Jacob Sullum | August 25, 2008
Cheyenne, Wyoming, Police Officer John Gay travels from school to school, warning students about the sexual predators lurking on the Internet. During a recent visit to Windsor High School in Windsor, Colorado, he got a little carried away, haranguing 16-year-old Shaylah Nordic over her allegedly provocative MySpace page in front of an assembly of her fellow students:
"He basically just said I was asking to be raped," said Shaylah Nordic, a Windsor sophomore.
A photo from Nordic's MySpace.com page, depicting her in a T-shirt and shorts, bending over and pointing at a new pair of shoes, was displayed on a screen in front of two separate student assemblies.
"He was saying that the posture of her rear end could be appealing to a sexual predator," said Ty Nordic, Shaylah's father.
"He did this in a mocking way," Ty said. "He took a pretty innocent picture and made it look sleazy."
Ty says Gay told the students that older men would be masturbating to her picture.
"She was belittled, embarrassed and humiliated," Ty said.
After Shaylah burst into tears and ran from the auditorium, Gay realized he had gone too far, so he apologized. Just kidding. He called her on her cell phone and asked her to return, thereby proving his point that creepy men could get her contact information from her MySpace page.
There is some disagreement between Gay and the Nordic family (as well as other students who witnessed his presentation) about exactly what he said—whether, for example, he claimed to have shown Shaylah's photograph to an imprisoned sex offender, who said he would use it as a masturbatory aid and added that if he ever met Shaylah he would "tear her up." But Gay does not dispute the general thrust of his comments, which amounted to a warning that Shaylah had in effect posted a "Rape Me" sign.
Shaylah, who has taken down her MySpace page, told Windsor Now the experience was especially upsetting because "my whole life I've really prided myself on being a Christian girl and having this pure image." Now teachers and fellow students look at her differently. "He just completely ruined that reputation that I worked for," she said. "He basically called me a slut."
Although no teacher or administrator intervened during Gay's presentation to save Shaylah from his harassment (which several of her fellow students vocally protested at the assembly), Principal Rick Porter apologized afterward:
I have some apologies to make. I don't want to apologize for the message that I'm trying to send because I am trying to educate kids in some of the dangers of the world that they work with every day. Some of the ways that [Gay] approached it offended, embarrassed and are hurting some of our kids.
Porter deserves some credit for apologizing. But when he booked Gay he had seen him in action and knew his technique involved using information from students' MySpace and Facebook pages to publicly put them on the spot. The fact that he asked Gay to visit his school anyway, not to mention the fact that Gay feels justified in using his Scared Modest approach to begin with, can be understood only in the context of the general panic about online sex offenders. Porter and Gay both seem to think they're dealing with an emergency in which harsh measures are required to prevent girls from being abducted, raped, and/or murdered, a danger Gay repeatedly invoked.
Yet such outcomes are rare even among Internet-related sex crimes, the vast majority of which involve consensual encounters between teenagers and adults. As investigators at the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center have shown (PDF), the typical "online predator" (who targets teenagers, not prepubescent children) does not conceal his age or his sexual interest and does not use force or the threat of violence to get his way. Something like 95 percent of sex crimes that involve the Internet also involve the knowing cooperation of the victim. So while authority figures like Porter and Gay are warning teenagers to look out for violent perverts who may use their online information to kidnap and assault them, the real danger is both more subtle and more obvious. The University of New Hampshire researchers found that the teenagers most at risk of sexual overtures from adults were those who "interacted online with unknown people and also engaged in a high number of different risky online behaviors," such as "having unknown people on a buddy list, talking online to unknown people about sex, seeking pornography online, [and] being rude or nasty online." In other words, it's not simply a matter of posting personal information (which by itself was not associated with an increased risk of come-ons) or putting up a picture that might titillate a rapist (or a cop).
[via The Freedom Files]
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Indeed.
"""""He did this in a mocking way," Ty said. "He took a pretty
innocent picture and made it look sleazy.""""
Government agents are getting good at making their perception your
reality.
"""for example, he claimed to have shown Shaylah's photograph to
an imprisoned sex offender, who said he would use it as a
masturbatory aid and added that if he ever met Shaylah he would
"tear her up." """
So this officer gave what he believed to be child porn to a
prisioner for sexual purposes? Isn't that a crime?
well, pushing the seemingly obvious point that posting personal
information on the internet is probably not the coolest of ideas
seems like a pretty decent track to take.
but this?
So would that family-friendly news agency who likes editing news
articles call the officer "John Homosexual"? (Hoping somebody gets
that reference from a month or so ago)
Sounds like this guy was trying to get himself psyched up to be
"Mr. Bad-Ass Internet Cop" and took it way too far. So does he get
suspended/fired for using bad judgment or for being a piss-poor
actor?
The fact that a 16 year old girl interpreted "old men will get off on your picture" as "you're a slut" illustrates to me that the girl is a bit full of herself, as many 16 year old girls are.
We need to have a minimum age for the internet! And internet
licenses!
Because if we just had those things nobody would ever do anything
stupid.
I plan to solve the problem by locking my daughter in the basement when she finishes fifth grade. She can come out when she's thirty.
"""The fact that a 16 year old girl interpreted "old men will
get off on your picture" as "you're a slut" """
From above story
"But Gay does not dispute the general thrust of his comments, which
amounted to a warning that Shaylah had in effect posted a "Rape Me"
sign."
She got the she's a slut idea because the cop was equating her
photo to a rape invitation. Not simply some dirty old man
desire.
madmikefisk,
So would that family-friendly news agency who likes editing
news articles call the officer "John Homosexual"?
Thanks to that story, I kept thinking I was watching Tyson
Homosexual drop the baton (insert obvious "drop the soap" line
here).
Any reason why Officer Douchebag couldn't have used a random
MySpace page belonging to someone who didn't go to that
school?
Not that the extreme scare tactics are particularly appropriate or
helpful, but that would've at least avoided the public
humiliation.
The fact that a 16 year old girl interpreted "old men will
get off on your picture" as "you're a slut" illustrates to me that
the girl is a bit full of herself, as many 16 year old girls
are.
Uhh, she had a guy telling her that a picture she posted made
criminals horny and that whatever she was doing in the photo, which
she considered innocent, was in fact provocative.
I'm not surprised that a 16-year-old girl takes that as "you're a
slut" when it's done in front of an auditorium of her peers. Plus
I'd bet you a lot of money that this cop's approach is through
shaming and not educating.
I think I'm suffering from a disease called "Outrage Fatigue Syndrome". Normally, adults treating a captive audience of *not adults* this way would get my blood up. But I'm just vaguely irritated that the assembled kids didn't just rise as one and slay him. Or, barring that, just walk out en masse.
It would be easier for me to form an opinion on this article if it included the slutty pictures.
Any reason why Officer Douchebag couldn't have used a random
MySpace page belonging to someone who didn't go to that
school?
Because he's a bully who obviously likes the shaming aspect of his
job (what kind of person who does this doesn't)?
Josef Fritzl | August 25, 2008, 4:33pm | #
TWC, I like the way you think.
I was thinking the same thing, but couldn't remember that guy's
name OTOH. Beat me to the Google.
So, "slut" now means "girl who men want to rape because of a photo." Thank you for clearing that up for me.
So does he get suspended/fired for using bad judgment or for
being a piss-poor actor?
New around here, huh?
But I'm just vaguely irritated that the assembled kids
didn't just rise as one and slay him. Or, barring that, just walk
out en masse.
Bravo!
A photo from Nordic's MySpace.com page, depicting her in a
T-shirt and shorts, bending over and pointing at a new pair of
shoes, was displayed on a screen in front of two separate student
assemblies.
And- since nobody has asked, yet, and inquiring minds want to know:
did the shorts say, "Juicy" across the back?
Teenagers aren't usually that bold, Elemenope. Not in my
experience anyway. They are usually just a little too soft to
understand the differences between right and wrong in these
scenerios, probably especially because it involves a police
officer.
But yes, if they protested, that would have been nice
And I quote: "he basically called me a slut"
No condemnation of a photo based exclusively on how it will
perceived and acted upon by others equates to the subject of the
photo being of loose morals or promiscuous character.
If the cop had said that "this photo will make kiddie-killers want
to kill you," would she interpret it as "you obviously want to
die"?
If said officer had pulled several photos off of MySpace as
examples of content that could be considered potentially enticing
without singling out one student and then followed up by
encouraging use of Facebook (where friends have to be invited),
this would have been fine. As it was presented, he lost his
audience and thereby gutted his prevention message - in addition to
being a dick.
You can argue about the merits of this program (as well as Dare and
the DUI crap) - I think they're pointless. But WRT this case, he
was ineffective as well as cruel and should be reprimanded.
By the way, if there is a 16-yr. old girl alive who is unaware that
bent over in a T-shirt and shorts might be tittilating, her parents
should be smacked and she better be in a chastity belt. She's
already old enough to be Driving in Cars with Boys, or taking the
late night bus trip for school. I mean what the hell?
And TWC, let me know how that works out for you.
Jeff P -
She's a teenage good Christian girl. Just imagine how sensitive she
is and how inflated everyone around her probably sees every sin. I
wouldn't say he called her a slut, but I think that point is
irrelevant given that we know what he did do and say
There is so much wrong with the way this cop did his
presentation I won't bother to detail it.
Obviously the dumbass has no experience with H.S. girls. I
dare say that lack of experience incluses his own high school
days.
I agree, my point is that her outrage came from an "it's all about me" point of view, as it usually does when you're 16. He didn't call her a slut, or even come close.
By the way, if there is a 16-yr. old girl alive who is
unaware that bent over in a T-shirt and shorts might be
tittilating, her parents should be smacked and she better be in a
chastity belt
Regardless of whether she knew that (which is entirely possible),
she's still going to blow a gasket if you call her on it. Duh.
Calling her on it is basically calling her a trollop,
because you are saying "you did a provocative pose and knew it but
are pretending not to in order to have guys think you're
hot".
Frankly, I would have been astonished if she had had any
other reaction.
She's a teenage good Christian girl. Just imagine how
sensitive she is and how inflated everyone around her probably sees
every sin.
Good point, Reinmoose.
Also, Christian or no, teenage girls have to deal with the fact
that many, many people around them are (often creepily) obsessed
with their sexuality.
She probably spends a great deal of time convincing various people
she is conversely neither a prude nor a slut, so she's right to be
upset when someone groundlessly threatens her carefully balanced
reputation.
her outrage came from an "it's all about me" point of
view,
Being singled out as an example of an "internet ehibitionist" has
nothing to do with it.
Don't advertise the goods if you don't wanna make it with
hoods.
Let's hope this young "lady" learned her lesson.
"Obviously the dumbass has no experience with H.S. girls. I dare
say that lack of experience incluses his own high school
days."
That wasn't my fault - those stuck-up girls wouldn't even give me
the time of day. But now I'm getting my revenge.
You folks with real jobs are just jealous because I get paid to look up titillating pictures on the Internet.
I agree, my point is that her outrage came from an "it's all
about me" point of view, as it usually does when you're 16. He
didn't call her a slut, or even come close.
He didn't call her a slut -- he basically said she posted slutty
pictures. (which based on the description don't sound like
inherently slutty pictures) I don't see how that makes his actions
acceptable or how that makes the girl's reaction an
overreaction.
In the same way when a woman gets raped and the rapist says "well
she wanted it or else she wouldn't have dressed that way" or she
was "asking for it by dressing provocatively and acting flirty"
this douchebag cop was implying something similar. He was saying
that her pictures were asking someone to rape her.
The biggest problem with all of this, to me, is the idea that
people should restrict their actions however benign or innocent
because others MIGHT interpret it or use it in a way to
justify/excuse their own bad behavior.
How is what this cop did any different than telling a rape victim
"well if you dressed more modestly you might not have been a
victim".
People shouldn't be attacked/belittled/criticized for not altering
or basing their behavior in a way that takes into account the
degenerates and the assholes out there.
Just because I didn't lock my door one night doesn't mean that I am
asking someone to rob me. Regardless of whether my door is locked,
the thief is the problem, not the victim.
And he singled her out -- so yeah, it was "all about her" in this
particular instance.
The fact that a 16 year old girl interpreted "old men will
get off on your picture" as "you're a slut" illustrates to me that
the girl is a bit full of herself, as many 16 year old girls
are.
Why are you adding insult to injury?
I'm at a loss as to why this story offends you, and why, even after
all this, you would make the girl the guilty party.
Chicago Tom, thank you for catching this:
"And he singled her out -- so yeah, it was "all about her" in this
particular instance."
On the very narrow question of whether he directly called her a
"slut" or whether his words--taken in isolation--should be
interpreted that way, Jeff P. is right.
But with the context of "You're inviting men to rape you"
(paraphrase) and the full public humiliation aspect of this event,
it's clear that he was trying to imply some pretty nasty things
about her. Whether "slut" is the most precise description of what
he was implying, as opposed to some other very negative word, is
largely irrelevant. Given the stress she was under I can't fault
her for parsing the word "slut" out of it as opposed to some other
negative word.
Bottom line: He needlessly, unfairly, and very blatantly humiliated
her in public, and assigned very negative (and unwarranted!) sexual
interpretations to her actions. The fact that in this moment of
distress she inferred "slut" from his character assault, as opposed
to some other (perhaps more accurate) word, is completely
irrelevant.
EDIT to first sentence: "...Jeff P. may be
right."
I can't help but think that if this guy hadn't been a cop, and he
had confronted a teenage girl with "You're inviting rape"
(paraphrase) as an interpretation of a MySpace profile, right now
he'd be in jail.
First the students at Windsor High School had to attend an
assembly on Internet safety from Cheyenne, Wyoming, Police Officer
John Gay.
After that, they were called in to a lecture on the proper use of
firearms, given by the cops of "Reno 911!"
So, this cop, John Gay by name, who's an expert at internet safety, would he be the John F. Gay III who lives at 4502 Darnell Place in Cheyenne, Wyoming? Presumably not, because he knows all about controlling information on the internet, so I wouldn't ever find him.
"Ty says Gay told the students that older men would be
masturbating to her picture. "
It takes one to know one. $100 says Officer Asshole was beating off
to the girls picture in his cop car, just before he entered the
school.
The fact that a 16 year old girl interpreted "old men will
get off on your picture" as "you're a slut" illustrates to me that
the girl is a bit full of herself, as many 16 year old girls
are.
He said that she dresses and acts in a way that makes guys want to
have sex with her - and he seemed to imply that she did it on
purpose.
I don't know what they called it at your high school, but
generally, a girl who intentionally dresses and acts in ways to get
guys to want to have sex with them are called sluts.
So while authority figures like Porter and Gay are warning
teenagers to look out for violent perverts who may use their online
information to kidnap and assault them, the real danger is both
more subtle and more obvious. The University of New Hampshire
researchers found that the teenagers most at risk of sexual
overtures from adults were those who "interacted online with
unknown people and also engaged in a high number of different risky
online behaviors," such as "having unknown people on a buddy list,
talking online to unknown people about sex, seeking pornography
online, [and] being rude or nasty online." In other words, it's not
simply a matter of posting personal information (which by itself
was not associated with an increased risk of come-ons) or putting
up a picture that might titillate a rapist (or a cop).
Actually, none of those online behaviors expose you to sexual abuse
by a predator. At all.
You know what exposes you to sexual abuse by a predator? Meeting in
real life. Having him come to your house, or your going to his
house, or consenting to meet him in public somewhere.
If you don't meet in real life, if you're in that 95% you're
totally safe.
So Officer Gay could have saved a lot of people's time and energy
and this young girl's sensibilities if he shortened his
presentation to "Post whatever you want, flirt all you want - hell,
tease if you want - but never meet anyone in real life for any
reason whatsoever." Presentation over. Thank you, good night.
It is not reasonable to think that the girl in question did not
post that particular photo because she thought it was either "hot"
or at least "cute" (and either way attractive. That her peers that
she wishes to impress see it and say "hey, she's hot" or at least
"lookin' good!" is exactly why the photo is there.
It is reasonable that she did not consider that older men,
criminals and others would be lusting after her and jerking off to
her photo.
However, in this day and age, that particular fact of the
intertubes is becoming increasingly hard to be ignorant of.....
Maybe its a generational thing, but when I was in high school (the '70s) a girl had to actually put out frequently, and not be too particular with whom, to obtain that title. Anything short of that was simply a "tease."
As someone who was in high school only a decade ago, I can guarantee that the word "slut" is used by teenagers very loosely. I know because I (ashamedly) used the word myself when talking about girls who "dressed that way."
Kellie,
As someone who was in high school this decade, I would agree that
the term slut is used often.
Jeff,
I would say the broader definition arises from the assumption that
those girls are putting out. The tease that you describe was a very
rare breed (at least at my school), so she would probably be
assumed to be screwing around.
I just read through the comments on the News 9 site and I need
to take a shower. Ninety percent of the responses are from creepy
authoritarians supporting John F. Gay III in his sado-pervy
crusade. The comments are dripping with sexual projection, concern
trolling, taliban-esque shaming and a pervasive belief that
everyone else in the world is a pedophile.
These people love a Daddy figure. If the good officer had decided
to rape a student onstage at the assembly (just "to teach her a
lesson," of course), it would probably merely reduce his internet
approval rating by half.
"Something like 95 percent of sex crimes that involve the
Internet also involve the knowing cooperation of the victim.
"
How is that a crime?
Don't forget after Officer Oink attacked her in public she went crying from the room. He then called her on her cellphone and posted her phone number for everyone in the assembly to see. He demanded that she return for more humiliation. She is now getting harassing phone calls because this creep gave out her phone number.
How consensual sexual affairs can be construed as acts of 'predation' is beyond me. Regardless of how creepy and non-conducive to heterosexual monogamy they may seem to you, the truth is they are almost always more painful for the parents, who have lost the virginity of their most precious assets, then they are to the teens, who are much smarter and more loving than most people will ever give them credit for. This is especially true when the affairs involve hot teenage boys, who rarely get pregnant.
Just when you think cops can't get more evil and sadistic.
There really needs to be an examination of who exactly we're
attracting to the business of law enforcement. it's seems that is
loaded with ex-jocks, bullies and sociopaths.
At least she'll have one thing burned into her memory by this
incident. Officer Friendly isn't your friend. He's a fascist thug
with a gun and the power of the state out to abuse and destroy you.
He's your enemy.
At least she'll have one thing burned into her memory by
this incident. Officer Friendly isn't your friend. He's a fascist
thug with a gun and the power of the state out to abuse and destroy
you. He's your enemy.
I think it is more likely that she'll learn only two things from
this incident:
1. Officer Gay is a douchebag
2. Not to post on MySpace
Neither lesson need achieve the abstraction you assign. I doubt
heavily she will generalize it to all cops from this one douchebag.
But, who knows? Maybe she will.
Jeff P., perhaps if there weren't an elaborate, unrelenting, culture-wide system of social control that uses the entire range of emotional manipulation (humiliation, guilt, aggressive 'disappointment', etc.) and even outright violence and intimidation to police women's sexuality, maybe then we could take Officer Gay's friendly "heads up" as something harmless. But we're talking about the real world here.
Look: The officer merely wanted to protect a 16-year-old girl from being harassed, publicly humiliated and sexually traumatized by some sleazy sexual predator. Having a cop do it first totally pre-empted this.
Elemenope: "I think I'm suffering from a disease called "Outrage
Fatigue Syndrome". Normally, adults treating a captive audience of
*not adults* this way would get my blood up. But I'm just vaguely
irritated that the assembled kids didn't just rise as one and slay
him. Or, barring that, just walk out en masse."
Or better yet, slay him and then rape her. They were _both_ asking
for it :). But better if she escapes and they burn LA... I can see
her slight blonde head bobbing above the waves, glinting like a
foiled cork, an ineradicable and unsinkable bit of detritus in this
second flood, and modern plague.
Or maybe the cop was just a douche and should be fired. Either way,
this is pretty funny as well as being a bit disturbing. If it were
my daughter, or sister, or acquaintance, I'd want to take the cop
out and have a long painful sado-masochistic talk with him.
I plan to solve the problem by locking my daughter in the basement when she finishes fifth grade. She can come out when she's thirty.
Didn't someone more or less try that in Austria? <ducks>
Untermensch: I'm afraid you're geographically a bit off- this
young girl's famous diaries were written in Amsterdam, and the
measures you refer to can only be said to have worked in that she
never went on myspace after the start of her confinement. All
available evidence indicates that she remained something of a
flirt. It could be called a limited victory in that there are no
records that indicate that she became much of a tart in later
life.
But I should caution you- you might offend some people by alluding
to her case in this context.
It's always hard to tell if someone is deliberately misunderstanding your deliberate misunderstandings. Such is life, I suppose.
bubiyuqn:
a reporter in Amsterdam writing about Austria?
sher. geography much?
the cop fuqd up. not fun. not nice. not generational. singling out
a teen for that sort of thing is awful and wrong.
blaming the victim is really messed up.
of course... looking at his relationships, i guess
it's not surprising.
whether, for example, he claimed to have shown Shaylah's
photograph to an imprisoned sex offender, who said he would use it
as a masturbatory aid and added that if he ever met Shaylah he
would "tear her up."
If this turns out to be true, it's the wackiest idea ever. A cop
showing myspace picks of teens to a sex offender--
"How about this one? Would you rape her? This one? Too chubby? Ok,
this one, rape or just sexual assault? This one here?"
If I was Shaylah's father, I would file a complaint against John Gay for downloading kiddie porn. I'm sure Mr. Gay's defense attorney would start explaining how innocent the picture is as soon as he gets the court summons.
"""Bottom line: He needlessly, unfairly, and very blatantly
humiliated her in public, and assigned very negative (and
unwarranted!) sexual interpretations to her actions."""
Isn't that defamation of character?
I live in Windsor. This story has been blown way out of
proportion. Ask some kids, they'll say Gay said This and This and
This. Ask other kids from the same assembly, and they'll say he
never said This and This and This.
The high school has hosted an after-school session for students to
come and talk about what happened. One student showed up. It's the
same old same old. Lots of uproar and opinions based on rumor and
gossip.
I wasn't at the presentation, but my kid was, and he stated the
obvious: What we were told in that assembly is nothing anyone with
half a brain doesn't already know.
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