Open Thread

What’s on your mind?

Comments

[not guilty]

The New York Times and USA Today have each published detailed analyses of the timeline of the fatal shooting of Alex Pretti by ICE agents in Minneapolis.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/01/24/us/minneapolis-shooting-alex-pretti-timeline.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20260125&instance_id=170082&nl=from-the-times&regi_id=59209117&segment_id=214283&user_id=86ac9094018f7140c62a54a4e93c075f

https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2026/01/24/minneapolis-shooting-video-analysis-alex-pretti/88338183007/?utm_source=usat-DailyBriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-briefing&utm_term=hero&utm_content=8872UT-E-NLETTER02

Under Minnesota law, this was cold blooded, premeditated murder in the first degree. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.185

[bloocow2]

Curious to see what the defence will be on this one.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Negligence on part of the RN in having a round chambered.

[David Nieporent]

That is something you made up and also not a defense.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Throw an accidental discharge and IQ above 12 and you’ll see the problem with your asinine beliefs

[not guilty]

If the shooter is bold/foolish enough to testify that the gun accidentally discharged -- although he is not required to testify at all -- don't be surprised if the jurors check the soles of their shoes to see whether they have stepped in dogshit.

And how would the accused, if he chooses to testify, explain the multiple other gunshots? Were they all accidental discharges?

[Dr. Ed 2]

So now you’re also subverting the United States Supreme Court?

What’s next pulling out the 155 from the National Guard armory and firing on the federal courthouse?!?

Nuke Minneapolis. Level the whole freaking city.

[Frank Drackman]

The whole city???
I'd spare Paisley Park, which is in the Burbs, but the Fallout might put spots on that Raspberry Beret.
You gotta do the Tour (like mulching, you've got to) and spend a few extra Shekels for the "Ultimate Experience"
Instead of just the Main Floors that the Hoi Polloi get access to, for $199 (just $124 more than the "Standard "Paisley Experience" )you get
Exclusive access to Studios A, B, and C.
Private screening of rare video footage in the Paisley Park Editing Suite.
Special audio playback session in the control room of Studio B.
Access to view additional archive items not displayed on other tours for a more in-depth museum experience.
I was disappointed that there was no Little Red Corvette and the Tour Guide didn't appreciate me asking where I could score some Fent-a-nol.

Frank

[Michael P]

As usual, not guilty misunderstands something and gets all huffy in response.

Apparently what happened was that one agent disarmed Pretti, declaring "GUN" at the time, and Pretti's gun unintentionally discharged a short moment later. The other ICE agents believed -- perhaps reasonably -- that Pretti was shooting at them, and returned fire.

[jb]

Is this story based on the same level of evidence as the one MAGAs were telling yesterday in which Pretti himself fired his gun before getting shot?

[Michael P]

Are you any more hinged than Stephen Lathrop questioning that Alex Pretti was armed when he confirmed federal officers?

[jb]

I guess that's a yes, then? Because yesterday and the day before Lex was telling us (and linking to stuff like this to prove it) that Pretti fired his own gun before he was shot.

Personally, I think it's pretty hard to infer a lot from most of the videos I've seen. There's a lot going on, they're grainy, people are blocking the views at various different times. Usually we'd resolve this (over time) with a proper investigation, but as with the Good shooting, the Trump administration seems to have doubled down on its version of the facts without bothering to engage in any real investigation at all.

[Michael P]

No, it's a "you are a typical moron leftoid for demanding I find some rando you are comparing my comment to, and that I then make your argument for you". But thanks for playing.

[jb]

I'm just skeptical of claims promoted by MAGAs in the immediate aftermath of controversial events since they usually turn out to be wrong.

By the way, it seems kind of questionable to yell "GUN!" when you've already recovered it. Isn't that supposed to be a warning to the other officers, not a statement that you've secured the thing?

[myself]

Possible if not for the video where you can see the shooting officer observe the gun being removed, circling the victim, and then opening fire with clear visibility of the victim.

The excuses are getting weaker and weaker.

[Life of Brian]

the video where you can see the shooting officer observe the gun being removed

Link, please? I hadn't yet seen any videos with thought bubbles.

[Riva]

I can see you’re really enjoying this, until it becomes time for democrats to distort and exploit something else, as was done with Gaza, Ukraine, Venezuela, and Greenland (just to name a few). And it also makes a nice distraction from other Democrat abuses and wrongs in the news, like the exposure of Smith’s lawfare and Minnesota (really national) industrial level welfare fraud. But I fully expect a circle back to the Russian collusion fraud by summer. You guys really had a special love for the Russian collusion fraud.

[J_A_H]

Yes yes yes it's a tragedy and a man is dead and perhaps wrongfully so but if we could all just shut up and get back to the really important things like welfare fraud, Riva here would really appreciate it.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The problem is the insurrection. The man is dead because he was an insurrectionist. It’s not that direct a link, but he will be alive today if he hadn’t been one.

The man deserves to be dead — for being stupid.

30 years ago, there were the anti government militias, and after the Oklahoma City bombing, the federal government put an end to them. This is a new incarnation of the militia movement, and the federal government needs to act.

Bondy needs to arrest a few governors and a few state Attorney General’s.

[J_A_H]

If being stupid is a reasonable basis for determining who should be executed by federal agents we all must wonder how it is that you're still alive? Perhaps when you are summarily executed on a street in your city someone can come here and explain to us all why it was that you deserved such a fate.

[MoreCurious]

I'm not sure a man who (1) misspells Bondi, (2) capitalizes the words attorney and general, (3) doesn't know that the plural of attorney general is attorneys general, and (4) sticks a apostrophe before the s in the word generals should be calling anyone else stupid.

[Riva]

Moreover, whatever is happening in Minnesota is not a spontaneous public protest, it is more akin to an organized resistance/insurgency operation.
https://x.com/Schwalm5132/status/2015470661490057540

[David Nieporent]

What is happening in Minnesota is indeed somewhat organized. What that has to do with whether it is a protest remains unexplained.

While the technology used 60 years ago was obviously very different, the Civil Rights Movement also involved (in addition to spontaneous action at times) organized groups that conducted training, had top-down leadership directing protest activities, and strategized the who-what-when-where-and-why of protests. So what?

it is not in fact in any way akin to an "insurgency operation," which is why there are roughly 4,400 fewer U.S. troop deaths in Minneapolis than there were in Iraq.

[Dr. Ed 2]

.

[jay.tee]

Dr. Ed, carrying with a round chambered is definitely not negligence. IMO, and that of most self-defense experts, it’s moronic not to: if you’re in danger sufficiently grave to need to draw your weapon, you don’t have time to rack the slide before you’re injured or killed.

[Baseballhead]

It's always some variation of "if she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have worn that skirt."

[bloocow2]

Ahhhhh, so he was carrying a gun on his person. Which they took off him, and then shot him 10 times just to make sure. Seems reasonable.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It very much is if his gun went bang as they were taking possession of it.

The first shot a 10th of a second after they took possession of the gun absolutely is consistent with an accidental discharge. A fuselage of shots after a brief pause absolutely is consistent with another officer responding to his training and believing that it was the purpose who fired.

This is like the distinction between the brakes failing on a police car and a police officer deliberately running over a child. Both are tragic, but there’s a hell of a lot of difference between the two!

And while anything is theoretically possible, it’s damn hard for an accidental discharge to happen if you haven’t already chambered a round. For those not familiar with guns, you have bullets in the clip, but to fire the gun you have to manually move one from there into the gun itself before it will fire, and most people don’t go around with round chamber. It’s just asking for trouble.

[Baseballhead]

"It very much is if his gun went bang as they were taking possession of it."

Why were they taking possession of it? He had a license to carry, and he didn't draw his weapon. They took it from him, it went off in their hands, and then they shot him because...?

"It’s just asking for trouble." == "She was asking for it." You just can't help but talk like a rapist. Birds of a feather, I guess.

[bloocow2]

Perhaps his gun didn't go bang. Perhaps they made it go bang to give them an excuse to shoot the guy multiple times. Or perhaps it was an accident.

Sure seems like the sort of thing that people might want to investigate, huh? Wonder if that will happen.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Perhaps it was Jewish space lasers.

Saying a Jewish space laser hit an icicle which exploded, as a rapidly heated icicle would, and sounded just like a gunshot. That’s no more asinine than what you’re proposing.

Could I believe that some rogue police officers conspire to murder him and took him out to some remote area and killed him? Yes, I could — and sadly, things like that have happened. BUT THEY DON’T KILL THE PERSON IN BROAD DAYLIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF HUNDREDS OF WITNESSES…..

Jewish space lasers are actually more believable — and as I have said before, I would dearly love to know how the Israeli’s are supposed to be able to produce and or store the vast amount of energy that would be needed to power an orbiting laser with the power to do any damage on the ground.

[Dr. Ed 2]

They were arresting him for the felony of interfering with federal law enforcement, which is a crime

[Martinned]

Interfering how?

[MarkJawz]

Don't be obtuse.

[Baseballhead]

Some guy DIDN'T pull a weapon, and took a bunch of bullets in the back. He wasn't trying to fellate the ICE agent the way you would have been, but most people wouldn't consider that interference.

[Baseballhead]

We've all seen the video. "Interfering with federal law enforcement" is an embarrassing lie, but the Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears, and so you do.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If he had instead robbed a bank, a crime of aboutthe same magnitude, would they let him keep his gun or would they arrest him?

[Martinned]

Interfering how?

[Joe_dallas]

Martinned 1 hour ago
"Interfering how?"

As usual - A stupid question

[Martinned]

Then it should be easy to answer.

[grb]

Joe_dallas : "As usual - A stupid question"

Brainless response as usual, Joe: Just watch the video. Hell, even the editors of the National Review know that "Interfering" bullshit can't survive a single viewing. Here's their description:

"Although there is much still to learn about the incident, Pretti was armed and got gang-tackled by agents after he tried to assist a woman shoved by an officer. In the midst of the melee — in the very instant after another agent had disarmed Pretti — an officer opened fire."

https://www.nationalreview.com/2026/01/reeling-minnesota/

[Joe_dallas]

Martinned 26 minutes ago
"Then it should be easy to answer"

Yes it is easy answer - which is obviously more proof that you dont care about the facts.

[Baseballhead]

The answer is so easy and obvious, if you admitted to it, even you would have to change your idiot stance.

[Joe_dallas]

grb , martineed, Baseball

Yes martineed asked an extremely stupid question

GRB - your response demonstrates far greater stupidity than one would expect from a delusional leftist.

Baseball - your response likewise demonstrates common leftist delusions.

[Baseballhead]

We all watched the same videos. The party told you to reject them. You obey.

Good dog.

[grb]

The New York Times writes:

"The administration is urging Americans to reject the evidence of their eyes and ears. Ms. Noem and Mr. Bovino are lying in defiance of obvious truths. They are lying in the manner of authoritarian regimes that require people to accept lies as a demonstration of power."

[Joe_dallas]

Baseballhead 49 minutes ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
We all watched the same videos. The party told you to reject them.

Baseball - Did you watch the video?

you still dont know what laws Pretti was violating
Proving again the shallow stupidity of leftists !

[Joe_dallas]

yes he had license to carry

but omitted from your comment -
Under MN law the person with the carry license is required to have that license with him when he is carrying. Not only did he not have the carry license on his possession, he had not other form of ID.

Also omitted from your comment -
He was an active member of the local ICE resistance group.
He had a laser optical sight (red dot) attached to the gun.
He was actively involved in interfering with lawful federal law enforcement.

[Martinned]

Ausweis, bitte!

[Frank Drackman]

Leck mich, bitte!!

[Baseballhead]

Did the arresting officers ask to see that license, or other forms of ID? Oh, they just shot him in back a few times? The post hoc excuses are pathetic. ICE shot a guy, who wasn't doing anything wrong, in the back a bunch of times. You're just into it.

[Joe_dallas]

"who wasn't doing anything wrong,"

yea right -

[jb]

Oh, THAT's why all those ICE guys jumped on top of him--they were demanding to see his carry license.

"Show me your license! Show me your license!"
"I don't have it with me"
"Well in that case: BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM"

Seems a bit plausible, sadly. Maybe Joe is onto something this time.

[John F. Carr]

Disarming somebody who is being detained is standard procedure. Police can also search a person getting a ride in a cruiser for non-criminal purposes.

See also: "stop and frisk".

[David Nieporent]

fuselage of shots

As numerous people have pointed out to you, airplanes have nothing to do with the discussion. The word you are looking for is fusillade.

[not guilty]

Under Minnesota law, multiple gunshots are indicative of premeditation. State v. Cooper, 561 N.W.2d 175 (Minn. 1997)., https://www.casemine.com/commentary/us/premeditation-and-intent-in-first-degree-murder:-analysis-of-state-v.-cooper/view

[MarkJawz]

Minnesota law is irrelevant here.

[not guilty]

No, state law is not "irrelevant" at all. The great bulk of homicide prosecutions occur in state courts. Federal law enforcement officers do not enjoy blanket immunity from prosecution from state law violations.

It may be that a federal officer can remove a prosecution to federal district court, but it remains a criminal prosecution by state officials for violation of state law. The only practical difference is that prospective jurors may be selected from a broader geographic venire.

[MarkJawz]

And they also get to claim immunity if done in the pursuit of their job duties. What you say is not the only difference, and you know it.

[J_A_H]

If he had committed the very serious actual crime of robbing a bank, rather than the made up crime you have assigned to him he might also have had wings and flown off. But, taking your hypothetical seriously for a moment just for a lark, in this country we don't generally tolerate the murder by police of suspected criminals. See, generally, George Floyd etc. And if he was suspected of a real crime the response would have come from real, professional, competent police who probably wouldn't shit their pants and kill a man because they can't handle a weapon properly or maintain a reasonable baseline understanding of what's happening around them.

You're defending not just murder but incompetence and doing it with a lengthy series of whataboutisms that have no basis in reality. Whatever authoritarian regime pays you for the shit you spew isnt getting their money's worth today.

[J_A_H]

They get to claim immunity in the *reasonable* pursuit of the job duties. Making the standard of what a reasonable person would be required by the law to do in that circumstance quite relevant. Ice don't get immunity just because they were on duty. They can and should be prosecuted by the state under state law.

[not guilty]

No, MarkJawz, they don't get to claim blanket immunity from criminal prosecution by either the state or the federal government. SCOTUS has opined:

"Under our federal system, it goes without saying that preventing and dealing with crime is much more the business of the States than it is of the Federal Government. Because the regulation of crime is preeminently a matter for the States, we have identified a strong judicial policy against federal interference with state criminal proceedings.”

Mesa v. California, 489 U.S. 121, 138 (1989), quoting Arizona v. Manypenny, 451 U.S. 232, 243 (1981).

The execrable doctrine of "qualified immunity" applies only to civil damages actions.

United States Courts of Appeals in the Second, Sixth, Ninth and Tenth Circuits have held that a federal officer is not entitled to Supremacy Clause immunity unless, in the course of performing an act which he is authorized to do under federal law, the agent had an objectively reasonable and well-founded basis to believe that his actions were necessary to fulfill his duties. See, Wyoming v. Livingston, 443 F.3d 1211 (10th Cir. 2006) and cases cited therein.

If one or more shooters here are indicted in state court, they will no doubt remove the case to the federal court for the District of Minnesota pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1442(a)(1). The removal statutes provides that “[i]f the United States district court does not order the summary remand of [a criminal] prosecution, it shall order an evidentiary hearing to be held promptly and after such hearing shall make such disposition of the prosecution as justice shall require.”  28 U.S.C. § 1455(b)(5).

In order for removal under § 1442(a)(1) to be appropriate, a federal officer (or someone acting under him) must not only show that he is being prosecuted for the manner in which he carried out his federal duties, but must also demonstrate that there exists a colorable federal defense for the act. See, Mesa, supra, 489 U.S. at 139.

In United States ex rel. Drury v. Lewis, 200 U.S. 1 (1906), two service members were indicted for murder and manslaughter in the killing of a suspect whom they were attempting to arrest in order to turn him over to federal authorities. A factual dispute about whether the suspect was trying to escape arrest or instead had surrendered. That factual dispute precluded the federal courts from granting habeas corpus relief. SCOTUS there opined:

The Circuit Court was not called on to determine the guilt or innocence of the accused. That was for the state court if it had jurisdiction, and this the state court had, even though it was petitioners' duty to pursue and arrest Crowley (assuming that he had stolen pieces of copper), if the question of Crowley being a fleeing felon was open to dispute on the evidence; that is, if that were the gist of the case, it was for the state court to pass upon it, and its doing so could not be collaterally attacked. The assertion that Crowley was resisting arrest and in flight when shot was matter of defense, and Ex parte Crouch, 112 U.S. 178, is in point.

200 U.S. at 8.

So it is here. Whether the ICE officers used unreasonable force in their fatal encounter with Mr. Pretti so as to commit murder or some other degree of homicide presents a jury question which may or may not be removable to federal court. If so, it is for jurors in federal court to determine according to Minnesota law.

[Michael P]

The dicta in that decision incorrectly summarized precedent. For example, State v. Buchanan more reasonably stated that "where first shots are followed by a pause and second shots, an inference of premeditation is proper".

[Bwaaah]

[Bwaaah]

NG: "Under Minnesota law, multiple gunshots are indicative of premeditation."

No. They may be indicative of premeditation. From that very same case here:

Multiple gunshots are indicative of premeditation and, while a mere series of shots or blows may not, in itself, be sufficient to justify a finding of premeditation, we have stated that a long and severe attack may be enough.

The events in the case NG cited were *much* more protracted in timing than this case. NG had to edit out the essential wording of his underlying citation, and its expressed mitigating factor, in order to advance his FALSE assertion of Minnesota law.

My only point is that NG is not acting as a helpful source of law, as one might seek in, for example, a law professor, but as a highly motivated advocate who doesn't mind a level of deceit he thinks he can get away with.

[Joe_dallas]

usualful legal analysis for facts not in existence.

[Bwaaah]

Technical correction of my argument: multiple gunshots are indicative but not by themselves proof or dispositive of premeditation. NG's phrasing was very simply and intentionally misleading.

[Michael P]

To be fair to not guilty, he probably read only the first six words of that sentence. And to continue to be fair, he probably thought that was enough, in spite of common sense, general precedent from other courts, and the rest of the sentence.

[not guilty]

Multiple gunshots are a circumstance from which a jury may infer premeditation. I never suggested that that fact or any other, taken in isolation, is dispositive.

Refusal to render aid to the suspect after the shooting is a circumstance from which a jury may infer intent to kill.

Whether those essential elements can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt remains to be seen, but resolving disputed facts such as these is a reason that we build courthouses and empanel juries.

[Michael P]

Multiple gunshots are a circumstance from which a jury may infer premeditation.

The very source you cited says that's not sufficient to infer premeditation. In that case, one shooter hit the decedent 12 times, mostly in the legs and hips/buttocks -- from which a trier of fact could infer that a number of the shots were fired as the decedent was crawling away. That is trivially distinguished from the instant case, where all the shots were fired in a very short span of time, and apparently by multiple people.

[Joe_dallas]

NG - It gets old when you repetitively get the facts wrong

[Life of Brian]

Under Minnesota law, multiple gunshots are indicative of premeditation.

Given your extensive background in criminal law and propensity for careful and thoughtful reading of your sources, I'm hard-pressed to fathom how you managed to overlook the rather crucial facts that 1) LEOs are trained to continue firing until the threat is confirmed to be neutralized; and 2) the shooter in the case you cited was a private citizen.

[Joe_dallas]

I am not hard pressed to understand why NG overlooked crucial facts and the applicable law that applies to those facts.

[MarkJawz]

That's completely false that most people don't go around with a round chambered. Carrying without a round chambered is a good way to get yourself killed, as unless you're very skilled, you'll need two hands and an extra second or two in a defensive situation.

[Frank Drackman]

That's why I mostly carry revolvers.
You've always got one "In the Chamber" and the only "Safety" is the Nut behind the Trigger.
Oh, I've got some Semi Autos, 2 Beretta 92's (one that I put an "M9" Slide on, no difference, but it looks Cool with the "US M9" and it doesn't have the ridiculous "WARNING! THIS GUN CAN KILL PEOPLE!! BE CAREFUL!!!" on it, a few CZ75's, (BD, and the "Police" model) Remington R1, a Springfield 1911, a Tokarov 7.62 x 25 "Liberated" from an Iraqi Soldier (not by me, by a Corpse-man, who I paid a few hundred Shekels for when we got back), and probably my favorite, an East German Makarov, everyone says the Stassi used them, but most were carried by your garden variety Polizisten.
Oh, and the Monster, the one I'll bring out when the Zombies show up?
CZ 97, in 45 ACP

Frank

[MarkJawz]

The 1911 is pretty, but I'd rather have a semi-auto with a 17 round mag. Your six shooter isn't going to protect you if you get attacked by a gang of schvartzes.

[Frank Drackman]

Are you kidding? Schwarzes take one look at my 2.5 Inches (my Revolver, not my Thang) and do the OJ catching the 9:15 flight to Vegas. For the Ed's in the Conspiracy, before he committed multiple murders OJ did these Hertz Commercials where he would Broken-Field Run through LAX.
Nothing like the Business end of a S&W 19 (I know Blue Steel can rust, but it just looks so much more E-ville than Stainless or Nickle) in your face to make one see the foolishness of their life choices.
And like with the CZ-97 if you run out of Bull-Wets (HT E. Fudd) Revolvers can serve as a pretty good Club. (The Head bashing kind, not securing your car from theft)

Frank

[jay.tee]

MarkJawz, your comment is complete bunk.

Carrying without a round chambered will get you killed if you actually need to defend yourself. It just gives your attacker more time to maim or kill you while you attempt to rack the slide.

[MarkJawz]

Reading is fundamental

[jay.tee]

As is possessing a modicum of knowledge before you post.

[ThePublius]

"For those not familiar with guns, you have bullets in the clip, but to fire the gun you have to manually move one from there into the gun itself before it will fire, and most people don’t go around with round chamber. It’s just asking for trouble."

1. Please don't say 'clip,' it's 'magazine;'
2. yes, most smart, trained firearm carriers carry with a round chambered, conditon 1, per Jeff Cooper's definitions. [1] Otherwise you are not ready to fire. If you carry condition 3, so-called 'Israeli carry,' you're likely to get killed before you can rack a round into the chamber.

[1] The Five Conditions of Readiness
Condition 0: Round in chamber, hammer cocked, safety off. The weapon is ready to fire immediately.
Condition 1 ("Cocked and Locked"): Round in chamber, hammer cocked, safety engaged. Common for 1911-style pistols.
Condition 2: Round in chamber, hammer down (decocked). Common for DA/SA (Double Action/Single Action) pistols.
Condition 3 ("Israeli Carry"): Empty chamber, full magazine inserted. Requires racking the slide to fire.
Condition 4: Completely empty chamber, no magazine inserted, hammer down. Used for storage or transport.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Could the idiot have been stupid enough to be carrying in condition zero?

I’ve learned to never underestimate just how stupid some people can be, and while I’m thinking condition one with a defective safety, which is what the 100+ lawsuits are about, it would not surprise me if some idiot with more money than brains was carrying condition zero and the weapon tucked into his back waistband.

That, my friends, is worthy of a Darwin award.

[jay.tee]

Could the idiot have been stupid enough to be carrying in condition zero?

Just stop. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about and are desperately looking for any angle to smear Pretti.

The Sig P320 platform is a striker-fired pistol. The vast majority of P320 models do not have a manual safety. Common practice is to carry striker-fired pistols cocked with a round chambered. It is not a stupid practice unless you can’t keep your finger off the trigger, in which case you shouldn’t be carrying at all.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I knew an O-6 who would have vehemently disagreed with you.

He had been places I hadn’t been and had done things I hadn’t done, I’ll go with his judgment, thank you very much.

[jay.tee]

No matter how wrong, it’s your and your mythical O-6’s right to believe that, of course. I sincerely hope it never bites you in the ass.

[myself]

I mean it's a lot safer than shooting at someone who is armed.

[Commenter_XY]

More like, why on earth are you bringing a concealed, loaded weapon where LEOs are performing their job duties. That is just plain stupid.

And btw, just who is Pretti 'protecting'? Yeah, some scumbag illegal alien with a rap sheet. How moral is that?

We already know how stupid it is.

[not guilty]

"More like, why on earth are you bringing a concealed, loaded weapon where LEOs are performing their job duties. That is just plain stupid.?

How does blaming the victim there mitigate the ICE officers' guilt?

Alex Pretti was where he had a right to be, bearing an open carry weapon pursuant to a carry permit (which he never attempted to use).

Have you parsed the relevant Minnesota statutes, XY?

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.18

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.066

There is no defense here.

[Stephen Lathrop]

So far, I have not seen evidence that Pretti brought a weapon. In footage prior to the shooting I do not see any bulge in his somewhat form-fitting garments.

During the melee I see a person with a very loose fitting gray coat force his way in, and without being able to see what happened inside the scrum, note that the gray coat guy withdraws both his hands from out of sight while holding a weapon in one of them. The posture and gate of that person looks to me like someone abruptly fleeing his previous involvement.

From those observations, I cannot tell what to conclude about how that gun got into that melee.

I am surprised that so many, including apparently news reporters, have allowed themselves to say the gun was taken from Pretti. I note that interpretation is consistent with an assertion from government authorities, and perhaps reliant on that assertion.

Without more evidence to show that anyone knew previously that Pretti owned that particular gun, I want to withhold judgment.

If such evidence exists, then an inference Pretti brought it to the scene is reasonable, and likely accurate. If no such evidence exists, the footage and account about a gun taken from Pretti remain inconclusive.

[Dr. Ed 2]

If it was not his gun, don’t you think someone would’ve said that by now?

[not guilty]

The deceased was (lawfully) carrying a handgun openly, not concealed.

[Stephen Lathrop]

The deceased was (lawfully) carrying a handgun openly, not concealed.

not guilty — I must have missed that in the videos. Can you provide a link which shows the gun? I doubt only that I have seen the correct video.

[Kenneth Almquist]

In the video linked below, we get a 360 degree view of Petti between 12.1 and 15.1, and he’s not carrying a weapon in a holster outside of his clothing. Between 13.2 and 13.4, we can see that he has an open pocket in the front of his jacket which would be a convenient location to carry a handgun, but you would have to be closer, and positioned just so, to be able to look into the pocket and see what was in it. I’m guessing that the pocket contains something; otherwise the opening would be smaller.

Bottom line: Not openly carrying, but quite possibly concealed carrying, which he had a permit to do. Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch

[Sarcastr0]

Will we ever see the body cam footage?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dhs-says-body-worn-camera-video-fatal-shooting-alex-pretti-rcna255978
Alex Pretti's killing was recorded on body-camera videos, DHS says
Investigators are reviewing videos of the shooting from multiple angles, a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson told NBC News.

[ThePublius]

"So far, I have not seen evidence that Pretti brought a weapon. In footage prior to the shooting I do not see any bulge in his somewhat form-fitting garments."

Talk about sowing some whaky conspiracy theories! Holy cow.

[Stephen Lathrop]

ThePublius — They would be conspiracy theories, if I had asserted them. The mere possibility that a LEO might plant a gun is not even controversial. It happens. I avoided saying there was evidence to prove it happened in this instance, and withheld judgment.

You should learn to do likewise. But if, like not guilty, you assert a link to evidence showing Pretti with a gun, please point me to it so I can direct my attention to other concerns.

[ThePublius]

Did you see in the video where the agent takes the gun off of him? Has anyone else on God's green earth alleged that the gun was planted? Anyone?

[Stephen Lathrop]

ThePublius — I have not alleged the gun was planted.

I have said forthrightly that as far as I know, no one has published evidence of Pretti with any gun, there, and then. If the presence of the gun is to be considered a factor to judge the reasonableness of killing Pretti, and the only evidence we have that a gun was present comes from his killers, then the absence of evidence from anyone else begins to look like evidence in its own way. Especially if clear images of Pretti taken moments before he was killed show no evidence of a gun he is said to have carried openly at that time and place.

Unfortunately, the organization the killers are a part of has been caught lying time and again, and has often been caught acting with obvious disregard for human decency. That makes it folly to afford them deference for any unsupported self-serving claim they make.

[darkknight9]

posture and gait?

[Stephen Lathrop]

Of course, "gait,"

[Joe_dallas]

NG - a reasonable assessment is that Pretti went to the event to cause trouble.

[Malika la Maize]

Wow, so it’s going to be “he should have known better to act within his second amendment rights?”

[Sarcastr0]

That alien with a rap sheet, as DMN pointed out yesterday, was made up.

You might need to recalibrate the hate you are using to excuse this killing.
Maybe Lex has some tips. You guys are chums these days.

[David Nieporent]

More like, why on earth are you bringing a concealed, loaded weapon where LEOs are performing their job duties. That is just plain stupid.

Why on earth wouldn't he? The whole point of having a carry permit is to enable one to carry one's firearm at all times. It doesn't have much utility if it's left at home.

Why not ask why on earth the agents had weapons? There are two fewer citizens in Minnesota who would be dead if agents were required to be disarmed.

And btw, just who is Pretti 'protecting'?

A woman there who had been assaulted.

Yeah, some scumbag illegal alien with a rap sheet. How moral is that?

How moral is it for you to lie? Not very. There was no "rap sheet." Some minor traffic offenses from a decade ago, nothing more.

[MarkJawz]

She was not assaulted.

[Stephen Lathrop]

MarkJawz — A stupid assertion, with probative evidence on tape. Why present yourself as stupid on purpose. What is your reason to do it?

[Martinned]

To show loyalty to the Great Leader, obviously. The notion that the truth matters must be rejected wherever it arises, so that the US can develop into the great fascist state MarkJawz wants it to be.

[MarkJawz]

The police, carrying out lawful missions, cannot "assault" people by definition.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Or, put differently, police who assault people without justification are not carrying out lawful missions. Tell me what you saw on the tapes which makes violently shoving that woman down a justifiable law enforcement action.

[MarkJawz]

She was in the way of an arrest. Arresting her is lawful.

[ThePublius]

She was intentionally blocking a law enforcement vehicle and refused an order to get out of the way, so an officer shoved her out of the way. Got it?

[Stephen Lathrop]

The Publius — You omitted to explain the assault, Why not just a verbal order? And by the way, did the vehicle display official insignia, or anything to tell that woman, or even you, that it was anything but a parked civilian vehicle?

Please do not omit to answer all the questions, lest I misunderstand your intentions, and take you for someone trying to justify unlawful violence by law enforcement authorities.

[MarkJawz]

Verbal orders don't do any good with female agitators, as they know they'll ignore it.

[David Nieporent]

The police, carrying out lawful missions, cannot "assault" people by definition.

There is no such "definition." The use of a reasonable amount of force to make an arrest or otherwise do one's job is privileged, but by definition an unreasonable amount of force is criminal. Assault, or homicide if the victim dies. All one has to do is google "police officer convicted of assault" to find hundreds of such cases.

Here's one from last year. Derek Chauvin would be an obvious example from the same locale as where this occurred.

[MarkJawz]

And the amount of force used against the woman was objectively reasonable. But even if it wasn't, a third party doesn't get to intervene, based on his determination of reasonableness.

[Riva]

Why was he there on the scene at all? Likely because he was an (paid?) agitator trying to provoke chaos. And now we have the usual suspects dialing it up to 11.

[MarkJawz]

Let's ask Soros, his son, and his Muslim daughter-in-law, the one that Soros Jr. took in after Anthony Weiner finished dumping loads into her.

[Martinned]

Woof, woof!

[jb]

"More like, why on earth are you bringing a concealed, loaded weapon where LEOs are performing their job duties. That is just plain stupid."

Wow, the Second Amendment you guys love so much does not seem like it's that useful if it becomes inoperative the moment there are police nearby. I thought one of the point of the 2A was for citizens to have the means to resist government tyranny. How would that work if the government is justified in shooting you for no reason other than carrying a gun?

[bernard11]

Yeah, some scumbag illegal alien with a rap sheet. How moral is that?

Very moral, you blithering bigot.

You have no idea whether the individual was an illegal alien, or even an alien, or whether they had a rap sheet. Probably the ICE thug didn't either.

So just STFU with your smug, stupid, malicious comments.

[Commenter_XY]

NG, not to puncture your balloon, but are you as sure of this as you were of Trump v Anderson?

There is no case for 1st degree murder to be brought. What we have here is very bad judgment by Pretti (who paid the price for his stupidity). It is a fatal misjudgment to impede, obstruct or threaten an LEO performing their job duties.

Put another way: Play stupid games, and win the Darwin Award.

[not guilty]

My predictions as to Trump v. Anderson, 601 U.S. 100 (2024), were based on then-existing law, before Chief Justice Whoreberts and his fellow black robed wardheelers changed the rules of the game.

[Riva]

The quality of your analysis in a nutshell.

[not guilty]

Premeditated murder is a common law offense, and in the United States, is traditionally an exercise of the states' police power. Minnesota Statutes § 609.185 provides in relevant part:

MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE.
(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:

(1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;</blockquote

Minnesota Statutes § 609.18 provides that "For the purposes of sections 609.185, 609.19, 609.2661, and 609.2662, 'premeditation' means to consider, plan or prepare for, or determine to commit, the act referred to prior to its commission."

State v. Flores, 418 N.W.2d 150 (1988), construed the premeditation requirement. The Court there emphasized that premeditation involves any level of planning or consideration, even if momentary. The instruction that premeditation can be "formed at any time, moment or instant before the killing" was deemed consistent with established law, negating Flores' argument that the instruction was misleading or incorrect -- reinforcing that premeditation can be inferred from actions that demonstrate any level of planning, even if brief, thereby broadening the scope for prosecutorial arguments in murder cases. https://www.casemine.com/commentary/us/state-v.-ramon-flores:-clarifying-premeditation-and-intoxication-defenses-in-first-degree-murder/view

The interim between the time that Mr. Pretti was disarmed, while he was lying prone on the sidewalk, and the firing of the fatal shots provided ample time for the ICE officers to form a premeditated design to shoot him to death.

Minnesota Statutes § 609.066 defines the circumstances under which a peace officer is authorized to use deadly force. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.066 Per subdivision 1, "The intentional discharge of a firearm, other than a firearm loaded with less lethal munitions and used by a peace officer within the scope of official duties, in the direction of another person, or at a vehicle in which another person is believed to be, constitutes deadly force."

Subdivision 2 states:

Use of deadly force. (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 609.06 or 609.065, the use of deadly force by a peace officer in the line of duty is justified only if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that such force is necessary:

(1) to protect the peace officer or another from death or great bodily harm, provided that the threat:

(i) can be articulated with specificity;

(ii) is reasonably likely to occur absent action by the law enforcement officer; and

(iii) must be addressed through the use of deadly force without unreasonable delay; or

(2) to effect the arrest or capture, or prevent the escape, of a person whom the peace officer knows or has reasonable grounds to believe has committed or attempted to commit a felony and the officer reasonably believes that the person will cause death or great bodily harm to another person under the threat criteria in clause (1), items (i) to (iii), unless immediately apprehended.

(b) A peace officer shall not use deadly force against a person based on the danger the person poses to self if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that the person does not pose a threat of death or great bodily harm to the peace officer or to another under the threat criteria in paragraph (a), clause (1), items (i) to (iii).

When Mr. Pretti was shot to death while lying prone on the sidewalk, he presented a present threat to absolutely no one.

IOW, XY, your ipse dixit assertion that "There is no case for 1st degree murder to be brought" means jack shit. Statutes matter. You should be ashamed of your MAGA influenced bloodlust.

[not guilty]

My edit fouled up the formatting. The correct formatting there should be:

Premeditated murder is a common law offense, and in the United States, is traditionally an exercise of the states' police power. Minnesota Statutes § 609.185 provides in relevant part:

MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE
(a) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of murder in the first degree and shall be sentenced to imprisonment for life:

(1) causes the death of a human being with premeditation and with intent to effect the death of the person or of another;

Minnesota Statutes § 609.18 provides that "For the purposes of sections 609.185, 609.19, 609.2661, and 609.2662, 'premeditation' means to consider, plan or prepare for, or determine to commit, the act referred to prior to its commission."

State v. Flores, 418 N.W.2d 150 (1988), construed the premeditation requirement. The Court there emphasized that premeditation involves any level of planning or consideration, even if momentary. The instruction that premeditation can be "formed at any time, moment or instant before the killing" was deemed consistent with established law, negating Flores' argument that the instruction was misleading or incorrect -- reinforcing that premeditation can be inferred from actions that demonstrate any level of planning, even if brief, thereby broadening the scope for prosecutorial arguments in murder cases. https://www.casemine.com/commentary/us/state-v.-ramon-flores:-clarifying-premeditation-and-intoxication-defenses-in-first-degree-murder/view

The interim between the time that Mr. Pretti was disarmed, while he was lying prone on the sidewalk, and the firing of the fatal shots provided ample time for the ICE officers to form a premeditated design to shoot him to death.

Minnesota Statutes § 609.066 defines the circumstances under which a peace officer is authorized to use deadly force. https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.066 Per subdivision 1, "The intentional discharge of a firearm, other than a firearm loaded with less lethal munitions and used by a peace officer within the scope of official duties, in the direction of another person, or at a vehicle in which another person is believed to be, constitutes deadly force."

Subdivision 2 states:

Use of deadly force. (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 609.06 or 609.065, the use of deadly force by a peace officer in the line of duty is justified only if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that such force is necessary:

(1) to protect the peace officer or another from death or great bodily harm, provided that the threat:

(i) can be articulated with specificity;

(ii) is reasonably likely to occur absent action by the law enforcement officer; and

(iii) must be addressed through the use of deadly force without unreasonable delay; or

(2) to effect the arrest or capture, or prevent the escape, of a person whom the peace officer knows or has reasonable grounds to believe has committed or attempted to commit a felony and the officer reasonably believes that the person will cause death or great bodily harm to another person under the threat criteria in clause (1), items (i) to (iii), unless immediately apprehended.

(b) A peace officer shall not use deadly force against a person based on the danger the person poses to self if an objectively reasonable officer would believe, based on the totality of the circumstances known to the officer at the time and without the benefit of hindsight, that the person does not pose a threat of death or great bodily harm to the peace officer or to another under the threat criteria in paragraph (a), clause (1), items (i) to (iii).

When Mr. Pretti was shot to death while lying prone on the sidewalk, he presented a present threat to absolutely no one.

IOW, XY, your ipse dixit assertion that "There is no case for 1st degree murder to be brought" means jack shit. Statutes matter. You should be ashamed of your MAGA influenced bloodlust.

[Joe_dallas]

Ng
Another Great legal analysis Based on facts that dont exist

[Frank Drackman]

I got my Boy Scout "Rifle and Shotgun Shooting" Merit Badge.
Part of it was shooting a certain score from the "Prone" position.
It's the position that Poof in Utah shot Charlie Kirk (His name is Charlie Kirk) from.
Seriously, why don't you post on something you know about, like sucking (Redacted)

Frank

[not guilty]

Mr. Pretti had already been disarmed, doofus.

[MarkJawz]

Which the second officer was not aware of.

It can be a bad situation all around but that doesn't mean criminality on the part of the officer who fired the shots.

[Frank Drackman]

Nurse Pretti went looking for a fight, he got one. Like I said, you're the ones who keep saying the ICE Agents are Fat Stupid Rednecks, then get all outraged when they respond. I hope all you Fucks start carrying Guns to Protests, we're better shots than you are.
OK, Tyler got off a good shot, (although not a difficult one by any means) so there are exceptions.

Frank

[Stephen Lathrop]

Aside from a presumption based on a gun license, where do you see evidence that Pretti was ever armed during this encounter. What evidence exists that can show a gun in Pretti's possession at the time and place he was killed?

[Frank Drackman]

Well he certainly had some bullets.
Unfortunately for Nurse Pretti, they were in his body.

Frank

[Dr. Ed 2]

Nuke Minneapolis.

[Dr. Ed 2]

IT IS WHAT THE AVERAGE OFFICER UNDER SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD CONCLUDE. THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT HAS SAID SO!

[not guilty]

What United States Supreme Court decision do you refer to?

"[T]here can be no question that apprehension by the use of deadly force is a seizure subject to the reasonableness requirement of the Fourth Amendment." Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985). Proper application of the Fourth Amendment reasonableness in a deadly force case requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight. See id., at 8-9 (the question is "whether the totality of the circumstances justifie[s] a particular sort of. . . seizure"); Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386, 396 (1989).

A ctrl-f search shows that the phrase "average officer" appears nowhere in either Garner nor in Graham. The Court in Graham opined:

Today we make explicit what was implicit in Garner's analysis, and hold that all claims that law enforcement officers have used excessive force -- deadly or not -- in the course of an arrest, investigatory stop, or other "seizure" of a free citizen should be analyzed under the Fourth Amendment and its "reasonableness" standard, rather than under a "substantive due process" approach.

490 U.S. at 305. The Court there elaborated:

As in other Fourth Amendment contexts, however, the "reasonableness" inquiry in an excessive force case is an objective one: the question is whether the officers' actions are "objectively reasonable" in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them, without regard to their underlying intent or motivation. See Scott v. United States, 436 U. S. 128, 436 U.S. 137-139 (1978); see also Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. [1,] 21 [(1968)] (in analyzing the reasonableness of a particular search or seizure, "it is imperative that the facts be judged against an objective standard"). An officer's evil intentions will not make a Fourth Amendment violation out of an objectively reasonable use of force; nor will an officer's good intentions make an objectively unreasonable use of force constitutional. See Scott v. United States, supra, at 436 U.S. 138, citing United States v. Robinson, 414 U. S. 218 (1973).

Applying the Garner/Graham factors to what has been publicly reported here, a jury could reasonably find that if Mr. Pretti committed any crime at all, the severity thereof was minimal. The jury could reasonably find that, after he had been pepper sprayed, subdued by a gaggle of officers and disarmed, Mr. Pretti posed no threat whatsoever to the safety of the officers or others, and that he was not actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight.

Resolving disputes like the instant matter is one reason that our society builds courthouses and empanels juries.

[Michael P]

Someone forcefully resisting arrest is not "lying prone on the sidewalk". He might have been lying, but lying down implies a degree of passivity.

When you cannot even get the basic facts right, you cast into doubt everything else you write.

[not guilty]

The decedent, at the time the fatal shots were fired, was not in any manner "forcefully resisting arrest". He had been subdued by multiple officers with pepper spray and disarmed by an officer who backed away from the scene before firing the first shot.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2026/01/24/us/minneapolis-shooting-alex-pretti-timeline.html?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20260125&instance_id=170082&nl=from-the-times&regi_id=59209117&segment_id=214283&user_id=86ac9094018f7140c62a54a4e93c075f

https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2026/01/24/minneapolis-shooting-video-analysis-alex-pretti/88338183007/?utm_source=usat-DailyBriefing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-briefing&utm_term=hero&utm_content=8872UT-E-NLETTER02

I did mistakenly assert that he was on the sidewalk. In fact, he was lying in front of a parked vehicle. Multiple shots were fired while he was lying prone.

It is also noteworthy that no officer attempted to render aid to Mr. Pretti after he had been shot. A jury can consider that as evidence of premeditation and intent to kill, as well.

[Stephen Lathrop]

I did see other video showing someone administering chest compressions, whether an officer or not I could not tell. It crossed my mind that chest compressions for someone presumably alive but losing blood might not be a great idea.

[Michael P]

The fact that multiple officers were needed to be keep him on the ground indicates that he was forcefully resisting arrest.

[LexAquilia]

That's seemingly lost on him.

Further, Pretti was armed while committing a felony.

[jb]

Who says they were needed? There's a pretty bad history in this country of law enforcement using more force than is necessary in general, and there's lots of documented instances of ICE overdoing it with protestors, e.g. point-blank deployment of pepper spray on non-resisting protestors or using bean bean bag projectiles on clergy members just standing around outside of whatever perimeter ICE has set up.

Here's a video of ICE agents pushing a guy in a giraffe costume to the ground despite never seeming to try to arrest him without force, and pretty quickly there's four guys on top of him despite the fact he does not seem to be putting up any resistance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAeNqpAmX_4

It's possible Pretti was resisting, but the video doesn't really have evidence of anything other than ICE agents using a lot of force on him before shooting him.

[Michael P]

You're very one-sided about when you allow previous practices and incidents to justify prejudging a matter. You should not let your desired outcome motivate your reasoning so much.

[jb]

Michael P can't tell the difference between "you can't really tell one way or the other" and "that video definitely shows what I want it to" apparently.

Only one of us is prejudging anything here.

[bernard11]

They weren't needed. They were enjoying themselves punching and kicking Pretti, and hitting him on the head with some kind container.

You people are excusing murder in the interest of supporting Trump and his capos.

[Joe_dallas]

Bernard
Ignore the full video
Ignore the fact that he was actively interfering with federal law enforcement
Ignore the fact that he brought a gun to a location where he was planning to interfere with federal law enforecement
Ignore the fact that the gun had a laser optical sight

Ignore everything else so that you can make your invalid point.

You are living in the leftist cult

[Stephen Lathrop]

Joe_dallas — Other than an assertion from Pretti's killers, what evidence can you show that Pretti ever brought a gun to the place where he was killed. Multiple people in the videos I have seen show they brought guns, had guns, held guns, or shot guns. None of them that I could see was Pretti. Can you point to any video evidence to show Pretti with a gun in his hand or on his person?

[Life of Brian]

Can you point to any video evidence to show Pretti with a gun in his hand or on his person?

Setting aside the video evidence from multiple angles showing the plainclothes officer reaching in, grabbing the gun, and carrying it away, I don't understand why you feel it's some big smoking gun that there isn't any more. Do you understand what the word "concealed" means in "concealed carry"?

[bernard11]

Joe,

I watched the full video, several, in fact.

He was not interfering with federal law enforcement.

He had a gun, yes, but there is no indication he planned to interfere. The only thing he wanted to shoot was video which, as we all know, is perfectly legal.

So what if it had a laser optical sight? Do you think they should be illegal?

Ignore everything else? You mean that Pretti was on his knees, bending forward, surrounded by eight agents, who were in no danger? That he made no attempt to get his gun, never brandished it, and that it was taken away before any shooting?

That the Administration immediately began telling lies, calling Pretti a terrorist? That the agents were beating Pretti unnecessarily? That they could have subdued and handcuffed Pretti?

Most important, that there was absolutely nothing that justified the use of deadly force?

[Joe_dallas]

bernard11 8 minutes ago
"He was not interfering with federal law enforcement."

That is absolute BS. You and every other apologists knows that. Why ignore all the facts.

[Life of Brian]

That he made no attempt to get his gun, never brandished it, and that it was taken away before any shooting?

Similar to what I said yesterday in response to one of your comments, if you've watched several videos then you understand there was only about a second between the plainclothes agent removing the gun and the first shot at Pretti. During that second or so, the agents backed off -- which as I understand it is a training point in response to the "gun" call so they can get out of each others' way and see the threat -- and then, with his hands finally free, Pretty reached back to the holster that apparently not even he knew was empty. That's when he was shot.

"Terrorist" isn't supported by the videos I've seen and the facts as I understand them. But neither is the notion that they shot him in cold blood: the shooting agent appears to have made an honest mistake based on the information he had in front of him in the split second he had to make the call. The people actually involved didn't have the luxury of freezing the scene and advancing through it frame by painstaking frame like the armchair quarterback crowd has done in the days since.

That the agents were beating Pretti unnecessarily?That they could have subdued and handcuffed Pretti?

What in the world do you think they were trying to do? It was somewhere between 5 and 8 to 1, and he wasn't giving up. Stunning blows are a pretty typical tactic for someone actively resisting arrest like that.

[Joe_dallas]

NG - I am going to repeat MP's statement - since you repetitively distort and misrepresent the actual facts

Michael P 3 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
Someone forcefully resisting arrest is not "lying prone on the sidewalk". He might have been lying, but lying down implies a degree of passivity.

When you cannot even get the basic facts right, you cast into doubt everything else you write.

[bernard11]

When you cannot even get the basic facts right, you cast into doubt everything else you write.

A good reason to ignore your comments.

[Joe_dallas]

Bernard - That is the problem
NG has repetitively applied the law to a set of facts that are not in existence in this case.

MP explained one of the many facts NG gets wrong.

[Joe_dallas]

Another post by NG with the usual assortment of incorrect facts - Integrity issues?

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Someone forcefully resisting arrest is not "lying prone on the sidewalk". He might have been lying, but lying down implies a degree of passivity."

He wasn't laying on the ground, he was struggling and in the process of standing up, as can be seen in the video.

[Commenter_XY]

Where is the premeditation, NG? It isn't there. Nobody woke up that morning intending to kill Pretti. Manslaughter, that I could see, based on my very rudimentary knowledge gained here. Manslaughter assumes you can get past qualified immunity, and judicial deference to an LEO making a split second decision to potentially save his life, and his colleagues.

It is really, really stupid to bring a loaded weapon, concealed, to an active location where LEOs are performing their job duties. It could cost you your life, as we see.

[Frank Drackman]

But it's the New York Times so it's Bullshit,
or, can't believe I'm going all Dr. Ed first thing Moonday Morning,
it's BULLSHIT
where are the B-2's???? NUKE 620 8th AVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They do have these Nukes that can just take out one Offfice? without any residual Radiation??

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

Dr. Ed = BULLSHYTE

[Dr. Ed 2]

We will see,

[hobie]

What paper/station do you get your news from, Frankie?

[Frank Drackman]

Steve Banyon's "War Room" not really a "Paper/Station", I gave up Newspapers Ions ago, Toilet Paper works much better.

[hobie]

This explains a lot.

[LexAquilia]

Woah! Not the esteemed and august New York Times!!?!
Was it right next to the article about cucking?

[Armchair]

"Under Minnesota law, this was cold blooded, premeditated murder in the first degree."

Always good for a laugh, aren't you NG. "Premeditated" for about 3 seconds, maybe....

[David Nieporent]

As I noted the other day, seconds can be enough to satisfy premeditation.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It has been stated that the particular model handgun that the perp had his particularly notorious for accidental discharges. In English, that means going bang without the person holding it, intending it to do so it’s been stated that there have been over 100 lawsuits filed against the manufacturer for accidental discharges with this particular model.

I am not an attorney. I’m not gonna pretend to try to verify this, but any honest attorney with who is familiar with litigation of this sort and has access to Lexus probably could do so quite easily.

Unless you believe that ice is gonna murder of white American in broad daylight in front the hundreds of witnesses, and knowing how much video camera is gonna be, an accidental discharge when they took possession of the perps gun is the best explanation for what happened. I have been suggesting this since Saturday as a possibility, and it is really the only consistent explanation other than a deliberate murder.

Actually, it makes more sense to deliver murder in terms of the timing of the shots. The first shot a 10th of a second after the iceman took possession of the gun is consistent with an accidental discharge the brief pause, and then a rapid succession of shots is consistent with a different officer hearing the discharge and thinking that the person had shot at him, and shooting back is what the training is to do.

The only other possibility is deliberate, murder, and after the experience of all the video from the shooting two weeks ago, the ice guys would have to be living in a cave to not know that there were people with cameras, recording their every move. If they wouldn’t murder someone, they sure as hell wouldn’t do it in broad daylight, in front of everybody.

If they wanted to murder someone, then arrest the person and then murder and do the murder someplace where there are no witnesses. Not in front of all the protesters…..

[Dr. Ed 2]

This is all in addition to the fact, he should not have had a gun on him while committing crimes.

[not guilty]

What crime do you posit that Mr. Pretti was committing, Dr. Ed. 2?

[Frank Drackman]

Well Ed's a Moron so I'm going to step in,
Try Minnesota Statute 609.495 for one, "Aiding an Offender"
That's a Felony, which means you could get over a year in Prison.
And I'll preemptively say you don't get to ask me any questions, that's what Courts are for, Oh, you're an Idiot like Ed (one can be both a Moron and an Idiot) so ask what you're gonna ask anyway, but you'll get more of a response from Parkinsonian Joe.

Frank

[Frank Drackman]

2025 Minnesota Statutes
609.50 OBSTRUCTING LEGAL PROCESS, ARREST, OR FIREFIGHTING.
§Subdivision 1.Crime. Whoever intentionally does any of the following may be sentenced as provided in subdivision 2:
(1) obstructs, hinders, or prevents the lawful execution of any legal process, civil or criminal, or apprehension of another on a charge or conviction of a criminal offense;

(2) obstructs, resists, or interferes with a peace officer while the officer is engaged in the performance of official duties;

(3) interferes with or obstructs a firefighter while the firefighter is engaged in the performance of official duties;

(4) interferes with or obstructs a member of an ambulance service personnel crew, as defined in section 144E.001, subdivision 3a, who is providing, or attempting to provide, emergency care; or

(5) by force or threat of force endeavors to obstruct any employee of the Department of Revenue, Department of Public Safety Driver and Vehicle Services Division, a driver's license agent appointed under section 171.061, or a deputy registrar appointed under section 168.33 while the employee is lawfully engaged in the performance of official duties for the purpose of deterring or interfering with the performance of those duties.

Subd. 2.Penalty. A person convicted of violating subdivision 1 may be sentenced as follows:
(1) if (i) the person knew or had reason to know that the act created a risk of death, substantial bodily harm, or serious property damage; or (ii) the act caused death, substantial bodily harm, or serious property damage; to imprisonment for not more than five years or to payment of a fine of not more than $10,000, or both;

(2) if the act was accompanied by force or violence or the threat thereof, and is not otherwise covered by clause (1), to imprisonment for not more than 364 days or to payment of a fine of not more than $3,000, or both; or

(3) in other cases, to imprisonment for not more than 90 days or to payment of a fine of not more than $1,000, or both.

History: 1963 c 753 art 1 s 609.50; 1969 c 1013 s 1; 1971 c 23 s 51; 1984 c 628 art 3 s 11; 1986 c 444; 1986 c 470 s 18; 1988 c 584 s 1; 1989 c 5 s 4; 1991 c 103 s 1; 1998 c 367 art 2 s 17; 2004 c 228 art 1 s 72; 2005 c 136 art 17 s 29; 2008 c 304 s 1; 2023 c 52 art 6 s 16; 2023 c 68 art 5 s 51

[Moderation4ever]

Frank while you can quote statutes, the reality here is as you say that the court will decide what is an what is aiding an offender. I believe that like so may of the cases the Trump DOJ tries to pursue there is no real chance that the DOJ can prove the case. Helping a fellow protestor being attacked by LEOs is no more likely to result in a conviction than is throwing a sandwich at an officer. Alex Pretti was murdered because the DHS has no control over its officers. The ICE and DHS officer should have been pulled in after the Renee Good shooting and not surged in greater numbers. Again this is 2026, the Bull Connor's school of dealing with protestors did not work in the 1960's and certainly will not work now.

[Frank Drackman]

Not Guilty (more like "Not Sentient") asked for a Statue, I gave him a Statue.
Yes, Pussying (Pussie-ing? "Acting in the manner of a Pussy"??) Out is just what GHWB, "W", and a President Romeney, Kase-itch, Jeb(!) would have done.
If you haven't noticed (after 10+ yrs of Evidence) Trump aint them.
"45/47/(48?)" Don't give a (Redacted) They tried to Kill him, (sending a 78 yr old man to Rikers is a Death Sentence) and now surprised he's doing what he said he would do.
But you may be right, once the 10th Mountain Division and 1st Brigade Combat Team (10th from Fort Drum NY, 1st from Alaska, Minneapolis will feel like Miami for them) show up, they can let some ICE guys take a break.
Just a friendly warning, Infantry Soldiers like to kill people. That's their job.

Frank

[ReaderY]

Interesting. So the medical staff of a prison are all guilty of multiple felonies. What about the cafeteria staff?

Providing medical treatment to a suspect has never been considered a criminal act. In fact, obstructing medical care and allowing someone to die is a criminal act.

Pretti was a nurse. A world where government and its shills claim that what medical professionals ordinarily do is a crime — this isn’t a controversial issue like abortion, this is ordinary first aid treatment - brings a lot of things to mind. But “American” isn’t one of them.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Nurses carry bandages, water, antiseptics and I like.

They do not carry guns….

[Frank Drackman]

Mrs. Drackman does, even at the Hospital. So do alot of Nurses. In Georgia you don't even need a "Permit".

[Joe_dallas]

not guilty 6 hours ago
Flag Comment
Mute User
What crime do you posit that Mr. Pretti was committing, Dr. Ed. 2?

Another stupid question from NG - though in NG 's defense, its the same stupid question asked by martineed, even though it is evident to all except those ignoring facts.

[Martinned]

I'm still waiting for an answer.

[Joe_dallas]

I will repeat -
You question is stupid and your failure to know the answer highlights your stupidity.

[not guilty]

IOW, Joe_dallas has no clue, nor does he have integrity enough to admit being clueless. So he runs away like a scalded dog.

[Joe_dallas]

NG - you beyond stupid

Its been posted about 12 times already today what law[s] Pretti was breaking

You know exactly what laws he was breaking - you chose to throw insults instead of being honest. Are you sure your licenses is on disability and not for ethics violations?

[Malika la Maize]

So I saw the NRA released a statement on the MN killing. My question is, why?

[Frank Drackman]

Well the NBA has become quite political over the years, I'd prefer they just try to improve the game, how about going back to a Center Jump Ball after every Basket?? And reduce the Free Throw Lane from it's current 15 foot width back to the original 6 feet (that's why it was called "the Key") maybe even put Cages around the Court to limit those boring out of bounds breaks in the action (why you still hear BB players called "Cagers")

Frank

[hobie]

Why? Because some official in Los Angeles said in the press that protestors should err on the side of caution and not carry guns to protests. And the gun groups were pissed off that he said that.

[Malika la Maize]

Within hours of the killing by federal agents on a Minneapolis street, Trump administration officials labeled Mr. Pretti a “would-be assassin” and asserted, with no evidence, that he had committed an act of “domestic terrorism.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/25/us/alex-pretti-minneapolis-shooting.html

wtf is wrong with these pre-judging bastards? Announce a thorough investigation and otherwise STFU.

[LexAquilia]

There are videos of an armed Pretti directing a blockade of lawful government operations. That's what led to the confrontation.

That is the definition of domestic terrorism.

The Left is trying to isolate the context so no one knows why he was there and what he was doing.

[Joe_dallas]

A member of the local anti-ice group, goes to an event to interfer with federal law enforcement, carrying a gun with a laser guided scope (red dot) kinda indicates someone out to cause trouble.

The lefts characterization of the event and of Pretti doesnt match the facts.

[not guilty]

How many homicide cases have any of the upthread peanut gallery of commenters tried?

[Frank Drackman]

How many deaths will it takes till he knows, that too many people have died?
And I'm not talking about Nurse Pretti, Floyd George, the Kid in Ferguson, Tray-Von, Renee No-Good, but their Victims.
And yes, by aiding, abetting, and comforting, Rapists, Murderers, Child Predators, Nurse Pretti is just as guilty as Kill-More Garcia.
Fuck Nurse Pretti and anyone who's mourning his ignominious Exit from this Mortal Coral. Fucker got exactly what he deserved.
PERIOD.

Frank

[Martinned]

You'll never guess who are suddenly no longer interested in defending the rights of gun owners:

NRA Statement on Minnesota Shooting

Fairfax, VA – The National Rifle Association released the following statement regarding the recent officer-involved shooting in Minnesota:

“For months, radical progressive politicians like Tim Walz have incited violence against law enforcement officers who are simply trying to do their jobs. Unsurprisingly, these calls to dangerously interject oneself into legitimate law-enforcement activities have ended in violence, tragically resulting in injuries and fatalities.

As there is with any officer-involved shooting, there will be a robust and comprehensive investigation that takes place to determine if the use of force was justified. As we await these facts and gain a clearer understanding, we urge the political voices to lower the temperature to ensure their constituents and law enforcement officers stay safe.”

[Frank Drackman]

They certainly lowered the temperature for Nurse Pretti.
And are we certain he was a Nurse? He wasn't wearing Scrubs.

Frank

[MarkJawz]

He certainly looked like a faggot.

[Frank Drackman]

Wasn't going to say anything, but he did, didn't he? the facial hair, the mincing, prancing steps, and NO man with any Sphincter tone holds a phone that way, it's a "Tell" like how Gavin New-Scum crosses his legs. (He sits that way and has the Balls to joke about Repubiclowns and Knee Pads???)

Frank

[MarkJawz]

https://nypost.com/2026/01/26/opinion/team-trump-moves-to-ban-traffic-cameras-in-dc-as-nycs-set-to-quadruple-the-dangerous-devices/

The federal government spends $28 billion on HIV drugs and treatment, 75% of which goes to gay men. We could eliminate all traffic cameras with the savings if these people would stop barebacking every man they meet on Grindr.

[LexAquilia]

That's too much to ask a selfish gay. They have a right to a little more pleasure in their high-risk sex, so everyone of us has to pay for their gay party drugs that cost $1000/mo and as a society we have to spend more on their gay side effects than on NASA or curing Cancer.

[MarkJawz]

Pretty much. For these men, shooting loads into other men's rears is central to their existence.

[LexAquilia]

AIDS was originally GRIDS for a reason

[Frank Drackman]

If you're really old like me you remember when it was either "LAV" (Lymphadenopathy Associated Virus) or "HTLV-3"(Human T-Cell-Lymphoma Virus) then it became Human Immunodeficiency Virus.
I think "AIDS" (Anally Injected Death Sentence) was pretty accurate though.

Frank

[LexAquilia]

It's first name was "gay-related immune deficiency" or GRIDs

[Dr. Ed 2]

What is it called gay cancer for a while?

I distinctly remember it being defined as a cancer.

[J_A_H]

You are a despicable person. It's not enough a man, a son, a colleague is dead? You have to speculate about his orientation, as if it might justify his murder? What is wrong with you? Have you no decency, sir?

[J_A_H]

You are a despicable person. It's not enough a man, a son, a colleague is dead? You have to speculate about his orientation, as if it might justify his murder? What is wrong with you? Have you no decency, sir?

[J_A_H]

You are a despicable person. It's not enough a man, a son, a colleague is dead? You have to speculate about his orientation, as if it might justify his murder? What is wrong with you? Have you no decency, sir?

[Mr. Bumble]

Happy you got that off your chest (three times)?

[J_A_H]

There were (at least) three different people engaged in the same behavior. I would hate for any of them to think I was only referring to one of their friends. Having read your comments on this post, where you decide for no particular reason to refer to the victim is 'pretti boy' and where you question whether or not he had a good reason to be carrying a weapon (his reason, presumably, being that he's entitled to do so by the Constitution) I feel quite comfortable lumping you in with them as well.

You're a despicable person. You're blaming a dead man for the acts of his murderers. You're implying that his sexuality had something to do with it or somehow justifies it or makes it a good thing. (One less 'pretti boy' for you to feel you need to torment apparently). You're an asshole, the world is worse for you being in it, and I sincerely hope, pray, and wish that someday soon some armed thug guns you down in the street so that your loved ones (assuming, generously, that anyone in this world gives a shit about you) have to go online and read people trashing your name and your life for sport as you and your compatriots seem compelled to do to this pour soul.

There's plenty more on my chest that I'm happy to get off, if you want it.

Prick.

[MarkJawz]

There isn't a right of gun owners to interfere with law enforcement in the pursuit of evil, left-wing goals.

[Martinned]

That certainly appears to be the view of the NRA...

[MarkJawz]

I haven't had anything to do with the NRA in over a decade, so I'm not really interested in what their view is or isn't.

[LexAquilia]

Why isn't that the view of everyone?

You say that like it's bad. Do you think it's bad that armed Leftists aren't being allowed to disrupt law enforcement activities?

[Riva]

I think they’re against exploitive politicians inciting chaos to distract from the corrupt enabling of industrial level fraud.

[ThePublius]

"suddenly no longer interested in defending the rights of gun owners:"

How the hell do you get that out of the statement that you quoted? You are such a liar!

[grb]

ThePublius : "You are such a liar!"

Inspector Gregory: “Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?”

Sherlock Holmes: “To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time.”

Inspector Gregory: “The dog did nothing in the night-time.”

Sherlock Holmes: “That was the curious incident.”

Why pretend to be so dense, ThePublius? Both the administrative figures and rightwing hacks excusing Pretti's murder have claimed carrying a gun justified his execution. Yet despite that loud repeated assertion, one of the premier gun nut organizations in the country issued a statement on the murder with no Second Amendment defense whatsoever. Martinned isn't the liar here; his point was obvious and justified. You're the liar, ThePublius, for pretending otherwise.

[ThePublius]

He said "suddenly no longer interested in defending the rights of gun owners:" That is a lie. Get it?

[Martinned]

Did you read something other than the "NRA sides with the Trump Regime" statement that I quoted?

[Joe_dallas]

Martineed - NRA was absolutely defending 2A rights of law abiding citizens. NRA was condemning the irresponsible actions of the MN political class who were encouraging violence against lawful federal law enforcement.

[Martinned]

It sounds to me like you're saying that it is the NRA's view that people can be shot for walking around with a gun, which doesn't sound like something the NRA would say.

[Joe_dallas]

That is not what happened
That is not what the NRA stated

But go ahead and lie like every other leftist posting here if that makes you feel good

[David Nieporent]

The NRA didn't say that, but it did put out a significantly weaker statement than more doctrinaire RKBA groups like GOA.

[Frank Drackman]

Borrowing from WC Fields,
I'm betting Nurse Pretti would rather be in Philadelphia.
Even if the low will be 8F

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

If only the Feds would leave Minneapolis things would return to normal "protesting" like that following the death of St. Floyd George.

[Frank Drackman]

Hey, I heard that it's actually (the Late) George Floyd, not Floyd George.

[Bwaaah]

You couldn't just accept a little tip of the hat?

[Michael P]

But the current protests result in miracles! https://x.com/WallStreetApes/status/2015124347921510402

[LexAquilia]

The violence started when the fraud was uncovered.

[David Nieporent]

Is getting his name wrong some sort of attempt at a deliberate snipe at him?

[Michael P]

It's really not surprising who in the comments are full-throatedly allying with insurrection and rebellion.

https://x.com/JamesOKeefeIII/status/2015260124932448533

[MarkJawz]

They don't want immigration law enforced, because they want America's white population replaced with Mayans and Incans. It's that simple.

[LexAquilia]

This is a MUST read for every 1776 Patriot and Heritage American

As a former Special Forces Warrant Officer with multiple rotations running counterinsurgency ops—both hunting insurgents and trying to separate them from sympathetic populations—I’ve seen organized resistance up close. From Anbar to Helmand, the pattern is familiar: spotters, cutouts, dead drops (or modern equivalents), disciplined comms, role specialization, and a willingness to absorb casualties while bleeding the stronger force slowly.

What’s unfolding in Minneapolis right now isn’t “protest.” It’s low-level insurgency infrastructure, built by people who’ve clearly studied the playbook.

Signal groups at 1,000-member cap per zone. Dedicated roles: mobile chasers, plate checkers logging vehicle data into shared databases, 24/7 dispatch nodes vectoring assets, SALUTE-style reporting (Size, Activity, Location, Unit, Time, Equipment) on suspected federal vehicles. Daily chat rotations and timed deletions to frustrate forensic recovery. Vetting processes for new joiners. Mutual aid from sympathetic locals (teachers providing cover, possible PD tip-offs on license plate lookups). Home-base coordination points. Rapid escalation from observation to physical obstruction—or worse.

This isn’t spontaneous outrage. This is C2 (command and control) with redundancy, OPSEC hygiene, and task organization that would make a SF team sergeant nod in recognition. Replace “ICE agents” with “occupying coalition forces” and the structure maps almost 1:1 to early-stage urban cells we hunted in the mid-2000s.

The most sobering part? It’s domestic. Funded, trained (somewhere), and directed by people who live in the same country they’re trying to paralyze law enforcement in. When your own citizens build and operate this level of parallel intelligence and rapid-response network against federal officers—complete with doxxing, vehicle pursuits, and harassment that’s already turned lethal—you’re no longer dealing with civil disobedience. You’re facing a distributed resistance that’s learned the lessons of successful insurgencies: stay below the kinetic threshold most of the time, force over-reaction when possible, maintain popular support through narrative, and never present a single center of gravity.

I spent years training partner forces to dismantle exactly this kind of apparatus. Now pieces of it are standing up in American cities, enabled by elements of local government and civil society. That should keep every thinking American awake at night.

Not because I want escalation. But because history shows these things don’t de-escalate on their own once the infrastructure exists and the cadre believe they’re winning the information war.

We either recognize what we’re actually looking at—or we pretend it’s still just “activism” until the structures harden and spread.

Your call, America. But from where I sit, this isn’t January 2026 politics anymore.
It’s phase one of something we’ve spent decades trying to keep off our own soil.

https://x.com/Schwalm5132/status/2015470661490057540

So powerful. So very powerful. The Left is on their revolutionary march again, and we know by history that means if they win, millions of us are going to be dead. Dead. Not coming back. Dead.

[MarkJawz]

Oh it's very obvious that this is not a grass roots movement, but one funded by Soros and the other Alinskyites.

[SRG2]

Is Soros in the room with you now?

[MarkJawz]

No, but his son Alex who looks like a faygele is probably in there with you.

[Martinned]

Woof, woof!

[ReaderY]

MarkJawz,

You’re definitely seeing things. Question is, are they there? If you want to find out, suggest try cutting down on the recreational drugs.

[LexAquilia]

Did you know they've found the donor files?

They have.

[LexAquilia]

Just 9 counties accounted for TWO-THIRDS of violent confrontations with ICE in America.

This is twice all violent confrontations in the remaining 3,134 counties COMBINED.

A violent confrontation in these 9 counties was 590 TIMES more likely than any of these other 3,134 counties.

590 times.

I plotted these 9 counties, and I found that all 9 counties are sanctuary jurisdictions run by Democrat politicians that resist immigration law enforcement.

These violent confrontations are RARE in states and cities where local officials cooperate with law enforcement.

Elected State officials are conspirators of the revolutionary plot. This isn't just confirmed by evaluating it through a disparate impact lense, it's also confirmed by SignalGate in MN.

[jb]

Just out of curiosity, do you have any data looking at the prevalence of ICE-related violence versus the number of ICE agents moved into a location who are not normally based there? My intuition is that there's a pretty high correlation, but I haven't seen any real analysis.

[LexAquilia]

Me neither, but I think you're reversing cause and effect.

One can easily deduce that fewer ICE actions should require fewer ICE agents and the presence in MN isn't due to an increased load of ICE actions, but reactionary due to the leftwing violence.

A large presence in reaction, makes more sense than a large presence for limited enforcement actions.

That's all qualified with: "I haven't seen any analysis, so my conclusions may be wrong, but do seem reasonable."

[jb]

We all know why there's a lot of ICE agents in Minnesota--because Trump had been focusing on the Somali population there as an example of particularly bad immigrants responsible for lots of fraud against the government.

Notably, DHS itself describes Operation Metro Surge as the "largest immigration operation ever". Prior to the launch of the operation, there wasn't a particularly large amount of protests going on in Minnesota, so your theory of causality dosn't really hold up--why would ICE need to start such a large operation in order to deal with scattered protests that didn't seem particularly more significant than in other blue cities?

[LexAquilia]

>because Trump had been focusing on the Somali population there as an example of particularly bad immigrants responsible for lots of fraud against the government.

If I were to concede your point, which I'm not. I would say "Woah! What an evil guy!! How dare he root out massive systemic fraud committed by illegals or 'refugee's'!!?!?!"

Did you even go back and read what you wrote? Do you think these people should be ripping us off like that because they're black and in a Democrat state?

9 Democrat counties. 66% of the enforcement related violence.

Occam's Razor. It's not the enforcement action, it's the State sponsorship and enablement by select Democrat officials.

[David Nieporent]

If I were to concede your point, which I'm not. I would say "Woah! What an evil guy!! How dare he root out massive systemic fraud committed by illegals or 'refugee's'!!?!?!"

Did you even go back and read what you wrote? Do you think these people should be ripping us off like that because they're black and in a Democrat state?

ICE (or Border Patrol) are not fraud investigators. Not a single one of those agents needed to be sent to Minneapolis to deal with allegations of fraud. And indeed — as I pointed out yesterday — this Metro Surge operation has actually impeded fraud investigations as DHS's behavior has cost the government many of the prosecutors who were working on those cases already.

[Life of Brian]

I don't know that we have enough of this under our belt to have a significant data set, but a few high-presence, low-violence data points I've noticed in passing are Memphis, Atlanta, and New Orleans. Grok tells me there were a number of others (Miami, Houston, Dallas, Columbus, etc.), but I don't yet have any sense of the violence levels of protests there (guessing on the lower side given the states, but just a guess).

[ReaderY]

The same could be said of what Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King did. Or the Underground Railroad. There’s nothing new going on here at all. The question is, are they violent? There’s a big difference between the way the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King’s movement attempted to obstruct enforcement of the segregation laws in an organized, coordinated way -and they definitely did that - and the way that, say, the Weather Underground operated.

This country has had several mass civil disobedience movements in its history. In treating organized non-violent civil disobedience as being equivalent to violent terrorism, the “expert” here is showing only that he’s lost it. Indeed, in being ignorant enough to claim that such a well-established phenomenon is new in our history, he is showing only that he is no expert.

[David Nieporent]

It's a stupid comment by Schwalm, as I mentioned a few minutes ago. He uses jargon to make it sound like he's a serious person, but his entire premise is stupid. "This is organized so it isn't a protest."

And I like, "this isn't civil disobedience because it has already turned lethal," somehow failing to notice who turned it lethal.

[Michael P]

Minneapolis Police Chief admits it doesn't matter to violent leftists (but I repeat myself) whether the Pretti shooting was fully legally justified.

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/2015485444973076765

[LexAquilia]

Laws and shit don't matter when a Leftist has emotions.

[ReaderY]

So now you can just use the magic word “violent” and it becomes OK to shoot people? What, they gave you a mean look and scared you?

I mean, we’re dealing with total woosies here, cowards so fearful they’d shit in their pants if somebody tried to stick a flower in their gun. Of course they’re going to claim the big, bad, mean emergency room nurse was violent. They’re scared shitless. And probanly so drunk and high on drugs they can’t control their trigger fingers.

It’s not like anyone actually QUALIFIED to work in law enforcement is going to want to work for ICE.

[Michael P]

I never said anything like that. Why are you so bad at reading?

[Kenneth Almquist]

For the benefit of readers, here is some of what Michael P didn’t include:

This is the third shooting now in less than three weeks. The Minneapolis Police Department went the entire year last year recovering about 900 guns from the street, arresting hundreds and hundreds of violent offenders, and we didn't shoot anyone. And now this is the second American citizen that has been killed. It's the third shooting within three weeks. People have been speaking out, saying that this was going to happen again. And I think everyone is kind of waiting for folks on both sides to come together and just figure this thing out. This is not sustainable. This police department has only 600 police officers. We are stretched incredibly thin. This is taking an enormous toll trying to manage all of this chaos, on top of having to be the police department for a major city. It's too much.... We understand that for as long as there has been ICE, there has been immigration enforcement in Minnesota. The problem is not that enforcement is happening. It's clearly the manner in which these things are happening.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brian-ohara-minneapolis-police-chief-face-the-nation-transcript-01-25-2026/

The fact that Michael P characterizes Brian O'Hara's statement as an “admission” seems rather telling. Most people would say that avoidable shootings are bad. Not Michael P.

[Sarcastr0]

Michael linked libsoftiktok for truth.

He's not here for truth, he's here for attacking the other side.

[jay.tee]

I wonder why the MPD hasn’t faced the same resistance as ICE…perhaps it’s the organized resistance that includes (or possibly lead by) government and law enforcement officials? Perhaps it’s the incendiary lies state and local officials are carelessly spewing to rile up the masses?

[Magister]

Maybe this is a clue:
"The problem is not that enforcement is happening. It's clearly the manner in which these things are happening."

[MarkJawz]

What all of the "controversy" misses is that if these illegal mestizos left on their own, ICE wouldn't have to be there at all.

[David Nieporent]

They don't have to be there at all.

[Mr. Bumble]

You mean to say that all of the illegal aliens in Minnesota have self-deported?

[David Nieporent]

No; I mean to say that they don't have to be there at all.

[Mr. Bumble]

OK. I agree that there should be no illegal aliens in Minnesota (or in any part of the USA).

[TwelveInchPianist]

Sure. After all, states are allowed to refuse to provide support to federal law enforcement, refuse to protect them from rioters, and even to some degree instigate riots against them.

And if a state does that, the feds have a choice. They can stop enforcing federal law, as Dave suggests, or they can provide complete support, including crowd control, for all of their operations, even if they're less well equipped for it than the locals.

There are downsides to either approach.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Or declare an insurrection, established martial law, and put it into this foolishness.

[MarkJawz]

Yeah, and if they're not there, then the illegal mestizos stay in their "communities," continue to produce anchor baby children, and stay long enough that your ilk will claim it's "cruel" to deport them after they've "built lives here."

We know your strategy.

[Mr. Bumble]

The Dancing Queen governor of Minnesota Sgt. Major Tampon Tim Pepper-Walz has supposedly activated the Minnesota National Guard. So where are they?

[LexAquilia]

They were giving out hot coffee and donuts to protestors yesterday.

lol, the MN National Guard has been activated to be DoorDashers for the Revolution!

[Frank Drackman]

You don't want to know what "Special Treats" Tampon-Tim was dispensing.

[Sarcastr0]

Anyone who has studied any US history from the Revolution to the Civil Rights Movement, can tell who are the bad guys here.

This is not hard. Most of America sees this, political and non-political alike.

When did this place become the last island of extremist Trump cultist weirdos?

[MarkJawz]

The bad guys are those who want to grant de facto citizenship to every mestizo here illegally.

America's forefathers didn't conquer the Injuns and push them onto reservations only to let their genetic cousins from Central and South America flood into this country.

[Sarcastr0]

Thanks Mark, I think you've hit on it.
White nationalists, neo-Nazis and incels are on the rise here and in the GOP generally.
The rest are just nihilists who have not ideology. For one perceived grievance or another their comfortable life has lead real hatred of modern America, and they want to burn it all down. So they support Trump and his acolytes not despite his selfish, stupid, authoritarianism, but because of it.

After all, if you expect civil war, why not winnow down the ranks a bit first?

So either they win, in which case they'll learn their lesson well after anything matters, or they won't. And if they lose, what happens next? What do you do with such people who didn't do anything materials, but have revealed themselves as Nazis but for age and laziness?

[LexAquilia]

What the Democrats are doing in MN is a civil war.

It already is.

[Sarcastr0]

You don't mean any of it. Lying about the facts, lying about who you are, lying what you believe, it's all in the fun.
So what's the point in responding?

I do think your hate is real.

[LexAquilia]

Oh, now you're a mind reader and you can peer into my heart of hearts!

lol get bent, rebel scum

Go read my post from that Special Forces guy. Maybe you should go call him a liar in your bluesky void.

[grb]

LexAquilia : "What the Democrats are doing in MN is a civil war."

No one is fooled by your crap, Lex. Right now, over 3,000 federal officers have invaded a city of just 430,000. This compares with the few hundred sent to Chicago this Fall (city population, 2.7 million).

In fact, Trump has sent 13% of his immigration forces to Minnesota alone and now threatens the state with military force. Yet Minnesota's immigrant population ranks 23rd in the US, far behind such red states like Texas, Florida, Arizona, Georgia, and North Carolina. Out of about six million residents, Minnesota has an estimated 130,000 who are in America illegally, a number on par with Utah, Wisconsin and Indiana. Minnesota’s population of immigrants here illegally stands at an estimated 2.2%, about half the national average, according to the Pew Research Center.

They aren't there for law enforcement. They are there as an invading army, sent to Minnesota to punish the state's population because they voted for Trump's enemies. And this is an occupation force encouraged to be pointlessly brutal and confrontational. They've been told they have total immunity from the law and now see that extends to murder itself. Twice they've executed a U.S. citizen and there hasn't been the pretense of an investigation either time. Yet Trump keeps trying to push more occupation troops into the city - which now generates endless video clips of lawless thugs rousting random people on the street for their "papers".

All of which is as un-American as you can get, but our rightwing authoritarian bootlickers in this forum are busy showing no jackboot shoved under their lowered face will go unpolished. The true patriots are the ones protesting this abuse of State power.

[LexAquilia]

From earlier:

Just 9 counties accounted for TWO-THIRDS of violent confrontations with ICE in America.

This is twice all violent confrontations in the remaining 3,134 counties COMBINED.

A violent confrontation in these 9 counties was 590 TIMES more likely than any of these other 3,134 counties.

590 times.

I plotted these 9 counties, and I found that all 9 counties are sanctuary jurisdictions run by Democrat politicians that resist immigration law enforcement.

These violent confrontations are RARE in states and cities where local officials cooperate with law enforcement.

The data suggests you're wrong and I'm right. Are you an empiricist, or a Scientismist (tm)?

[Michael P]

They aren't there for law enforcement. They are there as an invading army, sent to Minnesota to punish the state's population because they voted for Trump's enemies.

Your take is an insurrectionist fantasy. The federal government needs that many immigration agents because the state and local police refuse to keep order or enforce laws against those who damage or destroy equipment and who interfere with federal law enforcement operations. Federal officers are only needed to enforce the laws that Walz, Frey and their subordinates want broken.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"No one is fooled by your crap, Lex. Right now, over 3,000 federal officers have invaded a city of just 430,000."

Sure. In our federalist system, states are free to refuse to support federal law enforcement, and even whip up civil unrest against them.

In such a scenario, the feds have to provide their own resources, including crown control, crime scene investigation, etc. even if they're less well equipped to handle it.

But just because a state can do that, doesn't mean it should do that.

[MarkJawz]

I don't hate being white. I'm proud of it.

[David Nieporent]

Weird thing to be proud of — something you had nothing to do with and no control over and that has no moral valence.

[LexAquilia]

I'm proud of my race, my faith, and my family structure. I know historically it's my kind that has moved human history more than any other and that my children will have superior outcomes to most others -- worldwide.

Now, I don't go hold parades about it because I'm not some shame-filled degenerate seeking public validation. Nor do I burn down cities or appropriate and 'ape' other cultures and lifestyles due to a genetic sense of inferiority. But hey, still proud nonetheless.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Weird thing to be proud of — something you had nothing to do with and no control over and that has no moral valence."

I agree, but recently the left has really been flogging the idea that people should be proud of that sort of thing, it's not surprising to see people taking them up on it.

[MarkJawz]

But I'm sure you have no issue being proud of being gay, black, Mexican, Jewish, Indian, Japanese, or anything else, amirite?

[David Nieporent]

Why are you sure of that?

[MarkJawz]

Because I know you and your type.

[David Nieporent]

Wait, you know me? Are you that guy I had to call the police on for peeping through my windows last week?

[Dr. Ed 2]

James Buchanan could have prevented a Civil War, Dwight Eisenhower did.

[LexAquilia]

It's the ones who are organizing a revolution to cover up industrial-scale fraud, politic graft, and protect criminal illegals.

That's obvious by the data.

[Sarcastr0]

Lex is just here to fuck around.

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words.

The anti-Semites have the right to play.

They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert.

[LexAquilia]

Deflection and an ad hom.

That's all you do. Act like a whiney bitch and then use logical fallacies.

How did you survive DOGE being so useless?

You never address arguments, only your shitty faggy feelings.

[LexAquilia]

It's also like you can't grasp how time works and that in different situations people behave different.

Do you know that? Do you know about 'time'? and how it works? Or humans? Do you know that humans can change based upon current events?

What's you IQ? Somali-levels? Is that why don't understand 'time'?

[Armchair]

The Whiskey Rebellion
The Nullification Crisis
The Civil War
The Ole Miss Riot of 1962

We've studied history. We can see who the "bad guys" are. Those who seek to overturn the democratically voted on laws of the United States through riots and force.

[LexAquilia]

https://x.com/IRT_Media/status/2015686517730025624

Watch as a federal agent stands guard bleeding from his mouth, hands, and nose while MN police stand down and leave him stranded.

Fuck every single one of you Democrats. Especially Sarcastr0, that federal agent's blood is on his hands.

[LexAquilia]

I wonder if hobie or Sarcastr0 were the ones assaulting these federal officers?

https://x.com/FrontlinesTPUSA/status/2015647458575999046

[hobie]

I say we all go to Sarcastr0's house and fuck him. That bastard.

[LexAquilia]

The CCP doesn't not look kindly on homosexuality, Revolutionary Comrade.

[LexAquilia]

Another hobie or Sarcastr0 rocketing concrete blocks at federal agents.

https://x.com/EndWokeness/status/2015683202354930077

[Mr. Bumble]

Most legal gun owners who carry open or concealed, do so for self-defense. Who was Pretti Boy Alex thinking he need to defend himself from? Anti anti-ice protestors or ICE agents?
I haven't seen any reports of anti anti-ice protestors and I can think of no reason he'd be justified in using his weapon against ICE.
Bonus question: Why was he carrying 60+ rounds?

[hobie]

You gun grabbers are all alike. Now you're saying gun-loving patriots like Mr. Pretti must have an articulable reason for carrying

[LexAquilia]

He didn't have any ID, nor CCW license, in violation of State law and was in the commission of a felony.

Do you think that's acceptable for a gun owner?

[hobie]

Thought you hayseeds hated permits...

"More [hayseed] states remove permit requirement to carry a concealed gun

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/URLs_Cited/OT2021/20-843/20-843-4.pdf

[LexAquilia]

Does my feelings towards permits change the MN statutes?

Is that why you said that? You somehow believe I can hold a feeling and that magically transmogrifies the law in Democrat states?

no offense, Comrade Brother, but that's a pretty dumb ass take.

[hobie]

Keep digging, Lex.

[LexAquilia]

Don't deflect. Address my point.

Does my belief about a law alter the reality of that law? That's what you seem to think.

Gun owners are obligated to follow the law, even when they disagree. There are remedies, without violating the law, to change laws you disagree with. Why don't you know this? Isn't this basic civics? Did you go to a government school?

[hobie]

Cool. Two MAGA reversals on guns in one thread. Must say, the power of brownie fear is strong!

1. Must have reason to walk around with gun
2. Must have permit and ID [except in hayseed states]
3. [from yesterday] 'shouldn't' bring gun to protests [ala Oath Keepers]

Anything else, boys?

[LexAquilia]

1. Must have reason to walk around with gun
"Self defense" is the defacto reason. Being armed while planning and then committing a felony kinda excludes "Self defense" no? Or do you think there's some legal doctrine where if you're committing a felony, you have a 2A right to defend yourself from law enforcement? I don't know of anyone who believes that.

2. Must have permit and ID [except in hayseed states]
In states that require it by law. yes of course, you have to abide by the law as a responsible gun owner. Why you think this is some clever hot take can only be explained by low IQ.

3. [from yesterday] 'shouldn't' bring gun to protests [ala Oath Keepers]

That's the doctrinaire position of 26 Democrat states. In fact, not just 'shouldn't' but you have no right too.

HTH

[Dr. Ed 2]

What is truly terrifying as what the Arizona Attorney General said about citizens right to shoot ice guys.

People don’t realize is that there is a direct relationship between the threat to ice guys and their willingness to use deadly forced to defend themselves. Those assholes hadn’t been to all the shit they’re doing in Minnesota. They wouldn’t have shot the nurse guy.

[jb]

Wow, the 2A is really taking a beating in the comments the last few days.

I was under the impression that a lot of people carried their guns at basically all times when they're out and about. Isn't this actually a big part of the premise of the Hawaii case just argued before the Supreme Court?

As a general rule--do you generally know in advance when you're going to have to defend yourself?

[LexAquilia]

If you're carrying a weapon to a planned felony, do you have some special 2A right?

He was part of the planning (verified by Signal logs) for obstructing law enforcement. He didn't have any ID, nor a CCW license as required by MN law. He then committed a felony while armed.

I don't know many, even the most radical 2A supporters, who think you have a right to commit a felony while armed.

Do you? Do you really think you're making a sound point?

[Estragon]

“The White House built its coalition on Second Amendment absolutism and law-and-order rhetoric. Now those principles are in direct conflict, and there’s no talking point that resolves the contradiction. Either you defend gun rights for all lawful carriers, or you defend federal agents killing someone who never drew their weapon. You can’t do both, and watching administration officials try is revealing the intellectual bankruptcy at the core of their governance. This is what happens when an administration governs by narrative rather than principle, by spectacle rather than competence. Eventually, reality intrudes in ways you can’t spin.”

[Bunny495]

As a life NRA member who competes in the weekly events at my local NRA range (except the skeet stuff due to how the recoil affects my shoulder) and trains on week days I think nothing of sending 1,000 rounds a week down range. Carrying 60 rounds sounds like 'you need to pump up those rookie numbers'. While I do have a CCW and multiple open and concealed devices to carry weapons truth be told it is a pain in the ass to use any of them. I can't remember the last I went strapped. As an aside every NRA ranger officer (even those I know personally as friends) turn into a hard ass once on the range and give a new meaning to FAFO.

No NRA range officer would think Pretti was acting responsibly. Try running when carrying and the range officer would slap you to sleep and then slap you for going to sleep.

[LexAquilia]

When this sort of civil unrest goes on in a foreign country like Egypt. We all believe that our intelligence services could be involved in stirring up the pots.

Why wouldn't we believe that foreign intelligence services aren't doing that here as well?

[John 4]

Someone should find out if the Russian have anything to do with MAGA turning into anti-gun commies at the flick of a switch!

[LexAquilia]

Hoo boy, we can see the talking points in action.

All of y'all are pressing the same nonsense. lol, are you one of those rebels in those signal chats?

P.S.

You don't have a 2A right to violate state carrying laws.
You don't have a 2A right to carry a weapon during the planning and commission of a felony.

[hobie]

[Bwaaah]

And here we are again, with Mainly Peaceful Protests (anti-ICE "protestors" trashing a hotel in Minneapolis last night).

I guess the outer limit of the institutional memory of the Democratic party is down to 6 years now.

Cheer on, comrades! Your cause is just! Your mightful fist is right! The people are with you! The truth is not in dispute!

[Sarcastr0]

Nothing say liberal like whining that everyone has to just quietly comply, already!
And if you get too annoying, then well you might get shot.
And he'll make sure to blame you.

So recently disaffected!

Bwaaah has been cheek-to-jowl to MAGA for quite some time now, I don't know why he bothers.

[Bwaaah]

You have a long-winded, nasty way of communicating, "I do not dispute what you have said."

[Magister]

"Umbrella man" six years ago was a white supremacist who wanted a race war; protesters knowing or not knowing about that hardly reflects the "institutional memory of the Democratic party".

And here a dishonest commenter is still whining that nobody will have an honest discussion with him.

[ReaderY]

I watched the video carefully to the end. It shows nothing of the sort. All the glass in the lobby windows (and there’s a lot) is completely intact, unscratched. While the camera shows writing that looks lile grafitti, it’s all on crude hand-written signs on the sidewalk and street outside the hotel. There’s no grafitti at all on or in the hotel itself. And while there definitely is “trash” in the hotel lobby and it looks rather messy, this is very clearly the ICE folks’ own gear. And while there’s some real trash on the floor here and there amid the ICE gear, I see no reason to assume that isn’t the ICE folks’ as well. While the video definitely suggests that ICE folks aren’t the neatest of people, nothing in the video shows that the protesters have so much as touched the hotel. It’s completely intact. No broken glass, no grafitti, no defacing, no nothing. Not even any trespassing. Protestors are all on public property, in the street and sidewalk.

You may not like people carrying crude signs standing putside a hotel and shouting. But there is absolutely no trashing of the hotel in this video. The protesters are hardly as orderly as a drill squad. But the video shows very clearly that they are being civil and following the law.

If this is your evidence of “trashing,” it says a lot about the credibility of the various other things you said.

[Magister]

What? Bwaaah is dishonest again? I am so glad that, based on Bwaaah's past credibility, I did not bother to look at that video.

[Michael P]

I watched the video carefully to the end. It shows nothing of the sort. All the glass in the lobby windows (and there’s a lot) is completely intact, unscratched.

Your video watching skills leave an enormous amount to be desired. The video at 0:34-0:36 clearly shows shattered glass, with most of a pane missing. The video immediately preceding that shows that the windows there are just to the left of the main lobby door of the hotel.

It’s completely intact. No broken glass, no grafitti, no defacing, no nothing.

That is total bullshit. The video clearly shows graffiti on most of the glass panes that are not broken out.

[ThePublius]

You are so full of shit! You don't see the red spray paint on the hotel windows? The broken pane? Wow. You are either dleusional or just a flat out liar.

[ThePublius]

I just had to come back to this. I can't believe ReaderY could claim to have wathed that video "carefully" and not seen the obvious red paint graffitti and trashing of the lobby, and say it didn't happen, and that the 'trash' was ICE agents' stuff. What a completely deranged soul. You can't take anything he says going forward seriously.

ReaderY, why do you so blatantly lie? Examine your conscience. Read what you wrote and watch the video again.

[Bwaaah]

At 0:34-0:36, and at 1:49.

"No broken glass, no grafitti, no defacing," you said. You were very "careful" in your watching, you say.

I'd like to "peacefully" visit your home and carefully do nothing of significance to it. You can do cleanup the day after, and savor the analysis of people in the world like ReaderY. You'd be irrelevant collateral damage in a battle of thugs, like the Homewood Suites Hotel. You could listen to people running their traps about stuff that has nothing to do with you. You could listen to the ReaderY report that touts "very clearly civil people following the law."

Of course, I wouldn't do anything like that.

[Bwaaah]

Don't look back. Concede nothing. Your cause is just. Your honesty is unimportant.

But do tell me about "the credibility of the various other things [I've] said." Like I always say to the bad-faith arguers: copy/paste what I've ever said that leads you to write that.

[Sarcastr0]

What the fuck is this argument?

'Your assertion is invalid because I've decided you're lying out of righteousness.'

How often does that tactic work, I wonder? I suppose it burnishes your own resentment, but I wouldn't count that a success...

Like, ReaderY isn't a very partisan dude; he's all over the map.

[jay.tee]

What a bizarre time to show your ass, defending ReaderY after he had so obviously shown his ass.

The hotel in question was clearly vandalized: broken windows, graffiti, rioters displaying stolen signs, etc. You did watch the video, right?

[Magister]

Bwaaah prefers to defend MAGA commenters and to criticize non MAGA commenters, often with dishonest comments and namecalling. Anyone can observe this trend; it's not exactly a rarity.

I did find a few choice comments about his chameleon claims, not too hard given his frequent misrepresentations interspersed among his accusations of nastiness and dishonesty. The "disaffected liberal" label is one he brought on himself.

My comment from December:

Bwaaah a few hours ago:

Your faulty premise is: "Those MAGAs are all the same."

Bwaaah more recently:

I attribute to Democrats their trending voices.

This sort of thiong is one of the many, many reasons that people think Bwaaah is a fake liberal.

Bwaaah from August:

And I'm still a disappointed liberal. Your lovely voice, in alleged advocacy of "liberalism," elucidates the [nasty] spirit of contemporary liberalism.

Bwaaah only days ago:

I'm a moderate.

[Sarcastr0]

Brutal.

[ReaderY]

These ICE “officers” refused to let state investigators investigate them. My question is this. If they weren’t drunk and high on drugs, why did they refuse to let law enforcement give them a breathalyzer?

It seems to me their refusal to submit to investigation gives rise to the same inference appropriate to everyone else who submits.

[LexAquilia]

They do not believe the same organization that turns around when federal officers need aid, and are actively supporting the insurgency would give them a fair shake.

That's my guess. Seems reasonable.

[Martinned]

Kanye West has taken out a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal

To Those I’ve Hurt

**By Ye**
*Formerly known as Kanye West*

Twenty-five years ago, I was in a car accident that broke my jaw and caused injury to the right frontal lobe of my brain. At the time, the focus was on the visible damage—the fracture, the swelling and the immediate physical trauma. The deeper injury, the one inside my skull, went unnoticed.

Comprehensive scans were not done, neurological exams were limited, and the possibility of a frontal-lobe injury was never raised. It wasn’t properly diagnosed until 2023. That medical oversight caused damage to my mental health and led to my bipolar type-1 diagnosis.

Bipolar disorder comes with its own defense system. During manic episodes, you don’t think you’re sick. You think everyone else is overreacting. You feel like you’re seeing the world more clearly than ever, when in reality you’re losing your grip entirely.

Once people label you as “crazy,” you feel as if you cannot contribute anything meaningful to the world. It’s easy for people to joke and laugh it off when in fact this is a very serious debilitating disease you can die from. According to the World Health Organization and Cambridge University, people with bipolar disorder have a life expectancy that is shortened by ten to fifteen years on average, and a two-to-three-times higher all-cause mortality rate than the general population. This is in part with severe heart disease, type-2 diabetes, HIV, and cancer—as well as an elevated rate of suicide.

The scariest thing about this disorder is how persuasive it is when it tells you: You don’t need help. It makes you blind, but convinced you have insight. You feel powerful, certain, and unstoppable.

I lost touch with reality. Things got worse the longer I ignored the problem. I said and did things I deeply regret. Some of the people I love the most, I treated the worst. You endured fear, confusion, humiliation, and the exhaustion of trying to love someone who was, at times, unrecognizable. Looking back, I became detached from my true self.

In that fractured state, I gravitated toward the most destructive symbol I could find: the swastika, and even sold t-shirts bearing it. One of the most difficult aspects of having bipolar type-1 are the disconnects moments—many of which I still cannot recall—that lead to poor judgment and reckless behavior that oftentimes feels like an out-of-body experience. I regret and deeply mourn the hurt my actions in that state, and am committed to accountability, treatment, and meaningful change. It does not excuse what I did, though. I am not a Nazi or an antisemite. I love Jewish people.

To the black community—which held me down through all of the highs and lows and darkest of times. The black community is, unquestionably, the foundation of who I am. I am so sorry to have let you down. I love us.

In early 2025, I fell into a four-month long manic episode of psychotic, paranoid and impulsive behavior that destroyed my life. As the situation became increasingly untenable, there were times I didn’t want to be here anymore.

Having bipolar disorder is not a state of constant mental illness. When you go into the manic episode, you are ill at that point. When you are not in an episode, you are completely normal. And that’s when the wreckage from the illness hits the hardest. Hiding rock bottom a few months ago, my wife encouraged me to finally get help.

I have found comfort in Reddit forums of all places. Different people speak of being manic or depressive episodes of a similar nature. I read their stories and realized that I was not alone. It’s not just me who ruins their entire life once every few years and being told by the so-called best doctors in the world that I am not bipolar, but merely experiencing “symptoms of autism.”

My words as a leader in my community have real global impact and influence. In my mania, I lost complete sight of that.

As I find my new baseline and new center through effective regime of medication, therapy, exercise and clean living, I have newfound, much-needed clarity. I am pouring my energy into positive, meaningful art: music, clothing, design, and other new ideas to help the world.

I’m not asking for sympathy or a free pass, though I aspire to earn your forgiveness. I write today simply to ask for your patience and understanding as I find my way home.

With love,

*Ye*

[Sarcastr0]

It's always a tricky thing when someone with mental health said and did some terrible stuff, but is now getting the help he needs.

This ain't a bad first step I'd say.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I’m also more willing to cut someone some slack when it’s a-result of documented medical reasons.

[David Nieporent]

Is that an implicit admission on your part?

[Dr. Ed 2]

???

[David Nieporent]

This ain't a bad first step I'd say.

I mean, the odds that he personally wrote this are about equal to the odds of Voltage! becoming a financial sponsor of the ADL, but I will accept (until proven otherwise) that he (Ye, not Voltage!) endorses what it says.

[Sarcastr0]

Sponsorship, eh? He does have a lot of money he could put to good use if he really wants to...

[LexAquilia]

I sponsor Planned Parenthood. I love the work they're doing in the inner cities.

[Michael P]

I hope that he continues to recover from his injury and, if it does not fully heal on its own, he learns how to manage it well so that he and those close to him can enjoy the best person he can be.

It says something, on balance I think positive, that he recognizes the incongruity of seeing Reddit as a place of comfort, balance and reasonability.

[John F. Carr]

He needs to release a cover of "Crazy", the Willie Nelson composition made into a hit by Patsy Cline.

[Bunny495]

Lost in the shit storm that is blue cities pissing and moaning about ICE is:

"Issued on January 8, 2026, this GTO isn't a suggestion—it’s a reporting mandate that effectively turns every bank and money transmitter in Hennepin and Ramsey Counties into a federal informant.

The Threshold: It slashes the reporting limit for international wire transfers from the standard $10,000 down to $3,000.

The "Hawala" Target: It specifically requires reporting on "ledger entries" typical of hawala networks. This is designed to identify the "middlemen" moving the proceeds of the alleged $9 billion fraud.

The Deadline: The order officially takes effect on February 12, 2026. Between now and then, the Treasury expects a "dash for the exits" as people try to move funds before the reporting window closes—which is exactly what federal agents are waiting for."

I would also point out that while I questioned why Trump was not using the Screaming Eagles for boots on the ground it turns out the Arctic Angles not only think winter in the lower 48 is like summer to them, they also have the ability to make geofencing and cell tower dumps look like kiddie toys using battle field intel electronic tools.

Frey and Waltz are not even playing checkers while Trump is playing 3D chess.

[LexAquilia]

It's the unmasking of the fraud and political patronage that is causing this reaction.

[grb]

Bunny495 : "Frey and Waltz are not even playing checkers while Trump is playing 3D chess."

1. Which is why Trump finds himself deep underwater on his signature issue and the GOP is fracturing in full panic-mode. Cultists like Bunny just humiliate themselves while servicing Dear Leader from their knees. They don't seem to realize how pathetic & slavish this appears to normal people.

2. I'm not sure what Bunny495 thinks all his "geofencing" will accomplish. But since he clearly hasn't bothered to think this thru, I'll help: "Cell tower dumps" (and whatever) won't produce a crime where none exist. Which is the case here. No doubt Bunny objects that Trump's gestapo will arrest people regardless of any legal justification - which is true. But that will yet one more PR fiasco discrediting this thug invasion further.

3. The gyrations of today's Righties are pure comedy! Fresh from doing his obedient duty to State Power, Bunny495 pauses to pretend he cares about Liberty (capital "L"), then returns to supporting the lawless thugs executing U.S. citizens. "Liberty", it appears, has a very limited definition to the bootlicking Right.

4. Then comes some little-boy gushing about the "Screaming Eagles" and "Arctic Angles". Can any Righties explain why they believe a military invasion of Minnesota won't disgust and repel the overwhelming majority of Americans? Just as the current lawless thug antics does by a large margin.

Of course using military force satisfies that fascist itch never far below the surface in today's Right, but I can't see how they think it will do good. It won't stop the people of Minnesota, who are principled and very-much not cowards. And it will turn-off normal people even more.

[Estragon]

“but I can't see how they think it will do good.”

This is sort of what I am alluding to below. How does this help get MAGA to the promised land? The online ultras are itching for this outcome but it’s like literally not one single one of them has even thought critically about how that might go and what would come next.

[Frank Drackman]

In the interests of Open-ness I'll admit my NFL Picks didn't do that great yesterday.
Got the games, right, (Denver saved me with that "Hook") just got the Over/Under's reversed.
Of course what do you expect, Broncos replacing one former Auburn QB with another, (what, Cam Newton wasn't available??)
Hope Trump skips the Super Bowl, Behavior during the National Anthem was abhorrent, looked like they were waiting in line at the QT, maybe a little respect? Is it too much to ask them to stop chewing their cud, put hand over heart, maybe even sing along (like I do) take your fucking hat off?
And that was the Fans, the players were even worse.
But what should I expect? 4 "Blue" States. Who's doing the Halftime Show, Zoran Man-damn-he, Kill-more Garcia, the Ham-Ass Players with Gavin New-Scum on his Kneepads playing the Skin-Flute???

Frank

[dwb68]

You can be pro-immigration enforcement and also think ICE and CBP are doing a terrible job and that Pretti was a bad shoot. Pretti was shot after one of the agents disarmed him. Maybe the gun went off by accident, or maybe the agents overreacted because the agitators were blowing whistles and…well, agitating. Either way, Noem coming out with stupid statements afterwards only makes ICE look worse. It's true that Minnesota is engineered chaos. You go in prepared, and ICE was unprepared.

ICE is turning independents against immigration enforcement and validating the left's worst predictions: stormtroopers.

[Moderation4ever]

I think you captured the problem well. The Renee Good shooting would have had any urban police force pulling back and reevaluating. The idea of a Bull Connor surge shows just how incompetent the Trump administration is. Past Presidents, including Obama and Biden, have deported large number of people with little problem like we are seeing with the Trump administration. Why is that? I would suggest competency in the staff assigned to the task.

[hobie]

" would suggest competency in the staff assigned to the task."

Dare I point out that competent border czar under Biden.

[Moderation4ever]

There is no doubt that the Biden administration failed to address concerns about immigration at the border. I believe that was one reason that Kamala Harris failed to win the Presidency. The fact remains that the Biden administration did deport large numbers of people and did so without cause outrage in the general public.

[Frank Drackman]

Bull Connor was a DemoKKKrat
But he did install the first 9-1-1 System, so there's that.
I think it was 1972, and they specified that it was 9-1-1 and not 9-11, because they didn't want people not to call when they couldn't find an "11" on their phone (it was Alabama, and before "This is Spinal Tap")
In most of Europe it's 1-1-9 (They got the same Shit we got here but there it's just a little different)

Frank

[Josh R]

There are three things leading to public disapproval of Trump's handling of immigration (from least to worst):

1) Deporting all of the unlawfully present. While there is broad support for deporting violent felons (the worst of the worst), it's at best a wash for deporting farm workers and other laborers.

2) Jack-booted thug tactics by ICE and CBP. Very unpopular.

3) Bald-faced lies about those harmed by ICE and CBP. Even more unpopular.

All of the above three are intentionally part of Miller's plan. Trump has expressed sympathy for the farm workers but has done nothing about it, talking only about the worst of the worst (hoping that spin deflects from the reality). We shall see how long he will let #2 and #3 stand as his poll numbers crater.

[David Nieporent]

1) Deporting all of the unlawfully present. While there is broad support for deporting violent felons (the worst of the worst), it's at best a wash for deporting farm workers and other laborers.

The problem Trump faces is that the demand for the Worst of the Worst far exceeds the supply… but The Deplorables™ don't care about that; they want big numbers while just being as cruel as possible, which necessarily involves deporting people who are otherwise law-abiding. There's no way to satisfy both constituencies, normies and crazies.

[LexAquilia]

Laugh of the Day:

https://x.com/KimKatieUSA/status/2015801256795885712

Watch that rebel pick up a flashbang. lol

[Michael P]

I decry the ignorance that leads someone to claim that a person wins the Darwin Award without actually removing themself from the gene pool.

[Life of Brian]

"Life is a video game," Jan. 26 edition.

[Commenter_XY]

Ouch! She looks like she is in literal screaming agony.

[Bunny495]

Public Service Announcement

This is not from the Onion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/san-francisco-mayor-lurie-closes-the-5m-homeless-bar-common-sense-finally-prevails/ar-AA1UYH6B

[David Nieporent]

The program may have been poorly designed/run, but to be clear, they were not spending $5m on alcohol. It was a treatment program; that was the entire budget. But the treatment did include serving alcohol to the participants, so there was no way it was going to end well politically.

[Dr. Ed 2]

.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

The word "gaslight" is used a lot these days.

It is a title of a classic film with Charles Boyer trying to "gaslight" Ingrid Bergman to think she is crazy.

Boyer, a French actor, was in many films, including Algiers, where he played a character named "Pepe." He was in various romantic roles, an example of the romantic Frenchman trope.

The Looney Tunes character Pepe Le Pew's (the romantic skunk who probably crosses the line into sexual harassment) original voice is patterned after him.

[Life of Brian]

Thanks for this --- added to my watch list.

This is the classic, useful meaning of the term as I've understood it. The recent morphing into more of a general synonym for lying is unfortunate.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

"general synonym for lying"

The general usage I am familiar with is similar to the film.

Lying with the intent of trying to convince people that the lie is true. And, doing so for nefarious purposes.

[Life of Brian]

Other than fringe stuff like pathological liars that just can't help themselves, it seems like most lying is done to try to convince people it's true. I thought the nuance on gaslighting was that the target knows full well it's false (e.g., from having lived through history the gaslighter is now trying to rewrite), but the confidence and persistence of the gaslighter eventually makes the target question their grasp on reality.

[TwelveInchPianist]

It was part of recent movement on the left to frame everything in clinical/gender studies terminology. Gaslighting, per them is a form of psychological abuse, so if someone said something they disagreed with, they weren't just wrong, and they weren't merely lying, they were being abusive.

It seems to have migrated into more common usage.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

That generally sounds right. The point holds: I don't generally see "gaslighting" to mean "a general synonym for lying."

People, for example, are angry about someone trying to convince us that "x" is true when it is obviously not and making out that us not admitting it makes us crazy. Stop gaslighting!

It isn't just about some general liar sort of thing. But it is often hard to determine general usage from the small samples we see.

[Ridgeway]

Gaslighting a shorthand way of saying, "Who are you going to trust? Me, or your own lyin' eyes?"

The reason it works (in the movie and in real life) is that you (the gaslight-ee) trust the gaslight-or and have no reason to believe they might be deceiving you.

[David Nieporent]

Lying with the intent of trying to convince people that the lie is true.

That doesn't quite capture it; that formulation describes most lies. The purpose of the gaslighting in the movie was to make his wife think she was crazy.

EDIT: Or, what Life of Brian wrote.

[Ridgeway]

@Joe-

Was Algiers a remake of Pepe le Moko with Jean Gabin? They sound very similar.

Algiers also figures prominently in a very different movie: Battle for Algiers. One very inside-baseball thing I noticed in that movie is that the actor who plays the French Paratroop Colonel (who tortures the prisoners for information), is the same guy that plays Wollensky in Day of the Jackal (who is tortured by French intelligence to five up details of the assassination plot.)

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Yes. Algiers is an American remake of the French film Pépé le Moko, the name of Charles Boyer's character.

[Estragon]

Sometimes I wonder what MAGA thinks the endgame looks like here. Both generally as a movement, but also specifically— for someone like Greg Bovino or Steven Miller.

Does Greg think to himself one day this will all be over and I will be able to go back to North Carolina and enjoy a quiet and anonymous retirement? ISTM he’s in a bit of a hole that’s going to be hard to kill and brutalize his way out of.

[John F. Carr]

On the subject of Miller, I enjoy The Onion's coverage:

https://theonion.com/tag/stephen-miller/

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Chris Madel ends GOP bid for governor, says he can’t support federal ‘retribution’ against Minnesota

https://www.startribune.com/chris-madel-ends-gop-bid-for-governor-says-he-cant-support-federal-retribution-against-minnesota/601570793

Republican Chris Madel made a stunning exit from the Minnesota governor’s race on Jan. 26, saying he cannot support the national GOP’s “stated retribution on the citizens of our state, nor can I count myself a member of a party that would do so.”

In a surprise video announcement, the Minneapolis attorney said he supported the originally stated goals of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s operation in Minnesota, including the deportation of undocumented immigrants with serious criminal records, but the effort has “expanded far beyond its stated focus on true public safety threats.”

This was the guy, citing the "right to counsel" who

He launched his campaign for governor as a staunch defender of law enforcement and had recently provided legal counsel to Jonathan Ross, the ICE agent who shot and killed Renee Good in Minneapolis on Jan. 7.

To be clear, he still is largely loyal to Trump:

“Many unfairly do not provide the president with nearly enough credit,” he said.

YMMV. Still, good on his for such comments like:

He said he had read about and spoken to many U.S. citizens who were detained by ICE in Minnesota “due to the color of their skin,” including several law enforcement officers who had been pulled over by federal immigration agents on pretextual stops.

“Driving while Hispanic is not a crime,” he said. “Neither is driving while Asian.”

[Sarcastr0]

I don't love that he couldn't see what was going on till it came to this, but I'll take it.

[David Nieporent]

But don't worry, Mike Lindell is still running!

[Frank Drackman]

Go ahead and laugh Shithead, this is a State that erected Jesse "The Body" Ventura (who was actually better than the Milk Toast Repubiclown Norm Coleman, and the Mouth Breathing "Skip" Humphrey) Lindell built a Billion Dollar Company selling fucking Pillows (OK, and everything else now) what the Fuck has Tampon-Tim ever done except contribute to Global Warming? (which isn't happening, it's Rhetorical)

Frank

[myself]

Politicians are very good at only seeing things that support the party line right up until they leave politics or decide on a different strategy.

[Sarcastr0]

Sure, though the right's the ones who don't much care about the rights of people that aren't like them...until they have a lesbian daughter or something.

Meanwhile, the left care to a fault; they'll get into purity tests spirals about who isn't properly elevating the cause of the neuroatypical because they mentioned the watching the news or whatever.
And those people will be taken seriously by everyone else, and so everyone gets mad and nothing gets done.

[Estragon]

Same thing for MAGA, and perhaps some of you can answer: what is the endgame here? Inflict terror and chaos on Minnesota until they are cowed? What does that look like?

I see very-online Trumpists talking about the Insurrection Act. Let’s assume arguendo that this is the purpose of ICE in Minnesota— to provoke a reaction from the public that would justify invocation of the Act in the eyes of the Supremes. So the Act gets invoked. But then what? There just seems to be a lot of magical thinking going on within the Trumpist camp.

I do think there are some people in key positions of power making decisions while habitually on some serious drugs— the kind that Ronny Jackson got in trouble for. But that does account for everyone, including presumably the core group of commentators here who have been putting in overtime the last few weeks.

[Martinned]

Different individuals within the Regime will have different endgames in mind.

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2026/01/escalation-dominance-and-theory-of-mind

[TwelveInchPianist]

Linking to extremist websites? What's next, Stormfront?

[Bunny495]

" including presumably the core group of commentators here who have been putting in overtime the last few weeks."

It is easy to argue that both sides are working overtime. For the first time I do see a realistic chance of boots on the ground. What concerns me most is the laser like focus on a couple of shootings while ignoring the bigger picture. I have little doubt what history will remember will not have much of a focus on the shootings.

A couple of days ago I posted about the realistic possibility of Mexico stopping oil shipments to Cuba which would cause the Cuban government to fall (not that it needs much help). While my post was ignored I have little doubt from a historical view it would dwarf the shooting of two minor figures. I just posted about the GTO issued and how it is connected to the nationwide fraud investigation in particular and the one that found Waltz with his dick caught in his zipper. This fraud will also dwarf a couple of shootings. As for the endgame I can realistically see the a realignment of the democratic/liberal/farmer pols. When Waltz bowed out the best they could offer was someone who eats salad with a comb.

Point is even now the shootings are (as my niece would say) 'so last week'.
Trump has bigger fish to fry. Cuba downfall, Venezuela moving in a different direction, Ukraine and Russia talking, Iran seemingly in freefall, lower prices and inflation looking better.

Diving more into the boots on the ground I also posted that my initial questioning of Trump not using the Screaming Eagles but instead choosing the Arctic Angles has been resolved. To the Arctic Angles winter in the lower 48 is a joke, but more to the point they also have the capability collecting battlefield intel with electronics that make geofencing and cell tower dumps look like kiddie toys. There is real evidence of coordinated effort by state, local, and outside groups to identify, pinpoint, and harass ICE agents.

Cliff Note's version, the end game is to put an end to massive fraud laundering money to the benefit of Waltz, Frey, Ellison and uncover the source of outside money and local groups conspiring to obstruct legit ICE operations.

[Estragon]

That’s it? That’s the long term-goal? Uncover this conspiracy for which there is already “real evidence”?

What investigatory methods do you figure ICE and CBP are engaging in to uncover this conspiracy? Are they even the right people to conduct such an investigation? Weren’t there already a bunch of people at DOJ already working on the fraud angle? With all due respect, this doesn’t make a ton of sense, to me at least.

[Estragon]

And the outside money thing always comes up again and again. It’s almost as if conservatives can’t conceive of politics without money.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The end game is the end of the system of dual standards, I return to rule of law, edit end to the insurgency.

The horde of illegals who came in under Biden, waving their middle fingers in our faces, either get sent back or sent to someplace so nasty that theywant to go back.

This is a civilized country. We have rules, and they will be followed.

Much is Eisenhower sent troops into Little Rock Trump needs to send troops into Minneapolis. They are probably going to have to shoot at least 100 people before people realize that they are serious and will fire. At that point, it’ll be possible to round up all the illegals and remove them.

We then allow Democratic elections, what exclude the incumbent under that phrase the 14th amendment.

[Estragon]

“We then allow Democratic elections, what exclude the incumbent under that phrase the 14th amendment.”

Can you rephrase? This doesn’t make much sense to me.

[Estragon]

“We then allow”

Who is “we”? “Allow” implies permission. Who is permitting elections and could they decide not to?

“They are probably going to have to shoot at least 100 people before people realize that they are serious and will fire.”

This is what I mean when I talk about magical thinking. I would really ask you to question your assumptions here— it seems foolish in the extreme to think that you will be able to kill your way to this desired end state of yours.

[Josh R]

With Trump's approval on immigration cratering, the end game might be getting a beat down in the midterms if Trump doesn't change course (or the economy doesn't dramatically improve).

[Bunny495]

Pop Quiz time

Who said "its the economy stupid"?

[Josh R]

James Carville. And he is right so long as Americans aren't dying in wars or at home.

[Bunny495]

Americans died in "foreign wars" under every prez in my lifetime. The question is how many. Rule of thumb has been if the number of combat deaths exceed the number of fatalities in auto accidents it is time to take note. Two a month is not even a rounding error.

[Josh R]

I don't think the same rule applies to Americans being killed at home by federal agents.

[not guilty]

My facility with numbers is such that I can count all the way to 21 -- when I'm naked -- but it seems to me that Trump's tariffs are contributing to tanking the economy by raising prices for imported goods. If Trump succeeds in deporting millions of low wage workers, that will add to the coast of groceries, construction/remodeling, dining out, overnight lodging and other segments of the economy.

All of that may enhance my political party's fortunes, but I hate to see the economy go south in the process.

[Brett Bellmore]

I can see how somebody would anticipate tariffs contributing towards tanking the economy some time down the road, but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence at this point of the economy tanking.

[Life of Brian]

The flip side to this, of course, is that if ICE pulls out of Minnesota because the violent protesters have become too violent, the now-emboldened violent protesters will widen and redouble their efforts in other states to try to achieve the same result. I get that we likely disagree whether that's a bug or a feature.

[Estragon]

That doesn’t really answer my question.

[Life of Brian]

Your question was loaded with a lot of prejudicial language that didn't seem helpful.

There are lots of potential tactics for dealing with defiant children,* and I don't know which the administration will choose. But I strongly suspect giving in and walking away is not on the table.

* And that's being highly deferential that these are just overgrown kiddie clubs petulantly acting out rather than an organized insurgency. I think the jury's still out on that.

[Estragon]

What is the desired end state and how does ICE shooting people in the streets advance society towards that?

“Potential tactics”

Ed posits the desired end state can be achieved with around 100 more deaths at the hands of ICE. Do you also believe you can kill your way to the promised land (whatever that looks like— you haven’t said?)

[Bunny495]

I don't really see ICE doing things in numbers large enough to kill 100. The two incidents were really one off things. There will be a huge difference if the Arctic Angles arrive. They have the sound weapons used in Venezuela that will have the street walkers puking on themselves as the roll around in the streets. I have to wonder why no one wants to address why the local LEOs failed to respond to this. It almost seems like Frey is inviting boots on the ground by refusing to maintain order in the streets.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15497647/ICE-protestors-Minneapolis-Hilton-Alex-Pretti.html

[Estragon]

I don’t think anyone would dispute that this administration currently has dominance in terms of the instruments of violence. But that dominance must be deployed in service of a goal— a desired end state. Other than “street walkers puking” from sonic weapons— I mean something more long-term. Or is it as simple as that?

And even in this rather glib response there are some assumptions you are making that maybe you should examine a little further.

[TwelveInchPianist]

They have a weapon that only affects street walkers? And why would they do that to a bunch of poor gals just trying to earn a living?

[Life of Brian]

Again, prejudicial framing like "ICE shooting people in the streets" is unhelpful if you actually want to discuss this.

The desired end state is deportation of people illegally present in the country. This is a garden-variety lawful process that vigilante cowkids have decided to try to obstruct in increasingly physical and increasingly dangerous ways.

In places where local law enforcement helps keeps the vigilantes in check so that the garden-variety lawful deportation activities can proceed, I'm not aware of any flash-point outcomes. In places where local law enforcement turns a blind eye and lets the vigilantes impose as much chaos as they care to, they're fostering no-win situations and eventually things reach a head.

The feigned helplessness and victimhood gets old. Everyone involved has the free choice to let the feds do the work they're lawfully there to do, whilst they make their discontent known to their hearts content to people who actually have the ability to change laws and policies. Picking fights with the agents may generate feel-good video clips and the occasional martyr, but it doesn't--can't--generate the change they say they want.

[Estragon]

“Again, prejudicial framing like "ICE shooting people in the streets" is unhelpful if you actually want to discuss this”

What is prejudicial about what I said? It is factual. That you view such shootings as justified doesn’t make observing that they occurred prejudicial— does it?

[Life of Brian]

What is prejudicial about what I said? It is factual.

Framing by definition is the art of presenting factual information in a way to persuade the audience to reach your desired conclusion about it, so I don't really understand your question here.

[Randal]

By that definition, all framing is prejudicial. So complaining about it is pretty meaningless.

"Attempting to get your point across is unhelpful if you actually want to discuss this" is the sort of thing you say when you don't actually want to discuss this but rather just want to troll.

[Estragon]

“The desired end state is deportation of people illegally present in the country.”

I once again suggest questioning some assumptions inherent in what you have said. Is what we are seeing — arrest and detainment of people
not in this category for starters— even effective in this regard? The Hmong grandpa is an obvious example, but there are others.

Further up you’re almost able to admit it:

“eventually things reach a head”

ISTM if Steven Miller wanted this outcome, he might not be doing anything different. But even that idea is half-baked. So things come to a head. Then what?

[ducksalad]

We can't know what exactly Miller is thinking. And I believe he's miscalculating. But:

1. He thinks that in times of crisis people crave a heavy hand that restores order. That would be himself.

2. He thinks he can pin the disorder on the Democrats. That's the reason for constantly trying to tie together Somali welfare fraud, voters rolls, and the protests. He's trying to portray Minnesota as a little Venezuela, a criminal regime.

3. This is speculation, but Miller's fever dreams might go beyond discrediting and prosecuting state government officials to taking federal control of their elections, or at least the voting machines, on the basis that it's a corrupt government that can't be trusted. One he gets sign off on the general idea that he (via Trump) has that authority, he can extend the precedent elsewhere.

Note: I'm almost certain Trump himself isn't "in on" any sophisticated 3D chess plan. It appears he really, sincerely has a childish belief everyone should love him for creating the hottest country ever, and believes the problem is just some bad media coverage and fake polls confusing people.

[Estragon]

“One he gets sign off on the general idea that he (via Trump) has that authority, he can extend the precedent elsewhere.”

Right, I think that is a reasonable take on what Steve might be thinking. But even that plan has inherent a lot of assumptions that I really don’t think are warranted, or have even really been critically examined at all by the people assuming.

[Estragon]

“That would be himself.”

I think I see the problem here, too, although it doesn’t surprise me Steve overlooks it. He is one of the most viscerally vile people in public life today. Even his erstwhile allies have said it. How does he think this ends for him? Ruling indefinitely and dying in peace and comfort at an advanced age surrounded by family and legions of adoring fans?

[Estragon]

And Bovino too. Someone should send that guy a biography of Ernst Rohm.

[Life of Brian]

Is what we are seeing — arrest and detainment of people not in this category for starters— even effective in this regard? The Hmong grandpa is an obvious example, but there are others.

How many hundreds of thousands of actual illegal immigrants have been detained and deported in the course of generating the handful of edge cases where, in the course of a lawful operation, a few minutes or hours of detention of people ultimately determined not to be targets but generate weeks of braying headlines? I doubt any reasonable person demands 100% perfection of a process to deem it effective.

So things come to a head. Then what?

We're already there. To the extent not clear, "come to a head" paired with "flash point outcomes" in the prior sentence: unfortunate results we've seen in Le Resistance states and not in cooperative states.

So we're back to square 1: the (at best) defiant children have driven a stake in the ground asserting they're in charge, and the parents who are actually in charge need to disabuse them of that notion. To do otherwise for short-term peace will lead to long-term ruin.

Hopefully cooler heads in Minnesotan government will prevail, and they'll start actually trying to lower the temperature rather than fanning the flames. I'd imagine to some degree that depends on whether it's actually true that this is a wag-the-dog response to other Minnesotan news they'd rather not be in the headlines.

[Estragon]

“need to disabuse them of that notion”

Once again— there are some assumptions about how you would go about ensuring this outcome that don’t seem to have really been critically examined.

[Life of Brian]

OK; feel free to expand on that if you'd like. But for the moment I think I've had my fill of writing thoughtful, substantive responses to your stated concerns and you ignoring everything but a sentence fragment or two.

[Sarcastr0]

LoB's response rather looks like the punishment is the goal, and he's not interested in any offramps anytime soon.

[Life of Brian]

And not to be outdone, Sarc breezes in and displaces every single word I actually said with his own preferred narrative. Just another day in Trollville.

[Estragon]

Who is doing the disabusing? The bulk of ICE— already deployed— doesn’t seem to be enough. The military? The FBI?

Bunny assumes the “Arctic Angles” would be willing and eager to join in the “disabusing” and deploy sonic weapons on Minnesotans. Ed assumes that killing a hundred or more will “disabuse”…. but why?

Assume (there’s that word again) the disabusing goes exactly as planned— are you any closer to your stated goal? The twin cities are disabused and cowed. The citizens are scared to leave their homes, martial law imposed, the mayor jailed, ICE free to kick down doors with impunity. But then what? Do you assume other communities would react in the same way and be preemptively disabused? Why? Would Philly be disabused? Chicago? Portland? What happens when it comes time to vote and this is deeply unpopular— as it already is? Would you “allow” elections as Ed stated?

It’s just this tower of assuming.

[Estragon]

One further thing.

I realize you are extremely enamored with the “petulant children” analogy which is why you repeated it and attempt to shunt the discussion towards it. But it is actually quite revealing that this is the only way you can seem to conceptualize the motivations of people like Ms. Good, Mr. Pretti and the countless others out in the streets. Much like the dark muttering about outside money and Soros, there is just a complete failure to understand— or to attempt to understand— the motivations of people you are opposed to.

Which, as Umberto Eco elegantly pointed out long ago is one of the critical weaknesses of fascists: their inability to objectively assess the motivations and strengths of their enemies.

[Life of Brian]

So setting aside whatever that "Godwin lite" riff was at the end, most of what you said was just pulling in soundbites from other commenters. They can speak for themselves, but I'm happy to answer the one remaining question about something I myself had actually said:

Assume (there’s that word again) the disabusing goes exactly as planned— are you any closer to your stated goal?

Yes, of course when people stop trying to actively and violently obstruct the deportation of people illegally present in the country, by definition we're closer to actually being able to accomplish that legal and necessary work -- just as we are in the plethora of other cities where the residents haven't been egged on into taking the law into their own hands.

[Estragon]

Ok. Unwilling to think about some assumptions you are making. Fair enough. I think we’re done here.

[Life of Brian]

I've thought through the issues a great deal over the course of this one-and-a-half sided discussion, just apparently not in the way you believe I should (but seem manifestly unwilling to articulate yourself).

[Sarcastr0]

Guy who is on about how the side getting shot by the government are defiant children laments how the responses to him just don’t engage with his deep thinking.

Again, the salient detail is in all your rationalication you don’t have an off ramp. The beatings will continue until the defiance ends.

That is not how human psychology works. It’s also terrible and dehumanizing.

[Life of Brian]

The beatings will continue until the defiance ends.

The intellectually honest would, of course, start the story not in the middle but at the beginning: "The defiance will continue until ICE leaves."

Had the cowkids put one of your hallowed "off ramps" in place instead of just continuing to escalate things to the breaking point, we wouldn't be here in the first place.

[Sarcastr0]

Yeah man, punish those kids in MN. The shootings will go on forever if that’s what it takes!

Again, no off ramp.

You are telling on yourself, and what you want to happen.

[Life of Brian]

"Again, no off ramp." See above, and quit running away from your own construct. We're here because the vigilantes dug in, emboldened by their local officials.

And don't kid yourself: doing what it takes to regain control of legitimate federal operations will bring me no particular joy. But insurrection/anarchy is even worse of an outcome.

[Randal]

Congress will find an off-ramp if Trump doesn't. They don't want to all lose their seats.

Which makes me think Trump will find an off-ramp first. He doesn't want to go full lame-duck this early.

Sorry Brian, your implied fantasy of corporally punishing Minnesota into submission isn't how this will end.

[Sarcastr0]

Good prediction, it seems, Randal!

Miller and LoB hardest hit.

[Life of Brian]

As I said in this very thread: "Hopefully cooler heads in Minnesotan government will prevail, and they'll start actually trying to lower the temperature rather than fanning the flames."

Your reading incomprehension aside, this is excellent news.

[Randal]

It's not cooler heads in Minnesotan government. It's cooler heads in the GOP.

[Life of Brian]

You're sooooo tribal. Sounds like they made a deal, and one that doesn't shut down deportations.

[grb]

Life of Brian : "... deportation of people illegally present in the country"

Can we give this bullshit a rest? That was the narrative when Trump's war on American communities began. Then we began to regularly hear stories of people dragged off by goons after they showed for their regularly scheduled immigration hearing or appointment. And when it became harder for the thugs to make their quota of human flesh, those stories began to multiple. First dozens, then scores, now hundreds.

A man shows-up for what he thinks is his final green card appointment. He's disappeared into the gulag. A woman with final permission to live here speaks out against ICE. Masked goons break her car window and drag her out to throw into an unmarked van. We're told she had a DUI years earlier. Just a few days ago, a sheriff in Maine wondered why a recruit in their county corrections department was kidnapped:

"In this particular case, this is an individual that had permission to be working in the state of Maine. We vetted him," Cumberland County Sheriff Kevin Joyce said. "Every indication we found is that this was a squeaky-clean individual that really hadn't done anything at all."

Joyce said the recruit had left the academy and went to Texas for a hearing on his immigration status. "He took the extra step of risking his job to fly to Texas to take care of hearings and for some reason, he was picked up last night," the sheriff said.

"This opened the door for me based on the fact, I mean, this is an individual that was trying to do all the right things," he said, before adding his disgust that the masked ICE goons left the recruit's car running on the side of the road and completely unlocked:

"They left it right on the side of the street. Folks, that's bush league policing," Joyce said. "In my world, you wait for a wrecker. You wait for somebody to come pick it up that the individual wants, or you get permission to drive the vehicle into a public parking spot and you lock it up and you give the person their car keys. You don't leave their personal belongings unsecure along the streets of the city of Portland. It's not fair to the guy that owns the car. It's surely not fair to Portland police."

Trump's entire immigration stunt is bush league thuggery. By now a clear majority of U.S. citizens have heard enough evidence of its corruption and lawlessness. They've reached the only possible conclusion, feeling the same anger, disgust, and contempt as Cumberland County Sheriff Kevin Joyce.

https://www.wmtw.com/article/cumberland-county-sheriff-maine-ice-operation/70095060

[Michael P]

But that does account for everyone, including presumably the core group of commentators here who have been putting in overtime the last few weeks.

Your module for translating into English seems glitchy. Do you care to try again once you fix that?

[Estragon]

Yes, my mistake, it should read “But that does NOT account”

Ty.

[ducksalad]

There isn't a single coherent endgame, for the administration or for MAGA. The cabinet is a motley bunch of opportunists, the only thing they have in common is a willingness to flatter the boss. MAGA is really several different movements, the only thing they have in common is that they misinterpreted a senile man's "weave" as coded support for their various positions.

For ICE /Minnesota specifically, Miller thinks the path to power is creating a sense of crisis that would justify extraordinary measures, with himself as the power behind the throne. He's a student of past authoritarians, but he's misread the situation.

The real endgame is when Trump's presidency ends. If that happens prior to January 2029 it'll be something like the Death of Stalin, with Miller as Beria and Vance as Khrushchev. Figuratively speaking of course.

[Estragon]

Yes I think this goes a long way to explain what we seeing from the Administration. I’m going to put this is a gently as I can so as to not sidetrack the discussion- Trump seems disengaged. What could one say he really cares about at this point? The Nobel Prize. The ballroom. “Getting into heaven.”

This decision making vacuum has allowed various actors the freedom to pursue their own agendas. But as you point out some of THOSE people, like especially Steven Miller, seem to be engaging in a good deal of magical thinking— similar to but perhaps even to a greater degree than the commenters responding here today. There may be some echo chamber effect. There may also be drug induced grandiosity. But this is coming off as exceedingly half-baked from a long-term planning perspective.

[SRG2]

Miller as Beria is a good call.

I assume you saw the film - it was excellent, IMO.

[ducksalad]

Yes. It was impressive how they played it as a comedy but were still fairly accurate on the history.

[Ridgeway]

Who's gonna be Zhukov?

Noem is already doing a pretty good Malenkov.

[BrotherMovesOn]

I see Miller more like Vasily Stalin in the film.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

Vance as Khrushchev

Vance is no Steve Buscemi.

[BrotherMovesOn]

"Goddammit man, we have got to ACT!"

[Martinned]

I'm sure Lionsgate appointed Steve Mnuchin to its board because he has "more than 35 executive producer credits" and not because of any other reason...

[Martinned]

FYI, this journo is live-tweeting the court hearing that is currently taking place about Minnesota's 10th Amendment claim: https://bsky.app/profile/klasfeldreports.com/post/3mddiosiff52q

[Bunny495]

This case is a nothing burger.

Riddle me this Batman. What is the over/under it will be appealed more than once and stays will continue ad infinitum? Oh yea, forgot to mention Trump has a history of ignoring stuff he dislikes.

[Bunny495]

Why do idiots like Frey, Waltz, and Ellison seem to be doing everything they can to give Trump justification to put boots on the ground. As this article notes there was no response from Frey's local police even though this went on for an hour. It seems like the libtards in charge have shit for brains.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15497647/ICE-protestors-Minneapolis-Hilton-Alex-Pretti.html

[Michael P]

Their endgame seems to be violent revolution against the federal government, replacing it with a state of anarchy or similar Democrat rule.

[Frank Drackman]

You answered your own question

[LawTalkingGuy]

Two observations on Border Patrol immediately removing the Alex Pretti shooter from Minnesota and claiming they will never release his identity.

First: if the shooter ever receives criminal charges and goes to trial, this would merit a flight instruction. That is an instruction that instructs the jury that they may infer consciousness of guilt from the decision to leave the scene. Leaving the scene and jurisdiction is particularly difficult to square with self-defense or other legally justifiable homicide.

Second: I don't see a legal justification for keeping their identity secret forever, nor do I think this will be possible? Let's say there are never criminal charges. But won't there be a federal civil rights suit from the family? Even if its a John Doe complaint, won't the agent eventually have to be disclosed and deposed if it survives a motion to dismiss? Won't this information be subpoenaed by Congress eventually?

[Bunny495]

QI for civil stuff, 4A, 10A, and Graham for criminal stuff. Over/under for any of it happening is ridiculous.

[LawTalkingGuy]

This isn't really responsive to what I said.

[Bunny495]

"This isn't really responsive to what I said."

It responds to the chance it would go to trial which is no way and no how.

As for Congress I am still waiting for the order from Congress to release the Epstein files to have any traction.

[LawTalkingGuy]

"which is no way and no how."

Not necessarily. Even assuming Trump pardons him...that won't prevent state charges, (even if they are removed to federal court) and the next democratic administration will likely cooperate with a Minnesota criminal investigation.

Also QI is for 1983s, not Bivens actions (although similar principles are at play)

[TwelveInchPianist]

"Also QI is for 1983s, not Bivens actions (although similar principles are at play)"

It sounds like those similar principals have a similar name, "Qualified Immunity." See, e.g., Saucier v. Katz

Kind of a funny case title.

[not guilty]

A criminal prosecution for premeditated murder under Minnesota or for deprivation of civil rights under color of law under 18 U.S.C. § 242 where death results may be brought at any time.

And Minnesota's aiding and abetting statute, https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.05 , sweeps pretty broadly, so the ICE agents other than the shooter(s) may not be out of the woods. The Trump administration Keystone Cops will not be around forever to protect them.

[John F. Carr]

Flight instructions are disfavored in Minnesota. See discussion in State v. Mendoza, number A05-1084 (2006).
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/mn-supreme-court/1277093.html

If I were a trial judge with discretion, I would not give a flight instruction if the evidence suggested the defendant's employer reassigned him to a new workplace.

[LawTalkingGuy]

"if the evidence suggested the defendant's employer reassigned him to a new workplace."

Try using this logic on a delivery driver who hit someone and then went to their next delivery because their employer wanted them to.

[TwelveInchPianist]

OK. Still not seeing how this shows consciousness of guilt, though. The delivery driver might be guilty of some sort of leaving the scene offense not applicable there.

Maybe a better analogy would be a mailman who gets into an accident, reports it to the postal service, is instructed to continue with his route, and does so. Would he be entitled to a flight instruction?

[TwelveInchPianist]

"First: if the shooter ever receives criminal charges and goes to trial, this would merit a flight instruction."

He gets a flight instruction because the feds assigned him somewhere else? How does reporting to his assigned duty station indicate consciousness of guilt? Can you provide some support for that claim?

[LawTalkingGuy]

Can you think of an example where a person has successfully avoided a homicide prosecution because their boss reassigned them?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Not offhand. Can you think of someone who was given a flight instruction because their boss reassigned them?

[ducksalad]

LTG, the reassignment itself isn't all that suspicious once you take into account the mindset.

They aren't going to put him on paid suspension or desk duty or anything like that, at least not openly, because in their mindset that would be a "win" for the enemy. Their strategy is to always call it a perfect shoot and not concede even the possibility it could be otherwise. So he has to keep working. But they don't want hundreds of activists yelling stuff like "That's the one! Look at those eyebrows! I recognize the eyebrows".

Note that the reassignment could even be a lie, and it's not just about the shooter. The important thing for them is to reduce the number of people out looking for him. They might make mistakes or they might find him and ICE doesn't want either to happen.

[Bunny495]

Woops, my bad

[hobie]

Watched Tron : Ares last night. I have an affection for the Tron movies. There's really nothing else like them and they're very beautiful to look at.

Speaking of beautiful, the 53 year old ageless Jared Leto is the star in this one. Between Blade Runner 2049 (where he personified menace) and this role where he...I don't know...looks like an angel. Whatever 'it' is...Leto's got 'it'. Wish he had more roles.

[Sebastian Cremmington]

I liked Reznor’s soundtrack.

[ThePublius]

wrong place

[Mr. Bumble]

Hey gold bugs.
Gold broke $5000.00/oz over the weekend and silver is more than 1/2 way to an inflation adjusted high (around $200.00/oz).

[SRG2]

And the Hunts are saying, dammit, we were only 40 years away!

[M L]

Ilhan Omar. How does one go from zero to $40 million as a Congressman, without criminal corruption?

Someone lay out a realistic scenario.

I do understand "soft corruption" may be quite a widespread problem, and an area of activity that may not be against any laws.

[Bunny495]

No one would ever confuse me as a defender of Omar. The 40 million is not an easy valuation to defend. Pols are required to report their finances. Problem is the reports are way too general to be of any use. The biggest asset Omar reported was some LLC valued between 5-30 million. Problem in 2023, the firm was valued at less than $1,000 but reported income between $15,001 and $50,000. Critics find it highly unusual for a company’s valuation to skyrocket to $25 million while its reported income drops to zero. Even using the new math this does not pass the nine year old test. Same for the winery with an income of 15,000.

Omar is a bozo who probably is involved in getting money from the fraud in her district but she ain't worth 40 million

[ducksalad]

The part that's hard to believe isn't jump the valuation with no revenue. It happens to start-ups all the time and most of us are old enough to remember the dot.com boom/bust.

What's worthy of investigation is whether there was anything resembling a realistic business plan, and the possible motives of whoever dumped money into the company.

If I were out looking to buy some influence, I'd look for someone who actually had some. And if I were looking to get out of a fraud prosecution, I'd want to bribe someone who actually had authority to call it off. But who knows, I'm not an expert in bribery.

[David Nieporent]

Once more: the $40 million is fictional.

[Randal]

How's the search for Antifa going? Let's see...

https://tinfilmus.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Renee_Good_DHS_agent_perspective.jpg-1.webp

https://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/ICE-agents-1.jpg

[hobie]

I happen to be the president of Antifa. Prove me wrong.

[Frank Drackman]

There is no Antifa!!!!!!!!!!
Oh wait, if a bunch of Spooks running around like Chimpanzees in Hoodies is "Antifa" I stand corrected.
There IS an Antifa!!!!!!!

Frank

[LexAquilia]

haha yeah ANTIFA isn't a formal organization with a charter so IT DOESN'T EXIST AT ALL!!!!

hahah yeah, I'm president of MAGA. Prove me wrong.

----

Seriously dude. I saw your picture. You look like an adult male human. Why do you think like a 3rd grader on a school bus?

[Randal]

Wow, let us count the ways in which Lex is a stupid-head.

1. MAGA has a president, you may have heard of him. So no, you're not the president.

2. MAGA is a political slogan. It's trademarked. Guess who owns the trademarks? Hint: not you.

3. There are self-identified MAGA people all over the place, like on TV and at Trump rallies and occasional insurrections. Where are all the Antifas?

4. There's a Make America Great Again Inc., a Trump SuperPAC. It actually has distributed hundreds of millions of dollars to pro-MAGA forces. The thing you keep fantasizing about happing on the left is deeply ingrained on the right.

Open your eyes, Lex! You're living in a brainwash.

[Bunny495]

When the going gets weird the weird get going. Bet no one expected this.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/donald-trump-says-ice-agents-will-leave-minneapolis-as-he-appoints-new-chief/ar-AA1V0ZQU

[Frank Drackman]

Typical Fake News Bullshit, ICE ain't going anywhere.

"Mr Trump had previously suggested that immigration enforcement personnel would eventually depart the Minneapolis area, though he declined to specify when this might occur.
At some point we will leave," the president said, whilst praising the work of federal agents.

Yes, they "Will leave"
At some point, I'm guessing not anytime soon.

Frank "Mistah Pretti? he dead"

[Bunny495]

I have always consider msn.com a fake news site. what about you.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trump-says-ice-leave-minneapolis-105903228.html

What about yahoo.com

I tend to agree this may be a fake, but still it is being covered by plenty of sites.

[Brett Bellmore]

Probably so that they can fakely report that he had lied, when they're still there by the end of the week.

[ducksalad]

Looks like Walz pulled "a Mamdani" on Trump. Charmed him with a nice phone call.

But I agree with all of you this doesn't mean ICE will partially withdraw. It just means that Walz is the last person Trump happened to talk to.

[SRG2]

It just means that Walz is the last person Trump happened to talk to.

The British civil service had a term "seat cushion" for some politicians - they bore the imprint of the last arse who sat on them

[ducksalad]

Update, 36 minutes ago:

I just had a very good telephone conversation with Mayor Jacob Frey, of Minneapolis. Lots of progress is being made! Tom Homan will be meeting with him tomorrow in order to continue the discussion. Thank you for your attention to this matter! PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP

Miller must be in a back room gnashing his teeth in frustration.

[grb]

Brett Bellmore : "Probably so that they can fakely report that he had lied...."

Buncha points:

1. Bunny495's slackjaw amazement over not getting his goofy geofencing nothingburger or videogame-style military invasion of Minnesota is, well, amusing.

2. However Brett's attempt to create yet another conspiracy theory (only stupider than most) is plain laughable.

3. And the standard rightwing tic to declare any information they dislike as "fake news" is downright childish.

4. On the other hand, the accounts I'm seeing says Bovino and the Border Patrol are the ones getting the hook.

5. Which makes sense. Sources in ICE have started to vigorously complain about taking the blame for Bovino's stormtrooper thuggery. I can't say whether their complaint is true or not, but they claim the constant PR fiascos of law enforcement criminality and abuse are typically Border Patrol's doing, not them.

[Bunny495]

From what I am seeing there is less here than meets the eye. Trump did say ICE would leave, something no one would dispute. He did tell Waltz they would leave, something no one would dispute. As others have noted the timeline is missing. While Waltz claimed Trump agreed to an investigation into the shooting what Trump actually said was 'The President agreed that he would talk to his Department of Homeland Security about ensuring the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension is able to conduct an independent investigation, as would ordinarily be the case.'

[John F. Carr]

Now-famous murder defendant Karen Read filed a lawsuit against a group of people she considers responsible for her prosecution. Several defendants just filed an anti-SLAPP motion. They say their participation in the alleged conspiracy against her was limited to talking to police. That is "petitioning activity" under Massachusetts law. To get past an early motion to dismiss the plaintiff needs to produce evidence that the witnesses lied. Raising doubt was enough to be acquitted in the criminal case. To win a civil case takes more.

Read alleged that one or more of the defendants moved the dead guy's body in an attempt to frame her. Moving a body is outside the protection of the anti-SLAPP law. But, defendants say, the "one or more" allegation is not an allegation that any specific defendant did the act. They also say it is without a good-faith evidentiary basis and was added solely to plead around an anti-SLAPP motion.

Malicious prosecution cases in Massachusetts got a lot more difficult after the anti-SLAPP law was passed.

Read v. Proctor, https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/71963176/read-v-proctor/

Docket 37 is the memorandum in support of the special motion to dismiss.

[John F. Carr]

A couple stories about using bankruptcy to avoid costs of environmental cleanup.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2025/12/07/great-salt-lake-advocates-worry/
https://www.propublica.org/article/new-mexico-oil-orphan-wells-cleanup

The "Superfund" law tries to reduce public expenditures by making liability run with the land. I saw a real estate listing for a lot next to a gas station that came with a government-approved cleanup plan. But if the land is rendered essentially worthless by contamination there may be no subsequent owner to sue.

[John F. Carr]

I posted recently about bans on Indian-related sports team names surviving challenges because nobody had standing to sue.

The federal government announced last week:

Today, the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights (OCR) concluded its investigation into Connetquot Central School District (the District) in Long Island, New York. OCR found the District violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VI) by re-naming their traditional “Thunderbirds” mascot to the “T-Birds” solely because it originates from Native American symbolism.

https://www.ed.gov/about/news/press-release/us-department-of-education-finds-connetquot-central-school-district-violated-title-vi-complying-native-american-mascot-ban

If Title VI banned racism in the abstract the Department would be entitled to scalp Governor Hochul and her co-conspirators. But it is much narrower. It says no person shall be subject to discrimination on the grounds of race. Who is facing a barrier to education or athletics because some letters were dropped from the team's name?

(And conversely, who sees the name "Thunderbirds" and takes it as an anti-Indian slur? New York education officials are nuts. But being nuts is not actionable. We do not yet have a constitutional or statutory right to level-headed politicians.)

[ducksalad]

Payback abuse of discrimination law is still abuse of discrimination law.

[Bunny495]

As a proud graduate of FSU and a booster of the FSU Seminoles football team I have a question about standing. For as long as I can remember FSU has had a great relation with the Seminole (as recognized by the Federal government) tribe. With out getting too far out in the weeds this relationship includes scholarships, public recognition, and more. So does this eliminate any granting of standing without the support of the official Seminole tribe.

[Estragon]

Bovino and his Nazi overcoat shipped back to El Centro. Somewhere Ernst Rohm is smiling. Will we ever see him again? A great reminder for Trumpists that loyalty is always a one-way street with these people. Will we finally see justice for Cricket next?

[John F. Carr]

The First Circuit took 19 pages to decide that the Massachusetts crime of "open and gross lewdness and lascivious behavior" is not necessarily "inherently base, vile, or depraved" so as to be a crime of moral turpitude. And so an alien with two convictions under the statute is not deportable.

https://www.ca1.uscourts.gov/sites/ca1/files/opnfiles/24-2108P-01A.pdf

The analysis spent a long time on whether the defendant must have specific intent to cause shock and alarm. No. Intent to expose is subjective, the effect on others is objective. Without intent as to others the crime is not a crime of moral turpitude. All this based on Massachusetts case law interpreting the statute. Maybe some other state has an identical statute that courts have construed differently to be a crime of moral turpitude.

[Bunny495]

There are distinctions for crimes. There is always the example of involuntary manslaughter. While I am not sure about the details of this case I can still recall an incident in high school where a kid was depantsed, and wonder how he would be charged.

[ducksalad]

Homan flying to Minnesota after Trump had "very good" phone calls with Walz and Frey.

Is it possible this whole mess can be resolved for $50,000 in a brown paper bag?

[Michael P]

No, but it could have been very easily avoided if Minnesota and Minneapolis didn't aid and abet illegal immigrants and other felons by acting as sanctuary jurisdictions.

[Sarcastr0]

Amazing how many on this here supposedly libertarian affiliated blog still blame MN for not assisting the federal government in abusing it's population.

ICE revealed themselves to be murderous thugs, and still some demand compliance. Not hard to see what kind of 'police the libs and browns daddy' government they yearn for.

Polling shows this kind of fascist is a dying breed. Down to 39% of the population.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-immigration-approval-drops-record-low-reutersipsos-poll-finds-2026-01-26/

[JoeFromtheBronx]

To be fair, it is only "often" libertarian.

So, it is libertarian when Hawai'i wants to regulate property to reflect its history and tradition, but not libertarian when a nurse who takes care of vets is shot for practicing his 1A and 2A rights.

So, we have multiple posts about the 50th Anniversary of Buckley, on a blog run by someone with a 1A focus, but few pieces on how this Administration is threatening 1A values.

etc.

[Sarcastr0]

When VC moved to Reason, I remember Reason had the reputation as conservative but also eccentric and sometimes with unexpected takes because of it's ideological throughline.

Trump was already President.

This decade has really changed the ideological mix on the right, and the media landscape.

Over the long-term, as the boomers age out, this compacting and endless echoing angry propaganda farms will just assure more and more people slip through their fingers.

[David Nieporent]

Minnesota is not a sanctuary state. (Minneapolis is a sanctuary city.) But "We had to shoot people because it was too hard to do our job" is a terrible take.

[Bunny495]

As I posted above there is less here than meets the eye. The "very good" phone call was about Trump saying ICE would leave but did not say when and telling Waltz he would talk to his minions about an investigation. More than once libs have bashed Trump (and rightly so) about peace agreements Trump claimed were done when in fact there was still much to be finished.

[ducksalad]

Of course it could be less than meets the eye, and of course Trump just says stuff. No argument with you there.

To me the strongest evidence that it's at least something is sending in Homan and Bovino leaving the action zone. I have a low opinion of both men but it likely means Trump sees that something needs to change.

[Estragon]

It’s hard to fathom but someone in the White House actually has a keener political sense than the morons posting here nonstop for the last few days!

[Estragon]

Omg the bag man. The memes and protest signs have already written themselves.

FWIW Homan appears to be in the competing faction to Miller, Bovino, Lewandowski and Noem. The Susie’s maybe? In terms of long term achievement of whatever these Trumpists have in mind— to they extent they can be said to share any common long-term vison— I imagine Tom will be more effective (or at least less overtly depraved) than Bovino and company. His brown paper dirty laundry notwithstanding.

[LexAquilia]

When Homan was asked how to you deport people without breaking up families, he replied "deport the families too".

You're being misled. Again.

[Estragon]

“You're being misled”

By Trump? Say it ain’t so!!!!

[Estragon]

But— good reminder

[LexAquilia]

Homan is there because the optics shift from Bovino and his trenchcoat to Homan with Obama putting a medal over his head.

[Estragon]

Even voltage can bring himself to admit the coat is a bad look. Progress, people!

[JoeFromtheBronx]

"White House Wobbles, Distancing Trump From Initial Response to Minnesota Killing"

And while Ms. Leavitt would not contradict the two officials, she insisted to reporters that “nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America’s streets.”

Like parsing Pravda, you need to read between the lines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2026/01/26/us/politics/trump-minneapolis-nurse-shooting-video.html

Query if "people" includes immigrants.

[MarkJawz]

He's right. If leftist agitators would stop interfering with ICE because they don't support the detainment and deportation of illegals, people wouldn't be getting killed in the streets.

It's amazing to me that leftist white Americans side with illegal mestizos over their fellow people.

[JoeFromtheBronx]

I referenced Charles Boyer in comments regarding gaslighting.

His last film, coincidentally, also co-starred Ingrid Bergman. I have not seen A Matter of Time.

One amusing film, based on a book by the author of the Rescuers series [she also wrote many adult books], is Cluny Brown. It is a satire on British society with Jennifer Jones as Cluny Brown, a plumber's daughter who doesn't quite know her place.

[Bunny495]

Looks like we found out where ICE is moving to when they exit Frey's good city

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/exclusive-hegseth-approves-request-by-leaders-of-minneapolis-immigration-siege-for-use-of-military-base/ar-AA1V1Vtw

[Bunny495]

What is the over/under

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/risk-of-a-partial-government-shutdown-this-weekend-is-rising-here-s-why/ar-AA1V2c0u

[Bwaaah]

I'm watching a live feed of the protests in Minneapolis, and the protestors are facing off with a line mainly made up of Minneapolis police officers. They're protesting at another hotel tonight.

There's a new innovation in protesting. You're probably all familiar with the drumming...banging on drums and pots and pans and sticks, making all kinds of disruptive noise in order to force anybody in earshot to listen. ("Hey, man. Free speech.") They like to do it in rhythmic unison...it's like a participatory percussive musical experience, and a public nuisance, at the same time.

But here's the latest innovation: a drumming instrument that sounds like a gunshot. The musician is brilliant...he knows not to do it in unison with the group. He hits it intermittently, unpredictably, with long pauses in between (30 seconds to a couple of minutes). He fires off only one or two shots at a time. If your attuned to the sound of gunfire, in the middle of a large mob in disruptive contention with many police officers, it's really quite disturbing.

"They have a right." ™

Oh. And it's really dangerous too.

[Bwaaah]

Correction...not Minneapolis...Maple Grove, MN, slightly northwest of Minneapolis.

[Bwaaah]

Many millions of Americans describe the behaviors of these protestors as being reasonable and appropriate. They are uncompromisingly supportive of these activities.

There will be blood. This, they do not say. But they know.

This is their way.

[Estragon]

“There will be blood”

And then what? Cmon— take the logical next step. Examine some of your assumptions.

[Sarcastr0]

There has already been blood. You just don’t seem put out because fuck them libs.
They were asking for it though.

I think we all know what kind of politics that logic comes from.

[Estragon]

“If your attuned to the sound of gunfire, in the middle of a large mob”

Sorry, im confused. I thought you just said you were sitting around at home disaffectedly wanking?

[Estragon]

The guy who complains about people standing at a rock and roll concert has thoughts about percussion instruments. You couldn’t make it up if you tried!