When Is 'Not an Option' Not an Option?

Jacob Sullum | December 3, 2008

Regarding the Big Three automakers, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says:

I believe an intervention will happen, either legislatively or from the administration. I think it's pretty clear that bankruptcy is not an option.

Where have we heard this sort of talk before? Where haven't we?

"In these challenging times, when we are facing both rising deficits and a sinking economy," President-elect Obama said last week, "budget reform is not an option." He added, "It's a necessity," but the statement probably would have been more accurate if he hadn't.

The next day, USA Today editorialized that Obama's stimulus package "must be bold because timidity is not an option in these dire times." So much for budget reform.

Also last week, A.P. explained that Citibank's failure "is not an option," while Alistair Darling, Britain's chancellor of the exchequer, said taxes must go up because "doing nothing is not an option."

In his November 18 speech on global warming, Obama insisted that "delay is no longer an option."

Back in September, when Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson was drumming up support for his $700 billion plan to encourage lending by purchasing "troubled assets" from financial institutions, Sen. Robert Bennett (R-Utah) announced that "we have to do something," because "inaction is not an option." A few days later, Republican presidential candidate John McCain, possibly after reading David Broder's column on the subject, concurred. A month and a half later, after getting the $700 billion he had demanded, Paulson officially abandoned the plan whose nonimplementation he had declared a nonoption.

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|12.3.08 @ 1:52PM|#

Zombie Plague is not an option - IT'S A FEAKING NECESSITY!

Hey, you know what? Failure is an option! It's a feature of the free market. Painful, yes, unfair, yes, but, in the long run, it's better for all of us. It's certainly better than propping up politically connected industries solely because of their political connections. What about all of those Circuit City or Linens 'N Things employees?

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 1:54PM|#

Blue,

Don't even joke about that! I don't have the guns to live my warlord dream yet!

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 1:56PM|#

Pro Lib,

Circuit City wouldn't give congressional members price breaks. Barkruptcy and liquidation will teach em' a lesson in humility!

Pac|12.3.08 @ 1:57PM|#

I don't see any problem with the auto companies having access to the baiout cash, it would probably do more to help individual workers compared with the money that has already been handed out.

I wonder, if the auto companies weren't unionized if you'd be harping about this. The antiunion bias on this site has been pretty thick the last few days.

Mike M.|12.3.08 @ 1:58PM|#

Clean and honest government, the single set-back offense, and coming up with a new political slogan are not options.

Pac|12.3.08 @ 2:00PM|#

Hey pro you didn't your panties in a bunch when American Express jumped through hurdles to get bailout cash.

Are you that ignorant and spiteful over some poor smuck getting benefits and a few extra bucks an hour.

Doug|12.3.08 @ 2:01PM|#

Apparently groupthink is our only option.

gaijin|12.3.08 @ 2:01PM|#

Don't you get it? If are assertions are proclaimed with sufficient assertiveness, then our actions must be right. Right? Being wrong is, apparently, no longer an option.

|12.3.08 @ 2:02PM|#

It's ironic how those who are first to blame free market advocates for being naive utopians are also the first to blame the market for not ushering utopian perfection. It's a market failure if everyone doesn't get a pony for Christmas, therefore Gub'ment must step in to provide those ponies!

thoreau|12.3.08 @ 2:02PM|#

I guess that making fuel-efficient cars that people actually want to buy is simply not an option for Detroit.

Too bad.

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 2:03PM|#

I had a long argument within someone on H&R about a year ago. I said that cost and price were totally unrelated. Cost is driven by what the producer must pay to produce a widget. Price is driven by what the customer is willing to pay to buy the widget.

This pissed off someone who insisted that price must always be higher than cost. I said it just looks that way because when cost exceeds price, the producer goes out of business.

I need to modify that now, when cost exceeds price (e.g. like when GM sells small cars at a loss) and threatens to shut down a producer the way it should, then the producer runs to Washington screaming for help.

Perhaps, the feds can rewrite the laws of physics when they get done rewriting the laws of economics.

Old Bull Lee|12.3.08 @ 2:07PM|#

Since there aren't any options, ever, why do we have all this democratic voting on stuff in the legislative branch? We should just have more overlords like Paulson to handle everything.

|12.3.08 @ 2:09PM|#

Um, Pac, I oppose and have opposed all of the bailouts. Just yesterday I mentioned voting for my congressman for the sole reason that he opposed the bailout of financial services firms.

I have several reasons for opposing the auto bailout. First, it won't work. The companies will still end up failing--we'll just spend $34+ billion to stave off the next failure. Second, why do those poor schmucks get saved and other poor schmucks do not? Third, why do we have bankruptcy laws and doesn't another bailout just explode the moral hazard problem? Finally, I trust the market much more than I trust the government to decide what companies should survive and which should not.

I wonder, if the auto companies weren't unionized if you'd be harping about this. The antiunion bias on this site has been pretty thick the last few days.

Yeah. Nobody at Reason, not contributors or commentors, even once bitched abot the bailout of non-union investment banks, insurance giants etc.

You caught us. We're just against the unions here.

Zeb|12.3.08 @ 2:10PM|#

If GM's costs exceed the price they can get for their products, would they not be a more profitable company if they just stopped producing anything?

Pac|12.3.08 @ 2:11PM|#

You just hate Unions because you're a bunch of losers with no jobs!

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 2:14PM|#

If GM's costs exceed the price they can get for their products, would they not be a more profitable company if they just stopped producing anything?

Not only does the cost of a large percentage of GM products exceed their price, the company's liabilities are many fold greater than its assests.

The only appropriate action here is for the bankruptcy court to decided who gets screwed a little bit and who gets screwed a lot.

|12.3.08 @ 2:16PM|#

I love the stimulus package. That is hope and change you can believe in. Wow a government stimulus package in a recession. Good thing President McHopey is around because no one would have ever thought of that.

We have gone 17 years without a recession of any kind and 25 years since we had a bad one. In that time, people have begun to believe that any sort of economic downturn is unacceptable and must be avoided at all costs. Operating under that principle and facing a real no kidding down turn, the entire establishment has abandoned all principles and completely paniced. Watch Obama or Bush or Paulson or any of them on TV talking about this. They all have the same vacant panicked look in their eyes.

We are destroying our credit and government in a paniced effort to avoid an economic downturn the severity of which we are not even sure of. Every houshold in America has added $85,000 in their share of the national debt for this madness. How exactly is that not the worst of all alternatives?

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:17PM|#

Pac,

I'm a bartender. If my profession were unionized I would have more or less been kept out of the profession as most bartenders are 40 or older. I would go something like this: Can't have some young guy coming in stealing our jobs and making us all look bad can we? What? He would work for less too? Get him the hell out of here!

"ACTION IS REQUIRED! WE MUST HAVE SOME ACTION!"

|12.3.08 @ 2:17PM|#

You just hate Unions because you're a bunch of losers with no jobs!

I don't "hate" unions. I support the rights of employees to organize and collectively bargain. I also realize that the UAW is acting as a host killing parasite. Do you?

I admit to not having a job. Haven't had one for 12 years now. I do have retirement income and some money from conservative investments though. Life is good when you plan ahead and don't hold unrealisitic expectations. No vacationing on the Riviera for J sub D.

|12.3.08 @ 2:18PM|#

Oh, lord, is Pac another performance artist? If not, half of us are reasonably affluent professionals. Which is why we want to crush the little guy, I know. I read The Communist Manifesto, too.

ev|12.3.08 @ 2:20PM|#

as a 21 year old finishing up college and soon to be journeying into the real world for the first time, i am fucking terrified.

it just feels that everything around me (economically) is falling apart and my life is going to suck.

im going to continue my dive into the bottle. what's the preferred liquor of economic crises?...feel's like gin, yes? maybe rocket fuel.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 2:21PM|#

"Pro Libertate | December 3, 2008, 2:18pm | #
Oh, lord, is Pac another performance artist?"

He was going on on the other thread about how everyone who comments here must be a WoW-playing, 30 something shut in virgin because we don't get hard-ons for unionization or whatever, so he probably is a performance artist/troll. He also used the term "echo chamber". I think he is concerned observer's/lefiti's slightly more intelligent twin.

|12.3.08 @ 2:21PM|#

The whole purpose of representative government is to free us from unnecessary options.

EJM|12.3.08 @ 2:21PM|#

I have several reasons for opposing the auto bailout. First, it won't work. The companies will still end up failing--we'll just spend $34+ billion to stave off the next failure. Second, why do those poor schmucks get saved and other poor schmucks do not? Third, why do we have bankruptcy laws and doesn't another bailout just explode the moral hazard problem? Finally, I trust the market much more than I trust the government to decide what companies should survive and which should not.

In addition, some in the Canadian auto industry are concerned about potential job losses resulting from a bailout of its U.S. counterpart.

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:21PM|#

ev,

Learn to bartend. I learned when I was 20. Except for last year, I've lived like a prince while finishing school. It's great part time work too.

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 2:24PM|#

as a 21 year old finishing up college and soon to be journeying into the real world for the first time, i am fucking terrified.

it just feels that everything around me (economically) is falling apart and my life is going to suck.

Actually, you are entering the job market at about the trough (thing will slide downhill until 2011 or so, then start back up).

If you live within your means and start saving immediately, then you should be able to live a pretty good life during the next 15 to 20 year expansion.

Just don't plan on living the high life the day you step out of college.

|12.3.08 @ 2:26PM|#

Learn to bartend. I learned when I was 20. Except for last year, I've lived like a prince while finishing school. It's great part time work too

ev, don't listen to Naga unless you like taking home drunk cougars at closing time and trying to find some sensation in a pussy that's squeezed out two kids with birth weights resembling Andre the Giant's.

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:27PM|#

Kinnath, you fool! You'll wreck the economy talking like that!

ev,

Ignore kinnath. Get as many credit cards as you can. Take out a loan for as much as you can get. Waste it on blow and hookers. Switch the balance from credit card to credit card indefinitely. Success!

|12.3.08 @ 2:28PM|#

Until today, I hadn't actual heard of "job banks".

Nah, the union doesn't have anything to do with Detroit's problems.

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 2:29PM|#

Ignore kinnath. Get as many credit cards as you can. Take out a loan for as much as you can get. Waste it on blow and hookers. Switch the balance from credit card to credit card indefinitely. Success!

Do as I say, not as I do ;-)

|12.3.08 @ 2:29PM|#

Epi,

Maybe ev likes gray pubes, vulva wrinkling and the scent of an open crypt. Don't be so judgmental, dude.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 2:29PM|#

My God, SugarFree, that sounds like something out of fuckin' East Germany!

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:29PM|#

Episiarch,

I feel I should never have told you that part of my life. Hilariously enough though, you reminded me of a skit from "Scrubs".

"I had a C section with all my kids, so everything is as it was down there."

|12.3.08 @ 2:30PM|#

"ev, don't listen to Naga unless you like taking home drunk cougars at closing time and trying to find some sensation in a pussy that's squeezed out two kids with birth weights resembling Andre the Giant's."

Sounds like a good time to me.

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 2:30PM|#

Until today, I hadn't actual heard of "job banks".

Actually, I don't blame the UAW for job banks. I blame the fucking idiot in management that agreed to it rather than shut down the business.

|12.3.08 @ 2:31PM|#

Epi, Sugerfree.

If she is below your standards, LOWER YOUR STANDARDS.

Bankruptcy lawyer|12.3.08 @ 2:32PM|#

I think it's pretty clear that bankruptcy is not an option.

Dammit! Now my industry needs a bailout.

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 2:32PM|#

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:33PM|#

SugarFree,

Your vast knowledge on such practices is disturbing! Each to his own, I suppose.

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:35PM|#

Props to John for his post at 2:31.

Bringin' the high five back!

*raises hand in air*

|12.3.08 @ 2:35PM|#

Naga,

The problem is that anything disgusting or weird or sexually deviant never really leaves my memory. It just rattles around up there until it comes spewing forth.

"That's what she said."

|12.3.08 @ 2:36PM|#

Maybe ev likes gray pubes, vulva wrinkling and the scent of an open crypt. Don't be so judgmental, dude.

Right, right. I forget that there is actually a market for Airtight Grannies.

I feel I should never have told you that part of my life.

I would have guessed it anyway, dude. The Camaro is a dead giveaway.

If she is below your standards, LOWER YOUR STANDARDS.

John, I have a reputation to maintain.

Dammit, I posted the rules to the joe-spoofing contest! Name to post under: Joe'cuse! Way to identify the spoofer for scoring and prizes: Identifying yourself in the e-mail or URL fields! Work with me people!

Episiarch is in the lead, incidentally, though joe was exceedingly unimpressed with Episiarch's first heat.

sfb|12.3.08 @ 2:37PM|#

You know, Epi must have a really small dick.

|12.3.08 @ 2:38PM|#

A more current article about jobs banks. It's from Fox News, not a paragon of journalism... the gist is that it's down to only 3,500 people are currently getting full pay for playing checkers all day. And that some employees have been in the bank for 15 years.

|12.3.08 @ 2:40PM|#

You know, Epi must have a really small dick.

He'll email you a picture if you ask nice... At least, that's what Pro Libertate told me.

pac|12.3.08 @ 2:40PM|#

oh wow, someones pretending to be me.

Weird, i guess pointing out bias gets people upset.

but please, feel free to ignore whatever makes you uncomfortable. I'm sure it has worked so well for you in the past.

|12.3.08 @ 2:41PM|#

You know, Epi must have a really small dick.

Well, I guess I walked right into that one.

pac|12.3.08 @ 2:41PM|#

I work in a job bank. What of it?

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:44PM|#

Episiarch,

The Camaro was a dead giveaway? PROFILING!!! You probably think I have a mullet!!!

SugarFree,

I threw up a little when I read that(horrible mental image). For anyone else but you, I would be confused on why Pro Lib would tell you that.

|12.3.08 @ 2:45PM|#

"Not and option".
It's the next "Too big to fail".

Naga Sadow as Pac|12.3.08 @ 2:47PM|#

Oh, and by the way job banks are very functional. We need to keep those skills handy.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 2:49PM|#

I'm convinced now that Pac is indeed concerned observer/Lefiti. Or at least he is just as easy to spoof because of him combo of caricatured leftist beliefs and "I'm superior to ALL of you!" tone.

BDB Copy Editor|12.3.08 @ 2:50PM|#

Because of HIS combo of...etc.

|12.3.08 @ 2:52PM|#

The Camaro was a dead giveaway? PROFILING!!! You probably think I have a mullet!!!

I know you have a mullet. Business in the front and party in the back, right?

|12.3.08 @ 2:54PM|#

"The problem is that anything disgusting or weird or sexually deviant never really leaves my memory. It just rattles around up there until it comes spewing forth."

You say that like it is a bad thing. What is the point of sexual devience if not to relive it over and over again in your memory?

Wesley Mouch|12.3.08 @ 2:54PM|#

You'll do something, won't you, Mr. Rearden?

Naga Sadow|12.3.08 @ 2:56PM|#

Sadly, Epi, no. No glorious mullet for me. I'm 24 and already going bald. Damn genetics!

|12.3.08 @ 2:58PM|#

Because I wouldn't? SugarFree is extending his battle with Episiarch to me today for some reason. I must've gotten a coupon or something.

Naga,

Hair loss isn't genetic. It's a choice.

Pac|12.3.08 @ 2:59PM|#

I'm convinced now that Pac is indeed concerned observer/Lefiti. Or at least he is just as easy to spoof because of him combo of caricatured leftist beliefs and "I'm superior to ALL of you!" tone.

You wish, sorry to burst your predetermined reactions, but i voted for Barr, prefered Ruwart, and tend to be nuetral when it comes to Unions.

Sorry I don't act like i have a chip on my shoulder when it comes to Unions.

Oh before i forget, what leftist beliefs have i spouted off on. I'd be interested in knowing.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:01PM|#

You voted for Barr but you're for the bailouts? Ok, that's a little hard to believe.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:03PM|#

And IIRC, you're also against privatizing SS.

Pac|12.3.08 @ 3:05PM|#

Bailouts are a reality whether i agree or not, but yeah, if they're going to the banks the auto guys should be able to raid that stash too.

but whatever, believe what you want. I just felt compeled to comment about the large amount of ignorance that's been spread here the last few days.

I guess you have to be grounded in reality to see it, versus holding tight to some rigid utopian fantasy.

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 3:06PM|#

I guess you have to be grounded in reality to see it, versus holding tight to some rigid utopian fantasy.

Grow up

|12.3.08 @ 3:07PM|#

SugarFree is extending his battle with Episiarch to me today for some reason.

I only kid because I love.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:08PM|#

"Pac | December 3, 2008, 3:05pm | #
I guess you have to be grounded in reality to see it, versus holding tight to some rigid utopian fantasy."

Opposing tax payer money being squandered on corporate welfare, corporate welfare paid for by burying us and our children into the ground with debt=believing in a utopia fantasy, Uh huh, ok.

Pac|12.3.08 @ 3:09PM|#

To make it clear, I think the bailouts are disgusting, but I'm not going to watch the money go to the prefered/connected industires (banks), while the unprefered are told to take a hike, and not say something.

My beliefs aside, i'm not going to get on my highhorse and admonish the big three/unions over wanting bailout cash while other people get the all you can eat buffet.

|12.3.08 @ 3:11PM|#

Good thing leftists are in no way, shape, form, or fashion Utopian in any of their beliefs whatsoever.

C for style
D- for content

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:11PM|#

"Pac | December 3, 2008, 3:05pm | #
but whatever, believe what you want. I just felt compeled to comment about the large amount of ignorance that's been spread here the last few days."

Well, I know when I want to convince people and/or share knowledge with them, the first thing I do is make ad hominem attacks, construct some straw men, then proclaim myself brilliant. /snark

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:12PM|#

Who else should get bailouts, Pac?

Airlines?
Oil companies (now that profits are down?)
Millions of small businesses (hey, they're hurting from the recession, too!)
Students who took out to many college loans?

Who's next?

Pac|12.3.08 @ 3:14PM|#

Kinnath, you're a tool.

I'll leave you guys to your union bashing party. I have better things to do than sit here hoping to see the UAW go bye bye.

You guys live in a world of your own. Maybe you guys are too busy playing warcraft, it would explain why the same people post here for every article night and day. Sorry i don't bash unions enough for you guys, or consider workers to be another form of welfare recipients, but You all enjoy yourselves.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:15PM|#

Ohh! I forgot state and local governments. They're asking for one as we speak.

|12.3.08 @ 3:17PM|#

Don't forget lawyers! As the economy shrinks, there will be less largess produced by our prey.

Won't you give?

|12.3.08 @ 3:18PM|#

John,

You say that like it is a bad thing. What is the point of sexual devience if not to relive it over and over again in your memory?

If was only my sexual deviance it wouldn't be so bad... :-(

kinnath|12.3.08 @ 3:19PM|#

Pac, may I suggest "How to make friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie.

It's an oldy but a goody.

Troll Grader|12.3.08 @ 3:21PM|#

"You guys live in a world of your own. Maybe you guys are too busy playing warcraft,"

Basless personal attacks--Check!

"I have better things to do than sit here hoping to see the UAW go bye bye. "

Strawman--Check!

You can of vaguely suggested you were vastly more intelligent than every one here, so

Douchebag Superiority Complex--Check!

But you failed to mention Hitler, and you weren't all THAT funny, so B- for you, Pac. Try harder!

|12.3.08 @ 3:21PM|#

Off-Topic...

I managed to pick up Season One through Three of Battlestar Galactica and Razor at a Circuit City bankruptcy sale for around a $100. I don't know what your stores look like after Trample Friday, but it might be worth checking out.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:22PM|#

Where is Circuit City's bail out? I live in their hometown, we're hurting goddamnit! Pac?

|12.3.08 @ 3:28PM|#

BDB... nice.

|12.3.08 @ 3:29PM|#

Where was the bailout for Washington Mutual? Huh? And, more importantly, its shareholders?

|12.3.08 @ 3:31PM|#

No glorious mullet for me. I'm 24 and already going bald.

Even better! Let what there is of it grow, dude. Nothing blares "hipster" like a bald guy with a ponytail driving a Camaro; hope it's a t-top.

Barney Frank|12.3.08 @ 3:32PM|#

We'll bail out the jobs bank, don't you fret. My secretary will give you the routing number for my account.

pac|12.3.08 @ 3:34PM|#

Hey pro you didn't see any problems with American Express going for that cash, why so serious now. Forget it, i don't care, I tend to just shake my head at ignorant people.

If all you can do is twist my words, and act like children go right ahead. You guys enjoy agreeing with each other while the world we live in does things you hate. YOu should be used to that by now.

Troll grader, if you want to see strawmen look at your fellow posters, plenty for all to go around.

pac|12.3.08 @ 3:37PM|#

You guys are losers. I'm leaving, and I'M NEVER COMING BACK!!!!!!!

pac|12.3.08 @ 3:38PM|#

NEVER!!!

!|12.3.08 @ 3:38PM|#

Is Pac == pac? or is pac spoofing Pac? Not that anyone could tell the difference.

|12.3.08 @ 3:39PM|#

I

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A
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A
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S,

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Pac|12.3.08 @ 3:40PM|#

You guys are losers. I'm leaving, and I'M NEVER COMING BACK!!!!

If i was a magazine, and these were my readers? i would be embarressed.

Wonderful debating skills you all have. I'm going to enjoy this site if Obama ever turns out to be a real socialist, but HEY, at least i didn't vote for him.

LOL

Pac|12.3.08 @ 3:41PM|#

No you just oppose some more than others. How nice for you.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:41PM|#

Christ, pac, you really think everyone on here agrees? You haven't been reading much.

"Pac | December 3, 2008, 3:41pm | #
No you just oppose some more than others. How nice for you."

??? Pro L was livid about the bailouts for the financial institutions.

!|12.3.08 @ 3:42PM|#

Pac, does your mommy know what you do when you play on the computer?

|12.3.08 @ 3:45PM|#

And I'm still livid. Literally. I look sunburned with indignation.

|12.3.08 @ 3:48PM|#

Pro Libertate, you silly boy. Opposing all the bailouts doesn't fit Pac's script built from pre-conceived notions.

|12.3.08 @ 3:50PM|#

Have I failed in some way to oppose the bailouts enough? Is this all my fault? It's true, I didn't go on a hunger strike.

I'm so ashamed.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 3:51PM|#

Where was Apple's bailout in 1997 when they were nearly bankrupted from building computers nobody wanted to buy? They didn't get one, they re-tooled and innovated and now are going gangbusters. Had the feds bailed them out in 1997, they'd still be making milquetoast PowerMacs nobody buys and in 20 years they'd ask for another bail out.

|12.3.08 @ 3:52PM|#

I don't know what your stores look like after Trample Friday,

I am so using that next year.

|12.3.08 @ 3:57PM|#

The ostentatiousness of my indignation knows no bounds.

Don't forget- if Apple had been bailed out in the 'nineties, John Sculley would still be running it!

not pac|12.3.08 @ 4:00PM|#

iPods, iMacs and iPhones don't exist! Apple did go bankrupt! THEY'RE UTOPIAN FANTASIES!

*LALALALALA* I CANT HEAR YOU!!

|12.3.08 @ 4:31PM|#

Pac - What is to be debated exactly? Unions pay people WAY more then they are worth and as J sub D mentioned are essentially parasites sucking off the host till it is dead. Well guess what the host is almost dead now the blood letting has gone on to long.

You can not pay someone $75 a hour total compensation to operate a impact wrench and stay open. Especially when your competitors are not paying near that amount and put out a better product with more for your money (more car since they didn't average an extra $2000 per car in labor expense alone).

Unions shot themselves in the foot over the long haul now they are reaping what they sewed.

What good is being in a Union if they are part of the cause that is the manufacturers undoing?

But they will get the money since they have bought and paid for the liberals favors for decades now.

|12.3.08 @ 4:59PM|#

Not an option is just so much easier to say and more mature sounding than "OHMYFUCKINGGODWE'VEGOTODO ***SOMETHING*** BUTWEDON'THAVEAFUCKINGCLUEWHAT!"

Straight Female|12.3.08 @ 5:06PM|#

Wow - No wonder I'm so infrequently attracted to straight men.

economist|12.3.08 @ 6:50PM|#

"oh wow, someones pretending to be me.

Weird, i guess pointing out bias gets people upset.

but please, feel free to ignore whatever makes you uncomfortable. I'm sure it has worked so well for you in the past."
Uh, Pac, you made a similar comment yesterday on a different thread. People here actually do get upset when nonunion industries get government handouts. I know it just seems to blow your mind that people can actually have principle objections to economic interventions by government, but try and work with me here.

economist|12.3.08 @ 6:52PM|#

"Pac, does your mommy know what you do when you play on the computer?"
Pac's just pissed off that his mom blocked his favorite gay porn sites.

BDB|12.3.08 @ 7:04PM|#

There should be a Godwin Law for accusing a person on a forum of being jobless shut-ins in their parents' basement. I've noticed this being thrown around a lot lately.

concerned observer|12.3.08 @ 7:11PM|#

None of you have jobs. You're all shut-ins in your parents' basements drinking Mountain Doo and playing WoW between postings here.

concerned observer|12.3.08 @ 7:12PM|#

Mom, can I have some Cheesy poofs?

concerned observer\'s mother|12.3.08 @ 7:12PM|#

Why don't you actually going out and get a job, you little sh*t!

concerned observer|12.3.08 @ 7:15PM|#

Hey pro you didn't see any problems with American Express going for that cash, why so serious now. Forget it, i don't care, I tend to just shake my head at ignorant people.

"If all you can do is twist my words, and act like children go right ahead. You guys enjoy agreeing with each other while the world we live in does things you hate. YOu should be used to that by now.

Troll grader, if you want to see strawmen look at your fellow posters, plenty for all to go around"
Hey, buttmunch, you're on my turf!

pac|12.3.08 @ 7:15PM|#

God I hate my life!

pac|12.3.08 @ 7:16PM|#

I'm going to use my special Barack Obama relaxation poster.

Ew, now it's all sticky.

|12.3.08 @ 7:19PM|#

I believe an intervention will happen, either legislatively or from the administration. I think it's pretty clear that bankruptcy is not an option.

Considering the smashing success of government subsidized housing (urban speak "the projects"), how could anyone possibly be opposed to the government mandating your tax dollars be spent on such a worth while cause that will reap (rape?) so many great benefits in the future!!!1111!!eleventy!!11!

Think about your children!!!

pac|12.3.08 @ 7:19PM|#

If none of the kids will play with me, I'll just have to play with myself!

pac|12.3.08 @ 7:26PM|#

Wow, this is still going on. Complete with people pretending to be me. I guess I was really starting to intrude on your eco chamber, economist. Why don't you ask your mom for more cheesey-poofs?

Do you guys do ANYTHING else except sit in your eco chamber?

Losers!

economist|12.3.08 @ 7:30PM|#

Is 7:26 pac real pac? I can't tell. I think it might be time to kill his character with a spoof fest. Then again, it didn't work out with CO.

pac|12.3.08 @ 7:31PM|#

I haven't even posted yet, wingnuts!

BDB|12.3.08 @ 7:46PM|#

Economist--

7:26 was my spoof of pac. It's the only spoof on here that I did, though. Was it that good?

economist|12.3.08 @ 7:49PM|#

BDB,
Like I said, I wasn't sure. Pretty good spoof. If we keep it up, pac might get pissed off and leave.

Nate|12.4.08 @ 2:58AM|#

I do believe the pac impersonator at 7:31 wins this thread.

|12.4.08 @ 7:46AM|#

Is Reason ever going to have real logins so that we can eliminate this spoofing nonsense?

|12.4.08 @ 9:28AM|#

Is Reason ever going to have real logins so that we can eliminate this spoofing nonsense?

This spoofing nonsense is what is used as a troll population control method in lieu of a banning policy. If the trolls don't like being spoofed, they can leave.

You notice how the real ideological opponents who come here to argue in good faith are almost never spoofed?

Stu_in_Chi|12.4.08 @ 11:21AM|#

The fact commentators are saying that the workers receive $75 in compensation shows that you guys have 0 actual knowledge of compensation.

First, auto workers average $25/hr in their pay check. An additional $10-15/hr can be added for what is called 'total compensation. This money is attributed to what the company pays per worker for health/disability benefits. The person who came up with the $70/hr figure then decide to add in the company's *fixed* costs related to retired workers into $/hr/worker. If you have any knowledge of accounting and/or compensation this is ridiculous.

I also think that all the economic *leading lights* on this blog think it is a-okay to loose and/or endanger over 3 million jobs right now. Because that is *totally* what the economy needs right now .

Pac|12.4.08 @ 3:18PM|#

Yep they sure like talking to themselves.

I wouldn't wipe my ass with that paper.

My dog could do better too.

Pac|12.4.08 @ 8:54PM|#

God, I hate my life, so much!

economist|12.4.08 @ 10:37PM|#

"I also think that all the economic *leading lights* on this blog think it is a-okay to loose and/or endanger over 3 million jobs right now. Because that is *totally* what the economy needs right now ."
Stay away from the broken windows fallacy. If 3 million jobs are an inefficient drain on the economy, then it really is okay to lose them.

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