Michele Bachmann's Unholy Crusade

The GOP presidential hopeful bashes unauthorized workers.

Michele Bachmann has rushed in where angels fear to tread. And she is a fool for doing so. Just when her campaign badly needed some class, she reached into the mud and found another group to demonize besides homosexuals: illegal immigrants. She announced recently that she would become the first GOP presidential candidate to make opposition to illegal immigration a signature issue, no doubt in a bid to shore up her flagging poll numbers against Rick Perry.

But this will put her in bed with groups such as the Center for Immigration Studies and Numbers USA who are the political godfathers of the modern anti-immigrant movement. Inspired by a radical Malthusianism, they tout an ultra restrictionist agenda—advocating in CIS's case a moratorium on all immigration, skilled and unskilled. They are part of a network of organizations founded by John Tanton, a Michigan-based ophthalmologist, who warmly applauded China’s one-child policy and sterilization of Third World women, all of which fundamentally conflicts with Bachmann’s Christian, pro-life beliefs.

They have peddled myths about unauthorized workers that have stymied rational immigration reform. Here are the five big ones that Bachmann will inevitably hawk.

Illegal Immigrants Raise Crime Rates

The reality is the exact opposite. The violent and property crime rate in Arizona actually declined between 1998 and 2008 as its illegal immigrant population soared, debunking the central rationale for the harsh anti-immigrant law it recently adopted. The same is true for California, New Mexico, and Texas. Indeed, El Paso, a Texas border town that has a predominantly Hispanic population—much of it foreign, illegal and poor—had the third lowest violent crime rate in 2008, after Honolulu and New York.

In fact, undocumented aliens have far lower crime and conviction rates than the native born because they want to avoid the law. Indeed, Jack Levin, a Northeastern University criminologist maintains that if you want to live in a safe city, find one with a large immigrant population.

Illegal Immigrants Threaten American Jobs and Depress Wages

They don’t. Why? Because they gravitate toward those sectors where the native-born don’t or won’t work. They complement, not supplant, the skills of Americans. For example, 54 percent of tailors in America are foreign born, but less than 1 percent of crane operators are.

The economy isn’t a zero-sum game where an immigrant’s gain is an American’s loss. Immigrants create their own jobs, starting businesses at a rate greater than the native-born. They enhance overall economic productivity, lowering the prices of goods and services and raising—not lowering—real wages.

Illegal Immigrants Mooch Off Welfare

In fact, available evidence suggests that unauthorized workers contribute more in taxes than they consume in services. The National Research Council found that unskilled immigrant families on average put $80,000 more into federal coffers than they use over their lifetimes, once the contributions of their children are factored in.

And that was before the 1996-welfare reform act. Since then, illegals have been barred from collecting most means-tested federal benefits except for emergency medical services. However, they didn’t get a reprieve from taxes. All of them pay state sales taxes and property taxes (through rent) that help offset the cost of roads, schools and other non-means tested services they use. And 62 percent of them also pay federal income taxes (via withholdings) while 66 percent contribute to Social Security and Medicare. Their Social Security contributions put $50 billion annually into something called the “earnings suspense file” that they’ll likely never see again because they use fake Social Security numbers on their returns that can’t be traced back to them.

Illegal Immigrants are Queue-Jumpers Who Violate the Rule of Law

This trope has turned amnesty into a dirty word. It suggests that regularizing unauthorized workers would effectively diss the millions patiently waiting their turn. This betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of our immigration system.

The folks waiting in the “queue” are mainly skilled immigrants because there is a queue for them to wait in. Not so with most unskilled immigrants.

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  • some guy||

    Surprise. Surprise. Bachman is just another standard Republican. Better, parhaps, than Romney, but only marginally. When is Gary Johnson's next debate?

  • JohnD||

    Some Guy, you are as big a fool as Dalmir. So now illegal aliens are "Unautorized Workers"?

    What part of "illegal" do you idiots not understand?

  • PIRS||

    JohnD, do you support all laws? Should Obamacare remain on the books? If, not, would you have sympathy for someone who broke that law?

  • ||

    not supporting a law is different from deliberately ignoring it. Some speed limit laws are foolish; doesn't mean I go 85 just because I can. Is it too much to ask that this new class of immigrants follow the same rules that others worked through...

  • Cabeza de Vaca||

    "Unautorized Workers"

    What do you have against workers that don't drive?

  • PIRS||

    +1

  • MrGuy||

    Is that what they aren't doing on the highways?

  • some guy||

    Some Guy, you are as big a fool as Dalmir. So now illegal aliens are "Unautorized Workers"?

    What part of "illegal" do you idiots not understand?

    ::Sigh:: Where to begin?

    First of all, I'm "some guy", not "Some Guy". He's a different person on these forums.

    Second, people can disagree with you on policy issues without being idiots. It's called a difference of opinion. Personally, I favor maximizing individual freedom and individual responsibility.

    Lastly, there is evidence that immigrants, legal or otherwise, contribute to the progress of our society. Why do you hate progress?

  • Slap the Enlightened!||

    Lastly, there is evidence that immigrants, legal or otherwise, contribute to the progress of our society.

    I'd like to see that evidence. Maybe if you're talking about immigrants from China, India, Canada, U.K., Germany, France, Russia, Korea, or Japan, you'd be on to something. But that isn't where we get the majority of our immigrants.

    Mexico? I think Jim Goad called that one exactly right.

  • some guy||

    Did you read the article? The article is mostly about how immigrants aren't hurting our society, but are actually contributing to it. This includes the illegals and the unskilled.

    The Drug War is a whole other problem entirely. Get rid of that and most of our actual problems on the southern border will vanish.

  • Slap the Enlightened!||

    Did you read the article? The article is mostly about how immigrants aren't hurting our society, but are actually contributing to it. This includes the illegals and the unskilled.

    Yes, I read the article. Merely asserting something to be true is not evidence that it is. And I have yet to see any of that.

  • ||

    Stop demanding and consuming the goods and services produced by illegal aliens and/or increase the number of immigration visas for the workers that come/stay here illegally to produce the goods and services that we demand and consume.

  • Realist||

    Do you shit for brains open border advocates think Ron Paul is for open borders???
    It is the stupid open border idea that will assure that Libertarians go nowhere.

  • Zeb||

    No, we know that that is one of Paul's major flaws.
    There are consistent and principled reasons to be in favor of open borders. You may disagree, but if you can't see that, it is you with the shit for brains.

  • Zed||

    A principled reason to be for open borders is that we don't care who comes in the door and lives off our welfare system, clogs our schools with illiterates, demands multi-lingual legal proceedings, and votes in big government a-holes.

    -shit for brains Zeb

  • Realist||

    Gary Johnson has ZERO chance to be anything!

  • some guy||

    He's already a two-term Governor. That's something.

    Also, do Huntsman, Santorum or Cain have a non-ZERO chance to be "anything"?

  • Realist||

    No.

  • Aqua Buddha||

    What about gay illegal immigrants? I'm SO naming my rock band and/or fantasy football team that.

  •  ||

    rock band and/or fantasy football team

    Both are fantasies.

  • Whitey the Injun||

    tanz Puppe, tanz

  • ||

    Myth #6:
    America is a sovereign nation that can enforce it's own borders. ...Oops! That's the one you really hate.

  •  ||

    enforce it's own borders

    It is own borders?

  • GILMORE||

    REAL AMERICANS CANT WRITE!!

  • Pedant||

    Auto correct is a reason to dis someone's point of view.

  • ||

    A sovereign nation can also execute anyone it wants to.

    That doesn't mean it should.

  • JohnD||

    I would be willing to make an exception for a few people on this forum.

  • Cabeza de Vaca||

    That tells me all I need to know tough guy.

  • Cow's ass||

    You are confusing yourself with me.

  • PIRS||

    Of course you would. That is what statists often want to do with those who get in the way.

  • jacob the barbarian||

    Every nation that has lost control of its borders has fared poorly both economically and socially. The argument that we did not control our borders in 1790 is bullshit. Migration from the west was impossible as movement through Indian territory was problematic. Migration across the Atlantic was also difficult, and getting passage cost way more than people could typically afford.

    Those who did come here where not allowed to vote till they became citizens. A process that took years, and th3ere was no social safety net, let alone applications in German, Dutch, Polish or French.

    Note, back then the majority of the migrants were not the poor down trodden brown skinned people. Cry me a river with the bullshit faux sympathy. The majority of immigration laws were passed over 70 years ago. They were not passed with the fucked up idea of harassing Pancho Villa's cousin, who was born in East LA.

    Assholes. The libertarian ideal is one that sprang from western culture. That culture is worth defending, the primary defense of culture is language. Western ideals such as equality before the law - divorced from sex, creed and race - will not survive if the current societies that gave rise to them collapse. I do not give a fuck about the color of a man's skin, I do care that the current crop of migrants will be assimilated, "Americanized".

    During the last huge influx of migrants society did not cater to those who failed to assimilate. We do now. This is a problem.

  • Metazoan||

    So you can't be libertarian and speak Mandarin? Or Russian? Or even (gasp) Spanish? I don't see language making a difference here.

  • BigT||

    His point is that language unifies the country. Earlier immigrants almost universally wanted to become Americanized and encouraged their kids to adopt American culture. not so this time around. The US is becoming balkanized.

  • MWG||

    "They were not passed with the fucked up idea of harassing Pancho Villa's cousin, who was born in East LA."

    You right. They were passed with the fucked up idea of harassing Asians.

    http://www.umass.edu/complit/aclanet/USMigrat.html

  • ||

    Western ideals such as equality before the law - divorced from sex, creed and race -

    ...but apparently not divorced from the equally arbitrary birthplace...

    will not survive if the current societies that gave rise to them collapse.

    Do you really have so little faith in the strength and robustness of Western ideals? Do you really think they so incredibly fragile? I think they are ascendent.

  • BigT||

    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson

  • MWG||

    From teh immigrants? Surprising the TJ himself never saw fit to 'protect' us from the immigrants.

  • The guy on the $100 bill||

    Why should the Mexicans be suffered to swarm into our settlements, and by herding together establish their language and manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should the border states, long home to Americans, become a colony of aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Mexicanize us instead of our Americanizing them, and will never adopt our language or customs, any more than they can acquire our complexion.

  • O2||

    actually 2d & 3d gen immigrant families assimilate well whether italian, vietnamese, or mexican

  • I, Kahn O'Clast||

    I live in New Mexico and have zero problem with our immigrant population - legal or otherwise. In general Latino immigrants are industrious, family-oriented, conservative and devout... Sure many on the Right think Catholicism is the wrong kind of devout, but really, these people "walk the walk" the right are always espousing .....

    Aside from racism, there's no good reason to oppose these people coming here.

    From talking with a number of people whose families date back to when this was part of Mexico it was not until very recently -- this and maybe part of the last generation -- when permanent migration became an issue. Extended families on both sides of the border visited each other frequently and movement across the border was easy. Now people have to choose which side to stay on: you can guess which becomes the more often choice...

  • Cognitive Dissonance||

    "In general Latino immigrants are industrious, family-oriented, conservative and devout..." ... who also vote for socialist economic policies.

    In other words, populist social conservatives AKA perfect Libertarians.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Aside from racism, there's no good reason to oppose these people coming here.

    If they were a net drain on governmental social services -- and eliminating those social services is not currently feasible -- is that not conceivably a good reason or is it just racism straight up?

  • Metazoan||

    No, it's a conceivably good reason to end those government services though ;)

  • sarcasmic||

    Aside from racism, there's no good reason to oppose these people coming here.

    It's racist to oppose people who work under the table sending their kids to tax funded public schools?

    It's racist to oppose people committing fraud and identity theft?

    It's racist to oppose illegal immigrants using citizen children to receive tax funded social assistance while they don't pay taxes?

    OK, whatever you say.

  • ||

    It's racist to oppose illegal immigrants using citizen children to receive tax funded social assistance while they don't pay taxes?

    First of all, it isn't the illegals don't pay any taxes. They buy shit, so they pay some taxes.

    We could solve this problem by getting rid of the income tax and replace it with a sales tax (or VAT, or whatever the correct nomenclature is).

  • sarcasmic||

    In principle I agree.
    In practice there is no way the government will give up the power to tax income.
    So any national consumption tax would be in addition to all the other taxes we have.

  • some guy||

    The Fair Tax has quite a bit of support. A few more elections and it could have enough to push it over the edge. Even amending the Constitution might not be that hard. There's a lot of states that would be happy to do away with the income tax.

  • sarcasmic||

    Do you honestly think the federal government will give up the power to tax income?
    That's how they can blackmail the states and engineer society.
    Citizens pay the feds, and the feds make the states pass laws as a condition of the money being returned.
    Or the feds let this but not that be deducted to engineer society into buying this but not that.
    That is immense power, and you're out of touch with reality if you think they'll give it up.

  • ||

    No, none of the things you mention are racist. Forbidding increased LEGAL immigration is racist & statist. Why shouldn't I be able to hire a mexican to do my landscaping or watch my kids?

    As far as I can tell, most of it comes back to somehow keeping America "pure".

  • sarcasmic||

    The issue is people who come to the country and take more from the welfare state than they contribute.
    That has nothing to do with racism.
    If we didn't have a welfare state I would support open borders.

  • 2O||

    1 of 5 false arguments. next try increased crime rates

  • ||

    So obviously you're not racist, but Kahn's point is valid in that a lot of the people (the ones in the article) advocating against immigration, legal or otherwise, are doing so out of racist reasons.

    I agree that the welfare state is the true problem, but it's kind of like what Matt Welch said a week ago - the best response to stupid zoning laws is not to subsidize rail, but to repeal the stupid zoning laws.

  • ||

    I don't even care if it is racist. I'd still oppose illegal immigration.

    When I visit foreign countries, (which I have many times) I obey their laws. I pass through their customs; I show them a legitimate passport; I answer their questions truthfully; I do not overstay my welcome or remain after my visa has expired. If they want me to wear a head scarf or observe a curfew or not suck face with my DBF in public, I might think it's bullshit, but I obey. Why? Because I'm a guest. It isn't my country. If the citizens of my host country believe that preserving their culture is more important than catering to my lazy-assed whims, it's their call.

    I expect people who visit my country to do the same. Either you obey the laws and make a good-faith effort to be as little trouble or burden to your hosts as possible, or you can GTFO.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    Love that argument.

    "Aside from racism, there's no good reason to oppose affirmative action."

    "Aside from racism, there's no good reason to oppose hate crime legislation."

    "Aside from racism, there's no good reason to oppose the Civil Rights Act restrictions on private property rights."

  • sarcasmic||

    If you disagree with me you are guilty of racism, and the only way you can prove your innocence is to agree with me.

  • Scott66||

    "Latino immigrants are industrious, family-oriented, conservative and devout"

    This is partially true at best. The out of wedlock birthrate is over 50% for this population and polling shows the majority favor democrat policies which is how they vote when legal. Look at voting paterns in California if you doubt me.

    If you want to be for open borders so be it but don't act like a typical liberal by shouting racism against those that disagree.

  • ||

    I still can't understand why being opposed to illegal immigration is automatically lumped in with not wanting Mexicans here. Just because I want to actually enforce the law doesn't mean I hate brown people.

    I do think that our immigration policy needs some serious work. That however, doesn't mean that people should just be allowed to skip the line.

    Ideally, we should allow any who want in access, after a medical screening, a fairly basic background check, and with a restriction on social services for the first few years. We still need them to come in legally.

  • ||

    Because the restrictions on imigration for a nation our size are ludicrously low and highly nativist in its intent. If the US policy balanced immigration and made work visas for guest workers so much easier, we'd have alot less issues. Its poor natives deathly afraid of the brown job taking menace that created this ridiculous mess.

  • Realist||

    We need to decrease low IQ immigration (illegal or otherwise) and put the assholes that are on food stamps and federal assistance to work. We need to increase high IQ immigration.

  • 2O||

    so what's ur plan to transport & shelter welfare recipients fm the inner city to work the fields?

  • Realist||

    Cut off their transfer payments and they'll transport and shelter themselves....or starve to death!

  • MWG||

    "That however, doesn't mean that people should just be allowed to skip the line."

    Same bullshit, different immigration thread.

  • MwG||

    I couldn't come up with anything to contribute so i put out this extremely clever line. ain't i cute!

  • MWG||

    It's bullshit to suggest there's some magical line, and that if potential immigrants were only to get in it they can come here legally.

    This idea has been vomited on just about every immigration thread and has been roundly refuted as pure bullshit, hence, "Same bullshite, different immigration thread."

    http://reason.org/files/a87d15.....116079.pdf

  • I, Kahn O'Clast||

    It is clear that many who responded to my comment failed to read the article in question as they continue to claim that immigrants are sucking vastly more off the nation than they give back.

    I am in favor of a complete dismantling of the welfare state and open borders. I suspect most who comment here would support the first and not the second. For what reason -- assuming the statements in the article are correct -- could this be aside from some form of nativist knee-jerking?

  • Quiet Desperation||

    But the welfare state will never, ever be dismantled, so some of us prefer to muck about with ideas that might actually happen, like better border security coupled with immigration reform.

    You're like my 81 year old dad with his "We fix the country by doing the following..." and what follows is a series of changes that would require absolute dictatorial power and mind control rays capable of working on the scale of a continent. Fantasy solution is fantasy.

    And your mindless "any disagreement is racism" bullshit is old and tired. Call us racist- we don't give a shit anymore. The "cry wolf" effect is grinding that one into the dust.

    Too much of this ideological theory is like the frictionless blocks used in physics books. At some point you need to put down the theory and deal with what's actually possible in the real world.

  • ||

    As long as governments exist boarders will exist therefore necessitating a regulation of the goods and people crossing said boarders. If your argument is to abolish all government above the local level, therefore creating a society with truly open boarders and no welfare complex I am 100% on board. That isn't what you're promoting though, so plfffft!

  • I, Kahn O'Clast||

    Well, actually, that is exactly what I would most like ... So plfffft back...

  • BigT||

    A college education is quite expensive, with private schools at $50k/yr. Public colleges costs are similar, but the costs are subsidized by the taxpayers, so the students typically pay $10-20k depending on the state/school. How long does someone have to contribute to reach $30-$40k, the cost of the subsidy he/she is getting from the taxpayers? A LONG time.

    "On Thursday, the California Senate Appropriations Committee passed AB 131, which would allow undocumented pupils to sign up for public financial aid at state schools."

    http://www.washingtontimes.com.....-illegals/

    Any argument that illegals are paying more, or as much as, they are receiving are fanciful.

  • Tim||

    The worst thing about the swarming aliens is the face hugger things.

  • Quiet Desperation||

    They're like snails. Just put some salt on them and they recoil, although a small, judiciously applied crowbar does help.

  • ||

    Will someone please save me from hot Latino chicks, homemade salsa, sombreros, and especially that family oriented outlook?

  • Ramsey||

    I know, the family of illegals that live next to me are always outside around the barbeque with their families instead of watching TV, and I hate it when they invite us over to eat their delicious grilled flank steak.

  • BigT||

    The family next to me cooked their meals in animal fats, so the entire complex smelled like a rendering plant 24/7. I was glad when they were deported.

  • mr simple||

    Did I fall in a worm hole and travel back in time this morning or have we already debated this article ad nauseam?

  • ||

    I vote for wormhole.

  • O2||

    wingnutz emulate 19th century know-nothings. back to the future babiee!

  • PIRS||

    What does any of this have to do with Pterocarya?

  • MJ||

    What does this article have to do with policies Bachman specifically favors? It seems more like a sop to current events so that Dalmia can publish another angry, somewhat unhinged, pro-illegal immigration rant.

  • I, Kahn O'Clast||

    I think the point being made here is that Bachman has decided to take a strong anti stance and here are the reasons she is wrong. It's a fine rebuttal but I would have been more interested in finding out how such a stance has been polling. It could well help win her the nomination even as it could hurt her in the general election.

  • sarcasmic||

    are the reasons she is wrong

    What does right and wrong have to do with anything?
    She's just another fucking attorney telling people whatever she thinks they want to hear so she can get them to side with her.
    In this case she's pandering to big government social conservatives who give lip service to less government. The Hannity crowd.

  • Slap the Enlightened!||

    It's a fine rebuttal but I would have been more interested in finding out how such a stance has been polling.

    Apparently it's polling quite well, thankyouverymuch.

  • BigT||

    "At the same time, 57% of voters agree that the goal of U.S. immigration policy should be to keep out national security threats, criminals and those who would come here to live off our welfare system"

    Agree. We can calculate how many we can support on the welfare system and limit immigration to that number.

  • ||

    I've got a busy day ahead of me so I'll preemptively say, "Shut the fuck up, LoneWhacko!"

  • Whitey the Injun||

    So, you're gonna bow at the altar of the AGR{icultu}ral-Ci{}ty state?

  • ||

    I knew there was something familiar about the crazy shit you spew. Folks, LoneWhacko has returned.

  • GILMORE||

    Just Dropping By|8.30.11 @ 8:18AM|#
    I've got a busy day ahead of me so I'll preemptively say, "Shut the fuck up, LoneWhacko!"

    1) you're 4 years too late
    2) no H

  • ||

    Has it been that long? 4 years?

  • GILMORE||

    Welcome to the Suck

  • Tim||

    Bachmann is the new Palin.

  • O2||

    same pandering, diff grift

  • Any guy||

    smaller tits

  • sarcasmic||

    When will we stop putting attorneys into political office?

    We vote for professional liars and are then surprised when we discover that everything they claimed to stand for was a lie?

  • Tom Owens||

    I beg to differ on your contention that illegal immigrants have no affect on American jobs or wages. Since the influx of illegal and undocumented workers in the construction industry exploded in the 80s and 90s, construction wages in the U.S. have declined or remained stagnant. By 2008, roughly 20% of all workers in the U.S. construction industry were illegal or undocumented, according to the Pew Hispanic Research Center. Today, and their use - and abuse - is placing untold competitive pressures on responsible contractors and business owners who must compete against a "race to the bottom" business model; and that impacts the standard of living for American workers.

  • ||

    Supply and demand laws don't apply in the low skill labor market apparently. Illegal immigration fucks a certain group of people. Now maybe the good outweighs the bad. That is a reasonable argument. What is not a reasonable argument is the one Dalmia makes which is that the people getting fucked don't even have a right to voice their complaints. Fuck her. She is by far my least favorite reason writer.

  • 2O||

    this is the 2d of 5 immigration fallacies. next try increased crime

  • ||

    So no one is hurt by immigration. You get dumber every day.

  • MWG||

    So I'll take it you don't find anything wrong with companies who are hurt from foreign competition seeking protection from the govt.

  • GILMORE||

    construction wages in the U.S. have declined or remained stagnan

    as opposed to other industries?

    "Blame Mexicans!"

    Seriously though, don't look too hard at the numbers. Or else you'll have no one to point fingers at.

  • ||

    I have a news flash for Dalmia, the majority of the country does not support open borders. I know she thinks the proles ought to be ignored and have no right to even have a candidate represent their views on this. But the proles don't look at it that way.

    The point of this whole article seems to be "Presidential candidate embraces popular issue I don't like". So fucking what Shika?

  • ||

    Isn't that the point of every article around election time?

    Deep breaths, John.

  • ||

    What pisses me off is the implication that Bachmann is somehow crazy or "no class" whatever that means for embracing a popular mainstream issue.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure that remarks like this get thrown back and forth a lot concerning important issues like this. Bachmann is getting no worse treatment than any other. "No class" is quite tame compared to "racist" or "economic terrorist."

    Also, you should be surprised to see a view like this on a Libertarian site.

  • ||

    shouldN'T

  • 2O||

    immigrant bashing was also popular w the 19th century know-nothings. back to the wingnutz future babiee

  • Jeff||

    Quite fucking true.

  • MWG||

    "I have a news flash for Dalmia, the majority of the country does not support open borders."

    The majority of Americans are protectionists. What's your point?

  • NotSure||

    If she and Palin become president and vice president imagine all the porn movies that can be made depicting the two. The amount sales alone will lift the economy out of all its problems.

  • Fatty Bolger||

    But this will put her in bed with groups such as the Center for Immigration Studies and Numbers USA who are the political godfathers of the modern anti-immigrant movement.

    "Shikha Dalmia has argued strongly for unrestricted immigration for Mexicans into the United States. But this will put her in bed with groups such as the Mexica Movement and Voz de Aztlan who are the political godfathers of the Reconquista movement."

    I'm sympathetic to your argument Shikha, but come on now. You can do better than this.

  • Night Elf Mohawk||

    Based on what I've read here, I'm not so sure she can.

  • GILMORE||

    Immigration = the great political head-fake of the 21st century.

    Does anyone here realize how much we *need* people to come here?

  • Slap the Enlightened!||

    Well, no, I don't. We already have 300 million. How many is enough?

  • Zeb||

    How many indeed? And if we go over that number, I suppose you would support a one-child policy?

  • MWG||

    Actually, slappy is a fascist so it would come as no surprise if he did.

  • 2O||

    qilmore - why wont citizens do those [JOBZ]?

  • ||

    Ms. Bachmann has zero chance of winning the nomination as represent only a small fraction of the populace. Stop giving here free publicity and let her campaign die of neglect.

  • Fiscal Meth||

    I don't know why we keep letting in all these illegals when God has made it clear through storms and earthquakes that he is angry about them terkin er jerbs!

    Von Mises on the beach my ass.

  • Slap the Enlightened!||

    However, immigration flows are remarkably self-regulating when left to market forces. They increase when the U.S. economy is booming relative to Mexico’s, and diminish when it slows down. Indeed, a growing body of research, including by Princeton University’s Mexican Migration Project, has found that since America’s recession began, the flow of Mexican workers has gone into negative territory. But even during booms, the flow closely tacks the jobs available and the economy’s capacity to absorb foreign workers.

    Bullshit.

    Illegal Immigrants Threaten American Jobs and Depress Wages

    They don’t. Why? Because they gravitate toward those sectors where the native-born don’t or won’t work. They complement, not supplant, the skills of Americans.

    Again, bullshit.

  • Ray Ray||

    It's nonsense. I'm sick of educated motherfuckers thinking that ANY unskilled work is "undesireable" to the people who live legally in this country. Not only is it completely untrue, it's elitist AND racist. Is this really an argument? "Let the mexicans come in here, because who the hell else wants to do that shitty ass work?" That's her argument, right? Get a real job, you POS.

  • Metazoan||

    So the government should prevent the free movement of labor in order to temporarily prevent brown people from taking "our" jobs? Why not prevent the free flow of capital also, build iPhones here!

  • Cytotoxic||

    You should actually be ashamed of using this as "evidence". You have no evidence and these anecdotes serve to make you look desperate.

  • ||

    this guy is completely wrong. 45 billion dollars a year is taken out of our economy and sent to mexico. Studies have been done illegals use of social programs is higher than the native born. entire industries where paying more 20-30 years ago than they do today. Gang sweeps even as far north as salt lake city comprise of 80% illegal. massive illegal immigration cannot be compared to legal immigration from europe. today in america people live their whole lives here and never learn english.

  • Ray Ray||

    It's some foreign chick I think, but yeah, she's wrong. Mexican illegal immigrants get in trouble with the law all the time, are often involved with drug crime and gangs, and certainly take advantage of our welfare programs. Illegals often let first generation anchor babies grow up to claim their children on taxes, use the emergency room for their doctor, and often have 5 or 6 names, all elligible for benefits because of fraud. Many of them DO pay taxes because they consume American products and get fake social security numbers for employment, but they are usually making WAY below any income amount that would allow them to pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits. You want to make a libertarian claim that businesses have a voluntary relationship with illegal immigrants and therefore competition is in play, yadda yadda yadda, fine. But I want to see some real facts, here. It doesn't make any sense that people with ties to another nearby country with no paper trail are MORE likely to contribute to US taxes and LESS likely to commit crime. And don't spout that racist, classist bullshit about what kind of jobs American people would do. Take away welfare programs in general and you won't have the unemployed scoffing at McDonald's jobs.

  • Metazoan||

    That money was earned by people. It isn't "ours" it belongs to individuals.

    Private property > nationalism.

  • MWG||

    Fucking basic economics, how does it work?

  • MwG||

    Ignoring the point. Don't pay any attention to me.

  • MWG||

    What point? Mercantilism mixed with a poor understanding of Econ 101 makes for a legitimate point?

  • jacob the barbarian||

    Every nation that has lost control of its borders has fared poorly both economically and socially. The argument that we did not control our borders in 1790 is bullshit. Migration from the west was impossible as movement through Indian territory was problematic. Migration across the Atlantic was also difficult, and getting passage cost way more than people could typically afford.

    Those who did come here where not allowed to vote till they became citizens. A process that took years, and th3ere was no social safety net, let alone applications in German, Dutch, Polish or French.

    Note, back then the majority of the migrants were not the poor down trodden brown skinned people. Cry me a river with the bullshit faux sympathy. The majority of immigration laws were passed over 70 years ago. They were not passed with the fucked up idea of harassing Pancho Villa's cousin, who was born in East LA.

    Assholes. The libertarian ideal is one that sprang from western culture. That culture is worth defending, the primary defense of culture is language. Western ideals such as equality before the law - divorced from sex, creed and race - will not survive if the current societies that gave rise to them collapse. I do not give a fuck about the color of a man's skin, I do care that the current crop of migrants will be assimilated, "Americanized".

    During the last huge influx of migrants society did not cater to those who failed to assimilate. We do now. This is a problem.

  • ||

    Western ideals such as equality before the law - divorced from sex, creed and race -

    ...but apparently not divorced from the equally arbitrary birthplace...

    will not survive if the current societies that gave rise to them collapse.

    Do you really have so little faith in the strength and robustness of Western ideals? Do you really think they so incredibly fragile? I think they are ascendent.

  • ||

    Razor wire. 1969 miles of it.

    OK, some mine fields.

    "Undocumented workers" my ass.

  • Yet another Dave||

    I really wish the United States could bring an end to the schizophrenic immigration policies we have. I mean, if we're not going to enforce our sovereignty, then why do my tax dollars fund a boarder patrol? If we are going to enforce our sovereignty, then why do we let illegal immigrants or undocumented workers or whatever the hell we're calling them this week get educational benefits and clog up our emergency rooms?

    I don't want a wall or a moat or any of that nonsense. America is a land of immigrants, not a land of isolationists. The Statue of Liberty says to give us your tired, your poor, etc. A wall/moat would say just the opposite.

    But we do need to protect our boarders and enforce our sovereignty even in the Heartland. Granted, not everyone who comes into this country illegally does so to bring in drugs or whatever, but it happens, and we need to deal with that. Of course, if we remove all the brass rings (jobs, benefits, etc.), then the job of the boarder patrol gets a lot easier because there isn't as much incentive to cross the boarder illegally.

    But we also need to make the hoops required for legal access be as few as possible. Again, nation of immigrants ... we need to act like it, and make sure that anyone willing to play by the rules is welcomed with open arms.

    As for Michelle Bachmann, she's an idiot for making this a campaign topic. People's minds right now are on the economy, three wars, ObamaCare, etc. Issues like illegal immigration and gay marriage are going to do more for making people vote against her than it will get people to vote for her.

  • Sven||

    Laws must be upheld. Rosa Parks should have rot in jail, she committed a crime after all.

  • jacob the barbarian||

    non-citizen crossing the border without a visa verses a _citizen_ beng treated as a sub-human.

    Great analogy! Spot. On.

    NOT!

  • Metazoan||

    Because rights only apply to people with the government status of "citizen!"

    NOT!

  • MWG||

    It actually is. Do you have an argument other than the shallow 'teh law is teh law'?

  • MwG||

    I can't tell the difference between a citizen and a guest. come to my house, screw my wife, and drink my vino.

  • Yet another Dave||

    "Unauthorized workers" sounds like I charged behind the counter at the 7-11 and made my own Slurpee, rather than someone who broke the law simply by entering the country.

  • Zeb||

    It's simple. I have the right to employ or rent/sell my property to whomever I choose. Laws restricting immigration limit my rights to do these things. There is no collective ownership of the whole country.
    There are lots of good arguments against the welfare state here (or at least against giving welfare to immigrants), but very few against immigration.

  • Metazoan||

    +1,000

  • BigT||

    If there's no collective ownership of the whole country, what part of Yosemite is mine to do with as i please?

  • ||

    [It's simple. I have the right to employ or rent/sell my property to whomever I choose.]

    No one's arguing that point aside from the employ thingie.

    [Laws restricting immigration limit my rights to do these things.]

    Not really, only the employ thingie.

    [There is no collective ownership of the whole country.]

    The concept of public vs private property escapes you?

    {....but very few against immigration.]

    So says you.

  • Arcaster||

    No one's arguing that point aside from the employ thingie.

    So you are arguing that point.

    Not really, only the employ thingie.

    So you're only willing to limit some of his rights? What other rights of others are you willing to trade away?

    The concept of public vs private property escapes you?

    I would love to hear your take on public vs. private property.

  • Holy Cow||

    Why doesn't Reason puts its money where its mouth is?

    Let anyone at anytime post whatever they want as a separate blog post, not just as a comment. Instead of just the Reason writers being able to post entries, why not enable anyone to do it?

    I mean, after all, the US should have open borders. Why Not Reason????

    Of course, Reason gets to limit what's done within its borders. And that's not racist, either. It's just smart and science-y!

  • MWG||

    Fucking private property rights, how do they work?

  • ||

    Well, in this case the owners, ie citizens, get to restrict rights of, well, non owners. Clearer?

  • MWG||

    In the case of 'citizens' as 'owners' it would be more accurate to say we collectively own the skyscraper, but it's really none of you business who I invite over to my condo. Clearer?

  • MwG||

    It's all about skyscrapers! Of course my skyscraper has NO restrictions on who comes in. No locks on the doors, no doorman, and all solicitors are welcome!

  • MwG||

    It's all about skyscrapers! Of course my skyscraper has NO restrictions on who comes in. No locks on the doors, no doorman, and all solicitors are welcome!

  • Brian||

    Looking at a much larger scale, wouldn't it be fair to say that nations can also establish borders that are for the acquisition and use of its citizens and other legal residents , just as Reason.com has established it's own "borders" per say, where they get to decide what to do with it?

    I agree with libertarians on many issues, but it seems many of them are secretly either libertines and/or anarchists.

  • Arcaster||

    Um, Reason =/= government.

    A better comparison to Reason would be you not allowing people onto your private property. You have no right to tell individuals which person they can hire just as much as you have no right to tell them who they can have over for dinner.

  • Yet another Dave||

    +1

  • Yet another Dave||

    Typed that in the wrong spot - meant it for Holy Cow.

  • Arcaster||

    Here's the brilliant Don Boudreaux writing about immigration.

    http://cafehayek.com/2010/08/t.....rrors.html

  • BigT||

    No problem with people coming to work for wages. Problem with people coming and using services paid for by taxpayers and them NOT paying for those services. Also a problem with adding multi-lingual signage and documents.

  • Brittanicus||

    Never will we get a straight truth from Democrats who believe our borders should remain open? Neither have we got the specifics from the Liberal oriented media. So many articles are missed by the general public, because the Leftist press chooses to blackout different factual articles, as it would add ammunition to securing the border. For instance according to an "American Patrol" in today’s report, that on June 18, 2010, Arizona Republican Senator Jon Kyl told the audience at a North Phoenix Tea Party town hall meeting that during a private, one-on-one meeting with President Obama in the Oval Office, the President told him, regarding securing the southern border with Mexico, "The problem is... if we secure the border, then you all won't have any reason to support 'comprehensive immigration reform.'" There is a video of Senator Kyl saying exactly these words at the TEA Party convention at "Vision for American" website.

    I have found that many websites frown on web addresses, but you can locate these very serious information articles at American Patrol, NumbersUSA and the conservative legal website Judicial Watch, by typing these web sites into Google. The websites don’t pull punches and are very explicit in intelligence on illegal immigration and other political news not revealed in the Liberal predisposed news reports. These articles in the majority of cases are backed by hard facts, such as the Los Angeles Times ignoring the report about the tunnel under our Southern Border. Its, Liberal bias runs parallel to the Arizona Republic. This media are not separate on the belief, that the way between Mexico and our sovereign nation should be wide open. They are citing that because of these tunnels under our border, is sufficient evidence that the fence doesn't work. The fact is it does work? Otherwise they wouldn’t build tunnels?

    If the border fence was constructed according to Rep. Duncan Hunter’s design of two parallel fences with roads and watchtowers, in between, adorning the two thousand miles with concertina razor wire. This would stop the invasion by economic aliens from across the border. Trouble is the fence remains open in so many areas covering hundreds of miles. Deployment of 5000 National Guard along the fencing would halt for good these everyday incursions into our country. Not only would it would dissuade thousands turning up every month, including females pregnant; intentionally entering America to have free reign to our welfare programs for citizens. Taxpayers could begin to save billions of dollars in the educational, health care and prisons, all overcrowded with illegal aliens. Mexico is saying that the influx of their native-born has dwindled, but when the actual Mexico cities politicians handed out guide book to slip past the US Border Patrol, who are you inclined to believe? In any case we are already supporting 20 million plus alien foreigners from across the world. A government National ID card could put an end to the illegal immigration occupation.

    In the political pit that is the Senate and Congress, you cannot expect to close the loopholes in immigration, as the Democrats driven by the Liberals want future votes. Then the Republican establishment likes the unceasing flow of migrants for cheap slave labor, so they don't have to pay a full measure of pay and benefits to Citizens and legal residents. It is the same with the farms and mega agricultural acreage. Cheap labor in the fields, service industries, manufacturing, and construction want no changes to the laws. They certainly don't want the 1986 Immigration laws enforced, because none of them could exploit the millions already here or those who are encouraged to come here across borders or through an aircraft terminal. Our immigration policies are a mess, because they are not enforced. That why America has a yearly deficit of 113 billion dollars and no politician has placed a bill on the table to halt the $46 Billion dollars a year going to other foreign lands in illegal worker allotments. That $113 billion dollars is not going to remain the same forever, but it rising every year to new heights.

    Behind all these illegal immigration issues and the open border agenda is money. It’s just plain greed spawned by both parties. The majorities of lawmakers are not interested in the American people’s rights, interests or will. But it's in the people’s interest to restrain these legislators who would approve another ugly mass amnesty. We cannot afford another Immigration Reform package from either party, as we have already been bled to a husk by those already illegally settled here. Just think the political high echelon already served us on a plate, to raise the $14.6 Trillion debt ceiling to a new high, by another $2.Trillion dollars. In California, a Sanctuary State they are ready to close down 70 State parks, but the Liberal Governor Jerry Brown thinks nothing of pushing forward with a State Dream Act. Another cost for this ailing State one way or another, when they are trying to cut down on their impossible deficit of $26 Billion dollar.

    It only makes sense to give the TEA PARTY leadership a chance to resolve what’s wrong with America. The TEA PARTY could not do any worse than the majority of corrupt fools running in office now? My point of view is people like Billionaire Donald Trump, Michele Bachman or Herman Cain, have straight forward idea to resurrect America from the organized-chaos that is Washington. Rick Perry has a poor thought process on illegal immigration, as he thinks we should graduate to another amnesty. The 1986 Immigration Control and Reform Act didn't work, so another move towards a Congressional bill would be a travesty; played on the American people. The TEA PARTY will return empowerment to the people and each individual State, such as education. It will end strong armed agencies as the (EPA) Environmental Protection Agency that is killing jobs, with too many regulations.

    We need a moratorium on all regulations, to give thousands of companies’ breathing space such as the Coal industry. Coal supplies much of our energy to our communities, but many are closing down because of the immense pressure from regulatory controls. The Department of IN-Justice seems to have the federal courts in their pockets, so immigration laws are carefully engineered to undermine the policing laws enacted in Arizona, Georgia and Alabama. There are millions of
    Americans without jobs that are angry and frustrated with the political ideology, that the government has inept in closing the borders or enforcing immigration laws, but are covering up this fact by going after states who are floundering in unfunded mandates for entitlement payments to illegal aliens and their children. Suddenly Napolitano, Secretary for Homeland Security is pushing for E-Verify? What a quick change of clothes. This is BS! Obama changes his mind from deporting illegal aliens, now it’s going to be discretionary? At least we know that “Secure Communities” is going to be mandatory or is it..?

    Just make it a—FELONY—for entering America, unlawfully. Put them all in Arizona’s Joseph M. Arpaio tent city prison as that will change anybody coming here

    I happened to find this commentary that really sums up the problem with illegal immigration in a website commentary.


    We are persistently told that ILLEGAL ALIENS "are just here to work", but at the same time told that "they only take jobs Americans wouldn't do anyway." Hogwash! The ironic thing is just WHOSE jobs they've actually taken. ILLEGALS now occupy most of the unskilled entry-level jobs that inner-city youths used to start out with. All the Construction, Light Manufacturing, and Agriculture jobs that poorly-educated Blacks (and Whites) used to gravitate to have been taken over by Illegal’s. They have literally crowded out independent Union contractors and craftsmen in the building trades - I personally know two roofers and a drywall’s who each closed their businesses after being continually underbid by unlicensed, non-union Illegal’s. They could not pay all their taxes, insurances, licensing fees, and union dues, and still compete with an Illegal who has no more business overhead than the tools in his toolbox. Illegal’s all work "under the table", so they don't pay ANY of those overhead costs, so they can always afford to underbid a dues-paying, licensed craftsman. I say its "ironic" whose jobs they steal, because two of Mr. Obama's strongest supporters are Blacks and Union members, and they are PRECISELY the two groups his Administration's immigration policies are screwing over the most, all in hopes of bringing in more lifetime Democrats.

    So everybody who cares about America’s economy and future should join their local or the central Tea party. Locate your federal, State and community representative and ask them directly their stance on this very expensive issue, which influences all our taxation.
    MY EARLIER BLOGS: http://brittanicus-enoughisenough.blogspot.com/
    No Copyright. Distribute Freely.

  • vector1369||

    Today, fewer men have jobs than during the depths of the Great Depression. Less than 2/3 of men are employed. Experts point out that men are disproportionately employed in construction and manufacturing. Just like illegal workers, hmmm?

    Additionally, youth employment is under 49%. Maybe there just aren't any entry level fast food or ag jobs available. Sure.

    And illegal workers cause no harm. Do us a favor, Mr. Dalmia, and share some of that strong stuff you must be smoking.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/caree.....sinessweek

    http://www.newsmax.com/US/yout...../id/408710

  • ||

    The "crazy" picture of Bachmann is classy, Ms. Dalmia. Just like Time & Newsweek you go for the lowest common denominator. I guess your argument isn't strong enough.

  • ||

    I don't think the photo's all that crazy.

    I think she's an absurd person, but I'd still hit it.

  • ||

    Illegal alien workers (I used to be one) are often paid in cash under the table and do not pay a cent in tax. This is actually pretty common knowledge in any immigrant communities. It's a tidy arrangment that benefits both the business and the illegal worker.

    If you're an illegal alien who took advatange of education, public transportation and free healthcare (the law allows them access to those) you probably took in more than you gave. There's more to "welfare" than conventional food stamps and unemployment checks. And there's the matter of prisons and the credit cards. Yes, illegals can run up money which they don' have.

    I'm down for some kind of amnesty or guest worker program, which is coming as soon as the new GOP president decides to turn "center". But illegal immigration is not the piece of Americana that's usually depicted here. Most of them don't care crap about this country. They practice BAD habits from the old world while adapting worse ones from their American hosts. They live in the cocoon of their balkanized ethnic zone and frown someone else tries to exert influence. And yes, they would oppose the many good ideas championed by this publication.

  • ||

    Couldn't agree more. Ever step foot in a restaurant, hotel, or take a look at every big shot contractor staff?? The people working there cooking, cleaning and working are probably illegal immigrants. And YES they pay taxes!! Tax money they never get back because they're not allowed to file. There's a reason people in EVERY country think Americans are dumb... Because we are!! We refuse to look at the facts! We are ignorant to the fact that illegal immigrants do the jobs most Americans don't want to do, and that they pay taxes. Why would an American work doing hard labor or doing dishes in a restaurant when they can sit on their behind claiming unemployment??? Also last I checked you needed a social security to be on welfare, so all that talk about the illegals on welfare is rediculous. If they work hard, pay taxes, and speak English they should have the right to be a citizen that's contributing to society. If we want to crack down why don't we drug test the plenty of americans on unemployment, welfare and section 8??

  • ||

    It doesn't surprise me that Bachman made another stupid remark. Anyone considering to run for office making dumb statements like "hurricane Irene" is a blessing already lost my vote. Tell the people that lost their homes that it was a blessing. Michele Bachman is another Sarah palin. A big joke. Go bake a pie or something.

  • john dope||

    I looked at the video, and the audience wasn't laughing, no, that was canned laughter added later.

    Keep those over-achieving assertive ladies out of my sight and in the kitchen where they belong.

  • Brittanicus||

    It’s time to expose hard -core leftist Labor Secretary Hilda Solis, who has taken it upon herself in contracting with foreign countries to pamper illegal aliens. This is outrageous and unconstitutional in signing some formal alliance with diplomats from a group of Latin American nations. Her intent to shelter of what Solis described as the labor rights, for both legal and illegal migrants working unlawfully in America. First President Obama signs into law an unauthorized fiat to preselect only heinous criminal aliens, but other illegal aliens are to be set free, with the possibility of a working visa. Then we have Solis, who interprets as the labor rights for both legal and illegal immigrants working in the U.S. Both Obama and Solis have ignored the US Constitution our “Rule of Law” and gone over the heads of Congress. In a signing ceremony between the Dominican Republic, Costa Rica, and El Salvador and adjoining with Mexico, Nicaragua and Guatemala, who had signed this agreement in the past?

    \This newly revised agreement that U.S. Labor Secretary signed with Latin American nations is supposedly aimed at protecting both legal and illegal workers in this country, by educating employers and workers alike about health, safety, and wage laws. This women needs to get her head on straight, because she is scheming with the open border nuts, and foreign countries contravening against real American workers. Is this why Eric Holder, the Department of IN-Justice tearing at the financial throats of Arizona, Alabama and Georgia to attempt in lowering their defenses, creating pressure on struggling States. Its apparent intent to make other states think twice before employing their own policing laws, in saving these states from insolvency? Pay attention to the fact, if you came to America legally of any religious denomination--if you are Black, White, Hispanic or any other race and undertook the documentation to join our culture; have always been welcome.

    This President and his officials are a humiliating every working American of all occupational levels. Solis promotes illegal immigration, which once the signal goes out will draw into America more foreigners, which taxpayers will be burdened with? We need a president who cares for the American people, the 14 million citizens and residents, with the majority still looking for work. The Labor Department on its website says the (INA.) The Immigration & Nationality Act only protects "U.S. citizens and aliens authorized to accept employment in the U.S. from discrimination in hiring or discharge." Solis seems to have amended INA policy on her own, saying at the signing ceremony Solis stated:

    “No matter how you got here or how long you plan to stay, you have certain rights,” Solis said. “You have the right to be safe and in a healthy workplace and the right to a legal wage. We gather here today to strengthen our shared commitment to protect the labor rights of migrant workers in the United States. Unfortunately, due to language barriers and immigration status, migrant workers can be those that are most vulnerable abused.”

    Illegal Immigration is a spreading contagion, that must be diminished and eventually end as a trickle. In today's NumbersUSA, Eurofresh Inc., the nation’s largest grower of greenhouse tomatoes, last week pleaded guilty to knowingly hiring illegal aliens and was fined $600,000. The Arizona-based company will remain on probation for five years. $ 600.000 is a worthy fine for stealing jobs from Americans, but somebody should go to prison. AS I HAVE CONTINUALLY REPEATED, WHY ISN'T ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION A FELONY AS IN OTHER COUNTRIES? THAT WAY WE COULD CONSTRUCT A JAIL SYSTEM LIKE MARICOPA COUNTY SHERIFFS JOE ARPAIO TENT CITY IN ARIZONA?

    All illegal aliens should be removed from regular jails and prisons and placed in Arizona’s notorious Joseph M. Arpaio canvas city prison and it would change anybody’s mind in illegally coming here. Joe's tent city is an equally opportunity criminal incarceration compound, with high wire fences and attired with razor wire. Hundreds of thousands in jail for Drunken driving killers, child and female attacks, homicides and you name it; Let the Sheriff's Joe's cuisine, for ten years and temperatures reaching 110 degrees under canvas. Millions of illegal aliens from across the borders and tourist over-stay’s, would only be too happy to go home, after living on the daily sustenance of Boloney sandwiches. Arpaio makes the inmates wear pink underwear and the usual critics have complained that it’s a cruel and unusual punishment, though no one can find a law against it. American society should build more of these tent cities for illegal immigrant invaders, in desert areas and make it uncomfortable to stay here. Then make Joe Arpaio as warden to enforce our laws.


    Taking money from taxpayers to support foreigners is downright treasonous and must stop. Giving out $113 Billion a year in entitlements to foreign nationals to pacify the open borders set and the Leftist extremist minority is a disgusting situation must end. That’s why millions of Americans tormented by this financial, moral and legal evidence is joining the conservative TEA PARTY. Under scrutiny are the executive directives Of Eric Holder, so is there another move of Obama’s Liberal soldiers to covertly pass another damaging amnesty as in 1986, the TEA PARTY will be ready to scream “impeachment.” The Tea Party is not growing by the hundreds, but millions and expected to vote into the political arena, even more moderate conservative leaders. Under the TEA PARTY agenda there will be no Amnesties, Sanctuary cities or States, no Dream Acts and no policies that rescind the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control bill. Learn more about the illegal aliens free give-aways, at “NumbersUSA.” Observe more in Democratic and Liberal press concealment of odious criminal cases across the United States at “American Patrol.” Then “Judicial Watch” website is a legally Conservative site that Promotes Integrity, Transparency and Accountability in Government, Politics and the Law, and exposes corruption in Washington. Learn whom can be trusted and who cannot in Congress at “Judicial Watch.” Just type in any browser Search engine any of these pro-sovereignty websites.

  • ||

    Exactly.

  • ||

    Shikha's biweekly screed against those against illegal immigration is really an embarrassment to Reason.

    Now at Reason, we're just denying the principles of supply and demand. Increasing the supply of labor, a supply that is fearful of the law, doesn't suppress wages or working conditions?

    Look, if you want to argue for open borders, do so, but spare us idiotic economics.

  • ||

    Crime decreased in Arizona between 1998 and 2008 because Sheriff Joe started doing his raids for illegals. Trust me. I live here. If it wasn't for Arizona law enforcement in Maricopa County and other counties in the state doing their jobs, we would have a much higher crime rate. You should see how many gangs are springing up in Arizona. Many illegals. I wouldn't exactly call them friendlies if ya know what I mean. :0

  • ||

    I've often wondered why you've chosen to name your magazine and this web site "Reason"; for what is reasonable to you is nothing more than economically driven ideology that flies in the face of others' realities and experiences! Get your collective heads out of the clouds and put your boots on the ground! Take an honest look at what others have experienced regarding open immigration policies. Our Federal government could not find it's backside without a map on so many issues, including endless amnesties, and untraceable aliens; why would you be carrying the Federal government's water on this issue when you clearly disagree with centralized government in most every other arena?
    Not only should workers' visas, student visas etal be drastically curtailed; in my opinion ALL immigration into this country should be put on hold indefinitely until the Federales get a clue regarding how their policies are affecting the country. Additionally, the WH, ICE, Homeland Security, DOJ, and INS had all better be prepared to explain to our natural born citizenry and those who immigrated here LEGALLY, why it's perfectly okay for foreign nationals to slip into this country on a permit...have that permit lapse...and still be able to remain in this country without detection or accountability for their actions!

  • ||

    why would you be carrying the Federal government's water on this issue when you clearly disagree with centralized government in most every other arena?

    Warning! Do not look directly at the irony! Use a pinhole projector or #14 welders glass to avoid permanent eye damage.

  • ||

    HORSE SHIT

  • Amish||

    Good grief. What nonsense. Americans do want to work just not with Mexicans for reduced wages. This is the USA, remember that middle class we had?

    You are only supporting your fellow Latins for your pope's empire Romanizing America. There are plenty of other Catholic countries. USA aint one of' em.

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