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"Always Think Forfeiture"
Earlier this year, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives put out a request for bids to produce a bunch of Leathermans for ATF trainees. Part of the request was that the Leathermans be inscribed with the phrase "Always Think Forfeiture," a reminder to the agents-in-training of what the agency apparently sees as its most important task.
The plan was halted after objections from Idaho Rep. William Sali. Sali is now introducing legislation preventing any federal agency from pushing a forfeiture-first mentality on its agents.
Well, at least overtly.
Taktix®|6.9.08 @ 3:31PM|#
I'm still trying to figure out why we have an agency that polices legal items...
Workbreak 2|6.9.08 @ 3:44PM|#
These training aids were designed to increase awareness of
the asset forfeiture concept so that persons who do not regularly
employ the strategy as part of a criminal investigation might be
reminded to consider it.
Anyone come up with any examples where they didn't "employ" the
concept of theft?
x,y|6.9.08 @ 3:44PM|#
What a half-assed measure. Rep. Sali wants to stop the marketing problem. Nary a word, though, about the root problem.
|6.9.08 @ 3:47PM|#
...why we have an agency that polices legal
items...
Not all alcohol, tobacco, firearms, or explosives are
legal--certainly not the ones which evade taxes.
See also the ATF's friendly July
4th message about all of your favorite (and illegal)
fireworks.
Episiarch|6.9.08 @ 3:51PM|#
Not all alcohol, tobacco, firearms, or explosives are
legal--certainly not the ones which evade taxes.
Right. And if an 18-year-old buys some liquor or somebody is
selling untaxed smokes out of a truck in Queens, who deals with
them? Not the ATF.
BATFE is utterly superfluous and should be disbanded, with
prejudice.
Taktix®|6.9.08 @ 3:54PM|#
See also the ATF's friendly July 4th message about all of
your favorite (and illegal) fireworks.
Ooooo!
Someone might get a hold of some sparklers without a gub'ment
stamp. Can't have that.
|6.9.08 @ 4:01PM|#
In all situations where the state profits from enforcing the law, you have abuse.
|6.9.08 @ 4:02PM|#
But for the badge, these guys are just the same thing as the armed toughs that worked for the mob to make sure the mob got its cut of the action?
Mike Laursen|6.9.08 @ 4:05PM|#
What a half-assed measure. Rep. Sali wants to stop the
marketing problem. Nary a word, though, about the root
problem.
I'd actually prefer that they advertise what they're really up to
right there on their leatherman tools, their t-shirts, and their
vehicles.
PC|6.9.08 @ 4:06PM|#
Always Think Funding
After Their Freedoms
Authoritarian Trained Fascists
Add The Fire
Always Trespassing Freely
Apaulogist|6.9.08 @ 4:22PM|#
"In all situations where the state profits from enforcing the
law, you have abuse."-Warren
And in all situations where the state doesn't profit, you have
neglect.
|6.9.08 @ 4:23PM|#
Rep. William Sali,
Here's some revolutionary thinking for you since your staff is too
fucking stupid to do it. What if agencies that gain asset
forfeitures did not benefit from them. What if it just went back
into the treasury? Do you think their just might be less
abuse?
No charge, congressman. I consider doing your thinking for you a
public service.
First Little Pig|6.9.08 @ 4:28PM|#
I'm sure whatever is left from that leatherman order can go to
the IRS or DEA.
I hates me some government.
KenK|6.9.08 @ 4:30PM|#
Why the fuss? Didn't the Sheriff of Nottingham have have something similar on the henchmen's swords?
Ken Hagler|6.9.08 @ 4:46PM|#
There's an old joke that in a free country, "Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" would be the name of a convenience store.
LarryA|6.9.08 @ 5:02PM|#
What if agencies that gain asset forfeitures did not benefit
from them. What if it just went back into the treasury? Do you
think their just might be less abuse?
Do you really think that giving Congress access to the proceeds
will reduce the incentive for abuse?
Somehow I just can't see the representatives saying, "You're
sending us too much money."
John Markley|6.9.08 @ 5:36PM|#
This immediately made me think of Alec Baldwin's "Always Be Closing" tirade from Glengarry, Glen Ross. It takes brass balls to confiscate property...
ktc2|6.9.08 @ 5:43PM|#
No, it takes no balls, merely evil laws writen by evil men and
enforced by evil men.
There is NO EXCUSE for our current forfeiture charade. It's just
theft.
Travis|6.9.08 @ 6:08PM|#
"I'd actually prefer that they advertise what they're really up
to right there on their leatherman tools, their t-shirts, and their
vehicles."
I agree.
Instead of "To Protect & Serve" on the squad car it should say
"To Be Feared & Obeyed".
|6.9.08 @ 6:09PM|#
Hey, great for him. Shame on the Democrats for not coming up with this (I did not look it up but I assume an elected official from Idaho is a Republican).
|6.9.08 @ 6:11PM|#
Asset forfieture is a terrible thing. It may suprise some people here but I think its bullshit for the State to be able to take someone's property under a lower standard than reasonable doubt through a civil action. Property is right up there with life and liberty in the 5th and 14th Amendment. It's last (of the three, reasonably I should say) but still there.
TallDave|6.9.08 @ 6:15PM|#
Runner-up slogan:
"Asses To Fuck"
Also considered: "Awesomely Tipping Federales" and "All The
Finest"
h-dawg|6.9.08 @ 6:29PM|#
"Sali is now introducing legislation preventing any federal
agency from pushing a forfeiture-first mentality on its
agents."
You will ignore your clear incentives provided by my colleagues!
You will not act in your personal best interest as we intend you to
do! Any questions?
Apaulogist|6.9.08 @ 6:47PM|#
"Why the fuss? Didn't the Sheriff of Nottingham have have
something similar on the henchmen's swords?"-KenK
The Sheriff was fighting that wealth redistrubutionist Robin Hood.
He should have been the hero. Alan Rickman is a much better actor
than Costner.
|6.9.08 @ 7:37PM|#
"The Sheriff was fighting that wealth redistrubutionist Robin
Hood. He should have been the hero. Alan Rickman is a much better
actor than Costner." -Apaulogist
The Sheriff was also raping the people ala-Medieval Democrat.
As for the ATF, I have always like this acronym: Assholes Taking
Freedoms
|6.9.08 @ 7:55PM|#
Not that I agree with the whole concept of the ATF but following
what you say we need to get the State patrol off of the roads as
cars are legal to.
Just saying.
Taktix® | June 9, 2008, 3:31pm | #
I'm still trying to figure out why we have an agency that polices
legal items...
Elemenope|6.9.08 @ 8:22PM|#
Not that I agree with the whole concept of the ATF but
following what you say we need to get the State patrol off of the
roads as cars are legal too.
Speeding isn't. State patrol isn't called the "Cars & Bikes
Squad" for nothing you know. They are putatively policing a
particular behavior, not mere ownership of a particular legal
good.
But please don't take this to mean I think that they should be
doing that either. Fuck speed limits and highway patrols; there is
no more common and corrosive irritant to freedom than the garden
variety traffic stop (and also next to nothing more dangerous to
the police officer, too).
Elemenope|6.9.08 @ 8:23PM|#
And since that whole second sentence means exactly the opposite of what I intended, I shall now smack myself in the face.
|6.9.08 @ 8:31PM|#
Where is the Libertarian militia?
People, PATROITS, WAKE UP.
WE ARE IN A CIVIL WAR.
It is not to late YET.
FilmCritic|6.9.08 @ 8:37PM|#
"Alan Rickman is a much better actor than Costner."
A cardboard lobby stand of Shrek is a much better actor than
Costner.
"Unlike SOME Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent!" --
Cary Elwes
Apaulogist|6.9.08 @ 9:25PM|#
My favorite game is "spot the liberal propaganda in the Costner
movie"
Waterworld: Global warming! the badguys are "smokers" with internal
combustion engines. The good guy has a sailboat.
Dances with Wolves: Whitey is evil!
White guys may have destroyed the plains horse culture, but we also
created it. There were no horses in North America befor the
conquistadors.
The Postman:American greatness is because of government
services!
Field of Dreams: ignore the market! If you built it, they will
come!
Play along, it's fun!
FilmCritic|6.9.08 @ 10:49PM|#
"My favorite game is "spot the liberal propaganda in the Costner
movie""
Not much into challenges are you? That's like shooting fish in a
baggie from a pet shop.
Myself, I keep hoping that all of these actors will finally do what
they promised, and "leave the country if _________ is elected!"
Mike Laursen|6.9.08 @ 11:08PM|#
The Postman:American greatness is because of government
services!
The original novel, The Postman, was written by
libertarian author, David Brin. He chose the postman as the central
character because he symbolizes civil society.
SIV|6.9.08 @ 11:22PM|#
I don't know about Brin being "libertarian" but The
Postman was disgustingly communitarian in theme.Got a
fine/fine HB from a thrift store for .50c
I threw it away so no one else would have to read that particular
copy. Horrible book, saved me from ever picking up another Brin
though.
Apaulogist|6.10.08 @ 12:54AM|#
I thought of a great movie concept: ACLU member joins the Police
Force, but then I though, oh wait. They already made TRAINING
DAY.
:-(
Kaganspawn|6.10.08 @ 1:46AM|#
Forfeiture doctrine is execrable law, so down with the jack-booted thugs. Neil and his foul offspring gave this one a wide berth. Someone was waxing mightily eloquent before the mild episode of cerebral flatulence ('there is no more common and corrosive irritant to freedom than the garden variety traffic stop')
|6.10.08 @ 8:36AM|#
I always thought that ATF stood for:
"A bunch of shit-eating fuckheads that deserve to have their cocks
ripped off and shoved down their throats."
Hmm, guess that has a few more letters than "ATF" though...
|6.10.08 @ 9:00AM|#
and maybe even libertarians, I'm not really sure, you guys
are pretty strange, I can never figure out where to put you
guys
That whole "liberty" and "freedom" thing just confuses the hell out
of people.
Kenneth P. Turvey|6.10.08 @ 10:12AM|#
Asset forfiture isn't wrong in and of itself. If it were used to
confiscate the assets of convicted criminals that were actually
doing something wrong and had earned the proceeds through a
continuing criminal enterprise, I don't think any of us would
object.
The problem is that they don't require a conviction and most of the
time the offender wasn't really doing anything wrong.
The ATF should be completely disbanded. Right after the DEA.
|6.10.08 @ 12:02PM|#
The people who work in these agencies and use forfeiture and
other execrable methods when "just doing their jobs" need to be
publicly shamed.
Their neighbors should know that Tom from down the street just took
a family's home away, or took an older persons retirement account-
and didn't return anything once the person proved themselves
innocent. Cause that's not his job you know.
I would like to know if swat member or ATF thug lived near me.
ed|6.10.08 @ 12:06PM|#
The Untouchables:
Government outlaws alcohol and wonders why bootlegging becomes
popular with gangster types. Hilarity ensues.
|6.10.08 @ 12:46PM|#
Where is the Libertarian militia?
People, PATROITS, WAKE UP.
WE ARE IN A CIVIL WAR.
It is not to late YET.
Terry, you tell me when and where, and I'll bring my rifle.
Let's get this thing rolling!
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