Hitler. Now More Than Ever.

If you're interested in the two anti-Bush ads featuring Hitler that were posted briefly to Moveon.org as part of that group's efforts to unseat George W., you can check out the scripts over at the Republican National Committee site. And here's a link to one of the ads (requires Quicktime and takes a while to start, even on a fast hookup).

Those ads are contemptible--and would have been hugely ineffective in persuading anyone. They're so ludicrous and tone deaf, if J. Edgar Hoover was still running the FBI or Nixon in the White House, you'd almost suspect them of being plants.

The ads were created in response to a contest organized by Moveon.org. For a rundown about the contest that generated the ads, and to see the finalists actually selected by Moveon.org, go here. And for a list of celebrity judges who will decide the winner go here.

Comments

[beanie]

R.C.: You took the words out of my mouth.

Aaron: What?

[rst]

Why don't they try a Bush = Charlemange ad?

Because most Americans don't know who Charlemagne is. I'd wager that most Americans don't even know who Hitler is, just that he was a bad, bad man whom we've made into a meterstick to measure world rulers. That's the way to do it, compare world leaders of questionable character to a paranoid schizophrenic with severe mommy issues and a bitter taste from Versailles. Fucking idiots.

[Lonewacko: I Blogged Across Am]

I summarized the ads with comments here.

"Imagine" is the funniest of them all. Is that Marion Ross?

"Desktop" at least is attention-getting with its music and visual rhythm. However, 99% of Americans will be left scratching their heads and wondering why that desktop doesn't look like the one on their normal computers.

[Dan]

I think Aaron's point is that Bush=Hitler. A bold and original line of thinking, in my opinion. Strange that nobody's thought to make the comparison before.

Anyway -- does anyone else find it amusing that left-wing sites have been accusing the Republicans of trying to "censor" these ads... and now the RNC is hosting them? Trust me, guys, Bush supporters want to make sure *everybody* sees what kind of people MoveOn attracts.

Personally, I saw "lies fuel fear... fear fuels aggression" and burst out laughing -- Yoda flashbacks.

[Andy D.]

Here's an question... knowing what you know about the judges, which ad will win?

My prediction is "Hood Robbin'". If not that, then either "Imagine" or "WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN?".

[Andy D.]

Here's a question... knowing what you know about the judges, which ad will win?

My prediction is "Hood Robbin'". If not that, then either "Imagine" or "WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN?".

[Andy D.]

Sorry, I guess trying to edit after I'd hit the send button was a bad idea.

[Lonewacko]

Ueber-cutie Janeane Garofalo and the rest might be nuts politically speaking, but I'm assuming they're media professionals.

No one would choose "Imagine" for anything besides a joke, and the same with "Hood Robbin." "In my country" isn't going to play in Peoria or even St. Louis.

"Desktop" is catchy, "What are we teaching our children" when redone professionally with middle rather than upper-middle class people might work, and "Child's Pay" and "Polygraph" might work in their current form.

BTW, I just got an email from MoveOn (please don't tell them I penetrated their ranks.)

You can go to this URL to report press smears against MoveOn:

http://moveon.org/smear/?id=2234-3046324-k01Adzvuqf8wENKOPShrBA

They're also suggesting a letter writing campaign in support of the finalists.

[fyodor]

There are stupid people of all political persuasions. But MoveOn disavows the Bush=Hitler ads and claim they were but two among over a thousand submissions that appeared on the website and received low ratings by their voting membership. So whatever other stupidities MoveOn or other leftists may be guilty of, it may not be fair to associate MoveOn with the Hitler ads (I say "may not" cause I haven't investigated their claims, but I think it's worth knowing their side of the story).

[StMack]

fyodor

If they truly disavow the Bush=Hitler ads they would never have made it to the site for public view. Their disavowal comes a little too late to be more than CYA spin.

[chthus]

fyodor,

Moveon had rules that said inappropriate or offense ads wouldn't be allowed. That these two made it into the voting means that they were deemed neither offensive or inappropriate. Although, now the story is that, 'Mr. Boyd conceded that the advertisements were "in poor taste," and said he "deeply regretted" that they had "slipped through."'

Mr. Boyd is the founder of Moveon.org and this competition.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/06/politics/campaigns/06ADS.html?ei=5062&en=94c994412ebde935&ex=1073970000&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=print&position=

[Aaron]

don't forget the stereotyping of economically successful minorities, the violations of arms control treaties, and the death camps for Jews, gays, gypsies, and others.

The Reich wasn't built in a day. Given the times, maybe they have to move a little slower. Collect some fingerprints, maybe do some spying on the populous first. Run a spit test by holding an unsavory citizen without due process to see how the public reacts... Then again, why bother with killing the politically powerless when you can just mortgage the future and pass "tax relief" that just funnels all the money into your cronie's pockets without all that messy gassing business? The arms control treaties are debatable. We'll see how the tactical nukes thing plays out.

The point is that he's using the same fear mongering tactics to maintain political momentum for policies that are bad for the country in the long haul. Just because he hasn't committed any atrocities-locally-yet, doesn't make the point entirely invalid.

[GoonFood]

Wow, I simply can't take anything seriously that has Michael Moore as an active part. I'm sorry, I can agree to disagree with liberals in general, but that guy just takes emotional reaction and ignorance to the next level. He simply makes everything he touches into a big joke.

[fyodor]

"That these two made it into the voting means that they were deemed neither offensive or inappropriate"

Okay, but it's still hardly an endorsement of the ads. Are you really against anyone ever being "offensive or inappropriate?"

[chthus]

Not at all, offensiveness is a wonderful thing at times, but you must be willing to deal with the fallout. If one wishes to belittle the holocaust by making direct comparisons between Bush/Patriot Act and Hitler/Concentration camps, one shouldn't hide behind "we weren't condoning" and "it just slipped through. One should have the balls to respond to criticism with, "aw fuck em, they're just jews, quit your bitching."

Moveon lacks this willingness to be completely offensive, and would rather just be a little offensive and then not claim any association. If you slice and eat a piece of the pretty cake, you no longer have the whole pretty cake.

An interesting tangent, not even a decade ago, the charge of anti-semitism was more often than not a charge heaped on the right, now it's the left. The change itself is not that amazing, but the relative quickness is. I know a number of jews who used to be moderately to heavily involved in activism for causes on the left, who are more and more choosing to stay at home. One in particular told me this was the direct result of having to deal with not one but three separate, "oops, I didn't know there was a jew in the room" moments while at planning meetings.

[Citizen]

Aaron, so does that give someone justification to commence with Dean = Stalin cracks, because sure he starts with taxing to "improve education" but soon he starts in with the state-directed occupational training, then full blown Red Communist CCCUSA, then Howard "the Butcher of Montpelier" Dean cranks up the train schedules of Jews to Montana. I mean, it's just fun and games until they start seizing religous symbols from places of business. WTF? Do you really buy that tripe?

Listen, there are no black helicopters. No jack-booted thugs. No resurrected 17th century Inquisitors. Maybe I'm turning a blind eye, but you're gonna give yourself a heart attack before you turn 25 if you keep believing everything the Anti-Man tells you.

[joe]

That's a wicked cool Dan Rather reference.

Courage.

[fyodor]

chthus,

Sure, the "mistakes were made" type response was lacking, but please note again my original disclaimer, "whatever other stupidities MoveOn or other leftists may be guilty of...." My only point is that the implication that MoveOn advocates the Bush=Hitler POV or lacks an understanding of how ineffective they would be is unfounded based simply on these ads' appearance on the website.

[Matthew Cromer]

OK, they took them down.

Where can I still see them???

[Andrew]

If libertarians are at all smug about move.on's discomfort...does that mean it is time to lay off (dare I say, retract) some of the calumny re Ashcroft?

What is dismaying to me is the phony bravado of it. It is such an act-- like some post-collegiate frat doing gangsta in a Michelob bar ("I don't take shit from anybody!")
Yes, the Patriot Act is a terrifying blow to human liberty, BUT...I-- the true-blue libertarian-- have the guts to stand up to it.

Bullshit! I claim nothing for myself-- I would not be so careless about what I say in Mexico City, much less Damascus or Cairo (hell...Frankfurt or Marseilles).

To compare Bush to Hitler, is to compare yourself to Dietrich Bonhoffer, or Anna Akhmatova. Who would dare presume such courage? Ruthless, Barton, Kevin? Anybody?

I don't know how I would measure up, if any of my convictions were ever tested against real risks and real consequences. In North America, I am unlikely to ever find out.

[Dan]

Okay, but it's still hardly an endorsement of the ads. Are you really against anyone ever being "offensive or inappropriate?"

The point isn't that the ads were offensive and inappropriate. After all, if Bush had $10 for every time some lefty compared him to Hitler he could have just BOUGHT Iraq; the ads are nothing new. The point is that MoveOn's screeners didn't think that comparing Bush to Hitler is offensive or inappropriate, and this provides key insight into what kind of people work for MoveOn.

Ever see the Civil Rights documentary "Eyes on the Prize"? There's a great bit of archival news footage in it where some "respectable" white preacher is explaining why he opposes desegregation for purely Bible-based reasons. Then he accidentally refers to Martin Luther King as "Martin Luther Coon" before quickly correcting himself and using the right name. Oopsie! So much for the respectable facade. 🙂

I think MoveOn just made a similar mistake.

[JD]

OK, I just watched all the finalists. First thought: wow, the MoveOn types have really toxic levels of self-righteousness in their blood. They really think that nobody but them has any idea what's happening. No wonder they're so angry all the time: this stuff is so obvious to them and yet they can't seem to wake up anybody. No surprises there, I guess.

A few were pretty good, like "Child's Pay" and "My Country". "Desktop" was pretty clever, and "Bush's Repair Shop" was OK. Most of the rest were pretty lame. I notice the repeated theme of "Bush is ripping off widdle kiddies and giving their money to EVIL KKKORPORATIONS!" Personally, I don't feel any more ripped off than I did during the last administration, and I just don't get the whole anti-corporation thing, I guess. "Corporation" seems to be their shorthand for "evil dudes". That's really the overarching problem: these ads are basically made for people who already think the same way the creators do.

[Phil]

Yeah, it's all fun and games and wildly disperportionate comparisons until a symbolic building is set on fire, blame is placed on outside boogie man and the authorities play on the sheeple's fear to decisively push through an agenda that involves invading another country.

I, for one, can hardly sit still waiting to move into my spacious new Lebensraum in the Middle East or one of the 'Stans. It'll be so scenic and comfortable.

[Jean Bart]

I believe someone needs to come up with a new trope.

[dude]

I don't even particularly like Dubya but the Bush = Hitler thing is so stupid I don't understand what they're hoping to accomplish. Hmm. Maybe the republicans have agent provacateurs thinking up this stuff to make the dems look bad.

(Sort of like Michael Savage Wiener and Ann Coulter are actually leftists pretending to be right-wingers to discredit the conservative cause . . . ok, probably not).

[Kevin Carson]

I think we need an equivalent of Godwin's law that applies to Stalin references. When Horowitz says "Progressives" or "the Left" were responsible for Stalin's Great Purge, for example, such a law should be invoked.

[mak_nas]

lol -- there are so few effective ones!

why, oh why can't the opposition come up with a) a decent candidate, b) a convincing set of issues and c) sensible core supporters who aren't essentially an overamplified religious mob?

[Andy D.]

I don't think the Hitler ad thing is a big deal at all; hell, comparing one's opposition to Hitler is so common there's Godwin's Law for it. Maybe I've just become desensitized to Hitler references... I hear about jack-booted thugs all the time in Libertarian circles. Certainly the ads are in poor taste, but who among us has never pulled the Hitler card? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Trying to shut up this moveon.org organization simply because you don't like the free speech they're producing.... you bunch of Nazis!

[Andy D.]

And have you checked out the nominees at moveon.org? Most of the ads are fairly well done, but most of them also harp on things that are either harping on issues from an ideological perspective that I don't care for or are of questionable truth.

My favorite of the lot is "In My Country", though the ending 'shocker' is telegraphed and the acting isn't very good. "Wake up America" is the worst. Not because of bad politics, but because it's more annoying than those annoying radio ads. Snooze alarms are NOT funny!

[dubya]

Oh yeah, Aaron, who needs death camps when you can have tax cuts instead? They're just the same! BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

[David]

Child's Pay sums it up pretty well for me.

[erf]

I imagine we'd have seen similar stuff if someone had sponsored a rightwing version of this in 1995 with CLinton and Hitler comparisons.

[Hitler]

I imagine we'd have seen similar stuff if someone had sponsored a antinazi version of this in the 30's with Hitler and Hitler comparisons.

[rst]

Bush = Hitler thing is so stupid I don't understand what they're hoping to accomplish.

It's branding, an attempt to associate the two at the polls. There doesn't have to be any validity to it; the comparison is designed to create a subconscious aversion to Bush.

[Trey]

I was surprised at how good a few of these actually were. My favorite, "Child's Pay", would apply equally well to Bush and Democrat X.

The "Hitler" ad should have used Stalin instead, that would have been interesting coming from the Left. Or maybe they could have used Lincoln; he was a Republican too, you know!

[Ron Hardin]

Why don't they try a Bush = Charlemange ad? Probably there's a useable downside to everybody.

[Aaron]

re: comparisons to Hitler

Yeah, it's all fun and games and wildly disperportionate comparisons until a symbolic building is set on fire, blame is placed on outside boogie man and the authorities play on the sheeple's fear to decisively push through an agenda that involves invading another country.

[R. C. Dean]

Aaron - don't forget the stereotyping of economically successful minorities, the violations of arms control treaties, and the death camps for Jews, gays, gypsies, and others.

Yeah, the parallels just don't stop coming, do they.

[Jim Treacher]

Plus, Bush can't paint.

[Douglas Fletcher]

Bush is Hitler. In fact, I've been hiding a fugitive Jewish family in my attic since he took office.

[HH]

Oh good Lord... if Hood Robbin is what I think it is, these people truly are even more lazy-assed than I thought. For the last time people, Robin Hood didn't steal from the rich, he stole from the government.

[HH]

Janeane (who hasn't been cute or funny in years) of course would have probably voted these ads 1st and 2nd place after co-hosting a CNN show where she referred to the Bush admin. as the "43rd Reich."

[cdunlea]

Let's see...comes into power without popular vote or mandate, repudiates arms treaties, uses fear to create a state of emergency, passes legislation restricting civil rights and access to the courts, lies to promote wars of revenge, allows the national police force to detain citizens without showing cause and creates a concentration camp solely under military jurisdiction...and don't forget creating a national snitch program (TIPS)and using riot police to tear gas peaceful demonstrations.

Nah, it's all just a coincidence...

[Jim Treacher]

And do you ever see Bush and Hitler in the same room together? Think about it.

[LeftLIbertarian General]

I agree with Kevin. The whole Stalin thing has been discussed to death. All we hear from the Left all the time is about the starvations, and Gulags and purges. Look, the Left admitted there were a few murders. Let it go. End of discussion.

No appologists for Stalin on the Left, despite what that Nazi David Horowitz says. The neocon brownshirts like Horowitz aside, the discussion is over: Stalin wasn't that bad (compared to Hilter), he was just doing his best against capitalist traitors.

So let it go. End of discussion. Never mention STalin again.

[EvilBush]

Take the name Bush and remove the "B" "U" and "S" and add in a "I" "T" "L" "E and "R."

What does that spell, you dirty neocons?

HITLER

How do you explain that cooinkidink?

[fyodor]

cdunlea,

Yeah, and they both wipe their ass when they shit too. Y'know, you make some good points about why we should be unhappy with Bush as president. But this =Hitler thing is asinine and only obscures those good points.

[Aaron]

Come on guys, it was a troll. I've been on the net long enough to know comparisons Hitler always undermines your position. There are big differences between Bush and Hitler, for instance, Hitler was elected.

[dhex]

what confuses me about the bush = hitler thing (helpfully stenciled all over my neighborhood by well-meaning, semi-retarted art students) is that people think bush actually has the balls to be a nazi. nazis were hard and snappy dressers to boot. at best, bush would have been a nazi sympathizer...

and yeah, ms. garafalo is super hot. though she's rapidly approaching milf territory.

[Aaron]

bush would have been a nazi sympathizer...

You have the right idea, just the wrong generation. I think it would be fair to suggest that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree though.

[Mona]

Kevin writes: "When Horowitz says "Progressives" or "the Left" were responsible for Stalin's Great Purge, for example, such a law should be invoked."

He does not say they were responsible per se; rather, he correctly notes that -- with very few exceptions -- they were silent, or worse, were apologists who denied and wrote of Stalin with a hagiographer's pen. (Had they not done these things, Stalin might have been inhibited from some of his more barbaric practices.) Former Marxist and historian, Eugene Genovesee, has publicly admitted that he and his comrades from yesteryear have a disturbing number of corpses to their credit. He's right.

Certainly, they were silent even as their own, fellow American Marxists were fed to Stalin's purge machine. See the new book, "In Denial: Historians, Communism & Espionage," by Haynes and Klehr. They discuss the American Communist Party memebers whom Stalin killed -- to no known protest by their yankee comrades -- and list the names of the ignored murder victims in an appendix. In addition to the sins of the Marxist and Far Left past, many of the current crop in academia are bizarrely unwilling to accept what the evidence now makes clear. Hiss and the Rosenbergs did it, and so did a whole shitload more than had been previously suspected-- American Marxists spied for Stalin, and a lot of their leftist associates and sympathizers gave them defense and cover.

[AJMB]

Wacko(strangely appropriate): Janeane Garofalo is an Uber-Cutie? When did your medicinal MJ kick in?

[dj of raleigh]

"Move On" will get publicity and hits on the remaining 30 second info clips out of this.

The RNC will gain some higher moral ground against the liberals who pride themselves as the moral ones.

The public gets another kind of 30 second informative glimpse
of how full of blind hate the liberal peaceniks are,and
how exploitive the conservative warmongers are.

I just hope people don't really vote on the basis of such 30 second information.

[Rebecca]

Cdunlea -

"comes into power without popular vote or mandate"

Given that several presidents have come to office with a majority in the electoral college but not the popular vote, the complaint about stealing the election is rather old. In the 1960 election, Kennedy got the electoral majority, though Nixon got the popular vote. I figure that once one side concedes the election, the person in office is the person with the job and the responsibility. Period.

"uses fear to create a state of emergency"

Bush did not invent the fear. It was real, the result of horrific attacks, an act of war by the al-Qaeda. That is justified fear and uncertainty. Desperate times call for desperate measures sometimes. And I doubt the Patriot Act will stay in effect forever, unless Dems get into power and realize they like the access such a law gives them. (Because only they can be trusted with such power, don'tcha know.)

"lies to promote wars of revenge"

If you're talking about Afghanistan, no, it was not a war of revenge but a just war. Read "Just War Against Terror" by Jean Bethke Elshtain. If you're talking about Iraq, people can disagree on these things, but I consider the Iraq war a justified use of force. I'm not so convinced by the WMD argument, as I am by the fact that Saddam had not honored the conditions of the peace treaty he signed in 1991, that sanctions and inspections were not effective in enforcing the treaty, and that the Iraqi people had suffered in ways I cannot even begin to imagine. I would call those, justifications.

"creates a concentration camp solely under military jurisdiction"

Concentration camp is a place where undesirables are crammed into subhuman living conditions and forced to work until they drop dead. The detainees in Guantanamo Bay are not being forced to labor, they have rights to practice their religion, and they have been fed better than any concentration camp prisoner. Additionally, they are not citizens, and were detained for reasons of national security. I'm inclined to support this action.

"allows the national police force to detain citizens without showing cause"

I would like a list of the cases to which you are referring. Of the cases I have heard of relating to citizens arrested for terror-related activities, local police and the FBI have stated why the citizens were being held, and those arrested have had recourse to lawyers, just as any other citizen does. So provide your evidence.

"creating a national snitch program (TIPS)"

Well, it's related to terrorism activities, suspicious activities related to terrorism and the like. This is not the witchhunt some would have you believe is going on. I do not live in fear. I am no more suspicious of my neighbors than I was before (and I wasn't before, anyway). However, it provides a way for people to report something that otherwise they wouldn't know how to report. Just like there are national hotlines for suicide, or runaway children, or domestic abuse - it gives people a place to turn to. I don't have any sense that the government is encouraging me to spy on my neighbors or "show my patriotism" by turning in suspects. This isn't McCarthyism.

"using riot police to tear gas peaceful demonstrations"

Are you talking about peaceful demonstrations, or demonstrations in the name of peace? There's a difference. We're not living in Alabama in the 60s. Dozens - hundreds - of demonstrations have been held across the country during the past three years, and the times when police make an error in judgment are strikingly few. Peace demonstrations can often get out of hand, with marchers intentionally provoking the police to violence so they can then claim moral superiority and status as a victim of a ruthless police state. I don't buy it. If the police behave inappropriately, they should be censured. But using tear gas on a peaceful demonstration? I haven't heard of that being anywhere near the norm.

So I think you are seeing similarities where none exist, focusing on some some news reports to the exclusion of mountains of other data.

[Rebecca]

And now, after having seen the finalists, I can say that some of them were well done, and the "Child's Pay" ad is one I can agree with. But the repeated argument that Bush's tax cuts benefitted the rich and hurt the poor: well, in a way, yes. Given that the rich pay more than 50% of their income in taxes, and that they foot the bill for most of our government's budget, then any tax cut will benefit the rich. They would also get more back from a tax cut than a poorer person, simply because they put more in.

Then there's "Bankrupt", which claims that America is now bankrupt of any good with Bush at the helm - which makes all of us "victims" I guess you could say, even though there are about 300 million Americans and that's a lot of raw human potential - and one of the things it says is "9,000 in human lives". Well, consider: most of those lives were enemy lives, i.e. soldiers in the Iraqi army. That's the nature of war. 490-odd dead Americans - although terrible on the individual scale - needs to be compared to other military activities, and in that case, it's a staggeringly *low* number of casualties in a war.

Also, the "Gone in 30 Seconds" claim that more jobs have been lost in the past 3 years than since the Great Depression - that's not looking at job creation, either. Jobs are always lost in developing economies: just as blacksmiths, farriers, milkmen, and haberdashers are in far lower demand today than they were 150 years ago. But all those people found news jobs. It's not like people who lost jobs will never find new ones.

So, yeah, there's a lot of slanted statistics and claims here, but that's what people do in political commercials.

[Alex]

Vis a vis the bush/hitler thing, I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush family has had cozy relationships with the U.S.'s enemies for three generations: Bush/Bin Laden, George Herbert Walker Bush/Iranians (Iran-Contra), Prescott Bush/Nazis. Given their pathetic treasonous past I would be amazed if they didn't betray this country.
Shocked I tell you.

[Alex]

Vis a vis the bush/hitler thing, I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush family has had cozy relationships with the U.S.'s enemies for three generations: Bush/Bin Laden, George Herbert Walker Bush/Iranians (Iran-Contra), Prescott Bush/Nazis. Given their pathetic treasonous past I would be amazed if they didn't betray this country.
Shocked I tell you.

[Alex]

Vis a vis the bush/hitler thing, I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush family has had cozy relationships with the U.S.'s enemies for three generations: Bush/Bin Laden, George Herbert Walker Bush/Iranians (Iran-Contra), Prescott Bush/Nazis. Given their pathetic treasonous past I would be amazed if they didn't betray this country.
Shocked I tell you.

[Alex]

Vis a vis the bush/hitler thing, I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush family has had cozy relationships with the U.S.'s enemies for three generations: Bush/Bin Laden, George Herbert Walker Bush/Iranians (Iran-Contra), Prescott Bush/Nazis. Given their pathetic treasonous past I would be amazed if they didn't betray this country.
Shocked I tell you.

[Alex]

Vis a vis the bush/hitler thing, I thought it was common knowledge that the Bush family has had cozy relationships with the U.S.'s enemies for three generations: Bush/Bin Laden, George Herbert Walker Bush/Iranians (Iran-Contra), Prescott Bush/Nazis. Given their pathetic treasonous past I would be amazed if they didn't betray this country.
Shocked I tell you.

[Nike Dunk Low]

thanks