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Reason.tv: UPS vs. FEDEX—Ultimate Whiteboard Remix
You may have heard the UPS is in quite the fight with FEDEX. Though both are package-delivery companies, they're governed by totally different federal labor rules. As a result, UPS's workforce is much more heavily unionized than FEDEX's—and more than twice as expensive.
So now UPS is trying to get FEDEX reclassified under federal law as a way of screwing a competitor. That's horrendous, but it also makes a sick kind of business sense. And it also reveals the real villain: A government that is big enough to absolutely, positively guarantee it can screw any business. Overnight.
"UPS Vs. FEDEX" was produced by Meredith Bragg and Nick Gillespie (who also hosts). Approximately two minutes long.
This video is based on "Using Unions as Weapons," by Veronique de Rugy, which appeared in the October 2009 print edition of Reason.
Go here for downloadable versions. This video is also available at Reason.tv's YouTube channel. Subscribe now.
|11.10.09 @ 5:20PM|#
Soooo....why haven't you switched to UPS then...if in your opinion their higher prices offset Fedex's poorer service? Usually when you pay less you receive something less. It's only govt that promises you'll pay less and receive more. Lol.
AndyK|11.11.09 @ 12:32PM|#
Hmm... As a small business owner I use both depending on which my customers prefer. I have noticed neither poorer service from Fedex or receiving something less. I however did work for a mostly unionized company in California and quickly moved back to the south because of the amount of business the union lost for the company through strikes. This effected both my compensation and stability.
|11.10.09 @ 10:44AM|#
A few years ago FedEx backed a similar law that would have reclassified UPS under the same federal labor rules as FedEx. I call double foul on UPS.
|11.10.09 @ 6:04PM|#
Meanwhile, Obama - functioning like a socialist holy trinity comprising looter-in-chief, Head Cannibal and Dictator of Sacrifice -- is busy drafting up directive 10-289....
Walt|11.10.09 @ 10:51AM|#
I worked for years in shipping/receiving at a large store and got great service from both companies but the FedEx drivers seemed happier.
|11.11.09 @ 10:23AM|#
I do agree with you, FedEx guys always are on time and happy while UPS always in hurry and most of them SMELL LOL I HAVE UNIONS AND BIG GOV!!!
|11.10.09 @ 10:53AM|#
Yet, ironically, I get far better service from UPS than FedX.
So I guess you would be pretty unhappy with both poorer service and higher prices from FedEx?
FedEx may well move packages primarily by airplane but they deliver them by truck, just like UPS.
|11.10.09 @ 11:00AM|#
Now if FedEx would actually deliver packages by precision air drops, they would get my business every time.
|11.18.09 @ 3:29PM|#
I'm picturing a link on their web page to something that looks like the missile's or aircraft's cameras as the payload nears it's destination.
I would pay for that!
|11.10.09 @ 10:55AM|#
I used to be a seller in e-commerce, and in my time of dealing with both of them, I had much better experience with FedEx--especially when it came to damaged merchandise. UPS would flatly deny damaging any equipment (they once denied anything happened to a computer server I sold that was delivered with water pouring out of it and dead fish inside of it. I don't even want to know how that can happen).
However, when it comes to their drivers, I prefer UPS drivers to FedEx drivers.
More dark meat.
MattXIV|11.10.09 @ 12:00PM|#
Similar to my experiences - UPS has better prices but occasionally I'd end up with packages that looked like they lost a bar fight.
|11.11.09 @ 10:26AM|#
It is true I think UPS has better prices, but if you don't want your stuff lost go FedEx I got my immigration papers lost by UPS and there I was almost elegal bcoz my papers never got to them :(
|11.10.09 @ 11:02AM|#
How long before robots are delivering everything? It can't be that much longer.
|11.10.09 @ 11:21AM|#
Probably around the same time that the pool cleaning robots are sexy enough to sleep with housewives.
jesse|11.10.09 @ 11:34AM|#
thats not too far off, im already cheating on my wife with my robovac, and my answering machine
|11.10.09 @ 11:44AM|#
The robovac I can understand; their delightfully pooched-out succulence is hard to resist. But the answering machine? I see you like to get funky, don't you?
I know what you mean though. I've got a coffeemaker with some truly sexy curves. I just haven't had the courage to ask her out yet, and I don't want to ruin our morning relationship.
Tim Cavanaugh|11.10.09 @ 12:00PM|#
I know Nick Gillespie and he's lefthanded. The person in this video is an impostor.
MWG|11.10.09 @ 4:14PM|#
Plus horrible at flailing his arms about to imitate the guy in the real commercial.
ev|11.10.09 @ 12:02PM|#
Off topic but relevant to my interests:
The Postal Service, the band, got in a tizzy with USPS because of their name. USPS says that they can use The Postal Service's songs in ads; in return they will sell the band's albums on its website. Everyone's a winner I guess.
NOW. UPS uses Postal Service songs in its ads, which is featured in this clip. Is this just a weird coincidence or a crazy conspiracy?
And how did reason get the rights to the song? It's edited/looped; does that mean you don't have to pay for it?
"Did you ever see that scene in Scanners where the dude's head blows up?"
|11.10.09 @ 12:07PM|#
Apropos of UPS's shady behavior:
Second refrain from a common sign posted in restrooms of old buildings with shaky plumbing, "If it's brown, flush it down."
|11.10.09 @ 12:09PM|#
(Note: Also seen at sites where conservation is important, such as park facilities)
I, Kahn O'Clast|11.10.09 @ 1:24PM|#
I may have it wrong, but I am under the impression that FedEx uses more "contractors" as part of their labor pool than UPS does. This way they can more easily beef up (with higher cost contractors) during high season (Xmas) and pare back down later. So the labor costs might not (on average) be quite as different. Of course, no Union is going to support the use of temp labor on a seasonal basis.
highnumber|11.10.09 @ 1:26PM|#
Pardon me if the video sheds more light on this, as I am unable to view it right now, but as I read the article it sounds like UPS is really trying to eliminate a loophole that FedEx somehow falls through. Not so much like they are rent seeking as they are trying to undo the legal advantage that was granted to FedEx.
Mango Punch|11.10.09 @ 1:38PM|#
To us Reasonoids, the loophole is should be the
status quo. There should not be laws that treate these
different similar industries differently.
Mango Punch|11.10.09 @ 1:40PM|#
we're also by default against a lot of pro-union laws
and UPS is trying to add costs to its competitor, rather than just fighting for the same treatment (which as an earlier poster wrote without giving us a link, FedEx apparently tried to pre-empt this travesty and give UPS the same legal treatment as it has)
highnumber|11.10.09 @ 1:59PM|#
In this case, the law is anti union. Pro freedom does not equal supporting laws that exist to curtail workers rights.
And, anyway, if your competitor is rent seeking, rather than lobbying to end the unfair granted them by the gov't, you would have them seek the same unfair advantage? Not very fair to any new players entering the industry. Not very fair to the smaller players who can't afford to lobby.
randomgermandude|11.10.09 @ 5:38PM|#
Well there should be neither pro- nor anti-union laws. Eliminating pro-union laws does not equal curtailing workers rights.
|11.10.09 @ 2:56PM|#
I remember the last time there was a strike at UPS, about ten years ago. Our morning drop-off guy was in the union, the evening pick-up guy was not. For a couple weeks there, the evening guy filled in for the AM guy (who was busy striking) and made hella scratch on overtime. The union guy HATED him for that. He would actually bad mouth him to us...weird considering we were customers.
BTW, the Teamsters say that "UPS" stands for "UnderPaid Slaves." What a bunch of criers. Can you imagine how retarded e-commerce would have been with full-on Teamsters-monopoly trucking? I'm sure glad the Kennedy clan had that vendetta thing for Jimmy Hoffa.
|11.10.09 @ 3:31PM|#
Let's say you're a politician running for president of the united states. Would it make a difference if every singleunion member voted for or against you? In the grand scheme of things, unions are non-factors.
Who cares and why do politicians who don't care about anything but the next election give them so much consideration?
|11.10.09 @ 4:28PM|#
Reagan won 49 states in 1984. This was after he fired the Air Traffic Controllers. You don't need unions to win an election.
Ratko|11.21.09 @ 2:26AM|#
You're right, Nick, he did. That's a good point, by the way. They aren't needed to win.
For that matter they aren't needed at all. Their sole purpose for existing appears to be to force non competitive workers down American industry's throat at phenomenally high prices. What they do amounts to little more than seizing the means of production.
If capitalism was an eagle, then unions would be a Bolshevik anchor chained around it's neck.
And that's ultimately not good for anyone. It's not uncommon for these geniuses who thought they had it made as union members to be left bawling after they've destroyed their entire industries or ran them out of the country.
Competition breeds healthy and prosperous industries, workforces, countries, economies and societies, nothing else does. Not what sandbaggers and entitlement hunters want to hear, but the facts nonetheless.
|11.10.09 @ 3:33PM|#
The biggest joke is that UPS is not trying to make its product and service better but trying to srew its competition.
|11.10.09 @ 3:35PM|#
The members themselves are pointless as nearly vote the other party but the money the bosses take in and spend on dems is what they want. They take money from all the union members and use it to help the party that only half or better vote for, that is the real crime with unions.
****
William Walsh|11.10.09 @ 3:31PM|#
Let's say you're a politician running for president of the united
states. Would it make a difference if every singleunion member
voted for or against you? In the grand scheme of things, unions
are non-factors.
Who cares and why do politicians who don't care about anything but the next election give them so much consideration?
some guy|11.10.09 @ 3:40PM|#
My spouse worked at UPS for 4 years. The lot of their drivers are awful, awful people. The union environment has conditioned them to hate their jobs, which for someone who doesn't even have to graduate from HS, is the highest paying job they'll ever have. They start at $55K.
|11.10.09 @ 4:29PM|#
anyone with a little bit of knowledge would know that the railway act was put in place when all packages were sent by rail and a shutdown would hurt America. Fedex`is abusing this privilege and law. Once they entered package delivery they ended their position. Government isn't the problem. It's complete bull to use this for government bashing.
pumpkinkid|11.10.09 @ 4:47PM|#
Nope...it should end when Fedex [EXPRESS] operates like UPS [Airlines]or when UPS [Airlines] builds a network like Fedex [EXPRESS].
Keeping Delta My Delta|11.10.09 @ 5:06PM|#
Well this is essentially the same BS that the IAM is pulling with Delta Air Lines. Under the current rules that were set by the National Railroad Act, the IAM knows that they will lose the representation if the entire Delta workforce votes as one. So now the IAM is trying to get the NMB to do is to change the rules so that only a portion of the workforce is allowed to vote at a time. Thus, increasing their chances in keeping/gaining new members from Delta's "Below the Wing" workforce (CSA's, Ramp and baggage handlers).
turbo|11.10.09 @ 5:57PM|#
Gotta love the union mentality: screw the company and the customers, as long as we get ours!
Yeah, let's unionize the entire overnight delivery business. Why? Because it worked so well in the auto business!! Maybe in 15 years we'll get to bail out both companies so their union workers can avoid facing reality and keep the contributions flowing to liberal Democrats.
Awesome.
|11.10.09 @ 7:40PM|#
Let's see - how did that work out for the auto unions? The unions simply make for unsustainable business. A tip - use FEDEX when you really really need to get it there on time.
Steve|11.10.09 @ 8:16PM|#
Shouldn't the author be blaming unions rather than "big government"? It wouldn't be the government shutting down Fedex overnight, it would be the unions that show up as a result.
It isn't the government's fault that unions in the US are a far cry from what they were originally intended to be. (Or is it?)
|11.10.09 @ 9:24PM|#
Fedex Ground are independent contractors - to a point. Fedex bought a ground trucking company already in existence and re-named it Fedex Ground. Also Fedex keeps all divisions separate - Fedex Express is independent of Fedex Ground is independent of Fedex Office. Hence if Fedex Office gives Fedex Ground a poorly wrapped package, and it breaks, or it is weighed improperly, that branch of Fedex Office has to deal with cost or damage. Fedex Express drivers are paid hourly as employees of Fedex. Yet, while treating drivers as indie contractors, Fedex Ground demands they follow many rules and adhere to a list of duties and behaviors that limits their Independence to a point where they can lose their routes quite easily. So that leaves you with UPS drivers who deliver ALL UPS deliveries, Ground, 3 day, 2 day Express. But Fedex Ground guys do not. So UPS probably has less people on the ground than Fedex because the brown trucks contain more variety of deliveries. I have noticed UPS guys more bland in their behavior for they are corporate boys, and Fedex Ground guys are more like cowboys. There is a lot more going on in this dynamic too, so I have found this video to be a rather simplistic analysis of the situation, while still remaining cute.
Ratko|11.21.09 @ 1:24AM|#
I was one of those "indie contractors" you mentioned. (I'm a biker, but people call me "Cowboy." Bet you can't do that twice!).
From my perspective your general analysis appears accurate.
Concerning the video, it was simplistic, a positive quality. It covered in sufficient detail what it needed to, especially if the watcher hadn't already been following this story.
Video production intended for a wide audience most likely isn't the easiest thing to do well. Certainly at least not in a way that can please everyone.
This is just my opinion, not based on experience making video of which I have none. Merely on my observations gained viewing video and reading comments at various sites.
From what I've seen there are two most common criticisms.
The first is from those unfamiliar with the subject matter, they often feel the videos were too long, boring, or were not worth watching in their entire. Videos that run more than a few minutes without action seldom are reviewed well. Popular videos presenting a concept or idea usually have very short run times of a few minutes, and clearly make the point without unnecessary detail.
The second type is from those who are very familiar with a subject, or have more than a passing interest in it. They usually criticize the presentation for being too simplistic, it left out details, didn't cover the subject in enough depth, et cetera.
Often both types of criticism are given by different viewers for the same video. So it seems probable that for those producing a video that finding the ideal balance to please both the subject knowledgeable and hold the attention of the ADD viewer must present a bit of a dilemma.
Surely using private contractors helps FedEx keep costs down, we'll always do better to far superior work for less money than union members will, at this or any other job. If union workers were capable of competing they wouldn't need unions, the fact is they are substandard or are simply unwilling to push themselves to reach their full potential. We'll never really know, because they take the easy path and set up a cozy little Soviet system right in the middle of our capitalist market place. Union lovers can make any excuse they like for it, and they're all crap. If it was really "a fair wage" then get an even fairer wage doing what I'm doing and cost at less of an expense to the goose laying your golden egg. Why kill the goose so they get what amounts to entitlements for their lazy selfish rear ends.
But those type of minute details were not important to, and in no way discredit what was presented in the video. If anything they simply serve to support it.
United Parcel Smashers|11.11.09 @ 3:05AM|#
UPS packages always come smashed in some way, while FedEx packages usually are defect free. In addition UPS packages are delivered at the last possible minute or late, however FedEx packages are regularly delivered a day early. Live in CA and most order originate in NV.
Ratko|11.21.09 @ 1:31AM|#
You are a chuckle. Whether it's the upper variety shelf humor that comes from examining bizarre but real aspects of life, or that name, it's hard to say. But it is funny.
Debbie Curtis-Magley|11.11.09 @ 10:29AM|#
The real issue here is simply whether employees who do the same work should be covered by the same law. While both FedEx and UPS transport millions of packages daily by planes, it’s drivers who deliver the packages to offices and homes - not pilots. Out of the hundreds of companies in the delivery industry, FedEx Express is the only one whose drivers are covered by a different labor law. FedEx and UPS offer similar services and our employees perform the same work. It’s FedEx that is being treated differently under the current rules at the expense of everyone else in the industry.
We offer more details on this issue at the UPS Pressroom RLA Facts page http://bit.ly/kv2UX.
Debbie Curtis-Magley
UPS Public Relations
Ratko|11.20.09 @ 11:06PM|#
No offence, madame, but the real issue here is one never betters their own situation by pulling others down. All that is accomplished in doing that is more are down, and chances of ever pulling one self up are lessened.
We desperately need to free up our market places, not further stangle them.
An earlier commenter above stated that FedEx had backed legislation that would have placed UPS on equal footing. I need to verify this. If it's true that FedEx favored pulling UPS up, then what's being attempted now is so despicable I can't even put it into words.
That aside, thank you for taking the time to share your side of the story here.
|11.11.09 @ 2:11PM|#
Debbie,
You have it right. Most of the people here are quite moronic and
have no basic understanding of history and law. It's a prime
example
of the idiocy of America
Ratko|11.20.09 @ 11:13PM|#
Ready to give a history lesson, Mr. Fong? Or just make insults?
History is my favorite subject, my notepad and pencil are ready.
|11.12.09 @ 2:44PM|#
On a different note.
I like the style of this video.
Can we see more such 'whiteboard videos' on current issues?
Toast|11.12.09 @ 2:47PM|#
Here's the thing. FedEx Express operates as an airline which is different from FedEx Ground and UPS which primarily operate as trucking companies, and they are governed differently. There's really nothing to argue there.
The real debate is why UPS who was so bent on being governed the same as FedEx Express is now claiming it's unfair after they didn't meet the criteria. If massive strikes happen again, the businesses and individuals of this country need their packages and they will still be able to get them with FedEx
Ratko|11.20.09 @ 11:20PM|#
Your closing point appears valid. Give unions the power to shut down both services and they'd find that kind of leverage almost too tempting to resist. If it were to happen we'd be left with the USPS... just the thought makes me cringe.
GrilledCS|11.12.09 @ 8:06PM|#
Nick Gillespie is so talented that he can conduct an orchestra and shoot a whiteboard video at the same time. Impressive.
|11.13.09 @ 11:55AM|#
I worked for FDX in a sales role for 7 years. I have moved on but both companies moved millions of packages a day so everyone is going have some great experiences and bad experiences with both organizations. FDX basically has no interest in changing their management structure to be union because its a pain for them more than anything. They would be fine in a union environment just like UPS is successful. Another mistake in this article is that UPS is twice as expensive as FDX, that is 100% WRONG. FDX is actually 5% more expensive on some products and 5% less expensive on other services so they are basically the same. Also any strikes that happen to UPS will not allow FDX to still deliver, as they can't double their capacity overnight.
Ratko|11.20.09 @ 11:46PM|#
Pardon? Where did Gillespie state it was twice as expensive to use?
No business is just fine in an union environment, sir. Don't confuse tenaciously hanging on by a nail for just fine.
You may want to look into this subject more closely, our major US industries haven't gone overseas out of greed. Those that vanished had no choice. The combination of the union stranglehold and intense government regulation either killed them or left them no option except relocate.
You really do not know what FedEx's motives are, your claim is as preposterous as your confidence in unions.
Just curious, have you been, or are you now, a member or a representative of an union? If so you really should let that be known.
Karl|11.13.09 @ 4:26PM|#
Nice video. I would like to share it with some people who would be offended by obscenity (bitch-slap) so I regret I cannot. Can I suggest you clean it up next time?
Truxz|11.14.09 @ 1:39PM|#
I've worked for FedEx as a courier for 15 years. The UPS guys are always over worked and miserable. I chat with my customers and don't get worked like a slave, I enjoy coming in to work every day. The unions trade slightly higher starting wages for much crappier working conditions. Knew the shop steward for the UPS center as we used to chat. The horror stories he told me make me shudder at the thought of the Teamsters getting in with us.
|11.15.09 @ 1:03AM|#
WOW!
Absolutely genius. Man I love you guys... this was just great!
So so so so so so great. So high quality, so funny, and SO SO SO TRUE!
HA! I need to watch this again!
|11.17.09 @ 9:10AM|#
I worked for UPS for a few years, as delivery driver then customer service. I can tell you that most UPS drivers work like a dog all day long trying to meet their quotas, which are sometimes just insane. I would work sweating my guts out at full speed through all my breaks in an effort to try to make it. But I was reminded how much more money there was in UPS than FedEx, but man, those FedEx guys always looked so cool, calm, and collected!
How unfortunate it is that companies have to waste so much effort lobbying the government for fair treatment.
|11.18.09 @ 6:08PM|#
It's surprising that the labor costs are so different. You'd never know it from using their services. UPS is faster and more reliable now than at any other time I can recall, and definitely price-competitive with FedEx.
I realize the point this video is trying to make, but the presenter fell short of mentioning that the reason "unions are a relic of the industrial revolution" is because the federal government illegally (unconstitutionally) took over the unions' job of restricting work hours, enforcing work place hazard rules, and mandating minimum wages.
I don't buy this one-eye-covered minarchism. Either you want the fe'ral gov't interfering, or you want them completely out of the picture--and you can't say you're for smaller government if you want federal labor restrictions. If the government wasn't interfering with labor unions, they could form or disband without regard for irrelevant restrictions such as whether or not a company owns vehicles with wings.
Mr. Go|11.20.09 @ 7:30PM|#
You make an interesting point but the fact is government interference is a real risk to organization of labor. From rotten borough sheriffs and anti-strike injunctions to the arbitrary and confuddled application of the NLRA.
Ratko|11.20.09 @ 10:34PM|#
Unions have destroyed this nations industries. Employers can't even choose who they want to employ once these mobsters have moved in. I'm proud that I'm hated for being hired as an independent contractor in several of these enterprises. They don't like outsiders on their turf that doesn't belong to them, and they'd be even more angry if they knew in most cases I was being paid far more than their highest paying positions.
Gillespie is correct about individuals and compensation. When I'm called in there is a need that can't be met by union employees. Their system doesn't foster development of those kind of skills.
If people were left to negotiate their own contracts, as I do, we'd discover a worker capable of putting a nut on a bolt all day really isn't that valuable, and I'd be able to negotiate an even better deal.
Unions stand in my way, they make my American dream more difficult, and I despise them.
The government has no business climbing in bed with these creeps. Nothing good ever happens when criminal minds combine.
|11.21.09 @ 12:00AM|#
Fedex workers want the union, Fedex managemnt does not.
The Fedex pilots are unionized (ALPA), and have been for
years.
Fedex drivers make about half the pay ($15/hour)and benefits that
the USPS ($26/hour) and UPS ($29/hour) workers make. And fedex
ground is "independent contractors", who are required to purchase
their own trucks, tires, gas. In addition to this they receive no
vacations, health insurance, workmans compensation, and have to
pay the company's portion of employment taxes, in addition to
their own.
The unionized pilots of Fedex and UPS make basically the same
(around $226/hour).
If the law changes look for Fedex to unionize.
The only one getting screwed here is the fedex workers (except
for the pilots). Fedex is good at blaming others, especially UPS
and the Teamsters for their problems.
Maybe if fedex treated their people with respect they would not
have to worry about the unionization of their employees.
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