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Preparing for That Once-in-Twelve-Millenia Tragedy
The Virginia Tech massacre has predictably inspired a new wave of hysteria and legislation surrounding school shootings. Here, for example, local police lecture a school in Columbia, Missouri on what to do should someone open fire in the class room.
"We're going to try to educate everybody, teachers and administrators to think outside the box just a little bit," said Robbins, a member of Boone County's Swat Team. "And that is if the violence is at your door and you have a window to get out of, then get out the window."
"If the violence is bypassing you because they don't know you're there because you're huddling and being quiet, then huddle and be quiet."
Officers say the training is also applicable in other public areas where a similar situation could take place.
Try to get away. And if you can't get away, hide! That's some real outside-the-box thinking.
These sorts of programs are useless, accomplishing little more than spreading fear, as well as the misperception that school shootings are anything but exceedingly rare.
A few weeks ago, I got to hear the University of Virginia's Dewey Cornell, generally considered the leading expert on school shootings, give a presentation at a crime summit on Capitol Hill. Cornell estimates that the average middle school, high school, or college can expect an on-campus homicide about once every 12,000 years. Of course, no one wants to hear statistics like these when a school shooting hits the headlines.
One other thing, I've found in researching SWAT teams that the possibility of school shootings are often cited when local police departments ask local governments for funding to form a SWAT team. This is disingenuous for a couple of reasons. One, because of the statistics cited above. And two, because when the rare school shooting does happen, it's generally over before a SWAT could have scrambled to the scene, anyway.
Of course, once the SWAT team is in place, it's then overwhelmingly used to serve drug warrants.
Tuff Guy in teh Internetz|7.26.07 @ 12:37PM|#
"Try to get away. And if you can't get away, hide! That's some
real outside-the-box thinking."
NO WAY. YOU GET INTO YOUR UFC KARATE STANCE AND DRAW YOUR 88 MAGNUM
AND BLAST THE FUCKERS. BOOM BOOM. CARRIED BY TWELVE. HUMPED BY SIX.
ARGH! BLARGH. GURGLEGURGLE.
|7.26.07 @ 12:37PM|#
I guess they need to stop having fire drills too, then. "Walk
out the door, don't panic" - that's some real out of the box
thinking there.
And when was the last time you heard of a school full of kids
catching on fire, anyway?
|7.26.07 @ 12:39PM|#
Bluff. Tell the shooter that you used to rip intestines out through noses during your Special Forces' days in Afghanistan, and you'd really prefer not to do it again.
I Say Old Man|7.26.07 @ 12:42PM|#
The Management wish to excuse Mr. Libertate from further
discussion. He is still traumatized about the kitten he received as
a post pubescent adult. The kitten ripped its own intestines out
and tried crawling down its own colon in a last ditch effort to
escape.
We apologise for this inconvenience and mind the gap.
Abdul|7.26.07 @ 12:43PM|#
Here's some advice for a school shooting victim: you're safe now for another 12,000 years!
robc|7.26.07 @ 12:47PM|#
joe,
Without looking anything up first, Im willing to be any amount up
to $100 that in the last year there were more schools evacuated due
to a real fire (not a false alarm) than schools that had school
shootings.
|7.26.07 @ 12:49PM|#
highnumber,
You'd better stop VM, or I'll institute Sarek Thursday at Urkobold. I'm not bluffing! All
Sarek, all of the time!
robc|7.26.07 @ 12:51PM|#
joe,
And when was the last time you heard of a school full of kids
catching on fire, anyway?
Monday. Okay, there were only 90 kids there, being summer school
and all, but thats the most recent one google news brought back.
There were 2 others at night that were more recent.
Apparently schools are constantly catching on fire.
|7.26.07 @ 12:51PM|#
Yeah, schools have chem labs and home ec classes, so fire drills are perfectly appropriate. However, schools also have disaffected teenager who are mocked and humiliated by their peers, so maybe school shooting drills are in order as well.
Dave W.|7.26.07 @ 12:52PM|#
somebody ought to do a similar analysis about how long a po-po would need to work on avg before s/he could expect to be murdered (as distinct from felony-murdered) in the line of duty.
robc|7.26.07 @ 12:53PM|#
On Sunday, 8 children were injured in an elementary school fire in the Phillipines.
robc|7.26.07 @ 12:54PM|#
Last Thursday:
500 kids evacuated from school on fire in the UK.
Its an international conspiracy!!!
Urkobold@trade;|7.26.07 @ 12:58PM|#
SCHOOLS IN THE URKOBOLD'S POSH NEIGHBORHOOD HAVE GLOBAL WARMING
DRILLS.
WELL, YOU NEVER KNOW.
Urkobold™|7.26.07 @ 12:59PM|#
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS KEYBOARD? VIKING MINION, GET OVER HERE AND FIX THIS THING.
|7.26.07 @ 1:11PM|#
Our local paper has the story of a school fire alarm sounding for a continuous 29 hours. Neighbors complained about the sound to the authorities, but it being summer and school out, it took that long to find a way to turn the claxon off. I surprised no one shot up the school to try to stop the alarm!
|7.26.07 @ 1:22PM|#
OK, so school fires in the United States are roughly 10X as
likely as school school shootings, which means the avearge school
will have a fire once every 1200 years.
Let's compare deaths, shall we?
Episiarch|7.26.07 @ 1:23PM|#
The idea of a cop "thinking outside the box" is hilarious. And he goes on to demonstrate why it is hilarious.
LibertyPlease|7.26.07 @ 1:33PM|#
"The idea of a cop "thinking outside the box" is hilarious.
And he goes on to demonstrate why it is hilarious."
That's hilarious
|7.26.07 @ 1:35PM|#
Sorry Joe,
During the four-year period of 1999-2002, an estimated average
of 7,070 structure fires in educational
properties were reported per year. These fires caused an annual
average of 113 civilian fire injuries, and
$112 million in direct property damage. Civilian deaths in these
properties averaged less than one per
year during this time. National Fire Protection Assn.
1958, Lady of Angels school fire in Chicago killed 95. This
prompted code changes including the addition of sprinklers in new
facilities which has made fatalities pretty rare, however the
potential remains for large-life loss events, particularly in older
structures, so drills are still a good idea.
|7.26.07 @ 1:38PM|#
Eh. You can't train people who don't care how to respond to a
violent person. A fire follows rules that make certain activities
always useful. The point of fire drills is to have A way out of the
building in your head. That's all you get.
This is a waste of money in the name of making people feel better.
I'm reminded of feel good self defence classes that pop up suddenly
after these things occur (okay, now stomp on his foot and scream
"NO!"). Not to mention that police know next to nothing about what
a non officer should do during the act. Officers never train in how
to hide or where to go. They are just lending their badges as
symbols of authority to a feel good measure.
Not the worst thing that has ever happened, but I get annoyed when
people act as though if only there were more government education
like this, we'd be better off.
Officer Barbrady|7.26.07 @ 1:41PM|#
And two, because when the rare school shooting does happen,
it's generally over before a SWAT could have scrambled to the
scene, anyway.
Right. And, it gives the regular police pussies who get there first
while there still might be a chance to do something an excuse to
sit on their fat asses while they wait for the SWAT team cowards to
finish raiding a poker party.
"Hey, when I signed up for this job I thought I'd be going after
dope smoking hippies, nineteen year-old college kids trying to buy
beer and some guy in a BMW doing 50 in a 35. These guys have real
guns and they're using them! Fuck that, I'm not messing with them.
Hey, is that a cherry-filled? I'll trade you my last powdered for
it."
|7.26.07 @ 1:42PM|#
Sorry about what?
Civilian deaths in these properties averaged less than one
per
year during this time.
OK. Littleton was 12. That's a higher average annual death toll
from school shootings than school fires, from that one event, all
by itself.
The point of fire drills is to have A way out of the building
in your head. That's all you get.
Actually, the point of fire drills, like most emergency exercises,
is to make the appropriate behavior in the emergency second-nature
to the endangered people, so they will know what to do and not
panic.
|7.26.07 @ 1:44PM|#
And when was the last time you heard of a school full of kids catching on fire, anyway?
Great White played my prom...
|7.26.07 @ 1:50PM|#
"Actually, the point of fire drills, like most emergency
exercises, is to make the appropriate behavior in the emergency
second-nature to the endangered people, so they will know what to
do and not panic."
Which you can do with something like, "take the stairs, leave the
building", but not like "hide under desk, listen for feet, tiptoe
across hall but move quickly enough not to stay exposed for too
long, move from cover to cover, blah blah blah, and get to
safety."
|7.26.07 @ 1:52PM|#
This reminds me of a bomb-threat checklist I reviewed for a former employer. It had all sorts of things about how to look for the explosive, who to call, what not to touch, etc., but it left out one key instruction: Get the heck out of the building.
dhex|7.26.07 @ 2:25PM|#
"but it left out one key instruction: Get the heck out of the
building."
classic workplace safety.
|7.26.07 @ 2:28PM|#
Actually, the point of fire drills, like most emergency exercises, is to make the appropriate behavior in the emergency second-nature to the endangered people, so they will know what to do and not panic.
Except that the appropriate behavior for a school shooting,
self-defense, is either illegal or so extremly taboo that they are
never going to teach the appropriate behavior.
I mean, teaching students how to get on their knees and beg for
their life, or huddle helplessly in the corner, doesn't seem that
useful... and I am sure having the kids practice jumping out of the
window would kill more students than school shootings
themselves.
In theory, I am not against school shooting drills any more than
fire drills, but what exactly are you going to teach kids. These
school drills are "duck and cover" fearmongering, not anything
useful.
You would probably save more lives spending the resources teaching
kids CPR, or spending the resources warning them about drunk
driving, than spending it on school shooting drills. There was
never a school shooting when I was going to school, but a couple
kids WHERE saved by a faculty member or student who knew CPR, and a
couple of kids did get drunk and kill themselves in a car.
|7.26.07 @ 2:38PM|#
Rex,
Do you recommend that the fourth graders attend school with
firearms on their persons, or that they charge school shooters with
their bare hands?
VM|7.26.07 @ 2:42PM|#
like the bloom county nuqular safety drill.
Oh mighty URKOBOLD - take off thy LONEWACKJOB gloves when typing.
It helPsmItigAte spelung fromMeletaryLoierTypes
|7.26.07 @ 2:42PM|#
Ok...so in a fire, we train people to walk out calmly and don't
panic. How about me, having been to firefighting school, would it
be better for me to walk away from the problem or solve it before
it got a lot worse? Lets assume I had a way to get the hose out of
the wall, and the mechanics of turning it on, etc, were covered, so
it came down to me using my training and equipment or not?
I would think so, you could try, at least. Same situation with a
permit holder firing back. I don't know, makes too much sense to
me.
BTW, I did go to firefighting school many years ago compliments of
the Navy, and I'm also pretty well trained with a firearm, so it's
not so hypothetical as you might think.
|7.26.07 @ 2:46PM|#
We should train kids who are mocked and humiliated to only shoot
the people who mocked and humiliated them.
I should be a social worker, as opposed to the so-so worker I
am.
|7.26.07 @ 2:46PM|#
Do you recommend that the fourth graders attend school with
firearms on their persons, or that they charge school shooters with
their bare hands?
Head-butt to the nuts is the typical self-defense tactic taught to
4th graders. It doesn't handle female terrorists, but hey, we train
based on the odds, right?
|7.26.07 @ 2:49PM|#
Other Matt,
This drill and instructions are being given to children attending
school during school hours. I really don't think that they are
going to have either the training or equipment to out-shoot an
armed attacker.
Jennifer|7.26.07 @ 3:09PM|#
Cops can't think outside the box. Cops are the
box.
You can't really compare school fires with school shootings unless
Congress first passes a law making it illegal for people in burning
buildings to have on hand an effective tool for dousing the flames,
because schools are officially designated "fire free zones."
|7.26.07 @ 3:10PM|#
Do you recommend that the fourth graders attend school with firearms on their persons, or that they charge school shooters with their bare hands?
You are trying to be snarky, but teaching fourth graders about
firearms, or to charge school shooters with their bare hands, are
pretty much the only thing you are going to teach them that would
be any use. If that suggestion seems ridiculous, then maybe the
whole idea of school-shooting drills are ridiculous.
You want your cake and eat it too! You want to train kids for
ridiculous John Carpenter B movie scenarios, that are less likely
to kill them than a meteor strike... but you want us to address
this irrational fearmonger threat in what you percieve to be a
rational manner.
It is like you argueing that we should teach kids how to deal with
Godzilla attacks, but balking when I suggest we teach them how to
pilot MechaGodzillas Robots. If you didn't take us into the realm
of insanity by suggesting that crazed gunmen are reasonable thing
to teach kids how to deal with, then you wouldn't get an answer
such as teaching kids to attack gunmen with their bare hands.
I much rather see kids learn CPR, or learn the dangers of drunk
driving than whatever paranoid, than waste the money on ridiculous
things like school shooting drills. But if YOU insist on school
shooting drills, fine... Lets actually teach the kids something
more useful than to grovel before they die. Lets train kids in SWAT
tactics and counterterrorism, so that they can deal with school
shootings in a useful manner.
Sal Paradise|7.26.07 @ 3:16PM|#
Bah. We need to teach them how to call Gamera. He is the friend of all children.
|7.26.07 @ 3:33PM|#
Rex,
Doesn't the fact that you need to misstake the facts in order for
your point to look reasonable suggest anything to you?
What "grovelling?" What "begging?"
|7.26.07 @ 3:35PM|#
P Brooks,
Sorry, I was already beater to the punch.
The sum total of all deaths from school fires in the past decade is
less than the death total from Columbine High, and less than a
third of that from Virginia Tech.
While we're estimating probabilities.
|7.26.07 @ 3:37PM|#
"You would probably save more lives spending the resources
teaching kids CPR, or spending the resources warning them about
drunk driving, than spending it on school shooting drills. There
was never a school shooting when I was going to school, but a
couple kids WHERE saved by a faculty member or student who knew
CPR, and a couple of kids did get drunk and kill themselves in a
car."
Mr Rhino, please step to the center of the ring and raise your
hands over your head. [da winnah!]
|7.26.07 @ 3:38PM|#
This drill and instructions are being given to children
attending school during school hours. I really don't think that
they are going to have either the training or equipment to
out-shoot an armed attacker.
But perhaps the teachers would. Obviously small kids are one thing,
college age kids (all legal adults, or most all with a few
statistical outliers) are something else entirely.
I guess my beef is with the "let the professionals handle it..."
mentality. We are treated like errant children for the most part.
Or, perhaps it's just being oversensitive having just come out of
DC for most of the day heading back into MD.
|7.26.07 @ 3:55PM|#
I can appreciate that sentiment, Other Matt.
But these actually are children. It's ok to treat them
children.
Urkobold™|7.26.07 @ 4:07PM|#
EXCELLENT, JOE. THE URKOBOLD WAS WORRIED THAT HE'D HAVE TROUBLE THINKING UP ANOTHER BOOK IDEA. YOU ARE SINGLE-HANDEDLY PUTTING THE URKOBOLD'S MINIONS THROUGH COLLEGE.
|7.26.07 @ 4:15PM|#
Doesn't the fact that you need to misstake the facts in order for your point to look reasonable suggest anything to you?
What "grovelling?" What "begging?"
Oh, I am sorry joe, "huddling and being quiet" as the article
says... groveling and begging would be way too pro-active for
you!
You have failed to demonstrate how teaching kids to be passive
victims would help them in the extremly unlikely event of a school
shooting. Like I said, if we are going to indulge in preparing for
your irrational fantasies, then lets actually prepare. If we are
going to teach kids how to stand around and do nothing while
someone shoots at them, why even bother?
My only guess is that you realize that the only gunmen kids are
going to see is a police officer searching for drugs... teaching
kids to defend themselves could be used as a weapon against the
benevolent police state that you admire.
|7.26.07 @ 4:17PM|#
NO WAY. YOU GET INTO YOUR UFC KARATE STANCE AND DRAW YOUR 88
MAGNUM AND BLAST THE FUCKERS. BOOM BOOM. CARRIED BY TWELVE. HUMPED
BY SIX. ARGH! BLARGH. GURGLEGURGLE.
Wow, it's like listening to Neal Boortz in the days following
Virginia Tech all over again.
|7.26.07 @ 4:26PM|#
Oh, I am sorry joe, "huddling and being quiet" as the
article says... groveling and begging would be way too pro-active
for you!
Um, huddling and being quiet is what you do if there isn't any
gunman there. You are deliberately misstating what the article says
to make it appear that the drills are teaching people to be passive
when they are attacked, just to give yourself something to flail
at.
The only one talking about people "being passive victims" is you. I
guess arguing against what they actually recommend is too tough for
you.
|7.26.07 @ 4:29PM|#
If an armed wacko storms a school and starts blowing people
away, I don't think "run and/or hide" training is going to make
much of a difference, especially if the school is full of little
kids. There just isn't much untrained, unarmed people can do to
protect themselves from crazies with guns. If this makes people
feel better and they want it, fine, do it- but let's admit that
it's being done to make people feel better.
A fire drill makes a bit of sense- it's all run, as in "run the
hell out of the building following this exact route and don't think
too much about it." Sound advice and probably good that little kids
be familiar with it.
|7.26.07 @ 4:30PM|#
I predict that the number of people who will criticize Rex for wanting to teach kids and teachers to use firearms, as a means of Preparing for That Once-in-Twelve-Millenia Tragedy will be zero.
|7.26.07 @ 4:30PM|#
The article was very short and the only training I saw being
discussed was of the "run and/or hide" variety. I wouldn't call
running or actively trying to hide exactly passive.
Totally not passive, would, I suppose, be my H&K returning
fire.
|7.26.07 @ 4:31PM|#
There are other good reasons for teaching kids to use firearms. Teachers, I'm not so sure. /wink
|7.26.07 @ 5:52PM|#
I predict that the number of people who will criticize Rex for wanting to teach kids and teachers to use firearms, as a means of Preparing for That Once-in-Twelve-Millenia Tragedy will be zero.
If a teacher wants to jump through the training and bureaucratic
hoops to get a concealed carry permit, then I see no reason to
prohibit them from carrying at school.
As to kids and guns, I think that a basic safety course in jr. high
or high school along the same lines as drivers ed or sex ed isn't a
bad idea.
|7.26.07 @ 6:20PM|#
I predict that the number of people who will criticize Rex for wanting to teach kids and teachers to use firearms, as a means of Preparing for That Once-in-Twelve-Millenia Tragedy will be zero.
Because my suggestion takes in account the absurdity of it all. I
realize that teaching kids to deal with crazed gunmen is absurd in
itself... so if my solution to the problem is a bit absurd, then so
be it. Welcome to crazy-world!
You can say my idea is crazy, I *KNOW* it is crazy. I suggested
kids learn CPR, you are the one who thinks training kids to deal
with crazed gunmen is a good idea! But if we are going to take a
trip down the road of maddness, lets do it right!
Where as you, joe, are accepting this "duck and cover" syle BS with
a straight face.
|7.26.07 @ 7:19PM|#
For all those who are claiming that using time and resources to teach children ineffective stragies against extremely unlikely events is a waste of government resources and classroom time, I would suggest that it is no more of a waste than 90% of the other things kids are taught in public schools.
LarryA|7.26.07 @ 7:24PM|#
I predict that the number of people who will criticize Rex
for wanting to teach kids and teachers to use firearms, as a means
of Preparing for That Once-in-Twelve-Millenia Tragedy will be
zero.
1) At VA Tech the "Gun-Free-Zone" process worked just as it was
designed. Thirty two innocent people were killed. If we keep using
the same procedure, we should continue to expect the same results.
Is that acceptable? If not, what should be changed?
2) The chances of being caught in a school shooting are remote, as
are the chances of being caught in workplace violence. The chances
of random criminal attack are not so remote. I for one find it
reasonable to carry a licensed concealed handgun just in
case.
In the last ten years I've never had to draw it. But I have been in
three situations where I (and in one case people around me) were
glad I was armed.
|7.27.07 @ 11:00AM|#
"This is a waste of money in the name of making people feel
better. I'm reminded of feel good self defence classes that pop up
suddenly after these things occur (okay, now stomp on his foot and
scream "NO!")"
You're right, feel good training is a waste of money and promotes
false confidence.
However effective training does work and helps a person deescalate
a situation in a way that is appropriate for the situation. And you
don't necessarily need a gun to be effective against an armed
assailant.
Along Rex's line of thinking - i.e. actually doing something useful
if you are going to bother preparing (read:scaring) for the
unlikely shooting event - perhaps we could teach teachers effective
self-defense training such as Model Mugging. Even if they get hurt
going up against a gun or knife, they are likely to live and save a
few lives in process. I know. It works. I've used it and so have
lots of other people.
|7.27.07 @ 11:04AM|#
And one more thing...
Whoever said we should focus on real threats such as obesity and
drunk driving...that is spot on!
Letting (making) your young child get obese is criminal. And
injurious. And irresponsible. And, well you get the idea.
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