Defense Portrays George Zimmerman As a Pudgy Pussy

Video via The Orlando SentinelVideo via The Orlando SentinelThis morning Judge Debra Nelson made two rulings favoring the prosecution in George Zimmerman's murder trial. Nelson said the defense may not introduce an animated re-enactment of the fight between Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin as evidence, although it can be used for illustrative purposes while making an argument. She also excluded text messages recovered from Martin's phone that discussed fighting, which the defense wanted to introduce as evidence that Martin had experience in physical altercations.

On Monday, by contrast, Nelson said she would allow the defense to introduce evidence that Martin had trace amounts of THC in his blood when he died. So far the defense has not taken advantage of that ruling. When forensic pathologist Vincent De Maio testified yesterday, for example, the defense did not ask him about Martin's marijuana consumption. That is probably just as well, since the amount of THC found in Martin's blood—1.5 nanograms per milliliter—was so small that it cannot plausibly be cited as a source of impairment or a factor in how Martin responded to Zimmerman. By comparison, both Colorado and Washington now have a cutoff of five nanograms (more than three times the level in Martin's blood) for driving under the influence of a drug, and even that level is not a reliable indicator of impairment. In addition to being irrelevant, talking about Martin's pot smoking would run the risk of alienating the jury by appearing to impugn the dead teenager's character.

Today the defense is presenting testimony from private investigator Dennis Root, who among other things has noted that Martin was in better physical shape and more athletic than Zimmerman. On Monday a trainer who worked with Zimmerman at a gym where he was a member for about a year, Adam Pollock, likewise emphasized that Zimmerman was a "rank beginner" in grappling and boxing, working hard and losing weight but never acquiring skills that would be useful in a fight. In short, the defense is portraying Zimmerman as a pudgy pussy in an effort to counter the impression that he was "twice the size" of Martin (as a reader erroneously claimed in response to my column today) and therefore could not have reasonably feared serious injury or death as a result of an assault by the teenager. At the time of the shooting, Zimmerman was about 20 pounds heavier than Martin, who was four inches taller. It is not hard to imagine how a younger, fitter person could have gotten the better of him in a fight.

Speaking of which, De Maio yesterday testified that evidence from Martin's clothing and his chest wound indicated Martin was bending over Zimmerman when he was shot. The best that the prosecution could do to counter that testimony during cross-examination was to ask whether it was possible that Martin was getting off Zimmerman at the moment he was shot. Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda also asked Di Maio whether the scrapes on the back of Zimmerman's head could have been caused by a tree branch instead of contact with a concrete sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims. Yes, said Di Maio, but "you'd have to have a tree branch there, and I didn't see any." Add to the medical evidence the fact that the back of Zimmerman's jacket was wet and covered with grass, and you have a pretty solid basis for believing the neighbor who reported seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman right before the gunshot and doubting the two neighbors who suggested that Zimmerman was on top at that point. 

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  • Dweebston||

    If only Martin had boxed Zimmerman's mouth a bit, we could talk about the pudgy pussy with the fat lips.

  • Drake||

    The Defense has kept the THC data in their back pocket. I think during the call to police Zimmerman told them he thought the kid was on drugs. If the Prosecution were to use this as a sign of profiling or racism, the Defense could simply use the blood test to prove that Zimmerman was right.

  • ||

    Yes, because as we all know, being stoned (not that 1.5 nanograms would indicate being stoned much at all) makes one super aggressive. Dave's not here, man. They didn't use it because there's nothing to use. Which was smart.

    This entire case is just KULTUR WAR masturbation, and you can easily predict where most morons will land in terms of what they think happened and who they support. How incredibly jejune and tedious.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I found it a little odd that Martin's prior fights are inadmissible, which could be used to show a propensity for violence (whether that's more prejudicial than probative is another question), but some mild intoxication is admissible.

    I think it's fairly likely, given what's on the table so far, that Martin initiated the violence, but I doubt seriously he did because he'd done some pot.

  • ||

    I have no opinion on what happened one way or the other, as 1) I wasn't there, 2) I'm not on the jury, and 3) I don't give a shit and have no interest in getting a KULTUR WAR boner on. The degree to which people have emotionally invested in this case is repulsive. Get a fucking life, people.

  • sloopyinca||

    Get a fucking life, people.

    No, you get a life.

  • ||

    I'm trying! The eczema makes it really hard!

  • Pro Libertate||

    Well, taking sides is silly in this as far as who is worse, Zimmerman or Martin. Opposing the state overreach is another matter altogether. The fucking president fanned the flames here, as did the media. It's really sick shit.

  • sloopyinca||

    I've only had a fleeting interest in this case, as I'm too fucking busy at work and I just don't know enough about it. That said, there's been an inordinate amount of politicism of this case, from the media to the DA to the President and back around to the threats of violence if the jury finds him not guilty. It's fucking OJ Simpson all over again.

    My fear is that the judge is so far in over her depth and is ruling in an inconsistent manner on what evidence she'll allow that however this case ends up (I'm thinking acquittal based on what I've seen), it'll end up in the appeals process for a decade and this man will never enjoy a real level of freedom again.

  • Bobarian||

    Well...

    Aquittals can't be appealed.

  • sloopyinca||

    [bangs gavel]
    The People of The United States vs George Zimmerman. Mr Zimmerman, you are being charged with the federal crime of depriving the civil rights of one Trayvon Martin. How do you plead?

  • Pro Libertate||

    No case there, either. And I doubt that would be a popular move.

  • sloopyinca||

    Shit, why wouldn't the President's justice department want justice for a boy that looks like his unborn son?

  • Pro Libertate||

    Yeah, if he's acquitted, it's over. Except for maybe a civil case, but the evidence sucks for that, too.

  • sloopyinca||

    Drake's right. Either the prosecution has to tow the company line and say Devil Weed was in his system and we all know that causes violence or they'd have to argue against the way they've presented every other case involving drugs in a defendant's system and say it had no effect.

    The defense has the state by the ballsack on this one. I'm quite enjoying it.

  • ||

    Either the prosecution has to tow the company line and say Devil Weed was in his system and we all know that causes violence or they'd have to argue against the way they've presented every other case involving drugs in a defendant's system and say it had no effect.

    I made almost this exact same comment on Facebook when I found out the THC numbers were admissable. This is all quite amusing :)

  • Bobarian||

    C'mon people, get it right, it is either 'tow the lion' or 'toe the line'.

    Your messing with important memes here.

  • RBS||

    Toe the lion.

  • Dweebston||

    Perverse. Get off this thread.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Episiarch,

    This entire case is just KULTUR WAR masturbation, and you can easily predict where most morons will land in terms of what they think happened and who they support.


    You should read the tweets that viewers send to Piers Morgan or Nancy Grace when they talk about this case. They're very enlightening about the sort of people that still watch CNN or, at least, those two bozos.

    One pearl, for instance, asks how can Zimmerman plea self-defense when he's like "four times the size of Trayvon?"

  • ||

    The NBC coverage of this that I've seen has been hilariously slanted and, well, CNN's gonna CNN.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Aggressive, no, but paranoid, potentially. Which, insofar as he was being followed, might make a difference. What a normal person might not have worried about, he may have found unjustifiably threatening.

  • Locke||

    I'd say he has at least a little justification for being paranoid. His neighbor had her house broken into with her children present. It certainly doesn't foster ill-will or hatred to keep an eye on someone you don't recognize and who looks suspicious

  • Omni||

    "Yes, because as we all know, being stoned (not that 1.5 nanograms would indicate being stoned much at all) makes one super aggressive."

    But they wouldn't be arguing that it was the weed that made him aggressive, but that it was what made him look like he was on drugs, which was part of what made Zimmerman suspicious. Remember that people seem to think he deserves to go to jail because he follow a black kid without cause (I've heard this 3 times today). You have to really explain what made him "suspicious". It goes to behavior, not towards the fighting.

  • Almanian!||

    NOT GUILTY

    Next case

  • Cancer||

    Sullum, I am disappoint in your choice of verbiage for this headline. It is crude; it is rude; it is profoundly unladylike.

    The defense always--unfailingly--refers to Zimmerman as "a Big Fat Vag" in the confines of lawyer-client interaction.

    Let us call things by their proper names!

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Of course he is a pudgy pussy. He was carrying so obviously he was feeling inadequate about something, no? (This should be a line of reasoning both sides of the trial can enjoy.)

  • kinnath||

    If jury deliberation takes more than 30 minutes, Zimmerman is fucked.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Not at all. Long deliberations can happen even in easy cases. All it takes is for someone to hold out or for something to be bugging the jurors that actually isn't that material but keeps them arguing.

  • kinnath||

    Pithy, ProLib. Your response is supposed to be short and pithy, not substantial and insightful.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Son of a bitch must pay.

  • kinnath||

    +1

  • John||

    . Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda also asked Di Maio whether the scrapes on the back of Zimmerman's head could have been caused by a tree branch instead of contact with a concrete sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims. Yes, said Di Maio, but "you'd have to have a tree branch there, and I didn't see any."

    Never ask a question in court that you don't already know the answer to.

  • tarran||

    Is it just me, or is the prosecution trying to create reasonable doubt over the question of whether Zimmerman is not guilty?

    They keep acting like they are on defense...

  • John||

    It sure seems like it. That is the kind of question a defense attorney would ask. Yeah, it could of come from a lot of things. Its the government's burden to prove how it actually happened.

  • Brett L||

    These guys are totally throwing the case. They know they the State's Attorney had to charge him to get re-elected, but they're just going through the motions.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I agree. From a strictly legal perspective, I doubt they ever wanted to take this case at all, let alone an unprovable murder case.

  • Hash Brown||

    IANAlitigator, but even if you're pissed that your lame-ass boss caved to political pressure and ordered you to bring this case, would your normal MUST WIN instincts kick in at some point? I normally think of prosecutors as the worst when it comes to must-bitch-slap-the-other-side-at-all-costs competitiveness.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Maybe, but consider that the cops were on Zimmerman's side, and are annoyed at being painted as racists in not charging him.

    Prosecution and cops are basically the same team, whatever the case is supposed to be, so the case catastrophically failing makes the cops' decision seem wise in retrospect, and makes the political ladder climbers in the DA's office (not to mention the media and race baiters) look like idiots and assholes.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Had they not charged Zimmerman, people would have gone fucking nuts, and a good segment of those people would have rioted about RACIZM and GUNZ. This was an attempt at staving off those riots.

    Little do they know that a NG verdict is going to give them the same thing because this trial has already been tried in the media, and Zimmerman lost before Trayvon's body was cold.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    His question about how much Di Maio is getting paid, in an attempt to make him look like a hired gun, really made de la Rionda looking like a 1L retard.

  • Pro Libertate||

    That can backfire, as the jury could think, "Wow, that's a lot of money. This guy must really know his shit."

  • John||

    If I were the judge I wouldn't have allowed that. I don't see how the amount is relevant. Just ask if they are being paid and move on.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Exactly. The fact that he's being paid should absolutely be brought up. It's not like most experts aren't shading their opinion for the side paying them, anyway.

  • Hash Brown||

    Maybe "pudgy pussy" will replace "eggshell skull" in law-school hypotheticals.

  • What's that smell?||

    But,but,but,but... he's white (at least half!!) therefore he is an evil giant oppressor who preys on angelic children of color. It is in his hateful genes to be an accomplished fighter. To think otherwise is purely racist!!!!

  • Scarecrow Repair||

    You think TV is 100% African heritage?

  • Zeb||

    Just like the president.

  • Paul.||

    . Nelson said the defense may not introduce an animated re-enactment of the fight between Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin as evidence,

    I'd agree with that. That can be powerful in a jury's eyes, in that they'd take something manufactured by one party of the trial as fact.

    She also excluded text messages recovered from Martin's phone that discussed fighting, which the defense wanted to introduce as evidence that Martin had experience in physical altercations.

    These are always tricky. Martin was a known brawler. Seems sucky for the defense that they can't introduce the fact that the guy was quick to throw a punch. But evidence, vacuum and all that.

  • sloopyinca||

    I thought "pattern of behavior" was a tool prosecutors routinely used in court to make a defendant look bad. I fail to see why it can't be employed as a defense tool to show the alleged victim of a crime being prosecuted was known to be an aggressive party in several fights.

  • Paul.||

    Famed defense attorney Mark Gregagos talks about this very thing extensively on the Adam Carolla podcast, about how prosecutors seem to be able to use pattern of behavior, but defense attorney's tend to get their wings clipped on that issue.

  • MasterDarque||

    lol known brawler - so kids that get in fight in school are now natural born killers - you clowns kill me

  • RBS||

    Who said he was killer?

  • SugarFree||

    If Zimmerman didn't "fear for his life" his claim of self-defense falls apart, or it has to be judged under "stand your ground" which destroys both strawman narratives (Zimmerman stalked and murder Martin in cold blood / Zimmerman was la-di-da walking down the street and drug-up thug Martin attacked him for no raisin!).

  • Paul.||

    C-

  • ||

    You guys should consider whether you want to respond to an obvious, obvious sockpuppet.

  • Paul.||

    Hey, I have the right to grade the sockpuppet.

  • Zeb||

    You also have the right to cut your own dick off. Just an observation.

  • sloopyinca||

    Do you? I thought self-mutilation was a crime. I know if one cuts their own dick off in an attempt to kill themself then they've committed a crime, as suicide is illegal.

  • Zeb||

    Well, you should, anyway. I will fight for your right to cut your own dick off.

  • Paul.||

    You also have the right to cut your own dick off. Just an observation.

    I'm the East German judge of his sockpuppetry.

    OT: How long will it be before a new generation won't even get that joke?

  • Generic Stranger||

    Ten years ago.

  • sloopyinca||

    I was just questioning the way the judge was determining what was allowed into evidence. And I think it's a valid question. As I said before you called me a clown, I'd like to see any and all evidence admitted (especially by the defense) in any case, and that the jury be allowed to determine what is worth considering and what is bullshit.

  • Hash Brown||

    A "rambunctious young man"? A "ball of energy"? An "ebullient lad"?

  • sloopyinca||

  • MasterDarque||

    how about a normal kid? I fought plenty growing up sometimes I won sometimes I got my ass handed to me - shit happens

  • sloopyinca||

    Serious question (even if you're a socktroll): how many "normal" kids brag routinely about starting fights, get suspended from school for various disciplinary reasons and post pics of handguns and themselves smoking pot online? I'm asking because I really don't know the answer.

  • Paul.||

    You do understand that it Trayvon was quick to throw a punch, then it supports Zimmerman's defense theory, right? Right? Surely you understand that little nugget... right?

  • Loki||

    I doubt it.

  • Cancer||

    A boisterous chap! A gregarious youngster! A lively dude! A spirited fellow!

  • Loki||

  • Brandon||

    she would allow the defense to introduce evidence that Martin had trace amounts of THC in his blood when he died.

    How are "trace amounts of THC" at all relevant to anything?

  • ||

    It's not, though I'm not surprised they didn't use it. "Hey man, I was wicked baked" is not exactly what I picture someone who is supposed to be violent saying. Most people get mellow when stoned, not aggressive.

  • Enough About Palin||

    I would proffer that the overwhelming majority of shooters in Chicago were high on weed.

  • Drake||

    Might be relevant to a jury full of soccer Moms.

  • sloopyinca||

    Legal minds: how the fuck can a judge refuse to allow the texts into evidence? They show Martin to be a belligerent kid with a penchant for violent behavior, or at least words.
    They would cause a reasonable person to think Martin was capable of starting a fight.

    Is there a real reason to refuse it, other than to deny a defendant his right to offer any evidence he deems essential to his defense? If so, I sure can't see it.

  • Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)||

    "Is there a real reason to refuse it, other than to deny a defendant his right to offer any evidence he deems essential to his defense? If so, I sure can't see it."

    Leaving a great record for the defendant to appeal if convicted?

  • SugarFree||

    It's the same as excluding history of consensual sex on the part of the victim in a rape trial.

    They weren't allowed to suggest that Zimmerman profiled black people based on his 46 calls to police than never resulted in an arrest either, IIRC.

  • sloopyinca||

    But consensual sex is a perfectly legal activity. Starting fights is not. And if there is evidence in an alleged victim's own words that he regularly started fights (a crime in most jurisdictions), then that should be admissible, right?

  • SugarFree||

    You know how much bullshit I spin in a day that is "in my own words"? I think it was the difficulty in proving the fights occurred that got them excluded.

    I prefer a warts and all approach to trials, parsing the information that can be presented is biased as hell.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, in my opinion, they should allow it and let the prosecution have a go at tearing it apart text by text. If it was bluster, the prosecution could have used it to their advantage: "the victim was all bluster as proven by his texts. He never started a fight in his life and George Zimmerman overreacted to his idle words by starting a fight with him."

    Let them present any evidence they believe may help their case and give the other side a chance to fairly cross-examine. Which one is the truth is supposed to be determined in the jury room, not in the judges brain.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Which one is the truth is supposed to be determined in the jury room, not in the judges brain.

    I AM THE LAW!

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    the judges brain

    Assumes facts not in evidence.

  • Pro Libertate||

    There is some danger. SF's rape example is a good one. A slut can be raped. Now, I think the rape shield laws can go too far, as it's possible to make a nymphomaniac look like a nun. A non-sleazy nun, that is. Which can be relevant to a defense of consent. Still, the reason they have such laws is to prevent the jury from assuming a rape couldn't happen to a woman with some history. More prejudicial than probative.

    Remember, too, that the judge saw the evidence before making this ruling. So it's possible it's just entirely weak sauce for presenting to the jury.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    A non-sleazy nun

    Stop ruining it for me

  • Pro Libertate||

    Okay, for you, she's sleazy. Like Maria in The Sound of Music.

  • Enough About Palin||

    No, she's a guy dude on roller-skates.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Based on the Florida law cited on the pot issue, if there's any reasonable way it can be construed to the defendant's benefit, it is reversible error to exclude it.

    When the claim is self-defense, evidence that Martin liked to fight would seem to be a lot more probative than prejudicial and then the jury could decide whether Martin was a big-talker or a guy who might go off on someone who followed him.

    Liking to fuck is not the same as liking to get raped, so the rape example seems off. Just because someone likes to fight doesn't mean they can't get attacked, but it seems to me to be a lot more probative in a self-defense case than promiscuity has in a rape case.

  • Pro Libertate||

    It's just an illustration. That type of evidence (the propensity for violence) could be admissible. The judge just said it wasn't in this case. That may or may not have been warranted by the evidence presented to her.

  • tarran||

    There are really three defenses to rape:

    1) It didn't happen

    2) It was consensual

    3) It wasn't me.

    A lot of people think that a past history of promiscuity makes (2) more plausible. However, it one looks at it logically, that's nonsensical and so it's a good idea to exclude it as being prejudicial.

    Certainly a history or unproven rape allegations would be probative and should be included in any trial.

  • ant1sthenes||

    It's the same non-logic that makes Zimmerman's history of calls to the po-po look suspicious. If anything, it's the opposite -- if this person was prone to false rape allegations/starting fights with strangers, it probably would have happened before now, given the unusually high number of opportunities.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    It's more like excluding a history of false rape claims.

  • Pro Libertate||

    Well, the judge has to decide whether the evidence presented is more probative--meaning that it tends to prove something--than prejudicial. So while Martin's willingness to get in fights likely serves some value in judging whether he may have initiated force here, it may be different enough or not frequent enough to not have any value for showing any general propensity to use force.

    Besides, it's actually not all that relevant who started the fight. Zimmerman could've shoved Martin, for instance, and still could have a self-defense argument if Martin used enough force that Zimmerman felt reasonably in fear for his life.

  • Hash Brown||

    What The Suit said.

  • MasterDarque||

    playing dodge ball is considered violent in this pussy female biased society we live in - Zimmerman is no hero Martin was no saint but I doubt he deserved to die

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Do you know beyond a reasonable doubt that he didn't?

  • shamalam||

    I agree. Zimmerman did not deserve to die with his brain matter leaking out onto the rain covered sidewalk.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    All sorts of people die who probably don't deserve to.

    It's the day after Terror Tuesday. I'm sure Barry has just signed off on killing a few of them.

  • sloopyinca||

    But those people are like, anti-American and stuff. And they're planning our downfall from their mud huts in the Waziristan.

  • Omni||

    They were saying on CNN something about the Defense only being given the report on the text messages on the literal eve of the trial, and they were not happy. If true, wouldn't that alone be grounds for an appeal if convicted? Don't they have to turn that stuff over in a timely fashion?

  • Marc F Cheney||

    Am I supposed to have a horse in this race?

  • sloopyinca||

    Yes. Now tell me, what color are you?

  • Marc F Cheney||

    I know, I know. But more specifically, why is Reason spending any time on this? I get the impression from Sullum's posts and commenters', um, comments, that I'm supposed to side with Zimmerman, but I'm not sure why. Unless the argument is that he's innocent, but again, I'm not sure why I'm supposed to have a stake in him being innocent or not. Is there a libertarian principle at stake here?

  • SugarFree||

    Short answer: Page hits
    Long answer: There is an interesting discussion to be had about initiation of aggression and self-defense, but it's drowned out by KULTUR WAR confirmation bias-fest.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    You mean Reason is padding their bottom line with a little bit of sensationalism? Oh my stars and garters!

  • RBS||

    I wouldn't call it sensationalism, more like anti-sensationalism.

  • RBS||

    I actually like Sullum's coverage. I'm an attorney, everyone I know keeps asking me about the trial so I appreciate getting reasonable coverage of it.

  • SugarFree||

    Well, the short answer is always page hits. I'm not judging them or anything. Capitalism rulz.

  • Marc F Cheney||

    OK, but it's not even obvious to me that there is an interesting discussion to be had here about initiation of force and self-defense.

    I guess I'll just accept "page hits" as an answer.

  • Bobarian||

    Different Answer:

    There's a significant question here of government overreach and prosecutorial abuse. There is a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth on this site over cops beating civilians, but if I had my druthers, I'd take a good ol' smackdown from the powerlifting surf king over having a prosecutor burn me in effigy.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I think it's for the same reason I pay any attention to it--the state clearly has no case, and the whole thing is a show trial. That's disturbing. Whether Zimmerman is actually guilty or Martin was going to beat him to death is irrelevant (meaning that we can't know the truth, it appears, but the evidence isn't enough to convict).

    Also, it's big news and gets highlighted here for the same reason it does on CNN.

  • ||

    No, but a striking number of people do anyway. I would suggest they examine why.

  • Pro Libertate||

    I have one horse--justice. [Pompously walks out of the room.]

    I don't know what really happened. I have my suspicions, but I know one thing. The government lacks the evidence to convict. By a mile. So I'm disturbed that the guy is being tried, even if he's actually guilty of murder.

  • sloopyinca||

    I have one horse--justice. [Pompously walks out of the room.]

    Judge Sarah Jessica Parker presiding. District Attorney Tori Spelling, you may make your opening statement.

  • shamalam||

    he said "horse", not "whores".

  • DontShootMe||

    +1

  • Bobarian||

    John Elway for the defense.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Sheese, you're never gonna win if you keep betting on the dead horse.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Because using the criminal court system as a means of addressing social and political pressure is fascistic bullshit.

  • ||

    Oh, I agree. But so many people who are emotionally invested in this case--which is a lot--aren't focusing on that at all. They are completely and totally wound up in all the KULTUR WAR and RACE WAR aspects of it instead. Which tells us something, doesn't it?

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Absolutely.

  • ||

    I've been hesitant from the start to hitch my wagon to Zimmerman's due to the paucity of objective information available, but it is being used as a rallying cry to attack gun rights and stand your ground laws (regardless of it actually applying).

    Also mentioning that you don't think Zimmerman is blatantly guilty is one of the fastest ways to get people to flip right the fuck out. I just think it's comical that a "white hispanic" quarter-black guy is getting racially railroaded because, as far as I can tell, he's named George Zimmerman instead of Jorge Zapata or whatever. What's in a name, indeed.

  • Hash Brown||

    I'll have you know that, as a licensed attorney-at-law, I have a professional interest in this matter.

    0.1 - professional reading

  • Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)||

    Reason posts can be used for CLE?!

  • Drake||

    Only that self-defense is not Second Degree Murder.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Equus

  • BakedPenguin||

  • sloopyinca||

    Does anybody remember when someone, Heller maybe, posted their top 100 Pixies songs on here over the period of a week? I think it sent Epi over the edge.

  • ||

    The Pixies? Why would that send me over the edge? Now, if it was Morrissey...

  • sloopyinca||

    It sent someone over the edge. I just assumed it was you since you're a fucking sociopath.

  • ||

    It was heller himself. He was posting teh 100 greatest rockbands of all time, off of some website, and when The Pixies ranked really highly, some people started arguing with him about it, and he went ballistic.

  • SugarFree||

    There are certain, let's say, parties on this board who consider most music made after 1976 to be degenerate. They parties tend to be very vocal and persist when they are wrong or present a uninformed contrarian opinion.

  • Ted S.||

    There hasn't been anything original in music since the death of Josquin des Prez!

  • ||

    I prefer the term "psychopath". The "psycho" makes it sound cool.

  • sloopyinca||

    You gotta step up your game before you can be called a psycho.

  • ||

    Lighten up, Francis.

  • sloopyinca||

    Episiarch, I served with Francis Soyer. I knew Francis Soyer. Francis Soyer was a friend of mine. Episiarch, you're no Francis Soyer.

  • ||

    I remember that. It was totes gay.

  • ||

    THE FUCKING PIXIES ARRRRRRRRRRRGH SMASH

  • sloopyinca||

    ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

  • Lord Humungus||

    your mom?

  • Marc F Cheney||

    My mom already won the human race. By birthing me. SNAP.

  • Brett L||

    I'll bet she told you you rode the short bus because you were special, too.

  • Marc F Cheney||

    ALL TRUE.

  • Tim||

    I'm looking forward to the riots.

  • Scruffy Nerfherder||

    Me too. This is all foreplay to the real action. Let's get this thang rollin'.

  • sloopyinca||

    Seriously, I believe there will be riots when this goes down. I just wonder where they'll happen? Sanford is too small and they're gonna have everything rolling in the streets short of the fucking Marines when the verdict is read. So the question is: will they go to Orlando or Miami?*

    *Jax just doesn't fit the profile and there's no way they go the Tampa. It's gonna be Miami or Orlando. and Atlanta. And DC. And LA. And New York.

  • ||

    You people are nuts. There won't be any fucking riots. No one outside of news junkies and race hustlers and, well, the media gives a fuck about this case. Not really. It's so ginned up and along the usual KULTUR WAR lines that it's just one more meaningless battle between the Snakes and the Spiders...I mean TEAM RED and TEAM BLUE.

  • sloopyinca||

    I'll bet you $20 to the Reason Foundation that there are riots if the verdict comes back Not Guilty.

  • SugarFree||

    Define riots for the purposes of the bet.

  • tarran||

    Damn your nimble, pudgy fingers!

  • sloopyinca||

    Property damage in excess of $5m and at least 10 arrests as a direct result of the verdict in a single zip code.

  • SugarFree||

    Good parameters.

    What odds are there for "Protest march with erupts in gunfire" or the over/under on trampling deaths?

  • ||

    That's not a riot!

  • ||

    I put $10 on "Dipshit black kids get in a fight, it's posted to WorldStarHipHip and it's called a riot by race-baiting KULTUR WAR talking head dipshits"

  • sloopyinca||

    I put $10 on "Dipshit black kids get in a fight, it's posted to WorldStarHipHip and it's called a riot by race-baiting KULTUR WAR talking head dipshits"

    No dice. I'd be better off putting my life savings on Green.

  • sloopyinca||

    No trampling deaths. This is gonna be a shopping spree-riot, not a destroy property out of anger-riot.

  • SugarFree||

  • tarran||

    Be careful sloopy, you need to pin Episiarch down on what he defines as a riot.

    I heard he characterized the post Rodney Acquittal riots in LA as a surprise orgy, surprise mosh pit and a series of surprise involuntary giftings.

  • ||

    Fuck the Reason Foundation, I'll send you something from Amazon worth $20 if there are riots, and you'll grovel before me if there aren't.

    People think there will be riots because they think this case is more important than it is. It's just KULTUR WAR bullshit like the talking heads on the news channels. They get all agitated and nothing comes of it, because at the end of the day it's just entertainment and masturbation.

  • sloopyinca||

    Fine. Let's settle on something then.

    I want a Data action figure. And I don't mean from TNG. I want the Goonies one from Mezco.

  • ||

    You can have Mouth. Data is too good for you.

  • sloopyinca||

    Fuck you, Epi. You could have at least said Mikey.

  • ||

    *raises hand* Can I have the Data one then?

  • sloopyinca||

    After your motorcycle accident, we ought to send you Sloth. You can pass it off as your Mini Me.

  • ||

    ...I'll take that. I bet he's hung like a horse.

  • Tim||

    I say riots Epi because there are groups who are already fundraising of Travon's dead ass and riots will reinvigorate that. Ghouls like Jackson and Sharpton fatten on these corpses.

  • shamalam||

    Epi, set aside some money to pay your Kultur War gambling debts, cause you are gonna lose this bet.

  • Gray Ghost||

    Sloopy,

    One big diff between now and Rodney King-time, is that there's a lot more CHLs floating around and the rioters know it.

    Now I totally agree with you on parts of DC or Chicago going up in smoke. Hell, per Nicole, the cops can't even keep mobs from fucking with tourists on the Mag. Mile. What chance do they have in someplace like Lawndale?

  • Careless||

    "And New York."

    I'll happily bet against that

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda also asked Di Maio whether the scrapes on the back of Zimmerman's head could have been caused by a tree branch instead of contact with a concrete sidewalk, as Zimmerman claims.

    Were they somehow trying to imply Martin clubbed Zimmerman with a tree branch? In what way would that help their case?

  • ||

    "Zimmerman self-inflicted his wounds in an attempt to gain credibility" is an extremely popular opinion in certain circles right now; perhaps they were trying to work towards that?

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Even the prosecution is down to "Zimmerman shot Martin as Martin was getting off him."

  • ||

    Facts, shmacts. He's Obama's would-be lookalike son so SOMEBODY MUST PAY.

  • G-dub||

    I think the theory is that he scraped himself on the tree while preparing the noose for Martin's lynching.

  • Loki||

    +1K... KK

  • Slammer||

    Victor Davis Hanson: "If only George Zimmerman had Hispanicized his first name and adopted his maternal last name, the popular tribunal might have never indicted Jorge Meza."

  • Hash Brown||

    He's stealin' our material!

  • sarcasmic||

    If you're a pudgy pussy, don't go around fucking with punks.

    If you're a punk being fucked with by a pudgy pussy, don't go and kick his ass because he might be packing.

    hth

  • sloopyinca||

    and if you're either one and carry a badge...fuck it, do whatever you please because you're not getting prosecuted anyway!

    hth

  • Archduke Trousersenthusiast||

    Hey Guys, chill.

  • ||

    Because we haven't seen enough idiocy about this retarded case, let's look at tumblr. I particularly liked this one.

  • sloopyinca||

    Thanks, dickface. You do realize I can't unsee that stupidity, don't you?

  • ||

    "Share size" on the "Sweeties" was a nice touch, I thought.

  • sloopyinca||

    That one doesn't have shit on the comparison of Trayvon Martin to Jesus Christ.

  • sloopyinca||

  • ||

    That's the new thing, to get around the candy bar size rules. King Size Bars are now two smaller bars, and big bags of "pieces" type candies are all marked as sharing size (2 servings!).

  • Zeb||

    There are candy bar size rules?

  • sarcasmic||

    Ha ha. I know better than to click anything Warty posts.

  • shamalam||

    nice!

  • Almanian!||

    Your objection is OVER. RULED.

  • Enough About Palin||

    "Defense Portrays George Zimmerman As a Pudgy Pussy"

    So, a gunt then.

  • shamalam||

    DOJ "managed" the protests that pressured Florida to indict Zimmerman:

    http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013.....-protests/

    "“These documents detail the extraordinary intervention by the Justice Department in the pressure campaign leading to the prosecution of George Zimmerman,” said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. “My guess is that most Americans would rightly object to taxpayers paying government employees to help organize racially-charged demonstrations.”"

  • OldMexican||

    You just made my day worse.

  • shamalam||

    I will be here all week. Tip the waitress.

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