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Romanian Romance
From the country that brought you...well, not much of anything really, comes this week's big international news story:
In Romania, decriminalizing incest among consenting adults is being considered as part of a wide range of reforms to the country's criminal code. No date has been set yet for a parliament vote on the bill, and opposition to the proposal is fervent even among some lawmakers in the ruling coalition.
Currently all forms of incest in Romania are punishable by up to seven years in prison. But Romania's Justice Ministry suggests the new legislation would move the country—which joined the European Union two years ago—closer legally to some other EU members.
The reforms are getting some press thanks to Josef Fritzl's recent trial in Austria. In case you missed it, he locked up his daughter for 23 years and fathered seven children with her.
But the most shocking stuff from the article isn't the details of the Fritzl case; it is a quote from Valerian Cioclei, Romania's Justice Ministry legal expert:
Not everything that is immoral has to be illegal...We cannot help these people by turning them into criminals and punishing them.
It's a good point, even if Cioclei slyly indicates that voluntary partners need "help" or correction. Romania would follow in the steps of France, Spain and Portugal by not prosecuting consenting adults for their bedroom activities. Naturally, there are plenty of concerned critics, ranging from psychologist to geneticists. The Vatican, however, has been rather mum, probably because it doesn't have a Lot to say on the issue.
Feel like hatin' on the motherfuckers who want to decriminalize incest? Rap along with Romania's Paraziti (The Parasites) below:
Check out Paraziti's "Down With Censorship," featuring Larry Flynt, here. More on incest at Reason here.
robc|3.23.09 @ 11:26AM|#
I dont know why the Lot quotation would keep the Vatican from
taking a position. I have never heard the behavior of Lot's
daughters described in a positive light.
The bible is full of examples of both good and poor behavior. Often
by the same people.
David committed adultery and then murder to cover it up. That has
never been held up as an example of good behavior.
|3.23.09 @ 11:26AM|#
Not everything that is immoral has to be illegal...We cannot
help these people by turning them into criminals and punishing
them.
Burn the heretic!
|3.23.09 @ 11:27AM|#
Instead of having to defend decriminalization, I would ask proponents of anti-incest law to explain why I or anyone else should ever have paid a penny to attempt to enforce laws against it. I don't give a rip.
Mad Max|3.23.09 @ 11:34AM|#
I try to imagine Jean Monnet, or one of the other originators of
the United-Europe movement, debating some reactionary about whether
it's advisable to have pan-European institutions setting common
norms.
I imagine the reactionary declaring - "watch out, the pan-European
institutions you're proposing to create may one day make incest
legal under the guise of human rights!"
Monnet would have cited this statement as an illustration of the
craziness, irresponsibility and irrationality of the opponents of
his United Europe plans.
Even the reactionary's political allies would have taken him aside
and said, "dude, you're making our movement lose all credibility! I
mean, legalizing incest, that's just insane! We're against Monnet's
plans, but we certainly don't believe it would get that
extreme!"
'From the country that brought you...well, not much of anything
really'
Unless you count
this guy.
Kunal|3.23.09 @ 11:35AM|#
From the country that brought you...well, not much of
anything really
Umm, Dracula? Caucescu? Nadia Comaneci? The Numa-numa song?
|3.23.09 @ 11:38AM|#
The Vatican, however, has been rather mum, probably because
it doesn't have a Lot to say on the issue.
[Groan] Some things just aren't punny, dude.
|3.23.09 @ 11:55AM|#
Laws legalizing sibling incest discriminate against only
children.
I demand the government subsidize a hot sister for me to fuck.
Other Matt|3.23.09 @ 12:09PM|#
I demand the government subsidize a hot sister for me to
fuck.
In the age of "Change!!", I'm sure it's right around the corner.
Taxed at 90%, you know, just in case you enjoy it.
|3.23.09 @ 12:10PM|#
Other Matt,
Shouldn't it be a targeted tax on people who have 3 or more hot
sisters already?
|3.23.09 @ 12:14PM|#
I demand the government subsidize a hot sister for me to
fuck.
That's already been taken care of.
Here in the New American Collective, we're all brothers and
sisters.
Warty|3.23.09 @ 12:16PM|#
Holy shit, this one is even
better.
"Mr. Zappa, do you think that rock music has any responsibility for
3,000 teenagers getting pregnant a day?"
"No." *blinks*
Reinmoose|3.23.09 @ 12:21PM|#
Here in the New American Collective, we're all brothers and
sisters.
Exactly. It's not constructive to have laws against incest here if
they're just going to be taking the children from birth for mass
education. How are you supposed to know your brothers and sisters
from your "brothers and sisters?"
|3.23.09 @ 12:22PM|#
Shouldn't it be a targeted tax on people who have 3 or more
hot sisters already?
I need to target these people and become friends with them.
|3.23.09 @ 12:35PM|#
From the country that brought you...well, not much of anything really, comes this week's big international news story:
During the fall of the Iron Curtain, the Romanians did give us the
most definitive and satisfying end to communist rule.
Not everything that is immoral has to be illegal...We cannot help these people by turning them into criminals and punishing them.
Are we absolutely certain that Valerian Cioclei is really
a goverment official?
Jozef|3.23.09 @ 12:35PM|#
Umm, Dracula? Caucescu? Nadia Comaneci? The Numa-numa
song?
Numa-numa came from Moldova. Which is why the rest of the world
didn't give a shit when Russia did an Abchazia against them.
|3.23.09 @ 12:38PM|#
Jamie,
Be tasteless, rude, and offensive,
Live in a swamp and be three dimensional,
Put a live chicken in your underwear,
Get all excited and go to a yawning festival.
jtuf|3.23.09 @ 12:50PM|#
I advice against incest, but consenting adults should be able to legally marry if they want.
|3.23.09 @ 1:32PM|#
From the country that brought you...well, not much of
anything really
Does the largest
building in Europe count?
Abdul|3.23.09 @ 2:08PM|#
Whatever you say about Rick Santorum, you can't say he didn't warn us about this.
|3.23.09 @ 2:32PM|#
Feel like hatin' on the motherfuckers who want to
decriminalize incest?
This, and the "onslaught of boobs?" I like the new guy.
Sean Scallon|3.23.09 @ 2:52PM|#
Wow, maybe Mary Ruwart should moved to Romania and run for
president.
The Vatican, however, has been rather mum, probably because it
doesn't have a Lot to say on the issue.
Which is probably a good thing because Romania is an ORTHODOX
Christian nation which means the opposition to such "reforms" will
be considerbaly stronger and more ferocious.
You bring up the Vatican to make snarky point and you Cosmos only
make yourself look stupid. Try finishing school next time.
Colin|3.23.09 @ 2:53PM|#
From the country that brought you...well, not much of
anything really
They brought us Ionesco.
Adderall Apocalypse|3.23.09 @ 2:59PM|#
yeah, once I took a "would you have been a Nazi" test on the
interwebz. It said I would have expatriated like Einstein, but I
don't think any of my cousins would marry me.
Haha, "Lot"... that's so great...
|3.24.09 @ 3:31AM|#
'From the country that brought you...well, not much of anything
really'
The jet plane was invented by a romanian ;) Henri Coanda. One of
the biggest invention in the history...
|3.24.09 @ 5:52AM|#
From the country that brought you...well, not much of anything
really, comes this week's big international news story:
think again! the tragedy of Romania is to be roulled by some simply
stupid people. this has happend for more than 70 years... the media
and people do not agree with this. but think again please (or
search google): henry coanda, nikola tesla, traian vuia (even if
you watch discovery, vuia had the first flight), herman obert (was
him german? so what is sibiu for obert?), brancusi, etc.
etc...
so I will rephrase this: "the country where everyone took
everything"
|3.24.09 @ 6:11AM|#
If you would ask Romanians what they think about decriminalizing
incest, an overwhelming majority would say they are against the
idea and not only because of religious reasons. So please don't
depict the country as some backwater full of retards with no morals
whatsoever.
As about what Romania brought to the world some readers already
mentioned Eugène Ionesco, Henri Coanda, Nadia Comaneci to name a
few.
Florin|3.24.09 @ 6:39AM|#
reason? Where exactly you can find reason in an article chocking with misleading quotes and ignorance? Free minds, free markets, exiled intelligence. From the country who brought you this: http://www.happyfish.ro/bucharest_facts/informatie_genetica/
|3.24.09 @ 7:35AM|#
Mr. Winkler, if you don't know ...almost nothing (because
Comaneci and Dracula won't make your general knowledge a
medium-level one. You'll have to read books, not newspapers in
order to accomplish an upper level), that doesn't means Romania
"brought nothing". I could send you a long list of Romanians who
"brought" something-if you'll ask me, but right now I want to ask
you a question: what about homosexuality? Is that moral because
most of occidental people agree with it and let it be legal?
I don't think we should accept a law which allows incestuous
relations, but I can't agree with ignorance and hate neither. And I
can't accept that living in a rich (poor) country can automatically
made you clever (miserable). Maybe your country is on the wave now,
but -personally- you may need to go back to school just a little
bit more.
|3.25.09 @ 1:02AM|#
@Alex: Tesla was serbian of romanian etnicity.
Most people here would rather write something idiotic than search a
little bit on Google. Romania brought you some stuff, maybe not a
lot but enough - from vaccines to aviation and jet engine - for a
tiny country always in the shadow of some empire. And it is not
catholic! And is not at all as religulous as a certain "advaced"
country. And ranks numbers 6 in the world as internet speed, as
opposed to number 30 for US. And the vast amjority of people live
in real cities, not in countrside or suburbs. And (still) has a
very good educations system. And free health care.
Europe in general has a lot of liberties and laws that would be
considered in the country with a Bible belt against god and nature.
On the other hand incest is really a lot less common than in the
same bible belt.
I really don't understand the problem with sex between consenting
adults. Who cares? Jeff Winkler? I understand why they should not
have kids or marry, but sex? The present law punishes sex, not
making kids.
|3.25.09 @ 11:27AM|#
I would ask proponents of anti-incest law to explain why I
or anyone else should ever have paid a penny to attempt to enforce
laws against it.
Maybe the cost of stopping them is less than the increased health
care cost of caring for their children, and the weakening of the
gene pool by said children.
On the other hand maybe it's not. Maybe the social stigma is
enough. just like with many drugs, before they were illegal it's
not like their use was widespread. (And of course we will spend
money as a society to help those kids and to make life easier for
them, even if some of us think we shouldn't.)
Not to mention that such sex is often a symptom of childhood abuse
either by the sibling or a parent, where the weaker partner cannot
trust others and turns only to their sibling. they need help.
Unlike drugs where you hurt yourself, this could be one person
hurting another, though maybe not conciously.
It is like bigamy. Is bigamy really ever "consenting adults" no
it's not. It's almost always abuse of young girls by men decades
older. We can't simply ignore that can we?
If we think about it as stockholm syndrom, would we not help that
person even if they are an adult and are freely choosing to be with
their abuser?
I don't know, I'm torn on these issues since I always think of them
as most often one person being abused or taken advantage of.
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