If You Care About Abortion Rights, Hope That Mitch McConnell Loses.

About half all U.S. voters say that abortion is "one of many important factors" they think about when deciding how to vote. About one in five voters says a candidate must share the voter's views on abortion. In its latest poll on abortion, Gallup finds that 50 percent of Americans agree abortion should be "legal only under some circumstances," 28 percent believe it should "be legal under any circumstances," and 21 percent think it should be "illegal in all circumstances."

If you live in Kentucky and care about abortion, here's what Sen. Mitch McConnell just told a Louisville audience:

"I'm proud of my record and defense of life," he said. "If I was majority leader, we'd already have had a vote on it in the Senate. It's long past time for us to join the ranks of most other civilized nations to protect children past 20 weeks in the womb."

GallupGallup

Despite virtually unchanged levels in attitudes toward the legal status of abortion since the mid-1970s, McConnell insists that there is a "growing movement" for banning abortion. As it stands, the Supreme Court has guaranteed the rights of women to have abortions in the first trimester of pregnancy.

I'm generally pro-abortion rights and I understand that the issue is a divisive one. Yet if Mitch McConnell thinks that foregrounding abortion in his tough election campaign is going to make the prospects of a GOP majority more attractive to most voters, he's an idiot. The economy, taxes, budget deficits, Obamacare—these are foremost in voters' minds. Raising social issues will serve only to spook the 75 percent of voters who already don't consider themselves Republican while doing next to nothing to goose turnout by the GOP faithful.

But hey, McConnell must know what he's doing, right? He's been in Congress for like a thousand years and has never been dumb enough to let principle get in the way of his voting record when it comes to reducing the size, scope, and spending of the government.

A number of states such as Texas and Virginia have tried to limit access abortion via the patently false argument that patients at abortion clinics have high rates of complications. That may be good political strategy but it puts mostly conservative Republicans in the compromised position of pushing regulations they would denounce in any other circumstance (it does the flip to Dems, of course, too). In Virginia, state data show just three deaths since 1974 among women receiving abortions at outpatient clinics. Watch Reason TV's "Abortion Rights vs. Women's Safety" for more:

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  • Jon Lester||

    This is also why DiFi is still in the Senate. California Republicans invariably nominate someone terrible, and all the cow has to do is remind single-issue voters that she's for "choice."

  • Brandon||

    I hope McConnell loses anyway.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    I'm generally pro-abortion rights and I understand that the issue is a divisive one. Yet if Mitch McConnell thinks that foregrounding abortion in his tough election campaign is going to make the prospects of a GOP majority more attractive to most voters, he's an idiot.

    They aren't the Stupid Party for no reason, Nick. That being said, I doubt Yertle Turtle is losing to Grimes this November. Grimes has to contend with Obama's massively unpopular war on coal in Kentucky even though she insists she's opposed to it.

    That and Rand Paul will work to save McConnell's sorry ass if the race looks too close down the stretch. Rand is a Team player like that.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Yes, the coal people hate Obama. But the Kentucky APPA-LACHI freeloaders love them some Obamacare.

  • ||

    "They aren't the Stupid Party for no reason,..."

    ^^^^This^^^

    Jesus fuck. They are up against Shreek-level stupidity and mendacity and they just can't seem to pull it off.

    I am not sure that 'stupid' really covers it.

  • MegaloMonocle||

    I believe "co-conspirator" may capture the spirit of the Republican Party more accurately.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Rand is a Team player like that.

    He'd better be. McConnel did him a solid and if he doesn't scratch his back in return he'll never get favors or access ever.

  • robc||

    Really? By doing evetything he could to beat him in his primary?

  • Winston||

    "a GOP majority more attractive to most voters"

    If Gillespie thinks this will be a good thing then he is an idiot. After all he thought Obama's election would end racial strife.

  • Michael Hihn||

    And he seems to think Ron and Rand Paul are libertarian! And that libertarian 3.0 is both extremes of fiscal AND social conservatism.

  • ||

    I bet if you repeat the same 6 lines like a poorly-scripted AI bot they'll get more and more true each time.

  • Michael Hihn||

    (yawn) Ron and Rand Paul are FAR more extreme on abortion rights than McConnell.

    Tell us the difference between banning abortions at 20 weeks vs 0 weeks. duh

    Your puppetmaster will be proud of you though.

  • Whahappan?||

    Ah, he saw right through you PM, you're just in the pay of BIG FETUS!

  • Raven Nation||

    OT derp. Comment from a review of Patterson's biography of Heinlein:

    I'm not sure [Heinlein] realized the extent to which Libertarianism leads to fascism

  • Brandon||

    Where's that from?

  • Raven Nation||

    Sorry, should have put this in my initial post. WaPo (actually a good review with mostly interesting comments). The one I quoted above just struck me for it's sad predictability.

    http://tinyurl.com/obx3bdk

  • See Double You||

    What's this capital-L libertarianism?

  • Raven Nation||

    Who knows? Based on the comment, it sounds like another person who "understands" libertarianism b/c it was explained to them by someone on their team.

  • Sevo||

    Sorry, most often the idjit read a review of Atlas Shrugged and is now an expert.

  • Brandon||

    I am absolutely sure that Heinlein knew the extent to which Libertarianism leads to fascism. The extent is zero, and Heinlein knew that.

  • robc||

    Actually, the conclusion of The Moon is a Harsh Mistress seems to be that libertarianism cant keep it away.

  • MegaloMonocle||

    Well, libertarianism with strategic city-killing weapons can, anyway.

  • Brandon||

    What other kind of libertarianism is there?

  • On The Random, Mandelbrot||

    Tactical.

  • db||

    Certainly, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls shows Heinlein's understanding that a libertarian state won't remain that way unless its citizens jealously guard its small government principles.

    In addition, it is clear that even a facility/society such as Golden Rule can be maintained as a free state possibly only through authoritarianism. Of course if that is the case it was never truly a free state.

  • Winston||

    You guys do know that saying that Republicans should support something because it is popular and approved of by the Courts is what got us in this mess in the first place?

  • Winston||

    http://www.snopes.com/politics.....social.asp

    "Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."

  • Sticky Fingaz||

    Government-provided checks are popular

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    I'm for "choice" as well. You have 20 weeks to make a goddamn choice. Or not. Given the viability of premature births, from a moral perspective, there seems to be a need for some time limit. Is 20 weeks a magic number? I don't know. However, from a practical stand point, guessing the date of conception, and thus the length of gestation, is not an exact science. What happens if a doc performs an abortion and his guesstimate was a few days off? How much more government intrusion into the abortion process is wanted?

    I can see a 20 week limit on government funded abortions. Since the government is requiring people who think abortion is murder to fund abortions, then perhaps some compromise is in order.

    I am pro choice, more because it's such a difficult subject that significant government intrusion would cause a worse mess.

    Then again, government funded abortions are their own form of government intrusion.

  • MegaloMonocle||

    Is 20 weeks a magic number?

    For viability, the number today is probably more like 22 weeks.

    Give it a few years, though.

  • Tonio||

    And forced taxpayer funding of the kiddies' edumacation, etc, is also a government intrusion.

  • Michael Hihn||

    The current constitutional standard is viability of the fetal child, typically 22-23 weeks.

    Changing that to ANY time frame would be rather dumb, per your own examples.

  • ||

    The current constitutional standard...

    That's in Article III, right?

    It's probably adjacent to the constitutional standard for marriage, retirement, medical care, and "nutritional security".

  • Michael Hihn||

    No, you freaking moron, the Judiciary decides matters of unalienable rights -- because the Constitution denies the power to deny or disparage unalienable rights at ANY level of government.

    Oh wait, you learned the Constitution from Ron Paul!

    9th Amendment, Bill of Rights
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    So pull your head our of your ass and tell us what those "other" rights are. We'll wait.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    and I understand that the issue is a divisive one

    If you understand that, then why were you so shameless in employing Lakoffian "framing" of the issue in the goddamn headline?

  • Sticky Fingaz||

    Help, I am being torn to shreds by linguists

  • Bubba Jones||

    I don't understand the outrage. The fetus is viable at 23 weeks. A 20 week cut off for elective abortions seems to be a rather libertarian position.

  • Acosmist||

    Signaling. Abortion was hot in Nick's generation.

  • Bubba Jones||

    And preterm babies weren't surviving at 23 weeks.

  • Harvard||

    And now surgery is performed at 20 weeks. And in 10 years? 20 years? How does Nick feel about being a member of a death panel and what gives him that right?

  • Michael Hihn||

    Well, Harvard, the standard is viability of the fetal child, including artificial means.

    10 years? 20 years? Probably a lot shorter than today. Look how much shorter viability got between Roe v Wade and when the Roe standard was changed.

    And, ummm, what gives YOU the right to deny the woman's unalienable right to Liberty? Do you know what unalienable means?

  • Harvard||

    Liberty to commit infanticide? I know what that means.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Liberty to commit infanticide? I know what that means.

    But if you knew what "unalienable" means, as I asked, you wouldn't be saying wacky things like that. I did the best I could to straighten you out on this.

    Repeat: On what authority do you deny the woman's unalienable right to Liberty? You have none, none at all.

    Study our founding documents and what they mean. Just sayin'

  • Harvard||

    I appreciate you're efforts of educate me, your being busy and all.

    Repeat: On the authority that homicide is illegal in every culture I'm aware of. Consider the unalienable right to complete gestation. The present condition and the end result, after all, will not be a pair of shoes or hockey skates.

  • Michael Hihn||

    It's only "homicide" if you deny the woman's unalienable right to Liberty. I ask you again to state an authority for your denial of the woman's unalienable rights.

    How many other cultures are bound by OUR Constitution?

    the unalienable right to complete gestation

    You again deny the woman's unalienable rights!!!

    The legal concept is called conflicting or competing rights.

    NO RIGHTS ARE ABSOLUTE, because they can conflict with one or more other unalienable rights.

    When unalienable rights are in conflict, it is the Court's responsibility to draw the lines between the two, establish the boundaries, for only two centuries now, in a way that best protects BOTH person's rights. Unalienable; learn what it means.

    Didn't we learn this in high school? Have you never heard these common examples (in the vernacular)?

    1) There is no right to yell fire in a crowded theater.
    2) Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose.

    Again, on what authority do you reject the woman's unalienable right to Liberty? (see Bill of Rights for THIS country.)

    To be fair, zealots on the other side deny unalienable rights of the child. The child attains rights when it can live on its own outside the womb, including mechanical support.

    Instead of this nonsense, why not ban abortionists in the room if the fetus is viable? You COULD have done that 22 years ago. Why not save a few babies instead of political power seeking?

  • Azathoth!!||

    When unalienable rights are in conflict, it is the Court's responsibility to draw the lines between the two, establish the boundaries, for only two centuries now, in a way that best protects BOTH person's rights. Unalienable; learn what it means.

    I would say, based on your standard, that the Court must then rule in favor of banning abortion. The woman's liberty is temporarily inconvenienced, while the fetus liberty is completely ended to alleviate that temporary inconvenience.

    Of course, that only applies when one is trying to do the best for both. When one denies that there even is a 'both' the question changes.

    Based solely on the Constitution, one has every right to shout fire in a crowded theater. That one has responsibilities beyond that shout does not abrogate the right to shout.

  • Michael Hihn||

    (lol) I did say, "unalienable; learn what it means."

    He refuses to learn and winds up crap like this:

    So in your perverted moral code, what's best for two people is that one of them sacrifices their unalienable rights to the other! (OMG) Pol Pot is laughing in his grave!

    This is what happens when you have no clue what you're talking about. "Unalienable" means that the rights to Liberty and to Life are precisely equal. THIS time look it up.

    That's because history is filled with despots like you who say, smilingly, "Losing your unalienable and/or God-given rights is a mere inconvenience, so stop yer whining."

    Perverted.

    Based solely on the Constitution, one has every right to shout fire in a crowded theater. That one has responsibilities beyond that shout does not abrogate the right to shout.

    Only if one is eager to sacrifice some people to the others. As you clearly are. But the Court has ruled against you there too, for the reasons I stated. Who do you make your sacrificial offerings to, Baal?

    You can run along now and organize your next human sacrifice.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Repeat: On the authority that homicide is illegal in every culture I'm aware of. Consider the unalienable right to complete gestation.

    Ummm, you can't "repeat" what you've never said. Have you no shame at all?

  • ||

    He's saying it's bad strategy to put it on the forefront of your re-election campaign.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    And who says McC is doing that? That's just speculation from Nick who felt like getting his Culture War on today.

    Bonus: One of the best unintentional Nick disses (@ 17:23).

  • robc||

    In Kentucky?

    Has Nick ever been here?

  • Sevo||

    robc|6.30.14 @ 6:30PM|#
    "In Kentucky?
    Has Nick ever been here?"

    Prolly. He lives in Oxford, OH, 'bout 20 miles north of the river.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Really? Does he have something to do with Miami U? Not knowing anything more, that's what I figure the draw of that town would be.

  • Atlas Slugged||

    He splits his time between Oxford and DC. Got to meet The Jacket once in the Dayton airport, nice guy. I could have sworn at one time he reported being associated with Miami U (aka J Crew U).

    http://reason.com/people/nick-gillespie/all

  • On The Random, Mandelbrot||

    So when we have ex situ births?
    Then where is the line? I have my ideas, but I'd like to hear others.

  • On The Random, Mandelbrot||

    I'm thinking this should be run right up to the age of majority...

  • Homple||

    If you think that McConnell is going to suspend your right to consequence-free fun with your weewee, you can stop worrying right now. In a few years, all that will remain of the Constitution is the penumbric emanation shining on Roe v. Wade.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    McConnell says:

    "It's long past time for us to join the ranks of most other civilized nations to protect children past 20 weeks in the womb."

    Nick interpretation is McConnell wants to radically restrict abortion and use it as a major platform for the GOP?

    Um, possibly he was just speaking to his base and his idea is hardly radical.

  • SIV||

    A 20 week cutoff is acceptable to a substantial block of the self-identified "pro-choice" crowd.

  • Michael Hihn||

    And MUCH more liberal than both Ron and Rand Paul!

    20 weeks is only 2-3 weeks shorter than current -- a pure political power (and fundraising) play.

  • smoke less crack||

    .

  • Tonio||

    So, the anti-abortion crowd should welcome this as harm reduction, right?

  • Michael Hihn||

    So, the anti-abortion crowd should welcome this as harm reduction, right?

    Yes, the extreme social conservatives are quite delighted with Ron and Rand Paul.
  • ||

    20 weeks is only 2-3 weeks shorter than current

    You do realize that there isn't actually any type of ban at the federal or state level on abortions after viability, right? The Supremes just decided no restrictions on the procedure may be placed prior to that point. The United States' laws on the issue are the most liberal in the free world. If McConnell is talking about an outright ban on abortions after 20 weeks, it's a pretty big difference.

  • Michael Hihn||

    You do realize that there isn't actually any type of ban at the federal or state level on abortions after viability, right?

    Ummm, of course. Tell me what confuses you so badly.

    The Supremes just decided no restrictions on the procedure may be placed prior to that point.

    That's their job. In high school you'll learn the concept of competing or conflicting rights, which can ONLY be decided by the Judiciary.

    See, it works like this. NO rights are absolute. DUH Rights can be conflicting. It's the Court's job to draw the lines that best protect the rights of BOTH individuals.

    If McConnell is talking about an outright ban on abortions after 20 weeks, it's a pretty big difference.

    ONE MORE TIME 20 weeks is FAR more liberal than Ron and Rand Paul ... which is what I said. Can you count to 20?

    And shame on you for taking my comment out of context like that.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Right, that's hardly going to cost him an election Kentucky. And I have to think his staff is savvy enough to prevent him from pulling an Aiken and saying something really retarded.

    I am, however, hoping he has a close call and ends up having to lean on Rand for support with the Tea Party. Because if and when he becomes Senate Majority leader next year he'll owe Rand favors and that's something that should be a good thing, in the long run, for libertarians.

  • SIV||

    It's always Acid, Amnesty and Abortion with you stinkin' hippies.

    The only 4-letter words you don't know are W-O-R-K and S-O-A-P.

  • Jesus H. Christ||

    "The only 4-letter words you don't know are W-O-R-K and S-O-A-P."

    This is going into my bag of insults. Thanks!

  • Harvard||

    [This is going into my bag of insults. Thanks]

    It's old.

    George Wallace used that against hippies during an election speech when they attempted to disrupt him.

  • Winston||

    It's always Acid, Amnesty and Abortion with you stinkin' hippies.

    Don't forget old fogey music.

  • Tonio||

    You are marginally redeemable, SIV. Marginally.

  • The Last American Hero||

    Politics is local. Those Team Red folks doing an end around on the abortion bans are in areas of the country that vote pretty consistently pro-life.

    By the way, I'd love to hear how abortion rights would be restricted if Team Red takes the Senate and if McConnell becomes the Majority Leader. Last I checked, any federal abortion restrictions would have to clear a Pro-Choice Dem in the White House and a Supreme Court that doesn't seem inclined to rock the boat. It's a lot like when Team Blue in Washington State tries to make hay over abortion in a gubernatorial campaign. Even if we had a pro-life governor, the house is solidly in the hands of team blue, making the governor's views on abortion moot.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Yeah, that pesky Constitution ....

  • robc||

    Huh?

    That quote could cost him votes from the RIGHT in KY.

    Only 20 weeks? That isnt necessary a popular position here.

    That said, Im voting for the libertarian on the ballot, whoever that is.

  • Capo||

    Here comes the Republican self destruct train! woot woot all aboard!

    Was waiting for this shoe to drop. Repubs will probably throw their own elections now to desperately avoid having to cut the government.

  • robc||

    I refer you to every question I have asked in this thread? How much time have you spent in KY?

  • Tonio||

    What was the middle part, again?

  • Michael Hihn||

    Nick needs to get his stories straight. Both Ron and Rand Paul are FAR worse than McConnell on abortion. Rand's own website brags about wanting abortion to be a state matter -- despite the 9th Amendment -- AND having sponsored a FEDERAL bill to ban abortion at conception!

    So, Ron and Rand support an abortion ban at conception up to a day or two later ... and McConnell is at 20 weeks. Who's really the worst?

    And if McConnell suddenly proposed massive spending cuts, as an extreme social conservative, would that be more proof of a "libertarian era"?

  • smoke less crack||

    .

  • Tonio||

    Aww, the new guy brought his very own sockpuppet. Isn't that special?

  • Michael Hihn||

    Aww, the new guy brought his very own sockpuppet. Isn't that special?

    So you had nothing of intelligence to add. Just a hissy fit. Facts are facts, but I guess you can deny them for all your days on earth.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Who's really the worst?

    nicole?

  • Michael Hihn||

    Ron and Rand Paul. Are you aware that 0 weeks is less than 20 weeks?

  • robc||

    If the Dems really want to unseat Mitch, run a hardcore pro-life democrat with the credentials to back it up. Pound Mitch on it. He is wish-washy enough on the issue to make headway.

  • ||

    There are plenty of other reasons to be disgusted by McConnell -from either side of the aisle- without bringing abortion in to it.

  • MegaloMonocle||

    He's an incumbent, and not on the single-digit list of incumbents who aren't worse than useless.

    That's why I hope he loses. He could do a total 180 on abortion, and call for public funding of abortions and a mandate that any qualified physician provide them on demand, while waving a bloody lump of tissue over his head, and I wouldn't change my mind.

  • Paul.||

    The economy, taxes, budget deficits, Obamacare—these are foremost in voters' minds.

    Phes! Thankfully the Supreme court just made the Obamacare issue an abortion issue.

  • Jerry on the sea||

    Battle won, war lost.

  • GILMORE||

    I am "Roman-Pro-Choice"

    ie. "By law, the paterfamilias...could not only sell any of his children into slavery, he could kill them as well."

    I believe this applied to age 16? Regardless, its the spirit of the thing.

    So enough of the back-talk, kiddies. And you WILL clean your room.

  • Winston||

    So Gilmore is Cytotoxic? I knew it.

  • GILMORE||

    Dude, he's fucking canadian. CANADIAN. Can you not *smell* the difference?

    Also, I'm more a general critic of the non-interventionist foreign policy *anti-theory*; whereas, he's more of a "when in doubt, bomb them!" foreign-policy type.

    To many, this is the same thing, which speaks to my specific criticism.

    So chill, Winston.

  • Cytotoxic||

    he's more of a "when in doubt, bomb them!"

    No I'm not.

  • GILMORE||

    I obviously kid.

    Do you have a better, short summary?

  • Cytotoxic||

    When it's beneficial to protecting Americans from harm, bomb 'em flat!

  • Paul.||

    No, cytotoxic is GILMORE.

    I know, right?

    *nods knowingly while eating sunflower seeds*

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    "I'm the damn paterfamilias!"

  • Paul.||

    That's what I used to say to my ex wife.

    Her story about me gettin' hit by that train didn't hold up so much though.

  • GILMORE||

    This all does put me in an awkward position vis a vis my progeny...

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    "Vernon's got a job. Vernon's got prospects. He's a bona fide!"

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    He's a suitor.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Given a context in which the most politically active and high-profile libertarians are more "extreme" than McConnell's relatively benign (I would go so far as to say moderate) quote, I think the libertarians who are politically active will take a pass on your advice -- and rightly so. Especially given the reaction to ObamaCare and the recent Hobby Lobby ruling, I don't exactly see a groundswell of pro-abort "secular" politics which are also pro-freedom; to the contrary, most of the strong support for abortion comes from the group most in favor of government largesse in all areas of life (single women).

  • SugarFree||

    All Mitch really has to do is laugh derisively about legalized marijuana, praise the PBO and pound on Grimes about coal to win. It's not like Grimes is exactly electrifying in the Democrats in KY, after all. Her biggest ad run has been her very unconvincingly arguing that she's not a puppet for the Obama administration. This is not a position of strength.

    All this amounts to is Mitch tickling the balls of social conservatives to shore up his already solid base. I doubt he'll even mention it again.

  • Winston||

    PBO?

  • SugarFree||

    Police Benevolent Order. The people who vote in KY love them some boys in blue.

  • Winston||

    You Know Which Other Kentuckians didn't like people in Blue Uniforms?

  • SIV||

    John Hunt Morgan's Raiders?

  • widget||

    Grimes is a Hapa? Part Asian. I didn't know her from dirt 5 minutes ago, but I looked up her photos.

  • SugarFree||

    I don't think so. I GIS'd her parents and they just look like all the other crackers around here.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "It's long past time for us to join the ranks of most other civilized nations to protect children past 20 weeks in the womb."

    I love the way he deployed the progs' favorite cliche - America is more extreme than many other countries.

  • Tonio||

    Aww, did someone not give sufficient deference to your antiquated belief-system?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I see my stalker has returned.

    How's the view from the rosebushes?

  • grrizzly||

    Since I've been in Cambridge for a long time, I play the sophisticated European card from the very beginning. It works really well when I denounce the extreme abortion policies in the US that would be considered appalling in the rest of the civilized world.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Good point. The largest number of countries -- 62 -- have no limits on abortion at all. That's 33% of the world population.

    Only about 38% of the entire world population lives in countries which ban abortion entirely, some of them with exceptions for the mother's physical and/or emotional health.

    Canada has no abortion restrictions. Neither does Australia, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and many lesser knowns (62 in all) Some require parental notification, but very few.

  • Stickler Meeseeks||

    McConnell should be ousted for THIS? He's from Kentucky, you know. Get serious.

    McConnell should be ousted because he is an establishment Republican who supports crony capitalists, refuses to really fight against ObamaCare, and has openly attacked the Tea Party. His role in the Mississippi primary is disgusting. Anything for Thad, though! Including endorsing segregationist tactics against the Tea Party candidate.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Thad? You mean Pappy O'Daniel? The incumbent?

    How is that Tea Party 'Homer Stokes' RE-FORHM candidate doing?

  • Stickler Meeseeks||

    I must not be as smart as you, but was there a point here?

  • Sevo||

    Stickler Meeseeks|6.30.14 @ 7:32PM|#
    "I must not be as smart as you,..."

    Not to worry. Mud is smarter than that turd.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I love Southern politics.

    WE GOT US A GODDAMN AGITATOR OVER HERE, BOYS! GET HIM!

  • Cytotoxic||

    I love how that graph makes a total joke of the anti-choicer meme/delusion that the young'ns are coming up pro-life.

    The womb-grabbers are just like the gun-grabbers: they both claim they just want some 'common-sense' limitations but they really want total control. McConnel is too dumb to toe the lie.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Aren't you the abortion-through-the-12th-trimester guy?

  • Cytotoxic||

    And beyond (in some cases)!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    We seem to have widely divergent perspectives...

  • Marshall Gill||

    You mean, you actually respect the NAP? Killing unwanted children is very libertarian, very.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Killing unwanted children is very libertarian, very.

    Libertarians are smart enough to know that the woman has unalienable rights here. Individual liberty is what it's all about. Well, REAL libertarians know that, which excludes Ron and Rand Paul.

    In contrast, extreme zealots on both sides deny the entire concept of unalienable rights -- one side denies the fetal child's and the other denies the woman's. In America. (sigh)

  • Homple||

    Because they aren't human until Cytotoxic says they are.

  • Irish||

    I love how that graph makes a total joke of the anti-choicer meme/delusion that the young'ns are coming up pro-life.

    Except that graph is based on some very flawed questions. 'Can abortion be legal in some circumstances' covers a pretty fucking wide range of options. Let's say I'm against abortion unless the mother's life is in danger. Someone else is in favor of abortion until the 25th week. We're both in favor of abortion being legal 'some of the time' despite the fact that we've got wildly divergent opinions.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Fair point, but it looks like 'legal in all circumstances' is near the upper range of its bound.

  • Irish||

    Let's look at some more concrete numbers based on an actual policy proposal, as opposed to nebulous terms like 'some of the time.'

    Majority of Americans support 20 week abortion bans. How many people are in favor of 24 week abortion? 27% compared to 56% in favor of the ban after 20 weeks.

    This is why polling is horseshit. Even if people disagree with you, you can always find some poll where the questions are worded in such a way that it gives the appearance that the public is on your side. This is the same way progs came up with their hilarious '90% of people want gun control!' meme. They used a poll with ludicrous wording and ill-defined terms so that even most people who don't want gun control voted the way the progressives wanted.

    Libertarians should not be falling into the same idiocies as the progs.

  • Marshall Gill||

    Libertarians should not be falling into the same idiocies as the progs.

    Not to worry, it isn't libertarian. Whatever else it may claim to support, it supports infanticide, the after birth kind. He actually believes in murdering the already born. Piece. Of. Shit.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Feel better now? There there we don't have to discuss your lack of rational basis for your rage.

  • Irish||

    The lack of rational basis behind being opposed to baby murder?

  • ||

    Huh, I just assume that he's glibly over the top with how he presents his beliefs to rattle cages here.

  • Libertymike||

    Almost all of us have, at one time or another, done the same.

    Just truthin'.

  • Mickey Rat||

    "Libertarians should not be falling into the same idiocies as the progs."

    This is one issue where Gillepie is a prog, with all the mendaciousness that implies.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Umm, he's an extreme social conservative, over all - the primary propagandist for Ron and Rand Paul.

  • Azathoth!!||

    Wow.

    If all your other blather wasn't a clue that you were living under a bridge waiting for some goats THIS leaves no doubt.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Which part befuddles you, Sport. Be specific -- if you dare -- so I can prove you wrong.

    Or just continue whining with nothing to add.

  • See Double You||

    Nick,

    Whether I care about "abortion rights" assumes I believe in abortion rights.

  • Irish||

    I'm generally pro-abortion rights and I understand that the issue is a divisive one. Yet if Mitch McConnell thinks that foregrounding abortion in his tough election campaign is going to make the prospects of a GOP majority more attractive to most voters, he's an idiot. The economy, taxes, budget deficits, Obamacare—these are foremost in voters' minds. Raising social issues will serve only to spook the 75 percent of voters who already don't consider themselves Republican while doing next to nothing to goose turnout by the GOP faithful.

    Given that Gillespie thinks coming out in favor of mass immigration is a game winner for Republicans, I don't know how he can sit around giving anyone advice on how to win an election.

    Clearly the best way to win an election is to completely alienate your base over an issue that 90% of the rest of America doesn't give a fuck about.

  • Stickler Meeseeks||

    ^THIS

  • Cytotoxic||

    The GOP absolutely must embrace immigration. Americans and particularly my generation are not down with xenophobes. My generation is also not down with anti-choicers.

  • Irish||

    More Democrats would decrease immigration than increase immigration.

    Of course, Gallup somewhat hilariously tries to spin the poll by saying the number in favor of increasing it has gone up in the last ten years, while ignoring the fact that every political group is still more likely to favor a decrease than an increase.

    That's not even getting into the fact that long term economic problems have a somewhat horrifying tendency to turn people into xenophobes. Ten years from now when America's economy is still atrocious, which it almost certainly will be, the kids coming of age in the worst long term job market we've ever seen are not going to have a positive view of outsiders. Europe has gotten vastly less accepting of immigrants just in the last 5 years. There's a reason the most anti-immigration people in America are the poor. Make more poor people, and they'll become even more anti-immigration.

    I'm not arguing against immigration. I'm pointing out the fairly obvious fact that there is not some massive pro-immigration ground swell that would make up for Republicans obliterating their base. Gillespie can't ignore basic polling when it contradicts his desires and suddenly care what polls say when they're on his side. That's idiotically hypocritical.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Did that poll factor in what's motivating people to vote? Far more people are motivated by the successful effort to (accurately) portray the GOP as a bunch of foreign people-haters than are motivated by anti-immigration sentiment. I don't know how much of the GOP base is so anti-immigration-the xenophobes are a very squeaky wheel-but I'm sure most of them would just grumble and vote for team.

    It does make more sense to prioritize getting the government's foot off the economy's neck before liberalizing the border.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    The GOP absolutely must embrace immigration. Americans and particularly my generation are not down with xenophobes.

    False equivalency. It's possible to be anti-illegal immigration in our current system and not be xenophobic. It's comparable to calling all those who are against Obama racists.

  • Irish||

    Bullshit! Anyone who is against open borders is only against open borders due to their hatred of Mexicans.

    You see, it's idiotic when progressives claim that anyone who disagrees with them is a racist, but when libertarians do it it's totally okay.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    You sound racist

  • ||

    This is what happens when you start letting the Irish in...

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    I'm on the fence about immigration since I genuinely believe America should be a country where people that are intelligent, disciplined, and hard-working can succeed regardless of their origins.

    But at the same time I feel open borders is problematic without first addressing the myriad of problems with our government.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    The system is doomed anyway, why not force it to collapse sooner?

  • Winston||

    Isn't that what Lenin thought? I guess that means in a 100 years we will have our own Putin.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    100, 120, big difference

    Seriously, there is no way our current financial problems sort themselves out thru the political process.

  • Cytotoxic||

    It's possible to be anti-illegal immigration in our current system and not be xenophobic.

    Whatever your motivations, the extreme difficulty/impossibility of legally immigrating into America means that opposition to illegal immigration is, in effect, not very different from opposing immigration period. Further, given that the 'problems' of illegal immigration are at least almost entirely works of fiction and this has been demonstrated through the research of Cato and others. It is plain that the people wailing about illegal immigration want to believe it is the end of the world for the same reason the people wailing about AGW want to believe it is the end of the world. The motivation is similar: to punish something they inherently see as evil.

  • PapayaSF||

    Ach, what nonsense. It's not as if immigration is impossible. The fact that the law is slow is a poor excuse for breaking it.

    Illegal immigration has huge costs, fiscal and social.

    As for the end of the world, no. The world won't end as the US becomes more like Mexico and Honduras. It just means the US will become poorer, more violent, shittier, and less libertarian.

  • Whahappan?||

    Not to defend open borders necessarily, but the law is not "slow" it is stationary for the vast majority of prospective immigrants from south of the border. And your invoking respect for the law is a total non-starter. Why should "illegal" immigrants have more respect for the law than the very government that makes, enforces and interprets said law?

  • PapayaSF||

    The law should be stationery regarding the vast majority of people who want to come here (from anywhere). Far more people would like to move here than is desirable for us.

  • Homple||

    Yeah, all people against illegal immigration are xenophobes. Typical progressive argumentation: you disagree with me because you are a [insert pejorative word here]. You cannot disagree with what Cyto's "generation" is "down with" without being by definition an evil person. QED.

  • Winston||

    So when did libertarians care about popularity, Supreme Court precedents and political expediency?

  • Irish||

    I don't care about those things. My point is that you can't ignore polling on a subject when it's opposed to your views and then suddenly talk about how everyone needs to agree with you because of the polls when those polls are on your side.

    Either political expediency is important, in which case Gillespie's argument that Republicans will win through being pro-immigration is moronic, or political expediency is not important.

    You can't have it both ways, but Gillespie apparently wants to.

  • Winston||

    You can't have it both ways, but Gillespie apparently wants to.

    I agree, that's what I have criticizing him for a while.

    It is a pretty disingenuous line of thinking from libertarians considering how much they hate Republicans who use such thinking to justify things they don't like which this Eisenhower quote exemplifies:
    http://reason.com/blog/2014/06.....nt_4607021

  • SQRLSY One||

    I talked to Government Almighty the other day, in Government-Almighty-given dreams, and Government Almighty, He / She / It / Shit sez to Mwah,
    “SQRLSY One, don’t cha know,
    The Republicrats are right,
    GAWD (AKA Government Almighty’s Wrath Delivers),
    Sez to thou, Don’t cha know,
    Them thar whose is born 5 or 5,000 yards on the wrong side o’ them thar border,
    Then thar is ILLEGAL HUMANOIDS!
    Vermin in My Sight!”
    -Ahs haz heard it from GAWD Himself, whut else can I SAY?!?!?!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Dude, the term is "MassImmigration".

    Learn2Spell.

  • MegaloMonocle||

    +1 Orange Line Special

  • Libertymike||

    I don't go in for public transportation.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    If You Care About Abortion Rights...

    I don't. Now what?

  • widget||

    Gillespie screwed himself from the get-go there, assuming there is some right to a medical procedure.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Nice way to bullshit the issue. It's a right to Liberty, which is unalienable. Do you know what "unalienable" means?

  • Winston||

    This line of attack on the GOP strikes me as rather disingenuous. It's one thing to say the GOP should do things libertarians like but it's another to say the GOP should do politically expedient things except when libertarians don't like what they are doing. You guys do know that the Republicans like to justify not living up to their small government rhetoric due to political expediency?

  • Michael Hihn||

    Yeah, Reagan's may be the most libertarian administration we see for another 50 years or so.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Meh. Let's get back to talking about the regs on every other part of our God forsaken lives.

  • Winston||

    Or how the only thing stopping the Supremes from ruling that Congress and the Constitution are finished is one vote?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Just tax speech and they'll get the last vote needed.

  • Irish||

  • Duke||

    There should be a sound effect of a toilet flushing when you click on anything from Salon.

  • Winston||

    So did the aliens in Plane 9 hit David Talbot too?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Again, valiant effort, but Salon cannot be parodied:

    GOP’s Hobby Lobby debacle: Why a win for conservatives isn’t one for Republicans

    Yeah that's right. We'll be in a recession by November, healthcare premiums will continue to rise, and the Obama administration will still be tarnished by scandal, but don't worry progs, a decision that won't effect 99.2% of women in this country is going to save the Democrats from a slaughtering.

  • PapayaSF||

    If we go from privately-held corporations → who provide health insurance → who have religious beliefs about certain kinds of birth control and then take their employees → who are women of child-bearing age → who want certain kinds of birth control, I suspect the number of women involved is far less than 0.8%.

  • Mark22||

    I consider myself generally pro choice, and I don't have a problem with the current state of affairs. On the other hand, I also don't see a big problem with drawing a line at 20 weeks for on-demand abortions (with exceptions after that for medical reasons); only about 1.5% of abortions are performed after that point anyway, and most of those are for medical reasons. The whole thing is really a big non-issue.

    What I find more shocking is that about half of US pregnancies are unintended. Do these people have no control over their own bodies?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Just no control

  • Lady Bertrum||

    What I find more shocking is that about half of US pregnancies are unintended. Do these people have no control over their own bodies?

    Oh, sweetie. I'm going to shock you now. Sometimes women lie about birth control. Sometimes because they want to get pregnant.

    Men are frequently incredibly naïve and/or trusting.

    Bank some sperm then get a vasectomy.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Really? So many internet feminists swear up and down that that is a pernicious lie told by MRAs and misogynists to propagate rape culture. Or something to that effect.

    Please report to your nearest feminist enlightenment center to have your false consciousness removed. I believe Sister Marcotte is filling in today for Sister Fluke, who is at home doing an inventory on her birth control in wake of the Hobby Lobby decision.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    There is the pretend world that feminists think exists than there's the actual world with real human behavior.

    I'm amazed how men leave their reproductive rights to the discretion of women.

  • Irish||

    I found a hilariously terrible comment on Instapundit:

    Most people are idiots. Libertarianism gets its basic premises directly from Marxism. It rejects some of the Marxist conclusions, but it rests on a solidly Marxist foundation. The idea that all the people in existence are usefully and properly divided into "capital" and "labor", perhaps the single most stupid and destructive idea ever to spring from the mind of man, originates with Marxism - but libertarians adapted it in its entirety.

    How can people be capital?

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Wtf? I hate willful ignorance.

  • Whahappan?||

    Doesn't seem like willful ignorance, seems more like clueless stupidity. Though I could be wrong.

  • Whahappan?||

    Doesn't seem like willful ignorance, seems more like clueless stupidity. Though I could be wrong.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    How can people be capital?

    You mean you've never been to the orphan bazaars of Allahabad?

  • Irish||

    Interesting question: Is a slave a unit of labor or capital?

    I'd say capital because he's not free to leave and work another job.

    So, I suppose in a slave holding society it is possible for a person to be capital.

  • Libertymike||

    You must not like the term "human capital"?

  • Irish||

    But human capital doesn't turn the person into capital. It just means he has skills.

  • Libertymike||

    Is your sarcometer off this evening?

    I can't stand the term. At.all.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    How can people be capital?

    We can chop them up and turn them into paper currency? The color and smell might be a bit....odd, but good news, hard to counterfeit.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    The drying process will be time consuming.

  • Libertymike||

    and not olfactory friendly.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Is the Independents cancelled? Are they holding the 4th of July early?

  • GILMORE||

    Independents thread?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Welch is on vacation in France, so while there is a show tonight I don't think anyone else is going to post a thread.

  • Winston||

    This proves that without Top-Down Control blogging is impossible. LIBERTARIANIZM IS DIZCREDITED!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Exercising his "right of privacy," IYKWIMAITYD.

  • Libertymike||

    A mistress in Marseilles?

  • GILMORE||

    Thank god. I was going to have nothing nice to say tonight.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    liar. you never say anything nice about Welch.

  • GILMORE||

    1) *YOU* LIE!

    as recently as friday I applauded matt wearing a white shirt.

    2) tonight is the anniversary of the 'night of the long knives', and in thematic respect for that, I would be required to ONLY say the most nasty things possible about people.

    Fortunately I'm off the hook

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Tonight's episode of < i The Independents is cancelled, in solidarity with all the women who will suffer because of today's Koch-funded contraception ban.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Prediction: If this isn't the biggest bag over the head, punch in the face...

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Blue is the warmest color for Kennedy.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The thing is when you mix an Aborto-Freak up with a fundie Christer nutcase then sprinkle in a little neo-Nazi conservative you have one fucked up citizen.

  • Duke||

    Now who can argue with that? I think we're all in debt to Buttplug for stating what needed to be said. I am particularly glad that these lovely children are here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed the courage little seen in this day and age.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I had you in mind when I wrote that, Dukee.

  • Duke||

    So I haunt your fantasies, eh Plug?

  • Libertymike||

    "neo-Nazi conservative"

    Monsewer, you are a lulu.

  • Derpetologist||

    ♫ Carry on my retard son!

    ♫ There'll be cake when you are done!

    ♫ Lay your weary head to rest!

    ♫ Don't you derp no more!

    ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫

  • Marshall Gill||

    Bravo!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Moynihan is an acceptable alternative. To almost anything. Next time find a tie.

  • GILMORE||

    must... resist... attire... comments....

  • ||

    So this is the TI thread?

    Shit, no Welch and everything falls apart.

  • Irish||

    PROG SMASH!

    HIGH MPREG PRIESTESS @witchqueenloki
    Follow
    ah wtf they did. literally burn hobby lobby to the ground

    RB Blair @TuxcedoCat
    Follow
    "High court rules in favor of #HobbyLobby" - what the fuck is #SCOTUS smoking? Kochcaine? #WeDeserveBetter #kochtopia #WomenVote

    I will not take my dollars or my lesser-than uterus to Oklahoma-based company #HobbyLobby ever again. FUCK YOU GUYS.—
    ak huxley (@abbykate) June 30, 2014

    < - this is a less than uterus. Its opposite is a greater than uterus.

    Fuck SCOTUS. Fuck Hobby Lobby. Fuck religion. Fuck America.—
    (@Ginge) June 30, 2014
  • Duke||

    I'm sure their combined net worth of -$100,000 has Hobby Lobby quaking in their boots.

  • ||

    Good one.

  • ||

    #WomenVote

    For SCOTUS? News to me!

  • Sevo||

    "For SCOTUS? News to me!"

    Naaah. For the "free shit" party.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Oh Moyinhan. Weird that the show's Twitter feed did not see fit to mention he was filling in for Matt.

    Then again he is a vampire, so perhaps they were hoping he couldn't enter the studio unless invited?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The vampyre does not show up in mirrors or Twitter feeds.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    Dear Reason,

    Can you please submit another article about the pot smoking tranny gayz who want free rubbers and unisex bathrooms?

    Sincerely yours,

    Da Kultur Warrior

  • ||

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Seriously, #NOTMYBOSSBUSINESS has to be the most vapid bullshit ever. Government is imposing a cost on business through regulation, regulation that comes between two private, contracting parties.

    How is that not the boss' business when he's paying for the damn thing on pain of penaltax?

  • ||

    A friend of mine was complaining about people complaining about Viagara being covered this morning. "I'd like to know what fucking healthcare they're getting if Viagara is covered!"

    He then felt bad for cis-male privilege and I mocked him mercilessly for it.

  • Michael Hihn||

    So, your friend is too stucking fupid to know:

    1) Viagra is the opposite of an abotifacient?

    2) Viagra does not involve a conflict between the unalienable rights of two sovereign individuals.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Barbara Boxer tweets:

    "Now that Hobby Lobby denies birth control to their female employees, will they deny Viagra to their male employees? #NotMyBossBusiness"

    What possible benefit could women get from their husbands/SOs getting erections?

    And on another topic, where do people get the idea that feminists are lesbians?

  • PapayaSF||

    I hate that analogy.

    1) Nobody thinks Viagra ends a life.

    2) Erectile dysfunction is a disease and Viagra treats it. What disease does birth control treat?

    3) There are lots of ways to avoid pregnancy, but very few that treat erectile dysfunction.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    This just in: Kmele Foster resents religion's inclusion in the Bill of Rights.

  • Derpetologist||

    Tales from the Derp

    I was talking with a guy at a Tea Party meeting. I was trying to explain that law boils down to might makes right, because all laws are ultimately backed up by violence. That's why we say law is enforced.

    I argued that laws are arbitrary- alcohol went from legal to illegal back to legal again- all because a small number of people scribbled ink on pieces of paper. I asked him to explain how scribbles of ink on paper can make it right to do things that were previously wrong and vice-versa.

    His only response was to sputter "but it's the law!

  • Michael Hihn||

    Derp. You need to learn what unalienable rights are, and how they differ from merely legal events.

    Do you seriously believe we were endowed by a Creator with certain unalienable rights, among which are Life, Liberty, the Pursuit of Happiness and Jack Daniels?

  • Derpetologist||

    Tales from the Derp

    I was talking with a guy at a Tea Party meeting. I was trying to explain that law boils down to might makes right, because all laws are ultimately backed up by violence. That's why we say law is enforced.

    I argued that laws are arbitrary- alcohol went from legal to illegal back to legal again- all because a small number of people scribbled ink on pieces of paper. I asked him to explain how scribbles of ink on paper can make it right to do things that were previously wrong and vice-versa.

    His only response was to sputter "but it's the law!

  • GILMORE||

    You strike me as a person who'd be much happier as a philosophy grad student

  • Derpetologist||

    I really wish there was a contest show called "America's Next Top Philosopher".

  • GILMORE||

    "...and next, we have Ashley, a 14yr old from Toledo who is going to dissect Spinoza's material ethnical relativism in the context of Cultural Historicism..."

  • ||

    Like, um, the Iraq and such.

  • Derpetologist||

    I found a whole compilation of beauty contestants spouting gibberish:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojQtfU5W_mE

  • ||

    Ratings: -1.2.

  • Libertymike||

    Miss South Carolina is a lurker here...just sayin'.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Even Illinois civil unions?

  • ||

    Exactly. He just made a very IMPORTANT point. The rights of PEOPLE are just as important as institutions like religion.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Maybe the atheists here should not have been so dismissive of Kennedy's infamous "Atheism is totally a religion" article.

    Now no soup for you when it comes to paying for Sandra Fluke's birth control.

  • Sevo||

    Grand Moff Serious Man|6.30.14 @ 9:07PM|#
    "Maybe the atheists here should not have been so dismissive of Kennedy's infamous "Atheism is totally a religion" article.

    I wasn't dismissive; that sort of BS gets a response regularly.

  • Michael Hihn||

    Some atheists -- only some -- treat their atheism as a religion. Madelyn Murray O'hair was an atheist on faith alone!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Uh, I think a humanist objection *would* be protected by RFRA - as the Supreme Court said in the famous Footnote 11 in Torcaso v. Watkins -

    "Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others."

    http://supreme.justia.com/case...../case.html

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Specifically, what the court said was Secular Humanism was a religion.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Secular Humanism equates to the Scientific Method.

    If that is a religion I am a priest.

  • GILMORE||

    you're so cute when you talk about yourself like you're smart.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Dipthong repeated something very, very stupid.

    I have to assume the idiot believes it. Do you?

  • Libertymike||

    Don't be so modest. You could be a monsignor, if not a cardinal.

  • wadair||

    Secular Humanism equates to the Scientific Method

    No it doesn't. One is a way of living (a religion) and seeing the world, and the other is a process for establishing fact.

  • antisocial-ist||

    Shorter opinion, compulsory unionization is obviously bullshit. But the SC has no balls.

  • Trials and Trippelations||

    But it has 9 dicks

  • GILMORE||

    SEI *me*? SEIU!!

  • Libertymike||

    Do you think that Lionel Richie is happy with Vandy winning the college world series?

  • ||

    Canadians subsidize their political parties. So if you vote Conservative, your taxes go to support the NDP - because democracy. So if your party sucks at gathering funds, no troubles, Canada will subsidize your lousy party and its shitty ideas.

  • ||

  • Cytotoxic||

    The per vote subsidy is being phased out and will be terminated in 2015.

  • ||

    Thanks to Harper the Evil!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I like this. No < i The Independents post means no spoilers. I have no idea what's coming up AND I LOVE IT.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I keep having to refresh to regain my commenting capacity. Is it me?

  • Marshall Gill||

    It has happened to me. The squirrels are not finished with us just yet.

  • antisocial-ist||

    Anybody else get the impression that Kennedy is just a little bit high when the cameras turn on?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    It's like Murdoch showed up at the set in that shirt and they told him he had to have a suit coat and they gave him that jacket.

  • Derpetologist||

    Let's compare what Snowden did to some other famous US moles and war criminals:

    Robert Hansen was an FBI mole who passed enormous amounts of classified information to Soviet and later Russian intelligence. His worst crime was giving the KGB a list of Soviets who had contacted the FBI about moles, an act which surely led to many of them being jailed or executed. He was sentenced to life in prison.

    Aldrich Ames was a CIA mole who passed enormous amounts of information to the KGB. His actions led to the deaths of at least 10 CIA agents. He was sentenced to life in prison.

    John Anthony Walker Jr. was a Navy intelligence officer who helped the Soviets decode over 1 million secret messages. He may have also contributed to the capture of the USS Pueblo by North Korea. He was sentenced to life in prison.

    William Calley was a US Army Officer who was found guilty of killing 22 civilians during the My Lai massacre. He was sentenced to life in prison but ended up serving only 3 and a half years of house arrest. Calley claimed he was only following orders and public sympathy helped reduce his sentence.

    Robert Bales was a US Army sergeant found guilty of killing 16 Afghan civilians. He pled guilty and was sentenced to life in prison.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Wow, that puts it in perspective - Snowden must be a monster since he's so much worse than all these criminals!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Foster is totally sexist.

  • GILMORE||

    i actually love Kmele even more for not giving a shit that Bradley is now 'Chelsea'.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    I love all you mumbo-jumbo, flat earth, Creationist believin' conservatives!

    FUCK YEAH!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I OWN A BLACK LABRADOR RETRIEVER AND I OBJECT TO HIS CHARACTERIZATION.

  • antisocial-ist||

    Unless they're going to end the VA and put them in a free market, nothing will change.

  • ||

    Not watching (as usual), but I do like Michael Moynihan.

  • ||

    More or less than you like Sasha Roiz?

  • ||

    Good question. Sasha Roiz is hotter in a purely visual manner; Moynihan is quite handsome, sure, but he can't really compare.

    I don't know Roiz's personality though. It is possible that the sum of Moynihan's looks and personality eclipses Roiz's.

  • ||

    That's fair. You can tell right away that hanging out with Moynihan is gonna be a blast, even if you need to bring glacier glasses when you go.

    /tan privilege

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Those who can, do. Those who can't, get recruited by Obama.

  • ||

    Only 200 comments? This thread barely warrants the official Reason abortion thread anthem.

  • antisocial-ist||

    Heh, this is abortion plus TI apparently.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The television show equivalent of an abortion.

  • ||

    I blame Welch.

  • antisocial-ist||

    I couldn't imagine how bad a colonoscopy at the VA would be.

  • Derpetologist||

    Sort of on-topic: Everything is a popularity contest.

    Every Nobel prize, Supreme Court decision, election, law, war, etc.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    You realize what this means, right? No one at reason but Matt Walsh gives a shite about < i The Independents.

  • antisocial-ist||

    Can I declare my own Caliphate?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Do you lust for camels? Or any Middle Eastern jack-off prophet?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Is that like being Master of Your Domain?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    No, *I'm* the Caliph - where's my jizya, infidel?

  • Duke||

    Well, the Fox website's live feed doesn't work. So much for the free markets. We need a single-video system!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

  • Duke||

    Weird. Fox's own website doesn't work but this link does.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    The Fox website doesn't do real-time broadcast of FB - at least not for free.

  • Duke||

    So it's all about profits, eh? Capitalists pigs!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    But...they do livestreaming of the aftershow.

  • antisocial-ist||

    We could just stand back and watch them kill eachother.

  • John||

    Being pro life is almost as much as a litmus test in the GOP as being pro choice is in the Democratic party. So, coming out pro choice would be political suicide for McConnel. So I fail to see why Nick finds McConnel giving the pro forma pro life position to be noteworthy. It is no more interesting or important than Harry Reid giving a pro choice answer.

    This is the latest in an ongoing series of posts where Nick explains that the way for Republicans to win elections is to tell their most loyal supporters to go fuck themselves. I can't figure out if Nick is concern trolling or is really that stupid. He is most certainly stupid and really the most boring writer at reason. Other writers may have worse positions but no one manages to be as boring as Nick. I am just not sure if he is that stupid.

  • GILMORE||

    Did Kennedy just coin, "Eat a bag" as a TV-acceptable quip?

    Nice. Now we can just assume the '..of dicks' part. Cute!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Moynihan doesn't like how attached his head is to his neck, apparently.

  • GILMORE||

    he does this thing where he drops his chin down and looks at people across the bottoms of his eyebrows that I call his, "Take Me Seriously Now"-look.

    Sorta like this, but without the psychotic-crazy

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Well, I was thinking about the way he was dissing the Middle East, but yeah.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Fuck you, Canadian oil!

  • GILMORE||

    Yeah seriously = on one hand, you've got all these people 'explaining' that what we need to do is detach our oil connection to the Middle East so we dont need to be caring WTF the a-rabs are doing to one another... and yet, in the next breath, STOP THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE!!!

    Fucking morons.

  • John||

    They honestly think solar and wind can take the place of oil. Yeah, they are that fucking retarded.

  • Sevo||

    "They honestly think solar and wind can take the place of oil."

    Once they thin-out the human population, it'll do just fine.

  • Whahappan?||

    Most people have no idea how the physical world works. You can try to explain the vast quantities of energy we use, and that wind and solar are orders of magnitude inadequate to satisfying these needs, and will be for the foreseeable future, and they will just look at you with a blank stare, totally uncomprehending.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Who still records in 4:3 aspect ratio? What a backward little region!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I liked this better the first time I saw it when it was World War Z except instead of the inflatable ramp it was zombies.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Patronize the flyover states segment.

  • antisocial-ist||

    He was more coherent on crack.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I plan to...switch to meth...and LSD...crack is for...wimps...

  • ||

    Problem is...he did help taxpayers.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I'm aborting this tread and going to the actual < i The Independents thread that Suderman had the balls to backdate to 9PM.

  • ||

    What a jerk that judge.

  • Trials and Trippelations||

    I was there the moment that there was a good Topical Storm

  • ||

    I was just gonna comment. At least this segment didn't have the usual celebrity rubbish.

  • ||

    "I've never been to the beach."

    --Michael Moynihan, 06/30/14

    That's a statement I can believe in.

  • GILMORE||

    out

  • Sevo||

    of

  • ||

    Did National Geographic just become VH1?

  • Sidd Finch v2.01||

  • ||

    Spelling is misogynist.

  • ||

    Asshole cops.

  • ||

    God bless this kid.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    WHY AREN'T YOU AT THE OTHER THREAD NOW?

  • ||

    NOBODY TOLD US!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I told you up above. My comments are all must-reads.

  • ||

    Ooh, you did. You might have posted it when my "reply to this" button was broken and I was spamming refresh.

  • Derpetologist||

    Bernie Goldsmith is only on for 2 minutes every 3 weeks, but still manages to be funnier than all the hosts.

    Ponder this.

  • ProLifeLibertarian||

    "I'm generally pro-abortion rights and I understand that the issue is a divisive one."

    Have the decency to call it what it is, Nick. Abortion is murder. Just because it isn't the first issue on people's minds doesn't make it less important. Millions of children have died painful deaths since abortion was legalized, and let's not forget the countless others who were killed before 1973.

    I resent being told that I hate women because I am pro-life; I love women so much that I want girls to be able to be born and live prosperous lives. I implore other libertarians to embrace the pro-life position; defending abortion is akin to defending slavery during the pre-Civil-War era. You cannot live in a free society if you are depriving millions of people of life and condemning them to death.

    The abortion genocide has claimed innumerable lives. I want to see abortion criminalized, because it entails the homicide of another human being, and an innocent one at that. Most libertarians would oppose the death penalty, even for rapists. But why should a child conceived through rape be sentenced to death, when he or she has no say over who their parents are? Abortion is wrong in all instances, and the true libertarian position is pro-life.

    Abortion does not empower women: http://tinyurl.com/ltl75vw.

    I am pro-life, anti-infanticide, anti-war, anti-death-penalty, and pro-animal-welfare. I embrace a consistent mindset when it comes to protecting life.

  • Mickey Rat||

    "I'm generally pro-abortion rights and I understand that the issue is a divisive one. Yet if Mitch McConnell thinks that foregrounding abortion in his tough election campaign is going to make the prospects of a GOP majority more attractive to most voters, he's an idiot."

    You are a pro-abortion rights extremist. McConnell's position expressed here falls under the "Abortion legal under certain circumstances" category, so the graphic you give is not indicative that it is a political loser.

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