Reason.tv: Prohibition Vogue-Why We're Still Talking About "The Noble Experiment"
Alcohol prohibition may have been repealed in 1933, but Americans have rarely been more intoxicated with the "noble experiment" than they are today.
Between Last Call, Daniel Okrent's best-selling 2010 book, leading clothing designers taking inspiration from jazz age fashion, a new prime-time documentary by Ken Burns, and the new, second season of HBOs critically acclaimed Boardwalk Empire, it's impossible to ignore the new interest in Prohibition. With a fixation on "classic cocktails" and faux-speakeasies, even drinking culture itself seems to be bellying up to the bar.
What's fueling this fascination and where will it end? Reason.tv talks with filmmaker Burns, author Okrent, and drug policy activist Aaron Houston of Students for Sensible Policy, who argues that "Culture and art right now are reflective of a general sentiment in this society that the war on drugs has not worked."
And that change is in air. Marijuana legalization initiatives will be on the ballot in at least two states in 2012, Reps. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and Barney Frank (D-Mass.) have introduced legislation to let states decide pot's legal status, and record high levels of Americans are in favor of legalization. As Okrent tells Reason.tv, the need for excise tax revenue during the Great Depression helped make repeal of alcohol prohibition not just possible but desirable. Coupled with a sense of exhaustion at a drug war that has done little to prevent drug use, the dire financial straits of government at all levels may just spell the demise of contemporary prohibition.
Approx. 5 minutes. Written and produced by Meredith Bragg and Nick Gillespie, who also narrates. Additional camera work by Jim Epstein and Anthony Fisher.
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...the dire financial straits of government at all levels may just spell the demise of contemporary prohibition.
If there wasn't a huge industry dependent on drug and alcohol prohibition, this might actually have been the thing to kill it.
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You don't say?
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If drugs are legalized will the AK-47 go the way of the Tommy gun?
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By using that photo is the Reason Foundation endorsing suicide? You should mention that a crap gun like that is only likely to lobotomize you.
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Jimmy: "Dear God! What have I done?"
(Jimmy pulls out a gun and points it to his head and fires)
Jimmy's Dad: "Think again Jimmy. You see the firing pin in your gun was made out of…yep…zinc."
Jimmy: "Come back zinc, come back!!"
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You crazier than me, LOL.
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crap gun like that
Looks like a British Bull Dog. I have a copy in .32 S&W Long. Not the greatest gun in the world, but I wouldn't want to be shot by it. I know James Garfield didn't want to be.
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Forgot the link.
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OH SNAP, PREZ GARFIELD! YOU GOT BURNED!
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I'M IN YOUR GUITEAU, SHOOTIN' UR PREZ
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Show some respect young hooligan!
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Chester A. Arthur fall down.
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If you don't like alcohol, then don't use it. If you don't like marijuana, then don't use it.
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But..but...you can't just let people enjoy themselves.
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that's not the way this workz
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DRINK!!
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Make it a double shot since his comment implies that Reason was better off with Postrel.
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Well...it was.
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Who's Postrel?
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Virginia "The Valiant Virgin" Postrel. Things were better, etc, etc.
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SMOKE!!!
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The former chief editor of Reason, and the author of The Future and Its Enemies (now available on Kindle!)
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Well, yeah, if you want to be all "useful" and "accurate" and stuff. Why does the title of that book remind me of something by Popper?
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Because Postrel may have "borrowed" part of it?
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Obviously, it's been too long since I've read Popper. Cheers.
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If it's in all caps it must be true!
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GREGOOOOOOOOOO
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DITTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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HOORAY! HE'S BACK!!!!
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And I have to alter my incif file.
Sorry all the BILL's of the world.
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"they attack cops and prisons all the time, they support illegal aliens, they attack the Tea Party, the ridicule Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter, they don't believe in American Exceptionalism, they laugh at me when I say our rights come from God (it's in the Declaration of Independence)... I don't get it, it's like they live in a different universe. "
Head aching? Ask your Doctor about fast acting Republican...
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Fuck off, Grego.
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Oh I will, Zeb, I will keep "fucking" with the LINO's whenever I have the time. You should see me on Facebook, why just today I encountered one LINO who supports affirmative action and another LINO who defends the EPA. I guess to them John Stossel is rightwing, LOL.
May I remind my dear LINO's that libertarianism is more than having a partial birth abortion while smoking a joint while filming a cop while protesting the war?
Yes my LINO's, there's no to life than that.
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GRREEGGGOOOOOO
You like being banned, Grego? I will laugh when you get banned again. Shit, I'm laughing now.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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LINOOOOOOOOOOOO
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BANNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOO
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HODOOOOOOR!
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YES!
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LIONOOOOOOOOO! THUNDERCATS! HOOOOOOOOO!
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WOOOOOOOOLVERIIIIIIINES!!!
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Why sure, I love to see the "libertarians" show how much they love "liberty" by banning anyone with politically incorrect opinions.
And I will keep reinventing myself, unlike rawstory and The Huffington Post, your IT guy hasn't figure out how to ban me forever.
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How's the cell phone data plan, Gregory?
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Yes my LINO's, there's no to life than that.
Cool story BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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I meant "more" to life than that. Alas, Reason does not allow editing after you hit submit.
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You bet Grego. I just cashed my welfare check, and now I'm going to go get a hooker and illegal drugs and hang out with my "anarchist" buddies! WOOT!
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Ok come on. The last part was funny. Have a sense of humor folks.
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When you encountered these people who support affirmitve action and defend the EPA, the real question is how do YOU respond? Do you "fuck" with them, or do you use the opportunity to engage with them and attempt to persuade?
If they considered themselves as "libertarians" then there must be some agreement you had with them. Maybe next time instead of "fucking" with them or degrading them it would be more beneficial to yourself to them and to all "libertarians" if you use logic and reason to show them the error of their ways.
You can catch more flies with honey than you can with vinegar.
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True, but what happens when vinegar gets thrown in my face? This is my typical experience.
ME: I oppose illegal immigration.
LINO: No human being is illegal, racist!
or
LINO: Go back to burning crosses, kluxer!ME: Go back to Mexico, beaner!
See? It's not like I start as an a-hole, I simply adapt to the environment.
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This coming from a man who started off one conversation explaining that Texas is awesome and that the North sucked.
Then followed up with a desire to shoot American liberals
But he's not an asshole. Only liberals say he's an asshole. Gregory knows, though, that it's really society's fault that he behaves the way he does.
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Tarran, you're like MSNBC, you're only telling part of the story:
James Street wrote:
"A lot of liberals will become terrorists if Julian Assange is convicted of terrorism because they believe what he did is NOT terrorism. It's simple logic."I replied: "Good! Then we'll get to practice our markmanship skills with liberals."
Really Tarran, you're like the guy that doesn't care when an anarchist destroys a Starbucks but if the cops hits him with a billy club, that's a crime against humanity, right?
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too bad left vs. right is a false dichotomy these days. There are statists, there are libertarians and varying degrees of either. Unless you want to get real technical and speak of the roots of right wing vs left wing in the French National Assembly at the beginning of the French Revolution. All libertarians would be considered left-wing in those terms.
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I don't know if I'd rather bang Jimmy's mom or his wife.
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The confession that she would kiss Jimmy's "winkie" when changing his diaper was a bit of a turn-off...
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Bit of....yeah it was revolting. Thanks for reminding me. ;)
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That bit was awesomely uncomfortable. Good shit.
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What are you referencing?
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Boardwalk Empire
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Wife, obviously. A playful threeway with two bi chicks...boom chicka wow wow. A freak who kissed her babie's winkie ? No. Thank. You.
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I wonder which one mask face is thinking about.
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That's pretty much my line of thought.
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It's interesting to note that the 18th amendment didn't actually outlaw the USE of alcohol, unlike today's drug laws.
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Yeah, where would WINDEX be?
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actually, to be hypertechnical , most drug laws don't outlaw the USE of drugs (california having some exceptions)
they outlaw the possession of it.
you can have all the drugs you want in your system and its not illegal, in most states.
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True, but Prohibition didn't even outlaw possession. It was illegal to manufacture, sell, or transport alcohol, but just having it was never a crime. (Even producing it wasn't always strictly illegal, since making wine or hard cider at home was effectively legal.) You could have a house chock-full of liquor, but as long as it wasn't for commercial activity, you were fine. That alone made Prohibition way less invasive than the current War On Some Drugs.
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So I take it Aaron Houston never actually saw the Untouchables.
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Threadjack! For once in his life, O'Donnell has a moment of lucidity: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded
Sorry, for the extreme Sugarfreeing, no idea how to make the link. Maybe http://youtu.be/v5zmzV5IxpQ ? -
Hah! They both worked! *victory chicken dance*
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That was actually pretty good. My cynicism is telling me that it happened because the victims were part of MSNBC's key demographic, but he could have done another opinion piece on how the R's need to compromise because the next Obama stimulus will be the shit.
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"That was actually pretty good"
For a moment I thought you were referring to my spectacular chicken dance. :(
But yes, it also occurred to me to be cynical about it, but I spend so much time responding cynically to politics, I think my jar was out at the moment.
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I know how you feel. Sometimes it's just better to be grateful for small victories.
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This. A million times.
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I keep hearing Prohibition called "the Noble Experiment". What is so goddamn noble about it? How is telling everyone else what they can or cannot drink, and backing it up by force of law, "noble" in any way?
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It's kind of like how temperance meant abstinence.
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We got a lot of great TV shows and movies and Sean Connery saying ; " Just like a Wop bringing a knife to a gunfight". Noble stuff.
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It's a Herbert Hoover quote. They are using it sarcastically.
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HERBOOOOOOOOO
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+3 Glib points
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GLIBOOOOO
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OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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Swine.
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Me or Hoover?
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I was using it sarcastically.
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Sounds like Mr. Crankypants needs a nap.
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I'm tired and my feet hurt. This place is freezing. You kids and your rap music. Baaaaaaaaaaah!
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Friday Funnies coming up in 14 hours. Now who's cranky?
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Way to jinx it.
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Rhetorical|2.20.09 @ 12:51PM|#|show direct|ignore
Are the Friday Funnies a lot like what a period feels like?
It comes on a regular schedule, can sometime be excruciating, you dread it as the days count down and it gets closer and closer... and then you finally get it, and it's strangely reliving that the tension has been broken. You only have to deal with the messy by-products and you can forget about it for a while.-
The final word on Friday Funnies. -
Damn, someone nailed it 2 1/2 years ago? Not bad.
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It's noble in the way that saving somebody from a burning house is noble. Obviously the comparison falls apart when you realize that drinking is not like a burning house and banning it didn't rescue anybody.
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It rescued mobsters and liquor cops from having to get real jobs.
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Jägerbombs are like a burning house.
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+1 for proper umlaut usage.
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Because they did it for the children.
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It's Nobel Experiment. The Temperance Movement won a Nobel Peace Prize for getting the amendment ratified.
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Really? I guess they waste those things on a regular basis.
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It wasn't actually illegal to drink alcohol during Prohibition. It was illegal to manufacture, sell, transport, import or export, but not to drink.
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most states' war on drug laws don't make it illegal to use drugs either. they make it illegal to POSSESS them, though (or conspire to possess them).
iirc, prohibition did not make mere possession of liquor illegal.
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Well, we know what the best way to destroy the evidence, then.
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I was using it sarcastically.
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"TELL ME WHERE THE BOMB IS!"
"It's in my popular designer handbag."
"YEAH, I'M SO SURE."
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It's worth remembering that Prohibition occurred in the 1920s. before the era of big government, the pervasive regulation of everyday life, the expansion of the Commerce Clause, unlimited federal deficits, and the accepted notion among the intellectual elite that federal authority is unlimited.
The federal government today wields weapons in the War on Drugs that the Harding, Coolidge and even Hoover Administrations would not have even dreamed they had the power to use.
Imagine if alcohol Prohibition returned today.
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I half-agree with you; remember that this was the "Progressive" era, and "Progressive" basically meant trying to improve things through regulation. (Remember that we also got the income tax and the NFA around the same general time.) It's true that no one back then seems to have imagined the kind of intensely intrusive, all-encompassing Federal government we have today, though.
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Though the parallel between alcohol prohibition and the ongoing war on drugs is obvious and important, I think if we (and Reason) focus exclusively on that, then
1) We risk having our whole point dismissed again as "the views of those pot-smoking libertarian hippies" and
2) We miss the opportunity to demonstrate the more general parallels to all sorts of statist policies made with foolish disregard to obvious "unintended" consequences. -
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