Probably Influenced By That Magazine He Doesn't Subscribe To, Say Unnamed Law Enforcement Officials, Maybe

The New York Times has an odd story up attempting to pry into the weird belief systems of murderous nut-sandwich Jared Loughner. It amounts to: A) Anecdotes of crazy/erratic behavior. B) Extrapolated political theories lacking a single strand of evidentiary connective tissue, aside from "that thing he said sounds like that thing other people said." C) Transition back to erratic behavior.

Here's what I mean, focusing on the B) part:

Some people who study right-wing militia groups and those who align themselves with the so-called patriot movement said Mr. Loughner's comments on subjects like the American currency and the Constitution, which he posted online in various video clips, were strikingly similar in language and tone to the voices of the Internet's more paranoid, extremist corners.

In the text on one of the videos, for example, Mr. Loughner states, "No! I won't pay debt with a currency that's not backed by gold and silver." He also argues that "the current government officials are in power for their currency" and he uses his videos — he never appears on screen, just displaying text — to talk about becoming a treasurer of "a new money system."

The position, for instance, that currency not backed by a gold or silver standard is worthless is a hallmark of the far right and the militia movement, said Mark Potok, who directs research on hate groups for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

"That idea is linked closely to the belief among militia supporters that the Federal Reserve is a completely private entity engaged in ripping off the American people," Mr. Potok said.

But Mr. Loughner also posits in his Web postings the idea that the government is seeking to control people through rules and structure of grammar and language.

This is similar to the position of David Wynn Miller, 62, a former tool-and-die welder from Milwaukee who describes himself as a "Plenipotentiary-judge" seeking to correct, through a mathematical formula, what he sees as the erroneous and manipulative use of grammar and language worldwide. The Southern Poverty Law Center considers Mr. Miller a conspiracy theorist, some of whose positions have been adopted by militias in general.

"The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar," Mr. Loughner said in a video. He also defiantly asserted, "You control your English grammar structure."

Mr. Miller, in an interview, said the argument sounded familiar. "He's probably been on my Web site, which has been up for about 11 years," Mr. Miller said. "The government does control the schools, and the schools determine the grammar and language we use. And then it is all reinforced by newspapers, magazines, TV, radio and everything we do in society."

Aaaaand CUT! A few notes:

1) Quoting the SPLC as an impartial arbiter on right-wing extremism is about as credible as quoting Brent Bozell as a fair-minded assessor of media content. This is not one of those, oh-the-ACLU-is-evil knee-jerk kind of observations; seriously, read up on the subject before either quoting from the organization or taking its findings as Gospel.

2) As someone more familiar than your average NYTer with gold-buggery complaints about the Federal Reserve and the Debauched Dollar, my personal testimony is that the phrase, "the current government officials are in power for their currency," if it's the "hallmark" of anything, is of...a crazy dude just stone rambling about shit. If there is evidence of this guy sounding like a "Paultard" on currency, that ain't it. Neither is the notion that the Fed is "a completely private entity," which is a formulation I have now heard from exactly one source, the SPLC.

3) It is indeed possible that Loughner was biting the rhymes of David Wynn Miller when it comes to government "seeking to control people through rules and structure of grammar and language." But the only evidence of that in this article comes from authorial assertaion that his views were "similar," and, um, from David Wynn Miller. There have been, I am pretty confident, more than just two people, or one ideological disposition, that have reached a similar conclusion.

This next piece of the B) section is even less convincing:

Law enforcement officials said they suspected that Mr. Loughner also might have been influenced by such things as American Renaissance, a conservative monthly magazine that describes itself as "America's premiere publication of racial-realist thought."

"We think that white Americans have an entirely legitimate reason to want to remain a majority in the United States because when a neighborhood or a school or an organization changes in demographics and becomes majority black or Hispanic, it is no longer the same institution or neighborhood," said Jared Taylor, its editor.

He added, "It may be shocking to hear something stated so bluntly."

Mr. Taylor said that his organization had searched its subscriber list going back 20 years and lists of those who had attended the group's conferences since 1994, but that there was no record of a Mr. Loughner.

But even as Mr. Loughner was exploring the outer boundaries of extremist philosophy, his life at school, which some acquaintances said was very important to him, was unraveling....

Uh, WTF was that? Seriously, we have unnamed "law enforcement officials," we have no explanation for why said law enforcement officials sought or were granted anonymity, we have the once-removing device of "such things as," we have no direct quotes showing that the unnamed officials mentioned American Renaissance by name, then we have–whoops!–denial that he was ever a subscriber in the first place. Followed by an absolutely evidence-free transition of "even as Mr. Loughner was exploring the outer boundaries of extremist philosophy." That is some stinky-ass journalism, New York Times, even if all those dots get connected at some later date.

(And no, he has never subscribed to Reason. )

The question of correlation/causation/responsibility of media messages vis-a-vis violent acts is a truly interesting subject, one that 99 percent of pundits are very busy at the moment trying not to engage with anything approaching seriousness or consistency. Two people who buck that foul trend are Jack Shafer and our own Jesse Walker.

Oh, BTW, I've buried the lede:

"The ubiquitous nature of the Internet means that not only threats, but hate speech and other inciteful speech is much more readily available to individuals than quite clearly it was eight or 10 or 15 years ago," [FBI Director Robert] Mueller said. "That absolutely presents a challenge for us, particularly when it results in what would be lone wolves or lone offenders undertaking attacks."

UPDATE: More on the supposed AmRen connection at FoxNews.com:

According to a law enforcement memo based on information provided by DHS and obtained by Fox News, Jared Loughner, the alleged shooter of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, may have been influenced by a pro-white racist organization that publishes an anti-immigration newsletter.

No direct connection, but strong suspicion is being direceted at American Renaissance, an organization that Loughner mentioned in some of his internet postings and federal law enforcement officials are investigating Loughner's possible links to the organization.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  • ||

    "The ubiquitous nature of the Internet means that not only threats, but hate speech and other inciteful speech is much more readily available to individuals than quite clearly it was eight or 10 or 15 years ago," [FBI Director Robert] Mueller said. "That absolutely presents a challenge for us, particularly when it results in what would be lone wolves or lone offenders undertaking attacks."

    Indeed, if this sort of access to extremist literature were available 8, 10, or even 25 years ago, John F. Kennedy, William McKinley, James Garfield, and Abraham Lincoln might all have been assassinated.

    Also, people might have tried to kill Andrew Jackson, Teddy Roosevelt, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan.

  • Rather ||

    The meme of blocking internet access continues...

  • ||

    You got it. The frightening aspect to this story is how so many people are now making the government's control of the web without any proof that this was political in nature. The shooter was schizophrenic.

  • Irresponsible Hater||

    Ah, "memes" - are those the things that conspiracy theorists think are trying to control our minds through words and grammar?

  • Peter Buxtun||

    Conspiracies never never happen

  • jam2||

    Rather;
    It seems to be more of a scattered (dare i say shotgun)approach to ideological promotion.
    yes there is the "Shut down Free Speech" aspect of controlling the intertubes.
    There is also:
    *Currency Value - and Constitutional Authority are Extremist Views.
    *Southern Poverty Law Center - and similar agenda driven groups are voices of Reason
    *Questioning the Federal Reserve is the purview of Extremist Militia Groups
    * Linking "conservative" to any fringe group or organization (that 99.9999% haven't even heard of)is rational thinking...
    *the list is endless and non-sequitur.
    Ultimately This Ideology has taken the PT Barnum Approach....
    Their contempt for us knows no limits.

  • jam2||

    and less and less people are going to the circus...

  • jester||

    Or the Manson clan might have adopted a song from the Beatles into its weltanschauung. Or John Lennon might have become a target himself.

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    Reminds me of Chris Rock, ca. 2000, on the Columbine massacre:

    "'Was it the music? What were they listening to?' What was Hitler listening to??? What was in his CD case???"

  • smartass sob||

    What was Hitler listening to??? What was in his CD case???"

    Richard Wagner - or so I've often heard.

  • ||

    I'm sure he was listening to "Ride of the Valkyries" the whole time.

  • ||

    I knew a girl once who had an enormous weltanschauung, but certainly she was no lady.

  • Chinny Chin Chin||

    What was her limit for schnitzenruben?

  • Sheriff Bart||

    Fifteen, I think.

  • Spur||

    There isn't much else going on unless you are captivated by events in Juba, everyone is in a tizzy and you have to say something, anything
    - if you want to see real horrendous fact free pontificating check out The Guardian over in the UK featuring a very sad confused American pundit:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm.....s-loughner

    Even the url suffix is biased...

    As a principled libertarian I really don't like the whole Tea Party thingy and Palin is abhorrent but something tells me if Chomsky had walked into the Pentagon and killed 6 Generals shouting quotes from Horkheimer the media would blame the Tea Party and right wing over-the-top rhetoric stuff and stuff.

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    if Chomsky had walked into the Pentagon and killed 6 Generals shouting quotes from Horkheimer the media would blame the Tea Party and right wing over-the-top rhetoric stuff and stuff.

    Well that's how it works. Sarah Palin uses Right Wing Vitriol(tm) to create an Atmosphere of Hate(tm) that when inhaled, causes everyone to lose moral agency and start murdering her political opponents.

  • Rather ||

    Ridiculous Masturbatin' Pete! Sarah Palin's power lies in her Magical Tits™

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    inb4 Newcular Titties

  • Fatty Bolger||

    If the two ever combine, we could be looking at an end-of-the-world scenario.

    Gingrich/Palin 2012... Nuewcular/Magical Titties... end of the Mayan calendar... it's all so clear now...

  • George Bush ||

    It's spelled "nucular" cretin

  • ||

    HAHA!

    That's a joke, everyone.

  • Rather||

  • fuck off||

  • ||

    FEEEEEEEED MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

  • Fuck off ||

    heller

  • jester||

    Tomasky's absurd screed should win a prize for douchebaggery.

  • Bart||

    Remember last year when some idiot Ron Paul volunteers held someone on the ground and that got so much press?

    This was not too long after some leftists had assaulted a man and a woman leaving a Republican dinner and broken her leg and beaten him and that got much less press.

  • ||

    [...] some idiot *Rand* Paul volunteers [...]

    FTFY

  • WhereYou'reWrong||

    Meanwhile, while they try and put together a web of influence that, I am sure, will eventually lead back to the Koch brothers, they ignore his having been to a previous citizen forum with Giffords back in 2007 when he was reportedly angered by her answer to his nonsensical question -- might his direct experience with her have been more important than his supposed reading materials? (Aside from his having been so freaking bugnutty that voices from his corn flakes could have set him off that morning.)

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    If the conventional wisdom becomes that Loughner, a Republican-judge-murdering, flag-burning, liberal atheist 9/11 Truther, was a conservative or libertarian, I'm giving up. I will an hero, because I don't want to live in a world with this kind of insanity.

  • Death Panel||

    Sign here____________

  • Barack Obama||

    Hah hah, funny joke, very funny! Yes, a joke! Everybody laugh now!

  • fuck off ||

    heller

  • Pissed Off||

    Blogwhore

  • fuck off||

    Little "helle" is "Pissed Off". Awww, I'm sorry

  • fuck off||

    I left a present for you baby
    http://rctlfy.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/1857/

  • ||

    What's funny is I'm not the one who replied to her comments here. Retarded schitzo bitch

  • Fuck off Heller||

    What's funnier is Heller made another grammar error and is trying to pass it off as the bogeyman

  • Ray Ray||

    Yeah, okay, but there really are extreme right wingers who have very similar beliefs. I started reading some of the nonsense he said and all I could think it was not far off from the shit some crazy cousin of mine who has a problem with Freemason conspiracies and the New World Order... This guy seriously had some extreme right wing beliefs. I'm not gonna pretend it's not true because the liberal media sucks.

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    "extreme right-wing" != Sarah Palin/Tea Party/GOP/Limbaugh/Beck/Paul/Reason/Lew Rockwell

    I'm not afraid of this truth. If this guy was indeed a Stormfront/Neo-Nazi type, so be it. That has nothing to do with Palin or the conservative/libertarian mainstreams, no matter what the left and the media would have us believe.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    NWO conspiracists are not limited to the extreme right wing. Far from it. Just look at the G8 and G20 protests.

  • hmm ||

    I've seen a lot more "OMG MASONS!!! NWO!!" from the left. I do know one bible thumper (born again) who follows proclaims freemasonry offers a false salvation and that they are devil worshipers. Guess he'd be right-wing. But most in that vein seem to be more lefty to me. Especially if you weave them in with 9/11 truthers.

  • Random Dude||

    True that.

    Just check out some of the zerohedge commenters if you want to get a glimpse of what a philosophy based almost exclusively on conspiracy theories looks like. From my observations, most of the conspiracy guys are not anything that could be classified as "right wing," but a lot of them would fit in comfortably with the anti-capitalist, "anarchist," black-clothes wearing G8 protestors that stream out endlessly from American universities these days. Most of the ones I know classify themselves as "independent."

    That being said, I do know right-wingers that are both anti-NWO fanatics and 9/11 truthers, but I think a person would be very hard pressed to find even 5% of people who would call themselves "Tea Partiers" or "conservatives" or even "libertarians" that hold those beliefs. (I think the Venn diagram between those people and Alex Jones listeners probably looks something like a circle....)

    The media's just trying to use any possible way to tamp down political fervor now that a certain portion of the electorate might actually be serious about real freedom.

  • Plate-O||

    I'm thinking his politics are more along the lines of Gen. Ripper's from Dr. Strangelove.

  • Karma W||

    There comes a point when extreme right wing and extreme left wing become so extreme they circle around to meet one another at a predetermined spot called "Total Insanity".

  • Warty||

    The news is going to be too stupid to pay attention to for quite a while. So here's a kitty.

  • ||

    is the kitty getting on the deck or falling off?

  • Beezard||

    I take umbrage at the blatant liberal bias contained in that series of pictures. Kitty could have pulled himself up by the bootstraps, if he hadn't been subject to inverse incentives to keep falling down.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    That kitty represents how the level of discourse in this country is falling to a depth that cannot be sustained!* Also, adorable!

    * Martin Frost

  • ||

    Thank you for that.

    Yes, let's try that: ignore the news.

  • hmm ||

  • ||

    Kitty wouldn'thave fallen if not for the vitiolic right-wing media.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    I'm pretty sure Sarah Palin pushed it off the chair in between frames.

  • ||

    I thought it was the left-wing media?

  • Beezard||

    I submit a more positive kitty motif. The tide lifts all pussies.

  • Poppin' Caps lock||

    This NYT article was never meant to be informative.

  • hmm representing PBJ Allaince||

    murderous nut-sandwich Jared Loughner.

    We at PBJA would appreciate a retraction or clarification. Nut based sandwiches are an American staple and have murdered no one. Any deaths due to allergens are purely coincidental and truly regrettable, but such losses are acceptable in the pursuit of such delicious noms.

  • Poppin' Caps lock||

    I do have to give Mr. Welch credit for the verbal innovation of "nut-sandwich". It entered my vocabulary shortly after I first read it.

  • ||

  • KPres||

    While perusing the NY Times, painful as it was, I came accross this little blurb:

    ------------------------------
    Keywords most frequently searched by NYTimes.com readers.

    modern love
    carlos castro
    law school
    sarah palin
    krugman
    facebook
    january 2, 2011
    china
    birds
    crossword
    ------------------------------

    Sarah Palin comes in at #4. Gabrielle Giffords is nowhere to be found. Basically, this whole thing means nothing to them except insofar as it can be linked to Sarah Palin.

    There really aren't words to describe how absolutely bonkers these people are.

  • ||

    modern love

    And who knew they were such Bowie fans?

  • Rock Action ||

    Ahhh...the NYT readers. Turning to Bowie for meaning in a time of crisis. Works well, I hear.

  • Tony||

    Why so defensive? Does reason propagate radicalism that might conceivably lead to some acting out?

  • hmm ||

    Only against stupid people. "Be afraid, be very afraid."

    Really, you're making it too easy here.

  • Rather||

    Tony, say it ain't so

  • Tony||

    The issue isn't that he's a nutcase. That's obvious. The issue is how many people watching FOX News are nutcases?

  • hmm ||

    Statistically I'm going to say more watching FOX are nuts. Since the viewership for FOX is usually 2-3 times that of the other news stations. This is assuming we are comparing cable news networks.

  • Tony||

    Of course. It is rather disturbing that so many people watch radical antigovernment propaganda, and curious that they keep watching when it's pro-government propaganda (when there's a Republican president).

  • hmm ||

    radical!!!!!

    You mean like the few that watch MSNC? When they had people calling Bush Hitler and getting shivers up legs over Presidential speeches just months later.

    Perspective will do wonders for observations. Especially when that perspective is not of the descending colon.

  • Tony||

    Perspective means applying an equal time standard to every comparable alternative when discussing something? If what MSNBC does is bad, that does not absolve FOX of anything. And I happen to think the two stations have different standards when it comes to applying facts to rhetoric.

  • hmm ||

    Your perspective, not that of the station. They are making money and appealing to an audience.

    If you think NBC has higher standards than anyone else you're fooling yourself. At one time CNN tried, and it didn't workout all that well. Like I said, your perspective relative to that you are proclaiming to observe is what is fucked up. As you clear show in the above post with the "I happen to think" comment.

  • Tony||

    Maybe. All I can do is check reliable sources. Maybe those sources aren't reliable, and are in fact part of the vast leftwing conspiracy to oppress us all.

  • hmm ||

    Oddly it isn't a conspiracy. It's business and politics.

    Of course, playing the victim of conspiracy instead of actually addressing the issue is a much easier way to dismiss any discourse on the subject. It's almost as good as screaming racist.

  • Tony||

    You're right about it being business. In light of your reminder about the two stations' relative ratings, it would seem NBC is in the wrong business.

  • hmm ||

    Or they are mismanaged, hence the reason GE fire saled that turd to get it off the books.

    You see there's an interesting thing about markets whether you like them or not. They act a lot like guns. They work as a great equalizer, when they are working and not interfered with (both) everyone is forced to play the same game on the same field by the same rules. It's when government steps in that it all goes to shit.

    NBC isn't in the wrong business, it is just mismanaged.

  • hmm ||

    Is CNN guilty? If so how do you explain Beck almost catching Nancy Grace? Do you think it was a smart business decision for CNN to not try and keep a guy who now pulls close to 3m viewers pre 5pm? From a numbers stand point that looks like a pretty big fuckup.

  • ||

    Is that the biological colon or the linguistical colon? Cause if it's the latter you oould be accused being a follower of David Wynn Miller.

  • Rather||

    Tony in truth a nutcase can get a message to kill by unraveling a toilet paper roll.

  • Tony||

    Yeah, but let's not pretend that speech has no effect on action when it's convenient to do so.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Yeah, but let's not pretend that speech has no effect on action when it's convenient to do so.

    Yeah. It's much more fun to pretend that speech has an effect on action when it's convenient to do so. Right, Tony?

  • Tony||

    I dunno. Yet for every 50 decent posts on these articles there's some dick expressing sympathy for the killer. Radical antigovernment rhetoric won't affect everyone. It doesn't need to, it's still dangerous.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    "Radical antigovernment rhetoric won't affect everyone. It doesn't need to, it's still dangerous."

    You'd love to leave out the word "radical", wouldn't you?

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    Did anyone ever teach you about coincidence and causality?

    Look, if you want to blame the fact that this "quite liberal" atheist 9/11 Truther murdered people on stuff that Sarah Palin said, you're welcome to present all the evidence you like. I'll listen to it. But the key word here is "evidence," not "speculation."

  • Rather||

    "Look, if you want to blame the fact that this "quite liberal" atheist 9/11 Truther murdered people on stuff that Sarah Palin said, you're welcome to present all the evidence you like."

    Neither of you have it right. The point is I am not responsible for the action's of another man-even if I said I'd like to kill that fucker Heller, and one of you read it as a message to kill that fucker.

  • Tony||

    The point is I am not responsible for the action's of another man-even if I said I'd like to kill that fucker Heller, and one of you read it as a message to kill that fucker.

    How can that be true? Why is speech worth protecting if it doesn't affect anything? It can't be that it only affects things positively.

  • Rather||

    Speech can harm but it is worth protecting because it is good too. Harmful speech is not the same for you, as it is for me, and any attempt to decide a standard would threaten all speech. Heller is a classic example why I don't believe in banning ANY speech; yes he's a pain in the ass who follows my every comment to make an imbecilic remark but ultimately what he does says more about him than the nonsense he replies with-he's a fucking child.

    Tony as a gay man I would think you would innately understand the importance of uncensored speech. Gay people were not always free to mention a same sex-partner without fear of losing a job, a friend, or even their very lives.

  • Tony||

    It's all speculation at this point. I notice the Drudge-iverse is being quite quick to label him a leftwinger.

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    Tony, please take your "It's-all-speculation-at-this-point" stuff over to the Daily Kos, NY Times, DU, etc. It is needed there; it is not needed here.

    Rather: you're correct, but we shouldn't even be at that point. I'm not pointing fingers. But if the left wants to play the which-team-is-this-guy-closer-to? game, I can play by those rules. The answer is "Team Blue."

  • Rather||

    My vote is Team Crazy

  • Ray Pew||

    Yeah, but let's not pretend that speech has no effect on action when it's convenient to do so.

    Speech most definitely does affect individual action. It is through speech that individuals access information regarding the world and ideas.

    How this cumulative affect of speech has on any individual can't be predicted though. For some it may be positive; for others, negative.

    Rights don't guarantee a positive outcome, they merely enable one to control one's own self-determination.

  • Karma W||

    Ahhhh!!! I've been holing up on Facebook reading and debating the looniness of the last few days. Reading here is heavenly. All this logic feels like I'm breaking for air after an extended time under water.

  • Slut Bunwalla||

    "Yeah, but let's not pretend that speech has no effect on action when it's convenient to do so."

    So the Beatles were absolutely culpable for the actions of the Manson family, right?

  • ||

    Pretty fucking sure this is what's known as a "bad-faith argument", Chony...

  • hmm ||

    You are a blog whore of epic proportions.

  • Rather||

    Hmm, are you trying to get in my crosshairs?

  • hmm ||

    Callin' it like I see it.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Is that a euphemism for oral sex?

  • hmm ||

    Well if that's the case I'm there. I'm always up for gettin' a hummer.

  • Rather||

    Mrs.Hmm would like me-we can stay in bed while you make us breakfast

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Mrs.Hmm would like me-we can stay in bed

    Maybe you can do each other's nails.

  • Rather||

    No silly! She can braid my hair, and we can talk about boys.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Tony, if anyone commits violence based on mere words, then we can toss personal responsibility out the window.

  • Fred||

    Hegel blogged an interesting thought on this tragedy and f/u media coverage:

    Man’s labor itself becomes entirely mechanical, belonging to a many-sided determinacy. But the more abstract [his labor] becomes, the more he himself is mere abstract activity. And consequently he is in a position to withdraw himself from labor and to substitute for his own activity that of external nature. He needs mere motion, and this he finds in external nature. In other words, pure motion is precisely the relation of the abstract forms of space and time – the abstract external activity, the machine.

    Translated: Teabaggers

    I guess tweeting really isn't his thing...

  • TheCheeseStandsAlone||

    This is a phenomenon of two
    "Americas":

    1) "Jesusland", i.e., most of the Midwest, obsessed with "God, Guns,
    and Government"...

    2) "The United States of Canada",
    i.e., the blue-state East-Coast/
    West-Coast corridors...

    The issue is entirely provincial:

    Kennedy assassination (Dallas),
    Randy Weaver (Idaho), Waco (David
    Koresh), Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma),
    Fort Hood shooting (Texas), Arizona
    (Jared Loughner)...

  • Reality||

    Which, ironically, makes Megyn Kelly much more dangerous than Bill Ayers.

  • TheCheeseMakesNoSense||

    ^

  • TheCheeseStandsAlone||

    The Cheese never makes sense
    to the uninitiated...

    Add Ted Kaczynski(Montana) to
    the list...

  • Bucky||

    Son of Sam?

  • paloma||

    Bobby Kennedy was shot in LA.

    Harvey Milk was shot in San Francisco, probably because of the huge gun culture.

    John Lennon shot outside his home in NYC.

  • paloma||

    Malcolm X assasinated in NYC.

    And Tupac got shot right on the Vegas strip.

  • Spur||

    I think the real reason the NYT is acting all weird on this one is cause they are paranoid someone will notice how close To,my Freidman's logic is to that of Jared Nut Sandwich.

    "China is becoming greener by the day, everyone wants to be green, therefore China is the Greenist..."

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    More than ever, America's political climate reminds me of a teenage son screaming at his Mom because she won't let him borrow the Lexus hybrid SUV for his big date with the half-Korean cheerleading captain. Dad isn't part of this fight because he's still at his software consulting job, and the family's fourteen-year-old daughter is buying a Ramones t-shirt at Hot Topic. Meanwhile, the Korean family down the block is disappointed because their son got rejected by Harvard and has to settle for Brown. What to do?

  • GILMORE||

    Dude, come on... Brown *sucks*

    Unless we scored Princeton as a backup, I think we'd go back to Korea.

  • ||

    +1 for the callback.

  • Fatty Bolger||

  • hmm ||

    Next to be banned. "Worst person in the world."

  • jester||

    Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel. Why don't you bring legislation to relegalize the duel and challenge Sarah to a duel. Put the honorable in Honorable Brady. Be a man!

  • ||

    That kind of speech is placing all of us in danger of becoming stupider just from reading it.

  • GILMORE||

    "we're saved!"

  • Jeffersonian||

    The Stoopid hit warp five with the introduction of that bill.

  • Karma W||

    Guns don't kill people! Crosshairs Maps kill people!

    Er...

  • Masturbatin' Pete||

    Then Palin is safe, because her symbols were crop marks.

    Also, if Palin was telling would-be assassins to use "crosshairs," then this guy is shitty at following directions. His gun had only iron sights, not a scope with a reticle, and I seriously doubt that he aimed down them.

  • liu||

    Next to be banned. "Worst person in the world."
    reply to this Aaron Burr killed Alexander Hamilton in a duel. Why don't you bring legislation to relegalize the duel and challenge Sarah to a duel. Put the honorable in Honorable Brady. Be a man!

  • fuck off||

  • Charles Novins||

    The whole thing has turned into a wild circus of idiocy. What actually happened is a nut-job shot some people. Period. The media's response: Guns did it. Too much vitriol in politics did it. "Crosshairs" on Sarah Palin's site did it. Any publication that mirrored the nut-job's views did it. Any publication sharing *some* of his views did it. Hell, Fox News did it. Next: Get ready for Twinkies, bad toilet training, layoffs, We're All To Blame, and eventually, the CIA. Wait! Hmmmmmm. The CIA...

  • nekoxgirl||

    You left off marijuana.

  • Karma W||

    This just in, giant meteor targets earth. Sarah Palin to blame.

  • ||

    When the story originally broke there was mention of him wearing a black trench coat. Trench coats are banned at our local public schools and I'm guessing that won't change anytime soon. You know who would look sexy in a black trench coat? Sarah Palin!

  • nathan kale||

    tea patsies: always bitter, always unfunny,
    and for the last 36 hours increasingly desperate sounding. i've never seen
    such grotesque textual squirming.
    pack it in, creeps. your "movement" is finished---
    down the crapper with all of you....

  • ||

    always bitter, always unfunny,

    Project much?

  • Fatty Bolger||

    The irony, it burns, it burns...

  • ||

    America is supposedly the bastion of freedom, free speech etc. But looked what happened after 9/11 and all the draconian laws that were implemented. A nutter shoots a single politician (and why are politicians seen has being better as average citizens anyway) and already people like Tony want to imply how dangerous free speech can be.

    Heaven forbid a nuclear bomb went off somewhere in the USA, it would probably make your country look libertarian in comparison to North Korea.

  • ||

    It is the beneful influence of Europe. The Dark Night of Fascism is always falling on America and landing on Europe. Sadly, America has more than a few toadies like Tony who want to make it into Europe.

  • ||

    Heaven forbid a nuclear bomb went off somewhere in the USA, it would probably make North Koren look libertarian in comparison to your country.

  • alan||

    Sadly, you are right on the mark.

  • Mensan||

    "...North Koren..."

    Strike Two! Do you want to go for the turkey?

  • ||

    http://spectator.org/blog/2011.....-nyt-on-ft

    NYT after the Fort Hood shootings and now. It is sickening. These people really are fascists. Sorry Godwin, sometimes the moniker fits.

  • nekoxgirl||

    Anything to fit their goal of smearing people that don't vote for them.

  • Chad||

    Yes, the far far far left and the far right start to blur when you are talking about the insane.

    However, the proper response by reasonable political parties is to declare that allusion an innuendo related to assassination is absolutely forbidden by any of their members, and anyone who defies such an edict will be immediately impeached by his or her own fellows, and booted from the party forever.

  • Mr. FIFY||

    Note how many "far"s Chad used the first time, as opposed to the second...

  • ||

    You probably saw this, but it is pretty friggin weird. Do not know what to make of it.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/74967.html

  • Alan Vanneman||

    Yeah, yeah, left-wing moralizing is total bullshit, but all the gun-waving from Sarah and the Tea Party gang looks a little lame right about now. "Reload," huh? Especially since we've learned from her video that Sarah can't load a rifle. She has to have her daddy do it for her. Because she's a girl? Just askin'.

  • ||

    It looks lame now but not before? Why? You are such a disengenuous twit Vannemen. You will say that the left-wing moralizing is bullshit. But then in the next breath say how it makes the right look lame.

    You really are the worst commenter on here.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    I think you made a spelling error. It's twat, not twit.

  • Alan Vanneman||

    It did look lame before. Now it looks lamer.

  • Johnny Longtorso||

    Palin made him shoot = Palin made people object to Obamacare. Nobody can be responsible for their own actions? Oppose Obamacare? You're just following orders from someone ordering hits on Congressmen.

    Both you and Loughner are crazies just doing as you're told.

  • ||

    "(And no, he has never subscribed to Reason. )"
    I am proud to say that Reason commenters*, including but not limited to the lunatics, tin foil hat wearers, divorced from reality, left wing wackos, and right wingnuts*, would never resort to violence - and would merely murder...o oh, I mean demolish...hmmm, thats kind of bad too...OK, refute their opponents arguements with logic and cool reason.

    * (but I repeat myself)

  • ||

    Reason commenters*, including but not limited to the lunatics, tin foil hat wearers, divorced from reality, left wing wackos, and right wingnuts*,

    The * is referring to the whole group of "free" thinkers, not just the right wingnuts. And by free thinkers, I mean unconstrained by gravity, speed of light, logic, mathematics, the sphereiness of the planet earth, or indeed any celestical body.
    Out commenters may be nuts, but by God, or Jupitor, or Thor (or any Marvel superhero, but not those corportist DC homophoic superheros) they are good people, who would seldom put kittens in microwaves.

  • ||

    From that Fox report in Matt's update: No direct connection, but strong suspicion is being direceted at American Renaissance, an organization that Loughner mentioned in some of his internet postings

    Anyone know where these "internet postings" are? I thought I'd seen all the Loughner stuff we knew about at this point (the YouTube page, the MySpace screencaps), but I haven't seen anything with references to American Renaissance.

  • Barely Suppressed Rage||

    If you go shoot, kill and maim a bunch of people randomly, including a 79 year-old grandma and a 9 year-old girl, because of something somebody said on TV or on the radio, then you're a fucking nut bag, period. It doesn't matter what the TV or radio personality said; the shooter is responsible for his own actions. He's not a remote-controlled automaton.

  • Virginia||

    No better way to full stop than to quote the SPLC.

  • ||

    Virginia,

    Kid, if you could read beyond four-letter words (the typical Randian-Koch means of communication), you would realize that the Southern Poverty Law Center is actually supporting the Conservatives and Paulites on this one.

    The Southern Poverty Law Center does NOT think you kids are to blame for the shooter in Arizona.

    I know, I know. You've reread the piece and you're upset at your foolishness. Do what the Koch brothers' disciple does and beat your child. You'll feel better.

  • cynical||

    Does anyone, hearing the usual suspects just desperate to believe that this was a right wing attack, feel reminded of skinheads waiting for the start of the race war? "The [edit: slaves] finally done it, Jed! Now everyone will get behind our campaign of mass murder!"

    Newsflash, dipshits -- a hundred people with Sarah Palin tramp stamps could go on back-to-back killing sprees, and you still won't be justified in lynching the guy next door that listens to Rush.

  • Jeffersonian||

    It's all about establishing the association, specious or not, setting up the narrative.

  • Fiscal Meth||

    "...currency not backed by a gold or silver standard is worthless is a hallmark[position] of the far right and the militia movement, said Mark Potok, who directs research on hate groups for the Southern Poverty Law Center."

    How much longer until hatred of the Federal Reserve Bank is considered an official hate crime?

  • ||

    Matt,

    Fox News ran this angle out...and then ran for the hills when the anti-Semitic angle blew up in Roger Ailes's face.

    Fox News is your channel, son.

    Besides, your post here disappoints the reader. We expect more F-bombs from you in each and every post. If you're not F-bombing every other sentence, you're not serving the Koch brothers properly.

    In the name of Sister Sarah up in Alaska, man up and start F-bombing. That's why you get the big money.

  • fancylad||

    Insomniacs, take two Mark posts, and sleep tight.

  • ||

    It's official: Jared Loughner is a tool.http://tinyurl.com/6xmg9vc

  • ||

    American Renaissance is on line, and they provide several years by month. Many articles about Palin. She was the cover story 31 page article, Nov 2008. An unemployed dropout student probably would not subscribe to it.
    It's diffently not a liberal mag. It's White's Only.

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