All Hail Gen. McClark

The WashPost had an online chat today with reporter Vernon Loeb about Gen. Wesley K. Clark, just about the least inspiring military man to stump for president since good ol' Gen. George McClellan took his best shot against Honest Abe. Even given the weakness of the Democratic field (which is not to suggest that the GOP has anything going for it), I can't imagine that the general will get very far at all.

While the Post chat is wide-ranging and revealing, it regrettably stops short of listing Wes' favorite band, food, soft drink, and color. Here's the opening exchange about this "fascinating" man:

Vernon Loeb: Greetings everybody. Today's topic: Wesley K. Clark. He is a fascinating man, and it will be fascinating to see how he does as a presidential candidate.

Portland, Ore.: Your personality profile of Clark and the comments of those who don't like him or trust him reads like the personality of any man with enough ego and ambition to presume he could be President of th United States. Wouldn't anybody that ambitious rub people the wrong way?

washingtonpost.com: A Fast Climber Who Has Made Some Enemies (Post, Sept. 17)

Vernon Loeb: Yes, you're absolutely right. Similar stories are most likely told about everyone in the field. I think Clark's detractors would say that he's even more ambitious and manipulative than your typical ambitious and manipulative Washington power player. And I think Clark's success as a candidate could well be determined by whether his campaign can establish a sense of steadiness and control, or whether his intense and emotional personality will lead to a political flame out, in which critics attack, and Clark attacks back, and things quickly get out of control and he loses credibility.

Comments

[joe]

"or whether his intense and emotional personality will lead to a political flame out, in which critics attack, and Clark attacks back, and things quickly get out of control and he loses credibility."

Hmmmmmm. I recall seeing some pretty creepy footage of Goldwater's running mate. Could happen.

[joe]

Clark/Stockdale!

[arjay]

Wasn't Stockdale Perot's running mate?

[joe]

Who are you? What are you doing here?

Yes, that's him.

[arjay]

Stockdale seemed to be a fairly intelligent man out of his depth in the political swim, do you think Clark might be the same?

But also it's not like Ike was a bubbly package of charisma.

[gandu]

Clark isn't going anywhere. Probably will end up as VP candidate.

[WLC]

Gawd. I remember Adm. Stockdale's "debate" and never have I felt so uncomfortable--I really felt sorry for him.

[Adam]

James Bon Stockdale (yes, his real name) graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy, served in Korea and Vietnam, was shot down by the North Vietnamese and spent 7 years in a Hanoi prison camp. He earned the Congressional Medal of Honor for organizing a prison resistance movement despite constant torture that literally mutilated his knee and shoulder, and for refusing to be released before the men under him. His will was steadied by an understanding of the anti-victim beliefs of the Stoic philosopher Epictetus, whose works he had first read in a Stanford graduate school program during the early '60s.

In all respects, a very complex man.

What a shame that he's best remembered for "Who Am I, Why Am I Here?," the self-deprecating debate line that was misconstrued as proof he was a bumbling fool.

[JDM]

I thought Stockdale pulled the whole thing off with remarkable dignity. Even though the whole charade boiled down to that twisted little monkey Perot hanging his infinitely more honorable friend out to dry in order to sabotage himself once Perot started thinking that he might actually win.

[Madog]

I thought the Ruskies burned Hitler's body and stuffed him in an unmarked grave or something. They were afraid his body and grave might become a monument that would attract his followers for generations, just like they did with Lenin.

[Don]

"One needs to also consider that Milosevich wasn't apprehended by occupying military forces; his people got sick of his crap and overthrew him, then turned him over to the Hague."

IIRC, Russian diplomacy helped bring in Milosevich. Clark had nothing to do with it--in fact, he was counterproductive given his reaction to the Russian forces.

Hitler's body was burned by the Nazis. The Russians found the remains.

[Lefty]

Woo Hoo!! How 'bout those Twins?!

[tim]

I'm sure not looking forward to a Clark presidency, and I opposed our involvement in the Serb issue, but before we get too far out in talking about what a bad general he was, let me say again:

Saddam is still at large.

Bin Laden may be alive or dead, but is certainly unaccounted for.

Ho Chi Minh died in his bed.

Ditto the Ayatollah Khomeini.

Castro is still happily puffing away.

The USAF got Ghaddafi's daughter, but not Ghaddafi.

Milosevic is rotting in a jail cell in the Netherlands.

Whatever failures Wes Clark may have endured in his military career (and as I understand it those failures were mainly political), one fact remains: In recent memory exactly two American commanders can reasonably claim to have gotten their man. One was the late "Maxatollah" Thurman, who sent Pineapple Face Noriega back to Miami in a tu-tu. And the other is Wes Clark.

Thanks, Adam, for your defense of Admiral Stockdale. One other thing worth noting: After the 1964 "Gulf of Tonkin" hoax, one American serviceman distinguished himself through his honest appraisal of the incident. That was a Navy aviator who was in the air throughout the alleged attack, and when asked whether he had seen any sign of a North Vietnames presence, replied:

"Not a one. No boats, no wakes, no ricochets [sic] off boats, no boat impacts, no torpedo wakes-nothing but black sea and American firepower."

That Navy man's name was... James B. Stockdale.

And now you know... the rest of the story.

[joe]

Great story, Tim. He certainly deserved to be treated better than to be set up by Ross Perot like that.

[Fred App]

The ironic thing about the criticism that Clark is ambitious and manipulative is that no one is more manipulative or vengeful that our current president, who treats every disagreement as a sign of disloyalty worthy of execution, and who admits he'd rather be a dictator than deal with the messiness of democracy. But because Bush is an aw shucks kinda guy who gives everyone nicknames, he never gets call on it.

[Anonymous]

Bushitler has executed people for disloyalty and is a dictator.

Vote Clark for prez, cause his supporters are calm, honest people.

[Rick Barton]

I remember the day after the military attacked Iraq, a reporter on msnbc asked Clark if he was concerned about the Iraqis hitting the US with their WMD and his reply was that he really didn't think they had any WMD and even if they did, they had no way to to get them over here anyway. I thought to myself "Oh great General, NOW you tell us"

[Jon H]

tim:

One needs to also consider that Milosevich wasn't apprehended by occupying military forces; his people got sick of his crap and overthrew him, then turned him over to the Hague.

It could have gone the other way. Other figures from the Balkans are still being shielded, and the same could have been done to Milosevic - though I think he was turned over because we threatened to withhold aid for rebuilding.

So I'm not sure Clark deserves that much credit for bagging Milosevic.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Well, I was stretching for effect, but what the hell: Ike became president even though it was the Russians who bagged Hitler.

Come to think of it, though, they never did find Hitler's body! Add him to my "Still at large" list...