Don't Not Call

A federal court has ruled that the FTC exceeded its authority when it created the national telemarketing Do Not Call list. The telemarketers are giddy, but it seems pretty likely that Congress will just move to explicitly approve a grant of power to create such a list.

Comments

[Brad S]

Chambers Page for
The Honorable Lee R. West
Senior United States District Judge
Western District of Oklahoma

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Courthouse
200 N.W. Fourth St. Oklahoma City, OK 73102
Rm 3001, Courtroom 303, Third Floor
Chambers Telephone: [phone]
Chambers Facsimile: 405-609-5151

Give Judge West a call. See if he's interested in saving money on long distance...

[Madog]

COngress obviously has power to regulate telemarketing between states, but do they really have the power to regulate it within states?

[Andrew Lynch]

Ping. Pong.
Check, your move. No, check, YOUR move.

At first I was thrilled to hear about this, but my inner cynic realizes it's just the merry-go-round of checks and balances at work. Would have been more meaningful if, instead of on a technicality, the district court had bitch slapped this ridiculous "Please Don't Annoy Me" legislation on constitutional grounds (if such grounds can be argued).

Oh, gotta go, the phone's ringing.

[dhex]

it's too bad the lists were so efficient. i haven't had a telemarketer call in...3 years now?

[Russ]

On a related note, Gov. Gray Davis has signed into law a bill that would hit e-mail spammers with a $1000 fine for every piece of unsolicited email originating from or received in the state of California. The law is to take effect on Jan 1st 2004.

Not only is the sender of the spam liable, so is the producer of the good or service being advertised, regardless of their location.

The best part is, while California deals with the costs, the rest of us get to enjoy the benefits.

[Gene 6-Pack]

The Judge is confused. Your right of free speach does not trump my right to not listen.

[Gene 6-Pack]

The Judge is confused. Your right of free speach does not trump my right to not listen.

[Amy Alkon]

You can't use a line I pay for to market your worthless crap. You can, however, rent my attention and my phone line. I'm posting prices to tele-harrass me at home on my Web site (http://www.advicegoddess.com/archives/000202.html) and they start and $3,000. Hey, telemarketers, operators (with visions of first class travel and accomodations in Paris) are standing by, waiting for your call. I'm wondering if I can sue telemarketers for the amount of the posted prices. Any litigators out there with the answer?

Oh, in case you lost the phone number of the telemarketing association Dave Barry printed in his column, it's:
877-779-3974

I'm sure they'd be very happy to hear from you...and best of all, since it's a toll free number they'll be paying for your call!

[Skip Oliva]

Gene, the judge was not ruling on a freedom of speech issue. He only considered whether Congress gave the FTC power to create a Do Not Call registry. There's nothing in the ruling that prevents Congress from passing such a law, only that the FTC can't infer such a power just to make themselves more powerful.

[matt]

Why do so many have faith that government can solve this supposed problem? Get a damn caller id, answering machine, or don't answer the phone if you don't want to.

[DANEgerus]

One Judge said 'NO' to the 50,000,000 Americans' who signed up... so...

Don't... remember what happened when Dave Barry gave out the National Telemarketers phone number and they got so many calls at dinner they had to change their number...

Don't... notice that the first commenter Dave Barry'd the judge providing his name, phone and fax...

Do... make check to make sure that's the right guy and not just an unlucky traffic court official that fined Brad S.

Don't... make use of those numbers in any other way...

Don't... especially during dinner.

[Jeff Clothier]

At first I was all for this list. Then it struck me that what is really happening is that the Feds are developing yet another database filled with people's personal information, as all one needs is a reverse directory (I have one thanks to a little Mac OSX program called Watson) to turn a list of blind phone numbers into detailed personal dossiers.

Additionally, the Feds are essentially pre-qualifying customers for the telemarketing firms at taxpayers' expense. Sales companies spend bajillions weeding out "no's" from "yes's." Now we've done it for them.

Once again the road to hell is paved with good governmental intentions.

[Anonymous]

was about to take my wife to the emergency room.. but I had to call a taxi. Telemarketter called, while my wife was screaming in pain.

[StMack]

If I'm feeling charitable enough to not say something rudely sacrastic and hang up the phone, I hand it over to my eight-year-old daughter who just loves to talk. Those people don't usually call back.

[John Thacker]

As expected, the House just quickly passed a law authorizing the registry, and the Senate will follow. The White House is encouraging it.

Anyone of libertarian convictions should applaud a judge requiring that executive branch agencies actually have explicit Congressional permission for many of their actions. Such requirements would cut down on lots of governmental excess, or at least make it more plainly visible, with public votes and repercussions.. (What, Congress could hardly have the time to explicitly authorize much of what the government does? Good, then don't let the government do it.)

[Stmack]

Let us hope they were smart enough to write the legislation in such a way that those of who registered don't have to do so again.

[Kevin Carson]

Jeff Clothier,

Aha--"prequalifying customers"--brilliant observation! I wish I'd thought of it first.

[Anonymous]

Wow, that must have cost you 4 seconds.

[Ayatollah Usoe]

The obvious solution is to so abuse the telemarketers that they will quit their jobs. Do it for your fellow citizens. Impose costs on the system until it is no longer profitable. How? Ask him what kind of undies he's wearing. Offer to buy his long distance service if he will by your replacement vinyl siding. Agree to buy all the life insurance he's selling and then tell him your only 13 years old. Ignore what he's talking about and tell him about your grandchildren.

[JEFF]

What the F is this place - Libertarians for Government action?

Whoda thunk telemarketers could bring libbys and statists together?

Many of you rightly rail endlessly on this blog about government abuse of power and expanding statism - UNTIL (apparently) such statism comes to rescue YOU from getting a few annoying calls you already have all the PERSONAL means to avoid getting anyway.

nice.

[fredH]

I've dealt with this problem by simply never answering my phone at home and letting my machine take all the messages. An initial problem that I had with this approach was that the vermin would repeatedly call back trying to reach me live. I knew this because I would get multiple hiss-click-hiss sounds indicating that the bastards had stayed on the line long enough to trigger the machine, but didn't leave a message. I dealt with this by changing my answering machine message to say that I never answered the phone live so that their attempts to reach me were futile. Since then, I've had no problems.

I think harrassing telemarketers is a wonderful idea, and if I had the time I'd do it. I remember reading somewhere recently the some comic (I think his name is Tom Mabe) has actually released a recording of some pranks of this type. One example was answering the phone during Christmas season with a tape of carolers snging in the background, asking the telemarketer to hold while he answered the door, playing a tape of the sound of gunfire and horrified screams, and returning to the phone to ask the telemarketer what he wants.

The thing that annoys me the most is the whiny crap we hear from telemarketers that they are only trying to make a living. I'm sure that concentration camp guards and professional torturers also use this excuse.

[joe]

Off topic, but...

If you open junk mail, you will discover a postage-paid, self adressed envelope. I take this out, fold the rest of the mailing into a shape that fits the return envelope, and put it back in the mail box. There are many advantages to this...

The people who made the mess have to pay to clean it up. This is important to me, since my condo pays for trash disposal by volume. (I believe junk mailers are required by law to recycle, though probably not in the parasite state of Delaware.)

The poor, oppressed shmucks who work for them don't get dumped on, but in fact get more work.

The people who sent me the junk in the first place have to pay for postage, which is $.73 or thereabouts for the no-postage-required envelopes they use.

The postal service gets to bill the junk mailer for the transaction.

If enough people do this, unsolicited mailings will cease to be economically viable.

[Kevin Carson]

Ayatollah Usoe,

I don't use abusive language to telemarketers if they're polite enough to give up after the first "not interested." I figure it's just some poor schmuck who got stuck with a lousy job.

But sometimes I have a little fun with them. Like when they ask if I own my own home and what it's made of, I say, "Yes, it's made from scrap lumber and tar-paper."

And when they refuse to take "no" for an answer, the gloves come off. The worst one I ever dealt with was a woman selling some kind of repackaged long-distance service, kind of like a telecom version of Enron. Every time I said "I'm not interested," she said "That's fine, sir, but..." and then went right back to her script. The third time she said "That's fine, sir," I yelled at the top of my lungs, "No, it's NOT fine. I've just told you three times now I'm not interested, and yet you're still talking. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU??!!!!"

[Andrew Lynch]

matt, I'm with you 100 percent. Government, don't legislate annoyances. It's not your job. People of America, just hang up the phone.

Argument: I don't like my dinner interrupted.

Rebuttal: Nobody made you answer the phone while you were eating.

Complication: But my mother is on her deathbed, so I have to answer the phone.

Complicated rebuttal: So what does that have to do with Congressional legislation?

[Kevin Carson]

Madog,

I'd say they most certainly don't, if you interpret the Commerce clause in terms of the original understanding. But we've got a court that said, once upon a time, that a guy who grew wheat purely for his own consumption was "indirectly" affecting interstate commerce, and was therefore subject to federal regulations. Until we have a populace that actually cares about delegated and reserved powers, the Constitution's not worth the paper it's written on.

Amy Alkon,

How's soliciting over the phone any different from knocking on people's front door to see if they want their grass cut or their house number painted on the curb? I used to make money that way. Regulating phone solicitation and spam, I think, is analogous to local restrictions on door to door solicitation. What we need, instead, is the electronic equivalent of a "no trespassing" or "no soliciting" sign.

I much prefer to let free people and free technology work out solutions to the problem without any "help" from the Nanny State. You can be pretty sure that any "solution" they devise will be another illustration of the law of unintended consequences.

[dave]

My wife teaches Blind and visually handicapped kids. Telemarketing is one of the few viable jobs for some of these folks who don't want to be on some sort of government subsidy. Thus I am no longer rude to those that I do happen to answer. I just ask to be removed from their list and then hang up.

[Andrew Lynch]

joe, I've got to tell you, that's the most brilliant tactic I've heard in a long time. Now, I'm looking forward to the next postage-paid return envelope I see so I can send crap back to the purveyors of it. Bravo!

[joe]

The only problem is, the junk mailers will occasionally assume you are responding to their offer, and call to inform you that you forgot to enter your SSN. It's rare, though.

[Ira Weatheral]

As a tip, when I was a telemarketer in college we filled a form out for most calls, and anyone who was verbally abusive was put on a special list so as not to be contacted again. Anyone who responded with a polite "No, thank you" was marked to be called back in a few months.

[Tim Tanner]

Years ago, the Wall Street Journal ran an article about how someone sent back a bunch of iron bars, using the postage paid 'envelope' sent in some junk mail. The company in question did pay the postage, which was a lot more than 73 cents, even then!

As long as junk mail, and junk e-mail is 'cheap' we'll continue to get it - drive up the cost and you drive the junk mailers out of business,

Tim

[Raymond&Darlene Barriger]

AUTHOR: Raymond&Darlene Barriger
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DATE: 06/10/2004 05:53:38

[Raymond&Darlene Barriger]

AUTHOR: Raymond&Darlene Barriger
EMAIL: [e-mail]
IP: 12.33.69.118
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DATE: 06/10/2004 05:53:50

[Raymond&Darlene Barriger]

AUTHOR: Raymond&Darlene Barriger
EMAIL: [e-mail]
IP: 12.33.69.118
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DATE: 06/10/2004 05:55:03

[Raymond&Darlene Barriger]

AUTHOR: Raymond&Darlene Barriger
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DATE: 06/10/2004 05:55:12

[Kim Stan]

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DATE: 01/20/2004 12:25:35
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