Psychedelic Science: Still Hassled by the Man

Wired reports from the meeting last weekend of various scientists and researchers interested in the possibilities of illegal psychedelic drugs.

Truckers Getting LSD for the RoadPhoto credit: The Rocketeer / Foter.com / CC BY-NC-ND

After a predictable swipe at Timothy Leary (who to my mind deserves praise for taking, mostly, the non-Mandarin road toward the public discussion of these drugs' possibilities and not keeping them the secret plaything of an elite, but who the serious science folk see as ruining it for the rest of them by taking things too far too fast and too public in the 60s years leading up to the 1966 national banning of LSD), the story notes that psychedelic research remains a fringe thing, but not one that's going away.

Excerpts:

From its inception in 2010, the Psychedelic Science meeting has brought together an interesting mix of people. A record 1,800 of them attended this year.  Brad Burge, the communication director for MAPS [Multidiscipinary Association for Psychedelic Studies]....acknowledges there’s a tricky balancing act involved in hosting a forum for scientists who want their work to be taken seriously without excluding those who use psychedelic drugs recreationally. Even so, “we’re trying to get around the idea that there has to be a separation,” he said.

After all, this latter group helps fund much of the research through their donations to MAPS and other private organizations like the Heffter Research Institute and Beckley Foundation. Government funders like the National Institutes of Health are still skittish about psychedelic research.

The article discusses various recent attempts to link ayahuasca and mushroom use to specific brain activities as measured by fMRIs and the like and notes the seem to dampen something brain scientists call the "default mode network" in ways that may make them relevant to curbing depression. It also notes a survey of "1,600 recreational psilocybin [users that] found that 40 percent ranked the experience in their top five most personally meaningful."

As one scientist quoted in the story says, “The illegality of these drugs has profoundly distorted research and continues to do so....It’s one of the greatest scandals in modern research.”

I review a bio of Leary; Reason interviews him in the swingin' 70s.

A list of recent clinical trials of psychedelics and related illegal drugs:

♦ Ayahuasca Depression: Brazil (upcoming)

  • Psilocybin Depression: UK (pending),Smoking cessation: US (ongoing)
  • MDMA PTSD: Switzerland (completed), Spain (completed), Israel (ongoing), US (ongoing), Canada (upcoming)
  • LSD End of life anxiety: Switzerland (completed)
  • Ibogaine Addiction: Mexico, New Zealand (ongoing)
  • Source: MAPS/Psychedelic Science conference

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  • Politics Debunked||

    re: "The illegality of these drugs has profoundly distorted research"

    Yup, since most scientists prefer to work on legal things they can talk about. It seems likely if drugs were legalized there would be scientists inventing safer drugs, including drugs with antidote "sober up pills" that would quickly remove any impairment. This would allow people to safely drive, work, care for children, etc. They might lead the user to breath out a chemical trace which a sensor in a car could pick up to suggest they "take a sober up" pill before driving.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Hey a majority of Americans told me to tell you that you're a racist asshole and nobody likes you. I guess that makes it a mandate or something?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Notice how the mouthing-breathing, gravy-sweating racist yokel leaves out question No. 48?

    Do you favor or oppose allowing illegal immigrants to remain in the country and eventually
    qualify for U.S. citizenship, as long as they meet certain requirements like paying back taxes,
    learning English, and passing a background check?

    78% Favor, 21% Oppose, 1% Don't know.

    What a fucking dishonest piece of shit.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I fucking teach English as a Second Language, at a university, and I teach future ESL teachers.

    You're such a moron. I hope you die from bone cancer.

  • ||

    That's terrible HM, bone cancer is a drawn out affair, which does not impair one's ability to type.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    It's too bad stupidity isn't painful.

  • ||

    It's too bad stupidity isn't painful.

    It would be if they'd let me have my blackjack back.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'm hoping the tumors will start in his hands...

  • C. Anacreon||

    Hey, I actually have bone cancer. While you are wishing it on people, can you take mine away as well? You can give it to American, I won't mind.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I wish I could, Anacreon. I wish I could.

    All of my best friend's dads have died from brain tumors. The last one was only a few weeks ago. The good suffer and stupid evil fucks like American keep going on.

    FUCK! Just fuck!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *friends'

    Not one friend with a bunch of dads.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *friends'

    Not one friend with a bunch of dads.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Actually, it's all OK right now. I'm on a new chemo with very little side effects that's apparently doing the job. I'm still able to work full-time and even still have all my hair. Plus, my new research just got me invited to DC to present directly to HHS next month, and *might* just lead to some cool changes on a national level. Life is good. (knocks on wood)

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Where did I say "have to"? Though I think they should, as not only would it help them succeed in society, but it puts more money in my pocket.

  • Dweebston||

    What's this fascination with forcing English on peoples who self-segregate and are able to perpetuate isolated communities? Are you worried their presence in their quaint microcosms will taint our wholesome cultural touchstones with their foreigness?

    I favor backward disintegration for the same reason I favor backward fuckwit racists like yourself: so long as you're paying the iron price in rents foregone and talent rejected due to ethnic or social favoritism, more power to you.

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    It came from 'Mercun. No need to call bullshit, it's assumed.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    A STUDY?!?

    A fucking FOX News telephone poll is not a study. Do you realize how stupid you sound to those of us who have actually published research?

  • Sevo||

    American| 4.26.13 @ 9:47PM |#
    "Send me a link to your published research, HM. I'd love to know how much of your identity is bs"

    Ah, yes. When called on bullshit, why move the goal posts!
    Fuck off, idiot.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    You think I'm going to fall for that, Americlown?

  • Sevo||

    American| 4.26.13 @ 9:26PM |#
    "I just gave a link to a study that supports my point"

    You IDIOT! A poll has nothing to do with a "study".

  • Sevo||

    American| 4.26.13 @ 9:51PM |#
    "A study is in most cases a poll conducted by a professor."

    Murcan posted that. I just copied it. Murcan actually posted that.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    No, it isn't.

    A study begins by identifying a problem, then previous literature on the topic is reviewed. After that, A specific research question or hypothesis is posited. Then data is collected by various methodologies, of which, a well-constructed survey free of nonresponse bias and response bias, is one. Then the data is analyzed and interpreted. Finally, the research is reported and the results are viewed in what insight is gained into the research question.

    You fail Research Methodology 101

  • Sevo||

    Heroic Mulatto| 4.26.13 @ 10:00PM |#
    "No, it isn't.
    A study begins by identifying a problem,..."

    HM, I doubt this is going to "educate" Murcan. It's true, but...

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *sigh*

    What can I say? You can take the teacher out of the classroom, but not the classroom out of the teacher.

    Wait, what?

  • Sevo||

    Heroic Mulatto| 4.26.13 @ 10:11PM |#
    "What can I say? You can take the teacher out of the classroom, but not the classroom out of the teacher."

    How 'bout:
    You can lead an idiot to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'm stealing that, printing it, and placing it above my office door.

  • Sevo||

    Heroic Mulatto| 4.26.13 @ 10:28PM |#
    "I'm stealing that, printing it, and placing it above my office door."

    Gimme a minute.....

    "You can lead a fool to knowledge, but you can't make him think"
    Flows better; credit Sevo.

  • Calidissident||

    Your own link shows that most Americans disagree you on amnesty. And agreeing with you on reducing immigration does not equate to agreeing with your views on race

  • ||

    Ad populum much?

    Taking your cues from Obama now American?

  • A Serious Man||

    Isn't it great how we do not let democracy decide everything?

  • ||

    A majority of Americans are idiots.

  • Sevo||

    heller| 4.26.13 @ 9:03PM |#
    "A majority of Americans are idiots."

    Well, one certainly is.

  • Sevo||

    American| 4.26.13 @ 8:56PM |#
    "A majority of Americans think legal immigration should be reduced."

    Murcan, you're an ignoramus. If you said look in the east for the sunrise, I'd look west.
    Did I mention you're an ignoramus?

  • Anonymous Coward||

  • ||

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I can't ratchet up on that without digging into the darkest parts of the interwebs.

  • ||

    You don't want to link to the "nastiest, bare-backinest, hard-dickinest, ball-slappiest interracial porno" you can find?

  • Anonymous Coward||

    Awwwww, what the hell...challenge accepted, dammit.

  • ||

    Ha, I saw that but didn't want to be offensive.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I'm pretty sure NSFW is okay, but outright porn isn't.

    Another one for American/Conrad's spank bank.(NSFW, BYKWIATHSIGGTD)

  • ||

    Another one for American/Conrad's spank bank.(NSFW, BYKWIATHSIGGTD)

    I agree 100%

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Nazdrakke||

    I'm not clicking any of those links. I'm scared, I'll admit it.

  • Anonymous Coward||

  • db||

    "From the nice Korean lady?"

  • A Serious Man||

    Guess who?

    I’d like to offer a revised theory of trolling: Mean-spirited people who run around saying bigoted things in an obvious bid for attention aren't just doing it for the lulz. They really mean those horrible things. A lot of trolls are aggrieved white men who, angry that their unearned privileges are under attack, are going to lash out at the people they see taking them away. They may not be able to restore themselves to the former glory of the Mad Men era, but making people feel bad will serve as their revenge.

  • Hugh Akston||

    God dammit people, quit linking to fucking retarded Slate stories.

  • A Serious Man||

    It doesn't make me mad, I actually find it amusing. Even the Slate commentators think she is a joke and mock her. Marcotte bashing is the one time when the majority liberal commentators get along with the few conservative and libertarians that seep in there.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Holy shit! Have we uncovered the true identity of American?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    The person she's writing about, not the author of the article.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I am simply a man in touch with my nature as a man

    You might be male, but you're no man; much less a gentleman.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    So then you admit you're an idiot. now I don't feel so bad ignoring you.

  • ||

    It is funny to me how easily dullards conflate race with culture.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    I'm pretty sure I do it for fun. The internet is filled with thin-skinned bitches, ripe for the picking.

  • An0nB0t||

  • np||

    Ayahuasca trips at family-run place next to the beach in Brazil: http://thomasriddle.net/brazil/index.html

    The next afternoon we went back down to the beach to drink auyahuasca again. This time the auyahuasca was a thick black soup, “honey.” After we drank it Andre said to me in English, “You are going to fly.”

    I sat in the meditation posture. A few minutes later the auyahuasca forced me to lie down. This was going to be strong. I closed my eyes and waited.

    Not long after that an amphibious airplane landed in the turquoise waters just off the beach. The pilot got out and asked me if I wanted to go for a ride. “No,” I told him, “Can't you see? I’m drinking auyahuasca, I can’t go anywhere.”

    “We just want your spiritual body, you can leave your physical body here,” he said.

    “Sure, I could do that.”

    With that I got up and looked back to see my physical body lying on the beach.
  • mike c.||

    I've liked shrooms in the past. The LSD I've tried wasn't very good.

  • ||

    That's what my mother says. :(

    Good teenage rebellion is virtually impossible with parents who were hippies before finding Reagan and Jesus in the '80s.

  • Sevo||

    jesse.in.mb| 4.26.13 @ 9:26PM |#
    "Good teenage rebellion is virtually impossible with parents who were hippies before finding Reagan and Jesus in the '80s."

    I dunno. You could call 'em on the jesus bullshit.

  • ||

    Were my goal just to sow strife, I succeeded admirably by coming out of the closet, but I had friends who were sticking it to their straight-laced parents by doing shrooms or LSD, and I had my dad telling me how niacin + exercise can induce LSD flashbacks, and my mother telling me that Trainspotting did an amazing job of capturing what it was like to be on drugs.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    My folks are very straight laced, churchgoing, Cleaver types. I thought my parents were going to flip their shit when they busted me doing drugs. My mom just rolled her eyes and my dad laughed and started telling me all about the 60s and 70s and all the drugs they used to do. If I weren't high, I probably woulda had a mental break.

  • Robert||

    So it was like, "Welcome to the club. What took you so long?" Or like, "Congratulations on passing your 1st test. We weren't allowed to help you, that would've killed it."?

  • Sevo||

    jesse.in.mb| 4.26.13 @ 10:00PM |#
    "Were my goal just to sow strife, I succeeded admirably by coming out of the closet,..."

    You certainly don't owe me an answer, but I'm curious if they finally figured out that you still are a human being.
    Anyhow, I'm old enough that smoking tobacco did the job as a yute. By the time acid was available, it wasn't 'rebellion', just 'what the hell goes on here?'
    What goes on is that you need 24 hours when you don't have to apologize for your actions.

  • ||

    I'm curious if they finally figured out that you still are a human being.

    Actually, considering how horrified my parents were they handled it better than many kids can expect when coming out to their parents. I was actually outed to them (yay!), so it wasn't really my decision. There were some weird events like my parents sending my sister storming into my room when a college friend who was going to stay on campus for Thanksgiving came home with me instead, and they sent my sister storming into my bedroom to "check to make sure I had gotten home safely," but they mostly make for funny stories in hindsight rather than scarring experiences.

    Eventually my youngest two siblings turned out to be much bigger fuckups and I continued to be reliable. It's really hard to get too worked up about a "wayward" son who is willing to drive his even more wayward brother all over LA County to get his juvenile record expunged, or drive his sister down to SD to deal with her drug court appointments, and to get her muling charges dropped.

  • Sevo||

    "It's really hard to get too worked up about a "wayward" son who is willing to drive his even more wayward brother all over LA County to get his juvenile record expunged, or drive his sister down to SD to deal with her drug court appointments, and to get her muling charges dropped."

    'Damn screwed-up kid is the best of the lot'?
    I hope you don't mind my finding that amusing. My folks finally figured out that if smoking were my worst activity, well, it was 'way better than at least one other brother.

  • ||

    No, I joke about it with my parents. The pained face they make when they say "What!? you were never the 'black sheep'" is delicious. Especially since I've talked with aunts, uncles and cousins about exactly what they were saying behind my back.

  • BakedPenguin||

    "Good teenage rebellion is virtually impossible with parents who were hippies before finding Reagan and Jesus in the '80s."

    Jesus, I hope you've seen Repo Man.

  • Hollywood||

    Former CNN reporter says network paid by US government to manipulate news

    http://www.disclose.tv/news/Ex.....Iran/92447

    This surprises me since I always thought they'd be eager to do it for free.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    It's still a business and they want their payola.

  • SweatingGin||

    I'm shocked

    Site seems a little.... tinfoilhattish. But I wouldn't discount it.

  • ||

    Unfortunately, with the current administration, having a tin foil hat handy might not be a bad idea.

  • Hollywood||

    I agree SG but I'm Epi-level functioning drunk so I didn't give it the requisite level of scrutiny it deserved for this esteemed commentariat.

  • BakedPenguin||

    The story has been around a while. Snopes say they're still researching it.

  • ||

    I just had to drive to town and back and heard Levin complaining about...uh....David Frum? Or some twit just like him anyway.

    Frum, or whoever it was, was complaining that the republican party should get rid of Levin, Limbaugh, and uh....Beck. From the way he said it, it hit me that he thinks the GOP and conservative pundits have some kind of relationship where the pundits work for, and are told what to do, by the GOP.

    Some of the trolls here have made the same accusation in the same way.

    I think they are projecting. That is the way they work and they think the right/conservative/libertarian does also. They really really just dont get it.

  • SweatingGin||

    Megan McCardle's column a few days ago about why the gun ban failed included an extended quote from a Frum book. It's the only thing I've ever read or heard of his that doesn't make me think he's an idiot. It's largely a value-neutral history of what the Dem party did in the house/senate after the '60s.

    In general, I'd agree with the projecting, though. Limbaugh didn't help things with the "I won't carry water for the GOP anymore" comment, though (probably early '09, I forget).

  • ||

    I couldnt get past Dowd's 'How to polish a turd' bit.

  • ||

    You'll like this summary of her piece then:

    This is a politician getting down to what the New York Times editorial page seems to think is a particularly fetching set of brass knuckles: reciting liberal talking points one after another in rapid fire sequence. That’s hardball, that’s brass tacks at least in the mind of Maureen Dowd, a woman who on the evidence of this column could and would teach her own grandmother to suck eggs.
  • Irish||

    Is that from the American Interest article about Dowd's piece? I read that and couldn't stop laughing.

    The New York Times editorial page is seriously a fucking cartoon.

    Did anyone read this Thomas Friedman article where he argues that we could stop terrorism by implementing a carbon tax?

  • ||

    Yeah, it's from Russell Walter Mead's article about her piece, McArdle quotes him after her own summary as an "even harsher reaction". Here's a link to his article on the subject.

    I hadn't seen Friedman's article, I don't usually read his stuff. See, if we can just make America great again with sustainable growth, we'll be able to resist the terrorists. And a carbon tax is crucial for that(*snicker*). He also thinks a carbon tax is a "radically new idea". He talks about sustainable growth via government spending, which is ironic considering our current state of government spending IS unsustainable, the exact opposite of what Friedman purports to want.

    Here's a gem:

    The country would have a vehicle to address climate change, to drive clean-tech innovation (and to take money away from people who fund jihadist hate sites on the Internet).

    How the hell is that last part supposed to work?

  • ||

    Take. The money. Away.

  • ||

    By a carbon tax? From would-be terrorists specifically? How would it do that better than any other tax?

  • Irish||

    I think the argument is that you'll stop them from having money because you'll transition to 'greener' energy, or at the very least use less oil, and the oil kleptocracies in the middle east will have less money to spend on terrorist functions.

    But you could accomplish the same thing by amping up drilling in California, allowing the Keystone pipeline and pumping even more shale oil.

    Weird that those things aren't on Friedman's list.

  • Nazdrakke||

    that you'll stop them from having money because you'll transition to 'greener' energy,

    Because it totally takes the resources of an oil empire to launch terrorist attacks or run a website. What a putz.

  • ||

    Ah, hadn't thought of that. Aside from possibly Iran though, I doubt any governments are intentionally giving terrorists money. They're too destabilizing a force, current (relatively) stable middle-eastern regimes probably don't want a repeat of what's happened in other insurgent-occupied countries.

  • Nazdrakke||

    I doubt any governments are intentionally giving terrorists money

    I'd be surprised if there wasn't some money going to terrorists in most of the ME nations just to help keep their focus on jihadi fantasies rather than the oppression at home. If I were a ME despot I'd be working under the table to point the motivated fanatical at unpopular external targets. I just don't think anything the US does will alter this.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I'd be surprised if there wasn't some money going to terrorists in most of the ME nations just to help keep their focus on jihadi fantasies rather than the oppression at home.

    This is a large part of the Saud-Wahabi relationship. The source of all evil in the modern middle east. And yeah, it's driven by oil wealth. Take the money away and the Wahabis are a bunch of desert rats killing each other.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Also because China will gladly buy the fuck out of that oil and natgas anyways. The US dollar isn't made of fairy dust which has the power to buy terrorists. Chinese money will buy terrorists and their toys just as easily as US money.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I think the Chinese will take a stronger position against the House of Saud that the US has, if they ever replace the US as hegemon.

  • Hollywood||

    You listen to Levin? How do you stomach his voice?

  • ||

    OT: I heard this spot from the California Association of Realtors on the radio on my drive home. Please enjoy the weird optimism about California's economy.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Jesse, are you in the LA area? I posted in the AM links about coming out to cali and was trying to see who all from there is in LA.

  • ||

    Ha, I overslept today and missed the links. I'm about 5-10 minutes south of LAX in Manhattan Beach. playa manhattan is possibly tucked in the same neighborhood as I am and Hugh is on the north side. A Serious Man is in Irvine, EDG is in Long Beach. I'm sure there are more. You didn't get much of a response in AM Links.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Awesome, we're gonna be staying all over the place while we're there. Farmer's Daughter, The Queen whatsernuts, some other famous place.

    My wife and mother in law have been planning the trip, sooo, yeah. Gonna need to find some fun things to do other than be annoying tourists.

  • ||

    The Queen Mary isn't far. I don't know about Farmer's Daughter. Feel free to shoot me an email if you want to coordinate. You should probably trawl the PM links for people living in the Pacific timezone though.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Will do. I have a few libtard friends that I'll be meeting up with. So, I'll schedule them for a different night than you guys.

  • ||

    Aww I love libtards, they make the best faces when they realize that you've chipped away at the foundation of their point without saying anything objectionable.

  • Irish||

    they make the best faces when they realize that you've chipped away at the foundation of their point without saying anything objectionable.

    Really? Because in my experience, if a progressive gets beaten in an argument, they simply pretend you said something objectionable, whether you did or not.

    This is why Tony gets obliterated and then immediately calls us evil and heartless.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I like the analogy: Arguing with a libtard is like playing chess with a puppy. They don't understand the game, they just knock over all the pieces, piss on the board, and the prance around victoriously.

  • Coeus||

    Really? Because in my experience, if a progressive gets beaten in an argument, they simply pretend you said something objectionable, whether you did or not.

    After I won an argument with a progtard about "no one's talking about white people and guns" by using a 20 second google search (found articles from almost every major news organization), he called me "a non-racist white supremacist".

  • ||

    Really? I've found they just retrench on a tangentially related point.

    Even if we agreed that national background checks were a good idea, using pictures of dead children who wouldn't have been saved by the policy is repugnant.

    No you may have a [priceless face]...NRA MONIEZ!

    I'll take that as your concession on the point.

  • SweatingGin||

    I find they try to shout me down. At least, usual sparring partner. Pisses him way the fuck off.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    These are the meat is murder, gunz r bad, tree huggin, algore's cock sucking kind of libtards.

    Aside from that, they have great personalities.

  • ||

    heh, the local real estate tycoon ( rent seeking bastard ) was giving that same blather on the radio here. Sales! Sales! Sales! The market is looking up!

    I was driving past for sale signs at the time....they were rotting off of their legs and barely legible. Others were invisible behind weeds.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    MONTREAL - A man is wanted by police for having stolen hundreds of dollars' worth of sex toys from an adult shop near Montreal.

    Police are looking for a man in his thirties who made off Friday with bags stuffed with $830 worth of stolen adults-only products.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Man, that guy must have been pretty on pretty hard times to rob a porn store.

  • SweatingGin||

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    "Police are looking for a man in his thirties who made off Friday with bags stuffed with $830 worth of stolen adults-only products."

    ..because that's one party they want to crash.

  • Coeus||

    OT:

    James Hansen wins the Ridenhour Courage Prize.

    The truth is we all should be alarmed by the great moral crisis of our time. By destroying a livable climate we are stealing the future from our children and grandchildren and countless future generations.
    To save this spineless world from itself, supplying the truth isn’t enough. You need to supply the spine, too. You need to be courageous. And so Jim has been forced by the times — and by his moral convictions — to become an activist.
    There is a saying that applies to Jim, “One man with courage is a majority.”

    I'm feeling a bit nauseous.

  • ||

    Still hammering away at that in the face of study after study after study showing it is likely bullshit. Gone is the term 'global warming' and now it is just the nebulous 'destroying a livable climate'. Fucking brilliant, now even I am convinced.

    I dont think the word courage means what they think it means.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I dont think the word courage means what they think it means.

    Neither does the word "science".

  • Coeus||

    He had the courage to lie and manipulate data for a cause he believed in.

  • db||

    His actions are "courage" in the same way it is "courageous" to ride around in Pittsburgh with a Steelers bumper sticker, or around Baltimore sporting Ravens paraphenalia. Try swapping the two.

  • An0nB0t||

    He *is* pretty courageous if he thinks he's going to fuck with my private property.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    I take it that almost nobody here was interested in actually discussing Drugs and their place in society?

    For myself; I favor legalizing pretty much everything, waiting five years, and then re-banning anything that proves to cause worse problems that the interminable War On Drugs. On the other hand, I also feel that Leary was a pollock, on a wide variety of grounds. I just don't think that being a pillock should be illegal.

  • Coeus||

    I take it that almost nobody here was interested in actually discussing Drugs and their place in society?

    Almost everybody here understands that the government should have no authority to regulate what you put in your own body. What is there to discuss?

  • Robert||

    What there is to discuss is how to negotiate or otherwise deal with the rest of society, who don't "understand" that.

  • ||

    I'm always torn on the issue because I've seen enough people really fucked up from heroin and meth. I realize that some of that is because people felt unable to seek help as necessary due to the WoD, and it behooves producers to make higher concentration products to make smuggling easier, but having had to clean my sister and her boyfriend's personal heroin den, I don't know that there's an upside there.

  • Coeus||

    but having had to clean my sister and her boyfriend's personal heroin den, I don't know that there's an upside there.

    Good thing you've never been a splooge-mopper in a porno theater, or you'd probably be ambivalent about porn legality, too.

  • ||

    Go on...

    Naw, I'd rather there be decent avenues for people to get their high on rather than illicit methods, And working in medicine I see constantly how badly our system of drug classification is. I'm enthusiastic about 9/10 of the legalize it now agenda, but you'll have to forgive me if my birth mom missing most of the last halloween I spent with her before she died because she was out scoring a speed ball makes me grudging about that last 1/10.

  • Coeus||

    I've lost several relatives to alcoholism, but you don't see me calling for alcohol prohibition. It's understandable to have feelings about it, but you have to realize that those feelings have no bearing on what the laws should be.

    But I guess that as long as it's a grudging acceptance of freedom you possess, then you're on the right side.

  • ||

    You're driving home a point that needn't be driven home. I understand and agree with the underlying principle that self-ownership overrides other impulses, but I'm the only person in my nuclear family who hasn't been ravaged or killed by poor decision making related to drug use. Were I talking in a place where I didn't already assume everyone was broadly on board with legalization, I wouldn't waffle on the point the point because it's better than the alternatives even if I have reservations about some of the consequences.

  • Coeus||

    Fair enough. And my condolences for the family.

  • ||

    Eh, it's just how things are. I'm still waiting to hear back from my mom about my little sister's most recent court date.

    Speaking of which, they arrested her for having skipped out on community service for a non-drug related crime. She was muling some drugs for her BF, and then was booked with "attempting to smuggle drugs into prison." What kind of bullshit is that!? YOU FUCKERS ARRESTED HER WITH DRUGS ON HER PERSON, she wasn't planning to go to jail.

  • Irish||

    She was muling some drugs for her BF, and then was booked with "attempting to smuggle drugs into prison."

    How people can look at things like this and not grow to have an unyielding hatred of the state is beyond me.

  • Coeus||

    How people can look at things like this and not grow to have an unyielding hatred of the state is beyond me.

    Battered spouse syndrome. "The government only does these things because it really cares for me."

  • ||

    Eh, I had to carefully explain to my grandmother (my sister hit her up for bail money last time) that they were padding the charges so she'd plea down more readily.

    She had a really hard time grasping the idea that the government was being that vindictive.

  • Irish||

    Eh, I had to carefully explain to my grandmother (my sister hit her up for bail money last time) that they were padding the charges so she'd plea down more readily.

    I'm convinced this is also the purpose of sentence 'amplifiers' like hate crime statutes.

  • ||

    I don't think so. I think those are there to show favor to favored groups. They also often give the feds a reason to jump into the fray.

  • Nazdrakke||

    I'm convinced this is also the purpose of sentence 'amplifiers' like hate crime statutes.

    Dunno, Irish, but I've got a feeling that those are true-blue progressive ideals at work, rather than the typical legal piling on. Hate-crime laws sicken me like few other things. Proscribing thoughts and emotions is new-man methodology.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    I'm always torn on the issue because I've seen enough people really fucked up from heroin and meth. I realize that some of that is because people felt unable to seek help as necessary due to the WoD, and it behooves producers to make higher concentration products to make smuggling easier

    There's also the issue of impurities and inconsistent dosage from black market products.

    There'd probably be more alcohol related issues for users during prohibition too

  • ||

    I have zero interest in recreational drugs, the same amount that the government should have.

    Non-recreational drugs place in society is between doc and patient, no one else.

  • SIV||

    Non-recreational drugs place in society is between doc and patient, no one else.

    How 'bout pharmacist and customer?

  • ||

    OK...any medical professional that the consumer decides to consult with.

    More vodka needed. I have been off the stuff for a while due to possible med interactions. I think a little goes a long way after you are off for a while.

  • SweatingGin||

    I've enjoyed weed in the past, but have been away from it for years and don't really miss it. Nothing but clean, wholesome booze for me now.

    But yea, I lean towards -- the things that "should" be banned (meth), there wouldn't be a market for if other things were legal, or no WOD.

    Meth from some crazy redneck stealing sudafed and cooking it in an outhouse, or two amphetamine pills I bought from a vending machine, with a stamp of "Thompson Grade Good Morning" on it?

  • Coeus||

    the things that "should" be banned (meth),

    Why should meth be banned?

  • SweatingGin||

    That's what the scare quotes were for.

    Lightest possible "should" in that there's no reason for anyone to make it if less harmful things are readily available or even less harmful methods of making it.

    Let me put it this way: I wouldn't pay anyone to inflict violence on other people for having/using/making/selling meth. I'd like to see a world where the meth rack in the vending machine doesn't move much and eventually gets removed, while the speed one gets refilled as needed.

  • Coeus||

    I'd like to see a world where the meth rack in the vending machine doesn't move much and eventually gets removed, while the speed one gets refilled as needed.

    You've obviously never had good quality crystal. It's a whole 'nother animal. There will always be a demand for it.

  • Coeus||

    When are people going to learn that critising a woman is sexist?

    If one redacts ‘Jill’ from Politico’s piece and replaces it with ‘Jack’, the absurdity and sexism becomes all the more obvious:


    “It’s frustrating because he is such a smart person. When Jack is on his game, he is one of the smartest people I’ve ever met,” one staffer said. “But he’s not a naturally charismatic person — he’s not approachable.” You see? When was the last time the approachability of a male editor made for copy?

    ???

    When they did a story on her male predecessor.

    Am I going crazy here, or is there a whole chain of logic that these people use that I'm just not privy to?

  • ||

    Yes.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I really haven't a clue as to what they are using, but it certainly isn't logic. I read most of the article, and I couldn't find anything that would be "jaw dropping" because it was about a woman. They all seemed like justified complaints about any bad boss.

  • ||

    For them, any line of thinking, any twisting of facts, that forces reality into their bizarro narrative counts as logical.

    Arriving at any conclusion other than theirs is hate speech, racist, misogynist, etc etc.

  • Irish||

    “It’s frustrating because he is such a smart person. When Jack is on his game, he is one of the smartest people I’ve ever met,” one staffer said. “But he’s not a naturally charismatic person — he’s not approachable.”

    I'm pretty sure I've said something substantively similar to this about male bosses I've had. I don't know what universe Raw Story writers live in.

  • ||

    EARTHQUAKE! but it was a tiny one.

  • ||

    M3.2, just north of LAX, about 5 miles away.

  • SweatingGin||

    The real question is if twitter beat it, like xkcd predicts.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    That actually happened in the 2011 Virginia quake.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.....cial_media

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Wikipedia had an article dedicated to the earthquake by 2:03 PM, 12 minutes after the event

    Suddenly that "In case of fire, exit building before tweeting about it" sign doesn't look so ridiculous.

  • Virginian||

    http://ak1.polyvoreimg.com/cgi.....131143.jpg

    I was sitting at home. I felt it, then posted on my Facebook "Did the earth move for you too?"

    And the likes flowed in like water.

  • Coeus||

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    did someone say "pull my finger"?

  • SIV||

    Psilocybin Depression: UK (pending),Smoking cessation: US (ongoing)

    I always enjoyed smoking on mushrooms. Why don't they do a study on psilocybin and watching 1930s-40s American cartoons? I'll volunteer as long as there are no "placebos".

  • ||

    Speaking of the ravages of drug abuse, I'd hazard a guess I've seen more ruined lives, death, ruined bodies, etc. as a result of drugs than anybody else.

    I empathize with those whose lives have been negatively impacted by drugs, whether through their own use or friends or familar members.

    That doesn't mean I think the GOVERNMENT should be throwing people in jail for using them. Plenty of people have a lot of fun and use them responsibly. Some don't. Either way, it should be a personal choice. For those that get addicted and want help, help will be available but many people who use drugs don't want help. They just want to use drugs. We should be able to say "more power to you". In a truly free society.

  • ||

    longtorso got a hat tip in 24/7 for this

  • Nazdrakke||

    So here's a question for anyone still around. What do you think would happen if the WoD ended tomorrow? Full legalization, release of prisoners in jail purely on drug crimes, etc.

    I tend to believe that the short term effects would be pretty brutal until society would adjust to the new normal, and that on the balance there might be a slight decrease in drug use as a result. That's the short of it, not the total.

    Anyone else kick around what a post WoD America might look like?

  • Anonymous Coward||

  • Irish||

  • ||

    Oh Irish, let's just assume the answer is yes for you.

  • Coeus||

    Kung-fu grip fucked up my sex life in my late teens.

  • Anonymous Coward||

    If it hasn't fallen off, and can you can still knock the salt shaker off the table with it, you're gonna be okay.

  • ||

    Agreed. The addition of lubricant to my masturbatory technique was a revelation.

  • Nazdrakke||

    Brobible? Do I even want to know?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    anyone who uses the pre-fix "bro" deserves a swift kick in the nuts.

  • Irish||

    The bro-nuts?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    it's called "polishing the monocle"

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    3 Doors Down bassist in rehab after listening to own music

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    really? nothing?

  • ||

    You're a Mac using Canadian, Pantsfan, nobody wants to make fun of you for being a HUGE 3 Doors Down fan. It'd just be mean.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    really? nothing?

  • ||

    GAH! My roommate and her bf are making "gin and sours" with my not cheap gin. They've already burned through my buffalo trace and my liter of delicious vodka in the past few weeks.

  • Tman||

    Where is this magical place of free booze?

    I don't need the sour.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    why do you let them walk all over you

  • ||

    My roommate and I are long-time friends. I generally get along well with the guys she dates. He's consumed most of the alcohol I have in the community shelves and leaves exactly an 1/8th of an inch behind in the bottles. I have no problem if he wants to take a drink out of the community stash, but drinking all but two cocktails worth of liquor and then leaving a nearly empty bottle is just dickish. I haven't had a chance to chat with my roommate without him right there.

  • Tman||

    Some pigs are more equal than others.

  • db||

    Stop replenishing the supply. Or buy the cheapest rotgut you can find for the common bar.

  • gaoxiaen||

    Add a little methanol.

  • Coeus||

    I always have cheap stuff and staples. I tell all my friends that I I catch them using the good stuff on mixed drinks, then all they're allowed to use after that is the cheap shit. Actually ran more than a few women out of my house with that rule.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    You can't politicize morality.

  • Dweebston||

    You can't legislate morality, or so the saying goes. You can politicize it quite lucratively.

  • An0nB0t||

    As though psychedelics are a greater threat to Americans than institutionalized coercion used to enforce prohibition. Jebus. Sometimes it really does feel like we're the only sane people in this whole country.

    One of my favorite parts of Huston Smith's recent autobiography was his account of descending into the basement of Mem Hall along with several other perennialists, Tim Leary, and the future Ram Dass to take LSD. IIRC, LSD was then legal because no one had heard of it--it had no reputation outside of folk who'd be interested in shamanistic practices or entheogens like peyote. The idea of Smith, who is probably among the most genial, open, and pleasant men to ever live, dropping acid with Leary and Dass in a Unitarian church basement makes me laugh every time I think about it.

    If there's one thing that I'd change about Rothbardian paleo-libertarianism, it's the tendency toward social and personal conservativism. Many of the early adopters of psychedelic culture and proto-hippies like Huxley and Watts had strong libertarianish leanings, for obvious reasons--taking shit that leads you to question the fundamental nature of reality might also make you question the nature, role, and necessity of the coercive state. The hacker/Jillette generation is a decent antidote to the bowtie wearers and Rockwell types, but it'd be nice to bring in a few Terrance McKennas to keep us from being culturally pigeonholed (and secure a steady supply of good drugs).

  • DWC||

    I drank a lot and smoked pot and hash as a kid. Now I can't even enjoy drinking, except for the taste of a glass of wine or a beer once in a blue moon. I never really did enjoy pot. Never did any hallucinagens(however the fuck you spell it). I do envy people who get a kick out of drinking. I would like to try DMT or Mushrooms for their proclaimed mind opening properties. I could use a reset of my brain. Have no idea how to acquire these things however. I do know that many people claim that their lives have been significantly altered for the better because of their mushroom or dmt experiences. No society can claim to be free in any meaningful way if it dictates what you may or may not ingest.

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