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The Sharif Don't Like It: The Decline and Fall of Middle Eastern Civilization
Iranian state television takes on the scourge of Western heavy metal music, which is driving the country's youth towards Satanism and, apparently, inspiring them to get short, spiky, Eurodisco haircuts. Using jumpy, MTV-style editing, the program host blames "Jewish and American capitalists" for the spread of 2Pac and Kiss. But little do the rebellious kiddies know, the announcer grimly intones, that they are "unknowingly making themselves look like homosexuals."
Pay particular attention to the Paul Stanley (Jewish, naturally) guitar-smashing montage at the end, and the repeated clips of Gene Simmons (born Chaim Witz in Haifa, Israel, don't you know) wagging his tongue:
|8.23.07 @ 5:17PM|#
Hopefully the kids in Iran will do the same thing with music that we did in the 70's: tell their parents and the government to Fuck Off.
|8.23.07 @ 5:22PM|#
I figured from the headline this would be a post about the goings-on in Pakistan.
|8.23.07 @ 5:23PM|#
Hopefully the kids in Iran will do the same thing with music
that we did in the 70's: tell their parents and the government to
Fuck Off.
And when they have kids of their own, they can conveniently forget
whatever lessons they themselves learned, as they decide that
"everything is different now" and "it's for the children."
Larry Lurex|8.23.07 @ 5:23PM|#
Ironically Gene Simmons has had at least 72 virgins and he didn't even have to martyr himself.
Bee|8.23.07 @ 5:25PM|#
When I read about this yesterday, I wondered what the deal was
with the "Western hair" young men were sporting. Now I understand.
"Product" is the work of Satan. Check.
Doesn't heavy metal involve really big hair, anyway?
Is heavy metal enjoying a resurgence in Iran? I wonder how the
authorities would feel about gangsta rap.
|8.23.07 @ 5:33PM|#
"And these children that you spit on as they try to change their
worlds are immune to your consultations, they're quite aware of
what they're going through."
You go you crazy Capitalistically Jewish Yankee influenced crazy
Iranian rock kidz.
Note the 'z' in kidz, that's rebellion that is.
|8.23.07 @ 5:37PM|#
I figured from the headline this would be a post about the
goings-on in Pakistan.
Pakistan is not Middle Eastern anymore than India is. Its South
Asian.
Muslim != Middle East.
|8.23.07 @ 5:43PM|#
DannyK,
But when they have more dwarf Kiss tribute bands than we
do, we'll have lost ... umm ... something else entirely.
|8.23.07 @ 5:52PM|#
You gotta lose your mind in Tehran, Rock City
Twelve o'clock, I'm in Iraq.
There's a Hummer ahead, lights starin' at my eyes.
Oh Allah, no time to turn,
I got to laugh 'cause I know I'm gonna die.
Why?
Get up!
Everybody's gonna move their feet.
Get down!
Everybody's gonna leave their seat.
|8.23.07 @ 5:59PM|#
Off topic: On Saturday nights MTV shows Metal Mania, which
features 80s hairshit, while VH1 Classic shows Headbangers Ball,
featuring bloodfaced growlers strobelit while thrashing out speed
and death metal.
It gets me thinking: I so wish I could take the audience from a
Warrant concert, convinced that they are metal-heads, and transport
them to Dimmu Borgir show, just to see their heads explode.
Underzog|8.23.07 @ 6:24PM|#
Arabs
surf Israeli porn site
"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!" (and don't forget the
"Underdog" movie that is coming out)
|8.23.07 @ 6:39PM|#
Hopefully the kids in Iran will do the same thing with music that we did in the 70's: tell their parents and the government to Fuck Off.
And then they eventually procreate, drop out of school, and demand
that the government pay for their slacker existance.
|8.23.07 @ 6:54PM|#
Hair styles really do freak out the establishment. It's a sign
of spreading liberalism; they're right about that. Show me a
country where the hair styles are all the same, and I'll show you
an oppressed society.
I heard that back during the Cultural Revolution in China, when you
went into a barber shop, they had two pictures on the wall, and
you'd point to the one with the hairstyle you wanted.
You could get Moe or Pete Rose.
|8.23.07 @ 7:04PM|#
You've gotta be shitting me. That looked like a bunch of emo
kids.
Jeff P:
Meshuggah would also do the job nicely.
edna|8.23.07 @ 7:13PM|#
rockin' al aqsa, rockin' al aqsa.
mossad porn, i dunno, that's a bit much for me.
|8.23.07 @ 7:15PM|#
Ken Shultz : Show me a country where the hair styles are all the
same, and I'll show you an oppressed society.
Lhasa?
M|8.23.07 @ 7:20PM|#
Muslim != Middle East.
Cesar, all my symbolic logicians are on vacation, and google wasn't
telling. Would you please explicate that != trope, used here with
some frequency? Any related ones too, please - I wanna be cool
too.
|8.23.07 @ 7:44PM|#
Those hairstyles (or tattos, body piercings, etc) aren't a
result of a liberal disestablishmentarian society. Adopting the
conformant styles of a group as social signaling mechanisms isn't
individualism, it's collectivism.
A free society is a set of varied individuals, not groups of
identical clones. You never bothered listening to your mother, so
I'll repeat what she said: "dressing and behaving exactly like all
your friends is not 'doing your own thing'".
|8.23.07 @ 7:55PM|#
M:
In C, C++, C#, Java and a bunch of other programming languages, !=
is the comparison operator meaning 'Not Equal' to.
It is used in a conditional statement such as
if (a != b) {
kill_the_beast();
} else {
free_the_beast();
}
In the above statement, the function kill_the_beast would only be
executed is the statement a != b were true, meaning if a was not
equal to b.
If someone says 'A != B' it's a shorthand way of saying A and B are
not the same thing.
Brian Sorgatz|8.23.07 @ 8:15PM|#
"They're unknowingly making themselves look like
homosexuals."
Who knew that the Iranian TV news media are controlled by the guys
in my junior high school gym class?
The truth is, they're knowingly making themselves look
like people who hate theocratic conformity.
Goldthwait|8.23.07 @ 8:24PM|#
"Hopefully the kids in Iran will do the same thing with music
that we did in the 70's: tell their parents and the government to
Fuck Off."
Unfortunately in Iran, they can hang you from a crane if you follow
that particular course of action. Of course, no less is to be
expected from a country whose laws dictate a woman who is raped be
charged with rape herself, to name just one example of the twisted
legal logic employed in that wonderful Islamic Republic.
Goldthwait|8.23.07 @ 8:28PM|#
"Those hairstyles (or tattos, body piercings, etc) aren't a
result of a liberal disestablishmentarian society. Adopting the
conformant styles of a group as social signaling mechanisms isn't
individualism, it's collectivism"
When one considers that it is probably illegal to dress in such a
fashion and that 99.9% of the population dresses differently, I
think you are wrong in this case.
Have you been reading academic sociology journals lately?
Metalphobe|8.23.07 @ 8:28PM|#
Well, wait - there's something to that "homosexuals"
thing.
In retrospect watching old footage it's clear as day that Rob
Halford was as queer as a 2 dollar bill, but try telling a teenage
Priest fan that back in the day.
Metal = Gay.
WarlockBloodfire|8.23.07 @ 8:38PM|#
Strange, how Heavy Metal is always associated with Satanism in the media when there are tons of artists from other genres who are much more genuinely Satanic. Iran needs to be introduced to The Quintessentials, RazorDog, HellOfAllHells, and perhaps more stuff from Black House Tribute Records, for starters.
|8.23.07 @ 8:40PM|#
Warlock: are those bands even more Satanic than Entombed? Pretty much every Entombed song is about Satan, except for that one that makes fun of bodybuilders.
|8.23.07 @ 8:50PM|#
Brandybuck,
Even if it isn't individualistic, it's still libertarian. Joining a
group by choice instead of by government order is the essence of
the right to assembly. Come to think of it, even when it's a
stretch to call an outfit a form of speech, it still signals group
affiliation. Maybe that's enough to give any clothing 1st
ammendment protection under the assembly clause.
WarlockBloodfire|8.23.07 @ 9:02PM|#
Warty,
Those bands are definitely more Satanic in the genuine definition
of the term. Read Anton LaVey's definition of Satanic music in
Michael Moynihan's book 'Lords of Chaos' and you'll see what I
mean.
Also, Black House Tribute Records is a label for Satanists run by
Satanists. See the Links section of www.ChurchOfSatan.com and
you'll recognize a few bands.
|8.23.07 @ 9:04PM|#
If find the use of programming language a bit ostentatious,
mainly because I didn't know any of it before now...
Taktix® ! =programmer
Bill Quick|8.23.07 @ 10:09PM|#
Rob Halford was as queer as a 2 dollar bill
What's queer about a two dollar bill? (Aside from it being US paper
money, of course, of course).
docweasel|8.23.07 @ 10:21PM|#
Uh, Larry Lurex, I seriously doubt any of Kiss' groupies were
virgins :p
None older than 12, anyway.
docweasel|8.23.07 @ 10:24PM|#
BTW, so fucking what if Halford is gay. Freddie Mercury was gay
also, and I was a huge Queen fan as a kid, and some of my moron
buddies would say "But he's gay", and I would vainly try to tell
them, "so fucking what, listen to the music, they kick ass, its
proto-metal".
Apparently the morons only grew up, they didn't smarten up. Psst,
Elton is gay too! And Liberace!
|8.23.07 @ 10:31PM|#
The Sharif Don't Like It
I don't know if it's true for Iran as it is for the Arab countries
(probably is)-But since "Sharif" is an Arabic word anyway, I'll
just point out that the chief exporter of pornography into the Arab
world is Sweden. And while the Islamic clerics complain bitterly,
of course there were no 9/11 type attacks on Stockholm. It took our
government's interventionist aggression, especially the taxpayer
funding of the Israeli government's occupation of Palestinian land
to motivate 9/11.
|8.23.07 @ 10:34PM|#
Gee, I wasted my life being a geek before it was cool and a
nerd, which never has been cool, when I could have been out having
fun going to heavy metal concerts with their loud, harsh music,
crazy costumes and mosh pits where I could have been turned into a
homosexual or gotten it on with some hot American foxes with their
big enormous American breasts.
Judging by this video, I think these Iranian kids have heavy metal,
a musical reference, mixed up with the rapper lifestyle, where you
only WEAR or CARRY heavy metal. I wonder how you say bling in
Persian.
|8.23.07 @ 10:50PM|#
This is all well and good but I'd prefer that they were making bombs in their basements to attack the regime. Because if the Iranian people don't get rid of the mullahs we are going to be forced to stop them and nobody wants that to happen but we cannot allow these fanatics controlling nuclear weapons or to contiunue waging covert war against America.
|8.23.07 @ 11:10PM|#
Those poor Iranian kids. That music sucks! Let's send em some
links for tunes that we here in the West can be proud of. Perhaps
they will offset some of the embarrassment that our government
brings upon us. Let's send em some fine old school puck tunes such
as Siouxsie and the Banshees' "Hong Kong Garden"!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF0OjrFIVWY&mode=related&search=
And some fine New Wave songs like The B-52's - "Private
Idaho"!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFyBH-z6c1w
And didya know that John Lennon pronounced the B52s debut album his
favorite album of all time?!!
Here, from that album, is "Rock lobster"!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqKRGW6_rw&mode=related&search=
|8.23.07 @ 11:22PM|#
Has anyone commented on the fact that this video was translated
by the always trustworthy MEMRI.TV ?
http://www.infocusnews.net/content/view/15069/135/
|8.23.07 @ 11:49PM|#
Yeah that dang MEMRI, playing the dirty trick of actually translating what these islamic countries say when they don't think anyone in the west is listening in. Dirty Rats!
SxCx|8.24.07 @ 12:00AM|#
"...encouraging the listeners to violence, fear, lack of
discipline, death, pain, recklessness, and paranoia."
Sounds familiar...
docweasel|8.24.07 @ 12:06AM|#
Rick Barton: And didya know that John Lennon pronounced the
B52s debut album his favorite album of all time?!!
Sometimes Lennon said some dumb-ass shit.
|8.24.07 @ 12:09AM|#
Steve39:
... but we cannot allow these fanatics controlling nuclear
weapons
What nonsense! That says that the costs of militarily stopping them
now from having nuclear weapons (it's not clear at all that they're
actually trying to develop them) are less than managing the
situation if they even ever acquire a few of them, and that's what
were looking at for the foreseeable future, a few. The evidence
doesn't support that this preemptive aggression is wise for America
in the case of Iran. And the prospect of them actually having
workable nukes is 5-7 years way anyway, in the fastest case, and
it's something we can watch and react to. Also, note that the
fanatics in Pakistan have nukes and our government gives them our
money!
From, The American Conservative see:
"Iran: "Past the Paranoia "
"At once theocratic, secular, hostile, and modern, Iran is not
America's natural enemy."
http://www.amconmag.com/2007/2007_06_04/cover.html
and...
"Size Matters"
"The push for military strikes against Iran rests on inflated
assessments of a minor threat."
http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_10_23/cover.html
Steve39:
...or to contiunue waging covert war against
America.
What covert war? You sound like you've been watching too much FOX
news foreign policy disinformation programming.
|8.24.07 @ 12:22AM|#
For Rick Barton:
Yeah, yeah....Sweden hasn't been attacked because it "took our
government's interventionist aggression, especially the taxpayer
funding of the Israeli government's occupation of Palestinian land
to motivate 9/11."
Yeah yeah, AS IF the Iranians, Al Qaeda or anyone else cares that
American "taxpayers" funded the occupation of Palestine land. I
detect a faint echo of "little Eichmanns" in that witless
asssertion...
Yeah, yeah, AS IF it wasn't the Brits and the UNITED NATIONS that
set up the State of Israel. You know, Balfour Declaration,
Holocaust and all that? Oh...you DON'T know...why am I not
surprised?
Yeah, yeah, AS IF the UN's setting up of the State of Israel was
"illegal" and the US should never have supported a democracy amidst
the Arab kakistocracies who have made war against it since its
founding..
Yeah, yeah, AS IF Israel hasn't already given up the Gaza Strip,
West Bank, and the territories seized from Lebanon.
Yeah, yeah....it's Israel's fault that Syria attacked it and lost
the Golan Heights as a result. Why, it's Israel's responsibility to
give back that land to the aggresssor LOSERS of the war!
BZZZZTTTTT!!!!!
Other than that....you've got great grasp of history there,
pal!
Snort!
p.s. has anyone ever told you you're a vicious little
crypto-anti-semite?
|8.24.07 @ 12:28AM|#
If our soldiers would have invaded Tehran, we would have been
greeted as saviors...if our soldiers had angular haircuts. We need
to step up our recruiting in Williamsburg (Brooklyn).
Somebody above mentioned dwarves, and it makes me wonder, how would
The Dwarves go over in Tehran? Surely that stuffs the spawn of
Satan.
|8.24.07 @ 12:30AM|#
Rick Barton, things are not so rosy in Sweden or Denmark
right now either.
Denmark has unrest problems due to local situations, but not the
attacks like those that have occurred in countries (UK and Spain)
that were so foolish as to participate in our government's shameful
attack on Iraq. But the fact remains that the chief exporter of
pornography into the Arab world is Sweden and there have been no
attacks there despite the bitter complaints of the Islamic clerics.
All of this adds evidence to the contention that they don't
hate us for who we are, they hate us for the aggression of our
government. Unlike Gore's, this is an inconvenient truth
that's actually the truth!
|8.24.07 @ 12:36AM|#
docweasel:
Sometimes Lennon said some dumb-ass shit.
Sure, but the man knew music. Right?
|8.24.07 @ 12:51AM|#
If a band, like the Clash, were to happen to put out something
like 'Rock the Casbah' today, and some mullah somewhere took
exception to it, how long (measured in seconds) would it be before
one of Brown's minions were on TV kissing robed posterior? Is it
true that the foreign ministers of all EU countries are required to
have in their possession at all times the text of a general-purpose
apologia?
Oh, and Mr Barton - I honestly don't care that 'they' hate us, or
what they hate us for. That simply doesn't matter. The US needs to
do what's in the national interest of the US, and the more
consistent and forceful we are in enunciating and promoting those
interests the more broadly they will be accepted, if grudgingly.
I'm willing to accept that it's in this country's interest to
support and preserve the only functioning (if imperfect) democracy
anywhere in the Mideast, a country generally less guilty of
cultural imperialism and needless brutality than any of its
neighbors.
|8.24.07 @ 12:54AM|#
less guilty of cultural imperialism and needless brutality
than any of its neighbors.
Excepting perhaps hapless Lebanon and hedging Jordan, neither of
which are guilt-free when it comes to handling their own
Palestinian issues.
|8.24.07 @ 1:28AM|#
fulldroolcup:
AS IF the Iranians, Al Qaeda or anyone else cares that American
"taxpayers" funded the occupation of Palestine land. I detect a
faint echo of "little Eichmanns" in that witless
asssertion...
Note that the findings of the 9/11 commission reveal:
"Khalid Shaike Mohammed, the man who conceived and
directed the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, was motivated by his
strong disagreement with American support for the Israeli
occupation, said the final report of the Sept. 11
commission."
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/nation/9222612.htm
And, in his 9/11 Fatwa Bin Laden told us the three reasons for the
9/11 attack:
1. Us troops deployed to close to Mecca
2. The harm done to Iraqi civilians by the blockade if Iraq.
3. American government support for the Israeli government's
occupation of Palestinian land.
http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm
p.s. has anyone ever told you you're a vicious little
crypto-anti-semite?
Sure, when you don't have any good arguments, just make unfounded
accusations of racism. You appear to be out of your depth on this
blog, both intellectually and ethically.
M. Simon|8.24.07 @ 1:54AM|#
There never were any Palestinians. Or Palestinian lands
Jordan and Egypt were the owners of the land by force of arms; they
took it against the wishes of the UN in '48 when they attempted to
drive the Jews into the sea - which was not a covert but an open
policy - you can look it up. Israel took it from them because of
acts of war by Egypt and Jordan in '67. Israel begged Jordan to
stay out of it in '67 - Nasser was clever and got the Jordanians to
come in.
Israel tried to give the land back to Jordan and Egypt in exchange
for peace treaties.
When Egypt did make peace they got the Sinai back. However, they
had no interest in Gaza and the Egyptians living there.
Similarly Jordan does not want the Jordanians on the West Bank
back.
M. Simon|8.24.07 @ 1:55AM|#
Arafat formed the Palestine Liberation Organization well before
'67. So what exactly was he trying to liberate? Gaza from Egypt?
Nope. The West Bank from Jordan? Nope. I'll let you figure the rest
out.
In fact the Palis get kicked out of every where they set up shop.
Is this all the Israelis fault? If so then why did Lebanon have a
dust up with them recently? Why did Kuwait kick them out in
'91?
The so called Palestinians are treated worse by their brothers than
they are by the Israelis. As acknowledged by the Palis themselves.
Of course this may have something to do with the Palis attitude
towards violence to attain their goals.
"Palestine" is not a Nation. It is a bunch of gangsters that sucks
the wealth from the people who live under their control. Honor
killings - caused by the Israelis? Pali homosexuals are safer in
Israel that they are under their own government. They are subject
to public hangings in the Pali territories. The gangs terrorize
their own subjects. Step out of line the man comes and you get a
bullet to the head. Due process.
The Pali State as it exists is a despotism. Just what the world
needs. Another despotic state. How Libertarian.
However, as you here all know the cure for all that is a Pali
State. I love Libertarians. Especially those who support despotism.
How egalitarian. How liberal. Charming to the end.
M. Simon|8.24.07 @ 1:55AM|#
The world cannot survive half despotic and half free. Quite a
few understood this in '76. Fortunately Libs are not inheritors of
that tradition.
I can see not supporting Israel. Does that mean that you have to
support its enemies?
Man I am so glad I left the Party in '01. I would be ashamed to be
in the company of the left over Libs.
Did I forget to mention the current crack down on music and dancing
in Hamastan. Free speech for me but not for thee?
OK!!!!!!!! Or how about government imposed dress
and hair styles?
Did you know that conditions in Hammastan are so bad that many of
its resident pine for the days of the occupation when Israel
imposed a modicum of law and order on Gaza?
Such a lovely people. Let us give them a State.
Did I mention that in WW2 the Palis allied with the Germans. Why?
The Germans were killing Jews and the Palis wanted to help. The
Grand Mufti helped raise two divisions of Jew killers. Guess what.
Arafat called the Mufti "Uncle".
And Abbas? Well he wrote a book saying the Jewish genocide in WW2
was fiction. However, had it actually happened he was in favor of
it.
Way cool, eh?
M. Simon|8.24.07 @ 2:00AM|#
It is wonderful to see the true Libertarians stand up for
despotism.
Heaven knows consent of the governed has outlived its
usefulness.
bour3|8.24.07 @ 2:03AM|#
Metalphobe,
$2.00
bills are perfectly straight. $3.00 bills on the other hand,
not so much.
|8.24.07 @ 2:17AM|#
Nasty USA, helping Israel fight off the Arab attempts to finish
the job Hitler started. The only reason Gaza, the West Bank, and
Southern Lebanon were occupied by the Israelis was because the
Arabs attacked them from those territories. Israel offered to give
back all the land captured in 1967 except Jerusalem a couple of
months after the war. The Arab respose was the three no's of
Khartoum: No negotiations, no recognition, no peace. Israel
occupation was due to Arab intransigence. Bad Israelis, resisting
genocide. Bad America, helping them do so.
Nasty USA, saving the Balkan Muslims from having the Serbs do to
them what the Arabs want to do to the Israelis.
Nasty USA, protecting the region from Communist Soviet Imperialism.
Imagine the Soviet army turning Iran or Turkey into satellite
states like Poland fifty or sixty years ago. Bad America.
Nasty USA, helping the Afghans against Soviet Communist
Imperialism.
Boy, American transgressions against Muslims have been just
unforgivable.
And you can take "The American Conservative", roll it up very
tightly, and shove as hard as you can it where the sun don't shine.
That's all it's worth.
|8.24.07 @ 2:44AM|#
JEM:
The US needs to do what's in the national interest of the US,
and the more consistent and forceful we are in enunciating and
promoting those interests the more broadly they will be accepted,
if grudgingly.
But the evidence teaches us that our government's being
interventionist and "forceful" often works at cross-purposes to the
American people's interest, as it has in the Mideast.
I'm willing to accept that it's in this country's interest to
support and preserve the only functioning (if imperfect) democracy
anywhere in the Mideast,
Lebonan, and even Iran have democracies that "function". But that
shouldn't be the criteria for American government intervention. The
only valid pretext for intervention is national security. Also,
supporting the Israeli government's brutal, and now with the wall,
an even thieving more occupation, is not "supporting Israel". Note
that poll after poll finds that a majority of Israeli citizens
favors an end to the occupation.
|8.24.07 @ 3:00AM|#
M. Simon:
There never were any Palestinians.
That's ridiculous! There's even a separate Palestinian dialect of
Arabic:
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/flashcards/view/450724
Or Palestinian lands
What?? Ever hear of Mandatory Palestine??
|8.24.07 @ 3:10AM|#
JEM:
Excepting perhaps hapless Lebanon and hedging Jordan, neither
of which are guilt-free when it comes to handling their own
Palestinian issues.
And that's true about them, especially Jordan, not being guilt-free
when it comes to handling Palestinian refugees. But I was gonna
mention Dubai which btw, has aspects of a free market that both
Lebanon and Israel would do well to emulate.
|8.24.07 @ 3:22AM|#
M. Simon:
The Pali State as it exists is a despotism. Just what the world
needs. Another despotic state. How Libertarian.
Ending our tax support of the Israeli government's occupation of
Palestine is not the same as supporting the Palestinian state. And
doing the former most certainly is libertarian.
|8.24.07 @ 3:56AM|#
Michael Lonie:
Nasty USA, helping Israel fight off the Arab attempts to finish
the job Hitler started. The only reason Gaza, the West Bank, and
Southern Lebanon were occupied by the Israelis was because the
Arabs attacked them from those territories. Israel offered to give
back all the land captured in 1967 except Jerusalem a couple of
months after the war.
Your first ugly sentence indicates that you don't deserve for
someone to take the time to give you a history lesson that you
obviously are in need of, so I'm sure as Hell not going to take the
time. But because I have a general desire to stamp out the kind of
ignorance that you've displayed, I will recommend the book: "Image
and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict" by Norman
Finkelstein. I think that it's the best volume on the conflict
extant:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1859843395/reasonmagazineA/
|8.24.07 @ 7:33AM|#
There was an excellent article here:
http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=082102B
regarding the way Elvis and subsequently the whole rock concert
culture/business removed the wind from the sails of demagoguery by
appropriating the style an mocking it by the nature of the
substance.
|8.24.07 @ 8:51AM|#
Rick Barton | August 24, 2007, 12:30am | #
Denmark has unrest problems due to local situations, but not the
attacks like those that have occurred in countries (UK and Spain)
that were so foolish as to participate in our government's shameful
attack on Iraq.
Apparently, you weren't aware that Denmark had troops in Iraq. Now
what was that about attacks, UK, Spain and participation again?
Eric Dondero|8.24.07 @ 8:52AM|#
And what was that the Ron Paulists, Leftwing Libertarians and
Paleos have been saying?
Oh yeah, "Muslim leaders hate us for our foreign policy, not our
culture."
Tym|8.24.07 @ 9:49AM|#
Freddie Mercury was gay also, and I was a huge Queen fan as
a kid
And by the way, Freddie Mercury was Iranian.
Tym|8.24.07 @ 9:51AM|#
Freddie Mercury was gay also, and I was a huge Queen fan as
a kid
And by the way, Freddie Mercury was Iranian.
|8.24.07 @ 10:11AM|#
"Sure, but the man knew music. Right?"
Really? He was infallible? Don't forget the awful Yoko Ono.
|8.24.07 @ 10:16AM|#
Apparently you weren't aware that Denmark's problems predate the
war in Iraq.
But then, the problem with Islam predates the the 20th century--by
about 1400 years in fact--having its roots in Islam's insistence
that infidels must be Kept In Their Place.
dhex|8.24.07 @ 10:36AM|#
DONNNNNDEEERRRRRROOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH!
eric what's your favorite metal act?
ps nyc'ers today is the day is playing in greenpoint on september
14th at club europa. it's going to be amazing.
Fluffy|8.24.07 @ 10:49AM|#
Hey Simon, if there's no such thing as Palestine or
Palestinians, then Israel is even more in the wrong.
If there's no such thing as Palestine or Palestinians, then Israel
is arbitrarily denying citizenship rights to the inhabitants of an
area it has administered for 40 years.
Jewish settlers living in the occupied territories retain the right
to vote. That means that Israel is arbitrarily withholding the
right to vote from the neighbors of those settlers - and since you
deny that those neighbors have a nationality, there is no basis for
such denial.
It's really very simple. Israel has only three choices consistent
with basic justice: they can give the inhabitants of the occupied
territories their own state, they can return the occupied
territories to Egypt and Jordan, or they can fully annex the
territories and declare the inhabitants of those territories
citizens. The fact that Israel finds the last option
demographically undesirable means nothing to me, so there's no need
to cue the violin music.
|8.24.07 @ 11:59AM|#
pst314 | August 24, 2007, 10:16am | #
Apparently you weren't aware that Denmark's problems predate the
war in Iraq.
But then, the problem with Islam predates the the 20th century--by
about 1400 years in fact--having its roots in Islam's insistence
that infidels must be Kept In Their Place.
I was aware. Apparently, you don't read too well.
The poster I was responding to thought that involvement in Iraq was
the reason UK and Spain were attacked and claimed Denmark's lack of
involvement meant they were spared. My point: Denmark had troops in
Iraq.
|8.24.07 @ 12:27PM|#
But little do the rebellious kiddies know, the announcer grimly intones, that they are "unknowingly making themselves look like homosexuals." Not that there is anything wrong with that.
M. Simon|8.24.07 @ 12:47PM|#
Fluffy,
There have been Jews in Israel for over 3,000 years. Look up the
history of Hebron, at least until the Mufti killed a lot of Jews
and drove the rest out.
Despite the Roman expulsion there has been a Jewish Nation for just
as long.
In fact it is rather unique in being a nation without a territory
for around 1800 years.
The Palestinians are actually mostly "Syrians" who came to the
territory called Palestine by the Turks. Why did they come? Jewish
economic development. You can look it up.
But I'm with you. If the Palis want self government (that is not
evident) then all they have to do is end their war with Israel. You
know like firing rockets every day from Gaza which is now a wholly
owned subsidiary of Hamas. You know if they can't control their own
territory they are not a nation.
It is the Palestinians who are ruining it for the
Palestinians.
And how about the outstanding Palestinian human rights record and
their support for Liberty as we understand it? Hanging homos in the
town square? Honor killings? Their President is a Holocaust denier.
Wonderful Libertarian values. Nice to see your staunch
support.
And why is Palestine supposed to be Judden Rein? Another
Libertarian value?
The Palis have elected Hamas whose goal (announced in Arabic so as
to avoid frightening the UN etc.) is the destruction of not just
Israel but the Jews. It is in their Charter, which in turn has
anti-Jewish stuff from the Koran.
Wen Jews had no territory they thought their persecution would end
when they had a territory. Evidently it has nothing to do with
whether they have a nation or not. Something else is at play.
The Palestinians were on the side of the Austrian Corporal in WW2.
Killing Jews was their motive. Evidently culture does not change
fast in the Arab world.
|8.24.07 @ 1:37PM|#
Whitney Andrew:
The poster I was responding to thought that involvement in Iraq
was the reason UK and Spain were attacked and claimed Denmark's
lack of involvement meant they were spared. My point: Denmark had
troops in Iraq.
The UK and Spain were clearly targets of terror attack cuz of their
involvement in Iraq cuz that's the reason that the perpetrators of
those attacks gave.
Also, lets keep troop levels in perspective. The Danish government
had all of 460 troops in Iraq.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_orbat_coalition.htm
|8.24.07 @ 1:39PM|#
It takes a special kind of stupid to brag about how determined you are not to know things, fulldroolcup.
|8.24.07 @ 2:06PM|#
Lennon--Imagine, if I remember right is his. Now, there's a song
that everyone from Libertarian to Social Conservative to Paleocon
can agree on--its stupid.
Lurex, Brandybuck, M. Simon--thanks for enbrightenment of the
world.
|8.24.07 @ 2:27PM|#
"I wanna be a non-conformist, like everybody else"
What these kids are doing is meaningless.
What the Iranian establishment is doing with their interpretation
of it, is what the problem is.
They're a dictatorial society. Cutting your hair weird is not some
sort of revolution that's going to change the establishment there.
Picking up arms and forcing the government out is.
M|8.24.07 @ 3:05PM|#
Lennon--Imagine, if I remember right is his. Now, there's a song that everyone from Libertarian to Social Conservative to Paleocon can agree on--its stupid.
Tennwriter - Introducing
Exhibit A for the Prosecution.
|8.24.07 @ 3:08PM|#
The UK and Spain were clearly targets of terror attack cuz
of their involvement in Iraq cuz that's the reason that the
perpetrators of those attacks gave.
Funny how pulling all of it's troops out of Iraq, doesn't spare
Spain from continued plots of terrorism by Islamists.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/12/news/spain.php
It kind of puts the lie to the terrorists' and leftists' claims
that our presence in Iraq leads to terrorism. The same way the
following events put the lie to the same claim about the Iraq
invasion (2003).
9/11/01 - terrorist attacks against NYC & DC
6/25/96 - Khobar Towers attack
10/12/00 - USS Stark struck by terrorists
8/7/98 - US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya bombed by
terrorists
etc., etc.
And why were Australian tourists targeted in Oct. of 2002 in Bali?
Certainly not because of Iraq.
|8.24.07 @ 3:56PM|#
Whitney Andrew,
It's not just leftists who say that that our government's presence
in Iraq leads to terrorism. (I'm a libertarian Republican, btw).
Folks in our military have observed that our presence in Iraq is a
huge recruiting tool for AQ.
The link that you provided doesn't negate the evidence that foreign
troop presence in Iraq leads to terrorism against the sponsoring
government's country. And did you bother to read the whole article?
Note that it says:
"Two of the men arrested Tuesday are brothers of a former
Spanish detainee at Guantánamo."
And surely you aren't trying to deny that the 9/11 terrorist
attacks against NYC & DC were motivated by our government's
mideast intervention. Please read my comment at August 24, 2007,
1:28am
docweasel|8.24.07 @ 5:36PM|#
Rick Barton | August 24, 2007, 12:36am | #
docweasel:
Sometimes Lennon said some dumb-ass shit.
RickBarton:
Sure, but the man knew music. Right?
Everything public pronouncement Lennon made between telling the
press his fav American band was Nilsson and telling the paramedics
"I'm John Lennon" was shite.
Also, Lennon never wrote an original nor particularly good song
after "Day in the Life". And I include that dirty hippie socialist
dirge "Imagine".
Imagine there's no Yoko
It's easy if you try
If only Chapman's pistol
Had been pointed 2 feet to one side
|8.26.07 @ 5:54AM|#
docweasel,
"Imagine" seems more confused than it does socialist. It also
says...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for...
...correctly linking government and war.
And don't forget the lyrics to "Revolution":
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow.
Also, hippies aren't dirty, socialists are.
|8.26.07 @ 6:19AM|#
...Just to be clear, I consider...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for...
...to be laudable lyrics, not evidence of the confusion that is in
the tune.
Underzog|8.26.07 @ 1:20PM|#
Anti-semitic, Nazi type Barton singing John Lennon's Communist
lyrics. Karl Marx and Stalin hated the Jews along with Hitler so
it's most fitting.
"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"
|8.26.07 @ 2:13PM|#
Underzog,
You must really be dumb as a stump cuz you never learn. Criticism
of the Israeli government is not anti-Semitism.
How many times are you going to embarrass yourself on these
threads? Just in case anyone new to these threads is taking your
nonsense seriously, they may google up my comments and see that I,
like most libertarians, am explicitly anti-racist.
docweasel|8.26.07 @ 2:42PM|#
Barton:
What it shows is that Lennon was a cowardly dilettante, by his own
admission, who didn't understand the issues and was afraid to take
a stand either way.
And your exclusionary formulation that "countries=war" sure doesn't
explain how entities like the IRA and other insurgent armies killed
millions with no government backing and no government or country to
fight for.
The fact is, its a GOOD thing that there are things for which to
live and die, and its a noble thing to do so. There are evil, bad
men in the world who would enslave others and seize our land,
liberty and rights. There will probably always be such men. It has
nothing to do with religion or countries. Much of the fighting in
the Mid-East and elsewhere is tribal and even between families.
Countries, if anything, help stabilize such hostilities and tamp
them down.
I still think Lennon was an idiot, and it galls me to hear people
speak of him as the "smart Beatle". I think Lennon was thick and
ordinary in everything but having the sense to collaborate with
McCartney long enough to establish his legend. The hollowness of
his "talent" was pretty much exposed when he no longer had that
great musical mind with which to work.
|8.26.07 @ 5:48PM|#
What shows that Lennon was a cowardly dilettante? And he was
anything but cowardly when he was opposing the Viet Nam war even in
the face of government retribution while residing in this
country
The fact is, its a GOOD thing that there are things for which
to live and die...
The line is: "Nothing to kill or die for"
It has nothing to do with religion or countries
War has everything to do with governments.
Countries, if anything, help stabilize such hostilities and
tamp them down.
Governments are always instrumental to the big carnage.
I think Lennon was thick and ordinary in everything but having
the sense to collaborate with McCartney long enough to establish
his legend.
Does evidence exist that their collaboration was one sided. Iv'e
never read that, but I have read just the opposite.
I remember enjoying "John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band" back in the day.
Does your antipathy toward John get in the way of enjoying the
Beatles?
Funny-all this started with my mention of the B52s!
|8.26.07 @ 5:54PM|#
Ok, here's another great B52's tune. It's "LEGAL TENDER"!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWBb593zxrw
Underzog|8.26.07 @ 8:11PM|#
What did Normon Podhoretz say? "The interesting thing about
today's anti-Semites is that they always deny what they are"?
Even David Duke denies he's an anti-Semite.
And since you're so hot to bash the Jews, I have some fun
things for you and the rest of the Libertarians.
Chew on this,
Proposed Amendment to ban Islam
A Proposed Constitutional Amendment
Background and justification to Amendment 28
Whereas Religion is defined as an institution dedicated to
improving social conscience and promoting individual and societal
spiritual growth in a way that is harmless to others not
participating in or practicing the same;
Whereas the United States of America was founded on the ideals of
individual rights, including the individual right to practice one's
religion of choice, or no religion, and that there would be no
compulsion of religion, nor state sanctioned religion, nor a
"religious test" for participation in the body politic;
Whereas Islam includes a complete political and social structure,
encompassed by its religious law, Sharia, that supersedes any civil
law and that Islam mandates that no secular or democratic
institutions are to be superior to Islamic law;
Whereas Islam preaches that it and it alone is the true religion
and that Islam will dominate the world and supplant all other
religions and democratic institutions;
Whereas Saudi Arabia, the spiritual home of Islam does not permit
the practice of any other religion on its soil and even "moderate"
Muslims states such as Turkey and Malaysia actively suppress other
religions;
Whereas Islam includes as its basic tenet the spread of the faith
by any and all means necessary, including violent conquest of
non-believers, and demands of its followers that they implement
violent jihad (holy war) against those un-willing to convert or
submit to Islam, including by deception and subversion of existing
institutions;
Whereas on 9/11/2001 19 Muslim hijackers acting in the name of
Islam killed 3,000 Americans, and numerous other acts of terrorism
have been directed at the American people around the world;
Whereas representatives of Islam around the world including Osama
Bin Laden (architect of 9/11), the government of Iran including
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, HAMAS, Hezbollah, and other Islamic groups
have declared jihad (war) on America, and regularly declare that
America should cease to exist;
Whereas there is no organized Islamic opposition to violent
proponents of Islam;
Therefore: Islam is not a religion, but a political ideology more
akin to Fascism and totally in opposition to the ideals of freedom
as described in the United States Constitution, especially the Bill
of Rights.
Be it resolved that the following Amendment to the Constitution be
adopted:
Article I
The social/political/ideological system known around the world as
Islam is not recognized in the United States as a religion.
The practice of Islam is therefore not protected under the 1st
Amendment as to freedom of religion and speech.
Article II
As representatives of Islam around the world have declared war, and
committed acts of war, against the United States and its democratic
allies around the world, Islam is hereby declared an enemy of the
United States and its practice within the United States is now
prohibited.
Article III
Immediately upon passage of this Amendment all Mosques, schools and
Muslim places of worship and religious training are to be closed,
converted to other uses, or destroyed. Proceeds from sales of such
properties may be distributed to congregations of said places but
full disclosure of all proceeds shall be made to an appropriate
agency as determined by Congress. No compensation is to be offered
by Federal or State agencies for losses on such properties however
Federal funding is to be available for the demolishing of said
structures if other disposition cannot be made.
The preaching of Islam in Mosques, Schools, and other venues is
prohibited. The subject of Islam may be taught in a post high
school academic environment provided that instruction include
discussion of Islam's history of violence, conquest, and its
ongoing war on democratic and other non-Islamic values.
The preaching or advocating of Islamic ideals of world domination,
destruction of America and democratic institutions, jihad against
Judaism, Christianity and other religions, and advocating the
implementation of Sharia law shall in all cases be punishable by
fines, imprisonment, deportation, and death as prescribed by
Congress. Violent expressions of these and other Muslim goals, or
the material support of those both in the United States and around
the world who seek to advance these Islamic goals shall be
punishable by death.
Muslims will be denied the opportunity to immigrate to the United
States.
Article IV
Nothing in this amendment shall be construed as authorizing the
discrimination against, of violence upon, nor repudiation of the
individual rights of those Americans professing to be Muslim. The
individual right of conscience is sacrosanct and the practice of
Islam within the privacy of home and self is strictly protected to
the extent that such individuals do not violate the prohibitions
described in Article III.
"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"
|8.27.07 @ 12:45AM|#
Underzog:
And since you're so hot to bash the Jews, I have some fun
things for you and the rest of the Libertarians.
So now you're not only continuing with unfounded accusations of
racism. You're adding to them your own real racism. No thanks,
Underzog, you mental midget.
Underzog|8.27.07 @ 6:21AM|#
Mental midget Hitler boy?
You know what Mary McCarthy said? She said,
"Anti-Semitism is the intellecutalism of stupid people."
"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"
|8.27.07 @ 7:05PM|#
Underzog,
Calling me ridiculous names and citing quotations can't exculpate
you from the shame of falsely accusing me of racism. Again, you're
way out of your depth on this blog, both intellectually and
ethically.
And with your disgraceful bigotry (anti-Islamic in your case),
you're right in line with fascists.
If anyone is new to this blog and tempted to take, in the least, my
mental midget adversary seriously. please google me up and you can
read where I've confronted anti-Semites on these threads-just as I
now confront Underzog's anti-Islamic racism.
Underzog|8.27.07 @ 7:53PM|#
Your obsession with the Jewish state -- even bringing it into a
discussion on the "Sicko" movie in an exchange between Michael
Moore and Wolf Blitzer damns you as an anti-Semite.
Moore and Blitzer were arguing about Moore's movie, "Sicko". They
weren't arguing about Israel, but maybe you were thinking of your
hero's, David Duke, clash with Wolf Blitzer earlier.
Also, your appeasement of our terrorist enemies further shows you
to be anti American, too. People point out that anti Americanism
and anti-Semitism are related mental depravaties.
You're proof of that. Anti Semites? Who
us?
"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"
Underzog|8.27.07 @ 8:16PM|#
This creep is what is referred to as The new
anti-Semitism, driven by Islam
"There's no need to fear; Underzog is here!"
|8.27.07 @ 10:19PM|#
Underzog,
In that comment I was talking about one of Michael Moore's other
movies as well and I said:
"Michael Moore is mostly right about the Iraq war but he tends to
leave out the very critical neocon push for the war because they
thought it would be good for the Israeli government. He is only
kinda right about what and is wrong and how wrong with American
health care. He is way, way wrong on his solution to fix
American health care."
Your sad lack of mental rigor or lack of ethics leads you to say
that this "tags me as an anti-Semite."
I despise David Duke cuz he's a racist like you, Underzog.
Oh right, libertarians "appease of our terrorist enemies". We want
to bring an end to a huge AQ recruiting tool.
Your obsession with the Jewish state...
I both know, and have read lotsa Jews who hate and oppose
occupation and other actions of the Israeli government. What
ridiculous and ugly name do you call these folks? "Self
haters"?
Your demonstrated lack of the ability to carry on rational
discourse is making me think that you might be a child.
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