Obamacare’s Legal and Practical Tribulations Last Week, Plus Independents Re-Re-Run Open Thread for “Rise of the Machines”

Did you miss The Independents talk about Obamacare's lousy week? Let's rectify that. First up, Katherine Mangu-Ward and TV's Andy Levy discuss the latest delays to the unwieldy law:

When Hobby Lobby had its day at the Supreme Court arguing against Obamacare, Cato Executive Vice President David Boaz was on the show that night to talk about the case, the law, and the principle of religious-liberty exceptions:

And in the after-show that night, Boaz joined Party Panelists Julie Roginsky and Ellis Henican for a rambling conversation that ended on Obamacare after various detours through German hookers and throuples:

It's Sunday night, so that means a delicious Independents repeat at 7 p.m. ET, 4 p.m. PT. Once again, it's "Rise of the Machines," featuring Katherine Mangu-Ward, James Barrat, Robin Hanson, P.W. Singer, Marc Scribner, Lori Sanders, and more. Gentlepeople, open your threads!

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • ||

    Gentlepeople

    I like PC language when it is freely chosen.

  • GILMORE||

    "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice"
    - Lame Canadian Band

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Did you listen to the Grand Illusion yet?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Not endorsing their philosophy, but their music is good.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    This just in: I started True Detective.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    My sister and her boyfriend have been watching The Wire virtually nonstop for the past month. I suspect they'll be looking for something new to move onto soon.

  • Smilin' Joe Fission||

    That was sooo winter 2014.

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Winter is coming staying.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Well, I waited ten years after watching the pilot episode of Auric's sister's The Wire before moving on to the second episode and then finishing the series, so this is practically live viewing for me. They had a Deadwood marathon last weekend but who the hell can sit for 36 hours straight?

  • Pompey||

    For Deadwood? No problem.

  • ||

    It is TV genius...you should be laying on a couch.

  • Pompey||

    OMG totes

  • mr simple||

    Laying what on the couch?

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Three letters:

    D
    V
    R

  • sloopyinca||

    Doesn't your Betamax have a record function?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Meh. I have HBOGO, so I can get back to it anytime. I rewatched the pilot so I'll get on it once hockey season is over probably. But HBO shows The Sopranos every week night, which is great, but they could switch it up and rerun their other serieses.

  • sloopyinca||

    Speaking of hockey, the Wings are starting to look safe to get in. I'd sure rather they get a 7 instead of an 8. I think they can beat the Pens. The Bruins not so much.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    In the playoffs anyone can beat the Pens.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Especially if Datsyuk and Zetterberg are back.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    It was Colonel Mustard in the library with a wrench.

  • ||

    The birds flying in a spiral while they investigate the broken down church should get an award for best special effects.

    So subtle yet so awesome.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Yeah I just saw that.

  • Kakistocrat||

    I was pretty blown away by the continuous-shot scene in the Beaumont ghetto scene (although, I know there were some hidden edits).

  • Kakistocrat||

    ...Beaumont ghetto EPISODE.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    The first 7 hours and 40 minutes are awesome.

  • Paul.||

    What you did there, I sore it.

  • Steve G||

    Rectified him?

  • sloopyinca||

    Damn near killified him.

  • ||

    Katherine Mangu-Ward and TV's Andy Levy

    Fight fight fight

    kiss kiss kiss

  • Auric Demonocles||

    Why does fake grape flavor taste so horrible when real grapes are delicious?

  • sloopyinca||

    What you talkin about?

    -black people

  • sloopyinca||

    And this actually brings me to my theory I posited to Banjos last night.

    I think the government is conspiring to make sure the black community's diabeetus epidemic continues by keeping diet grape soda off American grocery store shelves.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    And now you know what your next business venture should be.

  • sloopyinca||

    Diet grape soda truck in LA?

    That sounds solid.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    You got your permits and licenses in order, Citizen? Why should we let you exploit our communities?

    //LA councimember Fuck Face (D)

  • sloopyinca||

    The license is $5,000. There's $2,500 in this envelope. Or is there, councilman?"

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    The way things are going, LA councimember Fuck Face (D) is going to be visited by the FBI soon.

  • ||

    Diet Pepsi doesn't help fat white people what makes you think diet grape soda would help fat black people?

  • sloopyinca||

    There's such a thing as Diet Pepsi?

  • Trollo||

    Only un-American Yankee traitors drink any kind of Pepsi.

    Coke
    It's the real thing.

  • ||

    Well, I mean, Diet Pepsi flavored Coke.

  • lap83||

    I love fake grape flavor, but I'm not black. However, I did spend my childhood in a semi-hood.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Cough syrup addiction?

  • PapayaSF||

    I love it, and fake banana flavor, too (which was the first artificial flavor IIRC), and I grew up in purely white bread suburbs.

  • ||

    Sour grape candy is pretty good.

    And i am pretty sure you could not give real sour grape candy to kids cuz of the alcohol content.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Children's Balsamic Candy. Copyright Playa Manhattan 2014.

    I'm open to offers.

  • Sevo||

    Hey! Would you guys quit stamping on the floor down there?

  • ||

    I really like Ocean Spray's CranGrape (Grape Cranberry Juice Drink) but it is kinda expensive here.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Tom Woods: "OK, I’ll Say It: Old Movies Are Unwatchable"

    http://tomwoods.com/blog/ok-il.....Ls.twitter

  • Aloysious||

    Why would he think anyone, and I mean anyone, cares about his opinion on this particular subject?

    Is he six years old and desperately in need of attention?

  • Banjos||

    So people are only allowed to write articles on their personal blog about their expertise? Man, someone has a horrible case of the assholes today. Did you wake up on the wrong side of Epi's mom's bed this morning?

  • Aloysious||

    Yes. She didn't shave, and I've got an uncomfortable friction burn.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Sounds like he doesn't have much of an attention span then. What, you need shit constantly blowing up on the screen and convoluted plot twists to stay interested?

  • Winston||

    If plot twists are all that is needed for a good film then why do people not like M. Night anymore?

  • Irish||

    Fuck you, Tom.

  • ||

    Meh.

    I'm constantly watching 'old movies' and I don't share this guy's take on them.

  • Trollo||

    (1) Plot twists are exceedingly rare.

    I guess Tom Woods has never watched a film noir.

  • lap83||

    Generally people who dismiss giant categories of anything have extremely limited knowledge of what they're talking about. i.e. one time he watched Casablanca because his wife made him, which caused him to be in a bad mood, and he sulked through the whole thing.

    It's like a little kid with brussel sprouts.

  • lap83||

    p.s. I made that example up, but I have a decent enough grasp of human nature to speculate

  • cavalier973||

    How could anyone possibly sulk through Casablanca?

  • Tejicano||

    talent envy?

  • Winston||

    I guess Tom Woods has never watched a film noir.

    Or a detective film.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    The role of MIT and JSTOR in the prosecution of Aaron Swarts

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/met.....story.html

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Why is slave girl Princess Leia the only Leia toy sold at Toys R Us? Jezebel is on it

    That's right little girls, if you want to play with a doll of one of the most iconic sci-fi heroines, you're going to have to play with most sexualized scantily-clad version of her. Throughout the Star Wars trilogy, Princess Leia wears at least 10 different outfits, ranging from regal to bounty hunter, but the new Hasbro Black Series toy line (launched in 2013 people) that is carried in a slew of toy retailers like Toys"R"Us could only bother to include a six-inch figurine of Leia in the "Slave Outfit."

    No. No no no no. This is a perfect and heart-breaking example of how ingrained sexism is in geek culture. It's not like there's a Chewbacca toy in a banana hammock. I do not care if they gave Leia a couple weapons. It doesn't take away from the fact that she's defined by her sexuality in the "Slave Outfit." Toys like this aren't harmless—they teach both boys and girls very skewed and fucked up ideas of gender values and power. They teach kids that it's totally cool that even the most iconic heroines can simply be relegated to sexy victims. AND THAT'S NOT OKAY.

    I sense a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of feminists cried out in impotent outrage....and nobody cared.

  • Irish||

    Of course, there's no evidence this is the only Leia figure sold at Toys R'Us. Basically, a woman was in one Toys R' Us and this was the only Leia figure she saw.

    Given that there are hundreds of Toys R' Us'es, the only way to know if this is the only Leia figure they sell would be to actually check with the Toys R' Us inventory department and see if they carry other Leias in different stores.

    This would require effort though, and Jezebel can't be required to do research before firing off a poorly written blog post.

    Related: Why are most Conan the Barbarian action figures shirtless?

    I feel that this is offensive to men such as myself who are jacked out of our minds.

  • ||

    "Related: Why are most Conan the Barbarian action figures shirtless?"

    Cuz' Howard and his fans have one foot out of the closet and the other one on a banana peel?

  • Irish||

    Robert E. Howard was clearly not gay. He never had a real girlfriend, was obsessed with his mother, and loved to write stories about big strapping young men swinging swords at each other and gallivanting about fairy kingdoms.

    None of those things are gay, so your argument is invalid.

  • ||

    You forgot to mention that he ate his gun in a fit of depression when his mother died.

    You are right. I don't know what I was thinking.

  • Irish||

    His Lovecraftian horror stories are pretty good, even if his Sword and Sorcery stuff tends to be ridiculously infantile.

    Worms of the Earth and Pigeons from Hell are both great, even though they have two of the most ludicrous titles I have ever seen.

  • ||

    I am pretty sure Steven King ripped off elements of Howard's 'House in the Oaks' for 'The Myst".

    I was in the second grade when I read that. It had a certain morbid appeal that got my imagination going.

    By the time I was starting Jr. High I had read everything that man had written. I had also figured out that he, personally, was a bit odd. All those things you listed earlier, I knew they meant something about him, but I was too young to know what.

  • prolefeed||

    Or they could have just done a google image search and found that most of the images there were of Leia in a white dress, but that would have required a different rant.

  • ||

    In their defense, my quick google search of the black series only turns up images of the slave outfit.

    Of course they completely overlook what Corning mentions below so fuck them.

  • sloopyinca||

    Tell those cunts that there's not even a Chewbacca doll that has any clothes on. If anybody is being sexually exploited, it's the wookiees.

  • ||

    Doesn't she like kill Jabba the hut in that costume with shear woman (maybe a bit of coke as well) power?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    She strangles the corpulent slug that kept a harem of scantily clad women with her chains. How much more metaphor do you need?

  • ||

    If Leia took a screenshot of sexist posts Jabba made on her facebook page and had one of her friends shame him anonymously by releasing the screenshots to the media then the jezables would have gotten what it all meant.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    I thought Princess Leia was bossy.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Ban it.

  • ||

    That was because she had a bad feeling about this.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    A recent photo of Carrie Fisher...you're welcome.

    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p1GW....._Show3.jpg

  • Irish||

    I don't know why she didn't play Jabba in the prequels.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    Damn you.

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    No, that's Jabba.

  • ||

    Is that really her?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    A recent photo of Isla Fisher...you're welcome.

    http://hdpaperwall.com/wp-cont.....eavage.jpg

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    She writes for Jezebel too?

  • Cyto||

    She wrote "Surrender the Pink". I didn't read it, but it doesn't really sound like Jezebel's cup of tea.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I looked up Hasbro Black Series and here's what I found:

    http://www.hasbro.com/shop/det.....3E23:en_US

    She's more fully clothed than the average college coed, based on my research.

  • ||

    What Corning said. Even for a Jezebel post this is derpy.

    Somebody posted this in the comments.

    I don't know the context, but that statement, by itself, is really retarded. Of course she wasn't supposed to talk -- she was a fucking slave.

  • cavalier973||

    I...thought that feminists...wanted to be known for their "sexual power", or something...

  • Irish||

    Josh Marshall is hilariously fucking stupid.

    I'm a little confused by this. Generally speaking when you throw someone under the bus and you want them to play along, you add as much padding to the process as possible. That doesn't appear to be the Chris Chrisitie way. The main fallperson turns out to be former deputy chief of staff Bridget Kelly. And the "report" prepared by Christie's lawyer not only places all the criminal liability on her (along with David Wildstein). It also goes out of its way to say that she is, to put it bluntly, emotionally unstable and loose.

    Let me get this straight. When Barack Obama lackeys release a report proclaiming that Barack Obama is pure as the driven snow and had no involvement in Benghazi coverup/Fast and Furious/IRS targeting then the issue is settled and anyone who thinks this might be bullshit is a wingnut who just can't except the facts.

    When Chris Christie lackeys release a report proclaiming that Christie is pure as the driven snow and had nothing to do with Bridgeghazi, this is just evidence that Christie is a Tony Soprano-like villain who will stop at nothing to slut shame an innocent woman.

    Sidenote: Isn't comparing Christie to Tony Soprano a racist dog-whistle against Italian people?

  • ||

    I think Obama's Benghazi fall guys are either dead by terrorist or in jail for filming a youtube video.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Yeah, best to avoid stereotypical Mafia references. How about this:

    Bridget Kelly was the monkey, Christie was the organ grinder.

  • Irish||

    Chris Christie chewed Bridget Kelly up like so much cannoli.

    Insulting to Italians and the obese!

  • ||

    Now the 'fat' references annoy me. Not too long ago The Economist had a stat with the averages weight of Europeans. Italy was the second lightest country behind Holland.

    I myself are a lean, athletic feller. Which was sometimes problematic in hockey.

    Meh.

  • ||

    Is Chris Christie even Italian? Because "Christie" doesn't sound too Italian to me (unless it was Anglicized). People know that not every fucking person in Jersey is Italian, right?

  • Irish||

    His mother was Italian.

  • ||

    As a person born in Jersey whose mother is Italian, I find that offensive! Now hand me that spicy meat-a-ball!

    On a more serious note, I bought a Calabrian cheese today called Manteche which is a provolone surrounding a ball of solid butter. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

  • ||

    Interesting. My father is Calabrese and usually are aware of most products from there but never heard of that one.

    Mind you, I don't like cheese. Sooo....

  • ||

    Don't like cheese?!? What else don't you like, braciole?

  • ||

    Braciole is God's food. I make my own.

    I just bought a Calabrese crema di peperencino today. Hot dammit.

  • seguin||

    An Italian that doesn't like formaggio?

    Che cazzo??

  • ||

    Che cazzo da vero.

    I like some cheeses but I don't digest them all that well.

    My favorite is ricotta (that shit in pasta is awesome) but it ravages me.

  • ||

    Like Springsteen.

  • ||

    Mafia references don't bother me. Yeah, I know less than 1% of Italians are in the Mafia but it's still part of the culture. It's no different with the Irish or Colombians or whatever but it's true popular mob figures in pop culture are mostly of the Italic extract - so the references.

    What can you do?

  • Irish||

    I don't think the mafia comparisons are offensive. I just think that if, I don't know, a conservative compared Obama to a member of the Bloods progressives might have a problem with that.

    I just think scumbag, mouth breathing progs like Marshall should be held to their own horseshit standards.

  • ||

    Yeah.

    Interestingly, the Italian community tended to be very bashful (in Canada anyway) when it came to vocalizing perceived stereotypes against them historically. Recently, some groups have begun to jump on the PC wagon but I don't think an assimilated group like 3rd generation wops like me are too concerned.

    Their silence did hurt them in the sense we rarely hear about Italian internment and curfews imposed on them during the Second World War. That irks me. Granted, not in large numbers like the Japanese but significant enough across the continent.

    Just like Ukrainian and German internment.

  • ||

    Like Irish, why avoid the mafia references? We call the government legalized mafia all the time, no?

  • ||

    Meh. Again.

    I constantly hear subtle jabs against I-talians.

    As a member of that tribe all I can say and think is 'suck my balls.'

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Which four-word phrase are you less likely to hear from Christie: "vote for Rand Paul" or "no, thank, I'm full"?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    no thanks

  • ||

    What about 'I tried Herbal Magic?'

  • Tony||

    That's a virtual Republican cock bouquet you're fellating.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "Labeling those who call out media bias as opportunists turns truth on its head. While Goldberg and Stossel (and perhaps now Attkisson) did not suffer for their candor the fact is the media practices de facto segregation when it comes to politics.

    "Anyone who wants to stay on the mainstream media gravy train either agrees with the industry’s liberal groupthink or keeps their mouths shut. Those few who do speak out about it are more or less ostracized and forced to seek employment elsewhere."

    http://www.commentarymagazine......ce=twitter

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Anyone here from Chicago? The taxi lobby thinks they've found a legislative body more corrupt than the Chicago board of aldermen:

    "A bill before the Illinois House of Representatives, House Bill 4075, would impose restrictions on ridesharing statewide – but really would only affect Chicago, the only Illinois city where ridesharing services operate.

    It’s a clever move by the industry: most state legislators’ constituents have never used UberX or Lyft, so those legislators, unlike Chicago aldermen, may not get much pushback if they vote to restrict ridesharing....

    "Here are six of the bill’s worst features....

    "1. No pickups or drop-offs at airports and convention centers...

    "2. An arbitrary vehicle age limit...

    "3. Price controls...

    "4. Discrimination against electronic tipping...

    "5. Limited driver hours...

    "6. This is not the state government’s business..."

    http://illinoispolicy.org/the-.....aring-law/

  • Paul.||

    Every time I see this happen in, well, every city in America where there are actual cabs, I think to myself... there but for the grace of God went a bunch of young, idealistic start-up types who believed in innovation and... probably voted for Barack Obama.

  • Tejicano||

    Sometimes I wonder why a similar percentage of the girls I dated - back when I was dating - could not have been so seriously gullible. It's like they live their lives in preparation for his next lie.

  • Hyperion||

    Look, I'm gonna wear me a vagina pink colored hat and shriek like an unhinged harpy, so that makes me right! Are you listening to me?! Are you!? You better listen to me, or I'll shriek louder!

  • NSA Corey||

    DOes anyone know where I can find a good paying job that I can do from my Pc

  • ||

    I really don't understand the appeal of 'working from your pc'. To me that does not translate to not working hard.

    I have known people who worked from home on their pcs for web companies. They got paid well but they slaved their asses off for 14-16 hours per day.

  • lap83||

    I work as a freelancer and the appeal is definitely not in the level of hard work. The appeal is in having a modicum of control in your career, not having to deal with office politics, etc. But you have to work harder as a trade off.

    I don't think I'd want to be an employee and work from home, though. From what I've heard your boss values your time a lot less since you're assumed to be always at your office. That sounds like hell.

  • ||

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....companies/

    They should do this to the CBC. I remember going into the CBC building years ago and seeing all those Bimmers in the parking lot. Pissed me off.

  • Irish||

    Better idea: No government run companies.

  • Archduke von Pantsfan||

    From 2012
    The CBC has more than 700 staff on the payroll making $100,000 annually, the public broadcaster revealed to a Conservative MP who had asked for salary details of top CBC executives and on-air staff.

  • Trollo||

    So I took the bait and went to Raw Story to have a quick look around. As a H&R habitué naturally I gravitated to the article about how a new food truck ordinance in Birmingham, Alabama has banned churches from feeding the poor and homeless. The progtards IN THE COMMENTS all "know" Birmingham is ruled by the Teathuglican White-Right 'cause ALABAMA!11!

  • Sidd Finch||

    That's a spectacular failure of American Demographics 101.

  • Irish||

  • Tejicano||

    Irish, you have to know what the average prog's reaction would be to those statistics : "Look how that 22% (the whites) continues to hold down the black man where he/she makes up 73% of the population.

  • Trollo||

    Yup

  • Wasteland Wanderer||

    I'm very tempted to go and troll the shit out of those comments...

  • Paul.||

    Government run companies... aren't they just called government?

  • ||

    In keeping with the Italian theme, if you want to watch a good movie about Italian politics (and how it weaves into a culture) 'Il Divo' is wicked good.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_Divo_(film)

  • ||

    Now I know IQ is junk. Madonna allegedly has an IQ of 140.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    She may have a 16 Intelligence, but she only has a 5 Wisdom.

  • Paul.||

    I would reverse those.

  • PH2050||

    What an entertaining episode! I originally missed it so I'm glad I was able to catch the re-run. However, I think Kennedy's question ignored one pertinent option: Biology and Technology combined, Man merging with Machine...Synthesis.

    I could watch these three people discuss anything. Foster, Kennedy, Welch: my new favorite talking heads on the teevee.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Riu doing well so far.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    He'd be a number 1 starter on most pitching staffs. Unfortunately the word on Kershaw isn't good. They still aren't sure how serious his injury is.

  • ||

    Yup.

    They got out of that jam early; especially with Ramirez cutting off Puig's throw to third in the 1st was it?

  • ||

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Why not? Rich people are greedy and selfish. So limiting the deductibility of their charitable donations won't in the least affect their selfless giving. Anyway, the poor can take care of themselves in this humming economy, and if they can't, there are government programs for them which the rich can pay for!

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I know - why not limit how much the rich give to the poor in taxes, that makes just as much sense from the helping-the-poor standpoint!

  • Irish||

    Letting people give their own money to worthy causes is a libertarian scheme to deprive the noble and benevolent government of the infinity dollars necessary to bring about utopia.

  • Sevo||

    "Letting people give their own money to worthy causes is a libertarian scheme to deprive the noble and benevolent government of the infinity dollars necessary to bring about utopia."

    Not to mention reducing the gov't vig!

  • ||

    I've noticed Yahoo commenters are decidedly not fond of Obama.

  • ||

    I am just amazed Yahoo still exists let alone has commenters.

  • ||

    Their comment censorship bot is hilarious: it !@#$ words which are used in their articles, so if someone quotes them, can get censored.

  • Trollo||

    My primary email is a yahoo account I've had since '98.

  • ||

    Thoughts on Craig Ferguson?

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    I think he's hilarious. Much funnier than Letterman.

    Or are you asking for an opinion on something he recently did that I have yet to hear about?

  • ||

    I saw him live last night. Interesting. My wife got the tickets. What little I saw of his talk show, I liked.

    Just curious what people thought.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    He goes back to playing Drew Carey's evil boss in the early seasons of The Drew Carey Show. He was funny there too.

    In fact tomorrow night Drew Carey will host The Late Late Show and and the next morning on April Fool's Day Craig Ferguson will host The Price is Right.

  • lap83||

    I haven't watched his show in awhile, as I now only use my TV for movies and video games. But I loved him when I did watch TV.

  • ||

    You do realize that TV is better then movies right now.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Evaluating teachers based on student performance is right-wing corporate ploy to demoralize, divide, and eventually break teachers' unions

    Ostensibly, it is designed to improve public schools by holding teachers accountable. However, by failing to take into account several factors that impede student learning and over which teachers have no control, this policy is, in essence, a punitive measure that demoralizes teachers and drives many of them out of the teaching profession. The result will be the increasing privatization of education and the destruction of America’s public schools.

    Moreover, when linked to merit pay, a divide-and-conquer strategy to pit teacher against teacher, this evaluation will also weaken the National Education Association, the nation’s largest labor union with its more than three million members, a development not unwelcome to corporate America.

    How can public schools, many of which are located in inner-city poverty zones of crime, unemployment, poor housing and drugs, be realistically expected to educate children in such hopeless conditions, when city, state and federal government walked away from these inner cities decades ago?

    Maybe we could turn over education to self-interested parties with an incentive to produce quality results? That seems to be working for inner city kids.

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    "weaken the National Education Association, the nation’s largest labor union with its more than three million members, a development not unwelcome to corporate America."

    Corporate America would also be pleased with a cure for cancer, which isn't an argument for cancer.

  • ||

    More self-interested than unionized teachers?

  • Sevo||

    "More self-interested than unionized teachers?"

    Absolutely! The teachers are angelic figures interested only in educating our precious snowflakes!

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Shush! Those teachers and delegates are saints molded from much finer clay than us peons!

    They would never let their self-interest in achieving better job security, benefits, and pension result in the creation of a hugely dysfunctional public education bureaucracy.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Holy Jesus:

    The richest nation in the world, the City on the Mountain, has become a third-world country for more than 46 million of its people, who go to bed hungry!

    This isn't some Rawtard comment, this is from the author of the original piece.

    The poor in the US have it as bad as the poor in Uganda or India.

  • Sevo||

    "The richest nation in the world, the City on the Mountain, has become a third-world country for more than 46 million of its people, who go to bed hungry!"

    Bull
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    shit:

    "In 2012, 49.0 million Americans lived in food insecure households,"
    http://feedingamerica.org/hung.....stics.aspx

    "Food Insecurity and Hunger in the United States: An Assessment of the Measure ( 2006 ) /"
    [...]
    "The discovery that people frequently did not have enough to eat according to accepted cultural norms created a conceptual crisis."
    http://www.nap.edu/openbook.ph.....78&page=43

    Pretty much if you were hungry when you went to bed sometime last year, you are 'food insecure'.
    Well, I can remember coming home in such a shape I never got around to eating before I passed out, so, I guess I qualified.

  • Irish||

    I also love this:

    "The richest nation in the world, the City on the Mountain, has become a third-world country for more than 46 million of its people, who go to bed hungry!"

    "We're the richest country in the world, therefore we should get rid of the policies that made us wealthy and adopt the policies of nations that are far poorer than we are."

    Jesus wept.

  • Irish||

    This isn't some Rawtard comment, this is from the author of the original piece.

    I think it's cute that you think there's a difference between the intelligence of rawstory commenters and the writers.

    Marcotte will sometimes comment on her own articles on that site. Not only is she not more intelligent than the idiots who comment there, she is noticeably dumber.

    The fact that progressives still haven't realized they're being lied to and that 'food insecurity' is a bullshit metric tells you all you need to know about their intelligence. Food insecurity is to actual hunger as a stubbed toe is to the Holocaust.

  • Dances-with-Trolls||

    more than 46 million of its people, who go to bed hungry!

    What complete and utter bullshit. A person in America has to be like, pathologically lazy to go hungry in America. There are so many resources for food assistance one could get fat utilizing them.

    It's a slap in the face to the people in this world who live in fucked up places where it actually is possible to go hungry or starve. I'm sure they'd love hearing all about our hunger problems.

    Fuck.

  • Irish||

    If there were no government assistance whatsoever, the poor in America could still be fed entirely through food banks.

    Food banks are heavily under-utilized because the poor don't need to use them since they can just get food stamps. As a result, the vast majority of food given to food banks ends up rotting and getting thrown out because not enough people go there.

    It's actually incredibly wasteful. I worked at a food pantry where the proprietor got angry because the local Jewel started giving them free bread. She flat out said that all the bread was going to be thrown out because not enough people would come. Basically, Jewel giving that bread to the pantry just increased our workload because we had to shelve it and throw it out once it started to go bad.

    It was actually nice working there because they'd give me bread and lunch meat every time I went, which was nice as a college student. So few poor people went to a well stocked public food pantry that the workers ended up taking home large amounts of food, and yet progs are still convinced we have a hunger crisis.

  • Rich||

    I'm sure they'd love hearing all about our hunger problems.

    Like "food deserts".

  • Irish||

    Like "food deserts".

    Food deserts are a great example of progressives not understanding supply and demand. They get causation backwards. They think people in the inner cities are unhealthy because there's no fresh food, but actually there's no fresh food because they're unhealthy.

    If there were any demand for fresh produce in inner city Chicago, there would be produce aisles. There aren't produce aisles because there's no demand for fresh food in those areas.

    Philadelphia tried to make fresh produce available in inner cities, and no one bought it. It's an issue of people in those areas choosing bad diets, which results in stores not carrying healthy groceries.

  • Rich||

    there's no fresh food because they're unhealthy.

    And they're unhealthy because the government, in its callous indiffernece, fails to educate them about proper nutrition.

    Am I starting to get it?

  • Rich||

    *indifference, *

  • Irish||

    And they're unhealthy because the government, in its callous indiffernece, fails to educate them about proper nutrition.

    According to progressives, black people are far too stupid to know that McDonalds is bad for them without noble white progressives coming to inform them.

    Truly, it is the white progressives burden to educate the poor benighted natives. In no way is this racist or colonialist thinking. They're progressives, and therefore can never be racist.

  • ||

    Leaving aside the fact that McDonalds isn't actually bad for you.

  • Sevo||

    "Leaving aside the fact that McDonalds isn't actually bad for you."

    I'm sure a dedicated lefty twit could find enough on the Micky D menu to get fat with enough effort.
    And make a movie about his stupidity (although it wasn't pitched that way).

  • Dweebston||

    Spurlock did. His "Supersize Me" diet was an average 5000 calorie/day bonanza involving milkshakes, soft drinks, and copious fries. All of which, if you follow the carb-insulin-fat storage theory, is geared toward weight accumulation.

  • Tejicano||

    I like to imagine what he could have done if he had been lifting heavy through all that.

    "Yeah, I put on 50 lbs but now I'm benching 370 and can deadlift a big block Chevy V8."

  • PapayaSF||

    And they're unhealthy because the government, in its callous indifference, fails to educate them about proper nutrition.

    IF ONLY there were some sort of widespread, free, government-funded, unionized program that could inform people about nutrition. We could call them "public schools."

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    Mmmm...food desserts...*drool*...

  • ||

    Although Theodore Dalrymple is no libertarian, he has something to say about 'food deserts'.

    [...]

    Recently, at a lunch I attended, given by a left-wing magazine to which I sometimes contribute, the matter of food poverty and food deserts came up, and it was with some pride that I heard an area, not more than a mile from where I live, described as the very worst of these deserts, positively the Atacama of food.

    As the only person present with personal knowledge—what Bertrand Russell used to call “knowledge by acquaintance”—of the area in question, I felt constrained to point out that I frequently shopped there, at a small Indian store in which one could buy, for example, 22-pound sacks of onions for about $3.40, and in which a huge variety of extremely fresh vegetables could be bought at prices less than half of those in the supermarket chains. Yet the only poor people who shopped there were Indian immigrants or their descendants—housewives who sifted through the produce looking carefully for the best. Practically no poor whites (or blacks) ever went there, though plenty of both live in the area. Only a few members of the white middle class from outside the area took advantage of the wide range and exceptionally low prices.

  • ||

    Moreover, unlike the people who spoke so fluently of the food deserts, I had, in the course of my medical duties, visited many homes in the area. The only homes in which there were ever any signs of genuine cookery and of eating as a social activity, where families discussed the topics of daily life and affirmed their bonds to one another, were those of the Indian immigrants. In white and black homes, cookery meant (at its best) re-heating in a microwave oven, and there was no table round which people could sit together to eat the re-heated food. Meals here were solitary, poor, nasty, British, and short.

    [...]

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Meals here were solitary, poor, nasty, British, and short.

    That made me smile.

  • Tejicano||

    "Meals here were solitary, poor, nasty, British, and short."

    Yup. Funny.

  • PapayaSF||

    Dalrymple is always good, even if he's not libertarian.

  • Sevo||

    "It's a slap in the face to the people in this world who live in fucked up places where it actually is possible to go hungry or starve. I'm sure they'd love hearing all about our hunger problems."

    Trivializing real problems is the only path remaining for asshole lefties; they can only insult those who really do have problems.
    Godwin cut off Holocaust references by making them (properly) shameful; hunger, rape, murder, poverty all need a Godwin.

  • Tejicano||

    I find the progs delusional instinct to deify the third world and its ethnicities - in spite of their total, utter lack of understanding of same - to be as annoying as it is pathetically entertaining.

  • Tejicano||

    Speaking of food - I just had a "no shit" moment while fixing lunch.

    I had a leftover dish (turkey with sliced chiles, onions, and potatoes in a red Chipotle salsa) that just wasn't that good. Couldn't figure it out.

    So I chopped up a couple strips of bacon, fried those up and dumped in a little homemade Pico de Gallo before dropping in some of the turkey dish. Oh hey! Rolled it up in a Burrito and declared it "fixed".

  • PapayaSF||

    There you go.

    A while ago the g.f. made roast beef with onions and potatoes for dinner. Tasty, if rather old-fashioned and middle-American compared to her usual cooking. The next morning I chopped up the leftovers and fried them in some butter for the Best Hash Ever.

  • Tejicano||

    Yup. For the longest time I had gone with the "common wisdom" of low-fat cooking and am still trying to shake that.

    Most of my cooking (almost all Mexican) has always gotten its flavor from chiles and spices but sometimes a little fat really goes a long way.

  • PapayaSF||

    Fat is flavor, as they say. And note that the modern obesity epidemic started right around the time they decided fat was bad. A recent study even found that drinkers of low-fat milk gained more weight than drinkers of full-fat milk.

  • Rich||

    There is only government’s failed policy of “benign neglect” that has blighted the inner cities and their schools for generations. It is the horrendous effects of this callous indifference that have consigned millions of school children to their present fate

    So, are you going to make "a modest proposal", or what?

  • Notorious G.K.C.||

    I actually agree about the callous indifference of the government, I just don't share their blindness when it comes to recognizing government schools as part of the government.

  • Sidd Finch||

    when city, state and federal government walked away from these inner cities decades ago?

    City government walked away from inner cities?

  • Rich||

    Actually, they rode the light rail.

  • Sevo||

    On my subsidy, damn it!

  • Sidd Finch||

    I do agree though that evaluating teachers by student performance is going to be counterproductive (except in extreme cases) because there's a lot more variation in the students than the teachers.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't think it's the variation as much as the fact that teachers are forced to have students in their classrooms who don't want to be there.

  • Sidd Finch||

    The black lady steals the show in all those clips.

  • Rich||

    "Test kids on *what they know*, not on *what we want them to know*!"

  • ||

    I am not sure I understand why corporate america gives a shit one way or another about teacher's unions.

    Aren't the teacher's unions some of the largest stock holders of large corporations? Isn't that how they fund their pensions?

    I have a confuse.

  • PapayaSF||

    when city, state and federal government walked away from these inner cities decades ago

    Actually, all those levels of government decided to apply leftist "cures" for inner-city ills decades ago, and that is precisely why there are so many children in hopeless conditions today. If they really did "walk away," things would eventually improve.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    Goddamnit, Brian Wilson.

  • Sevo||

    Head case when he threw up north; no one predicted he'd get better for more money.

  • Grand Moff Serious Man||

    I'm not going to overreact in the third game of the season, but $10 million for 16 innings is absurd.

    Bullpen is still deepest in the league though with Chris Perez as your second option for a set-up man.

  • Sidd Finch||

    Bri-an Wil-son

    clap clap clapclapclap

  • Dweebston||

    A relative is spectating police confrontations with protestors marching over the recent shooting by APD of a vagrant. Apparently SWAT teams are out in force trying to corral the mob.

  • Dweebston||

    They're home safely, although his girlfriend took a faceful of tear gas. The restaurant they had patronized was locked down by cops while they dealt with protestors in the street outside.

    Oh, and Anonymous defaced the APD website.

  • Tejicano||

    wow... right in ABQ. (tear gas, mace, or pepper spray? - quite a big difference between them)

    What restaurant was that?

  • Dweebston||

    I know, right? Most of the action he described occurred right outside the Frontier, but from the sound of it the demonstrations spanned from Downtown outside the APD HQ to the university area.

    No idea what the ordinance was. Apparently they were throwing canisters around, and she happened to get hit with a cloud of it.

  • Tejicano||

    From downtown to the university area - along Central or Lomas? Either way that would be a huge crowd.

    I have a step-brother who lives around Mountain and 5th/4th.

    I wonder if this is going to get any real traction with the APD or if the higher ups will wave it away as restless kids?

  • Dweebston||

    Sorry. I meant the crowd was moving/being moved along Central, as best I can tell. I doubt any more than a few hundred showed up, but by the end of it APD was driving around several SWAT vans and mounted units to contain the festivities.

    I'd love to think this has legs, but the chief was only just appointed within the past month. Maybe the shooter gets shitcanned, but I'm not terribly optimistic. This is our ~37th police-assisted suicide in the past four years, and even having the DOJ involves has warranted little follow-up.

    Your brother's right around the corner from my old employer. Of course, Albuquerque always has a small-town feel.

  • Paul.||

    If a jury can acquit officers who beat an unarmed, prostrate Kelly Thomas to death, on video, my fear is it's going to take a LOT more before the general public gets upset. A LOT more.

  • Paul.||

    According to APD, it was an unlawful assembly.

  • PapayaSF||

    So, has anyone heard anything about some sort of cable TV talk show with Reason people? They really ought to mention it around here.

  • Tejicano||

    Nebba happon Jee Ai.

  • Winston||

    I'm waiting for the Sheldon Richman articles on Kim Il-Sung's heroic defence against US aggression and how Mao invaded for self-defense purposes and condemning the US war of aggression and regime change against democratically elected Marshal Petain and his replacement by the un-elected Communist-allied Imperialist-statist American puppet Charles de Gaulle.

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