David Gregory Asks Glenn Greenwald, 'Why Shouldn't You ... Be Charged With a Crime?' Over NSA Revelations

Gregory vs. Greenwald on Meet the PressMSNBCPutting on an excellent performance as a shill for the United States government's security apparatus, MSNBC's David Gregory suggested in an interview with Glenn Greenwald on Meet the Press that FISA court oversight of the NSA's surveillance schemes should satisfy constitutional concerns about snooping. He emphasized the criminal nature of Edward Snowden's release of classified information about widespread telephone and Internet surveillance, and finally asked Greenwald why he should not be prosecuted for his part in publishing Snowden's revelations.

A brief excerpt from the exchange on Meet the Press:

David Gregory: "To the extent that you have aided and abetted Edward Snowden, even in his current movements, why shouldn't you, Mr. Greenwald, be charged with a crime?"

Glenn Greenwald: "I think it's pretty extraordinary that anybody who would call themselves a journalist would publicly muse about whether or not other journalists should be charged with felonies. The assumption in your question, David, is completely without evidence — the idea that I've aided and abetted him in any way. The scandal that arose in Washington before our stories began was about the fact that the Obama administration is trying to criminalize investigative journalism by going through the emails and phone records of AP reporters, accusing a Fox News journalist of the theory that you just embraced: being a co-conspirator in felonies for working with sources. If you want to embrace that theory, it means that every investigative journalist in the United States who works with their sources, who receives classified information is a criminal. And it's precisely those theories and precisely that climate that has become so menacing in the United States...

Update: As commenter LilDebbie noted, David Gregory has his own experience with breaking the law in the name of journalism.

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  • Fluffy||

    We cannot spare this man - he fights.

    Whatever else may be true about him.

  • LilDebbie||

    I am disappointed you neglected to mention Mr. David Gregory committed a criminal misdemeanor on his show.

    Although considering he wasn't prosecuted for that blatant violation of the law, it's an understandable omission.

  • Ted S.||

    Dammit! Somebody beat me to the punch!

    I would have asked the same question myself. (BTW: Greenwald isn't posting here, and I don't think Tucksilly was on Meet the Press.)

  • americanexile||

    It really is remarkable, his unfamiliarity with stones and glass houses.

  • Xenocles||

    +1

  • LilDebbie||

    No h/t? I am shocked and appalled.

  • Xenocles||

    Whaddaya mean? You're a commenter, are you not?

  • LilDebbie||

    I am now!

  • Xenocles||

    Well, looks like you're a squeaky enough wheel.

    Don't encourage us, Tuccille.

  • LilDebbie||

    Worse, I think that was my 6-7th comment to reason evar.

    IN YOUR FACE, COMMENTARIOT.

  • Irish||

    I still have no hat tip.

    My life has no meaning.

  • SugarFree||

    I'd loan you one of my many, many hat-tips, but it would cheapen it for you if you don't earn it for yourself. Bootstrap'd!

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    At least you have something to aspire towards. I got a hat tip early on, and now I have nothing left to live for.

  • Killazontherun||

    I've been hat tipped, and Lady Lucy called me her hero. I will dine on the envy of all of you this night!

  • cavalier973||

    I'm sure it's nothing special.

  • Ted S.||

    Perhaps JD edited in the hat-tip between Debbie's comment and yours? After all, we know they post-date stuff here all the time. :-)

  • Xenocles||

    When I got here it was "as several commenters have noted."

  • RBS||

    Someone should tell JD what happens when editors start listening to the commentariat.

  • Ted S.||

    Mike Riggs responded a couple of days ago to people complaining about the lack of alt-text with w wonderfully snarky alt-text. I only wish I could remember which of his posts it was.

  • Ted S.||

    JD trying to whitewash stuff and put it down a memory hole. :-)

  • Caleb Turberville||

    This whole thing has exposed a lot of people who are not uncomfortable with the NSA spaying on millions of Americans. Unfortunately, a lot of people = millions of Americans.

  • Caleb Turberville||

    ...or "spying on millions of Americans," whatever.

  • Heedless||

    Don't worry, they'll be supporting spaying next.

    Overpopulation!

  • Hash Brown||

    Three generations of radical individualists are enough.

  • anon||

    Did I miss something? Last I looked everyone's slurping that government cock as hard as they can.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Later, Gregory trots out his massive butthurt with a wounded, "But I was just posing a QUESTION, you know?"

    As I said in the other thread, Greenwald pretty much called that useless cunt Gregory a puppet of the administration to his face.

  • Xenocles||

    "Just asking questions," the same way South Park made fun of Glenn Beck for in that one episode.

  • Sevo||

    Jon Stewart bail-out.

  • Big Chief||

    It was really nice to see how cleanly Greenwald's shot landed. Gregory couldn't shake it for the entire show.

  • Killazontherun||

    I admire his skill. At best I would have managed a 'why, you insolent motherfucker!' Would have felt good but have been unsatisfying compared to Greenwald taking him down in terms of his professionalism.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Spaying and neutering are definitely part of the Master Plan.

  • Xenocles||

    Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

  • Hash Brown||

    Sorry, I did not see this when I made the same joke above.

  • Xenocles||

    It's all good.

  • Ted S.||

    P Brooks deserves it for refusing to use threaded comments. :-p

  • JW||

    Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

    Of politicians? If we only could have stopped at 3.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Three generations of imbeciles are enough.

    Which, sick as it is, is still the law of the land as Buck v Bell was never overturned.

  • Xenocles||

    It can't be overturned without a case, which would require a similar law to still be in effect somewhere for someone to contest.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Fair enough.

    But there were eugenics laws that allowed for forced sterilization and that were used AT LEAST through the 70s. That in the 50+ years between Buck v Bell and the last (that I know of) forced sterilization laws not one of the SCOTUS courts saw fit to kick that fucking ruling to the curb is disgusting.

  • Xenocles||

    Were there any test cases? I don't know. Again, the court can't just step in and nullify laws. A party with standing has to bring the matter to them through the existing process.

    Now if I ruled the world, anyone would have standing to challenge the constitutionality of a law, since the existence of an unconstitutional law is inherently injurious to all citizens. However, that is not the doctrine that the courts follow.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Were there any test cases?

    According the afore-linked wiki page, there was a case that went as far as the NC Supreme Court, so there was at least 1 test case.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Sterilization laws were on the books in NC until 200andfucking3.

    In 2003, the N.C. General Assembly formally repealed the last involuntary sterilization law, replacing it with one that authorized sterilization only in the case of medical necessity. The law explicitly ruled out sterilization for reasons of 'hygiene or convenience'.

    Up until the late 70s, NC was STILL defending eugenics and applying forced sterilization on its citizens.

    There were over 75 years in between Buck v Bell and the last of the eugenics laws being repealed. That it was never repealed by SCOTUS is fucking shameful.

  • ||

    Of course all the water-carrying useless mouthpiece "journalists" are going to give Greenwald shit. He showed them up by being what they all fancy themselves to be, but of course are not by a mile. He should rip each and every one of them a new one.

  • Big Chief||

    ^^This!!

  • Fluffy||

    This fucker Gregory has John McCain on his show every other week.

    Has he ever asked McCain, "Why shouldn't you be charged with a crime over the Keating Five?" or "Why shouldn't you be charged with a crime for interfering in the investigation of your wife's illegal drug use?"

    Ever?

  • The Late P Brooks||

    If you asked the people currently baying for Snowden to "face the consequences like a man' whether or not any government official (like one who lied his ass off to a Congressional committee, for instance) should be held accountable, I suspect you'd hear a different story.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    JOHN MCCAIN IS A HERO AND A PATRIOT, YOU NUTJOB!

  • Brett L||

    If only he had given his life for his country.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    He defended the constitution before he betrayed it.

  • Heedless||

    The man possesses a tremendous amount of personal courage. Unfortunatley, it is not accompanied by good judgment or self-restraint.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    You know who else was personally courage in the pursuit of evil?

  • ||

    Captain America?

  • Rrabbit||

    Attila the Hun?

  • KPres||

    Why does he have "personal courage"? Because he was a victim?

  • ||

    Eh, I'll give him credit for enduring years of torture and not taking the opportunity to be released early because his dad was an admiral.

  • Xenocles||

    He behaved honorably as a POW as far as I can tell. That is praiseworthy, however bad he may be in other areas. (I'm walking a fine line here with what I'm allowed to say.)

  • Dweebston||

    Sculpting a political career from his military service in an effort to fork civil liberties nixes any honor he might have gleaned from his POW days. The VC should have kept him.

  • Xenocles||

    McCain was held in North Vietnam. The VC and the NVA were not the same thing. /pedant

  • Tybus||

    He should have never had the chance to be a pow. If any of us had pulled his bullshit antics in regards to bending airplane metal and personal behavior, we would have been in the brig.

  • Tejicano||

    This.

    He was referred to by some as an NVA ace because he had destroyed 5 US aircraft in his career.

  • croaker||

    John McCain is a Manchurian Candidate.

  • Jon Lester||

    I don't think I'm going back to Taegan Goddard's Political Wire after today, as one of his moderators in comments is clearly a statist fool, and a condescending one, at that.

  • ||

    Snowden may be on his way to Venezuela

    http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly.....oflot-125/

    More "if he really cared about freedom, he'd go to prison in the US!" in 3...2...1...

    On a lighter note, quickmeme has been banned from reddit

  • Sevo||

    AP says Wikileaks says Ecuador:
    "WikiLeaks: Snowden going to Ecuador to seek asylum"
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/wor.....617034.php

  • Ted S.||

    We're supposed to give a shit about those stupid captioned memes?

  • Xenocles||

    We're supposed to give a shit about Reddit?

  • RBS||

    What's a "Reddit"?

  • ||

    The captioned images themselves are actually called image macros. They are manifestations of memes.

  • CatoTheElder||

    I really don't understand why the White House needs Jay Carney and his staff since the mainstream media slavishly serves as its Ministry of Truth.

  • RBS||

    That salary isn't going to draw itself.

  • KPres||

    You sure about that?

  • VG Zaytsev||

    It's more efficient to publicly disseminate the daily talking points than send them out individually.

  • ||

    "...slavishly serves as its Ministry of Truth."

    Ok, you guys have me referring to the Supreme court as the nazgul, and now and forever I will refer to the press as the ministry of truth.

  • Sevo||

    Senator realizes Putin just told Obozo to go fuck himself, isn't pleased:
    "[Schumer] blasted Russian President Vladimir Putin Sunday, saying he stuck "a finger in the eye of the United States" by allowing NSA leaker Edward Snowden to land in Moscow."
    http://www.sfgate.com/technolo.....617288.php
    With all due respect, Senator, go sit on something and spin.

  • RBS||

    I get a great deal of pleasure watching people who think they are powerful, and expect everyone to do as they say, encounter other people who also think they are powerful, and don't care what the other asshole thinks.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Shoomy also kept saying that Russian wasn't acting like an ally of ours.

    Which was a revealing gaffe in a number of ways.

  • Sevo||

    "Which was a revealing gaffe in a number of ways"

    Good point; missed it.

  • crashland||

    Didn't Russia join NATO?

    Ah, no, that was just a couple of the former socialist republics trying to stay the hell away from Russia.

    And soon we'll be in a nice little proxy war against them too...

    So, yeah, Chucky, they are great allies.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Maybe he's nostalgic for the days when the commies were the democrat's allies.

  • AlmightyJB||

    They set themselves up for this shit by being douchnozzles. If the administration behaved in a reasonable and justifiable manner it would not have to worry about it's nemesis' making political hay at their expense.

  • ||

    Or about leakers revealing the administration's criminal activity.

  • ||

    Perhaps that something could be a sharp, barbed stick. One about three feet long and a couple inches in diameter.

  • cavalier973||

    So...Warty?

  • croaker||

    With absolutely no respect at all, Schumer needs to be found dead, tied to the bed in a swanky hotel room, with lots of gay sex toys in evidence and the semen of six different men oozing from his mouth and anus.

    (Bonus points if you can name the book)

  • Virginian||

    Unintended Consequences.

    "Both ends? What a player!"

  • Tejicano||

    Chucky is the joke that just keeps getting funnier!

    First, he trots out his zero foreign policy awareness by referring to Russia as an ally. Then he shows how totally out of his league he is by assuming to “know” Putin’s motivations (a former KGB LtCol & Russian Pol – a devious individual seemingly created to be a Bond-movie villain).

    Turn it into a stand-up and take it on the road Chucky!

  • Don Mynack||

    I'm pretty sure Putin in an agent of SPECTRE. He and Goldfinger and Pussy Galore.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Anyone else remember when it was revealed that Ted Kennedy sent a letter to the Soviets during the Reagan administration offering to help the Soviets in their foreign policy for his own political gain? Did anything come of that?

    Hell no. The government protects its own, even if its own is a woman-murdering, drunk, quisling lecher. He went to the right schools, had the right last name, and worked the right job. Snowden was just some dropout jerk -- so what if he made available information about a secret, undemocratic government program? He's the one we should make sure never sees his family again.

  • Hash Brown||

    Hmmm. Must investigate.

  • Hash Brown||

    Holy moly. How did I miss this at the time?

    Picking his way through the Soviet archives that Boris Yeltsin had just thrown open, in 1991 Tim Sebastian, a reporter for the London Times, came across an arresting memorandum. Composed in 1983 by Victor Chebrikov, the top man at the KGB, the memorandum was addressed to Yuri Andropov, the top man in the entire USSR. The subject: Sen. Edward Kennedy.

    “On 9-10 May of this year,” the May 14 memorandum explained, “Sen. Edward Kennedy’s close friend and trusted confidant [John] Tunney was in Moscow.” (Tunney was Kennedy’s law school roommate and a former Democratic senator from California.) “The senator charged Tunney to convey the following message, through confidential contacts, to the General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, Y. Andropov.”

    Kennedy’s message was simple. He proposed an unabashed quid pro quo. Kennedy would lend Andropov a hand in dealing with President Reagan. In return, the Soviet leader would lend the Democratic Party a hand in challenging Reagan in the 1984 presidential election.

    from an Aug. 28, '09, Forbes story

  • Fatty Bolger||

    But he was a great man! The Lion of the Senate! He paved the path to our coming healthcare utopia! (Mary Jo Kopechne was unavailable for comment.)

    Pretty dumb deal, considering that nothing short of keeling over in office could have stopped Reagan from winning re-election. Eh, probably not even that.

  • Jon Lester||

    I think the Soviets deserved some credit for having some discretion with that one.

  • Sevo||

    "Putin is following in their wonderful footsteps."
    Putin's at least as big an asshole as Obozo; not much to choose between them.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It's frightening how quickly journalists like Gregory go from shilling for Obama to facilitating...

    I remember when lefty journalists all used to crow about the "chilling effect".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect_(law)

    Gregory is basically a thug.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Well, obviously, if it makes Obama look bad, then it can't be true.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Antiwar Libertarian,

    I mean why haven't they assassinated him yet?


    He needs to be in the middle of a big wedding party before the order to bomb his ass out can be given. Don't you understand anything about rules of engagement?

  • Xenocles||

    It's gospel among the tin-foilers that the CIA is all-powerful, but the fact is that their reach is quite limited. I could offer as evidence any of the myriad enemies we have who still live, but the conspiracy theorist would just offer the counter-claim that they're just other false-flag agents who are alive because they belong to the conspiracy.

    Some of what you wrote seems tongue-in-cheek, so don't necessarily take this personally.

  • Xenocles||

    Thanks for the demonstration.

  • Hash Brown||

    They're letting him twist in the breeze for a while because they like the split between GWOT types and small-government types among Il Duce's opposition.

  • Rebekah||

    what did Snowden have to gain by doing this?

    A clean conscience? The pleasure of discrediting the powers that be? A bit of a god complex?

    Personally I don't care if his motivation was elaborate suicide-by-state, it's what he did that matters, not who he is or why he did it.

    And the SOP for diverting attention away from political scandals is to go kill some people with funny-sounding last names for their own good. (See: Yugoslavia, and now Syria)

  • Rebekah||

    Jesus Christ I can't believe I actually responded seriously to this guy. Shame. Shame is what I feel.

  • Irish||

    It's okay. We forgive you. This board has a long and proud history of responding to obvious trolls.

  • Xenocles||

    Someone has to do it. I like to think we have a rotating troll-response duty.

  • Ken Shultz||

    It is kinda funny, though, that despite all the shit the Obama Administration has done over just the last year--from Benghazi to IRSgate to massive surveillance...stuff they've done in the open that we actually know about!

    Well, that isn't enough for some people. It's not enough to criticize Obama for what he's done--conspiracy people gotta make more shit up to criticize him for, too! Because having screwed up the healthcare system; using taxpayer money to nationalize GM; using the IRS to intimidate his political opponents; blaming a YouTube video for his own incompetent behavior in Benghazi, and spying on every American with a cellphone or an email address...

    That just isn't enough.

    If it doesn't involve the CIA misdirecting us, somehow, then I guess it isn't a legitimate criticism.

    Behind every conspiracy theory person I've ever read looms the idea they really want to get across, which is that none of us really knows what is happening. That we can't really trust what we think we know.

    And that's their basic and only point. They don't want you to trust yourself. It's a lot like step one in being initiated into a cult.

  • GILMORE||

    "Why else would he give up his girlfriend"

    as we all learned in the marines=

    Pussy
    Unit
    Corps
    God
    Country

  • ||

    You cant believe that.

    Next: I will tell you what you like.

  • GILMORE||

    but don't you dare say I can't believe want I to believe.

    Them want I
    Them want I
    Be com'a them funeral
    Them claim say
    Them claim say
    Them are the general

    What a big disgrace
    The way you rob up the place
    Rob everything you can find
    Yes you did
    And you'll even rob from the blind

    Now we know the truth
    Yes we do
    Find you
    Wearing the boot
    Of taking people's business on your head,yeah
    So might as well you be dead

    I guess that's what you meant

  • mr lizard||

    Look just because your future reptilian overlords are coming from space does not make us space lizards.

  • Jon Lester||

    I wondered if the Paula Deen thing was manufactured to distract us from the Snowden story.

  • GILMORE||

    He got too close to revealing the CHEMTRAILS recipie

  • ΘJΘʃ de águila||

    Bullshit. They crashed the bond market as the distraction.

  • Xenocles||

    She was a big Obama donor, apparently.

  • An0nB0t||

    Nonsense. I was just reading today that Keynes loved to throw around the word nigger in his private discourse to an extent that surprised even the early 20th-century British. And LBJ, God love him, LBJ used that unchanging, objective talisman of a word at least twice prior to his untimely passing.

    I'm certain that the cultural inquisitionistas will move onto the legacies of these two giants of the social demos right after they're done with this vulgar old lady whose culinary misadventures are generally limited to placing pats of butter atop canned vegetables but who once claimed that Michelle Obama stuffed her face when the cameras weren't rolling.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Snowden is the CIA's top agent in the Middle East. Llew Rockwell and Alex Jones were coming too close to discovering the truth, so the government had to manufacture this identity for him to throw them off the scent.

    Think about it.

  • Xeynon||

    It's too bad for Gregory that the USSR isn't still in business. His style of hard-hitting journalism would've fit right in at Pravda.

  • Ted S.||

    His complete lack of seriousness would fit in well with today's Pravda.

  • Anvil||

    Why wasn't David Gregory arrested for publicly showing a gun clip on TV where he was being broadcast from DC, where they are illegal?

  • Xenocles||

    From the linked article:

    "Influencing our judgment in this case, among other things, is our recognition that the intent of the temporary possession and short display of the magazine was to promote the First Amendment purpose of informing an ongoing public debate about firearms policy in the United States, especially while this subject was foremost in the minds of the public"

    As opposed to all the people who get picked up for having these things in their trunk while they drop someone off in the District, who are presumably promoting the Second Amendment purpose of exercising their RKBA.

  • Xenocles||

    Basically the AG decided that in this case mens rea was necessary to complete the offense.

  • Tejicano||

    It was reported that Gregory, through an assistant, had already requested (through some police office - local? state?) and been denied dispensation to bring the rifle magazine into DC.

    So I have to doubt (or hope it isn't true) the AG did this - how can one not be aware of one's guilt for a specific action which the police told you would be illegal?

  • Xenocles||

    You're right; I mistook mens rea for intent to cause actual harm, not intent to break the law.

  • ||

    "...our recognition that the intent of the temporary possession and short display of the magazine was to promote the First Amendment purpose of ....a shameless assault on the second amendment."

    All better now.

  • ||

    Because laws are for little people. Besides, he was doing a public service by reporting on the dangers of high capacity magazines, which nobody who isn't a child murderer really needs.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Why shouldn't he be charged with a crime? Because it's not a crime to tell the American people about billions of counts of illegal wiretapping perpetrated against them by their own goddamned government.

    -jcr

  • Killazontherun||

    Or, he could have come back with, 'when you interview Mr. Obama next do you plan to ask him why shouldn't he be impeached just as you have asked me why should I not be charged? Or, has this city grown so authoritarian it is the norm to criminalize the practice of investigative journalism, but extreme to suggest a president be punished for overstepping the reach of his power?'

  • NoVAHockey||

    I met Sam Donaldson once at a DC cocktail party about a year after I graduated from journalism school. When I asked him how he could socialize with people he covered he looked at my like I was the biggest fool in the world. I suppose he was right. I bailed on journalism and got into lobbying. It's more honest.

  • An0nB0t||

    My sole concern is that when the revolution comes, we won't have enough strong rope with which to hang the moral criminals.

    Maybe some sturdy fishing line will suffice.

  • Tony||

    A revolution is not guaranteed to succeed. And history is written by the victors.

  • Graphite||

    More scales falling from progressive eyes over the Snowden issue: Pelosi gets booed at Netroots Nation: http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/23-0

    Now that Schumer and Mike Rogers have issued empty threats of "serious consequences" for Putin if he lets Snowden through Moscow, I figure his passage to Ecuador is all but assured. I have been *loving* the news today!

  • Sevo||

    "I have been *loving* the news today!"
    Me too.
    It's odds on that more US citizens fear their government today than did last week at this time.
    We need many more; that government is to be feared.

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