Hey Kids: Tonight You're Young, Tomorrow You're Unemployed

The Grammys, Obama's State of the Union, and What's Really Wrong with Today's Youth.

credit LA Timescredit LA TimesIf you want to get a handle on just how truly depraved and irredeemable today’s youth is, consider the revolting spectacle that was last week's Grammy Awards, the recording industry’s highest honors.

I’m not talking about the studiously calculated display of what screenwriter William Goldman once called “full sidal nudity” by a seemingly endless procession of scantily clad singers such as Rihanna, Katy Perry, and Alicia Keys. Nor am I at all concerned that pop stars and the kids to whom they sell may be dangerously oversexed, over-drugged, or overweight.

My concern is something like the exact opposite: By virtually all indications, today’s youth is a whipped puppy whose spirit has been decisively house-broken. Consider the truly catchy tune that took home “Song of the Year” Grammy: “We Are Young,” by the ironically uncapitalized group called fun. On a superficial level, the undeniably catchy song celebrates a gather-ye-rosebuds-while-ye-may sensibility that the cavalier poet Robert Herrick would totally grok: “We are young/So let's set the world on fire/We can burn brighter/Than the sun.”

Yet the lyrics to “We Are Young” actually make the case for something else. “If by the time the bar closes/And you feel like falling down/I'll carry you home” croons the singer to a lost or near-lost love. He hints at real or psychic scars and adds, “Now I know that I'm not/All that you got.”

As a generational cri de guerre, this is about as inspiring as the French military effort in the first few weeks of World War II. But it somehow seems perfectly pitched to a generation whose prospects have been fragged by parents and grandparents who have smothered them from birth. Where’s the ire, the anger, and, most important  of all, the symbolic middle finger to mom and dad that has long powered pop music and youth culture like Three Mile Island during a meltdown? Was anyone surprised when a band member for fun. thanked his parents for letting him live at home "for a very long time"?

credit Grammyscredit GrammysIt wasn’t always this way. The zombified remains of the Who, Pete Townshend and Roger Daltrey, may be wheezing through a tour sponsored by Rascal Scooters, but back in the day they unabashedly told their elders “to f-f-f-ade away and not try to dig what we all say.” The Sex Pistols looked what would become known as the Greatest Generation in the eye and snarled about being both anti-christs and anarchists, arguably the only two growing jobs fields in the late 1970s. Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” truculently demanded of educators and parents, “Here we are now, entertain us”! The fadeout of the song channeled one word - “denial” – that called to mind what Melville famously said of Hawthorne: He said “No! in thunder.”

Today’s youth is being turned out into a world where they face an unemployment rate of 13 percent – five points higher than the overall figure – and in which they will be forced for the first time buy health insurance plans they may not want or need to subsidize the premiums of older Americans. It’s a feature, not a bug, of Obamacare that premiums for those under 30 will increase by as much as 50 percent while those over 60 will pay 10 percent less. If the economists Carmen Reinhart, Vincent Reinhart, and Kenneth Rogoff are correct in their “debt overhang” theory, the massive levels of sustained debt the U.S. has racked up over the past decade may substantially reduce economic growth by something like 24 percent over the next twenty years or more.

Yet if a New York Times story that came out the same day as the Grammys is to be trusted, the kids today support the personification of wet blanket government – Barack Obama – far more than any other age range and the under-30 crowd is the only group who ardently believes government “should do more to solve problems.”  Which is really tantamount to saying that government should do more to cause problems.

In fact, in Tuesday’s State of the Union speech, Obama even proposed at least two new programs that promise only to make things slightly worse for American youth. All things being equal, his proposed mininum wage hike – from $7.25 an hour to $9.00 an hour – will only push under-30 joblessness upwards (mandating higher pay for unproven employees doesn’t make them desirable). And his bold proposal for universal preschool means that the four-year-olds of the future will have one less year to roam free (Obama also sketched plans to warehouse still more young people in colleges and vocational schools as well).

So knock yourselves out, kids, when it comes to boozy hook-ups at bars – or the ballot box for that matter. Set the world on fire, burn bright, and all that. Tonight, you're young. Tomorrow, you're either unemployed or working to pay for the retirements of the folks who are cleaning out the buffet tables before you're even out of your seats. 

Until you realize that the older generation is scamming you - contra the Who, they didn't die before they got old - and you channel your inner Johnny Rotten, your future looks a lot less promising than that of fun. (who were also named Best New Artist last week) and a lot more like that of defrocked Grammy winners Milli Vanilli. Until you stop lip-synching along to the policies that are limiting your futures, this could be as good as it gets for you.

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  • sarcasmic||

    GET OFF OF MY LAWN!

  • Killazontherun||

    PUNK IS DEAD, GRANDPA!

  • Almanian!||

    Bah! They said that about rock, too, and yet The Who still live!

  • C. Anacreon||

    I don't think Keith Moon would agree with you.

  • Almanian!||

    Keith Moon =/= "The Who"

  • Mensan||

    Type "& n e" without the quotation marks or spaces, and you get ≠.

  • DrAwkward||

    Hey that tip ≠ useless.

  • ||

    a&nea;
    er...somethin

  • ||

    ≠ & n e "& n e" without quotes

  • ||

    OR perhaps

    & n e ≠ "& n e"

  • Mensan||

    Every once in a while I do something right. My patients usually appreciate that.

  • SIV||

    I would strongly disagree. "The Who" were nothing but a totally shit revival act right after he died. Anyone who saw that first tour with Kenny Jones on drums knows this is true.

  • Loyce-Meyers||

    as Wayne replied I'm stunned that some people able to profit $5941 in one month on the internet. did you read this link... http://www.ace60.com

  • ||

    Lorne Michaels made me a better offer.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    What do last week's Grammy Awards and President Obama's State of the Union Address have in common?

    They're a lot like autoerotic asphyxia, only not as much fun?

  • ||

    that's funperiod, not funquestion-mark.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Music went to shit in the early 2000s. Coincidentally I turned 25 then.

  • Counterfly Guard||

    To me, that's when decent music started being made again. The '90s was some grunge-y boring garbage plus the nascence of big-business backed pop.

    Probably ten of my favorite albums have come out in the last 5 years, and if you disagree it's only because you have terrible taste in music.

  • sarcasmic||

    Don't diss on Garbage!

  • kinnath||

    One of my favorite moments of the 90's was when my tween niece looked at me and said "You like Garbage ?!?!?". I think I ruined the group for her that day.

  • sarcasmic||

    That's funny.

  • kinnath||

    I told here that I thought Garbage was a wonderful blend of 60's melodies and GenX anxieties. It was like explaining calculus to a puppy ;-)

  • Ken Shultz||

    Woof!

  • ||

    are you a bear?

  • Mensan||

    That reminds me of a conversation I had with my 13-years younger stepsister when I mentioned that Dave Grohl is a much better drummer than guitar player:

    "When was he a drummer?"

    'Yeah, in Nirvana.'

    "Who's Nirvana?"

  • Guy Laguy||

    Taylor Hawkins is a better drummer than Dave Grohl.

  • Mensan||

    And Chris Shiflett is a better guitarist. But I might be biased from years as a NUFAN fan.

  • Lady Bertrum||

    Taylor Swift is a better drummer than Dave Grohl.

  • Counterfly Guard||

    Well I did say grunge-y.

  • ||

    Music went to shit in the early 2000s. Coincidentally I turned 25 then

    Now I'm old, hell, I'm well past 25.

  • juris imprudent||

    Coincidentally I turned 25 then.

    Competing for that Ezra Klein demographic?

  • Ted S.||

    Music went to shit when Josquin des Prez died.

  • Virginian||

    Fuck them. Seriously. I'm almost 24. My peers are literally retarded, especially those with degrees. They are Obamabots, or at least 70% of them are. I'm not talking voting Democrat, I'm talking a slavish devotion to the guy, genuine faith in his intelligence and character which is bizarre considering he has demonstrated that he lacks both.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    "It's not about you, Jayne. It's about what they need."

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    The "Hero of Canton" he is not...

  • mad libertarian guy||

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I think that's the point -- Jayne was the opposite of a hero, but the mudders needed a hero so they made him one.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Except Jayne actually did something that helped people (even if it was by accident)

  • John Galt||

    Jayne says "I'm done with Sergio."

  • wareagle||

    and I am willing to wager that not a one can give a substantive fact-based explanation when challenged on an Obama lie, policy prescription, etc.

  • Virginian||

    Nope. They're sons of Mary, every single one of them. One of my jobs (yay Obamacare!) the girl that comes in after I leave is constantly late. So I give notice up the chain that she's tardy. Boss counsels her. Girl comes up to me

    "I don't know why you ratted me out"
    "Excuse me?"
    "Just because I'm a little late sometimes."
    "No, you're ten minutes late 75% of the time, tracked over a 2 month period. 6 of 8 shifts, you were at least ten minutes late for. The other you were two minutes late for. Once, only once, were you the five minutes early you are supposed to be."

    So she flies off the handle. Apparently I only care about her being late because she's a lesbian. This is not at all atypical among people my age. I hear it at least once a month during arguments or conflicts. They have internalized the race/class/gender trump cards to a truly alarming degree.

  • Not a Libertarian||

    I am curious to hear tell of a less than punctual lesbian.

  • ||

    It's not hard to understand. Not only does she take forever to get ready in the morning, like every woman, she also has to help another one out.

  • T||

    The idea that her being late screws you is never even considered, is it?

  • Virginian||

    Of course not. I'm not saying my generation is particularly self-centered in this way, but I think back in the day someone who was constantly tardy for work would have a litany of excuses and stories. Car trouble, overslept, bus was late, line at the bank, etc.

    She's just like "I'm late, I don't care if that makes you work extra, and if you care it's because you're a white male bigot."

  • Metazoan||

    It's probably that future time orientation or something. It's racist.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Unfortunately, attributing evil motives to anyone who criticizes you is also a perennial thing among immature people.

  • Metazoan||

    True, but as one of the "millenials," I think that the "never criticize little bobby, he's perfect" trend probably doesn't help. I'm very happy that my parents were willing to, for instance, have a talk with *me* instead of the principal if I got a bad grade.

  • Randian||

    No kidding. Ask me sometime about my days doing employment law and how many people automatically assumed because they were old/young/black/white/gay/straight/male/female that meant they had an automatic cause of action against their employer.

    It was not limited to young people. Not even close.

  • The Heresiarch||

    True dat. I currently do plaintiff's employment law and turn down 99% of potentials. My mantra: "It is not (yet) illegal for your boss to be a jerk in California."

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Yes, key word "yet".

  • Hyperion||

    Well, you just said she's a lesbian. Which means she's also a woman. That's a double helpin of entitled right there.

    IOW, she wouldn't be late if you weren't oppressing her. It's your fault.

  • mr lizard||

    Nothing pisses off flaky people people like presenting them with hard numbers. Although your data compilation makes it seem really creepy and OCD outside of this forum. But I would've loved to have seen an excel graph with 2 weeks of data complete with time stamped cell phone shots of her coming in the door. Go big player or go home

  • Almanian!||

    nice

  • ||

    A friend of mine is taking a series of time-stamped photos of his coworker asleep at his desk. It was funny at first, but there are sooooooo many photos. I wish I could get that much sleep.

  • Loki||

    But I would've loved to have seen an excel graph with 2 weeks of data complete with time stamped cell phone shots of her coming in the door. Go big player or go home

    ...and then get arrested for "staulking", fired for "discrimination", etc.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Unless you're in a union. Then you just say it was for recruitment purposes and TADA, it's OK!

  • Brutus||

    I worked at a GM assembly plant where the skilled trades routinely spent the day in slumberland. After 9-11, one tool maker had a picture of himself snoring away with the caption, "Head of Al-Qaeda Sleeper Cell."

  • LTC(ret) John||

    "staulking"

    Stalking with a caulk gun?!

  • Gene||

    Big giggles, +1 tube of Mono white.

  • mad libertarian guy||

    Listen, bitch. I couldn't care less that you chow box. It really isn't any of my concern. But if said box chowing is in any way the cause of your fucking tardiness, you're goddamn right that I'm pissed off at you being a lesbian.

  • T o n y||

    Not one that will fit inside the FOX News bubble.

  • Mike M.||

    This is nothing new at all. Young people have ALWAYS been stupid!

    The good news is that half of the youth (or a little more) eventually grow up, mature, and come to realize how ignorant they were.

    The bad news is that about half of them never grow up at all. These are the Barack Obamas of America.

  • Zombie Jimbo||

    Can we get a bigger war to kill off the stupid half, please?

  • crashland||

    The stupid half aren't in the army.

  • Emily||

    If you're a guy, will you marry me? If you're not, can we be best friends? Just wondering.

  • Virginian||

    As a noted yokelcosmotarian, I can only be gay married to my guns next to a border fence, with the food at the reception provided by food trucks only.

  • Counterfly Guard||

    There's plenty of great and protesty music being made right now. It just ain't big business.

    And I would hazard that today's retard youth love them some Ke$ha for the same reason that yesteryear's retard youth loved them some Bob Dylan: pee drinking and image.

  • sarcasmic||

    I'm glad to have two decent college radio stations in the area. Mainstream music sucks.

  • SugarFree||

    You are doubly lucky. Most college radio stations switched to world music and "alternative rap" when indie music broke big in the early 90s.

  • sarcasmic||

    Oh, they play their fair share of that crap. Depends on the day.

  • SugarFree||

    Just linked to the live stream of our campus radio station. They are playing some sort of trumpet and harmonica driven psychobilly/death metal hybrid. Sound like two rusted out backhoes trying to fuck each other. And not in a good way.

  • sarcasmic||

    I just turned to one and it's some dude giving a talk about something I could care less about.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    SugarFree| 2.18.13 @ 12:31PM

    Thank you. I needed that - one of the funniest things I have read in some time. I shall be chortling everytime I think of "psychobilly/death metal hybrid" or "two rusted out backhoes trying to fuck each other."

  • SugarFree||

    "two rusted out backhoes trying to fuck each other."

    The phrase originated back in 1997 when I was trying to describe the sound a friend of mine was making while throwing up. It was amazing. I don't think he ever drank kamikaze shots ever again.

  • ||

    We spent an awful lot of time requesting Mmm Bop from our campus radio station. They were all devoted to "good" music and it was fun watching their souls die the death of a thousand cuts.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    You are devious and cruel.... I like that. Carry on.

  • JW||

    This is why I abandoned radio for XM. It's not perfect, but WAY better than the *cough* free product.

  • SugarFree||

    I tried to like Sirius/XM, but I found myself only listening to 5 stations and constantly flipping among them to find something. Meh. I'd rather listen to my phone playlists.

  • ||

    I only use my phone, but when I've had rental cars with Sirius/XM I've totally been like "OMG A SIXTIES STATION STFU--AND IT'S RIGHT NEXT TO THE FIFTIES STATION" and then my boyfriend tries to jump out of the moving vehicle.

    "AND THE EIGHTIES STATION JUST TWO SLOTS AWAY!"

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    How's this for an idea, listen to the world around you.

    Speaking of how awful the new generation is, they always have earphones in their ears while they're walking, running, driving, etc. Even more ironic since constant listening to music is sucking up energy and killing Gaia in the process.

  • ||

    How's this for an idea, listen to the world around you.

    First no thanks for your prize, and now you want me to be suicidal too. And you like "Tears in Heaven," which has traumatized me every time I've heard it since my mom told me when I was too young what it was about.

  • ||

    I like to listen to it on repeat while I'm watching Old Yeller. When it becomes too much I stop and read a chapter of Charlotte's Web.

  • Enough About Palin||

    After that, I would need a big helping of Untamed Heart.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I'm not convinced that prize was not just a way to show off your talents, rather than as a symbol of the love and appreciation I deserve.

  • ||

    What prize could I give you
    Without the same defect?
    A cookie would but prove
    The giver can confect.

  • In Time Of War||

    No offense, but "Tears in Heaven" has gargled my balls since the moment it was released. I'm sorry his kid died, I really am, but fuck, he didn't have to take his sorrow out on the rest of humanity.

  • Loki||

    How's this for an idea, listen to the world around you.

    What if the world around isn't worth listening to? Have you overheard a conversation between two or more people recently? It's like something out of Idiocracy.

  • Randian||

    It's like something out of Idiocracy.

    URGE TO KILL RISING

  • John Galt||

    Ow! My Balls!

  • Enough About Palin||

    What if the reason Gaia evolved man into his current, Gaia-killing state is because Gaia is trying to commit suicide?

  • JW||

    I tend to do that as well. Some days they play decent stuff for a while, other days, I just bail immediately.

  • Brutus||

    You can't go wrong with the Sinatra station or Real Jazz.

  • Metazoan||

    Well, as a lover of fairly esoteric music (ambient space), I do like that college stations play weird stuff sometimes.

  • Ted S.||

    When I was in college in the early 90s I referred to "indpendent music" as "failure music" because the minute any of the acts became commercially succesful, the original fans would complain the act was selling out.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    I always thought "independent" music was referred to as "underground" because someone aught to bury it.

  • robc||

    I first hear the term Selloutica when they released "... And Justice For All."

  • Killazontherun||

    If the only music Dylan wrote was that protest crap from the early 60's, he would not be worth remembering. Fortunately, he hit the acid and got a great band to back him.

  • sarcasmic||

    The only songs of his that I like were played by someone else.

  • Killazontherun||

    Sure, he couldn't harmonize jacking off dicks in the middle of a jerk circle, but that is almost, if not entirely irrelevant.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz652bW-nLE

  • Sam Grove||

    Good thing he took voice training.

  • Broseph of Invention||

    Steely Dan?

  • Almanian!||

    Dylan - what a piece of shit. 50, 60 years at it and he STILL can't sing or play harmonica.

    At least some of his songs are good - the ones other people recorded...

  • Almanian!||

    ...and NOW I read sarc's comment. Sorry bruh. What he said...

  • sarcasmic||

    Some things are worth repeating ;-)

  • Brutus||

    Frank Zappa's song "Flakes" has a great takedown of Dylan.

  • Gene||

    California has the most of them.

  • T||

    Now that I have a kid, I can finally grow irate about people mortagaging his future for their short-term gain.

    Don't get me wrong, I was mad at them for this shit before, but now it's personal.

  • Slammer||

    RIP Jerry Buss

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    Well poop. RIP Dr. Buss. You were one of the best team owners in professional sports.

  • Ted S.||

    All those bandwagon fans are in mourning.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    Until you realize that the older generation is scamming you

    Specifically, SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

    Yet "free stuff" is the excuse among the ill-informed (meaning insurer supplied birth control pills).

    They are trying to distract you, Young America, by telling us you just want "free stuff". It is their fault, not yours.

  • Randian||

    You just make shit up.

  • sarcasmic||

    clip != magazine

    tard

  • Randian||

    Call your mom and have her kiss your bruised ego, little one.

  • sarcasmic||

    You said I made your iggy list.
    If that had been true then you would not have responded. You have shown yourself to be dishonest as well as ignorant.
    Not that that is surprising. Ignorance and dishonesty go together like chocolate and peanut butter.

  • Randian||

    I changed computers and forgot to add you back.

    Oh well.

    If you can cite one example where I said a clip and a magazine are the same thing, I'll buy you dinner.

    You can't, and I'm confident my wallet will remain in my pocket.

    Because you lie.

  • sarcasmic||

    I fart in your general direction.

  • SugarFree||

    You both suck. Everyone knows they should be referred to by the industry standard term "Bullet wallets."

  • Randian||

    Peace in our time!

  • Almanian!||

    The new term is "Assault Clipazine", SF.

  • SugarFree||

    The new term is "Assault Clipazine", SF.

    Are you serious? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

  • H. Reardon||

    Hope I die before I get old.

  • Brett L||

    Too late, Daltry.

  • Almanian!||

    Yeah - Moon sends his regards to Pete and Roger.

  • wareagle||

    actually had a discussion (argument?) with a proponent of the minimum wage hike who actually believes that nothing else will happen. Add nearly two bucks to the minimum and a vacuum will ensue where no one's behavior changes, where nothing else is affected. Earliest in the day I have been inspired to drink in a long time.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Well, studies show that small increases in the minimum wage tend not to have much effect on unemployment. Laying off large numbers of people or hiring less people is not good for business, since you originally hired those people for a reason.

  • wareagle||

    does 7.25 to 9 count as a "small increase?"

  • Not a Libertarian||

    That's what she said!

  • Almanian!||

    +1.75

  • Adam330||

    20% is not "small." When labor costs go up by 20%, it suddenly becomes attractive to start looking for alternatives, like using machines or using smaller numbers of more skilled workers, that you originally didn't adopt because of the expense.

    And there are about 2 studies finding that small increases don't affect unemployment, and hundreds of others saying otherwise. The largest effects are found on the young.

  • Metazoan||

    Agree.

    haha, maybe it's a make-work program for industrial engineers, then?

  • JW||

    "Congratulations, unskilled worker. Now that you make more, you have to demonstrate greater value to me. Good luck with that."

  • Hyperion||

    When labor costs go up by 20%, it suddenly becomes attractive necessary, to raise the price of your products or services.

  • Guy Laguy||

    Or you know, reduce the exorbiant profit to just above reasonable.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Ah, yes, because small business owners are just drowning in Ferraris and gold bars. Seriously, look at the amount of profit most small businesses make. It's not much. Then look at the small amount of the profits that DOESN'T get re-invested back into their business (i.e. the part they actually keep for themselves) and you'll see an even tinier amount. Most employers are not multi-millionares living off the back of the poor.

    Even if you took the pay of the top 3 CEOs in America and divided their pay among all of their employees, the difference in the employee's paycheck would be negligible.

  • Hyperion||

    Yep, as a small business owner, I am quite familiar with this. There is only so much you can pay employees before the cost of your product reaches a level that you have priced yourself out of the market.

    A big business might be able to only make 2 cents on the dollar for a while and still remain in business. Especially with all the special crony treatment they receive. But a small business will not make it.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Don't you know that you should be poor and that you keeping even a dime of money made from the sweat of poor people is evil and vile and morally reprehensible? You should be ashamed for wanting to make more than 2 cents profit. /sarc

  • Enough About Palin||

    "Even if you took the pay of the top 3 CEOs in America and divided their pay among all of their employees, the difference in the employee's paycheck would be negligible."

    Im not certain this is true. I had a boss who made $12M one year. He oversaw 6,000 employees. If he gave his entire earnings that year to his employees, they'd all get $2K. That's not negligible. Of course I'd have punch the guy in the throat had he suggested acquiescing to such communist bullshit.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Yeah, that's kind of a loaded comparison. Top CEOs are going to come from the companies with the largest number of employees as well as the largest number of subordinate executives.

    A better comparison would be dividing all the executives in a company's salaries.

  • ||

    "Or you know, reduce the exorbiant profit to just above reasonable."

    Ah yes, the liberal's take on things. How much money does a guy need! How big does a house have to be!

    Okay, tough Guy, define 'reasonable?' These sort of comments make me tear the remaining hairs on my head.

    Stop reading the Naomi Klein's of this world and come into the real world.

    SMALL BUSINESS are not licenses to print money despite what liberal children think. If they do, it takes years of dedication and managing salaries and debts before you actually see any real successes.

    Asshole.

    We're not driving Ferrari's. I started a business three years ago and pay myself $38 000.I don't spend frivolously and constantly make sure my business is run correctly AS I SEE FIT.

    I expect it to go up but if you think it'll be an amount you deem too high and therefore game for tax to support bull shit liberal ideals then you're dumber than a sack of dead squirrels.

    When you tax us you stagnate the whole damn cycle.

    The pressure I have to pay in terms of taxes is retarded. Most of us who get into business want to be independent and we face the wrong headedness of public policy more than most people who sleep in and complain.

    Now go back to sleep, Guy.

  • Harun||

    One day, when you finally sell your company for your big payday, you will hit the 1% for just one year of your life.

    This is why the constant idiocy about the 1% is quite evil. Its not people consistently making 1 million bucks a year. Oh some maybe, but the vast majority are people getting one time pay-days.

    Too many government employees think that everyone is just like them with a super steady paycheck...ummmm, no.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Not by as much as you raise the wage for minwage emps.

    The people who lose money on SMALL minwage increases are the rich and middle class. Which is not too bad since the rich make shitloads of money off inflation.

  • Mickey Rat||

    Because small increases in the minimum wage are not that different from actual wage floor set by the market, a higher rate would. It also ignores the issue on whether the government has any business setting these kind of price controls.

  • Brandybuck||

    Most minimum wage increases have been to bump the minimum wage up to the general market rate for unskilled labor. This hardly affects the unemployment rate. The biggest group hurt are teens with no prior job experience, and they don't get counted in the unemployment stats anyway.

    This current proposal is a pretty bug jump though, but I still won't predict what the effect on unemployment will be because I don't know what the going rate for unskilled labor is.

  • CatoTheElder||

    Yeah, that's why there's always a helpful attendant at the filling station who checks the air pressure and cleans the windshield while he's filling the gas tank.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    Perhaps in Oregon.

  • ||

    We forced my college roommate from Portland to pump gas on a road trip up the CA coast. When he went home, he automatically got out to start filling his tank and got screamed at for trying to take the attendant's job.

    But it's for "safety" reasons.

  • Brandybuck||

    I was driving through Oregon when they had a referendum to allow self-service. All these old ladies were calling into a talk show saying how dangerous it would be. The talk show host said "No problem, we know how stupid California drivers are, if they can pump gas without blowing themselves up I think we can too.

  • Generic Stranger||

    I moved from Nevada to Oregon, and that was probably the hardest thing to adjust to. Took me a couple months before I stopped almost getting out of the car when I pulled up to a pump.

  • Generic Stranger||

    Actually, scratch that. That was the second hardest thing to adjust to.

    I miss not having to worry about my guns rusting.

  • Virginian||

    I love this state.Big-money trap shoots, high-stakes craps, more puss than you have time to even look at, and no open-road speed limits day or night. Best goddamned use for a desert I've ever seen./blockquote
  • Generic Stranger||

    Nevada's had open road speed limits since before I was born. I think they started that back when the USDOT was strong-arming states into 55 speed limits. Luckily, they moved the limits back up to 70 and 75 after that nonsense ended. They couldn't pull you over for not wearing a seatbelt until the year after I moved away, though.

  • Whahappan?||

    I suspect that's because many times the minimum wage is at or below the naturally occurring minimum wage.

  • Rasilio||

    It is not just the size of the expansion that matters, but how large the expansion is relative to wages being paid in the market.

    See, a couple of years back when they raised it from $5.25 to $7.25 it didn't matter very much because there were VERY few jobs in the country still paying $5.25, even high school kids working at McDonalds were generally making in the $7.25 range before the increase.

    However Since the rise to $7.25 was so recent huge numbers of low wage jobs are at or near that level and would be impacted by a rise to $9 and it is likely that there would be an immediate impact in terms of either higher unemployment or price increases in those industries that typically employ minimum wage workers.

  • H. Reardon||

    I want it. I want it. I want it.

  • Almanian!||

    Ya CAAAAAAAAAAN'T HAVE it.

  • mr lizard||

    Some of us Gen X are still pissed off 20 years later. Except now we know exactly why.

  • ||

    +1 Douglas Coupland

  • Government Hack||

    So...what do we do? I'm under 30, but fuck my peers. Most of them are absurdly and uncritically liberal. They only complain about government when it's not liberal enough.

    I went to college in NYC, at the ultra-mega-liberal-overrated fuck fest known as NYU, and I laugh when I visit my uni friends who still reside in the city. They live in cramped apartments and work horrible jobs, all the while continuing to vote for liberals because they can't see any connection between their sad state of affairs and statist policies.

    But if these people won't change their vote when their lives are already this poor, is there any hope for our youth? Or are their votes entrenched and we'll have to deal with a generation of idiots who think rational political discourse consists only of pointing out alleged inconsistencies in someone's behavior?

  • wareagle||

    they can't see any connection between their sad state of affairs and statist policies.

    as damning an indictment for the failure of schools to instill or promote critical thinking skills among their subjects as there is. And, it pretty much answers the questions that follow in the next paragraph.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Everybody fucking blames the schools for this. Where the hell are the parents? Did no one know how to think critically before 1900?

  • wareagle||

    critical thinking stopped as the Boomers became the folks in charge. Yes, the parents deserve some blame but it was with their blessing that the "everyone gets a trophy" mentality was allowed to become institutionalized.

  • ||

    The parents of the boomers knew the war was lost. In a manner of speaking. We have to clean up their mess.

  • mr lizard||

    Come to Texas or Florida. If you have any kind of skill go to Houston. If you are in the electrical engineering, IT, or programming disciplines then you can make do in Florida. Just don't pay attention to the salaries.

  • T||

    No. Stay out of Houston. The economy here is turrible. I hear Dallas, Austin, and San Antonio are doing much better.

    Yes, I'm kidding. I just want fewer people clogging up the freeway, so if you move down here, walk to work.

  • Brett L||

    I just want fewer people clogging up the freeway,

    You think the other 9M people don't?

  • T||

    I'm not concerned with the desires and wants of the proles, Brett.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    +1 Top Hat to you, good sir!

  • ||

    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible."

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Houston/NO has roughly the worst climate I've ever experienced. I say that as someone who grew up in Rockford and spent years in Buffalo.

  • grey||

    Houston summers are one step up the staircase from hell itself.

  • Brandybuck||

    I've seen Houston mosquitoes actually carry off small infants left unattended.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Walking home today I saw a hawk snatch up a squirrel right before my eyes. Very disturbing experience. Almost as bad as the time this groundhog with flies buzzing all around it walked right up to me, laid down not an inch in front of my feet and died. I'm assuming it was blind and had lost its sense of smell.

    Schenley Park is giving me nightmares, dude.

  • Brandybuck||

    As a software engineer, I used to worry about my career prospects as I got older. What if I got laid off when I as 60? Who would hire a 60 year old C++ developer when you can hire twenty bearded and pierced web "developers" for the same price? And looking at the state of mobile apps, there's plenty of evidence to back this paranoia up.

    But then I think about all the utterly unemployable kids the colleges are cranking out, and realize the only thing I have to worry about in my old age are roving gangs of unemployed grads.

  • Government Hack||

    Yeah, I'm an underemployed graduate who bought the lie that if I just got a "good education" in the liberal arts the job would come to me. What a steaming mound of opprobrium.

    Whenever I reflect on how much I was duped by the current system, my inner state vacillates between outrage and depression.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    This might be harsh, but it sounds like you were duped into believing something you wanted to believe. It's not like the information wasn't out there for you to discover the dupage.

  • Government Hack||

    Nah, not harsh.

    What you've said is certainly possible, and I've certainly lived in self-reinforcing denial in other situations, but I don't know if this was one of those cases.

    In my situation, basically all the authorities I (used to?) trust said it would all work out, both conservative and liberal. I didn't look at other sources because I didn't think there was anything to be worried about.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Those authorities were trying to get an annoying person asking questions off their backs, most likely. But you already know this, most likely.

  • Virginian||

    Whenever I get pissed about working several jobs to make ends meet, I realize I have no student loan debt, which makes me better off then many my age.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    You won't feel very good when they forgive the student loan debt.

  • Virginian||

    They won't do that. You don't give the pig the carrot, you dangle it in front of him and lead him with it. If they forgave the debt, some would leave the plantation. But if they continuously talk about forgiving the debt, most will stay and keep voting D.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    They're gonna forgive all student loan debt on 12/20/2021. I know this because the expected payoff date on my student loan is 12/19/2021.

  • SIV||

    "No, no fries. Are onion rings the same price?"

  • Brandybuck||

    I'm actually a liberal arts major. Am now a senior software engineer. It was tough getting in the door, but once here no one cares about your education anymore... unless of course you're a Third World Oppressed Peoples Study major. Then you're fucked.

  • Rasilio||

    Actually it matters a little, generally the degree helps get your resume past the idiot HR guy but outside of that you are correct, the actual technical leads and architects don't give a damn where or even if you went to school, they want to know if you know the dangers of a recursive function and how and when to use one

  • LibertyHight||

    I'm a CTO and I told my Dir HR not to even look at degrees as a qualifying part of sending a resume on to me...unless it's a Degree in Call of Duty. Then it's an automatic hire fore them!
    Give me a smart person that can learn and I can get productive work out of them.

  • silent v||

    your future looks a lot less promising than that of fun. (who were also named Best New Artist last week)

    Given the Grammy's track record at picking Best New Artists, fun might not have a very bright future after all.

  • robc||

    Homer: Lisa, did you see the Grammys?

    Lisa: You beat Dexy's Midnight Runners.

    Homer: Well, you haven't heard the last of them.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    When everything you ever needed was magically provided by your parents, and you have no experience of seeing what they do to earn the money necessary to do this, it's only "logical" to assume that the government should magically provide everything that people in society need, with money brought in by unseen and possibly unpleasant methods you don't have to worry about. Hence the unique susceptibility of youth to fascism and socialism.

    After you've been out working on your own in the world, you understand. But I fear a lot of our current graduates may not have that experience for a long time.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Channel your inner Johnny Rotten, [or] your future looks a lot less promising than that of fun. (who were also named Best New Artist last week) and a lot more like that of defrocked Grammy winners Milli Vanilli."

    Even going back before the '50s, the important thing happening in American music was always about authenticity. Going from country and folk to blues and...hell, even when Disco showed up, there was the sense that it was the authentically funky music black people were dancing to at the time. When things--like disco--lost any sense of authenticity, they got dropped like they had herpes. Punk rock displaced disco because punk was seen as authentic. Hair bands were supplanted by grunge because hair bands were seen as inauthentic...

    Kids today seem to have completely bucked that authenticity tradition. They don't seem to care whether something's fake. They certainly don't seem to care whether Obama is lying to them. They didn't care when he took their cars away via cash for clunkers. They didn't care when he forced them to buy healthcare--because he knew they mostly wouldn't use it. Pointing out that it was all fake would have been enough in the past.

    It's a crisis of aesthetics we're facing with the Facebook generation. How do you reach people with the authentic truth when they don't really care about authenticity? How do you reason with a generation that doesn't care about the truth of something--only whether it's well "liked"?

    NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!

  • Randian||

    Whenever anyone says "kids today..." I know to immediately ignore everything they have to say.

    I grow extraordinarily tired of fact-free generational stereotyping and pontificating. No, you have no understanding of the Zeitgeist of a particular arbitrary age group, now please stop trying to peddle me snake oil.

  • T||

    Kids today don't like Randian, so they do have that going for them.

  • sarcasmic||

    Kids today don't like Randian

    No one does.

  • Hyperion||

    You can't dislike someone just cause they're part of a fanatical hummus cult.

    Also, friend chicken. Mondays suck.

  • Randian||

    *shrug*

    I really don't get what anybody derives from sociological prognostications. As far as I am concerned, saying things like "kids these days...it's the schools! it's the government! back in my day..." deserves as much consideration as reading burning chicken bones or tea leaves.

    These opinions are worth absolutely nothing.

  • wareagle||

    These opinions are worth absolutely nothing.

    why, because you disagree with them? Society changes over time; it's not something new. That you may not fall into what Nick describes is a credit to you and your upbringing, but even you can point to peers who fit what was described.

    The older generation has bitched about the younger for as long as the older has lived long enough to do it. The bitching often contains a few grains of truth.

  • Randian||

    I can point to anyone of any "generation" to "fit" what is described.

    If you make general observations about the human condition, you can find plenty of examples of any "thesis", especially in an information-heavy era.

  • wareagle||

    every generality is grounded in some truth. Your not fitting into the mold described does not make the mold illegitimate.

  • Randian||

    The bitching often contains a few grains of truth.

    you know why people use the word 'grain' instead of "acres"?

    Because a grain is really fucking small.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    For those of us who are interested in gaining knowledge of a phenomenon rather than sitting on the sidelines saying "nuh-uh", something containing grains of truth is worth considering.

  • Randian||

    If you're interested in gaining wisdom, point to the grains without turning them into whole fields of shitty crops.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I like it when people yank out that famous quote from Socrates about the depravity of the youth of his time... and then I ask them what happened to Athens a few decades later.

  • Randian||

    Correlation does not equal causation.

    Passing off cynicism for wisdom is the touchstone of the pseudointellectual.

    Generational stereotyping and misandry qualify. There are others.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Of course correlation is not causation, but if your #1 example against bitching about youth is correlated with the downfall of society when the younger generation takes over, that says something.

  • wareagle||

    good grief, randian. This is not about you personally, but you always take this subject in that manner. I have kids in what I believe is your age group. They work and are self-supporting as are their friends. Doesn't mean they don't know a fair amount of slackers and jackoffs who think they are owed something by the rest of us.

  • Randian||

    Doesn't mean they don't know a fair amount of slackers and jackoffs who think they are owed something by the rest of us.

    I say again - there are "slackers and jackoffs" in every single "generation" (generation being an arbitrary label we slap on people born within a range of years). Offering this as a novel observation about the current "generation" is shopworn at best.

  • wareagle||

    I say again - there are "slackers and jackoffs" in every single "generation" (generation being an arbitrary label we slap on people born within a range of years). Offering this as a novel observation about the current "generation" is shopworn at best.

    and no one is offering it as "novel" anything beyond as something that is not hard to spot. The current generation of yoots has some differences from its predecessors. They are evident, no matter how much you wish to pretend they are not. Your continued protestations make it seem as if there is a more personal angle than originally thought.

  • JW||

    Passing off cynicism for wisdom is the touchstone of the pseudointellectual.

    What does it say about OCD pedantry?

  • Randian||

    Ask half of this board about that.

  • sarcasmic||

    you know why people use the word 'grain' instead of "acres"?

    A 'grain' is also a seed. Do you know what seeds do? They grow. Idiot.

  • ||

    That has nothing to do with the use of the word "grain" in the saying. It refers to the amount of truth in a statement.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Kids these days like to argue over the meanings of words.

  • LTC(ret) John||

    The value of a thing, is what that thing will bring.

  • Ken Shultz||

    I'm talking about aesthetics, but it isn't fact free.

    There are things that are more true about certain generations, and this one really does seem to have dropped authenticity as a major component of its aesthetic sensibilities.

    Facebook is a great example--it really tapped into this generation's sense of what's important. The important thing being whether something "liked" by other people?

    As different as the kids of the '50s were from Gen X, they shared that sense of loving what was authentic. I'm trying to imagine this generation going nuts over something raw like this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeZHB3ozglQ

    ...going nuts because it's raw and authentic--and I'm having a real hard time imagining that. This generation seems to be missing the authenticity gene, and that's something that's been a hallmark of American aesthetic sensibilities since country, blues and jazz recordings were first made.

    Surely, there's something to the idea that people who aren't impressed by authenticity in music are harder to impress with authenticity generally--in the political sphere and elsewhere, too.

  • Randian||

    Facebook is a great example--it really tapped into this generation's sense of what's important. The important thing being whether something "liked" by other people?

    No, it's not. You're just making things up.

    I'm trying to imagine this generation going nuts over something raw like this...

    Like something garnering 100 million hits on YouTube?

    All you are doing is generating some arbitrary value ("authenticity") without defining it and then pointing to one thing to "prove" that the current "generation" lacks that "value".

    This is ex rectum. It's on the the level of alchemy and pig intestines.

  • ||

    Plus, there are many, many other voices out there saying that kids these days care sooooooooooooo much about authenticity. Go read something about social media marketing. Just about anything you read will include words like, "Be authentic! Millennials can tell if you're not, and they don't like it!"

    Someone out there thinks interacting on Facebook is authentic, while you (Ken, not Randian) see it as the opposite. You realize a ton of "hipster" type culture is about authenticity, too, right? That, in fact, sites like this obsess about authenticity, though often buried beneath a veneer of irony that many hipsters themselves recognize as a terrible barrier between themselves and "authenticity."

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    But is it real authenticity or fake authenticity?

    "Be authentic! Millennials can tell if you're not, and they don't like it!"

    This is Generation Obama we're talking about. They can't tell if people are authentic. They think they can, just like every cohort of 20-somethings of the past, but they can't.

  • ||

    Yeah, but this is about cultural narrative, not math. If they think it's authentic, it is, because "authentic" doesn't mean all that much.

    I mean, it's not like a lot of people aren't authentically vapid and retarded anyway. It's what makes it a silly thing to argue about.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "You realize a ton of "hipster" type culture is about authenticity, too, right?"

    If one subgroup of people is differentiating themselves from the rest of the crowd, then isn't that like the exception that proves the rule? If they're differentiating themselves by embracing authenticity, then what does that say about the crowd they're differentiating themselves from?

    I'm talking about things that seem to be changing with an entire generation of people, here. I know there are exceptions. And speaking of the general crowd as a group, authenticity doesn't seem to be as important as it used to be...in the 1920s, the 1930s, the 1940s, the 1950s, the 1960s, the 1980s, the 1990s. ...which doesn't mean there weren't people who didn't care much about authenticity then, too.

    In my peer group, the nastiest thing you could call someone was a "poser". It seems to me that's been turned completely on its head--generally speaking--in this generation. It also seems to me that people who aren't as concerned about authenticity might be less susceptible to the arguments we make questioning things like Obama's integrity and whether he's being fake.

    I don't know why that should be controversial. There must be some explanation for this generation's support of Obama's bullshit other than, "Well, I guess Obama's policies are what's best for the future of America, and the kids today are just smarter than the rest of us about that."

  • ||

    I know there are exceptions. And speaking of the general crowd as a group, authenticity doesn't seem to be as important as it used to be...

    I get it. I just think generalizations like this are far too easily subject to all kinds of biases and far too hard to measure with any objectivity, to the point of pointlessness. I have no idea whether, on average, "authenticity" was more or less important at any given point in time, and I'd be extremely skeptical of claims in either direction. The whole thing is a giant pile of squish.

    In my peer group, the nastiest thing you could call someone was a "poser". It seems to me that's been turned completely on its head--generally speaking--in this generation.

    This is a somewhat interesting point. Being called a poseur is still a huge insult, but at the same time, you put your ironic hat on and say "everyone is a poseur, because authenticity is a myth, authenticity is a pose, and the way to be authentic is to admit to and embrace poseurdom." This is what hipster irony is like, all about.

    There must be some explanation for this generation's support of Obama's bullshit other than, "Well, I guess Obama's policies are what's best for the future of America, and the kids today are just smarter than the rest of us about that."

    Retardation? I mean...it's not like I think these people are right. But they can be authentically wrong, no?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    There must be some explanation for this generation's support of Obama's bullshit other than, "Well, I guess Obama's policies are what's best for the future of America, and the kids today are just smarter than the rest of us about that."

    Young people have always been more susceptible to Great Stories of Great Men doing Great Things, especially when this is imbued with the ideals of Hope and Change and Newness. Being part of "historic" events.

    My generation had the Berlin wall falling down and the dawn of the Internet -- these kids have the first half-black scumbag instead of a white scumbag to live in the White House as their moment in history.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "Being called a poseur is still a huge insult"

    Only a poser would spell it like that, Nicole!

  • Ken Shultz||

    "You're just making things up."

    Being "liked" is so important to the Facebook generation. It's important for them to let their "friends" know what they "like", but it's even more important for them to know what their "friends" "like".

    "Like something garnering 100 million hits on YouTube?"

    The Bo Diddly one I linked? Has just over 200,000 hits on YouTube.

    Are you suggesting some significant portion of those hits may have been generated by people under the age of 25?

    "All you are doing is generating some arbitrary value ("authenticity") without defining it and then pointing to one thing to "prove" that the current "generation" lacks that "value"."

    I've actually defined it pretty well. In the past, music was on the upswing when it was seen as authentic and went on a downswing when it was seen as fake.

    I've mentioned that in regards to country, blues, disco, punk rock, grunge, and hair bands. Show me a time when those styles were on the upswing, and I'll show you a time when those styles were considered authentic--by the audiences that were consuming them. Show me a time when they were on the downswing, and I'll show you a time when they started to be considered inauthentic.

    It's been that way going back to the 1920s.

  • Randian||

    The Bo Diddly one I linked? Has just over 200,000 hits on YouTube.

    So? That's insufficient evidence to your point.

    My point was that things that get 100,000,000 hits can be the most authentic things there are. Think about Charlie and his biting mouth. That's straight out of suburbia. A panda sneezing? That's raw footage right there.

  • ||

    Am I the only one that found Charlie disquieting? British children make everything scarier, and now they're eating people.

  • Randian||

    Being "liked" is so important to the Facebook generation. It's important for them to let their "friends" know what they "like", but it's even more important for them to know what their "friends" "like".

    People are social animals.

    News at 11.

  • Ken Shultz||

    They're in danger of losing their authentic selves.

    Makes me wonder sometimes if they'd even know what they "liked" if they hadn't had someone else to tell them.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVcM79U46z8

    Conformity is an authoritarian impulse. Hell, conformity of "likes" is what life in North Korea is all about.

    Knowing what you yourself want (fuck what everybody else likes) may be the root of all libertarianism.

  • The Heresiarch||

    Ex (or, rather, e) recto.

  • PD Quig||

    This thread is cold dead, but it is still worth crying out to the void that you, Randian, are an obtuse twat. As if the human mind and senses were not designed specifically to categorize and process data in order to organize the overwhelming stimuli presented by the world. Why are you are so tweaked by the idea of employing a stereotype? Like every other human--and most animals--we take in raw information and discard all but an infinitesimal amount of it as useless. On the other hand, while some generalizations will necessarily be flawed, they will also keep you from dying an early death in many cases. Walk down a street in South Central LA at 3 AM? Generally, the folks you encounter are not looking out for you. Are all inner city blacks dangerous? Of course not, but we play the odds all the time for good reason.

    Can 'kids these days' be categorized? Of course they can. What good would it be to perform an analysis that required a data acquisition scheme that polled every individual in a generation before arriving at important conclusions? Will there be outliers? Of course. You could have saved yourself a lot of writing and just made a Kumbaya point that "each one of us is precious and unique." Instead, you ranted on about how generalizations are worthless and reveal a weak intellect--when in reality you have merely revealed that you lack a basic understanding of the way we have successfully categorized and processed information for a million years or so.

    Twit.

  • sarcasmic||

    Stereotypes, however offensive they may be to thin-skinned pussies like Randian, would not exist if they did not contain at least a grain of truth.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    That's uncalled for, sarc.

  • sarcasmic||

    No it wasn't.

  • crashland||

    The indoctrination of kids that began years ago is finally paying off... Today's 20 somethings were yesterday's elementary kids learning that everybody is a winner and gets a ribbon. That indoctrination is affecting their outlook on the world and what they believe that world owes them.

    Sure stereotyping and pontificating gets tiresome but it ain't always wrong.

    GET THE FUCK OFF OF MY LAWN NOW

  • DrAwkward||

    Tell us about that, grandpa Carolla...

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Whenever anyone says "kids today..." I know to immediately ignore everything they have to say.

    They say the biggest obstacle to wisdom is not ignorance but the delusion of knowledge. Congrats on wrapping both of them up into one statement.

  • Randian||

    Do you think making broad-brush stereotyping pontifications is "wisdom"?

    Because I think it's horribly collectivist and fact-free.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    No, but it may be useful to developing wisdom.

  • Randian||

    I don't see any here at the moment.

    Bootstrapping an argument about a generation over the Song of the Year is really weak when that song falls pretty well within the tradition of other SOYs:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....f_the_Year

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Notice how the quality goes to shit after 2001. I haven't even heard of most of them.

  • Randian||

    You think something like "Tears In Heaven" is better than something like "Rehab"?

    Come on.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Of course. You can't do a Mr Bean parody of "Tears in Heaven"

  • ||

    If I'd ever heard a single Amy Winehouse song I might be able to judge.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    oh I see that's a different song. The proliferation of songs about rehab is another sign of what's wrong with this generation. ;)

  • Randian||

    Amy Winehouse is (was?) good.

  • BakedPenguin||

    She was talented. I'm not a fan of R&B, blues, or jazz, but I was impressed with her album.

  • Red Rocks Rockin||

    You think something like "Tears In Heaven" is better than something like "Rehab"?

    You think "Rehab" is quality? The only thing that song was good for was foreshadowing Winehouse's Darwin Award.

  • sarcasmic||

    I found this little nugget in the preface to "Economics in One Lesson"

    "The notion that we can dismiss the views of all previous thinkers surely leaves no basis for the hope that our own work will prove of any value to others."
    -Morris R. Cohen

    Make of that whatever you will.

  • ||

    Nice.

  • Brandybuck||

    Hipsters are all into authenticity. They crave authenticity. Which is why they love to frequent authentic taquerias in the Mission District that sell almond chicken pesto burritos and wash them down with authentic organic blackberry horchata.

  • itsnotmeitsyou||

    Ken, I want to come sit on your front porch with you and yell at whippersnappers. Maybe I'll bring over my shotgun and lay it across my lap for fun.

  • Mensan||

    So, they're metarebels? They're rebelling against rebellion? Like an army of anti-Caulfields?

  • Outlaw||

    Fuck you, gramps. I care. I'm gonna set your lawn on fire.

  • Not a Libertarian||

    I kinda/sorta like the fun. songs that have made commercial radio airplay, but I must say that I had pause when I only latterly saw one of their videos with the group in all its hipster glory.

    But back somewhat to Gillespie's thesis, the lead singer of fun. is now 30 years old as he announced in his acceptance speech for New Artists. As one might say that the pro big government inclinations that the young possess are just that, "errors" of the young. But is there a doubt that, as example, the fun. singer is as likely politically left now as he was a decade ago or that he will be a decade hence.

    It is a truism that the young (and especially college educated) align on the left and may move to the center as they grow older.

    But is this the first generation that never does that? They will eventually outnumber all the rest of us, as the WWII and the Boomers fade.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Not a libertarian,

    But is this the first generation that never does that? They will eventually outnumber all the rest of us, as the WWII and the Boomers fade.


    Not after the Great Default. Many of them will turn full-fledged fascist then. Many others will turn total communist, but many others that will receive (not if) some influence from us libertarians will see things as they are and realize the utter waste of time
    and resources generated from flawed ideas. We simply need to keep at it, because the socialists will eventually run out of excuses.

  • Virginian||

    We simply need to keep at it, because the socialists will eventually run out of excuses.

    _____

    That's the one thing they never run out of. At some point, the wealthy capitalist will be the guy who has a chicken coop out behind his hut, and who can only toil half the day in the fields because the other half of the day he's trading eggs to other people. And then a community organizer will kill his chickens and feed the people the delicious meat. Because it isn't fair that the fat 1% only has to toil half the day in the fields just because he built a coop and found chickens to raise.

    Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
    This is known as "bad luck."-RAH

  • DarrenM||

    We simply need to keep at it, because the socialists will eventually run out of excuses.

    The old socialists die off and the new ones recycle the same excuses thinking they are new.

  • H. Reardon||

    fun.? Never heard of them. Until today.

  • sarcasmic||

    You've probably heard the song. It's difficult to avoid.

  • H. Reardon||

    I will have to make a point of subjecting myself to it to remind me of why I avoid listening to pop music.

    My boys are to young to have an opinion of their own on music, but it's soon to change. I'm doing my darnedest to turn them against the mainstream music. My four-year old can pick out a Black Keys song in the first bar.

  • sarcasmic||

    I'll give the song credit for being catchy. Other than that it sucks. Like donkey dick style sucks.

  • H. Reardon||

    Which is kind of funny since the Black Keys played at the Grammys. But hey man, I liked them before they were cool.

  • Not a Libertarian||

    But I'll bet by the second or third bar, your kid is lights-out.

    #ThisIsWhyYouCantTake4YearOldsClubbing

  • H. Reardon||

    He's in training. You should see him chug chocolate milk.

  • kinnath||

    I managed to avoid it until 11:40 this a.m.

  • crashland||

    Not with satellite radio and mp3 players. I've happily never heard of any of this shit.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I just pulled it up on YT, and yes, I have heard pieces of it unintentionally. I thought it was called "Tonight" because they shout that word the loudest.

    Not bad but I'm still taking Tears From Heaven and Kiss from a Rose over it.

  • Rhywun||

    I clicked the link above - I think I've heard this in a couple commercials. I guess that makes it Grammy material.

  • kinnath||

    What a terrible song to make "song of the year".

  • Counterfly Guard||

    Shine on you crazy diamond.

  • crashland||

    One of these days, I'm going to cut you into little pieces

  • eyeroller||

    This is a depressing article, but I fear that it's accurate. It reminds me of a Mencken quote about licking the butcher behind the ear.

  • BigT||

    Liberty means self-reliance, it means resolution, it means enterprise, it means the capacity for doing without. The free man is one who has won a small and precarious territory from the great mob of his inferiors, and is prepared and ready to defend it and make it support him. All around him are enemies, and where he stands there is no friend. He can hope for little help from other men of his own kind, for they have battles of their own to fight. He has made of himself a sort of god in his little world, and he must face the responsibilities of a god, and the dreadful loneliness. Has Homo boobiens any talent for this magnificent self-reliance? He has the same talent for it that he has for writing symphonies in the manner of Ludwig van Beethoven, no less and no more. That is to say, he has no talent whatsoever, nor even any understanding that such a talent exists. Liberty is unfathomable to him. He can no more comprehend it than he can comprehend honour. What he mistakes for it, nine times out of ten, is simply the banal right to empty hallelujahs upon his oppressors. He is an ox whose last proud, defiant gesture is to lick the butcher behind the ear.”

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I'm licking Menken less and less the more you guys quote him.

    I thought individualism didn't require solitariness.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Apparently I only care about her being late because she's a lesbian.

    Well, duh.

  • AlmightyJB||

    Someday we'll all be singing along to retro 60's and 70's TV commercials. "In the Valley...".

  • OldMexican||

    the massive levels of sustained debt the U.S. has racked up over the past decade may substantially reduce economic growth by something like 24 percent over the next twenty years or more.


    Yes, generational theft. Coupled with the dumbing down effect from the Amerikan Pulbic Skool Seistem Dat Teeches Kidz To Reed n Wrait, lousy and cheesy music and stupid (to the point of being lurid) television, and you know that the old generation is fattening the kids up to be broiled in the oven, like so many modern Hansels and Gretels.

    "They promised us Jet Packs, Kitty!!!!"

  • Randian||

    oh look here are some more made up "observations"

  • kinnath||

    Don't worry, in thirty years you'll get to make disparaging remarks about the youth too.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I don't think Randian is part of the generation in question. IIRC he's been to college, law school, and served in IRQ.

  • Randian||

    The members of fun are my age.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    You forgot the period -- hipster cred REVOKED.

  • kinnath||

    Well, the song still sucks, but I won't blame you for it.

  • Randian||

    The dude is dating Lena Dunham. Think about what that says about his taste.

  • T||

    I think that means he's either gay or a masochist. Maybe both.

  • Loki||

    You know what they say: "Birds of a feather are hipster retard Obama-fluffer douche rockets together."

  • JW||

    The dude is dating Lena Dunham.

    One does not simply date Lena Dunham.

  • SugarFree||

    "Well, you really can't have sex with an elephant, you can really only have sex at an elephant."

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Randian,

    oh look here are some more made up "observations"


    Your answer reminds me of those students that taunt others for being the teacher's pet or too smart. Brought me memories...

  • Randian||

    So making things up is sort of within your historical bailiwick then?

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Randian,

    So making things up is sort of within your historical bailiwick then?


    I understand that for the uninitiated and the limited, rational though seems foreign and strange, making you react to it in such a juvenile way.

  • Randian||

    "juvenile" thinking consists entirely of taking one or two limited data points and extrapolating them irresponsibly into "knowledge"

    It's the most basic kind of thinking error that exists.

  • H. Reardon||

    Randian - are you and under 30 Obama fellator? Is this why you're so offended? Because you so perfectly fit the 'stereotype'?

  • Randian||

    No, it "offends" me because it demonstrates a total lack of critical thinking skills. Navel-gazing about "generations" is lazy lazy lazy, and I hate lazy thinking more than anything else.

  • ||

    I think he found out two months ago that Santa isn't real and his rage boner for older people hasn't faded yet. He's overreacting to that long con by lashing out at every reasonable statement.

  • Randian||

    Wow. 180 degrees from correct.

    I have seen some wrong statements about me, but this is a prize winner.

  • Loki||

    Wow. 180 degrees from correct.

    Which part? Do you think Santa still exists? Or is the part about the rage boner that's "180 degrees from correct"?

  • ||

    Wasn't it not too long ago that Reason was telling us the young of today were the most libertarian they'd ever been? When did that turn into them being the more unlibertarian than before?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Maybe Nick is going through andropause and the accompanying mood swings. I can only imagine how bad hot flashes would be when you're in a leather jacket.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: darius404,

    Wasn't it not too long ago that Reason was telling us the young of today were the most libertarian they'd ever been?


    That doesn't mean that there are more libertarians than socialists. It only means that there's steady progress.

    Wait after the Great Default, when the geezers will find out the true depth of their stupidity, the dimension of their error in trusting the givernment's promises. After that, the government will finally have no way to continue the racket and then you will see the surge of the young. I am preparing my kid for that.

  • ||

    Most of our generation is largely apathetic. A big deal is made of how many voted for Obama but the fact of the matter is a plurality didn't vote at all and a majority didn't vote for him. Even among the liberal leaning people I know most are worrying getting or keeping their job instead of obsessing over politics.

    I find it humorous to see some of the older generation commenters worrying that our generation will be the downfall of society. Have we not been on this path for decades? Which generations built the government we have? Who raised this new generation?

  • sarcasmic||

    Fucking Boomers.

  • Virginian||

    Eh, the Boomers didn't create Social Security. Basically it all comes back to Wilson, Hoover, and FDR.

  • sarcasmic||

    They did not create Social Security, but they are the ones who expanded it to cover most anyone with an imaginative social worker.

  • Virginian||

    An excellent point. If Social Security was today what it was created as, you'd have to be in your 80s before you could collect it.

  • wareagle||

    exactly. Few folks want to remember than when enacted, eligibility for SS was actually older than life expectancy.

  • Killazontherun||

    Which generations built the government we have? Who raised this new generation?

    We know we dicked you, what we don't understand is, why are you taking it so well?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Kids these days refuse to take responsibility and always pass the blame on to someone else. Maybe you should take responsibility for destroying society like my generation did.

  • T||

    Have we not been on this path for decades? Which generations built the government we have? Who raised this new generation?

    I've been voting for losing candidates for years now, so I didn't build the government. And I just started on raising a proper libertarian, so ask me about that in another 17 years.

  • sarcasmic||

    I can accurately predict the results of an election by taking the inverse of my ballot.

  • ||

    Well and that's the point. Most young people didn't vote for the winning candidate either.

  • T||

    Most people don't vote. It would be nice if the .gov respected that and left most of us alone.

  • sarcasmic||

    You can ignore government, but that doesn't mean it will ignore you back.

  • Ken Shultz||

    "I find it humorous to see some of the older generation commenters worrying that our generation will be the downfall of society. Have we not been on this path for decades?"

    In the past, people moaned about how the kids were going to be the downfall of society becasue they were so rebellious.

    Worrying about the future becasue the kids don't care about how much and how often they're shit on--in fact, they kind of like to get shit on?

    That's kinda new.

    Here in this country, anyway. There have been times in other countries when the kids were so thoroughly invested in the government that they'd actually turn their own parents in to the police.

  • ||

    It's a shame that Randian's socialist identification with his age cohort is making him so mad. If only he'd embrace individualism and worry about this own self worth none of this would be happening.

  • Randian||

    Huh?

    It's a shame that Randian's socialist identification with his age cohort is making him so mad.

    That isn't what's making me mad. Fact-free and wholly made-up observations (like yours, for example) make me mad because they're fucking made up.

  • ||

    I think it's pretty funny that everyone else is presumptively collectivizing you with the wrong generation, Randian.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I didn't. Where's my prize?

  • ||

    Tulpa did not collectivize
    And just for that he wants a prize?
    Doing right its own reward
    Should be. But if it's not
    Enjoy this the week's
    First poem. Your
    Very own
    Nonnet
    -Me

  • Almanian!||

    Fokin' POETRY, man.

  • ||

    What generation is Randian a part of? I'm part of the gen that's actually being discussed btw (I'm 24, due for 25 in a month).

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    What's a young whippersnapper like you doing arguing with strangers on the Internet? You should be out playing hackeysack or whatever. (on someone else's lawn)

  • Randian||

    What generation is Randian a part of? I'm part of the gen that's actually being discussed btw (I'm 24, due for 25 in a month).

    Nobody knows because it's a made-up thing.

    Also, experiences with age vary wildly within just a few years. For example: a 32-year-old probably did not have Facebook in college, whereas a 29-year-old probably did.

    An 18-year-old today may not be on Twitter, whereas a 14-year-old almost certainly is.

    This "generational" model was never worth much anyway, and it's getting more worthless by the day.

  • ||

    I just meant I'm in the general age range that is being referred to, and was curious. I agree that the generational model is flawed, and probably holds less than it used to. I don't think it's useless though. But I also don't think we should attempt to peg our estimations of societal change solely on age-based observations.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    That just means we need to refine the mesh, not that the entire concept is useless.

    We generalize about centuries and milennia in the past.

  • Killazontherun||

    Jules Michelet would be posting here if he were alive today.

  • ||

    Thanks for the reference.

  • T||

    In part because the pace of technological change was so slow, Tulpy. If you were a peasant in the 3rd Dynasty in Ancient Egypt your life was not noticeably different from that of a peasant in the 23rd dynasty, even though almost 2 millenia seperated your existences.

  • ||

    Is that what you think we're doing?

  • BigT||

    1961 - Early retirement at age 62 for men was permitted. Payroll taxes were 6%.

    1972 - Automatic cost-of-living-adjustments (COLAs), which index benefits to inflation, were introduced. The formula to calculate increases initially overstated inflation by 25%, and people born between 1910 and 1916 received an unintended windfall. Payroll taxes were 9.2%.

    1977 - The mistake in the benefit formula was corrected. The "notch" refers to the difference in benefits paid to the group that received the windfall and those who retired following the formula correction. Social Security was thought to be actuarially sound. Payroll taxes were 9.9%.

    Apparently being of age when these corrections occurred is blame for expansion in Sarcasmic's eyes. Most of his posts are links to the Daily Mail Online. He is living proof of the hypothesis of this article.

  • ||

    Sarcasmic is 40ish.

  • Homple||

    Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure you will) but the changes in Social Security you mention were made through laws passed by Congress and signed by the President. Damn few baby boomers were federal legislators or president from 1961 to 1977 so the boomers had little to do with causing your butt hurt.

    I know, I know voters. So how significant was the boomer vote in 1961, or even 1972?

    Eh?

  • Vernon||

    like Francisco explained I'm shocked that a single mom can earn $4886 in four weeks on the internet. did you look at this web link http://www.fb26.com

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I had no idea anonbot had become such a traditionalist.

  • Almanian!||

    What do you expect from a Bot from this generation?

  • SugarFree||

    I just want someone to explain Alabama Shakes, or Medea Starts a Band.

  • H. Reardon||

    I kinda like AS for the little that I've listened to them. They surely aren't gaining any claim to fame on the beauty of their lead singer, so they must have some talent that attracts a fan base.

  • SugarFree||

    I'm just kind of burned out on the whole roots rock revival. We are reaping the whirlwind that Jack White sowed.

  • Killazontherun||

    We are one Ry Cooder career revival album away from sliding into the Abyss. The soundtrack to Crossroads II.

  • ||

    I've always had tons of respect for Ry's ability to play slide. I've known a tons of guitarists but very few good slide players. But I didn't grow up in the south.

  • Almanian!||

    Joe Perry, Johnny Winter, Bonny Raitt and others would like a word with you...

  • H. Reardon||

    Burned out on the roots rock revival? I didn't know that the genre was so saturated. Thank you, Jack White, for inspiring the making of music that doesn't completely suck.

  • Randian||

    Burned out on the roots rock revival? I didn't know that the genre was so saturated.

    Are you kidding me? Your local "indie" station is wall-to-wall with it. It inspires segments on NPR, for goodness sake.

  • H. Reardon||

    Perhaps I should listen to more broadcast radio. There must be more new music out there that I may enjoy than I know of.

  • SugarFree||

    Just me personally. I've always preferred that my blues rock weigh heavier on the rock side of the tetter-totter.

  • sarcasmic||

    White people have no business playing the blues.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcr8dm9Prkk

  • H. Reardon||

    Can't view YT right now, but a can respond with this: Shut your mouth!

  • sarcasmic||

    White people have no business playing the blues ever, at all, under any circumstances. Ever, ever, ever. What the fuck to white people have to be blue about? "Banana Republic ran out of khakis"?

    White people ought to understand it's their job to *give* people the blues, not to get them. And certainly not to sing or play them. I'll give you a little tip about the blues, folks: it's not enough to know which notes to play. You need to know why they need to be played.

    --George Carlin
  • Almanian!||

    Yeah, Eric Clapton sucks at playing the Blues, cause WHITE.

    Shut up, George! You're dead!

  • BakedPenguin||

    "Smokin' on the night train, chewing on a jelly roll..."

  • Killazontherun||

    Music in white honkytonks and black club shacks from Alabama to Texas in the 20's and 30's played pretty much the same style of music. Both came to be commonly called 'blue' music meaning 'dirty' music. Later on, different styles emerged accentuating different mannerisms.

  • JW||

    We are reaping the whirlwind that Jack White sowed.

    I hated Jack White before it was cool to hate him.

    I really, really, really never understood what people saw in his work.

  • sarcasmic||

    I didn't really have an opinion of him until I saw It Might Get Loud.

  • Randian||

    I don't get it either. People paid more than 50 bucks to see him in town this year. Why?

  • Guy Laguy||

    You're probably sick of Dave Grohl's shit too

  • JW||

    He's an excellent beer and men's razors jingle writer.

  • sarcasmic||

    Grohl has to be one of the single most talented musicians ever.

    I want to like his music, but I just can't do it. I can appreciate the talent required to play it, but I just can't push myself into liking it.

  • ||

    Christ. I hated The Black Crowes enough back when they still called themselves The Black Crowes.

  • ||

    They were hard to handle, weren't they?

  • SugarFree||

    They reminded everyone of why they hated The Doors so much.

  • JeremyR||

    There are people who hate the Doors?

  • ||

    YESANOWYESANOW

    Or whatever the fuck that greasy prick said. Fuck him. I hope he's dead by now.

  • ||

    You just inspired me to look him up and, while he's not, I did miss his divorce from Kate Hudson, so at least there's that.

  • H. Reardon||

    Perhaps you'd like the music he released while he was married. I liked the BCs, but that shit was awful.

  • H. Reardon||

    Nicole, if I saw you dying of thirst, I wouldn't give you a sip of Ke$ha's pee.

  • sarcasmic||

    I hated them for the same reason I hate Muse. Except that unlike the Black Crowes I like some of Muse's songs.

  • ||

    I like the song Muse became famous for (Knights of Cedonia), but when I went back and listened to the other stuff on their album a second time, it sounded like crap. Knights still sounds good though.

  • sarcasmic||

    Muse has a few good singles. But yeah, as far as I can tell the rest of their albums are filler.

  • RPR2||

    kids, don't trust anyone over or under 30. they're idiots.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    Randian occasionally feels compelled to let us know how much our intellectual indolence and general feeblemindedness make his butt hurt.

    It's what gets him through the day.

  • sarcasmic||

    That's a lie! You're making stuff up!

    /Randian

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Says the reply button nonconformist.

  • Guy Laguy||

    How dare someone like something you don't!

  • Almanian!||

    My two fave observations about THESE KIDS AND THEIR MUSIC, first-person edition:

    1) Love the role reversal when I'm yelling at my kids for "that pussy fucking girl music"

    2) My kids yell at ME for the music being too loud (none of them owns so much as a boom box - earbuds and no fidelity for all!)

    3) They constantly borrow my CD's to download to their iPods cause Motley Crue, Jane's Addiction, The Who and Zeppelin...."are....really GOOD."

    Last - a basked in the warmth of the entire family sitting enraptured watching "The Who Live at Leeds" a month or so ago. That concert always reminds why I loved the Who so much back in the day. No one compared to them live - just raw fucking SMASH MY GUITAR AND BLOW UP MY DRUMS awesomeness!

  • ||

    The amazing part of this story is how they are borrowing your CDs instead of just torrenting it.

  • Killazontherun||

    Around 2000 I realized what a different world we're in when I wanted to hear a particular tune, it occurred to me, I could either get up, go to the other side of the room, dig out the CD, put it in the box, or I could down load it and listen to it in less than a minute.

  • Almanian!||

    I still don't have the ability to download any music. And don't have an iPod or similar device.

    I know, lawns, telling others to get off of it, etc.

  • db||

    Generally I only DL music if I know it's going to be a one-off. Otherwise I buy CDs and rip them that way I have a high quality bacmup.

  • NihilistZerO||

    Hope UR using FLAC

  • EDG reppin' LBC||

    White Lung. The kids today are crazy!

  • Voros McCracken||

    I think Stanhope covered this already.

  • Fool||

    As a current college student, I can attest that we're delusional like all hell. Admittedly, I'm in nj, and I was raised in a nice suburb, so my peer group may be more of a bubble than normal, but it's pretty bad.

  • ||

    I remember reading Johnny Tremain (published 1943) as a kid, there was an introduction some get off my lawn old man complaining about how kids these days are all lazy and immoral and should be more like this fictionalized kid.

    Later, when I was music school, in the late 80s, I had an old jazz teach say, when you get old don't be like all these guys my age and whine, 'nothing can compare to jazz, man, my generation perfected music'.

    This has been going on forever, but that doesn't mean that generations can't get more lazy, shallow and self-absorbed on average as their culture and society goes into decline. American culture and society is definitely in decline in my view.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Just remember in the winter, far beneath the bitter snow...

  • ||

    Bitter is a euphemism for yellow, right?

  • T||

    Taste it and see!

  • ||

    I'm always careful to watch out where the huskies go...

  • db||

    +1 Circular Motion

  • Voros McCracken||

    Bon Jovi reached it's pinnacle when I was in High School: so no my generation did not perfect music...

  • Brandybuck||

    Jeebus Cripes Nick, when did you become an old person?

  • juris imprudent||

    Now you know the secret of The Jacket - Nick is actually 537 years old.

  • The Late P Brooks||

    What the fuck is that supposed to be a picture of, up there?

    It's got legs like an NFL placekicker, and that's not a compliment.

  • db||

    Careful what you say about it. That massive brain case screams "long range telepath."

  • grey||

    Me and all my friends
    We're all misunderstood
    They say we stand for nothing and
    There's no way we ever could

    Now we see everything that's going wrong
    With the world and those who lead it
    We just feel like we don't have the means
    To rise above and beat it

    So we keep waiting
    Waiting on the world to change
    We keep on waiting
    Waiting on the world to change

    Yes, they are whipped. Just keep waiting kids, we'll have spent all your earnings and the whole fucking thing will collapse into your unwilling hands. I know, I know, but it FELT SO GOOD to vote for Obama.

  • ||

    We just feel like we don't have the means
    To rise above and beat it

    They were twice convicted of theft in Saudi Arabia?

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    That song sounds like something Offspring would have made back in the 90s if they didn't know how to play any instruments.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I mean seriously, how does it take four guys to make that song? The one guy is doing a capella most of the song.

  • grey||

    All I know is when I heard that on the radio I thought a generation was doomed. Then Obama came and I knew a generation was doomed. We will pass debts from old to young and the young will wonder if they deserve the molestation. I don't put much weight into the 'the kids today..', but we're passing onto our youth a much more socialist society with less opportunity and they do need to skip quickly from the liberalism that typically pervades youth into the conservatism that often comes with life experience. Otherwise, what is going to follow Obama?

    Under socialism waiting for change, means waiting for more generational theft, more regulations, fewer civil liberties, and less opportunity.

  • DrAwkward||

    Ben Folds is producing the best music of his career, but he's old like me and rarely gets played anywhere.

  • Almanian!||

    My daughter (25) loves him

  • ||

    it's easy to look back and cherry pick and claim that MY generation had the kick-ass antiestablishment protest music and the current generation has a bunch of mealy mouthed crap, but even Woodstock had bands like sha na na. it wasn't all jimi hendrix

    there was a time when captain and tenille was ripping through the top-40 charts and (hint hint) it might be around the time when gillespie trots out the who.

    award shows are rarely going to feature the cutting edge and the rabble rousing anti-establishment types, but they are just as much out there now as they were then. and with the intertoobs and home recording (i use reaper for my home recording. it's awesome. way better than my 4 track i had in college, and it's free), anybody can produce and get it out there. i've heard some really inventive awesome stuff from "nobody's" who in a prior generation wouldn't even have an outlet to be heard except maybe college radio at 2 in the morning with a weak-ass signal.

    gillespie might want to remember one of the most popular songs of 2011 was about a kid with homicidal thoughts, and his troubled ways... pumped up kicks was originally recorded as a demo, iirc it was one of those one dood did like all the instruments thang, and even released as a free demo on the intertoobs.

  • Almanian!||

    Pumped Up Kicks is a good tune, but when my band plays it, it's going to sound like Metallica did it. Which is how I wish it had sounded in the first place.

    But it's a good song...

  • NihilistZerO||

    "...it's going to sound like Metallica did it."

    I hope you mean Pre-Black Album Metallica. Current LuLu Metallica is laughably, HORRIBLY bad :-)

  • Sam Grove||

    Yet if a New York Times story that came out the same day as the Grammys is to be trusted, the kids today support the personification of wet blanket government – Barack Obama – far more than any other age range and the under-30 crowd is the only group who ardently believes government “should do more to solve problems.”

    That's the kind of thing that happens to people who listen, wide eyed, to their teacher.

  • Not a Libertarian||

    Why would _anyone_ over the age of 12 be impressed that the Burger King corporate website was hacked to spout pro-McDonald quotes?

    Yet Anonymous (or an "Anonymous" twitter) seems to be if not trumpeting the fact, at least is happily relating it.

    And #LulzSec is claiming responsibility.

    http://www.latimes.com/feature.....1159.story

  • db||

    Would they think to hack Mayor Bloomberg's website to promote Mickey D's? Until they do that they're pikers.

  • Mensan||

    I'm in my mid thirties, but I didn't go to college full-time until after I did a couple enlistments in the Army. I spent years almost entirely surrounded by the subjects of this article. I don't recall ever being as vacuous, weak-willed, and conformist as most of the millennial generation.

    I think part of the difference is that in generation X we grew up at the peak of the latchkey kid trend. Rather than helicopter parents, we had phantom parents. Instead of being smothered, we were, to a degree, left to fend for ourselves. At least that was my experience.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Oh lord, I'd forgotten about the "latch key kid" menace. Always nice to recall 1980s/90s moral panics.

  • Voros McCracken||

  • Mensan||

    I've made my own meals, washed my own laundry, and determined my own bedtime since I was 10-years old. I don't see that as a bad thing.

  • Hyperion||

    That put you, at 10, way ahead of most 30 somethings these days.

    I remember a conversation not so long ago with a female co-worker who was complaining about her daughter.

    The daughter is in her late 20s, and at least, does not still live at home. However, the mom still pays her phone bill, car insurance, and numerous other things.

    But what she was complaining about is that her daughter comes over several times a week to bring her laundry for mom to do, because she doesn't know how to do laundry.

    I asked why don't you show her how, it's not exactly rocket science, and stop doing it, instead of complaining? She just stared at me for a moment, like that thought never crossed her mind.

  • ||

    Oh god, you've met my mom! I was doing laundry at 8, my sister has done laundry once in her life as far as I can tell.

  • Hyperion||

    I've been doing it since I was a little kid, also, that and cooking too.

  • ||

    I asked my sister (same one who doesn't do laundry) to try something I was cooking when we were in HS. She tasted it and asked me who had made it. Confused I said "I did" to which she replied "you know how to cook!?" I'd been preparing most of our dinners for about 3 years.

    I'm a little concerned by how few of my friends know how to prepare a simple meal.

  • Hyperion||

    They actually used to teach cooking to girls, when I was in high school. True story.

    I think that class has now been replaced with 'How to get a free abortion - 101'

    I learned how to cook watching my grandmother, and just took it from there.

    All of the men in my family are good cooks, my dad, all my brothers, and my son. Matter of fact, besides my wife, I don't think any of the women in the family can cook as well as the men.

    But I've given up on ever being as good as my wife at cooking, she's a master of the art.

  • BigT||

    Anyone who can read can cook. There are books...

  • ||

    Anyone who can read can cook. There are books...

    That's true. Ikea furniture also comes with instructions. That didn't stop my ex from turning one of my shelving units into a work of modern art.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    They actually used to teach cooking to girls, when I was in high school. True story.

    Absolutely. Home ec and typing class were the best place to get a head start towards first base. Sure beats spending quality time with the band saw every day in shop.

  • Marla Singer||

    My high school required all students, male and female, to take one year of home ec (basic cooking and nutrition, plus sewing) *and* one year of wood shop. But then, we were known to be very backwards.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Freshman year everybody had to take one quarter of home ec, shop, music, and art. The next year you got to choose what you would take; I was forced by my parents to take only one semester of shop and typing for the other semester, which I hated since it was considered a class for girls. (I didn't yet understand the strategery mentioned above)

    Years later it turned out to be an absolute necessity for my work, so I don't complain about it anymore.

  • db||

    Yeah, I was reminded of that too. What's ridiculous is when I was in elementary school, all the PSAs about latchkey kids had the weird effect of making me afraid of them. In today's world it's practically child abuse. What a ridiculous thing. For centuries, kids were trusted not only with their own lives but given aerious responsibilities. Nowadays it seems the goal is to keep them as dependent as possible as long as possible. I have a buddy in his 50s, two of his three kids live at home--one has a decent job, the other not so much, but as far as I can see,neither seems at all interested in forging a new life for themselves.his othe son's in the Army Reserve right now and probably will end up living elsewhere permanently

  • Hyperion||

    We used to have chores when I was a kid.

    The pay, was not getting your ass beat, for not doing them.

  • Randian||

    I think children should have chores, but that way is not the most effective way to enforce them.

  • Hyperion||

    It worked.

  • Hyperion||

    And we were hellions. We were not anything like the little snowflakes of today.

  • From the Tundra||

    You joke about the child abuse, but just try giving your kids freedom and responsibility sometime. Every fucking busybody in the world wants to tell you you are endangering your kid.

    My son, when he was 11, saved up his money and bought a small inflatable boat to fish on the lake by our house. My wife and I thought it was great - until none of his friends could go with him because their parents thought it was "too dangerous". I fucking learned to drive at that age!

    You are exactly right - kids without serious responsibilities (which, of course also develop self-confidence) will end up living with you forever.

  • Hyperion||

    I hear ya. I was driving trucks and tractors on my uncles farm, when I was 7. We worked in the fields, chopped firewood, went hunting and fishing, rode motor bikes.

  • db||

    My Mom was particularly protective of me until I was about 10 and showed I was responsible. I think her main concern was most of my neighborhood friends were reckless idiots. Even her level of concern and control back then would today be considered negligence.

  • Hyperion||

    I think her main concern was most of my neighborhood friends were reckless idiots

    That would describe about all of us when I was growing up, the boys that is. I think that we actually behaved in the ways that boys normally behave, belligerent, and full of piss and vinegar, I think that is the way my dad described it.

    There was not any sort of attempt back then to feminize boys, like there is today.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    I don't know that it's feminization, it's just trying to force everyone to fit into a school system that cares more about keeping the bureaucratic machinery turning and safe from external threats of lawsuits than it cares about the welfare of the children. Boys' natural misbehavior is just more problematic for such a school system than girls' natural misbehavior.

    Girls are probably warped by it too, it's just less obvious. Look at the girl who got her underwear searched or the girl who got suspended for pretending candy was marijuana.

  • Hyperion||

    Latch key kids was only one of the birth pangs of the super nanny state being born.

  • BuSab Agent||

    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

    -Robert A. Heinlein

  • OptimistCrank||

    Young folks may not feel so shafted after all. Consider:

    The minimum wage increase and statist economic solutions will continue to keep unemployment high among the young. Those who'd rather not work won't mind; those who want to work but can't find a job will either dangle on a parent's health coverage until 26, or qualify for Medicaid. They'll see their FREE healthcare, and thank the gov't for taking such good care of them.

    As to the young subsidizing the medical care of their elders, don't bet on it. The law makes it cheaper to forego health coverage and pay the penalty (if caught). One can always buy it (or apply for Medicaid) after getting sick - the insurer can't deny coverage. They will find that system quite workable (courtesy of the gov't), especially those who stay healthy.

    I believe the ACA has these inherent structural weaknesses by design. Costs will continue to climb, and eventually the populace will beg for a single-payer system. They will blame the private insurance industry for the failure.

    At some point the money will run out, but I suspect the outcry will not target the expanding scope of gov't programs. Instead they'll probably excoriate the rather minor restraint some belligerents demanded. We can see a preview in the clamoring that the gov't didn't spend nearly enough to fix everything for us.

  • Hyperion||

    Neither am I, a socon, but what you said sounds pretty accurate.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Oh please. I think your herpes rate is a bit high. So-called "illegitimacy" and divorce rates speak more to the poor fit between the illusion of monogamous permanent marriage and our modern society. As soon as divorce laws started to loosen in the 1970s, a lot of couples from the Greatest Generation took advantage of it to get out of dysfunctional marriages that never would have been initiated in the first place were it not for the power of tradition.

    Also, while I don't think the govt should force anyone to pay for anyone else's birth control, only a sociocon would conflate sexual libertinism with birth control. There are married monogamous couples that use birth control.

  • Stormy Dragon||

    Where’s the ire, the anger, and, most important of all, the symbolic middle finger to mom and dad that has long powered pop music and youth culture like Three Mile Island during a meltdown?

    What's the point of raging against your elders when they're of a generation that grew up on shocking irreverence. What's the point of flipping the bird at someone who thinks it's a hilarious joke and just laughs it off.

    No... they found a far more insidious way to rebel. They're rebelling by refusing to care. Like a slacker Howard Roark, they simply don't think of us. And the boomers are such egomaniacs, that this is driving them up the wall nuts.

  • Gladstone||

    Nothing says nonconformity and rebellion then doing what your parents did when they were your age!

  • Gladstone||

    Also says non-conformity and rebellion then doing what everyone else has been doing for 50 years.

  • Gladstone||

    "Also nothing says"

    In the interests of fairness nothing says non-conformity and rebellion then being even bigger statist fucks then your parents either.

  • Randian||

    Also says non-conformity and rebellion then doing what everyone else has been doing for 5000 years.

    Agreed.

  • Hyperion||

    If kids did the stuff that we did when I was a kid, the parents would have a fucking heart attack.

  • Gladstone||

    You mean the parents who told their parents to fuck off?

  • Hyperion||

    Yeah, the ones that were all rebellious until they had kids and then turned into statist assholes.

  • Gladstone||

    "Turned"?

  • Hyperion||

    Seriously, I know a couple of guys that were very libertarian leaning, until they had kids, now they are most super nanny state assholes you can imagine.

  • Hyperion||

    I have grown kids now. I was pretty overly protective of my daughter, but I never turned into a statist.

    In todays society, I would never even consider having children, for many reasons.

  • From the Tundra||

    I kind of get that, Hyperion, especially how fucked up things are now. I have to admit, though, it's kind of fun to raise kids (13 and 11) who are already demonstrating a healthy contempt for collectivism. As far as being overprotective of daughters, does teaching them to shoot count?

  • ||

    I was pretty overly protective of my daughter

    This is why there are no female libertarians!

  • Hyperion||

    You're still here, Nicole.

  • ||

    And my dad was totally overprotective, too.

  • Hyperion||

    See, so that doesn't always factor in. Although, come to think of it, I wasn't overprotective of my son, at all, and he's Libertarian. So maybe...

    My daughter just shows no interest in politics at all. I tried.

  • sarcasmic||

    Playing outside without direct supervision. Riding a bicycle without a helmet. Running.

    Life was so barbaric back then.

  • Almanian!||

    I'm 51 and I still have scars on my arms and legs from the violent bicycle (and other) crashes experienced in my misspent youth.

    Like fucking badges of HONOR now, and - like most people - I can still remember exactly what catastrophe created each one.

    I feel good knowing my kids all have theirs, as well - we certainly were not helicopters parents, so they've taken their share of lumps, and continue to be amazingly independent. Which we're proud of...

  • Hyperion||

    I'm 51 and I still have scars on my arms and legs from the violent bicycle (and other) crashes experienced in my misspent youth

    One of my most memorable ones, although there were many, is when we decided it would be a great idea to set up ramps and jump over the creek on our dirt bikes, like Evel Knievel, you know.

    I think I was probably around 10. It didn't turn out so good and I still have a noticeable scar on my knee from it, which came with many other scrapes and abrasions and a broken wrist.

  • sarcasmic||

    I've still got a scar on my chin from when I was learning to lock up the back tire and swing it out. I didn't lean in, and whacked my chin on the bumper of my mom's car. Blood all over the place. Good times. Good times.

  • sarcasmic||

    My daughter is three. While I want her to have a chance to learn from The School of Hard Knocks, I also don't want some case worker accompanied by a couple grumpy deputies knocking on my door because some concerned person dropped a dime after seeing a cut or bruise.

    I'm glad to say I was able to take her out sledding today. It's probably zero degrees out there with the wind, so I'm sure a concerned person would have called the cops had they seen us having fun, but luckily my backyard is out of view of any concerned persons.

  • Hyperion||

    This is just one of the MANY reasons why I would never have children today. Sad, but true. I'm too fucking old anyway, I mean who wants to be 70 and watching your kids graduate from high school.

    Guess wifey and I will have to serve our interests of being around rug rats, with grandchildren. My daughter is due in about 6 weeks.

    It's better that way too, so when you get bored with them after a couple hours, you just tell the parents to go home and take those brats with you.

  • From the Tundra||

    Don't worry. There are more of us out there all the time. I'm 45 and I have these discussions with the guys I grew up with all the time. We all have kids now and go out of our way to make sure that they are not gonna be "snowflakes".

    And besides, zero 'aint shit. You take her sledding when it's 25 below - then you'll be a bad ass.

  • sarcasmic||

    Doesn't get -25 round here, though that does remind me of the one snow-day I had in high school in the Colorado mountains. It wasn't because of the measly three feet of snow. The -30 temps caused the diesel in the school buses to turn to jello and they wouldn't start.

  • Hyperion||

    That's the one thing that turns me into the biggest wuss, is cold. I hate it. I will just stay inside if it's below 30.

  • From the Tundra||

    WTF? Bloodied and broken your entire life and now all it takes is a little less-than-warm weather to send you scampering inside?

    Say it ain't so, Hyperion

  • Hyperion||

    Sorry, man, it be true. I'm a southern boy at heart. I hate cold weather.

  • Hyperion||

    Besides, everything hurts worse when it's fucking cold! I got all banged and bloodied up in warm weather.

    I still remember the first time I played football in cold weather, with a frozen ball and went to catch a pass, and that damn frozen ball hit the tips of my fingers, ouch!

  • From the Tundra||

    Well, since we're doing this...

    Back in the dark ages, we played hockey outside. Really. Often times it was cold and our moms were not there with extra clothes and hot cocoa. Barbaric.

    Anyway, one of the most exquisite pains in my life was a hard shot off a frozen ankle. The skates were thin leather, jack-shit for padding. The best part was that the true pain didn't really start until you got the skate off and the foot thawed out.

    Good times!

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Riding a bicycle without a helmet is just stupid. You can still get the bumps, bruises and scars from doing stupid shit like I too did, without getting brain damage.

  • Not a Libertarian||

  • Sordid Business||

    I love it when people who know nothing about music write stuff about music.

    It is always so enlightening and insightful.

  • db||

    Yup. Enlightening and insightful seems to be your specialty.

  • SugarFree||

    I have it on good authority that your band sucks.

  • From the Tundra||

    I hated them before it was cool.

  • MissMalevolent||

    What do last week's Grammy Awards and President Obama's State of the Union Address have in common?

    Rank unchecked narcissism?

  • Rhywun||

    The Good Life

    Wasn't that "Good Neighbours" in the US? That's how I remember it. Anyway I watched it a lot - probably because we had exactly 4 channels to choose from.

  • Not a Libertarian||

    Yes, the series was called "The Good Neighbors" on PBS because there was an earlier seventies NBC sitcom with Larry Hagman and Hailey Mills also called the "Good Life".

  • lap83||

    'Where’s the ire, the anger, and, most important of all, the symbolic middle finger to mom and dad that has long powered pop music and youth culture like Three Mile Island during a meltdown? Was anyone surprised when a band member for fun. thanked his parents for letting him live at home "for a very long time"?'

    Why does the choice have to be between stupid 60s rebellion and stupid products of helicopter parents?

    They're both annoying in their unique ways. I'd rather listen to 60s music, but I hate the people of the 60s. They're now f'ing up my generation from the White House. Are they any better to us than their parents were to them? I highly doubt it.

  • buybuydandavis||

    It's funny.

    Sold into indentured servitude by vested interests of all stripes, they snuggle up to their chains and curse anyone who suggests they free themselves.

    "Children of the World Unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains!"

    Go away old man! How dare you suggest we stop paying for your debts, your pension, and your health care?

    The Chumpiest Generation.

  • ||

    No, no. They are the most useful generation.

  • XM||

    Make no mistake, these kids openly embrace the role of providers for the poor and the destitute. "We have to do more for the poor" is the type of response you find on online comment section when the topic of burden placed upon the youth is raised.

    As for the effect of the minimum wage, who are we kidding. Sure, some of these kids might get less part time jobs at the mall during summer break. But a lot of them will spend 4,8 years of their prime in college, where they'll enjoy the high life learning nothing. By the time they hit 26, a lot of the minimum wage jobs will be gone or taken by older immigrants. You need Spanish speakers in retail and fast food joints. Less jobs for that crowd.

    The youth are no more "natural libertarians" than Latinos are natural GOP constituents. Their adoration for Obama is really something to behold. And they have no appreciation for the classics. I was listening to Schubert one day and this kid came up to my window and said "why are you listening to that white man music"

    I made the last part up, but that's what the more derpier crowd could say.

  • ||

    "The youth are no more "natural libertarians" than Latinos are natural GOP constituents. Their adoration for Obama is really something to behold. And they have no appreciation for the classics. I was listening to Schubert one day and this kid came up to my window and said "why are you listening to that white man music"

    actually, you are not far off the mark. a mcdonald's in downtown seattle had problems with people hanging out in front of their store, dealing, pimpin', panhandlin', and just being a nuisance, so they started piping classical music through the speaker outside the store, which did a pretty good job of thinning the crowd.

    they were accused of "racism" for playing classical music, by "activists".

    amazing

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Pretty sure they could have achieved the same effect by mixing in traditional African music or native Latin American music. No way even the Latin gangs hang out listening to Kantu.

  • Calidissident||

    Young people today are far from a perfect bunch, but the demonization and holier-than-thou attitudes of older people here is a bit tiresome. Young people didn't put the country in the mess we're currently in. And say what you want, but young people were significantly more likely to vote for Ron Paul and/or Gary Johnson than middle aged and older people. Yes they're also more likely to support Obama and liberals, but let's not pretend the GOP is some great libertarian alternative that middle aged and elderly people can pride themselves on supporting

  • ThatSkepticGuy||

    Pander to Youth and they'll champion you even as you rob and rape them blind.

    Hitler knew this, Mao knew this, Castro knew this and the US Democratic Party knows it.

  • WenkDenk||

    Sometimes man, you jsut have to roll with the punches. Wow.

    www.AnonPlanet.da.bz

  • ||

    Orin Kerr at volokh.com cuts through the immense amount of bullshit, like the idea that aaron swartz was just prosecuted for violating TOS.

    note that kerr actually was involved in the lori drew case (on her side), a person who WAS prosecuted for violating TOS (or they tried to) a completely bogus prosecution. remember her, she was the one who pretended to be friends with the teenage girl, by posing as a young boy and the girl later committed suicide over it? yea, that lori drew.

    "the government’s strongest case for Swartz accessing computers without authorization was Swartz’s entering the MIT closet to hard wire his laptop into MIT’s network after he had been blocked twice by sysadmins when Swartz accessed the the network from a wireless connection. "

    thanks for cutting through the kneejerk bullshit, orin

    http://www.volokh.com/2013/02/.....qus_thread

  • T o n y||

    This may come as a great shock, but a libertarian approach to managing society is not the only option. Everyone who was enthralled by the Reagan revolution is now middle aged or older. Those of us who barely remember Reagan or weren't born yet saw nothing from the libertarian right but mean-spirited fact-averse pigheadedness in the face of obvious, widespread failures of the "government is the problem" mantra. This generation is choosing social consciousness over radical egoism. You may not like that but it's a perfectly legitimate choice for them to make.

  • db||

    A foolish choice is a choice, yes.

  • T o n y||

    The best choice for the current historical moment. We have problems on a global scale. Those by definition can't be solved by individuals looking only after their self-interest. They probably can't be solved by capitalism, and definitely not by capitalism alone.

  • Atlas||

    Good one. I'm sure they can be solved by central planning. It solved a hundred million problems in the 20th Century.

  • T o n y||

    You can't escape central planning. Indeed libertarian politicians would have to do a lot more legislating and planning and major overhauls to the way things are done than any socialist.

  • sarcasmic||

    Society is not something that is "managed". Government is to be a referee, not a manager. Without exception, everything that government "manages" turns to shit.

    Not that that is something your primitive "might is right" brain could ever comprehend.

    You were born into the wrong era. You would have been much more at home in one of the "managed" societies of the last century. Though you wouldn't have been at home for long. They murdered people like you.

  • T o n y||

    Without exception, everything that government "manages" turns to shit.

    Well there was that time government defeated the Nazis. This is not a fact, this is a self-serving platitude. The fact that we live relatively stable lives on a day-to-day basis is evidence of government's ability to manage things. You just pretend that we could get along better without it.

    You guys want to manage society every bit as much as socialists. You would just employ a hands-off management style. It's every bit as much a conscious choice as anything else, and it has consequences like anything else. You would like to absolve yourself of the consequences by obsessively focusing on the moral rectitude or viciousness of individuals. But that's practically a Medieval approach to managing society, except instead of an authority punishing people for what you consider moral transgressions, you're content to let nature do it. That's not not making a choice.

  • DarrenM||

    Well there was that time government defeated the Nazis.

    War. Death and destruction. One of the few things government actually excels at.

  • T o n y||

    Without exception, everything that government "manages" turns to shit.

    Well there was that time government defeated the Nazis. This is not a fact, this is a self-serving platitude. The fact that we live relatively stable lives on a day-to-day basis is evidence of government's ability to manage things. You just pretend that we could get along better without it.

    You guys want to manage society every bit as much as socialists. You would just employ a hands-off management style. It's every bit as much a conscious choice as anything else, and it has consequences like anything else. You would like to absolve yourself of the consequences by obsessively focusing on the moral rectitude or viciousness of individuals. But that's practically a Medieval approach to managing society, except instead of an authority punishing people for what you consider moral transgressions, you're content to let nature do it. That's not not making a choice.

  • Atlas||

    You are absolutely mistaken. We do not wish to "manage" society. We wish for people to be free to manage their own affairs to the best of their own abilities. This is absolutely not "management" by "us." You assume that society requires a management style, and in this lies your fatal error.

    All your fallacies and mistakes flow from this one simple misconception: That there is something called a "society" that exists outside the individuals that come together to create it.

  • From the Tundra||

    Individuals that come together voluntarily, of course. You're spot on, Atlas, but I don't envy you the task of arguing with it. Helpful hint: Sisyphus

  • sarcasmic||

    You guys want to manage society every bit as much as socialists.

    Your primitive brain really is unable to comprehend the simple concept of a society managing itself while government plays the role of referee. Sad.

  • Calidissident||

    One government defeating an even worse government is the best example you can come up with? And might I remind you that during that war the government locked up over 100,000 people because of what country they or their ancestors were from?

  • T o n y||

    No it's not the best I can come up with, just a particularly obvious example that completely destroys the claim.

  • Brandybuck||

    If they keep their choices to themselves I've got no problem with it. Hell, they can go voluntarily pay 99.5% in taxes if they want!

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    This may come as a great shock, but a libertarian approach to managing society is not the only option.

    Considering that society has been managed in an unlibertarian way for the vast vast majority of history, your concern about shock is overestimated... and so is the relevance of your point to this discussion.

  • ||

    referee. i can hang with that. note to perp we just arrested. if you have 2 felony warrants and a misdemeanor warrant, best not to cause a disturbance at the local convenience store by assaulting a customer, and overturning a shelf full of snacks because you were refused service.

    convenience store manager calls 911 and gives the plate as she drives off. assault victim doesn't hang around, so she doesn't have to worry about that case, but at a minimum gonna get trespassed (advised not to come back) to the convenience store.

    partner sees the car a couple of miles away. she gives false name ( of course) adding a contempt of cop charge as well (which will guaranteed be "tomorrow's warrant" when she doesnt take care of it).

    here's a hint. when you have 3 warrants for your arrest, and your kid in the car, why cause a disturbance at the local stop and rob over refusal to be served?

    this referee says - you're OUT. and enroute to jail.

    best part, we call her mom to the scene to pick up her kid and car and she is STILL giving the false name. mom gives us the real name and she accuses mom of lying.

    nice.

  • sarcasmic||

    I've known plenty of people in my time who have no respect for arbitrary legislation. In fact, I make a point of not becoming overly friendly with people who substitute legislation for morality. If I must associate myself with them, then I must. That said, the only people I have known who ever spent much time in court or jail were, well, lacking in intelligence. Kinda like the individual in your story.
    Smart people understand that they have to be lucky all the time, while you only need to be lucky once. So we plan accordingly.
    Stupid people don't plan.

  • ||

    it's a common thread i see with our customers,especially the frequent flyers.

    there is a persistent factor:they are either unwilling or incapable of understanding cause and effect.

    she's got warrants.she almost certainly knows this (giving the false name is a dead giveaway)-for eluding(a serious charge),theft, etc. neither arbitrary nor minor charges these.

    the stop and rob refuses her service.a "normal" person would just move on. but no, she's gotta perform her inner voice.setting aside that cops just happen to walk in those places all the time,she's gotta know they are going to call police.and of course give the cops her license plate.

    the baby in the car is a nice touch.

    she won't even get any charges out of her stopnrob tantrum.she overturned some counters and assaulted somebody,but that's just a warning.she knows there's a good chance of that happening - minor offense,not worth the store's or assault victim's or cop's time...

    but the warrants?and of course she just compounds her problem by persisting in the false name. like we are just going to accept this fantasy name without any verification. get real. just compounding the issue.

    calling her mom a liar.no class.and we were nice.we called mom to release the baby and the car too, not going to get CPS involved nor are we going to tow her car, even though due to her suspended license we are "supposed to".

    yea, her license is suspended too.
    complete disconnect between cause/effect... action.consequences

  • sarcasmic||

    One of my first roommates had "SP" tattooed on his shoulder. It was supposed to be "SPIDER MAN" but he wussed out after two letters. The joke was that it was short for "Stupid Person." He was in and out of jail, btw.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    If you're gonna tweak the Bronze, you gotta do it big.

  • sloopyinca||

    Maybe there is someone on here that thinks Washington State is a libertarian paradise that can explain why legislators in that state put forward a bill that would require many gun owners to allow sheriff's deputies into their house without a warrant to inspect it.

    Yeah, Washington State is a progressive shithole, a certain poster's comments notwithstanding.

  • sloopyinca||

    hth

  • ||

    troll-o-meter: .01

  • sloopyinca||

    Agreed. Those legislators are trolls.

    Nice dodge on the substance of the bill your state's legislators actually put forward, by the way. I was hoping for a substantive response but got what I expected instead.

  • ||

    When you take every opportunity you can to insult someone, they typically feel less of a desire to respond seriously. Perhaps if you didn't phrase every dispute with him as an insult or gotcha! moment, he would be more likely to converse seriously with you. Instead you "get what you expect" because your attempts seem more like subtle digs rather than sincere attempts to elicit "substantive response". You get what you ask for.

  • sloopyinca||

    Whoops. I linked the comments page by mistake. Here is the story. And it links to the Senate Bill (SB5737) with the text included.

    FTA: But then, with respect to the thousands of weapons like that already owned by Washington residents, the bill says this:

    “In order to continue to possess an assault weapon that was legally possessed on the effective date of this section, the person possessing shall ... safely and securely store the assault weapon. The sheriff of the county may, no more than once per year, conduct an inspection to ensure compliance with this subsection.”

    In other words, come into homes without a warrant to poke around. Failure to comply could get you up to a year in jail.

    That's the text in the bill, dumbass. Explain it away if you can, but that's what the legislators in your state want.

  • ||

    I don't like Zatoichi, but he is correct that support for the bill has been withdrawn, with even Democrats (including the lawyer who first noticed the language, and the writer of the article you cite) noticing the language, meaning, and being upset over it, with the lawyer who discovered it saying “They always say, we’ll never go house to house to take your guns away. But then you see this, and you have to wonder.” and “I’m a liberal Democrat — I’ve voted for only one Republican in my life. But now I understand why my right-wing opponents worry about having to fight a government takeover.” They couch it in more-reasonable-than-thou terms, but the sentiment is there.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    Legislators in nearly every state containing a large city are putting gun control bills. PA is mostly pro-gun and we have bills in the leg that would ban large capacity magazines, modern rifles, make it a felony to carry in a public park, supposedly in response to a gang shooting in a playground in Philly last year. They don't have the remotest chance of passing, but they're there.

  • Tulpa (LAOL-PA)||

    While I was looking for CCW info, I found this funny post from 2008 on the Brady Bunch blog:

    …About one in 20 people in Allegheny County has a permit to carry a concealed firearm, state police records show. With 60,000 licensed gun owners [Don't need a license to own in PA -Tulpa], the county has more than any county in the state. Statewide, more than 800,000 people can carry a concealed weapon.

    In other news, gun owners in Pennsylvania were so “afraid” of Barack Obama, the county with most licensed gun owners in the state voted for him 57%-42%. Obama also won such “fearful” counties as Bucks, Cambria, Centre, and Elks.

    Statewide, with the highest NRA membership per capita of any state in the Union, Obama won Pennsylvania by 55%-44%.

    Now, did they really vote for the “most anti-gun president in history,” or did they just come to realize the NRA was lying through their teeth?

    Either way, the National Rifle Association loses….
  • Virginian||

    They've been declaring the NRA dead for over 20 years now. Yet it keeps on getting bigger and bigger.

  • Death Rock and Skull||

    Fun has a period at the end of their name and once a month.

  • TA1776||

    "Until you realize that the older generation is scamming you - "

    It's not that the older generation is "scamming you". It's the government you voted for giving you what you deserve.

    Don't blame your elders. They aren't the ones you voted into office. You had the chance to vote in your own best interests in the last 2 elections and you didn't. Instead you voted for what you have now and you'll pay for it for the rest of your lives.

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    Nor am I at all concerned that pop stars and the kids to whom they sell may be dangerously oversexed, over-drugged, or overweight.

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    Kickoff to you with the online store 2013

  • Ijon Tichy||

    the year "god save the queen" was released "you light up my life" and the "love theme from a star is born " split the best song award

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    as Lucille replied I am stunned that a mother able to earn $4584 in four weeks on the computer. did you read this web site www.WOW92.com

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