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Give Up the Toad Now
This just in from the
Associated Press: "Law enforcement authorities have discovered that
people are willing to go to great lengths to get high." If that's a
recent discovery, it explains a lot about drug policy in America.
The particular high on which the A.P. story focuses is the
smoking of bufotenine, a
psychedelic that can be obtained from the toxin of the Sonoran
Desert toad. The government has not banned possession of
the toad, only possession of it with knowledge
of its psychoactive potential, which transforms the toad
into "drug paraphernalia":
In October, a Kansas City man was charged with possessing a controlled substance after Clay County authorities determined he possessed a toad with the intent to use its venom to get high.
Clay County Prosecutor Daniel White said possessing the toad is not illegal, but using it to get high off its venom is.
"It is easier to get it, and law enforcement might not immediately know you use it to get high," White said. "It's sort of a New Age way to get high. You convince yourself it is OK because it is something you get naturally from our environment.
"There are a lot of things that are created naturally but they are still not legal," he said.
Evidently God committed some serious felonies when He created all those psychoactive plants and animals. Manufacturing with intent to distribute on such a massive scale probably would trigger a life sentence even for Him.
Gilding the frog, A.P. throws in an urban legend about "jenkem," a drug "made from fermented feces and urine" that Vicky Ward, manager of prevention services at Tri-County Mental Health Services in Kansas City, has read about in "email warnings." A.P. concedes that "whether people actually use jenkem has not been determined."
[Thanks to Matt Jones for the tip.]
|12.5.07 @ 5:00PM|#
Dear Santa,
All I want for Christmas is some way to quickly check if something
is a fact or just a rumor.
Thanks,
Your Bud,
AP
Sean|12.5.07 @ 5:10PM|#
I'd rather go with Morning Glory seeds, perfectly legal and Chock full O' LSA.
Seer|12.5.07 @ 5:15PM|#
Evidently God committed some serious felonies when he
created all those psychoactive plants and animals. Manufacturing
with intent to distribute on such a massive scale probably would
trigger a life sentence even for Him.
Well, it's not like the government is afraid of wasting the
resources needed to incarcerate God for eternity.
|12.5.07 @ 5:17PM|#
"Mr. Toad, how many licks of you does it take to get to the
center of a Rhode Island state prison?"
"JUST ONE"
Ah, the days when Family Guy was still funny.
|12.5.07 @ 5:17PM|#
Keep your hands where I can see them and step away from the
toad?
Don't bogart that toad?
A toad high?
Happier than a hippie in the Sonoran Desert?
You can have my toad when you pry it from my cold, dead
fingers?
Police confiscated nine toads, with an estimated street value of
$137 million dollars?
He ain't heavy, he's my toad?
Don't mess with the toad?
Pardon me while I kiss the toad?
Toad tokin', the only way to fly?
Toadally, dude, toadally?
miche|12.5.07 @ 5:18PM|#
The government has not banned possession of the toad, only possession of it with knowledge of its psychoactive potential, which transforms the toad into "drug paraphernalia"
Wow. Anyone who's read the AP article can no longer legally possess
this toad as we all now have knowledge of its psychoactive
potential.
|12.5.07 @ 5:25PM|#
Sonoran Desert toads? Are those the ones I hear out here in Phoenix croaking after it rains? Guess I'll be heading out to the desert with a shovel this weekend.
|12.5.07 @ 5:25PM|#
I'd rather go with Morning Glory seeds, perfectly legal and
Chock full O' LSA.
Warning - To discourage use today, commercial seed producers treat
the seeds with a poisonous coating which cannot be removed by
washing. The effects from this coating cause nausea, comiting (sic)
and severe abdominal pain. Extremely high doses cause psychotic
reactions, heart failure, and shock.
I got this info
here, and do not vouch for the recipes also provided.
|12.5.07 @ 5:33PM|#
Well, this does provide an answer to the question of 'what were
they thinking when they named the town Toad Suck Ferry?'
...
hugs,
Shirley Knott
Christopher Monnier|12.5.07 @ 5:36PM|#
Logical fallacy alert!
"It is easier to get it, and law enforcement might not immediately know you use it to get high," White said. "It's sort of a New Age way to get high. You convince yourself it is OK because it is something you get naturally from our environment.
"There are a lot of things that are created naturally but they are still not legal," he said.
He cleverly (or probably unknowingly) presumes that whether
something is "OK" is correlated with whether it is legal. By his
logic, it's morally acceptable to get fall-down drunk every night
(as long as you don't drive, it's legal) and not okay to speed to
save someone's life (it's never okay to speed, according
to the law).
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 5:37PM|#
You convince yourself it is OK because it is something you
get naturally from our environment.
Okay, understand this: The toad is trying to KILL
you! It's a defense mechanism you moron, exactly as all
natural and environmentally friendly as a rattlesnake bite.
How incredibly f*cking bored does one have to be to lick the
excreted toxins of an amphibian? Get a god damn hobby!
I say we generically engineer yeast to produce all the
psychotropins anyone could want in a warm jar of sugar water under
the sink, mail a sample with instructions to every household in
American and let Darwin sort it out.
A lot of people will die but if I don't have to read stories about
cops chasing kids with toads it will be worth every life.
Tacos mmm...|12.5.07 @ 5:38PM|#
Warning - To discourage use today, commercial seed producers treat the seeds with a poisonous coating which cannot be removed by washing.
Obviously this coating would be gone by the second generation. The
lesson is, as always, grow your own.
|12.5.07 @ 5:39PM|#
I say we generically engineer yeast to produce all the psychotropins anyone could want in a warm jar of sugar water under the sink, mail a sample with instructions to every household in American and let Darwin sort it out.
It's only a matter of time before the genes to produce cannabanoids
start showing up in centipede grass, kudzu and tomatoes.
|12.5.07 @ 5:41PM|#
I had a T-shirt featuring our trippy amphibian friend. I was
wearing it at a street fair (Fry Street Fair, R.I.P) in college. I
was also tripping my face of on good old-fashioned blotter acid. I
had wandered off on my own and was checking out the handy wares of
some hippie merchant. Glass pipes, roach clips, hemp sandals or
some such thing. The proprietor of the stall, a particularly filthy
dirty hippie, leans over to me and says;
"So, I have you tried it?"
"Tried what?" I said.
"Your shirt. Have you tried it?"
"Oh. No. I just though the shirt was cool."
He leans in closer and says in an ominous tone of first hand
experience. "Total - Ego - Death."
I freaked the fuck out and ran away.
So I got that going for me.
|12.5.07 @ 5:42PM|#
I say we generically engineer yeast to produce all the
psychotropins anyone could want in a warm jar of sugar water under
the sink, mail a sample with instructions to every household in
American and let Darwin sort it out.
A lot of people will die but if I don't have to read stories about
cops chasing kids with toads it will be worth every
life.
Shannon, I like the way you think.
|12.5.07 @ 5:43PM|#
How incredibly f*cking bored does one have to be to lick the
excreted toxins of an amphibian? Get a god damn hobby!
Um, it kind of seems like that's exactly what they did.
|12.5.07 @ 5:46PM|#
How incredibly f*cking bored does one have to be to lick the
excreted toxins of an amphibian? Get a god damn hobby!
Actually, according to the little pamphlet that came with my
T-shirt, you get the toad to excrete the venom by scaring it. Then
you dry the venom and smoke it. It is supposed to give you an
incredibly intense, short-lived acid like experience followed by a
sustained feeling of bliss.
Just saying.
LarryA|12.5.07 @ 5:47PM|#
Princess Aurora: "But officer, I wasn't trying to get high. I just wanted a prince to marry."
Paco|12.5.07 @ 5:49PM|#
I can vouch from personal experieince that one morning glory seed will produce thousands of new seeds that are surely not "coated". I grow them in my back-yard for the pretty flowers. They are self seeding and grow like a weed. I've never tried it, but I understand you are more likly to die than get high. In addition to being safe and effective, MJ is easy to grow (but more likly to attract unwanted attention).
LibertyPlease|12.5.07 @ 5:49PM|#
In the interest of brevity, would H&R please only blog about the remaining (diminishing) activities that are legal?
John|12.5.07 @ 5:50PM|#
I finally get Aaron Sorkin's Sports Night! It's a comedy that's too good to be funny!
|12.5.07 @ 5:54PM|#
This really is excellent news! I was worried that we would have
to import cane toads from Australia.
Balance of trade and all that.
LibertyPlease|12.5.07 @ 5:54PM|#
Actually, in the interest of maintaining your readership, you should only blog about the remaining legal activities. To do otherwise pisses us off (understandably), and we unwittingly comment with Homegrown Terror.
|12.5.07 @ 5:56PM|#
In the interest of brevity, would H&R please only blog
about the remaining (diminishing) activities that are
legal?
Praying and screwing,in the missionary position with your
government recognized spouse, doesn't seem like it would hold
interest for long.
|12.5.07 @ 5:59PM|#
Jenkem, eh? I know what I'm doing tonight. Honey, whip out the fabreeze; it' gonna get funky in here.
|12.5.07 @ 5:59PM|#
There should be no law against snorting Jenkem. That's because being a Jenkem junkie is punishment enough!
LibertyPlease|12.5.07 @ 6:01PM|#
Praying and screwing,in the missionary position with your government recognized spouse, doesn't seem like it would hold interest for long.
Hmmm.... those seem to be heavily regulated (must acknowledge
jeebus on money, must not in a school, etc. Alabama hasn't made up
it's mind about screwing...).
Guess we should take what they give us... If only
they worked for us, that would be
awesome.
Nigel Watt|12.5.07 @ 6:09PM|#
The Jenkem myth started on &TOTSE, a combination of a BBS and what is believed to be the world's largest repository of text files. In the "Better Living through Chemistry" forum, one user claimed to have produced and created jenkem and then gotten high off of it. He later said that he faked it, but the pictures have apparently escaped into the wild.
|12.5.07 @ 6:11PM|#
Evidently God committed some serious felonies when he
created all those psychoactive plants and animals. Manufacturing
with intent to distribute on such a massive scale probably would
trigger a life sentence even for Him.
I thought you heathens believed in evolution rather than special
creation.
LibertyPlease|12.5.07 @ 6:14PM|#
I thought you heathens believed in evolution rather than special creation.
er, making fun of the fact that the jeebus-worshipping crowd are
the biggest promoters of this nonsense.
|12.5.07 @ 6:14PM|#
Warning - To discourage use today, commercial seed producers
treat the seeds with a poisonous coating which cannot be removed by
washing. The effects from this coating cause nausea, comiting (sic)
and severe abdominal pain. Extremely high doses cause psychotic
reactions, heart failure, and shock.
No offense, J_D, but I'm very skeptical of that. That would be a
million-dollar lawsuit waiting to happen.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 6:29PM|#
Matt J,
It is supposed to give you an incredibly intense, short-lived
acid like experience followed by a sustained feeling of
bliss.
So will jamming an electrode in your brain, what's your point?
|12.5.07 @ 6:32PM|#
never tried it, but i'm pretty sure morning glories have a
tryptamine like DMT in them, NOT LSA. and you'd need an MAOI
inhibitor to metabolize it anyway, even if you smoked it.
the toads only work because they have a natural MAO inhibitor. The
trip is very similar to ayahusca tea, except much shorter.
|12.5.07 @ 6:34PM|#
Shannon Love,
If i wanna shove an electrode in my brain it's none of your fucking
business. IT'S MY BRAIN, NOT YOURS.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 6:37PM|#
crimethink,
The seeds aren't necessarily treated, The seeds themselves are
poisonous. Like all chemicals in plants, the concentration of
psychotropins in any particular plant can vary by upwards of 5
degrees of magnitude (100,000 times) from plant to plant. The
effect is especially dangerous with the lysergic compounds in
morning glory which produce effects in very tiny quantities. It
would be impossible to know exactly what dosage one was getting in
any particular batch of seeds.
Many commercial seeds are treated with mercury or pesticides to
prevent the seeds from being destroyed by insects in the ground.
Such treated seeds have distinct warnings on them.
nebby|12.5.07 @ 6:37PM|#
Shannon,
You don't drink, smoke, eat chocolate, have sex, take valium,
engage in religion, or do anything exciting, all in order to avoid
altered states?
Have fun with that.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 6:40PM|#
Pinette,
If i wanna shove an electrode in my brain it's none of your
fucking business. IT'S MY BRAIN, NOT YOURS.
I didn't say it was business. I do reserve the right to call you an
idiot and to bill your estate for the cost of removing your corpse
from my tomatoes when your idiotic pursuit mindless pleasure leads
you to impale yourself on a garden stake a 3am some Saturday
night.
Beyond that, I say let Darwin sort it out. Nothing cures stupidity
like freedom.
BakedPenguin|12.5.07 @ 6:41PM|#
That would be a million-dollar lawsuit waiting to happen.
crimethink - I don't think it would - because it's in support of
our wonderful public policy goals. If you're old enough, you might
remember our wonderful drug warriors using paraquat
on marijuana plants - to attempt to deter use.
With the side effects of paraquat in mind, think about the mindset
of someone willing to risk doing that to another human being for
the sole purpose of stopping them from smoking pot.
|12.5.07 @ 6:50PM|#
Shannon,
Somehow I don't believe you. I may be wrong but I bet you support
the drug war.
just something in your tone... but again, maybe I'm wrong.
|12.5.07 @ 6:51PM|#
No offense, J_D, but I'm very skeptical of that. That would
be a million-dollar lawsuit waiting to happen.
None taken. This is taken from a more traditional
source
Although the seeds are legal, there is an additional danger in
that many of the commercially packaged seeds are treated with a
poisonous coating to deter recreational drug use. This coating can
cause nausea, vomiting and severe abdominal pain.
|12.5.07 @ 6:53PM|#
I do reserve the right to call you an idiot and to bill your estate for the cost of removing your corpse from my tomatoes when your idiotic pursuit mindless pleasure leads you to impale yourself on a garden stake a 3am some Saturday night.
Woah!!! That there rotting body is darned good tomato fertilizer.
Didn't you see The Last
Supper?
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 6:57PM|#
nebby,
You don't drink, smoke, eat chocolate, have sex, take valium,
engage in religion, or do anything exciting, all in order to avoid
altered states?
As a rule I don't do anything thing to substantially reduces my
ability to apprehend and respond to my actual environment. I could
in theory drink enough coffee to give me caffeine psychosis but I
don't just like I can drink a glass of wine without getting
drunk.
Its a matter of scale. Jumping off the garden wall is fun, jumping
off a skyscrapper is suicidal. Moderation is the key.
I do find it interesting that you associate normal activities such
as sex as leading to an "altered state" That would seem to imply
that you consider the normal day-to-day variations in ones levels
of excitation as intolerably boring.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 7:05PM|#
Pinette,
Somehow I don't believe you. I may be wrong but I bet you
support the drug war.
just something in your tone... but again, maybe I'm
wrong.
That's because most people with strong opinions about the wisdom of
this or that behavior cannot resist the urge to use the coercive
power of the state to force others to conform to their
ideals.
I can.
I don't think the state can save people from their own lack of
character and self-restraint. In fact, I think that the state
effectively enables self-destructive behavior by slowing the harm
it causes. If everyone had unlimited access to mind altering drugs
it would become very apparent to the survivors that dicking around
with one's neurotransmitters just because it felt good was
stupid.
Like I said, noting cures stupidity like freedom. I raised my
children with the expectation that they could obtain any quantities
of any drugs they wanted and could kill themselves with them if
they so chose to do so. Only their conscious choices will keep them
alive in such an environment.
Evolving technology will so make it possible for people to
synthesize large amounts of psychoactive compounds in the privacy
of their own homes. People will either have the strength or
foresight to resist the temptation to destroy themselves or they
won't. I don't see any practical alternative.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 7:07PM|#
Kwix,
Woah!!! That there rotting body is darned good tomato
fertilizer.
I tried that argument but apparently by common law a corpse belongs
to the estate no matter where it ends up.
|12.5.07 @ 7:20PM|#
Okay, understand this: The toad is trying to KILL you! It's a defense mechanism you moron, exactly as all natural and environmentally friendly as a rattlesnake bite.
How incredibly f*cking bored does one have to be to lick the excreted toxins of an amphibian? Get a god damn hobby!
Actually, the toad isn't trying to KILL you. You
are correct that bufotenine is most likely a defense mechanism, but
one designed to disorient and discourage future consumption more so
than kill. Most likely the same principal is behind the mechanisms
of LSA of morning glory and hawaiian woodrose seeds, ibotenic acid
and muscimol of the agaric mushroom family, psilocybin of the
psilocybin mushroom family, nicotine in the nicotiana family of
plants(including tobacco), THC in cannabis sativa, caffiene in
kola, camellia(tea) and coffee, even the "heat" producing compound
capsaicin in chili peppers.
In other words, most recreational drugs and many spices are or were
originally, naturally produced toxins designed to discourage
consumption by insects or higher animals.
Many of these toxins interact with the chemistries of different
animals differently. In particular, many substances that are deadly
to certain insects (nicotine, caffeine) produce markedly different
effects in mammals (vascular constriction, alertness). Conversely,
many toxins that are targeted towards mammals (including humans)
(capsaicin) do not affect other members of the animal kingdom
(birds in this example).
That humans discovered the psychoactive effects of consuming
certain plants and animals and learned to harness them for personal
use instead of running in fear is testament to the ingenuity of the
human brain. I'd say that discovering the world around you and
using it is a pretty damn fine hobby.
|12.5.07 @ 7:23PM|#
Shannon,
Ok. as insulting as your tone is, I have to admit I admire your
stance. You don't often come across someone who feels so strongly
about drug use and at the same time doesn't believe the government
should do anything about it.
that said, i am still insulted by the notion that only an idiot
would try to alter their conscientiousness. A VERY small percentage
people are teetotalers. The rest of us are stupid?
|12.5.07 @ 7:27PM|#
Shannon Love,
Not saying I would recommend drying toad venom to catch a buzz.
Much easier to score some shrooms. I was just correcting the toad
licking misconception. Of course I'd be the first to admit that
taking anything your read on a pamphlet that came with T-shirt
purchased at a head shop at face value is probably not the best
idea.
|12.5.07 @ 7:30PM|#
I do find it interesting that you associate normal activities such as sex as leading to an "altered state" That would seem to imply that you consider the normal day-to-day variations in ones levels of excitation as intolerably boring.
Technically, the endorphins released by certain activities,
including sex and running, act on the human body's opioid receptors
much as morphine or codeine do. Other activities that cause the
body to produce endorphins and release them in the bloodstream are
excitement, fear, or other forms of stress. Additionally, certain
other compounds, like capsaicin from chilis also trigger the
release of endorphins.
So yes, your mind and body during sex is (or should be) in an
"altered-state" of being.
|12.5.07 @ 7:34PM|#
Hey man, it's the cops, flush the toad man.
Can you get toad mouth?
I'm toad to the bone man.
Hey, want some toad? I got hypnotoad, zombietoad, gonzotoad, good
stuff.
|12.5.07 @ 7:36PM|#
Regarding my earlier morning glory post: With a little googling, it appears that the poisonous coating is a fungicide to protect the seeds. Internet shopping reveals seeds are for sale without said coating. if you want more info, hunt it up yourself, I quit hallucinogens quite some time ago.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 7:44PM|#
Pinette,
A VERY small percentage people are teetotalers. The rest of us
are stupid?
The first few people to try such substances were explorers feeling
out the boundaries of the possible. However. several centuries if
not millennia has shown us that randomly dumping neurotransmitter
altering substances into the brain produces no benefit that comes
even close to balancing out the harm. The experiment has been done
in other words.
Given the know hazards and the absence of non-illusional benefits
taking drugs is about as intelligent as playing russian
roulette.
Besides, don't raise strawman. People can use many psychoactive
substances such as alcohol without producing harm and even to their
benefit. You can't really say that about lysergic compounds.
We have pleasure and pain circuits to guide us through our
environment. Recreational drugs short circuit that mechanism
leaving us vulnerable. The risk is obvious.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 7:46PM|#
Kwix,
So yes, your mind and body during sex is (or should be) in an
"altered-state" of being.
So when when I am altered when I'm awake or when I am asleep. Brain
function differs significantly between the two states. Which is
"normal" and which is "altered."
The brain changes state all the time. That is how it works.
Comparing the normal variation in states to the effect produced by
alien chemicals is silly and if your honest with yourself, just a
rationalization.
Shannon Love|12.5.07 @ 7:51PM|#
Kwix,
I'd say that discovering the world around you and using it is a
pretty damn fine hobby.
Our brains are structured to seek out pleasurable experiences based
on the evolutionary experience of what behaviors leads to survival
and which do not.
Those circuits are implemented with certain chemicals which can be
mimicked, activated or suppressed by other chemicals.All drug users
are doing is using these chemicals to create a false signal.
That's it. Everything else is rationalization.
|12.5.07 @ 8:02PM|#
"Wow. Anyone who's read the AP article can no longer legally
possess this toad as we all now have knowledge of its psychoactive
potential."
and you are relying on the AP?!?!?!? for legal analysis. actually,
it is not illegal based on "knowledge" of its psychoactive
potential.
it's illegal if you intend to, and/or do possess it for use as a
psychoactive substance.
this is similar to the laws regarding opium poppies. legal to
possess. but illegal to harvest for psychoactive drugs.
heck, the same is true for spray paint. legal to possess. illegal
to possess (or purchase) with the intent to use it for
"huffing".
of course laws vary from state to state, but in no jurisdiction i
am aware of is it illegal to possess such a toad merely with
KNOWLEdGE that it CAN be used for psychoactive purposes. the media
almost NEVER gets legal analysis right, why should this be
different.
Sean|12.5.07 @ 8:03PM|#
I dunno what the fuck you guys are talking about.
Every experience I've had with psychedelics has been unbelievably
beneficial. Life changing, in fact.
But- Its also about set and setting.
- and, I happen to be awesome.
|12.5.07 @ 8:08PM|#
...millennia has shown us that randomly dumping
neurotransmitter altering substances into the brain produces no
benefit that comes even close to balancing out the harm.
When I did [a lot of] drugs, there was nothing
RANDOM about it. I've always known what I was
doing, when I was doing it, and took appropriate precautions. IOW,
no arrests, no hospitalizations, no addictions, no broken families.
I have spent some, but not excessive, amount of money that could
have been better used, but you can say that about going to the
ballgame or the symphony.
ed|12.5.07 @ 8:15PM|#
Didn't I read about this in High Times?
About 25 years ago?
Whoa...the colors!
|12.5.07 @ 8:23PM|#
Time for Mason Williams and "Them Toad Suckers."
http://www.hep.caltech.edu/macro/songs/mason.html
|12.5.07 @ 8:28PM|#
Sonoran Desert Toad?
Part of the Sonoran Desert is in Mexico. These toads must be
IllegalImmigrants who are stealing jobs from HardWorking
AmericanToads.
|12.5.07 @ 8:34PM|#
29 And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding
seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with
seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30 And to every
beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything
that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I
have given every green plant for food." And it was so.
Genesis 29-30
Now where's Pat Robertson on that literal interpretation of the
Bible?
Dan|12.5.07 @ 9:52PM|#
Licking Colorado River Toad will not get one high. One can however cop a buzz by smoking the dried excretion from the two large "warts" on the back of the toad's neck. While I have not indulged in this behavior myself, I have witnessed it. Those who smoked the toad reported an intense but brief psychedelic high. I have no idea how the toad felt.
|12.5.07 @ 9:54PM|#
The first few people to try such substances were explorers
feeling out the boundaries of the possible. However. several
centuries if not millennia has shown us that randomly dumping
neurotransmitter altering substances into the brain produces no
benefit that comes even close to balancing out the harm. The
experiment has been done in other words.
The benefit is simple recreational enjoyment, Shannon. No one needs
any higher purpose to justify their actions. Several millenia have
shown nothing about my subjective preferences or the preferences of
others, so to conclude that this subjective benefit cannot
conceivably outweigh the harm caused by these chemicals is pure
folly. No rationalization needed: People often harm their bodies
for pleasure, and that's just fine.
M|12.5.07 @ 10:05PM|#
The government has not banned possession of the toad, only possession of it with knowledge of its psychoactive potential, which transforms the toad into "drug paraphernalia"
Can a temporarily insane person be said to "know" things in the
conventional sense of the word?
thoreau|12.5.07 @ 10:39PM|#
I'd really like to know if the French have devised any recipes for these toads.
|12.5.07 @ 10:58PM|#
"It is easier to get it, and law enforcement might not
immediately know you use it to get high," White said. "It's sort of
a New Age way to get high. You convince yourself it is OK because
it is something you get naturally from our environment.
"There are a lot of things that are created naturally but they are
still not legal....," he said.
I imagine this guy continuing,
"...and the legal things, yeah, we're working on that too."
|12.5.07 @ 11:06PM|#
Now where's Pat Robertson on that literal interpretation of
the Bible?
Well if you want to be literal about it those verses pretty
explicitly say that we are to use them for food.
So smoking a doob is out, but pot brownies are totally cool with
the G Man.
|12.6.07 @ 12:03AM|#
@ fundamentalist:
Nightshade is a plant "yielding seed", but I sure wouldn't have it
for food.
Yes, a literal interpretation of the Bible could be quite
deadly.
BakedPenguin|12.6.07 @ 12:24AM|#
David - depends on the nightshade you're talking about. I'd bet $10 you've eaten some food from a nightshade plant within the last month.
|12.6.07 @ 12:31AM|#
You are quite correct. I meant to say deadly nightshade. I've definitely eaten potatoes and tomatoes in the last month. That would be a good bet for someone who didn't know better. :-)
Lowdog|12.6.07 @ 3:11AM|#
Shannon - since you've never tried something like LSD or
psilocybin, how can you definitively say it causes more harm than
benefit? And really, how much harm do these substances cause? Is it
a physical or mental harm, or both?
While I will admit that I have seen people lose it on psychedelic
drugs, they are definitely in a minority, and mostly likely had
some underlying mental issues to begin with. I appreciate that you
don't want to regulate it, but your argument against (some) drugs
(you said you are fine with alcohol in moderation) is, imo,
wrong.
|12.6.07 @ 6:39AM|#
I got this info here, and do not vouch for the recipes also
provided.
That's absolutely insane: in order to prevent people from ingesting
the non-lethal, merely psychoactive substance, they've got to
make it poisonous?
Tym|12.6.07 @ 8:57AM|#
That's absolutely insane: in order to prevent people from
ingesting the non-lethal, merely psychoactive substance, they've
got to make it poisonous?
That's kind of what denatured alcohol is about. Thougth alcohol is
only non-lethal in moderation.
LibertyPlease|12.6.07 @ 9:42AM|#
Yes, a literal interpretation of the Bible could be quite deadly.
Especially for all the types of folks Leviticus instructs you to
kill.
T|12.6.07 @ 10:35AM|#
Especially for all the types of folks Leviticus instructs
you to kill.
Given that I'm in that category for a number of reasons, Leviticus
always creeps me a out a little.
|12.6.07 @ 10:37AM|#
Aside from the fact that without "dumping neurotransmitter
altering substances into the brain," music would be very boring.
What about the role of drugs in science?
http://www.hallucinogens.com/lsd/francis-crick.html
Ally Kendall|12.6.07 @ 11:49AM|#
I find it impossible to believe that a law can justly, validly, proscribe the intention to have a mental state. That's vastly more invasive than merely gagging, torturing and killing someone. Even if you can proscribe the posession of the toad, to impose a sanction on the basis of an intention to exercise control over one's own mind is insanity beyond the most viciously sadistic demonic delusion.
daretoeatapeach|12.6.07 @ 3:06PM|#
Ha! I suppose if God were working a life-sentence it explains why (s)he has not been returning my phone calls about this global warming thing.
you know who|12.6.07 @ 3:18PM|#
I highly recommend the smoking of Sonoran toad venom for
aspiring seekers of indigenous/pagan spiritual practices. Just pur
the toad on its back on a mirror, and the poison wil evaporate when
it drips off, leaving bufotenine and more importantly 5-MeO-DMT.
Melt venom solids into cannabis and inhale. This is a good way to
know what it feels like to be a toad living in the desert in
Mexico.
"I mean, marijuana grows everywhere, it serves a thousand different
functions, all of them positive, to make marijuana against the law
is like saying God made a mistake, you know what I mean? It's like
God, on the seventh day, looked down on his creation and said,
"There it is. My creation. Perfect and holy in all ways. Now, I can
rest... Oh my me. I left fucking pot everywhere. I should never
have smoked that joint on the third day. Shit. If I leave pot
everywhere, that's gonna give people the impression they're
supposed to use it. Shit. Now I have to create Republicans."
- Bill Hicks
|12.6.07 @ 3:53PM|#
""Smoke a college diploma, and that will *really* get you out
there."""
You get nothing with your college degree. Dummy up.
|12.6.07 @ 5:02PM|#
I'd say that discovering the world around you and using it
is a pretty damn fine hobby.
A position that is completely consistent with the use and enjoyment
of naturally occurring psychotropic substances.
Jay|12.6.07 @ 8:35PM|#
Shannon,
Regarding your sweeping statement that altering brain chemistry has
provided no benefit to humanity whatsoever, all I can say is stop
drinking the kool aid. Watson, one of the discoverers of DNAs
structure, has stated that he was on LSD when he had his epiphany.
I find that quite believable, though you may not. Furthermore, many
successful scientists have made use of amphetamines, cocaine, or
other stimulants in their lives and work. The fact of the matter is
that our brain is a machine, and some things can make that machine
work better for certain tasks (such as visualizing the incredible
structure of a complex, poorly understood molecule).
You should open your mind a bit. Hallucinogens really can have a
"mind expanding" effect, and stimulants are well documented at
improving performance.
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