How Solar Power Can Pay Off Debts

Boulder City, Nevada has found a new way to pay off its debt: solar power. The city is home to not only Hoover Dam, but two of the largest solar power plants in the United States, Copper Mountain Solar I (58 megawatts) and Nevada Solar One (65MW). Both solar facilities are leased on land owned by Boulder City in a specially designated "energy zone."

Combined, these solar lease payments provide at least $12 million a year, increasing Boulder City's revenue by 50 percent. Since the leases last 20 years, Boulder City is expected to obtain $480 million in rent revenue. By comparison, in 2011, the city's total debt burden topped $96 million. If its spending levels don't increase (granted, a big if), the city could eventually eliminate its entire debt.

However, it's not always sunny in Nevada. Both solar facilities are pitiful sources of green jobs. Although they did create hundreds of temporary construction jobs, Nevada Solar One now employs only 30 people, while Copper Mountain Solar I has only 5 full-time positions.

Still, thanks to minimal regulations, both Copper Mountain Solar I and Nevada Solar One are expanding, while three Korean companies are finalizing plans for new solar projects. All together, these projects aim could soon have 1.4 GW of capacity, which could power 420,000 homes. (And unlike Germany, Nevada actually has sunlight.)

Since the land is owned locally by Boulder City, these firms can bypass the onerous Bureau of Land Management. One Korean investor explains:

The bureau's environmental impact studies take three or four years and the permits cost ($5 million to $6 million)...Boulder City did its due diligence in terms of who they do business with and the environmental impact, but the fact Boulder City doesn't require the environmental studies makes it a very preferable situation for Boulder City and the solar companies.

Unfortunately, this is rather rare in Nevada, since the federal government owns almost 85 percent of that state's land.

In addition, with no state corporate or individual income taxes, Nevada has the 2nd lowest tax burden in the United States, while its business tax climate ranks 3rd nationwide, according to the Tax Foundation. By comparison, neighboring California ranks 48th. In addition, Sempra Generation (the energy company behind Copper Mountain Solar I), was further enticed by state tax policies:

Incentives amounting to $12m came in the form of sales tax abatements for equipment purchases and a 55% property tax reduction for 20 years. These incentives were provided by the state officials.

Meanwhile, on the federal level, the devlopers of both projects were able to keep more of their money, thanks to the federal investment tax credit (ITC) program. This provides a 30 percent tax credit on a renewable energy project, which deducts the total amount of taxes owed to the federal government.

Of course, the ITC and other narrow tax policies still constitute a form of political favoritism. The best course of action would be to repeal all of these energy tax breaks and deductions, and lower rates for everyone. Speaking of which, this precisely is what Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-KS) hope to do with their new bill, the Energy Freedom & Economic Prosperity Act. Boulder City, Nevada is proof that low taxes, minimal red tape and federalism can boost a local economy.

Reason on solar power. For more on tax breaks, be sure to read A. Barton Hinkle on "The Difference Between a Tax Break and a Subsidy." And if you want to know more about municipal debt crises (as well as Portland microbrews and the Plastic People of the Universe), get a copy of The Declaration of Independents: How Libertarian Politics Can Fix What's Wrong with America.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • AuH20||

    So, I think we need to make incif opt in instead of opt out.

    Thus, if I only want to see Epi, Pro L's, and SF's derranged comments, I have to add them, rather than choose to ignore them. Otherwise, I see no comments.

    This way, we avoid griefer trolls.

  • AuH20||

    Also, I understand that it isn't a perfect system, as people like rather and WI would simply steal handles, but it would improve over the current spamming.

  • rather||

    Prove it or STFU pee water

  • AuH20||

    Hmmmm, you seem oddly defensive of WI, a user who you consistently deny being a mirror of.

    It's very odd, splenda tits*.

    *I'm saying they're ugly and fake.

  • rather||

    People like pee water who make accusations without proof should have their IP address published.

    He is the equivalent of a spoof because is 'statement of fact' hides behind anonymity and puts H&R in legal peril.

    Any lawsuit against H&R will result in the publishing of everyone's IPs, spoofer , or not -that includes those foolish enough to do so from their employer's address

  • AuH20||

    Y'know what rather?

    For my turn, I pity you. You have some very serious issues, and I hope, at one point, you find someone to help you resolve them.

    Your life is driven by hate, and that just can not be healthy. I won't insult you anymore, or tell you to grow up, because I've realized something: The prison that you build, rather, is in your own mind. You derrive pleasure from pissing people off. You spend your whole life hating on us.

    To give an opposite example: I hate Jezebel. I am tempted to troll them. But then, a part of me thinks, "What the fuck would be the point? Would it change them? Would it help you? No? Then move on."

    Clearly, you are either immature enough or damaged enough to derive some pleasure from your actions. That's fine, but I do hope you find something more fulfilling to center your life around.

    I would also like to ask my fellow HnR'ers to pity, not hate, rather. She's a lost soul, and our hatred does little. Our pity might achieve a result.

  • Rather||

    Are you panicking pee water? Or just a silly boy who cant remember what he has written in the past? And by the past , I mean ten minutes ago

    So, how long have you been posting here; I'm dying to hear your response

  • AuH20||

    I will reiterate myself but once: My earlier comments were made in foolish anger.

    Now, I pity you, rather. You have a lot of pain in there, and I hope, at some point, you can heal. You clearly need some help, and I would be more than happy to recommend some form of therapy with the proper research.

  • Rather||

    "My earlier comments were made in foolish anger"

    I will restate the question: are you justifying comments made today? Yesterday? Last week? Last month? Last six months?

    Are you having chronic anger/control issues? Do you have a medical/psychiatric diagnosis or classification for your abundance of slander?

  • Hate the State = Not Healthy||

    Goldwater = Progressive nutcase.

  • A. A. Wolk||

    Hey, I *tried* to sue you fucking Nazi-loving "libertarians".

    Better luck for me next time, assholes!

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • ?||

    Who knew narcissism could be such as hassle?

  • Lame Objections to Primitivism||

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why They’re Wrong
    by Jason Godesky
    http://www.rewild.info/anthrop.....yre-wrong/

  • Live Free or Diet||

    5 Common Objections to Primitivism, and Why They’re Wrong

    #6: Primitive societies show a murder rates averaging about 15%.
    New Orleans, the bloodiest city in America, has a murder rate of about 0.058%.

    Will you feel free to gambol among the rot?

  • Jeffersonian||

    Until some other primitive clubs him over the coconut, possibly.

    I smiled when I wrote that.

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • Bill||

    Comic Book Guy, do you have a Radioactive Man #1?

  • rather||

    who is your royal 'we' and even more telling how long have you commented here?

  • AuH20||

    Longer than you, splenda tits.

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • Live Free or Diet||

    And see no contact from new folks? What a shame.

    It seems to me that trolls could simply put Sugar Free's information in their Comment header fields and get included anyway.

  • AuH20||

    Imperfect, as I said, but better than the current system.

  • Bingo||

    Hmm, it is open source.

    https://github.com/brymck/reasonable

    The references specific to white indian in the code are hilarious too.

  • Bingo||


    if (WHITE_INDIAN.test(content) || WHITE_INDIAN_HEAP_BIG_YELL.test(content)) {
    isTroll = true;
    break;
    }
  • ||

    gambolLockdown = TRUE

  • Officer, am I free to gambol||

    ...about plain and forest?

  • LibertardGriefers take WI name||

    Bunch of damn thieves of intellectual property.

    Then they say other people are doing what they're doing.

    Libertards are like priestcraft buttfucking choir boys, and calling on everybody else to be holy.

  • Libertarian||

    We must regulate this message board now!

  • -||

    And punish the anarchists!
    Wait a minute.

    Oh.

  • ||

    First: libertarian =/= anarchist.

    Second: most of us don't have a problem with regulation, as long as its not followed by the barrel of a gun.

  • The Pointer-Outer||

    Reason = privately-owned, non-governmental entity.

    Though I would hate to see it turn into a registration-required outfit, that would be the right of the owners to do so.

  • Standard Libertarian Bullshit||

    Just as fantastical as Communism.

    Never been done in real life because it doesn't and cannot work.

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • ||

    You're speaking of a "whitelist" rather than INCIF's ordinary "blacklist". It's not hard to convert between the two. In fact I believe the Chrome plugin Reasonable has that capability.

  • ||

    Why not just call each other on the phone if you want to chat?
    Problem solved.

  • bisexual||

    Looking to find someone special for Valentine's Day? "datebi.c/0/m/" is a site for bisexual and bicurious singles and friends.Here you can find hundreds of thousands of open-minded singles & couples looking to explore their bisexuality.I am also a member there under the username "lily green".sign up for free.Come in and discover the excitement you deserve! ^_^

  • Jumbie||

    Bring back Lily or GTFO

  • Confusius Say||

    Transformers hum because not know words.

  • Michael Bay||

    Not when I make movies of them!

  • rather||

    Nevada has no state corporate or individual income taxes; why do Californians move all the way to Texas then?

  • Apatheist||

    Texas doesn't have those either.

  • Rather||

    Yes, but the proximity factor puzzles me

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • cynical||

    Too many ex-Californians in Nevada. Or Mormons. One or the other.

  • Just an Engineer||

    Jobs

  • AuH20||

    G.D. America. Rugby Sevens?

    WHY DON'T YOU TELEVISE TOUCH FOOTBALL?!

  • ||

    I don't get Sevens, at least as it currently stands. You halve the number of players, but keep the field exactly the same size, then have 14 minutes total playing time? WTF?

    It looks like a pussy version of League with almost no kicking strategy whatsoever.

  • Reason Cleaning Staff||

    GET RID OF THREADED COMMENTS

  • Touch my Football||

    Or just my libertarian balls. They're small.

  • Bo-Bo||

    Small but dangly!

  • BakedPenguin||

    Nevada Solar One now employs only 30 people, while Copper Mountain Solar I has only 5 full-time positions.

    Creating jobs is a side effect of creating wealth, not a main function. If solar plants actually require far less staff than other electric plants, this is a plus on the cost / benefit analysis for them.

    Given their other inefficiencies, they need it.

  • Mike M.||

    It sure puts the lie to this lefty fantasy though that so-called "clean energy" is going to be some massive employment engine of the future.

    I'm pretty sure that the Keystone Pipeline would create a heck of a lot more than five full-time jobs.

  • Right Wing Fantasies||

    vs. Left Wing Fantasies.

    They're all Fantasies. Get it yet?

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • Bill||

    Once it is built and underground?? Hopefully not too many or needed. If they are it will be due to leaks.

  • tarran||

    Honestly, the old commenting engine worked really well. Better preview too.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Hope you don't mind if I post this here; it's the second-most-implausible romance I've ever heard of:

    Toll collector and commuter married after meeting on Thruway

    Small talk ensued for three months — each chat lasting only a few seconds, as traffic backed up behind them.

    “How’s your day? Where are you going? What are you up to today?”

    But inwardly, their motors revved....

    Three months later, Baker finally got up the nerve to ask the “cute toll collector” out. Her hands shook as she slipped him a note with her phone number....

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....mmabuSXvEO

  • Live Free or Diet||

    Sounds like somebody watched While You Were Sleeping to many times.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    But in that movie, it was the chick who was the toll collector, and it was in a subway. Also, there were Comical Misunderstandings (TM) and she ended up with some other dude.

  • Eduard van Haalen||

    Oh, baby, I done *toll* you
    Yours is the booth I hate to pass
    I'd like to slow down on the freeway of life
    Just to grab your...

  • Bill||

    Nice story. Thnx.

  • ||

    That's not real, it's a porn movie.

  • Brett L||

    1050 comments on the previous thread? Glad I spent my sunday foolin' with a drill press.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Indeed. It was a tsunami of stupidity, but most of all, it robbed me of the chance to post this.

  • Jeffersonian||

    How is it that our trolls manage to be both insipid and vicious?

  • Bingo||

    Well at least one of them is an obsessive female.

  • I know you are, but what am I?||

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • Rather||

    Where is Banjo?

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • Rather||

    how? because most, if not all, are regulars and that includes the one who claims not to post on the weekend

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • I know you are, but what am I?||

  • I know you are, but what am I?||

  • I know you are, but what am I?||

  • Anacreon||

    Infinity!

  • AlmightyJB||

    "How Solar Power Can Pay Off Debts"

    Did China run out of money?

  • ||

    Sweet Jesus, Godesky's in THIS thread, too. How the fuck are we going to survive this storm?

  • Bingo||

    FFS people, White Indian is rather copying and pasting that guy's shit. It's another one of her personas.

  • ||

    It's rectal, dude. All the trolls are rectal. All you can do in her manic episodes is ignore, so just find something else to do.

  • Bill||

    I refuse to believe it. That would make her an evil genius. An evil-genius super troll.

  • Mike M.||

    Unfortunately, this is rather rare in Nevada, since the federal government owns almost 85 percent of that state's land.

    A point about which not nearly enough of a stink is made, by the way. Washington DCs tyranny against the west to appease a bunch of lunatic radical environmentalists isn't just illogical, it's highly immoral.

    Maybe the feds can pay down some of their massive $15.3 trillion debt by auctioning off these tracts of land to the highest bidders, since there's absolutely no valid justification for them to own all that land anyway.

  • ||

    +10,000

  • ||

    Here, localities derive much of their revenue from property taxes. Out west, how do the states, counties, and cities feel about the federal govt owning all that land? Surely they would rather be able to collect taxes on it?

  • Sevo||

    See here for what the fed owns, and some truly brain-dead comments on selling it:
    http://www.therealestateblogge.....ownership/

  • ||

    Didn't that situation come about because most of Nevada is useless (for humans) wasteland? I don't see private interests beating down the door of the Interior Dept wanting to buy that land.

  • ||

    Solar my ass. That, and wind, are a giant scam. Exactly how many times do these guys get to get away with this shit before people catch on?

    Let me get this straight.....the 'city' is getting rent for letting the panels be on their property. The solar company aquires the rent from....the people of the city who pay electric bills. It is just a damn tax. If the people couldnt pay their debt before, why will they now? How were they getting electricity before? Presumably from a power plant that owned the property it is on.

  • ||

  • Rather||

    Poor Warty can't ignore me, again. As with addiction baby, just keep on trying :-)

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • ||

    Wow Rather, I take that to mean you really are White Indian and the other assorted trolls. God you are one sick bitch.

  • Rather||

    John you cannot be that stupid; can you?

  • SIV||

    End threaded comments and there won't be any 1000+ comment threads.

  • ||

    Wow, you fellas take your chat rooms seriously.

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • ||

    There was a 1000 comment thread back in the days of chronic comments.

  • ||

    If there was no chat room, would people still come to this site?
    You know, to look at the centerfold read the articles?

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • ||

    Two words "Sarah Palin". She produced several 1000 comment threads in the days before threaded comments. Of course none of them were about fat guys dreaming of gamboling.

  • ||

    Officer, am I free to gambol through Bristol's vagina?

  • Dave||

    "Of course, the ITC and other narrow tax policies still constitute a form of political favoritism. The best course of action would be to repeal all of these energy tax breaks and deductions, and lower rates for everyone. Speaking of which, this precisely is what Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) and Rep. Mike Pompeo (R-KS) hope to do with their new bill, the Energy Freedom & Economic Prosperity Act. Boulder City, Nevada is proof that low taxes, minimal red tape and federalism can boost a local economy."

    Ok, I was waiting for that. Had to check for a moment and be sure I hadn't clicked onto treehugger.com for a second. Micromanaging subsidies and tax abatements isn't exactly a Reason hobby-horse. Was scratching my head for a bit there. . .

  • Mingxin||

    Let's not forget that the fossil fuel industry gets a LOT more in tax breaks than renewable energy. You can't have your cake and eat it too, i.e. lament subsidies and tax breaks of one and decry favoritism while ignoring those of the other. Just sayin'

  • ||

    I miss Stevo Threadkiller

  • Not an occupier||

  • ||

    Wow. If the drug warriors lose Barry Manilow too they're toast.

    Tony Bennett:Drugs Should Be Legal After Whitney, Michael & Amy's Deaths

    Bennett performed at the Beverly Hilton last night Clive Davis' pre-Grammy party, in an evening dedicated to Houston. Bennett told the crowd, "First it was Michael Jackson, then Amy Winehouse, now the magnificent Whitney Houston. Let's legalize drugs, like Amsterdam, it's a very sane city now."

    And Heath Ledger.

    Of course, journalistic luminary Tina Moore considers this "dopey", nearly as much as the idea that 9/11 had any connection to past US foreign policy. She's apparently saving her explanation of why this is dopey for the book.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Labeling opinions dopey or extreme is much easier than arguing with them. Such is the laziness of todays media.

  • such is the laziness||

    It's much easier labeling WI as dopey or extreme than to argue with him. He's just too smart to refute rationally.

  • Dumfuckistan||

    But him being a lazy dumb fuck who spends his days stuffing his pie hole with mom's cheetos, makes it easy to label him.

  • such is the laziness||

    It's much easier labeling WI as dopey or extreme or fat than to argue with him. He's just too smart to refute rationally.

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • Dumfuckistan||

    No, it is not easy. It is just true. He is our first citizen and ambassador.

  • Sevo||

    "He's just too smart to refute rationally."

    That's GREAT! I'll bet you got a million of 'em!
    But let's be honest: WI is entirely too ignorant to understand the factual and logical debunking of WI's religion or even the extent of WI's ignorance.

  • ||

    Some men can't be bought, or reasoned with. Some men just want to watch the thread burn.

  • ||

    I think Warty may be right Tulpa. It may be all Rather. She kind of admits it up above when she taunts him.

  • ||

    If that's really her.

    Nobody knows what's going on, really, and it's kind of strange that some people are much more sure than they possibly could be as innocent bilovers.

  • Rather||

    Tulpa, I am not and my hand is forced to tell the story of why they are doing it

  • Sevo||

    Could be; Rather is not a stable personality and simply copying and pasting WI's "theories" isn't difficult.
    But the insistence suggests someone invested in the stupidity. He's got two or three followers, and those are *certainly* not stable personalities.

  • ||

    I think maybe it is the guy's followers. They really seem committed to it. And they don't like to be laughed at.

  • Bingo||

    It's fucking rather dude. The White Indian insanity corresponds with her manic episodes every. fucking. time.

    She's even admitted to it when I called her out on it a month or two ago. She's mentally unstable and either doesn't have a job/life or is paid to do it. I'm leaning toward the former because even a paid troll would have better things to do than spend 12 hours a day shitting all over a message board.

  • ||

    You are right Bingo. Her blog is deeply strange. She is a very troubled person.

  • Rather||

    Bingo, I never had a conversation with you claiming to be WI, or anyone else; I avoid talking to you.

    Please incif me too

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • White Indian||

    It's much easier labeling WI as dopey or extreme than to argue with him. He's just too smartblindingly stupid to refute rationally.

    FIFY.

  • Old Mexican||

    It's much easier labeling WI as dopey or extreme than to argue with him.


    He's not dopey OR extreme. He's extremely dopey.

    And he would cry like a little wussy girl at the sight of Black Widow spiders inside his makeshift shelter if having to fend in his beloved "original affluent society".

    Waa waa waa!!!

  • el Commentariosa||

    WI isn't a real thing.

  • Rather||

    so you are him too?

  • Bee Tagger||

    Holy crap, I'm sure I'm late to this Freedom Watch episode. Bob Barr is on screen saying that libertarians should have a lot to like in Newt Gingrich. If it wasn't properly appalling that he was the Libertarian presidential candidate last time around, it should be now.

  • ||

    BarrF

  • AlmightyJB||

    I cant think of one thing to like about nuctits except that one day hes going to die.

  • Newt Paul||

    Signing contracts is sacred. But signing marriage vows or newsletters written by racist libertarians, those signatures aren't sacred. Things happen, ya know.

    I'm Newt Paul, and I approve this message.

  • rathernot||

    Silence

  • AlmightyJB||

    Is it too much to ask to not be redirected to your shitty mobile website. If I want to go to worst mobile site on the web, Ill let you know.
    Seriously. Its starting to piss me off.

  • piss off, Joe Blow||

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • Simon and Garfunkel ||

    hello darkness my old friend

  • rathernot||

    silence

  • ||

    Yeah it is. And totally unnecessary.

  • ||

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fin.....bombs.html

    The Greeks are rioting. I would love to know what these people think they are going to do. They plan to march on Germany and demand money?

  • Reason Cleaning Staff||

    Good for the Greeks, rioting to protect their rights to evade income tax and spend other people's money

  • Jesus||

    Good for the Greeks? STFU with your liberal shit. Take Obama's fucking cock out of your mouth and actually THINK for a few fucking seconds, you goddamned moron.

  • Dumfuckistan||

    Sigh

  • Vermillion II||

    *choke*

  • Bee Tagger||

    If natural disasters improve economies, this has to be even better for Greece since they're employing people to be the earthquake.

  • Fallacy of the Bro-Win fallacy||

  • ||

    It is a real broken windows stimulus.

  • Uncle Joe||

    You know who else marched on Germany?

  • Maximus||

    Rome?

  • Dumfuckistan||

    White Indian?

  • paranoia||

    self destroya

  • Dumfuckistan||

    Sigh

  • Reason Cleaning Staff||

    David Hasselhof?

  • ||

    Technoviking?

  • Sevo||

    Eisenhower? Patton? Sure wasn't Monty.

  • Michael Bay||

    My next Transformers movie?

  • Sevo||

    John|2.12.12 @ 8:59PM|#
    ..."I would love to know what these people think they are going to do"...

    Here it is, John, they're just hoping that "other peoples' money" will keep doing the job:
    "Typical of the dissidents' arguments was the one put forward by veteran socialist Vasso Papandreou (no relation to the socialist leader), a former minister and member of the European Commission. "If we say we do not pay the bond that matures on March 20, all (Europeans) will rush to find a solution," she said."
    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....1N6GEG.DTL (or your fave AP reseller.)
    Yep, you read that right: 'We don't give a shit; we'll just keep stealing money wherever we can!'. Give a lefty a gun and that's the result.

  • ||

    Pathetic. They are not even socialists. Socialists would set up a commune. These fuckers are just lazy thieves. Cut them off and let them starve.

  • juris imprudent||

    The price NATO paid to keep the Greeks out of the Eastern Bloc in '48.

  • ||

    Sounds like a variation on the old saw: if you owe the bank $100, the bank has you by the balls. If you owe the bank $1,000,000, you have the bank by the balls.

    Of course the amounts have to be updated for the post-Greenspan dollar.

  • ||

    Or the old Thatcher statement about eventually running out of other people's money.

  • ||

    Or the thing Confucius said to Buddha when they were vacationing in Phuket.

  • Jumbie||

    "Get your cock out of that ladyboy and get me another maitai."?

  • Sevo||

    Tulpa|2.12.12 @ 9:43PM|#
    "Sounds like a variation on the old saw: if you owe the bank $100, the bank has you by the balls. If you owe the bank $1,000,000, you have the bank by the balls."

    Or the Bernankian 'too big to fail'.
    The fact is that Greece can cause a whole lot of economic grief; the concept of the Euro was based on the presumption of the 'new Soviet nation', and now they're finding out that that fantasy is, well, every bit as valid as the 'new Soviet man'.
    Incentives matter.

  • cynical||

    Well, the alternative is the adult toddlers burning shit down. They should just hire Assad to deal with it.

  • ||

    No shit. I wonder if they could work out a government trade. Let the people of Syria have the Greek government and let the Greeks have Assad.

  • cynical||

    That's a good idea, actually. You should send it off to the State department.

  • cynical||

    That's a good idea, actually. You should send it off to the State department.

  • Tonmax Hanstard||

    Then we can buy Greece and send the Jews to live there.

  • Tonmax Hanstard||

    Miss us yet?

  • cynical||

    So, has Boulder looked into turning their solar plant into a giant energy weapon? Aside from extorting money from other towns, I imagine it's pretty effective at dealing with invaders from California.

  • el Commentariosa||

    The hand of Nod?

  • Ska||

    Helios one?

  • Bingo||

    From the Reuters article on Drudge:

    Cinemas, cafes, shops and banks were set ablaze in central Athens as black-masked protesters fought riot police outside parliament.

    Can someone please explain to me the logic of burning down your neighbors businesses when you are pissed off at your government?

  • ||

    They don't have any logic.

  • Bingo||

    It reminds me of the OWS folks. "We are super mad that the government bailed out the banks, and the crony capitalism in DC, and that education is super expensive due almost to the government. Therefore we should protest the NYSE."

  • Bingo||

    *"almost entirely" otherwise one of the pedants here will bitch about it

  • Sevo||

    I think you're imputing entirely too much ethics.
    Seems to me the O(x) groups are simply griping that *they* didn't get the pay-outs.

  • Bingo||

    Wow, I hadn't thought of it that way. That's pretty depressing.

  • ||

    Bingo is identifying the rhetoric, you're identifying the ulterior motives.

    You're both right.

    Though I suspect a lot of the OWSers are just doing it because it's a happening thing to do and helps you get laid.

  • Rev. Blue Moon ||

    Man, I don't see how the stench of OWS puts anyone in the mood. The weekend before Bloomberg cleaned them out of Zucotti, I went down there and you could smell them from three NYC blocks away.

  • tarran||

    Under feudalism, serfs used to reproduce despite sharing their homes with livestock..

    Presumably one becomes accustomed to the smell of shit.

  • Bingo||

    Sevo is more correct than I am. The rhetoric is that they aren't getting bailouts, they aren't against bailouts in general.

    As an example, OWS would not be pissed off if some Green Corporation (I'll let you use your imagination here *cough*Solyndra) was given a blank check with no restrictions by .gov.

  • Ri O'Ter||

    Can someone please explain to me the logic of burning down your neighbors businesses when you are pissed off at your government?

    Sure. It makes a statement.

  • Occupiers||

    We're just waiting to get riled up enough to start burnin' shit the fuck down!

  • ||

    it makes a statement against the validity of your argument and incentivizes people to LOSE sympathy for your cause.

    otoh, it can incentivize juries to rule your way out of fear of future riots (see: rodney king). in that respect, the riots accomplished something - reverse jury nullification

  • Bingo||

    See, even dunphy and I agree on this. It's like attacking post offices while claiming you hate abortion, it's that absurd. What the fuck sort of statement does that make?

    Of course, maybe the explanation is to judge the crowd by their actions instead of their supposed rationale. In which case, they aren't mad at their government, they are making a scene like a spoiled toddler for their government to give them what they want. Other people be damned.

  • Occupy Everest||

    Because it's there.

  • cynical||

    The government can fight back?

  • el Commentariosa||

    anyone got the stat on what %age of Greeks work for the civil service? I recall it was around 80%?

  • Sevo||

    Well for enough spin to make you dizzy, how about:
    "In 2011, Greece’s public sector employment is 8% of the population and 18% of the active labour force."
    http://www.philip-atticus.com/.....reece.html
    But for a bit more skeptical view:
    "The government's proposals for deep spending cuts already have stoked strong resentments in a country where one in three people is employed in a civil service that, until now, has guaranteed jobs for life."
    http://econlog.econlib.org/arc.....greek.html
    Now, it's possible that Atticus is correct, but if so, why are so many upset? I'm going with "Atticus is a fucking liar".

  • el Commentariosa||

    2/3 is still quite high.

  • el Commentariosa||

    1/3

  • Old Mexican||

    Unfortunately, this is rather rare in Nevada, since the federal government owns almost 85 percent of that state's land.


    So much for private property being the root of all evil, like the little wussy girl would say when not being chased by badgers if in his beloved "original affluent society".

  • ||

    Ever heard of the Nevada Land Rush?

    Me either.

    It's a barren wasteland that no one would bother with except for the ability to do things that are illegal elsewhere.

  • ||

    "Thank you Lord for nuclear power, the cleanest, most efficient source of energy there is, except for solar, which is just a pipe dream!"

    --Homer Simpson

  • el Commentariosa||

    Headsup: Fox News' "Stupid in America" is not the Sarah Palin bio.

  • el Commentariosa||

    When did Paul McCartney start looking like Angela Merkel?

  • Hey, el Commentariosa - ||

    FUCK OFF!!!

  • anon||

    I'm guessing it's far too early for AM links.

  • anon||

    Also: Fuck the grammys, and fuck everyone that watches them. And fuck Whitney "Crackwhore" Houston.

  • Bee Tagger||

    Im glad I got to see The Beach Boys reunion, I suppose. And I was pleasantly surprised by Foster The People's attempt at Wouldn't It Be Nice

  • ||

    Should be interesting to see how that turns out.

    www.anon-stuff.tk

  • ||

    Boulder City is not a great place to live. The City is actally run by anti-growth anti-gaming folks and that results in very high real estate prices. Trailer homes are 6 figures there.

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