Brian Doherty | May 29, 2007
National Review's redoubtable John Derbyshire begins to contemplate giving anarchism a chance, over at the Corner:
The more I contemplate our federal government and its works, the better Murray Rothbard is starting to look.
I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Probably there are limits. (The quip about Rothbard used to be that in a Rothbardian world, the proprietor of a lighthouse, seeing that some ship at sea was using the lighthouse to navigate by, would have to jump into a rowboat, make his way to the ship, and demand a fee from the captain.) It may be that immigration control is inside those limits, though.It was in 1949 that Rothbard first concluded that the free market could provide all services, including police, courts, and defense services better than could the State.
That lighthouse canard is an oldie-but-baddie for those mocking libertarian anarchists. Here, from an article by Dr. Rothbard himself, is a discussion of the facts of the lighthouse matter, relying on the scholarship of Nobel prize winner Ronald Coase:
To Professor [James] Buchanan, the "classic" example of a collective good is the lighthouse. The beams of the lighthouse are indivisible: "If one boat gets all the light beams, all boats may do likewise." Or, as Samuelson has put it, "A businessman could not build it for a profit, since he cannot claim a price from each user." The theory is that it would be virtually impossible for a lighthouse keeper to row out to each boat to demand payment for use of the light. And that hence lighthouses have always been supplied by government.
..............
In his trenchant critique of the offhanded way in which economists, from Mill to Samuelson and Arrow, have wrongly used the lighthouse as an example of a collective good, [Ronald] Coase concludes:
These references by economists to lighthouses are not the result of their having made a study of lighthouses or having read a detailed study by some other economist. Despite the extensive use of the lighthouse example in the literature, no economist, to my knowledge, has ever made a comprehensive study of lighthouse finance and administration. The lighthouse is simply plucked out of the air to serve as an illustration....
......contrary to the belief of many economists, a lighthouse service can be provided by private enterprise.... The lighthouses were built, operated, financed and owned by private individuals, who could sell the lighthouse or dispose of it by bequest. The role of the government was limited to the establishment and enforcement of property rights in the lighthouse. The charges were collected at ports by agents from the lighthouses. The problem of enforcement was no different for them than for other suppliers of goods and services to the shipowner.
Coase the lighthouse mythslayer was interviewed by reason in our January 1997 issue.
To get better educated on Rothbard than is the Derb, read, of course, my new book Radicals for Capitalism: A Freewheeling History of the Modern American Libertarian Movement .
Help Reason celebrate its next 40 years. Donate Now!
Try Reason's award-winning print edition today! Your first issue is FREE if you are not completely satisfied.
"National Review's redoubtable John
Derbyshire..."
"Redoubtable" means I shouldn't take his word for it, right?
Ron Paul? Name rings a bell...
I see/hear a bright future in buoys programmed to ring out
commercial and political messages, on the order of Burma-Shave
canons, in the rocky shallows surrounding yon lighthouse...
When I was younger, I used to be a lot more interested in theoretical discussions about how we could have dogcatchers or lighthouses or whatever without the government. Now, I feel like it's just a distraction from the libertarian movement's focusing on the big stuff: wars, civil rights, massive public debt, etc.
Sorry, back during the battles over the war, etc., Derbyshire
wrote some shit over at the Corner that I just can't seem to
forget.
So Derbyshire's talkin' about Rothbard? I'd rather read about what
Doherty has to say.
"The charges were collected at ports by agents from the
lighthouses. The problem of enforcement was no different for them
than for other suppliers of goods and services to the
shipowner."
I imagine port operators, railroads, trucking companies,
manufacturers, insurance companies and myriad others who benefit
from having ships come safely to port, might benefit from giving
lighthouse services to ship captains for free.
But you still need a government to provide enforcement. This Coase sounds like a crypto-statist to me.
he's the only scientifically literate person at nr, so let's
celebrate that. he's also one of the few folk there who, when
presented with the coase response, would say, "oh, well then, never
mind, let's find a better example," as opposed to, "look at those
wacky libertarians!"
he'd then do a probabilistic analysis of lighthouse placement
relative to water current velocity.
I imagine port operators, railroads, trucking companies,
manufacturers, insurance companies and myriad others who benefit
from having ships come safely to port, might benefit from giving
lighthouse services to ship captains for free.
Indeed. In my opinion, the most likely constitution of anarchy will
have insurance companies serving as the organizational nexus that
government serves now.
To insurance companies, lighthouses are no-brainers.
It seems like insurance companies would contract for most formerly government services--lighthouses, police and courts, fire (which they definitely did), levees, etc.
I seem to recall reading some years ago that fees for the use of
private lighthouses were usually bundled in with the fees that
shippers paid to use the associate harbor.
But you still need a government to provide enforcement. This
Coase sounds like a crypto-statist to me.
You know nothing. At least about Coase. The point under discussion
is whether you can privately sell services that are conventionally
thought of as public goods that only the government can provide.
This example shows that, with a little bit of thought, you can find
ways to do so, at least in some cases -- specifically, e.g., the
case that used to be held up as the classic example of why
you couldn't.
Enforcement (to ensure of getting paid by selling those services)
by private means is another issue. On that score, you might also
read up on the degree to which various nations used to rely heavily
on private versus government means to enforce the law in general
(including during the classic Age of Sail, and especially the case
with England, a leading maritime nation.) Start by looking around
David D. Friedman's Web site. The following writings are available
online there:
"Making Sense of English Law Enforcement in the Eighteenth
Century," The University of Chicago Law School Roundtable
(Spring/Summer 1995).
"Law as a Private Good," Economics and Philosophy 10 (1994), 319-
327.
"Private Creation and Enforcement of Law -- A Historical Case."
Journal of Legal Studies , (March 1979), pp. 399-415.
"Less Law than Meets the Eye,"a review of Order Without Law, by
Robert Ellickson, The Michigan Law Review vol. 90 no. 6, (May 1992)
pp.1444-1452.
Lighthouses aside, getting 12 million people legally integrated
into our current system (or even the most radically libertarian
version of it possible within 4-8 years) is going to cost a ton of
cash and require a mind-boggling bureaucratic effort. I think
Derb's point is that citizen-taxpayers shouldn't have to foot the
bill for that. Has anyone read Derb's "Libertarianism in One
Country"?
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTNiMDIxNTk3NGQ0NTUyYmExMWE0NGE2NTk1Mzc1Yzk=
He's got a point that strong U.S. Sovereignty is probably all that
keeps libertarianism alive in the U.S.; are the U.N. and the E.U.
moving things towards liberty in their spheres of influence? Will
mass immigration favor or harm liberty here?
I don't remember the priest telling me when I went to Confession when I was a kid, "Well, Lance, it was wrong of you to disobey your mom and talk back to her like that, but since you set the table every night and do your homework and sent your aunt a birthday card, what the heck! You're a good kid. Your sins are forgiven automatically. 糖尿病 心脑血管 文秘 糖尿病分型 糖尿病 maybe it's happened a few times and I haven't heard about it but I can't recall a judge ever letting somebody walk on the grounds the crook was a good guy and his friends really like him.
getting 12 million people legally integrated into our
current system (or even the most radically libertarian version of
it possible within 4-8 years) is going to cost a ton of
cash
as our previous experience with immigration shows, if we make
"legally" a whole lot simpler, the cost is very low compared to the
gains, and not nearly as high as it is made out to be. the
difficulty is getting past the lawyers, the pc hustlers, and the
bumper-sticker slogans, and implementing a rational immigration
policy: fairly open borders, no welfare before citizenship, no
citizenship without x years of productive, tax-paying work.
I'm curious to know what Rothbard's take would be on this
story:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20070529-1541-homelandinsecurity.html
Lets say I own a ship and I pull into a harbor I've never been
to before. Then say I go up to the lighthouse owner and say "thanks
for the free light, but I never made an agreement to pay you for
that so I'm not going to". Would I be within my rights to refuse
payment?
I guess many private parties who would benefit from the lighthouse
could get together and work out a mutually beneficial contractual
arrangement to fund one. There would, however, probably be
substantial negotiating costs and a few free riders.
I don't really have a strong opinion on what the proper role of
government is with respect to lighthouses, if anything. I'm just
sort of thinking out loud (or, technically, thinking in the form of
typed words).
"Would I be within my rights to refuse payment?"
Of course.
On the other hand, your harbormaster would be well within his
rights to refuse to sell you the last ten feet or so of deck to
your boat.
BG,
The free rider problem is not such a big problem; Walmart allows
you to park in their parking lot without coming into the store
(which is convenient for diaper changes on a long trip). The fact
is that the parking lot is most profitable to Walmart when they
make it widely available to potential customers. The few lost
spaces to free riders are not worth the trouble.
In the case of light houses, it is in the interest of the port
owners and the merchants to make entry into the ports as easy as
possible. One of the two groups will get together to fund a light
house. If the port owners do it, everyone pays the harbor fee. It a
merchant association decides it is worth their money t build a
lighthouse, the cost will be borne by the members of the
association. Any free riders do not diminish the value of the
lighthouse, so they will not detract form the merchants' ability to
use the lighthouse. Thus, if the merchants' association calculates
that the lighthouse is profitable for them to maintain, the
calculation will not be affected by the presence of
free-riders.
You don't just pop into a harbor you've never been to before (or
indeed to one you *have* been to before)
You contact such ports beforehand and make arrangements for pilot
services, berthings, hotel services, in addition to arrangements
for cargo - the port then charges you fees based on your
consumption of these services.
In the old days before you could easily call ahead you made these
arangements on the spot with the local port authority and if you
didn't like the prices you didn't pull into the port.
The lighthouse charges the port authority a fee to keep the
lighthouse lit - the authority agrees because the light is a
service to its customers worth the cost.
Vessels don't actually interact with the house at all.
"I'm curious to know what Rothbard's take would be on this
story:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20070529-1541-homelandinsecurity.html"
Well, Rothbard's dead so we'll never know what he would say, but
speaking as an anarchist who was highly influenced by Rothbard I
would say that that article illustrates what is wrong with the
incentive structure of governmental agents--i.e., they profit from
government spending regardless of the results that spending
produces. Can you imagine a private company with even a quarter of
the federal government's resources deliberately hiring shoddy
guards for high-risk projects?
getting 12 million people legally integrated into our current system (or even the most radically libertarian version of it possible within 4-8 years) is going to cost a ton of cash
I don't think the argument works, because basically what
Rothbard is saying is that if you control a monopoly good that
people must use, that gives you a chance to secure payments - and
with those payments you can subsidize another related good that you
might otherwise have trouble securing payment for.
You still can't build a freestanding lighthouse and make it pay.
You can only recoup your expense if your lighthouse is integrated
into a larger harbor system - and only if you have a monopoly. If
more than one individual can dock ships at the harbor, neither
should build a lighthouse, because if they do their competitor's
customers can use it for free.
How do you get stable monopolies in harbor services? You almost
certainly can't, without doing it by fiat.
Fluffy,
The free rider problem is not a problem! If Ship owner A decides it
is worth the expense to build a lighthouse, he will build it.
Other people taking advantage of the lighthouse's existence in no
way reduces the lighthouse's utility to the guy who built it.
In fact there have been lighthouses used to warn ships of dangerous
shoals that were funded by merchants associations for this very
reason. The merchants in the association felt a lighthouse would
reduce their losses enough to pay for itself. Other people such as
non-aligned merchants also using it didn't alter that
calculation.
Not everything in an anarcho-capitalistic socieity need make itstelf "pay". Common goods, paid for by volunatary contributions can exist in such systems. A lighthouse would benifit the Harbor area as a whole. One could easily imagine the merchants that benifit from a booming Harbor bonding together to fund a lighthouse.
One could easily imagine the merchants that benifit from a
booming Harbor bonding together to fund a lighthouse.
Right, and as long as you don't call it a government, people are
cool with it.
That seems to be the crux of a lot of these
discussions...libertarians don't care for the government or the
state but are big fans of people joining together to create rules,
collect revenue, own common property, etc.
Just don't call it a government.
Coase: Some have said what happened in lighthouses wasn't
really private enterprise. The government was involved in some way
in setting the rights and so on. I think that's humbug because you
could say that there's no private property in houses by that logic,
since you can't transfer your rights to a house without the
examination of title and registration and without obeying a whole
series of regulations, many enforced by government.
IOW, he's saying that the government needs to be involved in
everything, not just lighthouses.
http://www.independent.org/publications/working_papers/article.asp?id=757
Historically, according to Van Zandt, "private" provision
involved government granted lighthouse owners monopolies,
government-set lighthouse fees (so-called "light dues"), and
governmental assistance in fee-collection enforcement. As noted by
Johnson (1890, p. 113), "Payment of light dues is made to and
enforced by the customs offices, and they are a lien on ship and
cargo. They usually appear in the bill of port charges."
Tarran -
I think the assertion that free ridership isn't a problem probably
would not stand up to actual implementation. It's not a problem
until a critical mass of people decide to be free riders.
And a merchant that went around spending resources to make capital
improvements that all other merchants could use for free would be
competed into oblivion in the long run.
I think it's really overconfident to assume that people will line
up to put themselves in a position where they will be outcompeted.
Free ridership becomes a problem when people can anticipate that
the resources they are deploying will be free-ridden on. The
merchant with foresight will refrain from making a capital
improvement that will cost him alone, but will benefit all his
competitors as well. And that's only on the basis of pure
calculation of advantage - I think you also have to account for the
fact that the presence of free riders outrages the basic sense of
justice of many system participants, and the merchant with
foresight might not only refrain from building a lighthouse for
competitive reasons, but because he just doesn't like the idea of
his competitors benefitting from his effort for free.
Frankly, if free ridership isn't really a problem, what's
everyone's problem with socialism? So what if the productive are
exploited. As long as they get any benefit from their production,
who cares if free riders also benefit from it. Right?
That seems to be the crux of a lot of these
discussions...libertarians don't care for the government or the
state but are big fans of people joining together to create rules,
collect revenue, own common property, etc.
Just don't call it a government.
Libertarians aren't opposed to government. We're opposed to the
state. Libertarians have spent a lot of time and effort explaining
how we think governments will work in the absence of monopoly
power.
- Josh
Fluffy,
There is no doubt that the situation you describe could happen. The
local Chamber of Commerce folded in my neighborhood for exactly
that reason. But over in Miami Beach, their Chamber is still
running strong and has been for a number of decades. And a
Lighhouse is really no different than a chamber. For a fictional
example of a quasi anarcho capitalistic society, look at the HBO
program "Deadwood". In Season One they had a plauge. The merchant
class called a meeting, and everyone pitched in to go get vaccine
and set up a sick tent. Self interest compells them to create a
common good. And don't forget the power of social sanction. When
EB's contribution is questioned for being a bit too light, he adds
more, because having a positive relationship with the other
businesses is a form of self interest as well-in a tight kit
community, social pressure alone could solve the freeboater issue.
Later on in the series, the same men get together to establish a
system of voluntary contributions to be used for bribes to the US
Government. When Doc Cocharan falls ill, Cy suggests to Al that
they put an ad in the Eastern papers looking for a new Doc. Now Al
could, as you point out, figure that Cy needs that ad just as much
as he does, and if he refuses to pony up his share, Cy will be
forced to pay all of it, but that's just not the way people operate
in real life. And to answer your final question, the problem people
have with socialism is not "free ridership" but these relationships
come about not through free will and voluntary trade, but rather,
with a government gun pointed in your face.
And to answer your final question, the problem people have
with socialism is not "free ridership" but these relationships come
about not through free will and voluntary trade, but rather, with a
government gun pointed in your face.
But let's be accurate - in a free market society the government is
still sticking a gun in your face.
FDS -
I would have to say that mere opposition to compulsion is not the
real problem most people have with socialism.
Other than true anarchists, everyone concedes the power of the
state to compel something.
People object to the power of the state being used to compel the
pooling of property or the proceeds of labor because they don't
think that particular compulsion is fair or just. The economic and
political failure of collectivism can actually be pretty neatly
understood as a mass objection to the presence of free riders - no
one wants to be the dupe of the system, so everyone competes to see
who can be the best free rider instead. We can talk all we want
about Hayekian arguments against the utility of central planning,
etc., but on the ground people "check out" of socialist schemes by
not producing as much.
Lighthouses sweep (or blink) in a unique pattern. In a coast with multiple lighthouses, you can tell which one you are looking at. If you can get a bearing to two lighthouses, you know where you are. The lighthouse owner can change the code daily, and sell the code book to shipowners. The free rider problem disappears. Military coded GPS is the same idea. So is XM radio.
Nasika,
My comment was more a hypothetical one (R.I.P., Mr.
Rothbard).
Can you imagine a private company with even a quarter of the
federal government's resources deliberately hiring shoddy guards
for high-risk projects?
That was the point of the article, was it not? That private
industries, when left to their own devices, are going to cut as
many corners as possible in order to increase their profit margin,
regardless of quality. That's fine if you're making novelty items,
but not if you're contracted to field a security team assigned to
protect potential targets from terrorist attacks. You get what you
pay for.
"anarchy will have insurance companies serving as the
organizational nexus that government serves now"
I got shivers with that one...
So would government work better with higher deductibles?
So would government work better with higher
deductibles?
Yes, in a manner of speaking.
If government provided only a true safety net and did not
try to micromanage so many small displacements in people's lives,
government would be vastly smaller and much less expensive, and the
populace would be far better off.
That private industries, when left to their own devices, are
going to cut as many corners as possible in order to increase their
profit margin, regardless of quality.-spd
This comment illustrates the fallacy of thought that looks at a
"market failure" hypothetical without considering the "government
failure" converse.
The idea that private business "cuts corners whenever
possible...regardless of quality" simply is not true in the real
world because to do so would invite loss of market share to another
firm or firms who would profit from the
bad publicity, or customer dissatisfaction, resulting from the cost
cutting.
Not to mention that the increased profits that theoritically would
result from such foolish cost cutting would also invite more
competition into the market. Competiton that could fail, or could
result in better products. Either way, market share would
diminish.
No. Profits are made almost always NOT from foolish cost cutting,
but from well planned cost cutting that carefully distinguishes
what can properly be cut while still satisfying customers and
improving product and service.
It is government (the monopoly, non cost cutting type) that refuses
to improve service while constantly RAISING prices. EG, Post
Office, Education, Medical Care involvement, Military waste, the
FAA, FDA, etc. etc ad infinitum.
When I was younger, I used to be a lot more interested in
theoretical discussions about how we could have dogcatchers or
lighthouses or whatever without the government. Now, I feel like
it's just a distraction from the libertarian movement's focusing on
the big stuff: wars, civil rights, massive public debt, etc.=Mike
Laursen
Mike--
We are at the beginning of a new century. Imagine the world in
1906. Could anyone have ever imagined in the Progressive Era how
the dominant ideas of a technological elite overseeing a
centralized state conceived for social engineering the horrors of
totalitarianism that it produced?
We are at what could be the tail end of that era. The era of the
nation state, or certainly of the continuing centralization of
power in same, is over.
In Somalia, we have the first Westphalian nation state to
consciously rid itself of government.
We have intellectuals of every strife writing about the end of the
nation state.
We have fourth generation war bogging down the world's greatest
superpower in a hopeless endgame.
We have citizens rejecting centralization, and secession is being
discussed and acted upon all over the world. The world's empires
are falling.
Yes, the governments are lashing out, and the next decades could
see more repression, loss of civil liberties, maybe even a very bad
war.
But, don't you think our job is to hold up the theoritical light of
liberty even in the face of repression so that our children and
grandchildren have a chance to utilize the wealth and technology
they will possess to make a new, free world?
One World Government is dead! Long live One World AnarchY!
Murray Rothbard, RIP!!
"That seems to be the crux of a lot of these
discussions...libertarians don't care for the government or the
state but are big fans of people joining together to create rules,
collect revenue, own common property, etc."
It's all fine and dandy with this libertarian 'til the guys that
collect the revenue to finance operations on their common property
decide that everybody in town has to pay for the lighthouse whether
they want to or not.
...it ain't about semantics.
Frankly, if free ridership isn't really a problem, what's
everyone's problem with socialism?
Coercion. Duh.
Site comments/questions:
Media Inquiries and Reprint Permissions:
(310) 367-6109
Editorial & Production Offices:
3415 S. Sepulveda Blvd.
Suite 400
Los Angeles, CA 90034
(310) 391-2245