law."
While I probably have a greater tolerance for some of the more aggressive techniques of interrogation than many around here, I am opposed to practices that actually amount to torture.
I don't really care if we do them ourselves, or offshore it to countries with a more experience (and doubtless cheaper) workforce. Rendition for torture is no different than torture.
But what if there was a terrorist who knew where a hidden nuclear bomb in Los Angeles was and the only way you could get him to talk was to ship him to Egypt and ... ah, screw it.
Mamdouh Habib, an Australian citizen who grew up in Egypt, was captured in Pakistan
I think we need to work on Mamdouh's decision-making skills.
"But what if there was a terrorist who knew where a hidden nuclear bomb in Los Angeles was and the only way you could get him to talk was to ship him to Egypt and..."
Hidden nuclear bomb? Oh sure, if THAT happens, you can go ahead and torture someone to save the lives of millions of Americans.
So, I keep hearing that there's some torture going on. How many nuclear bombs have you recovered so far?
"So, I keep hearing that there's some torture going on. How many nuclear bombs have you recovered so far?"
Would you really want to know?
You guys keep imagining that somehow we can have spies and interogation and keep it according to the Marquis of Queensbury.
It simply doesn't work that way. Not in the real world anyway. I would remind you that George Washington, father of our country, didn't use torture. He simply ordered British spies to be shot (no military tribunals).
If you want to abolish government torture then step one is to abolish the CIA. Step two might be to bring home all troops worldwide. Yep, we can keep going from there.........
He simply ordered British spies to be shot
he had the advantage, mr twc, of knowing who was guilty of capital crimes -- whereas we are torturing people essentially at random for whatever they might know, in the hopes that they might implicate someone of a capital crime.
not the same.
the remainder of your post is false dichotomy.