That's Too Much Hell, Harry

Turns out Harry Truman's views on Jews were almost Nixonian.

Comments

[Mike w]

you should read his opinions about N******. and yet he advocated for racial equality. actions trump words yet again.

[Anonymous]

why are you afraid of the N word Mike w? just say it. negroes.

[jacob dreyer]

why be surprised? i consider him a war criminal anywya, for hiroshima/nagasaki, so this does not seem out of character.

[joe]

Is it really any surprise that a white male born in the 19th century had some antisemitism?

[dhex]

yet...

"Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes."

seems he hit that nail on the head.

[Jew]

Your blurb has it backwards. Truman's comments are substantially worse than Nixon's.

He denounces the Jews for their lack of a "sense of proportion," specifically going after the pushy Henry Morganthau. But it was the lack of sense of proportion of American Jews--that is their undue deference--that made them too timid to effectively lobby for American assistance in World War II. (At least the State Department--those cocksucking assholes should burn in hell--could have not worked to deny Jews visas as they were fleeing the holocaust.)

Nixon on the other hand merely sees Jews as an opponent--and a formidable one at that. Jews are a liberal constituency, and were back then, too. They're also a successful minority. Big deal if Nixon (and Graham) recognized their political opponents when they saw them.

[joe]

On the other hand, Nixon and Graham seemed to have worked out an entire anti-semitic cosmology, while Truman was just sort of spouting off about a particular incident, and allowed some dumb shit he absorbed through osmosis to creep in.

[Adrienne]

I just don't see why people are surprised at this "revelation". Anyone who read McCulloughh's biography of Truman knew that he felt a certain way about Jews and blacks. That didn't stop him from doing some very good things for them as President. What are we going to judge, his personal prejudices [which everyone had at the time] or his actions? I vote the latter.

[happy friday super post]

now the jew-neocons run the world.

who could've guessed it?

[Anonymous]

what's with the fucking moral equivalency and PC shit on this board? his statements are an opinion and are the product of his personal experiences, AND they strike me as very true. just because they may offend some people and rough up their delicate sensibilities doesn't mean it's not. just because the truth hurts doesn't mean it's invalid. unfortunately from time immemorial lefties and jews have been making this connection and using it to their advantage. their hypocrisy is sickening and disgusting and until we expose them for what they are and stand up to their lies and false accusations, they will prey on our sympathies like vultures and suck us dry.

[jacob dreyer]

^dude i agree moral equivalencu re. this asshole has to go out the window. but your statements imply jews are actually at fault, which impleis that jews, an ethnic-religious group, ar actually a cohesive group, parts of the same family. thats like me saying "bill clinton is an american and noam chomsky is also an american. therefore bill clinton and noam chomsky must agree with each other." but americans are not a cohesive group- "american" denotes only "person from a geographical area" just as jew denotes "person with a certain ethnic-theistic heritage." not "member of family f vermin intending to bring down the world."

so what, some neo cons are jews. so are tons of libertarian thinkers- ayn rand, to name one obvious one.

[Anonymous]

jews aren't a cohesive fucking group? don't make me laugh. that's some moral fucking equivocation, which by the way, if anything, jews fucking invented. that's like saying muslims don't read the quran. look, all I'm saying is call a duck a duck, don't fall into the fucking jew trap.

[Jesse Walker]

Is this some sort of inverted version of Godwin's Law?

[Anonymous]

you know who invented Godwin's Law?

you guessed it, the Jews.

they also invented astroturf.

[joe]

jacob,

Need a shower yet?

[jacob dreyer]

"the jew trap"?
don't give me that crap.

OK granted judaism is a religion. however re. Jews note that a Jew isn't necessarily a practitioner of Judaism (or so Tam Dalyell, English Labour MP, implied when he said "Jack Straw (and a few others) are the reason that britain is pro-israel: jews, the lot of them." now, he was saying, basically, that tons of people who consider themselevs jews, don't have anything to do with rabbis and yom kippur.

but even if we accept the falsehood that the jewish religion is practiced by all jews (which is not the case with, say, wolfowitz) lets use your islam example.

do all jews (if all jews are religious) read torah/muslims read quran? yep.
do all jews (if all jews are religious)/muslims agree completely and act as a cohesive group? nope. there are sunnites, shias, etc. both faiths ae as fragmented as the christian one is. in fact, basically the only things connecting jews in your mind seem to be
1. vague ethnic origins of possibly middle eastern, possibly european descent
2. a proximity and proclivity to power and intellectual circles
3. persecution
4. israel

so: is Tom DeLay a jew? some attempt to persecute him; he supports israel; he has a proximity & proclivity to power; he has ethnic origins of a european descent.

as 've shown, judaism does't mean religion. it doesn't necesarily mean ethnivity either- there are black jews. it doesn't mean support for israel either- there are anti-zionist jews (like Noam Chomsky.) and while it is true that jews have been persecuted, that is by no means exclsiv to them. and while jews have been well represented in euro-american intellectual circles for maybe 200 years or so,
1. in asia/africa/south america/oceania that hasn't been the case
2. in most of recorded history that hasn't been the case

so what precisely constitutes a jew to you? i read a story in the New York Review of Books by a ew who'd travelled to Poland, where there is a quite active anti-Jew lobby. he (the author) went to a bookstore, where antisemitic literature and propaganda was stacked on the bookshelves. he bought a newspaper and said hello to the owner of the store and his wife, who were sitting there glumly, he was quite shaken. ten minutes later he came backl and blurted: "look, i'm a jew. what do you have against me?" they sized him up and said: "but you do not LOOK like a jew- you are a friendly man." he said "no, i am jewish by birth and religious practice." they told him, "well, that is not really what we mean at all when we put these fliers and books about jews all about the shop. jews aren't people like ou. they're the bad guys who have ruined our economy and sold our national soul to the EU."

i worry that maybe you, too, assign the label of "jew" on whomever you dislike.
btw i am not a jew, i am an ethnic afrikaner and a religious atheist.

[jacob dreyer]

joe:
yes, ugh. i typed up that long, thoughtful post, then realised "waitaminit. i just typed all that... for someone who says crap like "don't fall into the fucking jew trap." on a regular basis, to strangers."

[Anonymous]

That comment directed at Jacob about the "shower" went over the line even for the usual anti-semetic rants I've seen on Hit & Run.

[jacob dreyer]

^what, the jew trap?

yeah.

what is it? is it like the Prent Trap, except.. y'know... for kik- Zionists?

[joe]

If you mean my comment, then you misunderstood. The implication is that dealing with antisemits makes one feel dirty.

[Anonymous]

jacob,
you need to jump in the oven!

[jacob dreyer]

^ooh, now i see what you mean.

yeha i got jeos original meaning first, but thats grimey now that you say it.

joe's a good guy though, so i don't think we need to worry.

[Anonymous]

sure joe...funny how our prejudices slip into our speech.

[joe]

Oh crap! I just got it. Damn.

[Anonymous]

jesus fuck jews want to have it both ways. jews aren't a group yet somehow they designate themselves as such, only it's not subject to classification or scrutiny. how fucking jewish is that?

[Anonymous]

Hmm, the troll's moral courage boggles the mind.

You know, I'd rather side with the Jews than any other so-called "ethnic" group on the planet. I mean, seriously, if they're running our media, banks, entertainment industry and organs of government, they seem to be wildly successful despite their long-running persecution. And Americans always like a winner, right?

On a more serious note, the question of who is and who is not a Jew currently hangs heavy on the minds of leaders of Israel.

[jacob dreyer]

"jesus fuck jews want to have it both ways. jews aren't a group yet somehow they designate themselves as such, only it's not subject to classification or scrutiny. how fucking jewish is that?"

I'm a libertarian. No, I don't think Ayn Rand preaches gospel. No, I don't neccessarily agree with LP USA. No, sometimes regulation can be OK, just not much. )(btw the last two statements don't actually describe me, just examples)

substitute jew there and you have the fact that soemtiems, definitions of concepts are ambiguous. clearly, non-jews such as yourself, eichmann, etc apply standards that are not quite religious and not quite ethnic, just stupid and pointless, on them, so one might think that jews should be allowed to do so too.

i'm a christian. no, i don't go to church. DO i believe in Jesus? well, don't know if I'd go that far. Well, my parents raised me to be a christian, but i don't really practice anymore.

(jesus fuck how jewish is THAT christian?)

[Kevin Carson]

I thought the Gaddis quote was telling. Of course Truman couldn't be an anti-semite: he was PRO-ISRAEL. So the Israel litmust test works both ways!

[Anonymous]

clearly, non-jews such as yourself

how do you know I'm not jewish? maybe I'm just a self-hating jew? clearly you are prejudiced, sir.

[Colangelo Josh]

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DATE: 01/25/2004 07:12:46
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