Rep. Jose Serrano on Hugo Chavez: "a leader that understood the needs of the poor."

courtesy happylibertariancourtesy happylibertarianIn case you thought that only useful idiots like actor Sean Penn were willing to overlook the strongman Hugo Chavez's willingness to tyrannize his own people in the pursuit of "social justice" and self-aggrandizement, there's always Rep. Jose Serrano (D-N.Y.), who eulogized Chavez thus:

Hugo Chavez was a leader that understood the needs of the poor. He was committed to empowering the powerless.R.I.P. Mr. President.

— Jose E. Serrano (@RepJoseSerrano) March 5, 2013

Over at his official House site, Serrano writes

“President Chavez was a controversial leader. But at his core he was a man who came from very little and used his unique talents and gifts to try to lift up the people and the communities that reflected his impoverished roots. He believed that the government of the country should be used to empower the masses, not the few. He understood democracy and basic human desires for a dignified life. His legacy in his nation, and in the hemisphere, will be assured as the people he inspired continue to strive for a better life for the poor and downtrodden.”

courtesy runrun.escourtesy runrun.esIt's stunning what people will excuse if the right magic words are sprinkled over the repression. From Freedom House's 2013 take on Venezuela:

Politicization of the judicial branch has increased under Chávez, and high courts generally do not rule against the government....

Venezuela’s murder rate is among the world’s highest....

The increasingly politicized military has stepped up its participation in the delivery of public services. Foreign officials assert that the military has adopted a permissive attitude toward drug trafficking and Colombian rebel activity inside Venezuela...

Property rights are affected by the government’s penchant for price controls and nationalizations....

The formal and constitutional rights of indigenous people, who make up about 2 percent of the population, have improved under Chávez, though such rights are seldom enforced by local authorities....

Amnesty International's take:

Human rights defenders were threatened and politically motivated charges continued to be used against government critics. Accountability mechanisms to ensure justice or to act as an effective deterrent against police abuses remained weak. There were serious episodes of violence in the grossly overcrowded prison system leading to a number of deaths.

In 2011, after Chavez refused to allow President Obama's ambassador, Larry Leon Palmer, take residence, the Washington Post wrote,

Will the next nominee speak truthfully about Mr. Chavez's destruction of democracy, and about his ties to terrorists and drug traffickers? Let's hope Congress provides him or her with that opportunity.

It's easy to mock Chavez because of his outspoken anti-American attitudes but you know what? That wasn't the problem with Chavez. He was a thug and a dictator who, like all such despots, spent most of his time and energy destroying the lives of the people he was supposed to help. That's his real crime - not taking swipes at George W. Bush or attacking the U.S. during overlong U.N. speeches.

And that's why it's pathetic to see fools like Jose Serrano making excuses for a guy who first and foremost hurt the people he ostensibly cared about so goddamn much.

Update: As Instapundit points out, Hugo Chavez, man of the people, somehow amassed a fortune of $1 billion.

More Update: Sean Penn tells Hollywood Reporter:

"Today the people of the United States lost a friend it never knew it had. And poor people around the world lost a champion." says Penn in a statement to The Hollywood Reporter. "I lost a friend I was blessed to have. My thoughts are with the family of President Chavez and the people of Venezuela."

Let's be clear: Most champions of poor people need not arrest political dissidents, create an unaccountable prison system, and otherwise scoff at limits on power.

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  • Sevo||

    "Hugo Chavez was a leader that understood the needs of the poor."
    He should have! He went out of his way to make a lot of people poor.

  • Drake||

    And he understood they needed a strongman to blame corporations and the rich.

  • AlmightyJB||

    If people really knew what would happen to this country if people like Serrano ever gained complete control people like him would never be elected again. We need a ghost of christmas future.

  • SweatingGin||

    Pft. Just cause he wants to repeal the 22nd amendment.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    more like Democrazy!

  • Whahappan?||

    Just look at Venezuela.

  • AlmightyJB||

    I know it seems so simple to you and I but most people in this country can't seem to make that connection. Ignorance is bliss so they say.

  • Libertarius||

    "A leader who understood that he needed people to be poor in order for him to rule them, because self-efficient humans have no need for collectivist free lunch salesmen."

    FIFH!

  • Andrea||

    my roomate's step-aunt makes $72/hr on the internet. She has been fired from work for 8 months but last month her check was $17920 just working on the internet for a few hours. Read more on this site... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....13925.html

  • ||

    You know, watching all these people slobber over such a shithead is kind of surreal, much like this.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Funny how all those "moderate" leftists who would no doubt be considered conservative in Europe etc. always come out of the woodwork to effusively praise third-world socialist dictators like Chavez.

  • Killazontherun||

    Don't forget 03-05-12 when they want to have the next big conversation on guns.

  • Jerry on the boat||

    For a second there I thought he was eulogizing Dear Leader.

  • Aresen||

    May he rot in a Socialist Paradise.

  • ||

    have him cremated and his ashed spread over North Korea.

  • Ronny Paulino||

    CelebNetWorth.com (not sure how credible, whatever) estimates Chavez's net worth at $1 billion. "some animals are more equal than others"

  • Pro Libertate||

    He was a sweet, sweet. . .fucking dictator.

    It makes me absolutely ill that Americans sing praises to that evil fuck. He trashed his country's economy and smashed civil liberties. Those who praise that, want that. Full stop.

  • Gladstone||

    Or libertarians sing his praises because he was anti-US.

  • Irish||

    I've still got a pounding in my head from those goddamn Lew Rockwell posts, Gladstone. I'll never forgive you.

  • The Immaculate Trouser||

    Yup. In some ways it's worse when libertarians do it: whereas liberal twits don't really know any better in most cases, libertarians don't have the excuse of ignorance or simple clinging to a simplistic "culture war" paradigm to excuse their apologia.

  • David Emami||

    Well, it seems lately that whenever someone dies who has called the US "imperialist", the Reason editors write up a piece about how libertarians should love the guy and overlook how much of an authoritarian he was.

    Brian? Nick? Got something in the works?

  • RBS||

    Citation needed.

  • David Emami||

  • David Emami||

    And one more here, because the editor will only let me do two links max:

    http://reason.com/blog/2012/10.....ern-as-lib

  • RBS||

    Those pieces don't really support your assertion that "libertarians should love" Vidal, Zinn or McGovern.

  • JW||

    Don't let the complete and total lack of support for his assertion stop the narrative, RBS.

  • David Emami||

    I wasn't asserting that libertarians should love them. I was asserting that the authors asserted that we libertarians should love them. Are you saying the articles didn't heap praise on them, which, since Reason is a magazine about libertarianism, implies that libertarians should think highly of them? If these were, say, chefs, the implication wouldn't be there, but these were political writers or politicians.

  • ||

    And how many of them were horrible dictators who oppressed a nation of people? Oh that's right, none of them. Gee, that couldn't possibly be s significant difference, could it?

  • David Emami||

    And how many of them were horrible dictators who oppressed a nation of people? Oh that's right, none of them. Gee, that couldn't possibly be s significant difference, could it?

    Yes, the fact that Chavez actually implemented the socialism Vidal and Zinn could only advocate might well make Brian and Nick balk at praising him. My quibble with them on this issue is what they're willing to excuse in the way of ideas, and for what. If Chavez had been a writer and not a ruler, there would already be a Reason article like the ones I refer to, saying "yes, yes, he was an avowed socialist -- but he criticized US foreign policy!"

    Marcuse and Fromm don't have the blood on their hands that Stalin does. That would't excuse praising Marcuse and Fromm.

  • ||

    If Chavez had been a writer and not a ruler, there would already be a Reason article like the ones I refer to, saying "yes, yes, he was an avowed socialist -- but he criticized US foreign policy!"

    You mean it's possible to appreciate some things a person says while criticizing other things? Who knew?

    Marcuse and Fromm don't have the blood on their hands that Stalin does. That would't excuse praising Marcuse and Fromm.

    If you're praising them for things that are praiseworthy and not those worth criticizing, the fact they never oppressed anyone actually DOES go a long way. If the only way we can talk about someone who had good ideas is if they were perfect, I guess Reason better just close down shop. How DARE they talk about the positive contributions imperfect people made!

  • David Emami||

    You mean it's possible to appreciate some things a person says while criticizing other things? Who knew?

    Certainly it's possible. But in the pattern I'm citing, the individuals are being praised for things that only some libertarians believe in (anti-interventionism) while handwaving those men's absolute antipathy to the free market, which is a core libertarian value. It would be like writing a Reason article praising a hypothetical person for (more or less random examples) being an outspoken atheist even though they're also outspoken advocates of censorship. Libertarians are probably more likely to be atheists than the average person, just as they're more likely to be non-interventionists, but neither is a defining characteristic, while capitalism and free speech are. You can believe in God, and believe that foreign interventions can potentially be right, and still be a libertarian. You can't be one if you advocate socialism or censorship. Nor should you be held up as praiseworthy to libertarians qua libertarians.

  • Gladstone||

    So Christopher Hitchens? A Foreign Interventionist Marxist but an atheist so that was enough for Reason.

  • David Emami||

    Hitchens is, I'll admit, a counterexample -- he agrees with the Reason editor's apparent opinions on one libertarian unessential (atheism), disagrees on another unessential (interventionism), and disagrees with an essential (capitalism). He's bit of an odd duck, though. He claimed (as I recall) to be a Marxist but not a socialist. How one manages that, or what it really means, I'm not sure. If all he means is "economics drives history" or something like that, then it's just a prediction or explanation, not an advocated policy.

    Now, if someone is good on some core libertarian beliefs but bad on others, then by all means, they should be praised in libertarian terms on those things they're good on, and criticized on the others. The ACLU is an organizational example of this: good on some speech/press issues, awful on gun control and private property rights.

  • robc||

    Of course, in your list of examples, McGovern was good on capitalism. Not in his political life, of course, but 90s and on.

    Which was the point of the praise.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    But, that's just the point. A Vidal or a Zinn is what gives a Chavez cover for what they do. When push comes to shove, Chavez was little more than a third world pimp. A two bit thug. He wouldn't be taken at all seriously, even in Venezuela if he didn't have "intellectuals" giving him legitimacy and creating an intellectual environment where U.S. politicians and Hollywood stars can pretend he was some kind of hero.

  • MoreFreedom||

    I've heard no libertarian praise Chavez. Instead what I've seen are articles such as this which, as rcp.com entitles this article "Thug Chavez was no friend to the poor."

    What makes you think "libertarians sing his praises"? You need to improve your reading comprehension if you think it's this article.

  • Gladstone||

    Read the stuff I posted from Rockwell and Raimondo?

  • OldMexican||

    Property rights are affected by the government’s penchant for price controls and nationalizations...


    The main advantage of pandering to the poor is that they lack the sophistication to understand just how ass-fucking these price controls and nationalizations end up being for them. They become willing participants in the farce because they simply do not know better. This is the reason why so-called democracy is so dangerous.

  • MoreFreedom||

    Excellent post OldMexican. Our founders knew democracies perished once voters started voting themselves funds out of the treasury. We're on that road thanks to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.

    Whenever government gets involved in commerce, it only serves to raise prices. But those who think they are getting something from government for free, will vote for it (and sometimes they do get it for free, but paid for by taxpayers which results in increased prices for everything else as those taxes are added to everything taxpayers produce). Even the vast majority of seniors on Medicare think they are getting discounted medical care. The reality is they pay more out of pocket after they get on Medicare, than before Medicare existed!!!! www.huffingtonpost.com/david-g.....02229.html

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    Chavez & Penn in scrubs and labcoats = IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED HEALTHCARE WORKS!

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    COME ON, JUST LOOK AT THE CONCERN ON SEAN PENN'S FACE!

  • Sevo||

    Uh, that's a result of the lunch they served.
    Want Pepto Bismol? Get on the waiting list, prol.

  • ||

    I thought it was gas... or 'roids from the plane trip...

  • Generic Stranger||

    He was committed to empowering the powerless.R.I.P. Mr. President.

    If you look at it the right way, this is more or less true. Prior to his "election", he was powerless, and he was absolutely committed to rectifying that fact.

  • OldMexican||

    He believed that the government of the country should be used to empower the masses, not the few.


    And he understood this so well that he saw over the several amendments to a constitution his own people drafted, to provide him with more powers.

    He understood democracy and basic human desires for a dignified life.


    And there's nothing that furthers human dignity than relying on black markets to buy basic goods because your toilet-paper of a currency and price controls created artificial shortages.

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    I wish I could find it, but I recall a video on youtube of him berating the Venezuelan public for not voting in favor of some BS amendment or other he concocted, and pledging to them that he was just going to go ahead and do whatever he wanted within the next few months anyway. For the Good of Teh Peoplez, of course.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    paging barfman, barfman please pick up the white courtesy phone.

  • Gladstone||

    Found this link at Rockwell: http://www.theglobeandmail.com...../comments/

    Unsurprisingly the comments are not Pro-Paul. And they have nothing to do with opposing his foreign policy views.

    Rockwell is unable to see the irony that by his own views those are the proper libertarian view!

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Gladstone,

    Unsurprisingly the comments are not Pro-Paul. And they have nothing to do with opposing his foreign policy views.


    Yeah, well, most of those comments are the usual run-of-the-mill platitudes about government and ROADZ! and shit like that.

  • Gladstone||

    You do realize that you are supporting an American politician over the interests of anti-American Canadians? According to Raimondo and Rockwell that makes you an imperialist warmonger.

    The fact that you aren't in a drug cartel, the Zapatistas, Communist Party of Mexico or the PRD makes you an American puppet.

  • Duke||

    Here's a jewel:

    They [libetarians] also believe in fairy tales like "free markets" (another code) which can never, have never nor should exist. We all know how corporations act when they believe they can get away with it or in the absence of regulation.

  • Sevo||

    KORPORASHUNS kill their customers at the first opportunity!

  • MJGreen||

    Whatever. We believe in free markets beca--

    CODE WORD ACTIVATED! MUST KILL BLACK HOBO!

  • Irish||

    Free markets have never existed...but free markets were at fault for both the Great Depression and the 2007 housing bubble.

    Left wing double think, at its finest.

  • Gladstone||

  • OldMexican||

    Ok. So, what about it?

  • Gladstone||

    Well PS hates Klaus and I thought it would be interesting to see his reaction to a post praising as some heroic opponent of the NWO.

  • johnl||

    The Klaus hate is hard to understand.

  • ||

    I hate Klaus because I've been living in the Czech Republic for close to 20 years and I know what a sleazy piece of shit he is.

    That doesn't mean I don't hate the socialists even more. Why can't I hate them both? I would've thought that the false dichotomy would be pretty clear to libertarians. Am I supposed to love Bush now, because I hate Obama?

    As I pointed out in my screed this morning, Klaus's actions as PM consisted of things like pressuring government owned banks to not act in their own interests but be nice and ignore bad loans for the good of the economy. Not to mention looking the other way when his buddies stole billions because, as he says, "There is an air of criminality around all economic acts"

    Thanks for the link, Gladstone, that's the sort of blind Klaus worshiping bullshit I was trying to show for the pathetic naiveté it is.

  • sloopyinca||

    He believed that the government of the country should be used to empower the masses, not the few.

    How about empowering the individual, asshole?

    He understood democracy and basic human desires for a dignified life.

    And he ignored both tenets regularly.

    His legacy in his nation, and in the hemisphere, will be assured as the people he inspired continue to strive for a better life for the poor and downtrodden.

    No. He was the latest tin-pot dictator in a hemisphere whose history is littered with them. He is merely a name on a timeline of oppressive regimes in Latin America.

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    He believed that the government of the country should be used to empower the masses, not the few.

    How about empowering the individual, asshole?

    Well,...to be fair, he did much to empower individual assholes within the masses of bureaucrats, cronies, flunkies and other slaves to power within the ranks of his politburo.

  • OldMexican||

    And that's why it's pathetic to see fools like Jose Serrano making excuses for a guy who first and foremost hurt the people he supposedly cared about so goddamn much.


    Then there are the Obama supporters....

  • JWatts||

    I think in this case, it's really one and the same.

  • Tman||

    I work with a guy from Venezuela, and he said everyone will be celebrating his death tonight. I'm sure you will see footage of mass mourners just like you did when Kim Jong-il died.

    And if you believe that the majority of Venezuelans loved this guy, than you are Dennis Rodman level stupid. And that my friends, is pretty fucking stupid.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tman,

    I work with a guy from Venezuela,


    I've worked with several, and most just loathed the guy to bits. He was the reason we saw a diaspora of Venezuelans to Mexico, the U.S., Colombia, etc.

  • Irish||

    What people actually living in Venezuela thought is irrelevant. The people hounded by Chavez are irrelevant. The people whose property was stolen are irrelevant. The people attacked by Chavez' thugs are irrelevant. All those who fled the idiocy of Chavez' Venezuela are irrelevant.

    They're probably just rich people who had to leave because it was being turned into a workers' paradise.

  • General Butt Naked||

    They're probably just rich people who had to leave because it was being turned into a workers' paradise.

    That's actually a common sentiment among the apologists. That is, that the people that fled were oil company owning exploiters that got their comeuppance when the workers took back what was rightfully theirs.

  • Sevo||

    And then the 'workers' had no idea how to run the place and it went broke.
    See, oh, Triumph motorcycles; I think they're made in Taiwan now.

  • sloopyinca||

    Look, the words of a man that fucked Madonna should always be taken with a grain of salt.

    Rodman?
    Penn?

    And note that Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch came out pre-Madonna wedding and everything else Guy Ritchie has touched was garbage. It leads me to believe idiocy can be sexually transmitted.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Don't forget A-Rod.

  • Killazontherun||

    I hope not, Rodman fucked Carmen Electra after fucking Madonna, so that makes me susceptible to this retardation disease. Let me check, does this make sense to me . .Chavez cared about the PEOPLE . . Nope, I'm good. Anyway, about that that one time dunphy brought over his wife Morgan Fairchild to swing with me and Carmen . .

  • sloopyinca||

    Wait, so you really did fuck Carmen Electra?

  • ||

    Hasn't everyone?

  • Killazontherun||

    I met some of my best friends on that chain.

  • RBS||

    Wait, you fucked Dennis Rodman?

  • ||

    Hasn't everyone?

  • Killazontherun||

    I met some of my best friends on that chain.

  • sloopyinca||

    Yeah, he only threw the Carmen Electra reference out to throw us off the scent of his accidental confession to having had relations with The Worm.

  • Killazontherun||

    But I fucked Rodman BEFORE he met Madonna so I saw no reason to point that out.

  • sloopyinca||

    Whatever, dude. Next thing you know, you'll tell us that Rodman stole your wedding dress, which is what caused the breakup.

  • Killazontherun||

    He said he was just going to keep it to remember me by . . . bwhahaha! You are worse than Mike Wallace, sloop.

  • Cytotoxic||

    And if you believe that the majority of Venezuelans loved this guy

    They repeatedly re-elected him and gave him new powers.

  • XM||

    But if they hated the guy, how was he reelected? Fraud?

    He got apparently 55% of the vote. There were enough socialists in that place, or people loved free stuff.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I keep seeing commercials by Joe Kennedy for Chavez and Citgo oil helping out the cash-strapped heating consumer here in the United States. It's weird.

  • ||

    "The people of Venezuela..." Yeah, fuck you Joe Kennedy.

    It's like a commercial for communism more than for an oil company.

  • Guy Laguy||

    I hope someone else who has the good of the people at heart picks up the torch.I am sorry to hear of his passing.You cannot stand up against multinationals and be portrayed as anything but a villain by western press.

  • sloopyinca||

    Except, of course, that the western press has been lovingly talking about his greatness.

    Meh, either way this is a lousy attempt at trolling.

  • John||

    So if he was "going up against multinationals" and not just robbing his country, how exactly did he come up with that billion dollars? Was he one of the secret founders of Facebook or something?

  • Lord Peter Wimsey||

    "You cannot stand up against multinationals and be portrayed as anything but a villain by the Western press."

    Yes, and if you make the right noises about evil Korperashuns, trolling little shits will lick your balls even after you're dead. Funny how that works.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Update: As Instapundit points out, Hugo Chavez, man of the people, somehow amassed a fortune of $1 billion.

    But.....he could have made way more than that in the private sector....

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    But.....he could have made way more than that in the private sector....

    As the virtual C.E.O. & C.F.O of Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA), with the Chinese govn't throwing pallets of cash through all of his windows for lopsided "oil for credit" contracts,whilst skimming the fat… that’s about as close to private sector as he wanted to get, right there. Narco-trafficking, however....

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    What a douche. If this guy represents the typical American politician, our experiment in liberty is doomed to failure.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Good riddance to a commie rat bastard. Congratulations to Venezuela, and I wish a similar relief to the people of North Korea and Cuba.

    -jcr

  • Sevo||

    And the USA.

  • XM||

    The death of the first two Kims (Il Sung, Jong IL) did not change NK's fortunes.

    Dictators are merely vessels of oppression. Someone else can take their place.

  • John||

    Life imitates Hollywood.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_new.....offee?lite

    Awesome Dude.

  • John||

    For those too young to get the joke

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hReFx1kjuIE

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    I guess that would include me, because I immediately thought of Woody Harrelson in Kingpin

  • John||

    I think that scene ripped off the original in Fast Times, which BTW is one of the better teen comedies ever made.

  • General Butt Naked||

    "One of the better"? Are you out of your fucking mind? Fast Times is the teen comedy movie (outside of The Last American Virgin, that is).

  • John||

    It is one of the great ones. I would put Animal House and Caddy Shack on the same level.

  • sloopyinca||

    Caddyshack (one fucking word, John!) isn't a teen movie. Far from it.

    Fast Times is certainly in the top 5. In no particular order:
    Fast Times
    Heathers
    Sixteen Candles
    Better Off Dead
    American Graffiti

  • John||

    Caddyshack is the story of a bunch of teenage caddys. I would count it as a teen movie. Sure there are adults in it. But I still think it counts.

    Regardless I really can't argue with your list except that Heathers has not aged well and Animal House is completely brilliant and should be on the list instead.

  • sloopyinca||

    I draw a bright line between college and teen movies, which is why Animal House isn't on the list. IMO, it is one of the five best comedies of all time though.

  • C. Anacreon||

    hard to argue with your list

  • mgd||

    Better Off Dead FTW. Too bad Cusack is such a fucking retard, but that movie is absolutely hilarious.

  • JWatts||

    Ferris Bueller's Day Off
    Risky Business

  • General Butt Naked||

    But are those really "teen" movies. They're not about high school, so I'd say no.

    And I wasn't joking about The Last American Virgin, that movie is fucking awesome. If I had that movie and a blunt right now, I wouldn't post another comment for at least another 2 hours.

  • sloopyinca||

    Four of the five on my list have a large % of the scenes actually happen in school so I don't see why hey wouldn't be considered teen movies. I can see American Graffiti being left off the list since it's technically after school. Maybe I could replace it with the very underrated The Hollywood Knights.

  • John||

    American Grafitti is a teen movie. They are all 18. And it is one of my favorite movies of all time. How did Lucas make such a great movie with such great writing?

  • Mint Berry Crunch||

    Now I'm confusing myself.

    I said I was too young to know Fast Times (1982), but I definitely know Hollywood Knights (1980). I blame my parents and their random-ass, taped-off-HBO VHS collection.

    Apparently Robert Wuhl was almost 30 when he played Newbomb Turk.

  • Killazontherun||

    Back in the 70's movies would replay on network television a year after their release. I watched a lot of them with my dad. Dog Day Afternoon, Godather I & II, The Deer Hunter, Who'll Stop The rain (from an excellent novel, btw), One Who Flew Over the Cockoo's Next. What amazed me on revisiting the last one a few years back was how much I originally understood of it the first time around at the age of eight. How getting manned Billy up and cured him of his stuttering and then nurse Ratched berating him reinforced his insecurities causing him to relapse. I was flooded with the same sense of injustice that occurred on first view.

  • Killazontherun||

    How getting laid manned Billy up and cured him of his stuttering and then nurse Ratched berating him

  • General Butt Naked||

    I was responding to John's movies.

    This sort of nonsense and misunderstanding never happened when Miss Virginia Postrel was in charge.

  • Killazontherun||

    Last American Virgin. That's a movie you definitely want to show your son one day when he is a teen. Dude got totally dicked at the end for being some selfish bitch's friend zone chump.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Yeah, it's far more realistic than the typical "nice guy gets the girl" movie endings.

  • Cytotoxic||

    I never heard of it before.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    'The Last American Virgin' was excellent and is mostly forgotten.

  • sloopyinca||

    If only those attributes could also be said of you.

  • ||

    Which one?

  • sloopyinca||

    Hell, take your pick.

  • ||

    Are we talking about a pick of attributes, or commenters?

  • sloopyinca||

    I was saying I wish shrike was either excellent or mostly forgotten. He is neither.

  • ||

    Well not with you mentioning his name he isn't. Great job sloopy.

  • Ornithorhynchus||

    It's been way too long since I've seen Last American Virgin. I remember it as being decent, but not great.

    I recently found out it's a remake of an Isreali movie, which is supposed to be better.

  • DblEagle||

    Why the lack of affection for "Dazed and Confused" and the mid-70's high school experience? I went to HS in southern AZ and I could pick out a better part of my class in that movie.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Yup. I was in high school the year that movie is supposed to take place and it completely nails it.

  • sloopyinca||

    Phoebe Cates' boobies!

  • John||

    I was always a Jennifer Jason Leigh man. But Pheobe wasn't bad either.

  • ||

    Both of them rule(d).

  • Ted S.||

    I thought of Lee Marvin throwing a pot of hot coffee in Gloria Grahame's face in The Big Heat, and then her gaining revenge later in the movie by doing the same thing.

    All this almost 30 years before Fast Times.

  • General Butt Naked||

    The guy that was robbing the place was probably a disabled veteran that had his benefits cut by the sequester, and the clerk should have called social services instead of trying to murder the poor man with a pot of high-capacity caffeine assault-coffee.

    You sicken me with your glib attitude towards this, besides this is not the sort of link that should be posted in the Official Hugo Chavez Memorial Thread.

  • benji||

    I do wish there was a good source on that personal wealth. I entirely believe it and all, but all the sites that I keep finding listed as sources for it are kinda shoddy or is a tumblr.

    You just at least want something like the New York Times or Washington Post so it can't as easily be dismissed as Western capitalist lies. (Even though the Post and Times are right-wing reactionary media outlets.)

  • John||

    HAHAHAHA!!!

    Good one dude.

  • RBS||

    I have to stop reading the nighttime threads.

  • John||

    A special breed of retard comes out after dark apparently.

  • sloopyinca||

    Mostly.

  • Irish||

    Benji was insulting Chavez in the other thread, and people didn't realize when he was being sarcastic there either. He's not being serious, guys. He just has a very dry sense of humor.

  • John||

    Thanks. Good to know. Sadly, reality is so ridiculous, it is almost impossible to recognize satire anymore.

  • ||

    Poe's law.

  • benji||

    You need to talk to more foreign, primarily European, fedualists/monopolists they'll reject the New York Times as a source because it's a capitalist reactionary rag since it accepts advertising and supports the Democratic Party instead of a peoples revolution.

  • John||

    But it is owned by a shady Mexican cleptocrat. So it does have that going for it.

  • Irish||

    I'm clearly the only one who understands you, Benji. Your jokes fly over the heads of all the rest of these provincials.

  • Killazontherun||

    If the title champs from a libertarian blog can't learn to ignore Tony (thus, taking him seriously) what chance does the rest of the world have at learning anything?

    Sometimes, I say, pack it in, ignore politics, fuck principles, its all hate crimes from here on out. Maybe become a slaver like Rimbaud, a whore monger like Baudelaire, a fascist like Celine, and a thief and rapist like that one, er, French literature figure, who was that dude, fuck, losing my cred here . .

  • Cytotoxic||

    Sade?

  • sloopyinca||

    Talk about a smooth operator.

  • Killazontherun||

    Not, Sade, I'm already a pervert.

    Villon!

  • Fatty Bolger||

  • benji||

    I just mean that if WaPo or NYT runs a story that Chavez looted billions for personal gain (which again, I assume is true) it can't as easily be dismissed as right-wing lies or unsupported unlike if you link to Instapundit or Hot Air or that tumblr many people are sourcing the original figure from.

    Many will ignore it anyway since it makes them uncomfortable, but the fact they can't shoot the messenger right away is what makes them uncomfortable.

  • John||

    I never go there. But to those who do, are there some salty ham tears on DU and KOS tonight? I hope so.

  • Irish||

    Oh, hell yes.

    Thank you for reminding me of Democratic underground. This is some crazy shit, right here.

  • John||

    He is a heroic, world-historical figure. For many reasons, but most memorably because with the reversal of the anti-Chavez coup of 2002, the Venezuelan people and his government broke the pattern of nearly 180 years of bloody US interventions and nearly 60 years of CIA coup-making in Latin America. Along with the Argentinean debt default in the same period, this was a giant step in liberating a continent from the grip of foreign imperialism and from its homegrown oligarchs.

    How do these people feed themselves?

  • sloopyinca||

    How do these people feed themselves?

    Take a look at your next pay stub under "Federal Taxes".

  • Cytotoxic||

    You beat me.

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    John|3.5.13 @ 9:25PM|#

    ........................
    How do these people feed themselves remember to breathe?


    FIFY

  • From the Tundra||

    Of course. Local radio guy was discussing this piece from Hitchens:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/....._boss.html

    The comments there are worth the click.

  • Tman||

    I read those comments earlier.

    Faith in the complete ignorance of internet commenters: restored.

  • benji||

    On one non-politically focused forums off-topic section there were accusations being thrown at posters from Venezeuala who didn't support Chavez as being from oil families. Lots of "you can't hate Chavez or you hate the poor" and so on. One guy was really upset about what this means for the prospects of democracy across the globe.

    I quoted a few comments from there on the other thread.

    These are places that would vote like this if these were the candidates:
    Lenin - 35%
    Kucinich - 25%
    Obama - 25%
    Mao - 10%
    Johnson - 4%
    Romney - 1%

  • Irish||

    I think you underestimate Mao.

  • benji||

    Probably, but I think the Obama cult beats out the Mao cult since one of them is Chinese. That's a little too ethnic.

  • benji||

    In other words, they're populated by Reason staffers amirite?

  • MJGreen||

    "He did more good than harm." - A response I saw at a site I frequent that, sadly, is probably not sarcastic.

  • Sevo||

    "He made the trains run on time"
    You might respond to the idiot with that and see if s/he gets the point.

  • John C. Randolph||

    Did Mussolini actually make the trains run on time, or did he just force everyone to say that they ran on time?

    -jcr

  • JWatts||

    Does it matter?

  • benji||

    That's the most common sentiment I've seen. Sure he did all these bad things but he was working for the poor and made them better off. (It's never said how.)

  • Sevo||

    And, in fact, it is the exact, 180*, opposite.
    He managed, largely by mistake, to yield some positives.
    The net is negative. The world would be a better place if he were not born, or if someone offed him at age 5.

  • benji||

    One thing I can't get an answer on is why all the other countries in the region also improved or improved even more if they weren't implementing Chavez's amazing policies for the poor and instead falling into the neoliberal IMF trap.

  • Irish||

    He is a heroic, world-historical figure. For many reasons, but most memorably because with the reversal of the anti-Chavez coup of 2002, the Venezuelan people and his government broke the pattern of nearly 180 years of bloody US interventions and nearly 60 years of CIA coup-making in Latin America. Along with the Argentinean debt default in the same period, this was a giant step in liberating a continent from the grip of foreign imperialism and from its homegrown oligarchs.

    Um...doesn't a socialist country CREATE oligarchs? How does putting the entire government in the hands of a few people liberate a country from an oligarch, when that's actually the definition of an oligarchy?

  • John||

    Not if they are the right people it doesn't.

  • benji||

    No no no no, it's only in the hands of a few if the oligarchs don't represent THE PEOPLE. In socialism it's in the hands of all, the "few" you see "in charge" are just the people who sacrifice to run the day to day affairs and centrally plan so the rest of the workers can enjoy the paradise.

    It's your capitalist blinders creating this ignorance. Lift the veil.

  • Tman||

    "Lift the veil". Awesome.

    +1 tonight benji.

  • Gladstone||

    Justin Raimondo's twitter:
    Funny how anyone who points to the US govt as a criminal enterprise is piled on. Pure coincidence.

    https://twitter.com/JustinRaimondo

  • General Butt Naked||

    What does that even mean?

  • Irish||

    It means we're part of the United States imperialist machine, Generalisimo. We dance, like puppets on our master's strings.

  • ||

    I point out the US government as a criminal enterprise all the time. Can you guys dogpile me now? Make sure there's plenty of pinching and groping!

  • Irish||

    No. Last time you kept kicking whenever I applied the oil. You almost broke my nose. Unless you can promise me you'll behave, our dog piling days are over.

  • ||

    I'll take a Valium this time so that I'm less excitable.

  • ||

    It's no fun if there's no challenge.

  • ||

    That's exactly the way I see it.

  • General Butt Naked||

    For the 47th time, I'll will not dogpile you until the bitcoins are sent.

  • Killazontherun||

    I’ve got to be careful. So, what I’m gonna do is sneak up on it and jam my thumb in its butthole.

  • C. Anacreon||

    Crikey!

  • sloopyinca||

    Can you guys dogpile me now?

    Jesus Christ, Epi. Can't you keep your fetishes to yourself?

  • General Butt Naked||

    The mask has slipped.

  • ||

    Obviously not. Here, hold this cantaloupe for me for a second while I...

  • Irish||

    This is why there are no female libertarians. Because we make do without them.

  • ||

    It's like an English boarding school in here.

  • sloopyinca||

    In your dreams, pervert.

  • General Butt Naked||

    They're probably just rich people who had to leave because it was being turned into a workers' paradise.

    Reminds me of what Churchill said of the British navy, it's all "rum, buggery and the lash". Which was also a Pogues album.

  • General Butt Naked||

    errrr, english boarding school.

    control v fucking buggered me on that one.

  • sloopyinca||

    Why do you hate Sodomy, General?

  • ||

    Incorrect sodomy reference, Ken.

  • ||

    Rum, Sodomy and the Lash is also an academic work on sexuality in pirate culture. I was keen to read it before finding out that it was a dry academic tome, and not a lurid account of pirate on pirate action.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I could of swore it was "buggery". Even the pogues album says 'sodomy'.

    Buggery sounds more british though.

  • ||

    Sodomy and buggery pair equally well with rum.

  • Gladstone||

    Libertarians must love Chavez because the US doesn't.

  • VG Zaytsev||

    Sounds like Mondo's feeling sorry for himself again.

  • califernian||

    The US govt IS a criminal enterprise but not for the reasons they think it is.

  • Thane of Whiterun||

    ThinkProgress warns against eulogizing Chavez

    Sounds reasonable, right?

    No, apparently not -- read the comments.

    The comments that people are posting through Facebook under their real fucking names next to their real fucking pictures. Dammit.

  • Thane of Whiterun||

    This is flat painful:

    Holy Crap! What a load of carefully worded liberal BS that completely echoes what passes for conventional wisdom - the decline in economic inequality "can't be fully credited to Chavez's policies" and instead reflects "a broader egalitarian trend in Latin America." This is the kind of simple minded commentary-passing-as-analysis we would expect from a mainstream US paper like the NYT or Post, not Think Progress.

  • Irish||

    Chile has had more economic growth, a larger decrease in poverty and, I swear I am not making this up, Venezuela's murder rate is TWENTY FIVE TIMES what Chile's is. Why are the presidents of Chile not being lauded as saviors by the left?

  • Cytotoxic||

    Your question at the end is very cute!

  • MJGreen||

    Facts, numbers, statistics, arithmetic are all common sense and fair talking points, so much so that they can be recited without context.

    Unless they disagree with you.

  • Generic Stranger||

    In order to preserve my sanity, I'm going to pretend that comment is very subtle satire instead of screaming lunacy.

  • Killazontherun||

    I'm going to be a broken record about this, but it can't be pointed out enough, these are the people who want your guns.

  • ||

    You keep on being a broken record, because it's true. Little Ches all over the place.

  • John||

    It is totally true. And they want to do it so they can unleash the mob with impunity.

  • Cytotoxic||

    You need one buttin: PrntScr. May their names live forever.

  • MJGreen||

    "The important thing is that Stalin wasn't a Romanov and he meant well, amirite?"

    God bless you, Jeffrey Wendt.

  • John||

    If you guys think this is fun, just imagine the storm of stupidity and yummy tears the night Castro finally gets his ticket to hell.

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    "If you guys think this is fun, just imagine the storm of stupidity and yummy tears the night Castro finally gets his ticket to hell."

    As long as it's a Raoul & Fidel murder/suicide….pass the popcorn.

  • Generic Stranger||

    As long as it's a Raoul & Fidel murder/suicide being hung by meat hooks from lamp posts…pass the popcorn.

    FTFY. Though I'd settle for murder/suicide, I guess.

  • Gladstone||

    More from Justin:

    Not even @nickgillespie's obession with the drug war http://tinyurl.com/afvjbuj can overcome his Fox News mindset:

    If a man can be defined by the enemies he makes, then Chavez was a saint.

    He shut down a tv station that was involved in a coup attempt by the military: imagine if CNN did the same here! Guantanamo!

  • Gladstone||

    So his defense of Chavez's shutting down opposition press is a tu quoque. Nice.

  • John||

    They are so dying to do the same thing here.

  • Gladstone||

    Obama is not a TOP MAN

  • John||

    True. He wasn't the one they were hoping for. But if he ever comes, they will be all over it. They hate Obama because he is not Chavez.

  • Irish||

    Whatever else you can say about Obama, there will always be this in his plus column: He wasn't as much of a fascist as the progressives wanted.

  • ||

    That's not saying much.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The left got more fascism from the Bushpigs than they could stand.

  • John||

  • Gladstone||

    Justin Raimondo‏@JustinRaimondo

    @LucyStag Like most everything and everyone, Chavez was a mix of good and bad. What gets me is that the Usual Suspects hate him for the good

    2 minsJustin Raimondo‏@JustinRaimondo

    @LucyStag Look at all the creeps who are dancing on his grave: that should tell you something.

  • Irish||

    Wait...what good am I hating him for? The mass inflation and tripling of the murder rate since 1998? Well, if you just look on the bright side...

  • Gladstone||

    I imagine the "good" was opposing the US. However Nick wasn't attacking him for that.

  • John||

    As long as you piss off right wingers, it is okay to be a tyrant. God, these people won't just put us in camps, they will gladly march to the camps with us to support the cause. Darkness at Noon is a how to manual for these creeps.

  • Gladstone||

    And this a libertarian!

  • John||

    Who are Justin Raimondo and Lucy Stag?

  • Gladstone||

    Lucy used to work for Reason. Raimondo is the editor of anti-war.com

  • John||

    I know which Lucy it is now. She should still be working for Reason. And Raimondo is a Libertarian or just a peacenik douche?

  • Irish||

    He calls himself a libertarian because it gives him a pseudo-intellectual justification for being fucking stupid.

    Sort of like how modern progressives use John Maynard Keynes.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Kind of like arch conservative Andrew Napalitano calls himself a libertarian.

  • John||

  • Cytotoxic||

    BUSHPIG BUSHPIG

  • General Butt Naked||

    Jesus shrike, you just jumped over the shark that was jumping over the shark you jumped before.

    Have you ever even watched the Judge?

  • Irish||

    NAPALITANO ON FOX NEWS! HE RATFUCKER FOX NEWS BECKERHEAD! BOOOOOOSH!

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The Judge is good until he starts talking about mandatory life sentences for abortion providers and pharmacists who dispense the pill.

    Big libertarian demerit there. It is a hard purity test though - we all know that.

  • ||

    Gee PB, next you'll tell me he wants a life sentence for people convicted of killing newborns! That's a big pluggertarian demerit too, I bet.

  • califernian||

    kind of how Bill Mahr is a libertarian.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Holy hell Raimondo is AW's EDITOR? That's all you need to know about AntiAmerica.com. I await Doherty's and Riggs apologies for linking to that POS site with baited breath.

  • Gladstone||

    Well actually he is "editorial director."

  • ||

    Just for a moment I read that as "editorial dictator".

  • jb4479||

    In the publishing world it's the same thing.

  • ||

    Lucy said that?!? WTF?!?

  • Irish||

    No, it's Raimondo talking to Lucy. I assume Lucy was on the side that isn't pro-Chavez.

  • John||

    Thank God. I was really afraid that was our Lucy and she was saying that. Whew

  • Gladstone||

    Raimondo was replying to her.

  • ||

    OK. That freaked me out for a second there. See why I hate Twitter?

  • Gladstone||

    I'm not used to linking to twitter.

  • General Butt Naked||

    And if he says one mean word to our Lucy, Episiarch will be forced to dogpile his ass.

    Hard.

  • ||

    No, our good friend Raimondo said them. Look carefully, Epi.

  • Raven Nation||

    Lucy has her Twitter feed on her blog. She is definitely critiquing Raimondo.

  • Raven Nation||

    e.g. "But just because you diss US presidents, doesn't mean you're a friend to liberty."

  • Irish||

    Justin just hates the U.S. government. He apologizes for dictators all over the world though. I'm really just waiting for someone worse than Chavez to die. I can't stand Chavez, but as far as autocrats go, he's one of the less terrible. I'm hoping that Mugabe gets hit by a truck so we can hear all about how great he was to stand up to U.S. imperialism.

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    "the Usual Suspects hate him for the good"

    In other words,....it's bad that Chavez beat, and raped Venezuela without mercy, but he did buy it a bus ticket back to its estranged parents...and taught it an important lesson about running away from home, after all...it was too young, and the world is a dangerous place.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Who is this little prick Raimondo? I'd never heard of him until the other day when he was going off on "Rand Paul the lesser."

  • Irish||

    Check out 'Anti-war.com.' You know everything Republicans and Democrats say about Libertarian foreign policy being naive and absurd? People like Justin Raimondo are the reason they believe that. Any time the United States has ever intervened anywhere, it was terrible. Everywhere we've intervened would have been better off if we were never there.

    He's written articles about how terrible NATO intervention in Bosnia was. You know...when there was a genocide going on. 100,000 people died in a war that happened for reasons unrelated to America, and he still blames America. Any genocide, war crime or bad thing that happens in the world is the result of American imperialism according to Raimondo.

  • Gladstone||

    He also questioned the Rwandan genocide. Since that genocide is "proof" that non-interventionism is bad then it can't be true.

  • John||

    No shit? What a crapweasel.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    He also questioned the Rwandan genocide.

    Dude, he's come a hair on a gnat's ass away from "questioning" the Nazi genocide of European Jewry.

    Raimondo is scum.

  • Gladstone||

    http://original.antiwar.com/ju.....-bad-news/
    As Undersecretary of State for African Affairs during the Clinton administration, Rice traces her induction into the Humanitarian Interventionist Brigade to the alleged genocide(emphasis mine) in Rwanda that occurred under Clinton’s watch, and credits the administration’s failure to act as her come-to-Jesus moment

  • Gladstone||

    Dude, he's come a hair on a gnat's ass away from "questioning" the Nazi genocide of European Jewry.
    Link?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Give me a few minutes and I'll dredge it up for you.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Unfortunately, the link to antiwar from this page doesn't work anymore. It seems antiwar redid all their links.

  • ||

    Is this what you were looking for, HM?

  • Gladstone||

  • ||

    Copycat.

  • ||

    The whole point of Raimondo's rambling there seems to be that he thinks the Israeli's got a warning there was going to be an attack. I kept expecting him to get to some real point, but he never did.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    He sounds more like your typical college professor than a libertarian.

  • ||

    Some guy from antiwar.com .

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    According to the Democracy Index (which measures civil liberties, free elections, transparency, etc) Venezuela ranks an abysmal #96 (the US is #17).

    http://graphics.eiu.com/PDF/De.....10_web.pdf

    Scandinavian countries get the top spots.

  • Irish||

    I'm amazed we're even still 17th. The rest of the world must be a flat out police state.

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    The stats were written at gunpoint.

  • benji||

    We still have regular peaceful transitions of power between the two parties and regular elections. IIRC, those two things almost automatically put you in the top fifth.

  • benji||

    Oh, and as bad as it is, our participation rate is still really high compared to new democracies like Estonia, Brazil, etc.

  • Irish||

    Plus we're 1 of only 26 countries classified as 'full democracies.' If you take that into account, we're barely in the top two-thirds of legitimate democracies.

  • benji||

    Heh, one of the questions:

    10. Do opposition parties have a realistic prospect of achieving government?
    1: Yes
    0.5: There is a dominant two-party system in which other political forces never have any
    effective chance of taking part in national government
    0: No

  • Irish||

    That's fucking stupid. You can have totally free elections, but if your elections tend towards two parties you get penalized. They're basically arguing that anything other than a representative parliamentary system isn't democratic enough.

  • benji||

    In some of these indexes you do see a bias towards European-centric political views. I think one of them (I don't believe this one does but I'd have to look at it more) defines public financing for campaigns, public health care, free higher education as good things towards their scores for democracy or liberty or whatever.

    This one does lean towards parliamentary systems, one of the scores is if the legislature is the most powerful political body.

  • benji||

    I think we should make a True Democracy Index where we weight the % of the vote received by the winner greater than all this other debatable stuff. What if 98% of the population does actually support one candidate, it just unfairly penalizes that country when that leader chosen actually is an expression of the people.

    And you can't take the minorities word for it when they complain, as Tony explained a few weeks ago it's tyranny if you allow a minority to set the rules. All these countries that aren't having "fair and free" elections are doing is placing safeguards to prevent tyranny and ensure that the actual majority wins elections at their real level of support among the populace.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I bet Chavez scores higher on the Buttplug Libertarian Freedom Index than Ron Paul.

    What was your score again, shrike? 94?

  • Gladstone||

    Nice to see that Rockwell and Raimondo did not disappoint. Going to outright apologism for Chavez as supposed to opposing US support to his opponents.

  • Killazontherun||

    The point of being an Ancap is the hatred of all governments, and the futility of believing they can be controlled by democracy or design. Everyone of them has broken their chains at some point shortly after being duly constituted. I learned that from you, Lew!

    So, why do you fawn over a man who enriched himself and aggrandized himself doing just that?

  • Gladstone||

    I used to be a big Rockwellian and Raimondoite. Ancap contributed mightily to my political views.

    Problems is I realized their writing was very shrill and filled with tons of tu quoque arguments. Rockwell in particular is way too much into whatever conspiracy theory or strange fringe ideas that the Governing classes did not like. I mean if the governing classes did not like something it must be true!

    Also this knee-jerk anti-Americanism is especially problematically. First it lead to blatant corporate apologism. Any corporation that is being held up as a reason for more regulation and statism can't be all that bad.

    Also I'm a Canadian and I know full well that the Anti-American Canadians are not particularily libertarian, even the draft dodgers. Also they love TEAM BLUE so they are not really all that opposed to the US government or to its wars either. In fact a lot of them hate America for being too libertarian! The fact that according to Raimondo and Rockwell's own logic a Canadian libertarian would have to be a Communist showed me how flawed such an attitude is.

  • Gladstone||

    Also I find it hilarious that the Rockwellians hate Lincoln and love "revisionist" history when the most successful revisionist history of the past few decades is the notion that the Civil War and Reconstruction were just as wonderful as the contemporary Republicans though they were!

  • John||

    They spend so much effort defending the worst Americans in history, slave owning southerners.

  • Cytotoxic||

    I thought those Rockwell posts were satire. At first.

  • Gladstone||

    Justin also has also retweeted this about Chavez's supposed $1 Billion fund:

    when the world's superpower is trying to overthrow you, you need a big emergency fund. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeHzc1h8k7o

  • Cytotoxic||

    Again, thanks for bringing this dreck to light. You must be a masochist.

  • califernian||

    when the world's superpower is trying to overthrow you, you need a big emergency fund.

    Ironically this statement applies to all freedom-lovers who fear the US. Most of them are US citizens of course.

    My #1 goal in life to amass enough wealth offshore for an escape plan should things here turn into Venezuela 2.0

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The CIA did participate from afar in the 2002 coup attempt of Chavez.

    And non-interventionist should not approve of that. This Justin guy has a speckle of truth on that part.

  • ||

    A speckle in a sea of shit.

  • Cytotoxic||

    CITATION NEEDED

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12.....ion;=&_r=0

    The key word is "afar". The CIA met with the coup leaders and gave their tacit approval.

  • John||

    So telling them that the US would not intervene to save Chavez's sorry ass is just like actually leading the coupe.

    God you are fucking moron. A dishonest fucking moron.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    "Tacit" is about the full opposite of "leading" you idiot wingneck.

  • Cytotoxic||

    And has no relationship with 'participating' you retard.

    This is what I thought the answer was going to be. CIA-led is peacenik speak for 'America's fault because some people met with each other'.

  • Irish||

    The CIA did participate from afar in the 2002 coup attempt of Chavez.

    Is saying 'we will not intervene' the same thing as participating in a coup? In fact, saying we will not intervene is EXACTLY what a non-interventionist like Raimondo should want us to do.

    Your second post contradicts your first.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Senior members of the Bush administration met several times in recent months with leaders of a coalition that ousted the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chávez, for two days last weekend, and agreed with them that he should be removed from office, administration officials said today.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04.....eader.html

  • John||

    So what? They met and said "go for it if you can". That is not 'leading' or 'causing the coupe. All the did was tell people who wanted to do it anyway, that they wouldn't intervene and stop them.

    Stop lying dipshit.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Fuck you, liar. I never said "leading". You did.

    I said participated in - as in go ahead we like your plan after meeting with your coup team.

  • John||

    And we never participated in it either.

  • Irish||

    It's pretty telling that you have to cherry pick quotes. Why didn't you use this one instead?

    ''We were not discouraging people,'' the official said. ''We were sending informal, subtle signals that we don't like this guy. We didn't say, 'No, don't you dare,' and we weren't advocates saying, 'Here's some arms; we'll help you overthrow this guy.' We were not doing that.''

    If I said 'I would like someone to overthrow Hugo Chavez' and then someone did, I would have had about the same amount of involvement in that coup as the State Department did.

  • Irish||

    And how the fuck is that participating in a coup? Participating has a very clear meaning, as in 'I was involved in this.' It makes people think we gave them guns or we had troops involved or provided training. Saying 'Do it if you can' is not the same as participating in a coup, since the rebellion would have happened no matter what we did.

  • juris imprudent||

    The plug never worries about consistency.

  • ||

    I saw that. I can't read his twitter feed anymore. Raimondo is an evil man.

  • Gladstone||

    No you are evil for supporting the American imperialist war machine by not liking Chavez!

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    He needs to spend a weekend with Dondero in the Poconos.

  • juris imprudent||

    [shudders] at the thought of their love-child.

  • John||

    So, I put two million in cash in a
    Los Angeles bank under the name of
    Mr and Mrs Tom Collins. This was
    strictly my shakedown and kidnapping
    money.

    ACE (V.O.)
    And, since I'd either be in jail or
    locked in a closet when I needed the
    money the most...

    ...I gave Ginger the only key to the
    cash that could get me back alive.

    That about describes it.

  • John||

    The billion dollars I mean.

  • sloopyinca||

    Close. I'd go with:

    Henry Hill: [voice over] But now the guy's gotta come up with Paulie's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me.

  • ||

    How can you take anything seriously from a guy who'se last name is "Serrano" ?

  • sloopyinca||

    Serrano, no. Cerrano, yes!

  • Killazontherun||

    Reminds me, Roxanne is a really good, but much forgotten comedy from the 80's. Pair it with The Princes Bride on date night she'll think you are sweeter than cotton candy and just eat you up.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Reminds me, Roxanne is a really good

    So, Serrano - Cerrano - Cyrano - Roxanne. Nice!

  • Ted S.||

    She doesn't have to put on the red light either.

  • Tman||

  • Atlas Slugged||

    Cerrano no hit curveball. Fuck you Jobu.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    OT - Customers of MF Global to receive all their funds back.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....18587.html

  • John||

    Under the deal, MF's parent entity will subordinate $275 million of its $1.887 billion claim against MF Global's finance unit below JPMorgan's $1.2 billion claim against the estate.

    So Morgan is eating the money Corzine stole. Lovely.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Corzine was in incompetent CEO but didn't steal a dime, idiot.

    Oh, and too bad the ratfucking of that slimy Menendez fell apart. I guess the voters will now have to decide - not some bribing liar.

  • John||

    He took his clients money and without their permission invested it in Greek and Euro bonds. He is a thief and if he were not an Obama crony, he would be in prison right now. And the money hasn't been made good. They just stuck Morgan with the bill so there wouldn't be any little people out of money creating political pressure to send Corzine to prison.

    Sorry Shreiky. It hasn't fallen apart at all. WAPO fucked up and had the wrong hooker.

    http://dailycaller.com/2013/03.....reporting/

    Suck it dumb ass.

  • juris imprudent||

    Corzine fucked over his clients way worse than Milken. Who went to prison and who went scot-free?

  • ||

    Now if we're really lucky, joe will down a bottle of sleeping pills in grief.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Alas, I fear he cannot reach them.

  • ||

    He has a stepladder, and he can usualy manage to use it to reach the medicine cabinet except when he's really, really drunk. Which is pretty much always now that his wife left him, but still.

  • John||

    Lets hope his wife didn't take the step ladder when she left.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I heard she shortened one of the legs.
    Maybe joe toppled over.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I'm sure he's somewhere on kos giving it his all

  • juris imprudent||

    Grief masturbating til he's dry.

  • Mr Whipple||

    O/T

    Evil...Fucking...Bitch

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl0MS7Z-Sjc

    IDK how many times I've been accused of "not having any empathy" for stating my libertarian views, and maybe it's true to a degree. But it takes a special kind of nasty to say something like this to a rape victim.

  • Hyperion||

    Does that shit have any chance of passing? I haven't had much chance to follow it. I sure as hell hope not. They legalize pot, and then pull this bullshit?

  • Mr Whipple||

    The way i hear it is, it will probably pass, and in 2 or 3 years it will be struck down by the courts. So, it's all just a political theater so the politicians can say that the "did something".

  • Hyperion||

    I have thought of CO as more Libertarian than a lot of other states. I mean, so much of it is rural. Well, probably wishful thinking. Maybe it suffers from the same disease as Maryland, most of the state is conservative or even Libertarian leaning, but most of the population is in inner city blue zones, Baltimore, Denver.

  • Cytotoxic||

    WTF is with urban areas and progressivism?

  • Hyperion||

    It's hard to really figure out. Of course lots of folks in those areas are dependent upon government assistance. that part is easy to figure out.

    I work in downtown Baltimore and I see this phenomenon every day, highly paid professional folks who vote blue with the same sureness that they breathe air, but I have yet to figure out the exact cause. But it definitely exists.

  • Irish||

    I've seen studies claiming people in cities and people who vote Democrat are less 'happy' than those who aren't in cities and don't vote Democrat. Obviously social science studies like that need to be taken with a massive heaping of salt, since I have no idea how you go about quantifying 'happiness,' but I honestly believe that people who are very hardcore Democrats and many people who live in cities have something in common which tends them towards progressivism.

    There seems to be a tendency for both people in cities and progressives to think that if government isn't forcing people to be together, then they won't BE together. If the government doesn't make me give money to that homeless guy, then I won't do it. If government doesn't do the charity work, then it won't get done. I think progressives are often very lonely, sad people who honestly cannot comprehend coming together with others to get something don, so they feel government has to do it.

    I think people in cities often feel separated from those around them and don't feel a sense of community. So they try to get government to replace that community. It's kind of sad, and if they weren't so busy fucking everything up, I might pity them.

  • Hyperion||

    I think people in cities often feel separated from those around them and don't feel a sense of community. So they try to get government to replace that community. It's kind of sad, and if they weren't so busy fucking everything up, I might pity them.

    I still don't get it. I've lived in both very rural areas and large cities. It has had zero effect on my political views. People in cities get on my nerves a lot more because there are more of them and they are closer. But that's about it.

    Maybe it takes someone who has lived their entire life in the city or the country for that effect to show up.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    WTF is with urban areas and progressivism?

    There is little need for self-reliance in a highly-urbanized area. Your food is shipped in from somewhere else, your home is most likely an apartment rented from someone else, or a condominium. Your transportation is public mass transit.

    Progressivism is the mindset of an urban dweller writ large.

  • Hyperion||

    Progressivism is the mindset of an urban dweller writ large.

    HM, read my comment above. I don't get this at all. Living in the country made me more Libertarian. Living in the city has made me even more Libertarian. I just don't see how it changes anyones political views.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    . I just don't see how it changes anyones political views.

    You and I are different from the other people.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I just don't see how it changes anyones political views.

    Maybe people that are inclined to live in cities are more progressive to start. You say that living in the country has made you more libertarian, well, maybe you'd have never moved to the country had you been of a fascist liberal bent.

  • Hyperion||

    Hey GBN, it wouldn't have mattered what I thought, my parents moved all over the US and I had no choice. We were everywhere from major metro areas to very rural. Even since I have been an adult on my own, I have lived about 50/50 city/country. It has had no effect at all on my political views, none. That's why I think it must only be relevant to those who have lived their entire life in only one of those conditions.

    When I said that it made me more libertarian living the country, I didn't mean that literally. I just got more Libertarian regardless of where I lived.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I didn't mean that the choice pf city/country had any effect on political persuasion, but that people that are statist like cities so they move there creating a government heavy region. Conversely, people that are more libertarian, may favor a region with more space and solitude. Or, someone that is extremely liberal and living in a small town may yearn to move to the city where they can be with their own kind.

    Me? I've lived in the country for half my life and the city for the other half, I can't wait to get back to the country. City life doesn't mesh well with my personality.

  • Hyperion||

    Me? I've lived in the country for half my life and the city for the other half, I can't wait to get back to the country. City life doesn't mesh well with my personality

    I'm thinking the same myself. Or at least to a smaller city in a more... not sure how to say it, but probably the south is where I am headed.

  • mgd||

    This. It's a lack of self-reliance. That can occur in anyone, either in urban or rural areas...but it has a higher incidence in urban areas. Based entirely on anecdotal evidence, having been raised in the country but having spent most of life in cities.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Colorado, form what I've heard, has become california-ized in the past 20 years.

    That's basically when liberal fucktards can't stand the 'utopias' they've created in places like NY, L.A., Detroit, Baltimore, NJ, etc, etc and move to nice rural places and proceed to turn it into another wasteland of suck. I've heard similar stories from people in rural eastern PA of interlopers from philly and NY.

    I used to have some tolerance for liberals, but the older I get that I think liberalism is a fucking disease and it's spreading.

  • Hyperion||

    Well, this, there's plenty of countryside in Cali for them to move to and enjoy, it's just that they aren't allowed in it, because it might disturb a spotted owl or some minor species of bait fish. They are fucking retarded, bro, what do we do with them since it's still illegal to shoot them?

  • Coeus||

    The locust effect.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Are you implying that a political entity can have its zeitgeist changed in a matter of years by natives of other political entities flooding over its borders?

  • General Butt Naked||

    I'm not implying; rarely do I feel the need to imply.

    But, taking what I say at face value doesn't mean that I think people's movement should be stifled by the government.

  • Hyperion||

    But, taking what I say at face value doesn't mean that I think people's movement should be stifled by the government.

    Yep, this, and I sure as hell hope that my comments were not interpreted by anyone, to mean that. Restricting the movement of people is one of the most oppressive tyrannies of government.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Glebae Adscripti.

    Evil.

  • jb4479||

    Colorado's problem stems from the fact that a lot of Californians (of the progressive persuausion) have relocated there after various busts in Silicon Valley, also the I-70 corridor where the ski areas such as Aspen are tend to very liberal. It's only when toward the south and west that you find more connservative/libertarian folks.

    Here in Wyoming we try to confine them to the Northwest around Jackson, and some of the towns north of there. It works pretty well since Idaho hems them in the west and the mountains to the north east and south.

  • General Butt Naked||

    I had to fucking stop that, or my computer would likely succumb to gun violence.

    I'm in college right now, and with my cynical, older eyes I see people like that Senator in my professors and administrators every day. They have an empathetic tone of voice, a concerned fucking look on their face, and could give a fuck if real people die for their pet causes. It's something you learn to spot, and I'm sure people living under the tyranny of the proletariat learn to spot as well.

  • Irish||

    I had to stop it too. The instant she started talking, you can tell what sort of person she is. I've met progressives and liberals like her before, and they sicken me. She immediately starts off with 'That story was really sad' but you can tell she's just saying that because she's expected to care. She didn't give a flat fuck about that girl.

  • Hyperion||

    Soon as I walked in the door today, after my commute home from work, my wife asked me 'Did you hear that Chavez died?'. That's all they were talking about on Globo TV.

    When I told her that lots of people here really like him, she thought I was being sarcastic. I had to insist a couple of times before she would believe me.

    Then she was telling me that people in Venezuela were saying that the CIA gave him cancer. Old news, honey, old news...

  • Gladstone||

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blo...../5509.html

    Just because the Bush administration and the neocons hate your guts, and tried to overthrow you in a military coup (to the deafening silence of the US media), and fund and direct your opponents in a recall, doesn't mean you are a good guy. But does it mean we ought not to accept, uncritically, the official line on Hugo Chavez?

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    The media was fawning all over the Bushpigs back then. It was sickening. Even the NY Times covered them on WMD lies and aluminum tubes lies.

  • Hyperion||

    Wow, then they haven't changed at all, have they?

    We're you fawning over Bushpigs, too?

  • The Sherriff of Fistingham™||

    LOL +1

  • Hyperion||

    Looking upthread, I am surprised that people are surprised, that Chavez is being drooled over by lefties here.

    For Christs sake people, we could elect Hillary in 2016, one of the most vile and evil pieces of human trash that has ever walked this planet. Chavez is like the fucking Easter Bunny compared to Hillary.

  • Cytotoxic||

    Pretty sure Chavez is a hell of a lot worse than Hillary.

  • Hyperion||

    You're wrong, but everyone has their own opinion. Some people are just pure fucking evil, and Hillary is one of them.

  • Cytotoxic||

    I'd voice a counter-argument but you'll accuse me of being a neocon America-first blargle barlgle.

  • Hyperion||

    I'm going to accuse you of being a a neocon American-first blargle bargle(whatever the fuck that is), anyway, so why not just go for it? (:

  • Cytotoxic||

    Whenever I think about Chavez's death, Adele's 'SkyFall' plays in my head. Anybody having this happen to them?

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    I hate to sound like one of those slope-headed nativist conservative types, but who is this Jose Serrano guy, what county is he from, and how did he come to be a US congressman?

  • benji||

    He's from the United States and he's represented parts of the Bronx for 20 years I believe.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    He's an excellent argument against statehood for Puerto Rico and for forced secession of the Bronx.

  • Hyperion||

    What about just moving the Bronx to Puerto Rico, and then it would already be seceded? Oh wait, be careful that all those folks from the Bronx don't move to one side of the island...

  • JWatts||

    Or we could just build a big wall around it.

    NYC

  • ant1sthenes||

    "Hugo Chavez was a leader that understood the needs of the poor. He was committed to empowering the powerless"

    What an unfortunate typo! He meant to say that Chavez understood the need for the poor. Because they're willing to empower the powerless, and by powerless, he mean Chavez himself before seizing power by gulling the masses.

  • Hyperion||

    Chavez managed to make Venezuela the country with the most violent crime in South America, by a long shot, and that is quite the accomplishment. Yep, he really loved the poor, the ones that managed to stay alive in that hell hole.

  • MJGreen||

  • Cytotoxic||

    I hope NOBODY sees that.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Maybe I'm being dense, but this is a sort of 'no soap, radio' moment for me here. What the hell is so (un)funny?

  • Hyperion||

    I didn't getz it? Maybe I'm not drunk enough yet... working on that(drink)

  • General Butt Naked||

    Is it like a star trek thing, or something? Or maybe an inside joke, or a bad joke, or I'm stoopid...

    I'm pretty buzzed and it didn't help.

  • benji||

    It's a Firefly reference.

  • General Butt Naked||

    You shut your whore mouth, Mal would never get mixed up in some lame shit like this!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    HES OUR JEDI MASTER

  • General Butt Naked||

    What? It has a semi-quote from star wars, so what? I feel like I'm missing something here.

    Okay, let me tel you what I've got so far...

    1 A guy named popehat has a facebook account

    2 Chavez says something from star wars

    3 ?

    4 Hilarity and a link to Reason

    I have to be missing something, HAVE TO. Why make the post, why link it here, what is the deeper context/joke that I'm missing?

    This is how I feel about this thing right now.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    You're overthinking this.
    CHAVEZ IS OBI WAN

  • General Butt Naked||

    But that's not even the beginning of a joke. Why post it? Why did MJGreen spend time linking it here? How could any person say that that is 'awesome'?

    Imagine I post a picture of Chavez and put under his name "I'll be back", would that be worth your time to copy, paste, and comment upon, not to mention, someone to link to Reason?

    This bullshit never would have happened when Postrel was running the place.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Chavez is the Obi Wan of leftists.
    "i'll be back" makes no sense for a dead guy.

  • General Butt Naked||

    "I'll be back" is exactly what a dead commie should say.

    As in, "I'm not dead, really. There's still some industry to nationalize."

  • ||

    It's just Patrick from Popehat trolling gullible Facebook people. People are friending him seriously, thinking the page is pro-Chavez. One of the people even unironically called Chavez "dear leader". I'm waiting to see what "Chavez" does with this.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    i'm new to popehat. what is popehat?

  • Hyperion||

    WTF? Dude, you never saw that fucking hat... that ... the pope dude wears? Man, the hat is all the shit! You think people all over the world would revere some average dude in a funny costume, if he he didn't have the POPE HAT! The POPE HAT RULES, ALL HAIL THE POPE HAT!

    Gawd, we really are a primitive bunch of monkeys still, aren't we?

  • ||

    Popehat is a site run by a couple of guys who post, well, on a whole host of different topics. Three of them are libertarian, or at least lean that way. The most prolific writer, Ken, is a defense attorney and former federal prosecutor, and often writes about 1st Amendment issues, as well as other lawyer and civil rights stuff, his kids, and other random things. I found the site through the comments threads here, in fact.

    http://www.popehat.com/

  • General Butt Naked||

    Jesus, much ado about nothing, I say. Shit, trolling facebook is soooo 2009.

  • ||

    2013 is the new 2009.

  • BigT||

    Oliver Stone, major a-hole:

    ''I mourn a great hero to the majority of his people and those who struggle throughout the world for a place," says Stone in a statement to THR. "Hated by the entrenched classes, Hugo Chavez will live forever in history."

  • Sevo||

    "Hated by the entrenched classes, Hugo Chavez will live forever in history."
    Or at least until next week, or someone writes a book about what really went on.
    Sleazy asshole doesn't have a mug that'll sell on a T shirt.

  • I GOT HUNG UP SILLY||

    Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez was living in the western World & in the America's where there is very little room for misjudging who the World's good guys are from the International bad guys.

  • I GOT HUNG UP SILLY||

    Once Venezuela began to Nationalize Oil etc.. it was only a matter of time until a new leader would be brought into power !

  • Gladstone||

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blo.....33317.html

    Raimondo retweeted this:

    Today we confirmed the president reserves the right to kill us with drones on US soil, but by all means, let's sneer at Venezuela

    Can't I oppose both?

  • Hyperion||

    Well, to be honest, Obama is a LOT scarier than Chavez, because... you know, Chavez is dead, and he didn't have drones when he was alive. Now Zombie Chavez... Nah, that's not too scary either.

  • ||

    I'd just like the opportunity to make the following statement about the deceased:

    Burn in hell, motherfucker!

  • Hyperion||

    Go over to HuffPo and post that. Delicious proglodyte tears, you know, I am running out of them to polish my monocle with.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I am ecstatic about today's Champions League results.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Cancer 1, Chavez 0

    Good match...

    Thought it was going into overtime for a minute there, but Cancer really hustled out there in the last quarter to seal up the win.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    imposter! there are no quarters in football (soccer)!

  • Gladstone||

    Well doesn't that mean Hitler is a saint according to Raimondo? Stalin, FDR, Churchill, Mohammed Pavlavi, Juan Peron, Tito, Chiang Kai-Shek, Mao, Metaxas, Vargas, etc. were against him?

  • Gladstone||

    Oh wait how could I forget the fact that the neocons and the Zionists hated him too.

  • Ruckus||

    I've been a lurker around here for a while, but tried to refrain from diving into the comments because H&R already zaps enough of my productivity without me actively engaging in a discussion. Almost jumped in with the Canadian "hate speech" shit last week, but managed to cool off enough to get back to work.

    But this fawning over Chavez is another fucking level to me. The only thing positive any human being should say about this man is at least he didn't commit genocide like all the legendary "leaders of the people" before him. (He just needed another term!) He turned a country into the murder capital of the world, raped the land of wealth/resources, and gave the crumbs and scraps to the citizens.

    I really shouldn't be surprised. I mean this video has 2.6 million views.

  • Hyperion||

    He turned a country into the murder capital of the world

    Yep, and welcome to H&R.

    I just commented on up the thread about how Comrade Hugey turned Venezuela into the most violent country in Latin America by a very wide margin. Nice accomplishment.

  • ||

    Ha, I keep seeing people post that on FB, I keep ignoring it. Welcome to posting. Stock up on blood pressure medication.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    or vodka

  • Hyperion||

    Yes, if you are already pissed off about the goings on in our benevolent government, then, well, hard drugs, or liquor, take your pick.

  • ||

    Only for the P.M. Links and later. A.M. Links stick with a liqueur that'll blend in nicely with coffee.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    I don't recognize AM links. How do you people get up before 10?

  • Hyperion||

    I get up at either 8 or 9, on weekdays, depending on whether I am driving into the city to work in my office there, or working at home. On the weekends I NEVER get up before 10, unless the wife gets me up before then (:

  • Guy Laguy||

    what's this 'work'? you're not all independently wealthy?
    how else do you pay your domestic staff? I mean top hat buffers and monocle cleaners.

  • Hyperion||

    what's this 'work'? you're not all independently wealthy?
    how else do you pay your domestic staff? I mean top hat buffers and monocle cleaners.

    Look, the Kochtopus only provides the child labor for polishing our monocles, IF we get off our arses and go to work for them. Geez, what you think we are, government employees or something?

  • ||

    Eh, I'm up between 6-7 PST, at work by 8. AM links are winding down by then but not quite dead.

  • ||

    My first class of the day always starts at either 8:30 or 9:00 am.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Thing is about that video is that, sure, people say that a more even distribution is 'ideal', but a majority don't say that men with guns should take what the top earners have by force and distribute it...

    yet.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    It's funny that BO's "spreading the wealth around" has resulted in the richest counties in America being clustered in SW Maryland and NE Virginia.

  • General Butt Naked||

    We have to pay our nomenklatura well or society will cease and we might as well be in Somalia. And roads, you drive on roads.

  • Hyperion||

    Dude, if you want to be a proper statist, you need to get da Bridgez in there. Roadz and bridgez.

  • General Butt Naked||

    Police, firefighters and school teachers...

    America's heroes.

  • Ruckus||

    I got it from FB as well. I have a few lib friends that spam shit like that once in a while. Most of them are reasonable, though I think a few might put on the brownshirts at a drop of a hat.

    No mention of standard of living or wealth generation over the last 100,50, hell even 20 years. No, There is just one fucking pile of money that we must all share, and the greedy capitalists have it all. Throw in some depressing music and some animations and instant propaganda.

  • ||

    That vile video made me want to vomit. Couldn't watch the whole thing.

    Fucking disgusting envious pigs!

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    You know who else died today?

  • Hyperion||

    Elvis?

  • Mr Whipple||

    No way. I just saw Elvis pumping gas into his Caddy this morning in Lancaster County, PA. He's living with a Mennonite sect.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Elvis wouldn't last a day as a menno.

  • Hyperion||

    He's not part of that Amish mafia I keep hearing about, is he?

  • Mr Whipple||

    Hmmm, you know who else was big with the Mafia?

  • Hyperion||

    This guy?

    Russel Bufalino

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Hyperion||

    Wow, my neighbors in Indiana(I don't live there now, just still own the property) are Mennonite. Nicest people, really, great neighbors.

    They have money, a lot. He owns a construction company. She's the bonnet wearing type, he's actually pretty wild. After I got to know him a bit, he started telling me about all the women and drinking on his trips out of state for business.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    Q. What happens when you take one Mennonite fishing?
    A. He drinks all your beer.
    Q. What happens when you take two Mennonites fishing?
    A. They don't drink any of your beer.
    Q. How many Mennonites do you take on a fishing trip?
    A. At least two so they won't drink all your beer.

  • Hyperion||

    lol

  • ||

    Bullshit!

    Elvis is test flying UFOs in area 51 with Jim Morrison.

  • Hyperion||

    Do they have to take a pee test before flying those?

  • ||

    Elvis and Jim?

    Are you kidding?

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

  • Hyperion||

    What a poor display of Bourdains talents. Dude can drink and whore with the best of em.

  • Archduke Pantsfan||

    not his best.
    have you seen "The Layover" episode in Amsterdam?
    He spent the whole episode stating how he never indulged in the pot.
    But you know he did, right?

  • Hyperion||

    Not sure if I have seen that one, or not...

    Fuck, man, that guy will do any drug he gets his hands on. I remember the one where he was in Brazil, NE, I think it was Belem, he was so wasted the entire time on everything from script pain killers to some type of indigenous hallucinogen that one of the primitive tribes there use. He had all sorts of excuses from jet lag, to back pain, to fuck it, I'm gonna get wasted cause it's part of my job, lol.

  • ||

    Can we get Kane to do a powerbomb on Chavez' corpse?

  • Cyto||

    I headed over to HuffPo to see what they make of it. On the first page of comments 3 separate people opined that he was poisoned by the CIA with Polonium. It didn't take a dozen comments before someone put forward the notion that it was a hit ordered by Bush. One person who disagreed did so because "Bush isn't that subtle".

    To their credit, two folks did take the time to disagree with this notion. Still, wow. The crazy is strong over there.

  • Hyperion||

    And the left accuses the right of being crazy tin foil hat wearers. I guess when the hat is on the other head...

  • General Butt Naked||

    But... But their conspiracies are true!

  • Hyperion||

    Yeah, and Obama is a swell guy who really cares about people.

  • Sevo||

    'Yeah, and Obama is a swell guy who really cares Obama.'

    Needed some fixing.

  • XM||

    There were a few thousand people who created some "We support Dorner" facebook page.

    Honestly, if Hugo Chavez ran against Mitt Romney, he would only NARROWLY lost. The La Raza types of the Latino voting bloc would have come out in force.

  • Hyperion||

    Lost? He would have won, IMHO.

  • ||

    Wow. Just... wow. I know somebody already mentioned DU in this thread, but I'll mention it again. They have gone FULL RETARD. The Chavez hagiographies are just amazing. DU actually has some good common sense posts in the gun forum but other than that...

    These people are allowed to vote? And breathe air in the US? That's just scary.

  • Hyperion||

    Ducks Unlimited?

  • Cyto||

    HuffPo Obit (unaltered), runs with slideshow memorial:


    Hugo Chavez was a man of many talents: he played ball, sang songs, pulled out pistols, and got down and groovy - and that is precisely how we'll remember the Venezuelan leader.

    Since rising to power nearly two decades ago, Chavez always liked the spotlight. In 2006, he famously called former U.S. President George W. Bush the devil during a speech at the U.N. General Assembly and the last time rumors were spreading about his health, he invited a group of reporters to play baseball.
  • Guy Laguy||

    Hugo Chavez was opposed to the privatisation of his countries natural resources and hugely helped those in poverty and vulnerable people. Since he was elected in 1999, unemployment has halved, GDP per capita more than doubled, infant mortality reduced from 20/1,000 to 13/1,000 and extreme poverty has fallen by two thirds. Not many governments, if any, have achieved so much in so little time. RIP Chavez.

  • XM||

    He "hugely" helped the poor by forcibly redistributing the wealth among the poor. Murder rates, inflation, and food shortage have skyrocketed under his watch.

    If you're willing to trade in freedom for a third world existence made a bit tolerable because of government handouts, I guess Venezuela is aight for you.

  • Hyperion||

    My Gawd, I just came back from HuffPo, whew. It was like time travel or something.

    Is it just me, or is it a fact that the people who post the absolutely most brain dead comments of all, over there, always follow that comment up by F&F someone who agrees with them? A bunch of psychopathic adolescents over there, I tell you.

  • Hyperion||

    This one is gold:

    I agree. I give Venezuela no more than a year before it is torn apart like Syria, buy the US economic hit-men. They tried before but Chavez was smarted than them and they failed miserably and Venezuela was able to prosper. Now that Chavez is gone I feel sorry for the country and its people

  • Guy Laguy||

    Hugo Chavez was a symbol of hope for the poor and for victims of imperialism throughout the world. He will be mourned by countless millions throughout Latin America and elsewhere in the world tonight and for a long time to come. No doubt his death will bring about rejoicing among Latin America's corrupt, privileged elite and in the halls of power of oppressor states such as the United States and Israel. It is a sure bet that those same powers will now try their best to regain control of Venezuela and its vast oil reserves. If that happens, the great majority of Venezuelans for whom Chavez brought about a better life will find themselves forced to relive the nightmare of past decades when they had nothing. Venezuela's poor and the political movement created by Hugo Chavez cannot let their guard down. It is not only their country and their future on the line but that of the oppressed throughout the world. Unidos, venceremos!

  • sasob||

    No doubt his death will bring about rejoicing among Latin America's corrupt, privileged elite

    Chavez was one of Latin America's corrupt, privileged elite. Idiot.

  • XM||

    But he lifted some people "out of poverty" by spreading the wealth around. He had to seize it from other people, but you know, they were rich.

  • grey||

    And look at the prosperity he created?

    "Symbol" is all that he was, like Obama, his policies and actions were that of a liberty suppressing regime.

  • Sevo||

    'No doubt his death will bring about rejoicing among those not brain-dead'

    Fixed

  • Stephdumas||

    I spotted this comment written by pancho49 on CNN; I quoted an exterpt:

    "5. The opportunities you missed. When you took office, the price of oil was $9.30, and in 2008 it reached $126.33. There was so much good you could have done with that money! And yet you decided to throw it away on corruption and buying elections and weapons. If you had used these resources well, 10.7% of Venezuelans would not be in extreme poverty.

    6. Your attacks on private property and entrepreneurship. You nationalized hundreds of private companies, and pushed hundreds more towards bankruptcy. Not because you were a communist or a socialist, but simply because you wanted no one left with any power to oppose you. If everyone was a public employee, you could force them to attend your political rallies, and the opposition would not get any funding."

  • hotsy totsy||

    Have you ever been to Venezuela, Guy? I thought not.

  • Undead Dodo||

    HuffPo comment:

    "Those on the right here seem to have hated Chavez a great deal which is really no surprise as they seem to pretty much hate the leader of every country on the planet including their own too of course. It'd be interesting to see a list of leaders that they actually like, if any."

    I don't want to see that list. In fact, I'm suspicious of anyone who claims to "like" a leader. I'd be much more comfortable with "I'm generally not irritated by the bitch I helped vote into office."

    Hi, everyone. Former lurker.

  • benji||

    I guess I sorta like George Washington because he willingly stepped down when he was basically a god among men politically at the time.

    And one time held an opponents wife's hand in a jar of acid.

    At a party.

  • Undead Dodo||

    That made me click the Like button on GW's Facebook page.

  • JD the elder||

    "They don't like any leaders of any country" shows that this person is starting out with a mindset that's going to lead to this conclusion. See, I love "leaders". But the people in office are not "leaders", they're "politicians". At best they're faithful servants of the people, and at worst they're bloodthirsty tyrants, but they're not "leaders".

  • hotsy totsy||

    And I'll be that commentator liked George Bush, Dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas because he was such a good citizen.

  • Kent||

    "Let's be clear: Most champions of poor people need not arrest political dissidents, create an unaccountable prison system, and otherwise scoff at limits on power."

    Sounds like the US, minus the foreign invasions and drone attacks.

  • ZinxMinx||

    Sounds like a pretty solid plan to me man, I like it.

    www.EliteProxy.da.bz

  • cw||

    I just watched Team America: World Police last night. Perfectly captures that retard Sean Penn. And seeing his face next to Chavez is of course unsurprising.

  • RPR2||

    the good news is noone wants a t-shirt with a fat guy's face on it.

  • Alex the wolf||

    His critizism of USA was not random, it was because he saw it as a symbol of capitalism and free enterprise which he despised so much.

    He left a terrible legacy of poverty and violence.

    Just one example that I find interesting: it is forbidden in Venezuela to talk about the exchange rate of the dollar, so the media refers to it as green letuce.

  • Nicole260||

    just before I saw the draft saying $7940, I didn't believe that...my... sister woz like actually earning money part-time from there pretty old laptop.. there great aunt has done this less than 22 months and a short time ago repayed the debts on their house and purchased a gorgeous Lotus Esprit. read more at, jump15.com

  • Little55||

    Brayden. you think Vincent`s posting is impressive, on wednesday I bought a great Infiniti after making $4481 this - four weeks past and more than 10-k lass month. this is really the most-comfortable job Ive had. I started this 6 months ago and right away started making a nice minimum $84, per hour. I follow the details on this straightforward website, http://www.wow92.com

  • DenverJay||

    What a great two weeks for liberty! First the sequester goes into effect and the sky does not fall, then Hugo Chavez dies! Viva la liberte!

  • lucasw908||

    Lauren. although Johnny`s comment is neat... last monday I got a gorgeous Lancia after having made $8137 this-past/month an would you believe $10 thousand this past-month. this is certainly the most financially rewarding I've ever done. I started this seven months/ago and practically straight away made more than $75, per hour. I use this web-site,
    http://qr.net/ka6n

  • ||

    She has been without work for ten months but last month her check was $20263 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more here http://tiny.cc/5s93sw

  • Stephdumas||

    I already mentionned it elsewhere, but here a Downfall parody clip about Chavez https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-qkPE4VwgQ

  • grey||

    If you are a tyrant, all you need to do to find sympathy in the United States is: Denigrate the United States. Then you have socialist/liberal friends. You don't need a playbook, it's that easy.

    I know many Americans are caught up in red team/blue team fiasco, but seriously, do people have ethics any more, simple ethics? Can they not look at the laws of a country, the power of the State, the freedoms (or lack thereof of individuals), the poverty, limited freedoms to associate, the State sponsored persecution, and decide for themselves what they think of a foreign regime?

    I'm not saying we should have intervened in Venezuela (we should not); but nobody (that would be nobody that believes ALL individuals are entitled to the same liberty) should have given words of support or condolence for the tyrant.

    The only conclusion I can make is the socialist/liberals that supported the Chavez government do not support the simple ethics of liberty.

  • abella||

    my best friend's step-aunt makes $87 every hour on the computer. She has been laid off for 9 months but last month her check was $12850 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this web site and go to home tab....
    http://googlejobs.co.uk.qr.net/ka8z

  • ygsrf||

    Thank you for your New post on that site.which is the best blog for us.we are enjoy it and will show them to everyone.

  • juliabraon||

    upto I looked at the receipt saying $6637, I have faith that my neighbour was like realy taking home money part-time on their computer.. there dads buddy haz done this less than 18 months and just now paid the mortgage on their mini mansion and bourt Lotus Esprit. we looked here,

    http://jump30.com

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