Keeping the Faith
This Washington Post profile of supply sider–cum-neoprotectionist Paul Craig Roberts—in the headline and early parts of the article, anyway—and this Bob Herbert column both retread the irritating, psychologizing notion that supporters of free markets are "believers," adherents of some inscrutable faith, mindlessly reciting the catechism of St. Adam Smith. In a sense, this is necessary: As the Post piece emphasizes—though with the unfortunate implication that this makes him a bold iconoclast, rather than simply wrong—Roberts is running against the overwhelming consensus among professional economists. So to explain why most other qualified people take this position, the anti-traders need to come up with some sort of narrative that invalidates their views.
Anyway, both pieces raise an objection we're likely to see repeated more and more this election season: That trade defenders have "faith" that it will create jobs in the long term, without being able to say in advance where those jobs will emerge. But of course, as Friedrich Hayek observed, this is one of the best arguments in favor of letting the market work: If it were possible to know in advance how capital and labor would be allocated, the case against economic planning or management would be much weakened. The argument is obviously a general one, like most of the rest in economics: You may not know who will enter a sector with high profit margins and low barriers to entry, but there are plenty of sound economic reasons to think that someone will. Demanding that market advocates in either case play psychic is a pointless game that misses the point.
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Short-term, american fast food thinking. free trade is much too complicated for this ADD riddled society. "show me the money today" is more important to the common Bubba than what can this do for society in the long term.
Good commentary, Julian.
It never seems to strike them as faith when they act as though the government knows what it is doing - that the 'fair' price of labor is X and so on.
The argument is annoying to me in the same way the "libertopia" bit is. The libertarian position is more skeptical than the alternatives, not less.
The libertarian position is more skeptical than the alternatives, not less.
They'll get you either way. "Well maybe a world of poverty and inequality is okay for you, but some of us dream of a better world...."
well, is it "faith" if there's empirical evidence?
as this article from last week's economist points out
Of course, that's assuming that the "jobs" that are spawned by these shifts arent the kind of job that the guy who was interviewed here
wishes he could have had as a teenager.
In outsourcing overseas, we've found a more efficient way to get a job done. It has the same effect as if we'd invented some new technology to do the job. It's hard to believe we'll get poorer by finding more efficient ways to do things.
Suppose we could get everything we want for free from some highly altruistic foreigners. Wouldn't this make us infinitely rich? It's hard to imagine being poor when you can have anything you want for free.
Will-
An excellent point, of course. The rhetoric of "knee-jerk faith" is a way of dodging the fact that both facts and theory are on the other side.
All good points, but consider this:
Almost everybody agrees that those of us living nowadays are better off because of the Industrial Revolution, but among the people who actually lived through said Revolution there was a great deal of suffering. If we could go back in time and tell some miserably impoverished factory worker or displaced farm worker "You will live with hard work and poverty all your life, but your great-grandchildren will be richer than you ever dreamed possible," I don't know how well that would cheer anyone.
Likewise, I'm certain that, barring a major war or complete ice-cap meltdown or some such catastrophe, by the year 2150 there will be people all over the world who will be damned grateful that Western industrialized nations had all these churning troubles in the early 21st century. But the average American worker who lost his job and is in the process of losing everything else will not be cheered by tales of how rosy life will be in the year 2100. What, if anything, should be done for the people suffering now?
All right, all right, get a room.
I don't the remarkably common observation that Free Traders have gotten a bit spacey lately is based on anything inherent to libertarian philosophy. People aren't looking at you funny because of Reason and Rand's policy papers.
It's just that, in this particular poltical mileiu, there are a lot of libertarian True Believers. And while different True Believers may have better or worse arguments for their particular cult, they're all True Believers, and they're all subject to the intellectual traps that dog True Believers.
Examples of True Believers, joe?
I'm a True Believer in the economic fact that demand curves slope down, although I'm always willing to amend this belief if shown a convincing argument to the contrary. Why should I treat the law of comparative advantage any differently?
Perhaps Joe is referring to the fact that, for all the talk about how free trade is helping the economy, there are nonetheless many people suffering. Go up to a guy who's been unemployed for over a year and say "Yes, but notice how much CHEAPER everything is in the stores?" Or the woman who works two jobs and still can't afford to feed herself and her child. Better yet, tell this woman that minimum wage laws hurt the economy, and we'd all be better off if she only made two dollars an hour scrubbing toilets, rather than the princely 5.15 she gets now.
Again--in the long, long run this will probably all be for the best, but people are naturally concerned with their own lifetimes, not their great-grandchildren's. I think one reason Libertarians don't get much respect in society is because they/we are viewed as people who will sink our teeth into a principle and refuse to let go, no matter how many people might be hurt by it.
Remember--don't tell ME why minimum wage is evil; tell the people trying to live on it. And then you'll see why libertarianism will probably always be a marginalized philosophy.
Jennifer, I think you are confusing basic mainstream economics with libertarianism. Libertarians aren't the only ones who support free-trade and oppose minimum wage laws. The vast majority of economists do as well.
No one denies that many people are suffering. What we deny is the claim that less people would suffer under protectionism.
It's easy to see how a steel worker's job was saved because of Bush's steel tariffs. But what about the five autoworkers' jobs lost because of the same tariffs?
It's easy to see how the woman earning minimum wage benefits from this law. But what about the five other people who would have been employed had this law not been in place?
This has nothing to do with the "long run" in the sense that only our great-grandchildren will benefit. Economic downturns do not last for four generations. Not even close.
Don't tell me why protectionism and minimum wage laws are a good idea; tell the people who will suffer because of them.
"But a lot people, because they share your values so strongly, assume that whatever economic theory they think supports that value statement MUST be objectively true on questions of how to maximize efficiency, growth, and distribution of resources."
joe:
I don't think libertarians are all that fond of systems that seek to maximize the distribution of resources ... 🙂
Since when is that a different argument? Morals and values are directly related to economics. Talk about avoiding nuance...
Jennifer:
"we(libertarians) are viewed as people who will sink our teeth into a principle and refuse to let go, no matter how many people might be hurt by it."
But, the history of putting libertarian principles into practice is the world's history of human betterment. Even when done in a very moderate dose, good results have been realized. For instance; Reagan's modest, but real reduction in regulations and reduction in tax rates as well as stemming the rate of increase in federal spending gave rise to the first statistically significant Black and Hispanic upper-middle classes.
But the average American worker who lost his job...
"What, if anything, should be done for the people suffering now?"
I think the best thing we can do is to try to help
their children do well in their studies despite the parents difficulties. Also, we should help folks be better prepared for hard times. But, no force; no government programs. They only institutionalize and perpetuate problems. And the main thing, is to stop the hard times from happening in the first place by reducing taxes and regulation.
.
And, of course there is the Fed jerking around the money supply that also causes ecomomic "dislocations". The Fed isn't federal but it is a government granted monopoly.
"Morals and values are directly related to economics."
Yes and no. What do you mean?
Sounds like Julian is wrestling with bad faith !
Rick Barton--
If the Industrial Revolution brought about an end to famine, why did so many Irish die in the nineteenth century potato famine?
Because the wealthy British landlords had the power to do so, and chose to exercise it. Oh, if only the Irish realized they had the theoretical right to buy food from somebody else!
The idea that if your employer mistreats you, you can find another job, doesn't always work. In reality, there tend to be more workers than their are jobs. And there will always be someone so desperate that they'll work for a pittance, thus driving wages down for everyone.
how exactly do you want me to respond? If I give an example, is one example enough? If I give an exception, that would disprove my statement. I tried disproving my statement before I made it, but I could not think of one moral concept that doesn't have an economic impact in some way when put into action.
If you can think of any, I'd like your examples. And you're welcome to email me if you want to have an extended discussion.
I just wasn't sure what you meant by "directly related." Are you saying that economic actions have moral implications, and moral actions can have economic implications? Because, while I certainly agree that the two come into contact with each other on a regular basis, they are not the same thing.
The number one thing politicians need to do to protect jobs is to prevent outsourcing. To make this happen what we need is action from the United Nations. They must pass a resolution preventing countries from buying goods and services from outside their borders. Every one in the world deserves to have their jobs protected. Especially people in poor countries. This will put an end to unfair competition from India whose cheap labor is costing Americans service jobs. From China whose cheap labor is costing Americans manufacturing jobs. From Saudi Arabia whose cheap oil has destroyed the American oil industry. From Germany whose auto companies now own the Chrysler Corporation. And from America whose cheap software has ruined the software industries of nearly every other country on earth.
Think of how galling it must be for the poor of other countries to find out that rich Americans are stealing their jobs.
Outsourcing hurts every one. It is a world wide problem. The world needs to take action. Now.
--
(c) M. Simon - All rights reserved.
M. Simon is an industrial controls engineer for Space-Time Productions and a Free Market Green. Permission granted for one time use in a single periodical. Concurrent publication on the periodical's www site is also granted.
"In reality, there tend to be more workers than their are jobs."
Has it always been the case that there are more workers than jobs? I can remember the IT boom of just a few years ago...
joe, my stance is that moral actions always have economic implications. I don't know how to come up with an example where that is not the case. I don't think a semantic argument would matter here, but the fact is that actions imply choice. If morals and economics are not the same, there is still a choice made between one or the other.
I hadn't thought of it in terms that economic actions always having moral implications, but I can think of cases where it is true. Certainly it gets framed that way with things like coffee and taxation; there's "politically correct" coffee and there is a certain element that considers paying taxes a moral obligation. I can't see a moral implication on whether I choose the apples or the pears, but I haven't given that one a whole lot of thought. It certainly doesn't seem as absolute that economic decisions always have moral impact as it does the other way round.
Jennifer-
Actually, you can italicize. Here's how:
At the start of a phrase that you want to italicize, put "" but leave out all the quotation marks. I put the quotes in because without them you won't see the tag, you'll just see the text that follows it all italicized.
At the end of that phrase, type "" but without all the quotes.
Doh! It left out the tags that I wanted to show you anyway.
OK, let's try this again:
At the beginning of a phrase that you want to italicize type "". At the end of the phrase type "".
Hope this works.
Doh! No matter what I do, the symbol of the "less than sign" is removed from the text.
So, at the start of a phrase that you want to italicize, type the "less than sign", i.e. the sign that you would put between "2" and "3". Then type "i". Then type the greater than sign, i.e. the sign you would put between 3 and 2.
At the end of the phrase type the same thing, except that instead of "i" you put "/i".
I imagine this will seem quite humorous to most people here.
"What, if anything, should be done for the people suffering now?"
Why don't you invite them over for dinner?
Jennifer,
The problem with your "human nature" argument is that it applies even more strongly to government than it does to the free-market. I certainly agree with you that the free market will not always produce our desired outcome, and if we had an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent, uncorruptable person we could place in charge of an economy, things might be much better off in many cases.
Alas, we have no such leader. The same evil that you believe afflicts everyone in a free market surely afflicts politicians as well. The question is not: is the free market better than an omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipotent, uncorruptable economic planner?; rather, the question is: is the free market better than the alternative, namely regulation of the economy by imperfect humans who suffer from the same maladies we all do?
As for an answer to your last question, your proposed cure is worse than the disease. Protecting jobs simply causes more jobs in other sectors to be lost. One way that workers themselves can address the risk is by purchasing unemployment insurance. Another is through savings. Yet another is through charitable contributions.
If you are put off by moralitic libertarianism, so am I. Read some David Friedman for the nonmoralistic kind.
Jennifer,
To bold do the same thing, but replace the i and /i with b and /b respectively. To make a link replace the i with 'a href="http://link"' (without the single quotes) and the /i with /a. Either that or ask one of your students to teach you HTML tags. 🙂
Let me see if this works.
Well hot damn, it does. Thanks, Thoreau. I apologize for telling my students that I thought your book stunk.
Micha--I wasn't talking about protecting specific jobs, I know that is a bad idea; I'm talking about money. Or food vouchers, or whatever. . .yes, I know that a few cheats will take advantage of this. But it's better than having a huge resentful underclass. Is it really good for society to have a huge mass of people who work their butts off and still can barely survive, let alone have a chance to improve themselves? The Frenchmen who sent Louis and Marie Antoinette to the guillotine weren't the comfortable middle-class guys; they were the ones who for the most part had nothing left to lose.
Also forgot to mention, I don't advocate a planned economy. Basically, I advocate a free market-free trade thing, but along the way make adjustments. For example, I'm opposed to tariffs for the most part, but I also feel that an American factory owner who has to pay a decent wage to his employees can't possibly compete with a factory owner in China who utilizes what is basically slave labor. Nor should he have to; better to tariff the Chinese guy so that he thinks, "Damn. Rather than pay all this money to those lousy gweilos, I may as well give it to my workers."
Douglas--
Obviously I can't feed all the poor in the world, but since I never supported unfettered libertarianism I'm not suffering any crisis of conscience. And bear in mind, I didn't say I disagreed with all of you; I just pointed out how the majority tend to view us.
Personally, I believe human nature is intrinsical;ly evil, and don't trust a system where a worker's only protection is the employer's good will.
"the irritating, psychologizing notion that supporters of free markets are 'believers,' adherents of some inscrutable faith, mindlessly reciting the catechism of St. Adam Smith..."
Not to be confused with the irritating, psychologizing notion that those who maintain the existence of free will are adherents of some inscrutable faith and must obviously believe in the existence of gods and immortal souls.
Personally, I believe human nature is intrinsical;ly evil, and don't trust a system where a worker's only protection is the employer's good will.
Would you trust a system where a worker's only protection is the politician's good will?
Jennifer,
Why should our compassion stop at the border? Most Americans who lose their jobs will still live better than most of the world. My girlfriend grew up in India so poor that she never had a single toy, and her family never had a car, a phone or a TV when she was growing up. We would consider someone living that way to be destitute, but she said there were people much worse off than her family. She recently visited her hometown and was amazed by the improvement in the standard of living. Several of her eight siblings have cars, and she stayed with a sister whose home has a phone, cable TV, and Internet service. Isn't that a good thing?
Going beyond mere material possessions, the increase in wealth in India results in lower infant death rates, improved health care, etc. - things that we take for granted.
The people in India are not working for nothing. They will use their newly found wealth to buy things from the rest of the world. It would be wonderful if all we had to do is send green paper to the rest of the world to buy their goods and services. However, they tend to return that green paper to us expecting us to send something to them in return. The returned money is used to buy American products or invest in the US. Either way, it provides jobs to Americans. As someone above pointed out, it is much easier to identify the steelworker who lost his job to free trade than to see who gained a better job due to free trade.
I have met quite a few people in the IT field who have lost their jobs in recent years. Some have chosen not to work for well over a year. I say "chosen not to work" because every one of them has other marketable skills - some quite considerable. Without the incentives provided by the welfare state to remain unemployed, many of them would have already found jobs in other fields.
Here in the DC area are many immigrants with few marketable skills other than a willingness to work and with little command of English. Plenty of them work in jobs that pay considerably more than minimum wage. There ARE Americans who are in a bad situation due to circumstances beyond their control. However, a willingness to try something new goes a long way towards curing unemployment. Subsidizing idleness gives us more of it.
A decent wage? According to whom? And where? That Chinese worker is probably not doing too poorly by Chinese standards.
Thank you, Micha, for twice illustrating one of the True Believer-dogging traps I referred to: the tendency to True Believers to repeat simple rules an explanations for complex events, and dismiss all aspects of those events not covered by the truism as irrelevant or outliers.
Rick's take on the industrial revolution is similarly illustrative. "It was the result of a dramatic increase in individual freedom and released the productive forces of science and acquisitiveness." Well, partially. I think the expropriation of farmers' land in the countryside and the subsequent flooding of cities with desperate labor might have had something to do with it. "People suffered much less then they had immediately before." And we know what came immediately before.
None of which contradicts his basic thesis that industrial development brought about increases in living standards. But the wnwillingness to admit anything that counteracts the basic thesis is, again, True Believer SOP.
The world is an enormously complicated place. People who offer simple answers for its problems are not to be trusted.
Personally, I believe human nature is intrinsical;ly evil, and don't trust a system where a worker's only protection is the employer's good will.
This may have been the case in the past, and may be the case in monopolized industries (which run afoul of other problems), but I don't think this is really as much of an issue now. It seems to me that media access for victims of scandals and oppression is very easy to come by, and in any case, the employer's 'good will' isn't the ONLY protection they have, if they're allowed to quit. If you have a case like joe brought up in an earlier thread, where there are external pressures for people to keep the jobs (say their legal residency status depends on the employment) then that is an unfair pressure on the worker. But in any situation where the worker can publicize their exploitation, or can quit, is a good defense against exploitation by employers. It's not solely relying on the good will of those running the business, it's relying on that same market to police the businesses.
Note that this does not work when there isn't that freedom for labor, tho. But being laid off in order to enhance the productivity of a company is part of the two-way freedom of contract, in my opinion.
joe,
"And we know what came immediately before."
I was speaking of the waves of famine that existed for hundreds of years, right up to the industrial revolution, which extinguished them. People quit starving to death.
Tsk, tsk, Rick. The world is too complex a place for something as simple as the industrial revolution to be a solution to starvation. Please stop trying to confuse us with the facts. Your kind cannot be trusted.
>Jennifer says: "Personally, I believe human nature is intrinsical;ly evil, and don't trust a system where a worker's only protection is the employer's good will."
I agree with your assessment of human nature, although "evil" is an overstatement.
But the worker's only protection is NOT the employer's good will. Workers are protected by access to other jobs, so that the employer has motivation to treat the worker well.
Micha, please note that I never claimed your truisms were untrue. And if you reread my response to Rick, you'll notice the part where I agreed with his statement on the material benefits of industrialization.
Micha, you're a blind man who's discovered the elephants tail.
Let's see: you don't dispute the truth of my truisms (and note, they are not my truisms, anymore than they are your truisms). So what exactly is your point then? You have not demonstrated any adherence to blind faith, as I am more than willing to modify my views if shown convincing evidence.
What exactly are you looking for, other than an argument?
I'm looking to point out that Free Trade True Believers, like all True Believers, have difficulty with nuance, which is a handicap in a complicated world.
For boiling my comments down to, "joe loves starvation," I appreciate your help.
'like all True Believers, have difficulty with nuance,"
The common comeback/excuse of all people who truly believe they aren't true believers. joe, you're usually better than that.
Russ, reread the posts from Micha, and the posts they respond to, and tell me I don't have a point about True Believers.
True Believer = someone who disagrees with joe
"I don't the remarkably common observation that Free Traders have gotten a bit spacey lately is based on anything inherent to libertarian philosophy."
Posted by joe at February 26, 2004 10:13 PM
Er... Can I step in for a second and ask: Is M. Simon's copyright notice for real, or a joke?
joe, I didn't say you didn't have a point. I said you're doing the same thing your detractors are doing. Pot kettle black.
No one on either side of the discussion is going to explain nuance in a weblog post. That's what books are for. Julian's point seems to be that there are plenty of discussions of nuance done by economists and the majority of them come to a free-market conclusion. Calling them "true believers" in Adam Smith doesn't make them so.
In fact, Micha did not make ANY statements of belief of any kind! Micha said "demand curves slope down" and qualified it asking for examples to the contrary. None were provided. Micha also stated "Economic downturns do not last for four generations." No one has disputed that claim either. Everything else by Micha was in the form of a question, none of them were addressed. Other than you, Micha only responded to Jennifer.
And her posts basically said that people "suffering" don't want to hear about nuance (yes, I'm paraphrasing her, she can correct me if she wants to).
If true believers don't want to hear about nuance, then they suffer (pardon my Stevie Wonder).
If we're dividing the world into 0s and 1s, then yes, economists as a whole support free trade as a whole. However, economics is a notoriously cranky field of inquiry, with heated internal debate the rule, and consensus the exception. No, they don't argue about whether demand curves slope down, for example, but neither do they pretend (as some of their political cheerleaders do) that such a statement is adequate for addressing the messy questions in the real world. There's a reason supply side economists aren't simply called "economists;" because there are economists on the other side.
I'm not disputing Micha's statement about demand curves any more than I'm disputing the laws of thermodynamics. But neither am I going to walk past a guy whose clothes are fire because of my confidence that, in the long run, energy dissipates.
Then help the guy who's on fire. Just don't steal money from me and everybody else to do it.
See, that's different argument, one based on morals and values, that sheds no light whatsoever on the economic impacts of various policies and events.
But a lot people, because they share your values so strongly, assume that whatever economic theory they think supports that value statement MUST be objectively true on questions of how to maximize efficiency, growth, and distribution of resources.
Jennifer and Micha both hit good points.
For every law there is at least one winner. And for most laws there is at least one loser. If the winner is especially sympathetic relative to the loser, or if the winner is visible while the loser is less obvious, repealing the law will be a tough sell.
I want to add that not all laws produce undeserving losers. The people who lose out on laws against theft, murder, rape, etc. obviously deserve their defeat (i.e. incarceration).
Frankly, I'm not very interested in "economic theory" and "how to maximize" blah-blah-blah. I'm just interested in freedom.
Jennifer:
"those of us living nowadays are better off because of the Industrial Revolution, but among the people who actually lived through said Revolution there was a great deal of suffering." "...by the year 2150 there will be people all over the world who will be damned grateful that Western industrialized nations had all these churning troubles in the early 21st century.
The Industrial Revolution brought an end to famine. It was the result of a dramatic increase in individual freedom and released the productive forces of science and acquisitiveness. The population shot up rapidly because people quit experiencing waves of starvation. People suffered much less then they had immediately before. The volume; Capitalism and the HistoriansEd. F.A. Hayek is interesting on this period.
I don't think we're seeing any such individual liberation presently, the results of, future generations will be thankful for. But, the fruits of freedom still continue to spring forth. One that posterity might be very glad for is; Biotech, especially therapeutic cloning, assuming government doesn't kill it off.
Decent wage=enough to survive. Is it really healthy for society to have a huge resentful underclass of people who work eighty hours a wekk, yet know they still have no hope of upward mobility? Those who feel they have nothing to lose are the ones most likely to become revolutionaries, and I don't feel like having my middle-class head guillotined off.
There's a huge underclass in the U.S.? Maybe you should read up on how economic freedom affects income disparity before you run off into these oddball dystopian class war fantasies. Seriously, that sounds like something a teenager would write. And you call libertarians loopy.
Geotech--
Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich, if you do not believe me about the American underclass. You don't have to be a dystopian teenager to see that the way the system is rigged now, once a person drops below a certain level it's all but impossible to climb back up again.
Is that why i wasted my time working at Kmart
while i got my masters in math.
signed
still workin in retail
When a government takes over a people's economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs. -- Maxwell Anderson
To be controlled in our economic pursuits means to be controlled in everything. -- Friedrich August Hayek
Government cannot make man richer, but it can make him poorer. -- Ludwig von Mises
The free market is the only mechanism that has ever been discovered for achieving participatory democracy. -- Milton Friedman in the Introduction to the Fiftieth Anniversary Edition of The Road to Serfdom
Rick--Even when you worked in retail, you weren't at the very bottom; again, read Ehrenreich's book.
And to all else let me say again: I do NOT advocate complete government control of the economy! Don't use slippery-slope logic to pretend that supporters of a living wage are only one step away from full COmmunism; that's like saying "If we let the government outlaw rape, soon all sex will be illegal." Not true.
I'm not saying there aren't poor people in the US. I'm saying there isn't a huge majority underclass in the US, like your rantings above are suggesting. Read some works by Johan Norberg. The biggest income disparities between rich and poor and the biggest underclasses are in protectionist un-liberalized 3rd World nations.
It was her loopy French Revolution-style fantasies about a rioting lowerclass executing the bourgeoisie that I responded too. She might not have been saying it outright, but she was certainly implying it. "Faith" in the market isn't based on any religious type devotion, it's based on lots of evidence.
"The same evil that you believe afflicts everyone in a free market surely afflicts politicians as well." That's why we are a nation of laws, not men, and why there are so many checks and balances built into the system; to allow the government to do what it does, while preventing politicians, with their human failings, from getting too much unchallenged power to pursue their own ends.
Geotech, nothing Jennifer wrote suggests "a huge majority underclass in the US."
Stop arguing with the Liberal That Lives in Your Head. You're going to get straw in your hair.
The belief so many have in the market is nothing short of amazing.
How can a market self organize? It is a fallacy a dream world.
You might as well believe that demand will create a supply - how absurd.
The proof of my contention is a simple one. Just try buying some pot in America. Even better just try buying some in prison. Impossible.
Jennifer,
If a job is profitable to an employer at $6 an hour and a money loser at $10 dollars an hour what will happen to that job if pay is mandated at $11 an hour?
I suppose this can work where the business gets it's money at gun point (government) but please tell me under what kind of circumstances in a normal economy can make the living wage other than a job killer?
Suppose a job that is profitable at $5 an hour can be automated at a profit if the wage rate is $7 an hour. What will happen to that job?
Think of the supply demand curve. If prices are above the market clearing price supply will rise and demand will decline. This applies as much to labor as it does to apples.
I think Marx had it correct when he said that capitalism is the only sure way to advance the interests of the working man. (until profits decline to zero). He also said it is going to hurt.
You might be interested to know that the cost of goods in man hours of labor has been declining for at least the last 200 years.
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DATE: 05/20/2004 10:22:58
Man is the missing link between apes and human beings.