It Can't Happen Here?

Tyrannical attacks on free expression in Brazil (of all places!): Here's the deal:

An American Airlines pilot was arrested by Brazilian police today after making an obscene gesture when being photographed at the airport as part of a newly imposed entry requirement for US citizens, federal police said.

The pilot, Dale Robbin Hirsh, lifted his middle finger while undergoing a new fingerprinting and photographing process put in place by Brazil for US citizens on January 1, said Francisco Baltazar da Silva, chief of Sao Paulo's federal police.

Hirsh, 52, was taken to a federal courthouse, where he could be charged by a judge with disrespecting authorities, a crime in Brazil punishable by between six months and two years in jail or a fine, da Silva said. The judge could also decide to deport Hirsh as early as tonight or within days.

Comments

[OL]

I'll have to second cdulea on other Western democracies and their police practices. A friend of mine in Berlin in the mid 80's got arrested by the German cops, and should have been immediately handed over to the American MPs since it was an occupied city, but instead mouthed off in fluent German and got his ass kicked.

A couple of weeks later, he finds in his mail a dry cleaning bill from the cops, charging him for the costs of getting his blood out of their uniforms.

[Cisco]

THIS is the sort of news that makes me embarassed to be Brazilian.

The pilot's attitude towards the airport staff was childish and lamentable, but not at all below the maturity level of the Brazilian government's.

I can only imagine the hissy fits that would happen in America if a judge in, say, Wyoming, gave a quick isolationist decision that mandated every airport to start fingerprinting and photographing French visitors immediately and without warning. Then, after a counter-sue happened in Florida (to topple a decision in Wyoming, keep that in mind), the president issues an executive decision to uphold the original fingerprinting decision before flying of to meet the French president and negotiate the whole deal. It would be a *major* hissy fit.

And you know what? Those would be good hissy fits. When the judiciary and the executive stoop that low, all I can say is this:

Somebody get me a Green Card.

[Mr. Nice Guy]

As stupid and immature US policy can be, I think the bad guys in this case is the Brazilian government, purely because they are destroying their own tourist industry. It is indeed childish to cause more harm then good to yourself to make a snotty point.

I feel very bad for those poor folks at RIO who are trying to make an honest living. They are forced to send cuties to the airports with flowers and "RIO loves you!" T-shirts.. hmmmmm.. if they up the ante a little, maybe I'll head down there 😉

If Brazil is smart, they'll let the pilot go before this gets out of control.

[Douglas Fletcher]

I thought that each culture had it's own obscene gestures, which are usually little-known by outsiders. Has the raised middle finger become a universally recognized symbol, or have they just seen so much of it in Brazil that they now know what it means?

[effoff]

The global monster of the US is imperialistically dominating and destroying the cultural diversity of obscene gestures.

[Dave S]

You will respect my authoritay!

-Cartman

[Cisco]

The middle finger is pretty widely understood here. It's not an import, as far as I can tell.

The American gesture to avoid down here is the "OK" symbol. Making a small 'o' with two fingers while leaving the other three standing means "asshole".

[Xrlq]

Thoreau: pop quiz, how many Congressmen voted for "freedom fries" or "freedom toast," and how many restaurants outside of Congress have followed suit? Bonus points if you can tell me how many visiting Frenchmen have gotten arrested for objecting to such silliness.

OL: Not sure what makes you think the (West?) Berlin authorities should have handed your friend over to American MPs. The East Germans may have considered West Berlin to be an "occupied city," but the West Germans and the West Berliners didn't. I hope that rather than pay the bill, your friend sent them a letter inviting them to "leckt mich am Arsch." Or, better still, to state it a little more politely, "lecken Sie mich am Arsch."

Cisco: well said. No need to be ashamed to be Brazilian, though. Lord knows you didn't do it.

[s.m. koppelman]

Brazil really seems to be having fun with the reciprocal approach to border policy that they have with the US.

The US imposed a visa requirement on Brazilian travelers? Brazil imposed a visa requirement on Americans.

The US imposed its photo-and-fingerprint policy on Brazilians? Brazil's imposed the same on Americans.

The US throws people in jail for acting uppity around TSE staffers? Brazil's just doing the same.

This isn't a story of Brazilian authorities bucking the national stereotype of being "fun". I'm sure the customs agents and police and the judge involved are all having a great deal of fun with this.

[ed]

Do Brazilian ticket agents wear thongs?

[Rob]

I think everybody in Brazil wears a thong.

[Garth]

Bom dia,

Brazil has been doing the reciprocal thing for a long time. The US has always insisted on visas for Brazilians so the Brazilians insist that US citizens have to have visas (though they decided in the late 90s to make them valid for 5 years rather than just the 90 days they used to be good for). European travelers do not have to go through the same b*llsh*t.

Same goes for their policy on free trade in the Americas - the US talks free trade but fails to practice it so the Brazilians block free trade with the US while talking about eventually supporting it.

[zappa]

"I'm telling you, my dear, that it can't happen here. Cause I've been checking it out. I checked it out a couple of times."

[Xrlq]

Is the entire country of Brazil developmentally challenged? Most of us outgrew the "back to you and more of it, nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah" phase by the time we were 10.

[thoreau]

When did our country mature? We're the people who decided to eat Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast. Brazil may not be mature in its attitudes toward other countries, but how mature are we?

(No, no, this is not one of those "This is why they hate us!" posts, just one of those "Stupidity knows no nationality" posts.)

[ed]

"Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast"

Yup, doesn't get much more embarrasing than that.

[cdunlea]

Only Americans think they can get away with flipping off public officials. The same stuff that would get a police department sued in LA or New York is treated as justified nearly everywhere else, not because the police are seen as brutal thugs but because most societies require a show of respect to the authorities.

Based on first-hand accounts from a friend who spent several years as an Army MP at Germany and Spain, even these relatively enlightened societies don't tolerate wiseacres. In Germany, leaning back in a chair with your feet on the desk in the police station will get you knocked over without warning, followed by a lecture on proper sitting posture. In Spain, knocking off an officer's cap will earn you a "justified" police shooting as the "honor of the police" is at stake. And these are Western democracies...

Anybody being paid to fly internationally should know how other countries treat such behavior. Shame on the pilot that he didn't.

[Larry Edelstein]

Sure - folks have a right to do all sorts of damn fool things. But folks shouldn't be surprised if other folks think they're stupid or mean and don't want to hang around them, or spend money with them.

Fingerprinting people coming into the US, a friend of mine mentioned, is one of the few post-9/11 "security" measures that seems like it might do some good.

This is not Brazil's finest hour.

[AJMB]

Nor Hirsh's. I have no problem with U.S. policy in this instance. Just the reaction from some quarters to a retaliatory action from a party that perceives itself to be aggrieved. Brazil is being petty, of that there is no doubt. But hey, at least they're sending thong-wearing samba girls to the airport to ease the frustration.

[Paul]

As a friend of mine put it,

"While i don't speak more than a few OH MY GOD I HAVE NOT HAD ANY COFFEE YET TODAY words of Thai Sign Language (the Deaf Thai guy I know uses ASL, what with being an american now, and all), I know a few basics, like mother(pinky up!), father (index up!), brother(middle finger up!), sister (ring finger up!) and elephant(it's the same as the sign for Thailand itself). This airline pilot was not flipping off security, he was giving them a terse but meaningful gesture embracing the universal brotherhood of mankind, and he was using his native language, being that his parents were Deaf Thai immagrants."

[some guy]

Xrlq: Regardless of whether West Berliners thought they were in an occupied city or not, the point is that, legally, they were. The special rights and privileges of the Allied powers over Berlin (both sides) remained valid until German reunification. Mind, the Allies (at least on the Western side) rarely exercised those rights and privileges, but they were there.

And what's wrong with foreigners showing a little respect to the "Bullen"? God knows they don't get it from Germans.

[AJMB]

What's so wrong about reciprocity? The Brazilian government is entitled to act in defence of itself and it's citizens. Whether they are defending a concept as ephemeral as national honor or not is irrelevant. This guy got pissed because he's an American, dammit! Fuck him! When in Rome, you do as the Romans.